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13:52:02 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-irc ←
13:54:01 <RolandMerrick> RolandMerrick has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Mar/0015.html
Roland Merrick: RolandMerrick has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Mar/0015.html ←
13:54:37 <RolandMerrick> Zakim, this will be XHTML2
Roland Merrick: Zakim, this will be XHTML2 ←
13:54:37 <Zakim> ok, RolandMerrick; I see IA_XHTML2()10:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, RolandMerrick; I see IA_XHTML2()10:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes ←
13:55:31 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()10:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()10:00AM has now started ←
13:55:38 <Zakim> +Roland
Zakim IRC Bot: +Roland ←
13:55:53 <Roland> zakim, list
Roland Merrick: zakim, list ←
13:55:53 <Zakim> I see IA_XHTML2()10:00AM, Team_W3M()8:00AM, WAI_ERTWG()9:30AM, INC_URW3()9:30AM active
Zakim IRC Bot: I see IA_XHTML2()10:00AM, Team_W3M()8:00AM, WAI_ERTWG()9:30AM, INC_URW3()9:30AM active ←
13:55:56 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are I18N_TS()9:00AM, SW_SWEO()10:00AM
Zakim IRC Bot: also scheduled at this time are I18N_TS()9:00AM, SW_SWEO()10:00AM ←
14:00:15 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregory_Rosmaita ←
14:01:55 <oedipus> scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
(Scribe set to Gregory Rosmaita)
14:02:00 <oedipus> scribeNick: oedipus
14:02:56 <Zakim> +ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←
14:03:07 <oedipus> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Mar/0015.html
14:03:15 <Roland> Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
14:03:28 <Roland> Chair: Roland
14:03:45 <Roland> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Mar/0015.html
14:04:27 <Steven_> zakim, dial steven-617
Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617 ←
14:04:27 <Zakim> ok, Steven_; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven_; the call is being made ←
14:04:29 <Zakim> +Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←
14:05:30 <oedipus> regrets: tina, allessio
Scribe problem: the name 'allessio' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami
14:05:57 <Zakim> +??P25
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P25 ←
14:06:06 <yamx> Zakim, ??P25 is yamx
Scribe problem: the name 'yamx' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'yamx' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown yamx: Zakim, ??P25 is yamx ←
14:06:06 <Zakim> +yamx; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +yamx; got it ←
14:06:50 <Steven_> rrsagent, here?
Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, here? ←
14:06:50 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-irc#T14-06-50
RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-irc#T14-06-50 ←
14:07:05 <Steven_> rrsagent,make log public
Steven Pemberton: rrsagent,make log public ←
14:07:43 <markbirbeck> zakim code?
Mark Birbeck: zakim code? ←
14:07:49 <Steven_> rrsagent, make minutes
Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, make minutes ←
14:07:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-minutes.html Steven_
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-minutes.html Steven_ ←
14:08:01 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?
Mark Birbeck: zakim, code? ←
14:08:01 <Zakim> the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck ←
14:08:26 <Zakim> +markbirbeck
Zakim IRC Bot: +markbirbeck ←
14:08:52 <Steven_> -> Previous http://www.w3.org/2008/03/05-xhtml-minutes.html
Steven Pemberton: -> Previous http://www.w3.org/2008/03/05-xhtml-minutes.html ←
14:10:01 <oedipus> TOPIC: Outstanding Reviews
14:10:13 <oedipus> CSS Namespace review submitted by StevenP
CSS Namespace review submitted by StevenP ←
14:10:26 <oedipus> TOPIC: Technical Plenary and AC Meetings Week, 20-24 October 2008
14:10:55 <oedipus> SP: discuss briefly -- traditionally taken second slot (thurs/fri) at tech plenary -- asking if have preference, i say no
Steven Pemberton: discuss briefly -- traditionally taken second slot (thurs/fri) at tech plenary -- asking if have preference, i say no ←
14:12:08 <oedipus> SP: need to find out which groups we clash with -- XForms, PF -- any other groups want to avoid scheduling clash
Steven Pemberton: need to find out which groups we clash with -- XForms, PF -- any other groups want to avoid scheduling clash ←
14:12:26 <oedipus> SP: don't care if mon/tues or thurs/fri as long as doesn't conflict with Forms and PF
Steven Pemberton: don't care if mon/tues or thurs/fri as long as doesn't conflict with Forms and PF ←
14:12:33 <oedipus> SP: tech plenary in nice
Steven Pemberton: tech plenary in nice ←
14:12:40 <oedipus> RM: send response along SP's lines?
