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FtF XHTML2 WG, Cambridge, MA, USA

Minutes of 08 November 2007

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html#item01
Present
Steven Pemberton, Richard Schwerdtfeger, Roland Merrick, Unknown Raman
Chair
Roland Merrick
Scribe
Steven Pemberton
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics

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18:30:50 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-irc

18:31:00 <Steven> rrsagent, make log public

Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, make log public

18:34:21 <Steven> Scribe: Steven

(Scribe set to Steven Pemberton)

18:35:00 <Steven> Meeting: FtF XHTML2 WG, Cambridge, MA, USA
18:35:07 <Steven> Chair: Roland
18:35:32 <Steven> Present: Steven, Rich, Roland, Raman

Scribe problem: the name 'Raman' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami

18:35:48 <Steven> Topic: Agenda

1. Agenda

18:35:56 <Steven> rrsagent, pointer?

rrsagent, pointer?

18:35:56 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-irc#T18-35-56

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-irc#T18-35-56

18:36:04 <Steven> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-irc#T18-35-56
18:36:14 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes

18:36:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

18:39:18 <Tina> Good [insert suitable time of day here], everyone.

Scribe problem: the name 'Tina' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Tina' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Tina: Good [insert suitable time of day here], everyone.

18:39:25 <Steven> Present+Tina

Present+Tina

18:39:28 <Steven> Hi there Tina

Hi there Tina

18:39:34 <Steven> We are just starting

We are just starting

18:39:42 <Steven> Agenda topics:

Agenda topics:

18:39:47 <Steven> * Strategy

* Strategy

18:39:52 <Steven> * Meetings

* Meetings

18:39:55 <Steven> * Documents

* Documents

18:46:04 <Steven> Topic: Strategy

(No events recorded for 6 minutes)

2. Strategy

18:47:54 <Steven> Roland: The group is called XHTML2, and our primary delivery is XHTML2

Roland Merrick: The group is called XHTML2, and our primary delivery is XHTML2

18:48:00 <Steven> ... what are we trying to achieve?

... what are we trying to achieve?

18:48:14 <Steven> ... I want to suggest we focus on authoring, and not rendering

... I want to suggest we focus on authoring, and not rendering

18:48:30 <Steven> ... and look at a pipeline from authoring to rendering on lots of devices

... and look at a pipeline from authoring to rendering on lots of devices

18:48:48 <Steven> ... with personalization, device independence

... with personalization, device independence

18:48:51 <Steven> ... etc

... etc

18:49:05 <Steven> ... being applied from the authored materials to the user experience

... being applied from the authored materials to the user experience

18:50:37 <Steven> Steven: Now that we have the split and the chartering behind us, it gives us the opportunity now to focus on the h\igher-level stuff

Steven Pemberton: Now that we have the split and the chartering behind us, it gives us the opportunity now to focus on the h\igher-level stuff

18:50:48 <Steven> ... and HTML can still remain the assembly language of the web

... and HTML can still remain the assembly language of the web

18:50:57 <Steven> ... and we don't have to worry about it

... and we don't have to worry about it

18:51:07 <Steven> Raman: Like we did with XForms

Unknown Raman: Like we did with XForms

18:51:25 <Steven> Roland: We don't need to think of the page as the unit of a document either

Roland Merrick: We don't need to think of the page as the unit of a document either

18:51:31 <Steven> ... with mashup iedas in mind

... with mashup ideas in mind

18:52:05 <Steven> s/iedas/ideas/
18:53:31 <Tina> I believe we should focus on creating a language with which structure and semantic interpretation can be encoded - rendering ought be a non-topic in achieving this goal.

Scribe problem: the name 'Tina' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Tina' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Tina: I believe we should focus on creating a language with which structure and semantic interpretation can be encoded - rendering ought be a non-topic in achieving this goal.

