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Weekly XHTML2 WG Teleconference

Minutes of 29 August 2007

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0029
Seen
Alessio Cartocci, Mark Birbeck, Masataka Yakura, Richard Schwerdtfeger, Roland Merrick, Shane McCarron, Steven Pemberton, Unknown Gregory_Rosmaita, Unknown oedipus, Unknown yamx
Regrets
Alessio Cartocci, Masataka Yakura, Roland Merrick
Scribe
Richard Schwerdtfeger
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. We shall research further link
  2. We reject 1 and 3 and will investigate 2 in more detail on 0011 link
  3. This is the Forms group's problem and not something XML Events 2 can cope with link
  4. Keep HR in the legacy module and make HR deprecated link
  5. This is not our problem link
Topics

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13:54:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/08/29-xhtml-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/08/29-xhtml-irc

13:55:11 <Steven> zakim, this will be xhtml

Steven Pemberton: zakim, this will be xhtml

13:55:11 <Zakim> ok, Steven; I see IA_XHTML2()10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; I see IA_XHTML2()10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes

13:55:22 <Steven> rrsagent, make log public

Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, make log public

13:55:35 <Steven> Meeting: Weekly XHTML2 WG Teleconference
13:56:42 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0029
13:56:50 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0029

Steven Pemberton: Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0029

13:57:16 <Steven> Regrets: Alessio, Masataka Yakura, Roland Merrick
13:58:50 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()10:00AM has now started

13:58:57 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita

Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregory_Rosmaita

14:00:57 <Zakim> +??P2

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P2

14:01:15 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617

Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617

14:01:15 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made

14:01:17 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven

14:01:20 <yamx> Zakim, ??P2 is yamx

Scribe problem: the name 'yamx' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'yamx' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown yamx: Zakim, ??P2 is yamx

14:01:20 <Zakim> +yamx; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +yamx; got it

14:01:58 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?

Mark Birbeck: zakim, code?

14:01:58 <Zakim> the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

14:02:07 <yamx> The inputmode resolution is OK for me.

Scribe problem: the name 'yamx' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'yamx' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown yamx: The inputmode resolution is OK for me.

14:02:56 <Zakim> +??P7

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7

14:03:01 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am ?

Mark Birbeck: zakim, i am ?

14:03:01 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +markbirbeck; got it

14:03:52 <Steven> zakim, who is here?

Steven Pemberton: zakim, who is here?

14:03:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita, yamx, Steven, markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita, yamx, Steven, markbirbeck

14:03:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see Rich, markbirbeck, oedipus, Zakim, RRSAgent, Steven, yamx, Tina, myakura, krijnh

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Rich, markbirbeck, oedipus, Zakim, RRSAgent, Steven, yamx, Tina, myakura, krijnh

14:04:33 <Zakim> +[IBM]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM]

14:04:43 <Steven> zakim, [IBM is Rich

Steven Pemberton: zakim, [IBM is Rich

14:04:43 <Zakim> +Rich; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Rich; got it

14:08:50 <Steven> Scribe: Rich

(Scribe set to Richard Schwerdtfeger)

14:09:30 <Rich> Steven: we decided to cancel the face to face because not enough people were coming

Steven Pemberton: we decided to cancel the face to face because not enough people were coming

14:09:45 <Rich> Steven: we had only 2 people that signed up.

Steven Pemberton: we had only 2 people that signed up.