Roland Merrick: send response along SP's lines? ←
14:12:42 <oedipus> GJR: +1
Gregory Rosmaita: +1 ←
14:13:17 <oedipus> ACTION Steven: attend to TPAC scheduling
ACTION Steven: attend to TPAC scheduling ←
14:13:27 <oedipus> TOPIC: CURIE transition to Last Call: status
14:13:45 <oedipus> SM: nothing from TAG -- pinged them again -- need to procede WITH their input, but if WG wants to can
Shane McCarron: nothing from TAG -- pinged them again -- need to procede WITH their input, but if WG wants to can ←
14:14:17 <oedipus> SP: can go to LC saying dealt with all issues we know of, if TAG doesn't reply, then proceed; if they don't may have to cycle back to LC
Steven Pemberton: can go to LC saying dealt with all issues we know of, if TAG doesn't reply, then proceed; if they don't may have to cycle back to LC ←
14:14:38 <oedipus> SM: what we want to avoid -- outstanding TAG response 2 weeks late -- keep pinging but no response
Shane McCarron: what we want to avoid -- outstanding TAG response 2 weeks late -- keep pinging but no response ←
14:14:58 <oedipus> SP: other people in TAG could be contacted (whisper in ear) -- can approach henry from another angle...
Steven Pemberton: other people in TAG could be contacted (whisper in ear) -- can approach henry from another angle... ←
14:15:05 <ShaneM> to be clear - lots of responses. but the summary of the responses is "hang on - we are working on it"
Shane McCarron: to be clear - lots of responses. but the summary of the responses is "hang on - we are working on it" ←
14:15:09 <oedipus> SP: suggestions?
Steven Pemberton: suggestions? ←
14:15:38 <oedipus> RM: dragging for quite a while -- hanging for more than a month -- give Ben a deadline -- need to procede by end of next week
Roland Merrick: dragging for quite a while -- hanging for more than a month -- give Ben a deadline -- need to procede by end of next week ←
14:16:00 <oedipus> SP: henry's online now -- should i ping him
Steven Pemberton: henry's online now -- should i ping him ←
14:16:06 <oedipus> SM: i did 10 minutes ago
Shane McCarron: i did 10 minutes ago ←
14:16:27 <oedipus> SP: specifically request earlier in week or put as preference?
Steven Pemberton: specifically request earlier in week or put as preference? ←
14:16:52 <oedipus> SM: don't want to impose, just preference
Shane McCarron: don't want to impose, just preference ←
14:17:03 <oedipus> RM: continue to prod henry
Roland Merrick: continue to prod henry ←
14:17:07 <oedipus> SP: have his attention now
Steven Pemberton: have his attention now ←
14:17:38 <oedipus> RM: other actions -- upload final CURIEs draft; Shane to add a non-normative schema implementation to CURIE spec
Roland Merrick: other actions -- upload final CURIEs draft; Shane to add a non-normative schema implementation to CURIE spec ←
14:17:51 <oedipus> SM: wanted to ask WG what are we trying to solve there
Shane McCarron: wanted to ask WG what are we trying to solve there ←
14:17:56 <oedipus> RM: worth talking about
Roland Merrick: worth talking about ←
14:18:16 <oedipus> RM: want schema as well as DTD --
Roland Merrick: want schema as well as DTD -- ←
14:18:35 <oedipus> SM: i had added data type to master data types definition module as part of M12n
Shane McCarron: i had added data type to master data types definition module as part of M12n ←
14:18:49 <Steven_> agenda+June FtF
Steven Pemberton: agenda+June FtF ←
14:19:00 <oedipus> SM: separate data type namespace -- made sense to put there b/c modularization
Shane McCarron: separate data type namespace -- made sense to put there b/c modularization ←
14:19:03 <Steven_> agenda+support of XHTML
Steven Pemberton: agenda+support of XHTML ←
14:19:05 <oedipus> SM: why have 2 modules
Shane McCarron: why have 2 modules ←
14:19:41 <oedipus> SM: didn't yet check in -- wanted to talk to group; not a "good, tight" definition -- placeholder right now -- complaints about "tightness" of schema defs, not sure how to make "tight"
Shane McCarron: didn't yet check in -- wanted to talk to group; not a "good, tight" definition -- placeholder right now -- complaints about "tightness" of schema defs, not sure how to make "tight" ←
14:19:53 <oedipus> SM: CURIEs just strings that might have a colon in them -- thoughts?
