edit

XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference

Minutes of 21 May 2008

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0040.html
Seen
Alessio Cartocci, Roland Merrick, Shane McCarron, Steven Pemberton, Toshihiko Yamakami
Regrets
Toshihiko Yamakami
Chair
Roland Merrick
Scribe
Steven Pemberton
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics
13:32:36 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-irc

13:32:53 <RolandMerrick> RolandMerrick has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0040.html

Roland Merrick: RolandMerrick has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0040.html

13:33:32 <RolandMerrick> Zakim, this will be XHTML2

Roland Merrick: Zakim, this will be XHTML2

13:33:32 <Zakim> ok, RolandMerrick; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, RolandMerrick; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes

13:34:23 <RolandMerrick> Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
13:35:03 <Roland> Chair: Roland
13:35:22 <Roland> rrsagent, make minutes

Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make minutes

13:35:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-minutes.html Roland

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-minutes.html Roland

13:35:36 <Roland> rrsagent, make log public

Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make log public

13:35:59 <Roland> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0040.html
13:38:16 <Roland> Regrets: Yam
13:38:25 <Roland> rrsagent, make minutes

Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make minutes

13:38:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-minutes.html Roland

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-minutes.html Roland

13:42:35 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started

13:42:42 <Zakim> +Roland

Zakim IRC Bot: +Roland

13:44:28 <alessio> Hi all! today I'm at home so I could connect on IRC too...

Alessio Cartocci: Hi all! today I'm at home so I could connect on IRC too...

13:48:08 <Steven> zakim, code?

Steven Pemberton: zakim, code?

13:48:08 <Zakim> the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Steven

13:48:42 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM

13:48:55 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven

13:49:14 <Zakim> +??P3

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3

13:49:25 <alessio> zakim, ??P3 is Alessio

Alessio Cartocci: zakim, ??P3 is Alessio

13:49:25 <Zakim> +Alessio; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Alessio; got it

13:53:49 <Steven> Scribe: Steven

(Scribe set to Steven Pemberton)

13:54:13 <Steven> Steven: I think Mark is travelling to the USA

Steven Pemberton: I think Mark is travelling to the USA

13:54:29 <Steven> Topic: Reviews

1. Reviews

13:54:43 <Steven> Steven: The XML Base review is at the bottom of my todo list at the moment

Steven Pemberton: The XML Base review is at the bottom of my todo list at the moment

13:54:48 <Steven> Topic: FtF

2. FtF

13:55:15 <Steven> Roland: The FtF will be a virtual one. I will send out details of times

Roland Merrick: The FtF will be a virtual one. I will send out details of times

13:55:23 <Steven> Topic: CURIEs

3. CURIEs

13:55:32 <Steven> Roland: Is in last call; any comments yet?

Roland Merrick: Is in last call; any comments yet?

13:56:38 <Steven> Steven: I got a message the RIF group plans to use CURIE-s in their next charter for what they call presentation syntax. This is not a XML based syntax at all""

Steven Pemberton: I got a message the RIF group plans to use CURIE-s in their next charter for what they call presentation syntax. This is not a XML based syntax at all""

13:57:23 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/RIF_Working_Group

http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/RIF_Working_Group

13:57:40 <Steven> Topic: Role

4. Role

13:57:48 <Steven> RolandL We have completed second last call

Roland Merrick: We have completed second last call

13:57:54 <Steven> s/L/:/
13:58:15 <Steven> Roland: Shane, you have proposed workding as a response to SVG?

Roland Merrick: Shane, you have proposed workding as a response to SVG?