18:53:36 <Steven> Raman: I would like to avoid SOAP and WSDL if possible in the solution space

Unknown Raman: I would like to avoid SOAP and WSDL if possible in the solution space

18:53:53 <Steven> I agree Tina

I agree Tina

18:54:10 <Steven> Raman: So let us focus on authoring, delivering clean stuff

Unknown Raman: So let us focus on authoring, delivering clean stuff

18:54:50 <Steven> Roland: If we consider our world supporting mashup styles, whatever our unit of work is, we can consider the broader ecosystem such as security

Roland Merrick: If we consider our world supporting mashup styles, whatever our unit of work is, we can consider the broader ecosystem such as security

18:55:41 <Steven> Roland: It allows us to focus on *intent*, and therefore we can ditch h1-h6 for example, and just use the context

Roland Merrick: It allows us to focus on *intent*, and therefore we can ditch h1-h6 for example, and just use the context

18:56:10 <Steven> ... and remove some of the clutter that is still in the XHTML2 spec for historical reasons

... and remove some of the clutter that is still in the XHTML2 spec for historical reasons

18:56:25 <Steven> Steven: Sounds excellent

Steven Pemberton: Sounds excellent

18:56:35 <Steven> Roland: But we are still talking about compound documents

Roland Merrick: But we are still talking about compound documents

18:56:45 <Steven> ... if we need mathml, svg, it is still composable

... if we need mathml, svg, it is still composable

18:57:25 <Steven> ... and one other thing, I would like us to try and deal with the namespace ugliness

... and one other thing, I would like us to try and deal with the namespace ugliness

18:57:56 <Steven> Raman: Given that XML Schema doesn't define the root element, we could actually define some new root elements

Unknown Raman: Given that XML Schema doesn't define the root element, we could actually define some new root elements

18:58:11 <Steven> ... such as <web>

... such as <web>

18:58:21 <Steven> ... we can avoid XML Schema

... we can avoid XML Schema

18:58:28 <Steven> ... we can alias names where needed

... we can alias names where needed

18:58:42 <Steven> ... to make authoring easier

... to make authoring easier

18:59:00 <Steven> ROland: THis is a distinct subject in its own right

Roland Merrick: This is a distinct subject in its own right

18:59:06 <Steven> s/RO/Ro/
18:59:11 <Steven> s/TH/Th/
18:59:35 <Steven> Raman: We need to protect the author from the ugliness

Unknown Raman: We need to protect the author from the ugliness

19:00:13 <Steven> Rich: I was talking with Dave Raggett about components

Richard Schwerdtfeger: I was talking with Dave Raggett about components

19:00:24 <Steven> Roland: We need to talk about levels of abstraction

Roland Merrick: We need to talk about levels of abstraction

19:02:00 <Steven> Steven: I think we need to consider XBL at some level as part of the infrastructure for XHTML2

Steven Pemberton: I think we need to consider XBL at some level as part of the infrastructure for XHTML2

19:02:34 <Steven> Welcome Shane

Welcome Shane

19:02:38 <Steven> Present+Shane

Present+Shane

19:02:54 <Steven> skype available if you want SHane

skype available if you want SHane

19:02:59 <Steven> rrsagent, pointer?

rrsagent, pointer?

19:02:59 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-irc#T19-02-59

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-irc#T19-02-59

19:03:17 <Steven> ok

ok

19:04:04 <Steven> Raman: If we do the authoring layer cleaner, then we can later use XBLn to implement

Unknown Raman: If we do the authoring layer cleaner, then we can later use XBLn to implement

19:05:19 <Steven> Rich: Can you still render to the web?

Richard Schwerdtfeger: Can you still render to the web?

19:05:43 <Steven> Steven: Yes, in fact ebay.co.uk are already soing this. There are at least two companies using XHTML2 to adapt to devices

Steven Pemberton: Yes, in fact ebay.co.uk are already soing this. There are at least two companies using XHTML2 to adapt to devices

19:07:00 <Steven> Rich: And can we add time?

Richard Schwerdtfeger: And can we add time?