Shane McCarron: CURIEs just strings that might have a colon in them -- thoughts? ←
14:20:08 <oedipus> MB: checking my definition from work ages ago...
Mark Birbeck: checking my definition from work ages ago... ←
14:20:26 <oedipus> MB: can't locate, but did have a regular expression for this
Mark Birbeck: can't locate, but did have a regular expression for this ←
14:20:41 <oedipus> RM: how does it compare wity QName built-in type?
Roland Merrick: how does it compare wity QName built-in type? ←
14:21:01 <oedipus> MB: not built-in; 2) after colon doesn't have to be NC name
Mark Birbeck: not built-in; 2) after colon doesn't have to be NC name ←
14:21:08 <oedipus> SP: essentially anything that can be in a URI
Steven Pemberton: essentially anything that can be in a URI ←
14:21:27 <oedipus> SP: struggled to find more structure than that, but series of any chars that can be in URI -- don't know what's in prefix
Steven Pemberton: struggled to find more structure than that, but series of any chars that can be in URI -- don't know what's in prefix ←
14:21:36 <ShaneM> right now I have this:
Shane McCarron: right now I have this: ←
14:21:36 <ShaneM> <!-- CURIE -->
Shane McCarron: <!-- CURIE --> ←
14:21:36 <ShaneM> <xs:simpleType name="CURIE">
Shane McCarron: <xs:simpleType name="CURIE"> ←
14:21:36 <ShaneM> <xs:restriction base="xs:string"/>
Shane McCarron: <xs:restriction base="xs:string"/> ←
14:21:36 <ShaneM> </xs:simpleType>
Shane McCarron: </xs:simpleType> ←
14:21:37 <ShaneM> <xs:simpleType name="CURIEs">
Shane McCarron: <xs:simpleType name="CURIEs"> ←
14:21:39 <ShaneM> <xs:list itemType="xh11d:CURIE"/>
Shane McCarron: <xs:list itemType="xh11d:CURIE"/> ←
14:21:41 <ShaneM> </xs:simpleType>
Shane McCarron: </xs:simpleType> ←
14:21:46 <oedipus> RM: CURIEs or list of CURIEs or what?
Roland Merrick: CURIEs or list of CURIEs or what? ←
14:22:22 <oedipus> SM: pasted into IRC what i have -- that's what's there right now -- safe CURIE production, might put together 2 -- URI or CURIE data type
Shane McCarron: pasted into IRC what i have -- that's what's there right now -- safe CURIE production, might put together 2 -- URI or CURIE data type ←
14:22:23 <oedipus> MB: right
Mark Birbeck: right ←
14:22:39 <oedipus> SM: don't think anything sensible can say in regular expression that anyone would have confidence in
Shane McCarron: don't think anything sensible can say in regular expression that anyone would have confidence in ←
14:23:15 <oedipus> MB: way i did this was copy the productions for a relative URI -- even though difficult and allows anything, more correct to have that level of indirection, rather than us saying "only a string"
Mark Birbeck: way i did this was copy the productions for a relative URI -- even though difficult and allows anything, more correct to have that level of indirection, rather than us saying "only a string" ←
14:23:25 <oedipus> MB: do have regular expression that does this, have to locate
Mark Birbeck: do have regular expression that does this, have to locate ←
14:23:33 <oedipus> SM: why regular expression -- just a URI
Shane McCarron: why regular expression -- just a URI ←
14:23:40 <oedipus> SP: lexical space
Steven Pemberton: lexical space ←
14:23:46 <oedipus> SM: i believe lexical space same
Shane McCarron: i believe lexical space same ←
14:23:53 <oedipus> RM: no, prefix, colon, URI
Roland Merrick: no, prefix, colon, URI ←
14:23:58 <oedipus> SM: don't need prefix
Shane McCarron: don't need prefix ←
14:24:10 <oedipus> RM: optional prefix, colon, URI then
Roland Merrick: optional prefix, colon, URI then ←
14:24:19 <oedipus> SP: URI not a CURIE and a CURIE that isn't URI
Steven Pemberton: URI not a CURIE and a CURIE that isn't URI ←
14:24:33 <oedipus> RM: conceptually different -- mistake to call same thing
Roland Merrick: conceptually different -- mistake to call same thing ←
14:24:44 <oedipus> RM: any string is what i'm getting at
Roland Merrick: any string is what i'm getting at ←
14:24:48 <oedipus> SM: any URI?