14:10:02 <Rich> Steven: we will have our face to face at the Technical Plenary in Cambridge

Steven Pemberton: we will have our face to face at the Technical Plenary in Cambridge

14:10:14 <oedipus> XHTML2 f2f at Plenary are at same time as HTML WG sessions at plenary

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown oedipus: XHTML2 f2f at Plenary are at same time as HTML WG sessions at plenary

14:10:34 <Rich> Steven: I want to cover 2 things today for starters

Steven Pemberton: I want to cover 2 things today for starters

14:10:39 <Rich> Topic: Input Mode

1. Input Mode

14:10:59 <Rich> Steven: the forms group agreed the modifiers can apply to the default script

Steven Pemberton: the forms group agreed the modifiers can apply to the default script

14:11:15 <Rich> Steven: it is possible to have the default mode to digits

Steven Pemberton: it is possible to have the default mode to digits

14:11:32 <Rich> Steven: the modifiers apply to that default script

Steven Pemberton: the modifiers apply to that default script

14:11:49 <Rich> Steven: We do not have to change the test suite to match as the test suite assumes this already

Steven Pemberton: We do not have to change the test suite to match as the test suite assumes this already

14:11:53 <Rich> Topic: Role

2. Role

14:12:23 <Rich> Steven: We did raise the last call to HTCG and it was agreed to have a short last call

Steven Pemberton: We did raise the last call to HTCG and it was agreed to have a short last call

14:12:37 <Rich> ACTION: Steven move the role document to last call.

ACTION: Steven move the role document to last call.

14:13:05 <Rich> Steven: the HTCG agreed to a 3 week last call period.

Steven Pemberton: the HTCG agreed to a 3 week last call period.

14:13:50 <Rich> Topic: Profile Attribute

3. Profile Attribute

14:14:10 <Rich> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0037.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0037.html

14:14:32 <Rich> Steven: we agreed to deprecate the profile attribute. It used to be on the head

Steven Pemberton: we agreed to deprecate the profile attribute. It used to be on the head

14:15:15 <Rich> Steven: You will find the wording for html 4 is strange. It refers to a single URI but that user agents can support multiple URIS by having space separated URIs

Steven Pemberton: You will find the wording for html 4 is strange. It refers to a single URI but that user agents can support multiple URIS by having space separated URIs

14:15:29 <Rich> Steven: It is better to have the profiles on links

Steven Pemberton: It is better to have the profiles on links

14:15:46 <Rich> Steven: <link rel=profile .. and then the uri

Steven Pemberton: <link rel=profile .. and then the uri

14:16:14 <Rich> Steven: What is being asked is that the profile attribute be kept

Steven Pemberton: What is being asked is that the profile attribute be kept

14:16:37 <Rich> Steven: It is not clear that he understand that the profile attribute has been moved but not removed

Steven Pemberton: It is not clear that he understand that the profile attribute has been moved but not removed

14:17:18 <Rich> Steven: I don't know if Hal Holpin understands that.

Steven Pemberton: I don't know if Hal Halpin understands that.

14:17:37 <Steven> s/Holpin/Halpin/
14:18:15 <myakura> He understood that (when i joined #grddl-wg and talked a bit about that)

Masataka Yakura: He understood that (when i joined #grddl-wg and talked a bit about that)

14:18:58 <Rich> Steven: Masataka clarified what we have done in a note but he did not appear to reply.

Steven Pemberton: Masataka clarified what we have done in a note but he did not appear to reply.

14:18:58 <Steven> Ah! OK thanks

Steven Pemberton: Ah! OK thanks

14:19:33 <myakura> yet he seemed to want xhtml2 to be not compartible w/ the current grddl implementation (i.e. @profile)

Masataka Yakura: yet he seemed to want xhtml2 to be not compartible w/ the current grddl implementation (i.e. @profile)

14:19:45 <Rich> Steven: Should we require grddl to only look at the profile attribute?

Steven Pemberton: Should we require grddl to only look at the profile attribute?

14:20:12 <Rich> Steven: Profile is so obviously better in link. It is much more explicit.

Steven Pemberton: Profile is so obviously better in link. It is much more explicit.

14:20:30 <Rich> Steven: it benefits him with the entire semantics storing mechanism.

Steven Pemberton: it benefits him with the entire semantics storing mechanism.

14:20:36 <oedipus> +1 for future-looking profile rather than legacy link & its vagueness

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown oedipus: +1 for future-looking profile rather than legacy link & its vagueness

14:20:59 <oedipus> Rich: cleaner with link - in line with whatever else is going on

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Richard Schwerdtfeger: cleaner with link - in line with whatever else is going on [ Scribe Assist by Unknown oedipus ]

14:21:35 <Rich> Steven: Some people believe we should be backward compatible and old markup should still work.