19:08:42 <Steven> Steven: I went to a meeting with SYMM this week, and they demo'd a page with XForms and SMIL working together with the Forms driving the SMIL presentation

Steven Pemberton: I went to a meeting with SYMM this week, and they demo'd a page with XForms and SMIL working together with the Forms driving the SMIL presentation

19:08:51 <Steven> ... that's the advantage of the W3C architecture

... that's the advantage of the W3C architecture

19:09:18 <Steven> ... SYMM are the domain experts in time, and we can use thier stuff with ours

... SYMM are the domain experts in time, and we can use thier stuff with ours

19:09:29 <Steven> Rich: THis makes our stuff much more useful

Richard Schwerdtfeger: This makes our stuff much more useful

19:09:37 <Steven> ... because it makes it much easier to write to

... because it makes it much easier to write to

19:09:41 <Steven> s/TH?Th/

s/TH?Th/ (warning: replacement failed)

19:10:07 <Steven> s/TH/Th/
19:11:27 <Steven> Steven: Mark Birbeck has recently been suggesting making an XHTML version of XBL, with xhtml as the container

Steven Pemberton: Mark Birbeck has recently been suggesting making an XHTML version of XBL, with xhtml as the container

19:11:36 <Steven> Raman: Then we could use XPath selectors

Unknown Raman: Then we could use XPath selectors

19:11:51 <Steven> Steven: Which fits better into our architecture, since we use XPath already

Steven Pemberton: Which fits better into our architecture, since we use XPath already

19:17:13 <Steven> Roland: So we are going to get over our bipolar disorder

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Roland Merrick: So we are going to get over our bipolar disorder

19:17:48 <Steven> Steven: Well we have been trying to make everyone happy in a bimodal world

Steven Pemberton: Well we have been trying to make everyone happy in a bimodal world

19:17:59 <Steven> ... and you end up making everyone unhappy

... and you end up making everyone unhappy

19:18:16 <Steven> ... now we can concentrate on being clean

... now we can concentrate on being clean

19:18:47 <Steven> Roland: We need a technical strategy, but also a communication strategy

Roland Merrick: We need a technical strategy, but also a communication strategy

19:19:40 <Steven> Rich: Change naming?

Richard Schwerdtfeger: Change naming?

19:19:45 <Steven> ROland: Maybe in time

Roland Merrick: Maybe in time

19:19:49 <Steven> s/RO/Ro/
19:20:36 <Steven> Rich: We need to talk to companies to ask what they need

Richard Schwerdtfeger: We need to talk to companies to ask what they need

19:20:53 <Steven> Raman: We must avoid making it too big

Unknown Raman: We must avoid making it too big

19:21:09 <Steven> ... talk 1-1 with them is fine though

... talk 1-1 with them is fine though

19:21:41 <ShaneM> are there people who think that the current XHTML 2 strategy is NOT sufficient?  XForms + RDFa + cleaner, more consistent markup?

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Unknown ShaneM: are there people who think that the current XHTML 2 strategy is NOT sufficient? XForms + RDFa + cleaner, more consistent markup?

19:22:09 <ShaneM> as far as I am concerned, XHTML 2 in its current form is ready to go.

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Unknown ShaneM: as far as I am concerned, XHTML 2 in its current form is ready to go.

19:22:28 <Steven> I think we can publish

I think we can publish

19:22:39 <Tina> We must also be careful regarding talking to companies. Listening to their ideas, certainly, but not to include willy-nilly whatever they might desire.

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Unknown Tina: We must also be careful regarding talking to companies. Listening to their ideas, certainly, but not to include willy-nilly whatever they might desire.

19:22:43 <Steven> but we are discussing cleaning it up even more than it is

but we are discussing cleaning it up even more than it is

19:22:54 <Steven> +1 on that Tina

+1 on that Tina

19:22:56 <ShaneM> okay.  I ahve no problem with that.

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Unknown ShaneM: okay. I ahve no problem with that.

19:23:11 <ShaneM> sorry I missed the earlier discussion.  my week is pretty messed up

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Unknown ShaneM: sorry I missed the earlier discussion. my week is pretty messed up

19:23:26 <Steven> We are going to talk about publishing strategies later

We are going to talk about publishing strategies later

19:24:30 <Tina> Will we include name-concepts in that discussion? It really is needed.