Shane McCarron: any URI? ←
14:24:53 <oedipus> RM: say "relative URI"
Roland Merrick: say "relative URI" ←
14:25:05 <oedipus> RM: specifically refer to sub-part of URI expression -- iFragment
Roland Merrick: specifically refer to sub-part of URI expression -- iFragment ←
14:25:07 <oedipus> SM: right
Shane McCarron: right ←
14:25:38 <oedipus> RM: can be anything but that is conceptual rather than string literal -- can't use in schemas (x followed by y making y fundamental data type -- just doesn't exist)
Roland Merrick: can be anything but that is conceptual rather than string literal -- can't use in schemas (x followed by y making y fundamental data type -- just doesn't exist) ←
14:25:41 <oedipus> MB: assign a name
Mark Birbeck: assign a name ←
14:25:50 <oedipus> RM: create regular expression that maps to this
Roland Merrick: create regular expression that maps to this ←
14:25:58 <oedipus> MB: URI doesn't contain regular expression
Mark Birbeck: URI doesn't contain regular expression ←
14:26:08 <ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema
Shane McCarron: http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema ←
14:26:16 <oedipus> SM: have to relook at XML data type schema but son't think regular expression
Shane McCarron: have to relook at XML data type schema but son't think regular expression ←
14:26:46 <oedipus> MB: differences: 1) not built-in type -- built-in types don't need regular expression, but we do
Mark Birbeck: differences: 1) not built-in type -- built-in types don't need regular expression, but we do ←
14:27:14 <oedipus> RM: how validate in schema? validate that URI is a URI
Roland Merrick: how validate in schema? validate that URI is a URI ←
14:28:02 <oedipus> MB: discussion just morphed into "do we need to do this" -- yes, can write regular expression, but so broad it isn't completely useful -- making it any string not the correct solution -- need a regular expression, but need to be aware that anything can be in regular expression
Mark Birbeck: discussion just morphed into "do we need to do this" -- yes, can write regular expression, but so broad it isn't completely useful -- making it any string not the correct solution -- need a regular expression, but need to be aware that anything can be in regular expression ←
14:28:21 <oedipus> RM: restraint for CURIE as whole?
Roland Merrick: restraint for CURIE as whole? ←
14:28:27 <oedipus> MB: done in past -- have to locate
Mark Birbeck: done in past -- have to locate ←
14:28:53 <oedipus> SM: if MB has regular expression that works, ok with string -- M12n data types makes most sense
Shane McCarron: if MB has regular expression that works, ok with string -- M12n data types makes most sense ←
14:29:01 <oedipus> SM: M12n doesn't actually use it today
Shane McCarron: M12n doesn't actually use it today ←
14:29:19 <oedipus> SM: but we have produced modules that use it so M12n is right place (RDFa and Role need it)
Shane McCarron: but we have produced modules that use it so M12n is right place (RDFa and Role need it) ←
14:29:40 <oedipus> RM: document that schema in m12n spec
Roland Merrick: document that schema in m12n spec ←
14:29:42 <oedipus> SM: yes
Shane McCarron: yes ←
14:30:33 <oedipus> ACTION: MarkBirbeck - produce regular expression and URI/CURIE type
ACTION: MarkBirbeck - produce regular expression and URI/CURIE type ←
14:30:49 <oedipus> SM: RDFa has use for that -- use case TAG most afraid of
Shane McCarron: RDFa has use for that -- use case TAG most afraid of ←
14:31:06 <oedipus> SM: mixing CURIEs and URIs -- that's what they are nervous about
Shane McCarron: mixing CURIEs and URIs -- that's what they are nervous about ←
14:31:47 <oedipus> ACTION: ShaneM - document that "such types exist" in m12n in document; MarkB will produce actual definitions
ACTION: ShaneM - document that "such types exist" in m12n in document; MarkB will produce actual definitions ←
14:31:57 <oedipus> RM: anything else about CURIEs?
