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18:30:50 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-irc ←
18:31:00 <Steven> rrsagent, make log public
Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, make log public ←
18:34:21 <Steven> Scribe: Steven
(Scribe set to Steven Pemberton)
18:35:00 <Steven> Meeting: FtF XHTML2 WG, Cambridge, MA, USA
18:35:07 <Steven> Chair: Roland
18:35:32 <Steven> Present: Steven, Rich, Roland, Raman
Scribe problem: the name 'Raman' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami
18:35:48 <Steven> Topic: Agenda
18:35:56 <Steven> rrsagent, pointer?
rrsagent, pointer? ←
18:35:56 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-irc#T18-35-56
RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-irc#T18-35-56 ←
18:36:04 <Steven> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-irc#T18-35-56
18:36:14 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
18:36:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html Steven ←
18:39:18 <Tina> Good [insert suitable time of day here], everyone.
Scribe problem: the name 'Tina' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Tina' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Tina: Good [insert suitable time of day here], everyone. ←
18:39:25 <Steven> Present+Tina
Present+Tina ←
18:39:28 <Steven> Hi there Tina
Hi there Tina ←
18:39:34 <Steven> We are just starting
We are just starting ←
18:39:42 <Steven> Agenda topics:
Agenda topics: ←
18:39:47 <Steven> * Strategy
* Strategy ←
18:39:52 <Steven> * Meetings
* Meetings ←
18:39:55 <Steven> * Documents
* Documents ←
18:46:04 <Steven> Topic: Strategy
(No events recorded for 6 minutes)
18:47:54 <Steven> Roland: The group is called XHTML2, and our primary delivery is XHTML2
Roland Merrick: The group is called XHTML2, and our primary delivery is XHTML2 ←
18:48:00 <Steven> ... what are we trying to achieve?
... what are we trying to achieve? ←
18:48:14 <Steven> ... I want to suggest we focus on authoring, and not rendering
... I want to suggest we focus on authoring, and not rendering ←
18:48:30 <Steven> ... and look at a pipeline from authoring to rendering on lots of devices
... and look at a pipeline from authoring to rendering on lots of devices ←
18:48:48 <Steven> ... with personalization, device independence
... with personalization, device independence ←
18:48:51 <Steven> ... etc
... etc ←
18:49:05 <Steven> ... being applied from the authored materials to the user experience
... being applied from the authored materials to the user experience ←
18:50:37 <Steven> Steven: Now that we have the split and the chartering behind us, it gives us the opportunity now to focus on the h\igher-level stuff
Steven Pemberton: Now that we have the split and the chartering behind us, it gives us the opportunity now to focus on the h\igher-level stuff ←
18:50:48 <Steven> ... and HTML can still remain the assembly language of the web
... and HTML can still remain the assembly language of the web ←
18:50:57 <Steven> ... and we don't have to worry about it
... and we don't have to worry about it ←
18:51:07 <Steven> Raman: Like we did with XForms
Unknown Raman: Like we did with XForms ←
18:51:25 <Steven> Roland: We don't need to think of the page as the unit of a document either
Roland Merrick: We don't need to think of the page as the unit of a document either ←
18:51:31 <Steven> ... with mashup iedas in mind
... with mashup ideas in mind ←
18:52:05 <Steven> s/iedas/ideas/
18:53:31 <Tina> I believe we should focus on creating a language with which structure and semantic interpretation can be encoded - rendering ought be a non-topic in achieving this goal.