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Unknown Tina: Will we include name-concepts in that discussion? It really is needed.

19:24:41 <Steven> Rich: Why did EBay go with this?

Richard Schwerdtfeger: Why did EBay go with this?

19:24:49 <Steven> Roland: SIngle authoring

Roland Merrick: Single authoring

19:24:54 <Steven> s/SI/Si/
19:25:39 <Steven> Steven: Time magazine use XHTML2 as well for similar reasons

Steven Pemberton: Time magazine use XHTML2 as well for similar reasons

19:26:04 <Steven> ... they have one central format that they can extract the information from to deliver in as many other forms as they like

... they have one central format that they can extract the information from to deliver in as many other forms as they like

19:28:20 <Steven> Raman: Let's take some use cases, and look to see if anyone thought we needed to add anything, but also what we can now safely take out

Unknown Raman: Let's take some use cases, and look to see if anyone thought we needed to add anything, but also what we can now safely take out

19:28:46 <Steven> Rich: There is also Dita

Richard Schwerdtfeger: There is also Dita

19:28:48 <ShaneM> lots of people have asked for hr back

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Unknown ShaneM: lots of people have asked for hr back

19:28:53 <Steven> Roland: A publishing format

Roland Merrick: A publishing format

19:29:01 <ShaneM> and br, fwiw.

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Unknown ShaneM: and br, fwiw.

19:29:40 <Steven> Name concepts Tina?

Name concepts Tina?

19:32:19 <Steven> Roland: There are two directions, more redical, and less radical.

Roland Merrick: There are two directions, more radical, and less radical.

19:32:45 <Steven> ... The less radical is XHTML 1,2, which is the combination of what we have now,

... The less radical is XHTML 1,2, which is the combination of what we have now,

19:32:52 <Steven> ... allowing XForms in 1.1 for instance

... allowing XForms in 1.1 for instance

19:32:59 <Steven> ... rdfa, role etc

... rdfa, role etc

19:33:10 <Steven> s/redical/radical
19:33:46 <Steven> Rich: I'd like to show these slides on Dita (which is being standardised by OASIS)

Richard Schwerdtfeger: I'd like to show these slides on Dita (which is being standardised by OASIS)

19:33:58 <Steven> [no URL I'm afraid, sorry people off line]

[no URL I'm afraid, sorry people off line]

19:34:05 <Roland_> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=dita

Roland Merrick: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=dita

19:34:31 <Steven> Rich: They have topic maps in the language

Richard Schwerdtfeger: They have topic maps in the language

19:35:16 <Steven> Raman: We need to keep our focus sharp, so we shouldn't add topic maps, but let people import them if they want

Unknown Raman: We need to keep our focus sharp, so we shouldn't add topic maps, but let people import them if they want

19:36:13 <Steven> Steven: But looking at this slide, I see something that you can do with RDFa

Steven Pemberton: But looking at this slide, I see something that you can do with RDFa

19:36:20 <Rich> Topics:

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Unknown Topics: [ Scribe Assist by Richard Schwerdtfeger ]

19:36:20 <Rich> <topic id=abc>	<title>My topic</title>	<body><p>And so on</p></body></topic>

Richard Schwerdtfeger: <topic id=abc> <title>My topic</title> <body><p>And so on</p></body> </topic>

19:36:20 <Rich> Maps:

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Unknown Maps: [ Scribe Assist by Richard Schwerdtfeger ]

19:36:20 <Rich> <map id=xyz>	<topicref href=abc.dita#abc>		<topicref href=def.dita#def/>	</topicref></map>

Richard Schwerdtfeger: <map id=xyz> <topicref href=abc.dita#abc> <topicref href=def.dita#def/> </topicref> </map>

19:36:20 <Rich> Specialization to create new types of topics and maps:

Richard Schwerdtfeger: Specialization to create new types of topics and maps:

19:36:21 <Rich> <topic> ? <task>

Richard Schwerdtfeger: <topic> ? <task>

19:36:23 <Rich> <map> ? <bookmap>

Richard Schwerdtfeger: <map> ? <bookmap>

19:36:25 <Rich> Defaulted class attribute maps specialized elements to ancestor ones:

Richard Schwerdtfeger: Defaulted class attribute maps specialized elements to ancestor ones:

19:36:27 <Rich> <context class=- topic/section task/context>Heres why</context

Richard Schwerdtfeger: <context class=- topic/section task/context>Heres why</context

19:36:40 <Steven> ... a span with rel="topicref" and the href

... a span with rel="topicref" and the href

19:36:49 <Steven> ... done deal, that's the glory of RDFa

... done deal, that's the glory of RDFa

19:37:35 <Steven> Present+Oedipus

Present+Oedipus

19:37:38 <Steven> Welcome oedipus

Welcome oedipus

19:37:49 <oedipus> just got your invitation -- thanks!

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Unknown oedipus: just got your invitation -- thanks!

19:37:59 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes

19:37:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

19:38:05 <oedipus> thanks

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Unknown oedipus: thanks

19:38:08 <Steven> you might want to see the minutes to catch up

you might want to see the minutes to catch up

19:38:38 <Tina> Steven: yes. At the moment there exist confusion as to the *name* of the thing - aka XHTML 2. Sorry I'm late.

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Steven Pemberton: yes. At the moment there exist confusion as to the *name* of the thing - aka XHTML 2. Sorry I'm late. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Tina ]

19:38:45 <oedipus> that's what i'm doing

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Unknown oedipus: that's what i'm doing

19:39:08 <Steven> Yes Tina, that is a future discussion, but we're leaving it as-is for the time being

Yes Tina, that is a future discussion, but we're leaving it as-is for the time being

19:39:37 <Tina> That's fine, as long as the discussion is had. The way it is going now will lead to some chaos, if earlier experiences is any indication.

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Unknown Tina: That's fine, as long as the discussion is had. The way it is going now will lead to some chaos, if earlier experiences is any indication.

19:41:00 <Steven> [Rich's slides even mention RDFa as a potential aplicaiton]

[Rich's slides even mention RDFa as a potential application]

19:41:20 <Steven> s/aplicaiton/application
19:41:22 <Steven> lol

lol

19:41:26 <Steven> Welcome Alessio!

Welcome Alessio!

19:41:30 <Steven> Present+Alessio

Present+Alessio

19:41:38 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes

19:41:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

19:41:49 <oedipus> shane, reading minutes shouldn't the horizontality or verticality of a separator be a styling issue / controlled by stylesheets

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Unknown oedipus: shane, reading minutes shouldn't the horizontality or verticality of a separator be a styling issue / controlled by stylesheets

19:42:01 <oedipus> no need to bring back HR

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Unknown oedipus: no need to bring back HR

19:42:11 <alessio> hi all, I'm on a train :)

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Unknown alessio: hi all, I'm on a train :)

19:42:12 <alessio> so connection could be not stable

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Unknown alessio: so connection could be not stable

19:42:43 <Steven> ok

ok

19:43:15 <ShaneM> oedipus: of coruse it should.  people asked about other extensions.  Just playing along.

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Unknown oedipus: of coruse it should. people asked about other extensions. Just playing along. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ShaneM ]

19:44:58 <oedipus> RDFa is very attractive to a few of us in PF (Protocols & Formats), not just RichS

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Unknown oedipus: RDFa is very attractive to a few of us in PF (Protocols & Formats), not just RichS

19:45:07 <Steven> :-)

:-)

19:45:27 <Steven> It got some good comments yesterday at the TP as well

It got some good comments yesterday at the TP as well

19:45:37 <ShaneM> hell, I even have uses for it.

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Unknown ShaneM: hell, I even have uses for it.