Roland Merrick: anything else about CURIEs? ←
14:32:49 <oedipus> RM: next wednesday, decide if want to procede even if don't hear back from TAG
Roland Merrick: next wednesday, decide if want to procede even if don't hear back from TAG ←
14:33:28 <oedipus> SP: 2 other agenda items -- 1) june face 2 face -- created blank face to face page on wiki
Steven Pemberton: 2 other agenda items -- 1) june face 2 face -- created blank face to face page on wiki ←
14:34:07 <oedipus> SP: contacted hotels and will get info back to WG this week
Shane McCarron: contacted hotels and will get info back to WG this week ←
14:34:07 <Roland> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/2008-06-Minneapolis-FtF
Roland Merrick: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/2008-06-Minneapolis-FtF ←
14:34:22 <oedipus> s/SP: contacted/SM: contacted
14:34:58 <oedipus> SP: 2) getting the message out -- year or 2 ago, some people complained that no one supporting XHTML and publishing denegrating statistics and so is a "failure"
Steven Pemberton: 2) getting the message out -- year or 2 ago, some people complained that no one supporting XHTML and publishing denegrating statistics and so is a "failure" ←
14:35:57 <oedipus> SP: this weekend, looked at top web sites -- went to alexa and found list of 100 most popular websites (on basis of bandwith) -- examined to see if use XHTML -- numbers far greater than that being claimed by XHTML opponents
Steven Pemberton: this weekend, looked at top web sites -- went to alexa and found list of 100 most popular websites (on basis of bandwith) -- examined to see if use XHTML -- numbers far greater than that being claimed by XHTML opponents ←
14:36:12 <oedipus> RM: part of confusion may be mime-type
Roland Merrick: part of confusion may be mime-type ←
14:37:04 <markbirbeck> q+
Mark Birbeck: q+ ←
14:37:08 <oedipus> SP: healthy proportion that did it completely right; also a reasonable proportion that did same for HTML4; then a number of pages where clearly XHTML (had all the attributes had quotes, closing slash and lower case) but not documented correctly -- remainder tag souop
Steven Pemberton: healthy proportion that did it completely right; also a reasonable proportion that did same for HTML4; then a number of pages where clearly XHTML (had all the attributes had quotes, closing slash and lower case) but not documented correctly -- remainder tag souop ←
14:37:24 <oedipus> RM: BBC web site -- XHTML Strict
Roland Merrick: BBC web site -- XHTML Strict ←
14:38:01 <oedipus> SP: should do analysis properly -- look at top 100, create article about strength of support 30% use correctly, 20-25% don't declare propertly
Steven Pemberton: should do analysis properly -- look at top 100, create article about strength of support 30% use correctly, 20-25% don't declare propertly ←
14:38:05 <oedipus> SP: where to publish
Steven Pemberton: where to publish ←
14:38:14 <oedipus> RM: can start putting into wiki
Roland Merrick: can start putting into wiki ←
14:38:23 <oedipus> SP: if do something like that, good to fanfare it
Steven Pemberton: if do something like that, good to fanfare it ←
14:38:32 <oedipus> RM: just make available via wiki as first step
Roland Merrick: just make available via wiki as first step ←
14:39:14 <oedipus> MB: excellent to get numbers, but since XHTML spec says should use XHTML mime-type/DTD, opponents say that is not XHTML
Mark Birbeck: excellent to get numbers, but since XHTML spec says should use XHTML mime-type/DTD, opponents say that is not XHTML ←
14:40:03 <oedipus> RM: bring all together -- with looser mime-type, we have a lot more XHTML than people are admitting; have to express that spec not so uptight or restrictive
Roland Merrick: bring all together -- with looser mime-type, we have a lot more XHTML than people are admitting; have to express that spec not so uptight or restrictive ←
14:42:11 <oedipus> MB: initial claim - XHTML broken, let's get more mileage out of HTML -- now XML serialization as XHTML5 -- going against initial claims, but in an end-around manner, letting fox into chicken house
Mark Birbeck: initial claim - XHTML broken, let's get more mileage out of HTML -- now XML serialization as XHTML5 -- going against initial claims, but in an end-around manner, letting fox into chicken house ←
14:42:56 <oedipus> MB: no extensibility, but one huge document that has to cater to not being XHTML; showing XHTML has traction would be useful