13:58:18 <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0050.html

Roland Merrick: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0050.html

13:58:20 <Steven> Shane: Yes

Shane McCarron: Yes

13:59:20 <Steven> ... SVG want more roles that map to text like properties

... SVG want more roles that map to text like properties

13:59:35 <Steven> ... I propose we politely decline

... I propose we politely decline

13:59:51 <Steven> ... and let them put it in their space if they want it

... and let them put it in their space if they want it

14:00:04 <Steven> ... 'cos that's what CURIEs are for

... 'cos that's what CURIEs are for

14:00:18 <Steven> ... Mark says that there is an intention that we map elements into roles

... Mark says that there is an intention that we map elements into roles

14:00:45 <Steven> ... great discussion to have, but I don't think that needs to be part of our respnse

... great discussion to have, but I don't think that needs to be part of our respnse

14:01:11 <Steven> Roland: Agree

Roland Merrick: Agree

14:01:17 <Steven> Alessio: Yes

Alessio Cartocci: Yes

14:01:36 <Steven> Roland: We disagree that we should add more predefined roles into our space

Roland Merrick: We disagree that we should add more predefined roles into our space

14:01:58 <Steven> Steven: Sounds right. I agree with the CURIE comment

Steven Pemberton: Sounds right. I agree with the CURIE comment

14:02:22 <Steven> Shane: But they can talk to the WAI people if they want

Shane McCarron: But they can talk to the WAI people if they want

14:03:13 <Steven> ROland: Al asked where the normative definition is

Roland Merrick: Al asked where the normative definition is

14:03:18 <Steven> s/RO/Ro/
14:03:28 <Steven> Roland: I would prefer it to be in the vocab spec

Roland Merrick: I would prefer it to be in the vocab spec

14:03:54 <Steven> Steven: But is the vocab spec normative? I thought not

Steven Pemberton: But is the vocab spec normative? I thought not

14:04:01 <Steven> ROland: I would prefer it to be

Roland Merrick: I would prefer it to be

14:04:06 <Steven> s/RO/Ro/
14:05:00 <Steven> Roland: Everyone OK with SHane's response

Roland Merrick: Everyone OK with Shane's response

14:05:02 <Steven> Steven: Yes

Steven Pemberton: Yes

14:05:08 <Steven> s/SH/Sh/
14:05:27 <Steven> Shane: In section 3

Shane McCarron: In section 3

14:05:30 <ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-xhtml-role-20080407/#s_role_module_attributes

Shane McCarron: http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-xhtml-role-20080407/#s_role_module_attributes

14:05:59 <Steven> Shane: we list some values in our space

Shane McCarron: we list some values in our space

14:06:20 <Steven> ... SVG WG says "don't list some"

... SVG WG says "don't list some"

14:06:33 <Steven> ... either make it a complete list or make the section informative

... either make it a complete list or make the section informative

14:07:00 <Steven> Roland: Fair comment

Roland Merrick: Fair comment

14:07:02 <Steven> Shane: Agree

Shane McCarron: Agree

14:07:34 <Steven> Roland: We can just have some examples of it being used here

Roland Merrick: We can just have some examples of it being used here

14:07:51 <Steven> ... and could include CURIE properties as well

... and could include CURIE properties as well

14:07:58 <alessio> true

Alessio Cartocci: true

14:08:40 <Steven> Roland: We need to start the vocab doc as a rec track spec

Roland Merrick: We need to start the vocab doc as a rec track spec

14:11:12 <Steven> Steven: If we want to make it normative,then it has to be

Steven Pemberton: If we want to make it normative, then it has to be

14:11:24 <Steven> s/,t/, t/
14:12:19 <Steven> Steven: But if role refers to vocab, then they have to be in lockstep

Steven Pemberton: But if role refers to vocab, then they have to be in lockstep

14:12:36 <Steven> Shane: I disagree with you ROland

Shane McCarron: I disagree with you Roland

14:12:51 <Steven> ... I think that that would work, but that it is not necessary, and a bit heavy weight

... I think that that would work, but that it is not necessary, and a bit heavy weight

14:12:56 <Steven> s/RO/Ro/
14:13:26 <Steven> Shane: Role is an enabling technology, that uses CURIEs, and we say in XHTML that the default prefix points to the XHTML vocab space

Shane McCarron: Role is an enabling technology, that uses CURIEs, and we say in XHTML that the default prefix points to the XHTML vocab space