19:45:42 <oedipus> lol

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Unknown oedipus: lol

19:45:48 <ShaneM> its a sign of the apocalypse

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Unknown ShaneM: its a sign of the apocalypse

19:45:59 <oedipus> hope it's only the sixth seal

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Unknown oedipus: hope it's only the sixth seal

19:47:28 <Steven> Roland: Delivery context is an important part of what we need to do for adaptation

Roland Merrick: Delivery context is an important part of what we need to do for adaptation

19:47:41 <Steven> ... so we need to look at what DIAL has been doing

... so we need to look at what DIAL has been doing

19:47:51 <Steven> ... CDF framework for eventing

... CDF framework for eventing

19:48:20 <oedipus> intrigued by ideas expressed about an XHTML version of XBL, with xhtml as the container

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Unknown oedipus: intrigued by ideas expressed about an XHTML version of XBL, with xhtml as the container

19:48:35 <Steven> Yes Oedipus, a pity that MarkB isn't here

Yes Oedipus, a pity that MarkB isn't here

19:48:54 <Steven> I hope he will join at some point to give us more detail

I hope he will join at some point to give us more detail

19:49:08 <Steven> but the idea is just a mapping using selectors, to other actions

but the idea is just a mapping using selectors, to other actions

19:49:20 <Steven> and that is easy to represent using XHTML2

and that is easy to represent using XHTML2

19:49:34 <Steven> we have all the infrastructire to achieve the necessary effect

we have all the infrastructire to achieve the necessary effect

19:49:51 <Steven> ROland: So Raman, you were talking about XPath

Roland Merrick: So Raman, you were talking about XPath

19:49:59 <Steven> ... DIAL uses XPath as well

... DIAL uses XPath as well

19:50:02 <Steven> s/RO/Ro/
19:50:10 <oedipus> ah...  i've already talked with the XBL people about assisting in the XBL2 Primer where there is a placeholder for accessibility enhancements via XBL

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Unknown oedipus: ah... i've already talked with the XBL people about assisting in the XBL2 Primer where there is a placeholder for accessibility enhancements via XBL

19:50:11 <Steven> Steven: And XForms

Steven Pemberton: And XForms

19:51:19 <Steven> Steven: It's a shame that the CSS selectors are not more coherent

Steven Pemberton: It's a shame that the CSS selectors are not more coherent

19:51:32 <Steven> ... XPath selectors are clearly more consistent

... XPath selectors are clearly more consistent

19:52:09 <oedipus> pity, too, that CSS selectors aren't more coherently implemented, either...

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Unknown oedipus: pity, too, that CSS selectors aren't more coherently implemented, either...

19:52:42 <Steven> ... I suggested when I was in the CSS WG that they ought to design the whole set right at the beginning, even if they didn't include them all in the first version

... I suggested when I was in the CSS WG that they ought to design the whole set right at the beginning, even if they didn't include them all in the first version

19:52:47 <oedipus> XForms and XPath in an XHTML version of XBL sounds like the best of both worlds, for what that is worth

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Unknown oedipus: XForms and XPath in an XHTML version of XBL sounds like the best of both worlds, for what that is worth

19:53:53 <Steven> Offsite people, we are going to talk to UWA people shortly

Offsite people, we are going to talk to UWA people shortly

19:53:59 <Steven> just so you understand if we go quiet

just so you understand if we go quiet

19:54:08 <Steven> We have an appointment at 3

We have an appointment at 3

19:54:12 <Steven> (in 6 mins)

(in 6 mins)

19:54:14 <oedipus> camcorder captured ARIA demo for HTML WG at: http://63.119.45.135/aria.avi

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Unknown oedipus: camcorder captured ARIA demo for HTML WG at: http://63.119.45.135/aria.avi

19:55:27 <oedipus> quick question to anyone who has an answer: is XProc a viable means of at least managing mash-ups?

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Unknown oedipus: quick question to anyone who has an answer: is XProc a viable means of at least managing mash-ups?

19:56:06 <Steven> Oedipus, can't reach the site

Oedipus, can't reach the site

19:56:34 <oedipus> Steven, neither can i - the IP address is that of the router in the HTML WG conference room

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Unknown oedipus: Steven, neither can i - the IP address is that of the router in the HTML WG conference room

19:57:55 <oedipus> actually, since i couldn't make it in person, i've been able to attend multiple meetings simultaneously

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Unknown oedipus: actually, since i couldn't make it in person, i've been able to attend multiple meetings simultaneously

19:58:09 <Steven> good work!

good work!