Mark Birbeck: no extensibility, but one huge document that has to cater to not being XHTML; showing XHTML has traction would be useful ←
14:43:56 <oedipus> RM: need to go more in direction of XHTML being rendered by HTML renderers; nothing in spec about it - XHTML renderers rare, given IE's share, should look at loosening mime type, but also means of XHTML in today's UAs being rendered by HTML engines
Roland Merrick: need to go more in direction of XHTML being rendered by HTML renderers; nothing in spec about it - XHTML renderers rare, given IE's share, should look at loosening mime type, but also means of XHTML in today's UAs being rendered by HTML engines ←
14:44:12 <oedipus> SP: thought agreed to change mime-type
Steven Pemberton: thought agreed to change mime-type ←
14:44:28 <oedipus> SM: discussed it but received massive objections -- haven't made change publicly
Shane McCarron: discussed it but received massive objections -- haven't made change publicly ←
14:44:40 <oedipus> SM: changed in XHTML 1.1 working draft and people went nuts
Shane McCarron: changed in XHTML 1.1 working draft and people went nuts ←
14:44:57 <oedipus> RM: also require an XML parser -- inhibits uptake of XHTML
Roland Merrick: also require an XML parser -- inhibits uptake of XHTML ←
14:45:03 <oedipus> SM: don't require XML parser
Shane McCarron: don't require XML parser ←
14:45:12 <oedipus> RM: XML application, though
Roland Merrick: XML application, though ←
14:45:56 <oedipus> SM: big arguements get from WHAT WG people is that XHTML doesn't work in wild -- if but embedded CDATA sections that redo DTD doesn't work in browserX
Shane McCarron: big arguements get from WHAT WG people is that XHTML doesn't work in wild -- if but embedded CDATA sections that redo DTD doesn't work in browserX ←
14:46:18 <oedipus> RM: if XML namespace used, won't work in current browser
Roland Merrick: if XML namespace used, won't work in current browser ←
14:46:41 <ShaneM> XHTML 1.0 Appendix A was intended to give guidance
Shane McCarron: XHTML 1.0 Appendix A was intended to give guidance ←
14:47:18 <oedipus> RM: confusion -- people don't know where W3C is going on this -- needs more thought and energy
Roland Merrick: confusion -- people don't know where W3C is going on this -- needs more thought and energy ←
14:47:22 <oedipus> SP: agree
Steven Pemberton: agree ←
14:47:49 <oedipus> MB: worthwile and ongoing work -- XHTML, XML and XHTML2 -- modularized and extensible benefits
Mark Birbeck: worthwile and ongoing work -- XHTML, XML and XHTML2 -- modularized and extensible benefits ←
14:48:15 <Steven_> "XHTML Documents which follow the guidelines set forth in Appendix C, "HTML Compatibility Guidelines" may be labeled with the Internet Media Type "text/html" [RFC2854], as they are compatible with most HTML browsers."
Steven Pemberton: "XHTML Documents which follow the guidelines set forth in Appendix C, "HTML Compatibility Guidelines" may be labeled with the Internet Media Type "text/html" [RFC2854], as they are compatible with most HTML browsers." ←
14:48:28 <oedipus> SM: core of misunderstanding is Appendix A from XHTML 1.0 -- did a bad job there -- if going to fix, start there -- add similar appendix with XHTML 1.1 as non-normative appendix
Shane McCarron: core of misunderstanding is Appendix C from XHTML 1.0 -- did a bad job there -- if going to fix, start there -- add similar appendix with XHTML 1.1 as non-normative appendix ←
14:48:34 <oedipus> [general agreement[
[general agreement[ ←
14:48:44 <Steven_> "Those documents, and any other document conforming to this specification, may also be labeled with the Internet Media Type "application/xhtml+xml" as defined in [RFC3236]. "
Steven Pemberton: "Those documents, and any other document conforming to this specification, may also be labeled with the Internet Media Type "application/xhtml+xml" as defined in [RFC3236]. " ←
14:50:16 <oedipus> Yam; last week japanese W3C member meetings; 1 main topic HTML5 -- surprised that more than 75% of HTML5 presentation that IE8 beta2 will support some HTML5 features; some HTML5 features supported by IE8 - no committment to support whole thing in FF;
Yam; last week japanese W3C member meetings; 1 main topic HTML5 -- surprised that more than 75% of HTML5 presentation that IE8 beta2 will support some HTML5 features; some HTML5 features supported by IE8 - no committment to support whole thing in FF; ←
14:50:36 <oedipus> RM: IE8 beta will improve things generally
Roland Merrick: IE8 beta will improve things generally ←
14:51:15 <oedipus> SP: do we think analysis worthwile?