Scribe problem: the name 'Tina' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Tina' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Tina: I believe we should focus on creating a language with which structure and semantic interpretation can be encoded - rendering ought be a non-topic in achieving this goal. ←
18:53:36 <Steven> Raman: I would like to avoid SOAP and WSDL if possible in the solution space
Unknown Raman: I would like to avoid SOAP and WSDL if possible in the solution space ←
18:53:53 <Steven> I agree Tina
I agree Tina ←
18:54:10 <Steven> Raman: So let us focus on authoring, delivering clean stuff
Unknown Raman: So let us focus on authoring, delivering clean stuff ←
18:54:50 <Steven> Roland: If we consider our world supporting mashup styles, whatever our unit of work is, we can consider the broader ecosystem such as security
Roland Merrick: If we consider our world supporting mashup styles, whatever our unit of work is, we can consider the broader ecosystem such as security ←
18:55:41 <Steven> Roland: It allows us to focus on *intent*, and therefore we can ditch h1-h6 for example, and just use the context
Roland Merrick: It allows us to focus on *intent*, and therefore we can ditch h1-h6 for example, and just use the context ←
18:56:10 <Steven> ... and remove some of the clutter that is still in the XHTML2 spec for historical reasons
... and remove some of the clutter that is still in the XHTML2 spec for historical reasons ←
18:56:25 <Steven> Steven: Sounds excellent
Steven Pemberton: Sounds excellent ←
18:56:35 <Steven> Roland: But we are still talking about compound documents
Roland Merrick: But we are still talking about compound documents ←
18:56:45 <Steven> ... if we need mathml, svg, it is still composable
... if we need mathml, svg, it is still composable ←
18:57:25 <Steven> ... and one other thing, I would like us to try and deal with the namespace ugliness
... and one other thing, I would like us to try and deal with the namespace ugliness ←
18:57:56 <Steven> Raman: Given that XML Schema doesn't define the root element, we could actually define some new root elements
Unknown Raman: Given that XML Schema doesn't define the root element, we could actually define some new root elements ←
18:58:11 <Steven> ... such as <web>
... such as <web> ←
18:58:21 <Steven> ... we can avoid XML Schema
... we can avoid XML Schema ←
18:58:28 <Steven> ... we can alias names where needed
... we can alias names where needed ←
18:58:42 <Steven> ... to make authoring easier
... to make authoring easier ←
18:59:00 <Steven> ROland: THis is a distinct subject in its own right
Roland Merrick: This is a distinct subject in its own right ←
18:59:06 <Steven> s/RO/Ro/
18:59:11 <Steven> s/TH/Th/
18:59:35 <Steven> Raman: We need to protect the author from the ugliness
Unknown Raman: We need to protect the author from the ugliness ←
19:00:13 <Steven> Rich: I was talking with Dave Raggett about components
Richard Schwerdtfeger: I was talking with Dave Raggett about components ←
19:00:24 <Steven> Roland: We need to talk about levels of abstraction
Roland Merrick: We need to talk about levels of abstraction ←
19:02:00 <Steven> Steven: I think we need to consider XBL at some level as part of the infrastructure for XHTML2
Steven Pemberton: I think we need to consider XBL at some level as part of the infrastructure for XHTML2 ←
19:02:34 <Steven> Welcome Shane
Welcome Shane ←
19:02:38 <Steven> Present+Shane
Present+Shane ←
19:02:54 <Steven> skype available if you want SHane
skype available if you want SHane ←
19:02:59 <Steven> rrsagent, pointer?
rrsagent, pointer? ←
19:02:59 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-irc#T19-02-59
RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-irc#T19-02-59 ←
19:03:17 <Steven> ok
ok ←
19:04:04 <Steven> Raman: If we do the authoring layer cleaner, then we can later use XBLn to implement
Unknown Raman: If we do the authoring layer cleaner, then we can later use XBLn to implement ←
19:05:19 <Steven> Rich: Can you still render to the web?
Richard Schwerdtfeger: Can you still render to the web? ←
19:05:43 <Steven> Steven: Yes, in fact ebay.co.uk are already soing this. There are at least two companies using XHTML2 to adapt to devices
Steven Pemberton: Yes, in fact ebay.co.uk are already soing this. There are at least two companies using XHTML2 to adapt to devices ←
19:07:00 <Steven> Rich: And can we add time?