20:00:41 <ShaneM> ROTFL

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Unknown ShaneM: ROTFL

20:01:24 <oedipus> it literally said "versioning, dropped"

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Unknown oedipus: it literally said "versioning, dropped"

20:02:33 <Steven> rrsagent, pointer?

rrsagent, pointer?

20:02:33 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-irc#T20-02-33

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-irc#T20-02-33

20:04:34 <oedipus> marcos is going to send me a copy of the ARIA demo and i'll put it someplace publicly accessible

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Unknown oedipus: marcos is going to send me a copy of the ARIA demo and i'll put it someplace publicly accessible

20:04:53 <Steven> ok

ok

20:05:14 <Steven> We are off for coffee, and then UWA (on #uwawg)

We are off for coffee, and then UWA (on #uwawg)

20:06:47 <Steven> We'll be back later in this channel

We'll be back later in this channel

20:07:05 <ShaneM>  roger

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Unknown ShaneM: roger

20:07:17 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes

20:07:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

20:07:40 <Steven> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html#item01
20:08:00 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html#item01

Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html#item01

20:48:21 <alessio> hallo again, sorry but that's italian situation about mobile connection on travelling...

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(No events recorded for 40 minutes)

Unknown alessio: hallo again, sorry but that's italian situation about mobile connection on travelling...

20:49:46 <Steven-mobile> :-)

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Unknown Steven-mobile: :-)

20:50:19 <Steven-mobile> Alessio, we are now in a joint mtg #uwawg

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Unknown Steven-mobile: Alessio, we are now in a joint mtg #uwawg

20:50:34 <alessio> yes

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Unknown alessio: yes

21:07:46 <Steven-mobile> Hi nick

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(No events recorded for 17 minutes)

Unknown Steven-mobile: Hi nick

21:08:00 <Steven-mobile> We are mtg with uwa

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Unknown Steven-mobile: We are mtg with uwa

21:08:35 <Steven-mobile> Are you staying in Boston?

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Unknown Steven-mobile: Are you staying in Boston?

21:09:52 <Nick> yes

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Unknown Nick: yes

21:10:25 <Steven-mobile> Actual channel is #ddwg

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Unknown Steven-mobile: Actual channel is #ddwg

21:14:46 <ShaneM>  there's some joke there, but its too easy

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Unknown ShaneM: there's some joke there, but its too easy

21:30:53 <Nick> is the XHTML wg also meeting tomorrow?

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(No events recorded for 16 minutes)

Unknown Nick: is the XHTML wg also meeting tomorrow?

21:31:57 <myakura> think so.

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Unknown myakura: think so.

21:32:28 <myakura> http://www.w3.org/2007/11/TPAC/Schedule.html#Fri yes there is

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Unknown myakura: http://www.w3.org/2007/11/TPAC/Schedule.html#Fri yes there is

21:33:36 <Nick> not what I'm going to do tomorrow, can I join the meeting?

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Unknown Nick: not sure what I'm going to do tomorrow, can I join the meeting?

21:34:35 <Nick> s/not what/not sure what/
21:35:16 <myakura> observers are allowed so i think you can join if registered

Scribe problem: the name 'myakura' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'myakura' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown myakura: observers are allowed so i think you can join if registered

21:35:36 <myakura> i think i'll be there at some time

Scribe problem: the name 'myakura' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'myakura' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown myakura: i think i'll be there at some time

21:42:34 <Steven-mobile> The uwa mtg is unlikely to end soon. We restart tomorrow at 9am EST

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven-mobile' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven-mobile' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

(No events recorded for 6 minutes)

Unknown Steven-mobile: The uwa mtg is unlikely to end soon. We restart tomorrow at 9am EST

21:47:55 <oedipus> thanks steven -- will be there -- well, here, but you know what i mean...

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Unknown oedipus: thanks steven -- will be there -- well, here, but you know what i mean...

22:08:08 <Steven> Yes Nick, of course you may join

(No events recorded for 20 minutes)

Yes Nick, of course you may join



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