Steven Pemberton: do we think analysis worthwile? ←
14:51:16 <oedipus> YES
YES ←
14:51:22 <oedipus> SP: put it somewhere?
Steven Pemberton: put it somewhere? ←
14:51:23 <oedipus> YES
YES ←
14:51:36 <oedipus> RM: put into wiki first and then sort and filter
Roland Merrick: put into wiki first and then sort and filter ←
14:51:41 <ShaneM> s/Appendix A/Appendix C/
14:52:00 <oedipus> SP: 30 of top 100 (majority) use XHTML
Steven Pemberton: 30 of top 100 (majority) use XHTML ←
14:52:07 <ShaneM> ACTION: Shane to migrate Appendix C to the draft XHTML 1.1 second edition
ACTION: Shane to migrate Appendix C to the draft XHTML 1.1 second edition ←
14:52:40 <oedipus> MB: what happens in diff geographic areas and diff languages -- browsers differ geogrphically -- content could be used in diff ways for markets -- know how to ID mobile
??: what happens in diff geographic areas and diff languages -- browsers differ geogrphically -- content could be used in diff ways for markets -- know how to ID mobile ←
14:52:58 <oedipus> RM: agenda review, redux -- M12n?
Roland Merrick: agenda review, redux -- M12n? ←
14:53:34 <oedipus> SP: collecting dates from w3c people -- communications people don't join call anymore -- hope by end of week will have range of dates from steve bratt -- then can select suitable date
Steven Pemberton: collecting dates from w3c people -- communications people don't join call anymore -- hope by end of week will have range of dates from steve bratt -- then can select suitable date ←
14:53:51 <oedipus> SP: Shane, do we have an editor's draft that disposes all of steve b's comments
Steven Pemberton: Shane, do we have an editor's draft that disposes all of steve b's comments ←
14:53:59 <oedipus> SM: don't remember
Shane McCarron: don't remember ←
14:54:19 <oedipus> SP: included pointers in request
Steven Pemberton: included pointers in request ←
14:54:26 <oedipus> SM: have to investigate
Shane McCarron: have to investigate ←
14:54:35 <oedipus> SP: please do, then can schedule call
Steven Pemberton: please do, then can schedule call ←
14:54:43 <oedipus> TOPIC: XHTML Basic 1.1
14:54:55 <oedipus> SP: waiting on me -- trying to finish implementation reports this week
Steven Pemberton: waiting on me -- trying to finish implementation reports this week ←
14:55:10 <oedipus> RM: skip XHTML 1.1 SE status for now
Roland Merrick: skip XHTML 1.1 SE status for now ←
14:55:20 <oedipus> RM: actions against RDFa syntax
Roland Merrick: actions against RDFa syntax ←
14:55:46 <oedipus> Steven to reply to TAG that we disagree. (in process)
Steven to reply to TAG that we disagree. (in process) ←
14:55:56 <oedipus> SM: added note that there is a risk that humans might perceivea CURIE as a URI
Shane McCarron: added note that there is a risk that humans might perceivea CURIE as a URI ←
14:56:31 <oedipus> RM: Role Module - running bit behind CURIEs -- have the implementation convention and Role Attribute module changes from WAI-PF -- finally received
Roland Merrick: Role Module - running bit behind CURIEs -- have the implementation convention and Role Attribute module changes from WAI-PF -- finally received ←
14:56:38 <oedipus> RM: any difficulties
Roland Merrick: any difficulties ←
14:57:41 <Steven> But can you spell it?
Steven Pemberton: But can you spell it? ←
14:57:48 <oedipus> complimentary
complimentary ←
14:58:16 <oedipus> RM: all wai roles into xhtml namespace so don't have to be prefix qualified
Roland Merrick: all wai roles into xhtml namespace so don't have to be prefix qualified ←
14:58:43 <Steven> That was my point
Steven Pemberton: That was my point ←
14:58:44 <oedipus> SM: can put PF's in our namespace -- left room for it in Vocabulary document
Shane McCarron: can put PF's in our namespace -- left room for it in Vocabulary document ←
14:58:49 <Steven> that is not how one spells it
Steven Pemberton: that is not how one spells it ←
14:58:57 <Steven> I think it is a bad choice for that reason
Steven Pemberton: I think it is a bad choice for that reason ←
14:59:00 <oedipus> RM: enough to procede?