Richard Schwerdtfeger: And can we add time? ←
19:08:42 <Steven> Steven: I went to a meeting with SYMM this week, and they demo'd a page with XForms and SMIL working together with the Forms driving the SMIL presentation
Steven Pemberton: I went to a meeting with SYMM this week, and they demo'd a page with XForms and SMIL working together with the Forms driving the SMIL presentation ←
19:08:51 <Steven> ... that's the advantage of the W3C architecture
... that's the advantage of the W3C architecture ←
19:09:18 <Steven> ... SYMM are the domain experts in time, and we can use thier stuff with ours
... SYMM are the domain experts in time, and we can use thier stuff with ours ←
19:09:29 <Steven> Rich: THis makes our stuff much more useful
Richard Schwerdtfeger: This makes our stuff much more useful ←
19:09:37 <Steven> ... because it makes it much easier to write to
... because it makes it much easier to write to ←
19:09:41 <Steven> s/TH?Th/
s/TH?Th/ (warning: replacement failed) ←
19:10:07 <Steven> s/TH/Th/
19:11:27 <Steven> Steven: Mark Birbeck has recently been suggesting making an XHTML version of XBL, with xhtml as the container
Steven Pemberton: Mark Birbeck has recently been suggesting making an XHTML version of XBL, with xhtml as the container ←
19:11:36 <Steven> Raman: Then we could use XPath selectors
Unknown Raman: Then we could use XPath selectors ←
19:11:51 <Steven> Steven: Which fits better into our architecture, since we use XPath already
Steven Pemberton: Which fits better into our architecture, since we use XPath already ←
19:17:13 <Steven> Roland: So we are going to get over our bipolar disorder
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Roland Merrick: So we are going to get over our bipolar disorder ←
19:17:48 <Steven> Steven: Well we have been trying to make everyone happy in a bimodal world
Steven Pemberton: Well we have been trying to make everyone happy in a bimodal world ←
19:17:59 <Steven> ... and you end up making everyone unhappy
... and you end up making everyone unhappy ←
19:18:16 <Steven> ... now we can concentrate on being clean
... now we can concentrate on being clean ←
19:18:47 <Steven> Roland: We need a technical strategy, but also a communication strategy
Roland Merrick: We need a technical strategy, but also a communication strategy ←
19:19:40 <Steven> Rich: Change naming?
Richard Schwerdtfeger: Change naming? ←
19:19:45 <Steven> ROland: Maybe in time
Roland Merrick: Maybe in time ←
19:19:49 <Steven> s/RO/Ro/
19:20:36 <Steven> Rich: We need to talk to companies to ask what they need
Richard Schwerdtfeger: We need to talk to companies to ask what they need ←
19:20:53 <Steven> Raman: We must avoid making it too big
Unknown Raman: We must avoid making it too big ←
19:21:09 <Steven> ... talk 1-1 with them is fine though
... talk 1-1 with them is fine though ←
19:21:41 <ShaneM> are there people who think that the current XHTML 2 strategy is NOT sufficient? XForms + RDFa + cleaner, more consistent markup?
Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown ShaneM: are there people who think that the current XHTML 2 strategy is NOT sufficient? XForms + RDFa + cleaner, more consistent markup? ←
19:22:09 <ShaneM> as far as I am concerned, XHTML 2 in its current form is ready to go.
Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown ShaneM: as far as I am concerned, XHTML 2 in its current form is ready to go. ←
19:22:28 <Steven> I think we can publish
I think we can publish ←
19:22:39 <Tina> We must also be careful regarding talking to companies. Listening to their ideas, certainly, but not to include willy-nilly whatever they might desire.
Scribe problem: the name 'Tina' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Tina' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Tina: We must also be careful regarding talking to companies. Listening to their ideas, certainly, but not to include willy-nilly whatever they might desire. ←
19:22:43 <Steven> but we are discussing cleaning it up even more than it is
but we are discussing cleaning it up even more than it is ←
19:22:54 <Steven> +1 on that Tina
+1 on that Tina ←
19:22:56 <ShaneM> okay. I ahve no problem with that.
Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown ShaneM: okay. I ahve no problem with that. ←
19:23:11 <ShaneM> sorry I missed the earlier discussion. my week is pretty messed up
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Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown ShaneM: sorry I missed the earlier discussion. my week is pretty messed up ←
19:23:26 <Steven> We are going to talk about publishing strategies later
We are going to talk about publishing strategies later ←
19:24:30 <Tina> Will we include name-concepts in that discussion? It really is needed.
Scribe problem: the name 'Tina' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Tina' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Tina: Will we include name-concepts in that discussion? It really is needed. ←
19:24:41 <Steven> Rich: Why did EBay go with this?