14:13:37 <Steven> ... for all XHTML CURIEs

... for all XHTML CURIEs

14:14:07 <Steven> ... it is fine if we remove values from teh vocab space from the role spec

... it is fine if we remove values from teh vocab space from the role spec

14:14:52 <Steven> ... if we remove tham and then make it dependent on another rec track spec, that is a mixture of our and WAI stuff, then I think it will unnecessarily impede role

... if we remove tham and then make it dependent on another rec track spec, that is a mixture of our and WAI stuff, then I think it will unnecessarily impede role

14:15:27 <Steven> Roland: So the scope of the role spec is an attribute that allows values to come from different places, and therefore the spec says nothing about those values

Roland Merrick: So the scope of the role spec is an attribute that allows values to come from different places, and therefore the spec says nothing about those values

14:15:41 <Steven> ... so we refer from our vocab space to role, but not vice versa

... so we refer from our vocab space to role, but not vice versa

14:15:54 <Steven> Steven: I agree

Steven Pemberton: I agree

14:16:05 <alessio> me too

Alessio Cartocci: me too

14:17:00 <Steven> Roland: So the role spec only illustrates the use of values, but doesn't define any

Roland Merrick: So the role spec only illustrates the use of values, but doesn't define any

14:17:13 <Steven> Steven: Sounds good

Steven Pemberton: Sounds good

14:17:38 <Steven> Shane: I think SVG WG would be happy with that too, but we need to send the response to be sure

Shane McCarron: I think SVG WG would be happy with that too, but we need to send the response to be sure

14:18:55 <Steven> ... I'll reword my response to reflect that

... I'll reword my response to reflect that

14:19:17 <Steven> Roland: Will you please reply to Al along those lines as well?

Roland Merrick: Will you please reply to Al along those lines as well?

14:19:19 <Steven> Shane: Sure

Shane McCarron: Sure

14:19:36 <Steven> ACTION: Shane to reply to Al about the relationship between Role and Vocab specs

ACTION: Shane to reply to Al about the relationship between Role and Vocab specs

14:19:52 <Steven> ACTION: SHane to reply to SVG on role

ACTION: Shane to reply to SVG on role

14:19:56 <Steven> s/SH/Sh/
14:20:05 <Steven> Shane: Then I think that we can transition to CR

Shane McCarron: Then I think that we can transition to CR

14:20:32 <Steven> ... we need to figure out the exit criteria for this and access

... we need to figure out the exit criteria for this and access

14:20:54 <Steven> ... and the relationship to M12N 1.1

... and the relationship to M12N 1.1

14:21:05 <Steven> ... Ithink Access has a dependency, but not role

... I think Access has a dependency, but not role

14:21:15 <Steven> s/Ithink/I think/
14:21:29 <Steven> Topic: M12N transition status

5. M12N transition status

14:21:53 <Steven> Roland: We have a transition call scheduled for 30th May

Roland Merrick: We have a transition call scheduled for 30th May

14:25:54 <Steven> Steven: So we need to decide about exit criteria, and to what extent we haven't already achieved them

Steven Pemberton: So we need to decide about exit criteria, and to what extent we haven't already achieved them

14:27:17 <ShaneM> The last CR had these:

Shane McCarron: The last CR had these:

14:27:17 <ShaneM>  W3C is looking for testimonials from users of this specification. Additionally, experience using all of the modules is being sought to create a coverage table of the use of each module. These two criteria are needed to advance this specification to  "Proposed Recommendation".

Shane McCarron: W3C is looking for testimonials from users of this specification. Additionally, experience using all of the modules is being sought to create a coverage table of the use of each module. These two criteria are needed to advance this specification to "Proposed Recommendation".