Roland Merrick: enough to procede? ←
14:59:20 <markbirbeck> +1 to Steven
Mark Birbeck: +1 to Steven ←
15:00:51 <markbirbeck> s/MB: what happens in diff geographic/??: what happens in diff geographic/
15:01:30 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Mar/0014.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Mar/0014.html ←
15:01:45 <Steven> s/??/RM/
15:01:54 <Steven> I don't like complementary
Steven Pemberton: I don't like complementary ←
15:03:49 <Zakim> -ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←
15:04:13 <Zakim> -Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←
15:04:13 <markbirbeck> zakim, who is making noise?
Mark Birbeck: zakim, who is making noise? ←
15:04:14 <Zakim> -Roland
Zakim IRC Bot: -Roland ←
15:04:17 <Zakim> -markbirbeck
Zakim IRC Bot: -markbirbeck ←
15:04:19 <Zakim> -yamx
Scribe problem: the name 'yamx' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Zakim IRC Bot: -yamx ←
15:04:24 <Zakim> markbirbeck, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: yamx (92%), markbirbeck (96%)
Zakim IRC Bot: markbirbeck, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: yamx (92%), markbirbeck (96%) ←
15:05:13 <Roland> rrsagent, make minutes
Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make minutes ←
15:05:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-minutes.html Roland
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-minutes.html Roland ←
15:05:15 <oedipus> ACTION: ShaneM - incorporate WAI-PF verbiage to Role vocabulary
ACTION: ShaneM - incorporate WAI-PF verbiage to Role vocabulary ←
15:05:19 <Steven> 92%+96%! No wonder it was so loud!
Steven Pemberton: 92%+96%! No wonder it was so loud! ←
15:05:37 <Roland> yes please
Roland Merrick: yes please ←
15:05:43 <oedipus> no problem
no problem ←
15:06:22 <oedipus> GJR: by the way, PF is giving XHTML2 / Shane the final say on "complimentary" or "supplemental" or something better than "secondary" (deemed pejorative)
Gregory Rosmaita: by the way, PF is giving XHTML2 / Shane the final say on "complimentary" or "supplemental" or something better than "secondary" (deemed pejorative) ←
15:06:32 <oedipus> rrsagent, draft minutes
rrsagent, draft minutes ←
15:06:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
15:07:37 <oedipus> zakim, please part
zakim, please part ←
15:07:37 <Zakim> leaving. As of this point the attendees were Roland, Gregory_Rosmaita, ShaneM, Steven, yamx, markbirbeck
Zakim IRC Bot: leaving. As of this point the attendees were Roland, Gregory_Rosmaita, ShaneM, Steven, yamx, markbirbeck ←
15:07:41 <oedipus> rrsagent, draft minutes
rrsagent, draft minutes ←
15:07:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
15:08:13 <oedipus> present+ CSB_on_IRC
present+ CSB_on_IRC ←
15:08:15 <oedipus> rrsagent, draft minutes
rrsagent, draft minutes ←
15:08:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
15:09:10 <oedipus> rrsagent, please part
rrsagent, please part ←
15:09:10 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-actions.rdf :
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-actions.rdf : ←
15:09:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steven to attend to TPAC scheduling [1]
ACTION: Steven to attend to TPAC scheduling [1] ←
15:09:10 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-irc#T14-13-17
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-irc#T14-13-17 ←
15:09:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: MarkBirbeck - produce regular expression and URI/CURIE type [2]
ACTION: MarkBirbeck - produce regular expression and URI/CURIE type [2] ←
15:09:10 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-irc#T14-30-33
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-irc#T14-30-33 ←
15:09:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ShaneM - document that "such types exist" in m12n in document; MarkB will produce actual definitions [3]
ACTION: ShaneM - document that "such types exist" in m12n in document; MarkB will produce actual definitions [3] ←
15:09:10 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-irc#T14-31-47
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-irc#T14-31-47 ←
15:09:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane to migrate Appendix C to the draft XHTML 1.1 second edition [4]
ACTION: Shane to migrate Appendix C to the draft XHTML 1.1 second edition [4] ←
15:09:10 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-irc#T14-52-07
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-irc#T14-52-07 ←
15:09:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ShaneM - incorporate WAI-PF verbiage to Role vocabulary [5]
ACTION: ShaneM - incorporate WAI-PF verbiage to Role vocabulary [5] ←
15:09:10 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-irc#T15-05-15
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-xhtml-irc#T15-05-15 ←
Formatted by CommonScribe