Richard Schwerdtfeger: Why did EBay go with this? ←
19:24:49 <Steven> Roland: SIngle authoring
Roland Merrick: Single authoring ←
19:24:54 <Steven> s/SI/Si/
19:25:39 <Steven> Steven: Time magazine use XHTML2 as well for similar reasons
Steven Pemberton: Time magazine use XHTML2 as well for similar reasons ←
19:26:04 <Steven> ... they have one central format that they can extract the information from to deliver in as many other forms as they like
... they have one central format that they can extract the information from to deliver in as many other forms as they like ←
19:28:20 <Steven> Raman: Let's take some use cases, and look to see if anyone thought we needed to add anything, but also what we can now safely take out
Unknown Raman: Let's take some use cases, and look to see if anyone thought we needed to add anything, but also what we can now safely take out ←
19:28:46 <Steven> Rich: There is also Dita
Richard Schwerdtfeger: There is also Dita ←
19:28:48 <ShaneM> lots of people have asked for hr back
Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown ShaneM: lots of people have asked for hr back ←
19:28:53 <Steven> Roland: A publishing format
Roland Merrick: A publishing format ←
19:29:01 <ShaneM> and br, fwiw.
Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown ShaneM: and br, fwiw. ←
19:29:40 <Steven> Name concepts Tina?
Name concepts Tina? ←
19:32:19 <Steven> Roland: There are two directions, more redical, and less radical.
Roland Merrick: There are two directions, more radical, and less radical. ←
19:32:45 <Steven> ... The less radical is XHTML 1,2, which is the combination of what we have now,
... The less radical is XHTML 1,2, which is the combination of what we have now, ←
19:32:52 <Steven> ... allowing XForms in 1.1 for instance
... allowing XForms in 1.1 for instance ←
19:32:59 <Steven> ... rdfa, role etc
... rdfa, role etc ←
19:33:10 <Steven> s/redical/radical
19:33:46 <Steven> Rich: I'd like to show these slides on Dita (which is being standardised by OASIS)
Richard Schwerdtfeger: I'd like to show these slides on Dita (which is being standardised by OASIS) ←
19:33:58 <Steven> [no URL I'm afraid, sorry people off line]
[no URL I'm afraid, sorry people off line] ←
19:34:05 <Roland_> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=dita
Roland Merrick: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=dita ←
19:34:31 <Steven> Rich: They have topic maps in the language
Richard Schwerdtfeger: They have topic maps in the language ←
19:35:16 <Steven> Raman: We need to keep our focus sharp, so we shouldn't add topic maps, but let people import them if they want
Unknown Raman: We need to keep our focus sharp, so we shouldn't add topic maps, but let people import them if they want ←
19:36:13 <Steven> Steven: But looking at this slide, I see something that you can do with RDFa
Steven Pemberton: But looking at this slide, I see something that you can do with RDFa ←
19:36:20 <Rich> Topics:
Scribe problem: the name 'Topics' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Topics: [ Scribe Assist by Richard Schwerdtfeger ] ←
19:36:20 <Rich> <topic id=abc> <title>My topic</title> <body><p>And so on</p></body></topic>
Richard Schwerdtfeger: <topic id=abc> <title>My topic</title> <body><p>And so on</p></body></topic> ←
19:36:20 <Rich> Maps:
Scribe problem: the name 'Maps' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Maps: [ Scribe Assist by Richard Schwerdtfeger ] ←
19:36:20 <Rich> <map id=xyz> <topicref href=abc.dita#abc> <topicref href=def.dita#def/> </topicref></map>
Richard Schwerdtfeger: <map id=xyz> <topicref href=abc.dita#abc> <topicref href=def.dita#def/> </topicref></map> ←
19:36:20 <Rich> Specialization to create new types of topics and maps:
Richard Schwerdtfeger: Specialization to create new types of topics and maps: ←
19:36:21 <Rich> <topic> ? <task>
Richard Schwerdtfeger: <topic> ? <task> ←
19:36:23 <Rich> <map> ? <bookmap>
Richard Schwerdtfeger: <map> ? <bookmap> ←
19:36:25 <Rich> Defaulted class attribute maps specialized elements to ancestor ones:
Richard Schwerdtfeger: Defaulted class attribute maps specialized elements to ancestor ones: ←
19:36:27 <Rich> <context class=- topic/section task/context>Heres why</context
Richard Schwerdtfeger: <context class=- topic/section task/context>Heres why</context ←
19:36:40 <Steven> ... a span with rel="topicref" and the href
... a span with rel="topicref" and the href ←
19:36:49 <Steven> ... done deal, that's the glory of RDFa
... done deal, that's the glory of RDFa ←
19:37:35 <Steven> Present+Oedipus
Present+Oedipus ←
19:37:38 <Steven> Welcome oedipus
Welcome oedipus ←
19:37:49 <oedipus> just got your invitation -- thanks!
Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown oedipus: just got your invitation -- thanks! ←
19:37:59 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
19:37:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html Steven ←
19:38:05 <oedipus> thanks
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Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown oedipus: thanks ←
19:38:08 <Steven> you might want to see the minutes to catch up
you might want to see the minutes to catch up ←
19:38:38 <Tina> Steven: yes. At the moment there exist confusion as to the *name* of the thing - aka XHTML 2. Sorry I'm late.
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Steven Pemberton: yes. At the moment there exist confusion as to the *name* of the thing - aka XHTML 2. Sorry I'm late. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Tina ] ←
19:38:45 <oedipus> that's what i'm doing
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Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown oedipus: that's what i'm doing ←
19:39:08 <Steven> Yes Tina, that is a future discussion, but we're leaving it as-is for the time being
Yes Tina, that is a future discussion, but we're leaving it as-is for the time being ←
19:39:37 <Tina> That's fine, as long as the discussion is had. The way it is going now will lead to some chaos, if earlier experiences is any indication.
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Scribe problem: the name 'Tina' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Tina: That's fine, as long as the discussion is had. The way it is going now will lead to some chaos, if earlier experiences is any indication. ←
19:41:00 <Steven> [Rich's slides even mention RDFa as a potential aplicaiton]
[Rich's slides even mention RDFa as a potential application] ←
19:41:20 <Steven> s/aplicaiton/application
19:41:22 <Steven> lol
lol ←
19:41:26 <Steven> Welcome Alessio!
Welcome Alessio! ←
19:41:30 <Steven> Present+Alessio
Present+Alessio ←
19:41:38 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
19:41:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html Steven ←
19:41:49 <oedipus> shane, reading minutes shouldn't the horizontality or verticality of a separator be a styling issue / controlled by stylesheets
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Unknown oedipus: shane, reading minutes shouldn't the horizontality or verticality of a separator be a styling issue / controlled by stylesheets ←
19:42:01 <oedipus> no need to bring back HR
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Unknown oedipus: no need to bring back HR ←
19:42:11 <alessio> hi all, I'm on a train :)
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Unknown alessio: hi all, I'm on a train :) ←
19:42:12 <alessio> so connection could be not stable
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Unknown alessio: so connection could be not stable ←
19:42:43 <Steven> ok
ok ←
19:43:15 <ShaneM> oedipus: of coruse it should. people asked about other extensions. Just playing along.
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Unknown oedipus: of coruse it should. people asked about other extensions. Just playing along. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ShaneM ] ←
19:44:58 <oedipus> RDFa is very attractive to a few of us in PF (Protocols & Formats), not just RichS
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Unknown oedipus: RDFa is very attractive to a few of us in PF (Protocols & Formats), not just RichS ←
19:45:07 <Steven> :-)
:-) ←
19:45:27 <Steven> It got some good comments yesterday at the TP as well
It got some good comments yesterday at the TP as well ←
19:45:37 <ShaneM> hell, I even have uses for it.