14:27:17 <ShaneM>

Shane McCarron:

14:27:17 <ShaneM> Major changes in this version include:

Shane McCarron: Major changes in this version include:

14:27:18 <ShaneM>

Shane McCarron:

14:27:20 <ShaneM>     * Re-integration of the Building document into this document

Shane McCarron: * Re-integration of the Building document into this document

14:27:22 <ShaneM>     * Incorporation of the Henry Thompson/Dan Connolly XML Namespace handling process with substantial additions by the Math and HTML working groups

Shane McCarron: * Incorporation of the Henry Thompson/Dan Connolly XML Namespace handling process with substantial additions by the Math and HTML working groups

14:27:25 <ShaneM>     * Complete worked examples including modules and miniature DTDs.

Shane McCarron: * Complete worked examples including modules and miniature DTDs.

14:27:27 <ShaneM>     * Minor restructuring of abstract module definitions, including the creation of a "style attribute module", a "name identification module" and a "target" module.

Shane McCarron: * Minor restructuring of abstract module definitions, including the creation of a "style attribute module", a "name identification module" and a "target" module.

14:27:30 <ShaneM>     * Tweaking of some of the module contents based on review comments

Shane McCarron: * Tweaking of some of the module contents based on review comments

14:30:30 <Steven> Shane: We should create a table of usage of the modules like we did for V1.0

Shane McCarron: We should create a table of usage of the modules like we did for V1.0

14:30:52 <Steven> Steven: Mark's language xh uses them

Steven Pemberton: Mark's language xh uses them

14:31:22 <Steven> Roland: Our first objective is to achieve CR

Roland Merrick: Our first objective is to achieve CR

14:31:35 <Steven> ..., if we achieve that then we can talk about whether we have already reached PR

..., if we achieve that then we can talk about whether we have already reached PR

14:35:03 <Steven> Steven: We also need to remind them about the history:

Steven Pemberton: We also need to remind them about the history:

14:35:15 <Steven> ... V1 was with DTDs and an empty appendix for schemas

... V1 was with DTDs and an empty appendix for schemas

14:35:37 <Steven> ... we produced the schemas independently, and wanted to merge the two specs as a PER, but got push back

... we produced the schemas independently, and wanted to merge the two specs as a PER, but got push back

14:35:45 <Steven> ... so were asked to renumber

... so were asked to renumber

14:36:11 <Steven> ... but really it is like the DOM with a binding for, say, javascript, and then we add a binding for, say, Python

... but really it is like the DOM with a binding for, say, javascript, and then we add a binding for, say, Python

14:36:15 <Steven> ... nothing has changed

... nothing has changed

14:36:25 <Steven> ... it really is the same version

... it really is the same version

14:36:59 <Steven> Roland: We'll do a checkpoint next Wednesday

Roland Merrick: We'll do a checkpoint next Wednesday

14:38:19 <Steven> Topic: Response to TAG on Media types

6. Response to TAG on Media types

14:38:36 <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0065.html

Roland Merrick: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0065.html

14:38:59 <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0067.html

Roland Merrick: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0067.html

14:40:17 <Steven> Shane: I made the case privately to Noah that we don't believe the media type needs changing

Shane McCarron: I made the case privately to Noah that we don't believe the media type needs changing

14:40:26 <Steven> ... which is consistent with your wording Steven

... which is consistent with your wording Steven

14:41:35 <Steven> Steven: My reply says that the XHTML spec says what you can do with it

Steven Pemberton: My reply says that the XHTML spec says what you can do with it

14:41:40 <Steven> ... not the media type

... not the media type

14:43:04 <Steven> Shane: I asked them personally what they think, since TIm believes it's OK, but I don't know what the TAG as a whole thinks

Shane McCarron: I asked them personally what they think, since TIm believes it's OK, but I don't know what the TAG as a whole thinks

14:43:41 <Steven> Steven: So do we send the message?

Steven Pemberton: So do we send the message?