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Unknown ShaneM: hell, I even have uses for it. ←
19:45:42 <oedipus> lol
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Unknown oedipus: lol ←
19:45:48 <ShaneM> its a sign of the apocalypse
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Unknown ShaneM: its a sign of the apocalypse ←
19:45:59 <oedipus> hope it's only the sixth seal
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Unknown oedipus: hope it's only the sixth seal ←
19:47:28 <Steven> Roland: Delivery context is an important part of what we need to do for adaptation
Roland Merrick: Delivery context is an important part of what we need to do for adaptation ←
19:47:41 <Steven> ... so we need to look at what DIAL has been doing
... so we need to look at what DIAL has been doing ←
19:47:51 <Steven> ... CDF framework for eventing
... CDF framework for eventing ←
19:48:20 <oedipus> intrigued by ideas expressed about an XHTML version of XBL, with xhtml as the container
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Unknown oedipus: intrigued by ideas expressed about an XHTML version of XBL, with xhtml as the container ←
19:48:35 <Steven> Yes Oedipus, a pity that MarkB isn't here
Yes Oedipus, a pity that MarkB isn't here ←
19:48:54 <Steven> I hope he will join at some point to give us more detail
I hope he will join at some point to give us more detail ←
19:49:08 <Steven> but the idea is just a mapping using selectors, to other actions
but the idea is just a mapping using selectors, to other actions ←
19:49:20 <Steven> and that is easy to represent using XHTML2
and that is easy to represent using XHTML2 ←
19:49:34 <Steven> we have all the infrastructire to achieve the necessary effect
we have all the infrastructire to achieve the necessary effect ←
19:49:51 <Steven> ROland: So Raman, you were talking about XPath
Roland Merrick: So Raman, you were talking about XPath ←
19:49:59 <Steven> ... DIAL uses XPath as well
... DIAL uses XPath as well ←
19:50:02 <Steven> s/RO/Ro/
19:50:10 <oedipus> ah... i've already talked with the XBL people about assisting in the XBL2 Primer where there is a placeholder for accessibility enhancements via XBL
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Unknown oedipus: ah... i've already talked with the XBL people about assisting in the XBL2 Primer where there is a placeholder for accessibility enhancements via XBL ←
19:50:11 <Steven> Steven: And XForms
Steven Pemberton: And XForms ←
19:51:19 <Steven> Steven: It's a shame that the CSS selectors are not more coherent
Steven Pemberton: It's a shame that the CSS selectors are not more coherent ←
19:51:32 <Steven> ... XPath selectors are clearly more consistent
... XPath selectors are clearly more consistent ←
19:52:09 <oedipus> pity, too, that CSS selectors aren't more coherently implemented, either...
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Unknown oedipus: pity, too, that CSS selectors aren't more coherently implemented, either... ←
19:52:42 <Steven> ... I suggested when I was in the CSS WG that they ought to design the whole set right at the beginning, even if they didn't include them all in the first version
... I suggested when I was in the CSS WG that they ought to design the whole set right at the beginning, even if they didn't include them all in the first version ←
19:52:47 <oedipus> XForms and XPath in an XHTML version of XBL sounds like the best of both worlds, for what that is worth
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Unknown oedipus: XForms and XPath in an XHTML version of XBL sounds like the best of both worlds, for what that is worth ←
19:53:53 <Steven> Offsite people, we are going to talk to UWA people shortly
Offsite people, we are going to talk to UWA people shortly ←
19:53:59 <Steven> just so you understand if we go quiet
just so you understand if we go quiet ←
19:54:08 <Steven> We have an appointment at 3
We have an appointment at 3 ←
19:54:12 <Steven> (in 6 mins)
(in 6 mins) ←
19:54:14 <oedipus> camcorder captured ARIA demo for HTML WG at: http://63.119.45.135/aria.avi
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Unknown oedipus: camcorder captured ARIA demo for HTML WG at: http://63.119.45.135/aria.avi ←
19:55:27 <oedipus> quick question to anyone who has an answer: is XProc a viable means of at least managing mash-ups?
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Unknown oedipus: quick question to anyone who has an answer: is XProc a viable means of at least managing mash-ups? ←
19:56:06 <Steven> Oedipus, can't reach the site
Oedipus, can't reach the site ←
19:56:34 <oedipus> Steven, neither can i - the IP address is that of the router in the HTML WG conference room
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Unknown oedipus: Steven, neither can i - the IP address is that of the router in the HTML WG conference room ←
19:57:55 <oedipus> actually, since i couldn't make it in person, i've been able to attend multiple meetings simultaneously
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Unknown oedipus: actually, since i couldn't make it in person, i've been able to attend multiple meetings simultaneously ←
19:58:09 <Steven> good work!
good work! ←
20:00:41 <ShaneM> ROTFL
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Unknown ShaneM: ROTFL ←
20:01:24 <oedipus> it literally said "versioning, dropped"
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Unknown oedipus: it literally said "versioning, dropped" ←
20:02:33 <Steven> rrsagent, pointer?
rrsagent, pointer? ←
20:02:33 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-irc#T20-02-33
RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-irc#T20-02-33 ←
20:04:34 <oedipus> marcos is going to send me a copy of the ARIA demo and i'll put it someplace publicly accessible
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Unknown oedipus: marcos is going to send me a copy of the ARIA demo and i'll put it someplace publicly accessible ←
20:04:53 <Steven> ok
ok ←
20:05:14 <Steven> We are off for coffee, and then UWA (on #uwawg)
We are off for coffee, and then UWA (on #uwawg) ←
20:06:47 <Steven> We'll be back later in this channel
We'll be back later in this channel ←
20:07:05 <ShaneM> roger
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Unknown ShaneM: roger ←
20:07:17 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
20:07:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html Steven ←
20:07:40 <Steven> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html#item01
20:08:00 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html#item01
Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-xhtml-minutes.html#item01 ←
20:48:21 <alessio> hallo again, sorry but that's italian situation about mobile connection on travelling...
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(No events recorded for 40 minutes)
Unknown alessio: hallo again, sorry but that's italian situation about mobile connection on travelling... ←
20:49:46 <Steven-mobile> :-)
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Unknown Steven-mobile: :-) ←
20:50:19 <Steven-mobile> Alessio, we are now in a joint mtg #uwawg
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Unknown Steven-mobile: Alessio, we are now in a joint mtg #uwawg ←
20:50:34 <alessio> yes
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Unknown alessio: yes ←
21:07:46 <Steven-mobile> Hi nick
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(No events recorded for 17 minutes)
Unknown Steven-mobile: Hi nick ←
21:08:00 <Steven-mobile> We are mtg with uwa
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Unknown Steven-mobile: We are mtg with uwa ←
21:08:35 <Steven-mobile> Are you staying in Boston?
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Unknown Steven-mobile: Are you staying in Boston? ←
21:09:52 <Nick> yes
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Unknown Nick: yes ←
21:10:25 <Steven-mobile> Actual channel is #ddwg
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Unknown Steven-mobile: Actual channel is #ddwg ←
21:14:46 <ShaneM> there's some joke there, but its too easy
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Unknown ShaneM: there's some joke there, but its too easy ←
21:30:53 <Nick> is the XHTML wg also meeting tomorrow?
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(No events recorded for 16 minutes)
Unknown Nick: is the XHTML wg also meeting tomorrow? ←
21:31:57 <myakura> think so.
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Unknown myakura: think so. ←
21:32:28 <myakura> http://www.w3.org/2007/11/TPAC/Schedule.html#Fri yes there is
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Unknown myakura: http://www.w3.org/2007/11/TPAC/Schedule.html#Fri yes there is ←
21:33:36 <Nick> not what I'm going to do tomorrow, can I join the meeting?
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Scribe problem: the name 'Nick' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Nick: not sure what I'm going to do tomorrow, can I join the meeting? ←
21:34:35 <Nick> s/not what/not sure what/
21:35:16 <myakura> observers are allowed so i think you can join if registered
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Scribe problem: the name 'myakura' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown myakura: observers are allowed so i think you can join if registered ←
21:35:36 <myakura> i think i'll be there at some time
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Scribe problem: the name 'myakura' does not match any of the 7 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Steven Pemberton Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Unknown Raman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown myakura: i think i'll be there at some time ←
21:42:34 <Steven-mobile> The uwa mtg is unlikely to end soon. We restart tomorrow at 9am EST
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Unknown Steven-mobile: The uwa mtg is unlikely to end soon. We restart tomorrow at 9am EST ←
21:47:55 <oedipus> thanks steven -- will be there -- well, here, but you know what i mean...
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(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Unknown oedipus: thanks steven -- will be there -- well, here, but you know what i mean... ←
22:08:08 <Steven> Yes Nick, of course you may join
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Yes Nick, of course you may join ←
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