14:44:17 <Steven> Shane: Since you are responding to the document, that section talks about HTML, I think we should tell them that it is about XHTML

Shane McCarron: Since you are responding to the document, that section talks about HTML, I think we should tell them that it is about XHTML

14:44:45 <Steven> ... if they say yes, but we want it to work for HTML too, that's fine, because that's not on opur charter

... if they say yes, but we want it to work for HTML too, that's fine, because that's not on our charter

14:44:51 <Steven> s/opur/our/
14:44:57 <Steven> ROland: I agree

Roland Merrick: I agree

14:45:03 <Steven> s/RO/Ro/
14:45:12 <alessio> +1

Alessio Cartocci: +1

14:45:17 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to send TAG response, with addition of XHTML comment

ACTION: Steven to send TAG response, with addition of XHTML comment

14:45:39 <Steven> Topic: Document cahracter set

7. Document character set

14:46:55 <Roland> s/cahracter/character/
14:47:14 <Steven> Shane: Could you Steven send references to the fact that all HTML and XML docs are in Unicode

Shane McCarron: Could you Steven send references to the fact that all HTML and XML docs are in Unicode

14:47:17 <Steven> Steven: Yes

Steven Pemberton: Yes

14:47:18 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM

14:47:26 <Zakim> -Roland

Zakim IRC Bot: -Roland

14:47:28 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven

14:47:29 <Zakim> -Alessio

Zakim IRC Bot: -Alessio

14:47:29 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended

14:47:32 <Zakim> Attendees were Roland, ShaneM, Steven, Alessio

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Roland, ShaneM, Steven, Alessio

14:47:35 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to send a reference to Unicode as document character set

ACTION: Steven to send a reference to Unicode as document character set

14:48:36 <Steven> Present+Tina

Present+Tina

14:48:44 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes

14:48:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

14:49:01 <alessio> about the <object> tests, do you want talk about it next week?

Alessio Cartocci: about the <object> tests, do you want talk about it next week?

14:49:06 <Steven> rrsagent, list actions

rrsagent, list actions

14:49:06 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-actions.rdf :

14:49:06 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane to reply to Al about the relationship between Role and Vocab specs [1]

ACTION: Shane to reply to Al about the relationship between Role and Vocab specs [1]

14:49:06 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-irc#T14-19-36

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-irc#T14-19-36

14:49:06 <RRSAgent> ACTION: SHane to reply to SVG on role [2]

ACTION: SHane to reply to SVG on role [2]

14:49:06 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-irc#T14-19-52

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-irc#T14-19-52

14:49:06 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steven to send TAG response, with addition of XHTML comment [3]

ACTION: Steven to send TAG response, with addition of XHTML comment [3]

14:49:06 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-irc#T14-45-17

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-irc#T14-45-17

14:49:06 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steven to send a reference to Unicode as document character set [4]

ACTION: Steven to send a reference to Unicode as document character set [4]

14:49:06 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-irc#T14-47-35

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-irc#T14-47-35

14:52:31 <alessio> maybe I'll implement the aria-live attribute on that

Alessio Cartocci: maybe I'll implement the aria-live attribute on that

16:13:26 <Steven> Bye zakim

(No events recorded for 80 minutes)

Bye zakim

16:13:35 <Steven> rrsagent, bye

rrsagent, bye

16:13:35 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-actions.rdf :

16:13:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane to reply to Al about the relationship between Role and Vocab specs [1]

ACTION: Shane to reply to Al about the relationship between Role and Vocab specs [1]

16:13:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-irc#T14-19-36

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-irc#T14-19-36

16:13:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: SHane to reply to SVG on role [2]

ACTION: SHane to reply to SVG on role [2]

16:13:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-irc#T14-19-52

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-irc#T14-19-52

16:13:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steven to send TAG response, with addition of XHTML comment [3]

ACTION: Steven to send TAG response, with addition of XHTML comment [3]

16:13:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-irc#T14-45-17

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-irc#T14-45-17

16:13:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steven to send a reference to Unicode as document character set [4]

ACTION: Steven to send a reference to Unicode as document character set [4]

16:13:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-irc#T14-47-35

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-irc#T14-47-35



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