Steven Pemberton: Some people believe we should be backward compatible and old markup should still work.

14:21:50 <Rich> Mark: The thing is for Hal - can you support both?

Mark Birbeck: The thing is for Hal - can you support both?

14:22:09 <Rich> Mark: they are processing the document outside the browser

Mark Birbeck: they are processing the document outside the browser

14:22:41 <Rich> Steven: we should leave it as it is now with the link rel vehicle until we see a message from Hal

Steven Pemberton: we should leave it as it is now with the link rel vehicle until we see a message from Hal

14:22:57 <Rich> Steven: I will send him a message and see if he responds.

Steven Pemberton: I will send him a message and see if he responds.

14:23:30 <Rich> Topic: XHTML Events 2 issues

4. XHTML Events 2 issues

14:23:41 <Rich> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0011

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0011

14:23:41 <Rich> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0012

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0012

14:23:41 <Rich> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0013

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0013

14:23:50 <Steven> Issues with phase attribute in XML Events 2

Steven Pemberton: Issues with phase attribute in XML Events 2

14:24:07 <Rich> Steven: discuss this first: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0011

Steven Pemberton: discuss this first: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0011

14:24:40 <Rich> Steven: The comment from John: It is odd that you can handle an event in the capture phase and you can

Steven Pemberton: The comment from John: It is odd that you can handle an event in the capture phase and you can

14:24:40 <Rich> handle it in the target+bubble phase, but that you cannot say you only

handle it in the target+bubble phase, but that you cannot say you only

14:24:40 <Rich> want to handle the event if it is the target phase only.  Note that the

want to handle the event if it is the target phase only. Note that the

14:24:40 <Rich> term "target phase" actually does appear

term "target phase" actually does appear

14:25:02 <Rich> Steven: John is saying we are specifying a syntax that already exists

Steven Pemberton: John is saying we are specifying a syntax that already exists

14:25:13 <Rich> Mark: We have added things to support DOM 3 events

Mark Birbeck: We have added things to support DOM 3 events

14:25:38 <Rich> Steven: John's comment: Moreover, I would like to express the point of view that the proper

Steven Pemberton: John's comment: Moreover, I would like to express the point of view that the proper

14:25:38 <Rich> default *should* be "target".

default *should* be "target".

14:25:45 <Rich> Steven: That is not possible either

Steven Pemberton: That is not possible either

14:26:21 <Rich> Mark: Why does he think the output outside a label gets a value chnage event?

Mark Birbeck: Why does he think the output outside a label gets a value chnage event?

14:26:46 <Rich> Mark: The output will not get a value change event

Mark Birbeck: The output will not get a value change event

14:26:58 <Rich> Steven: You're right

Steven Pemberton: You're right

14:27:18 <Rich> Mark: I see. When the node change the event bubbles to the root and back down again

Mark Birbeck: I see. When the node change the event bubbles to the root and back down again

14:28:10 <Rich> Steven: we could look at this in more detail.

Steven Pemberton: we could look at this in more detail.

14:28:30 <Rich> Steven: we could change attributes and things  like that but we can't change DOM 2 events.

Steven Pemberton: we could change attributes and things like that but we can't change DOM 2 events.

14:28:39 <Rich> Mark: We need to look at this.

Mark Birbeck: We need to look at this.

14:29:04 <Rich> RESOLUTION: We shall research further

RESOLVED: We shall research further

14:29:35 <Rich> Steven: next 1

Steven Pemberton: next 1

14:29:48 <Rich> Steven: you can't specify the bubble face

Steven Pemberton: you can't specify the bubble face

14:29:55 <Rich> Steven: not sure you would.

Steven Pemberton: not sure you would.

14:30:15 <Rich> Mark: I see what he is getting at. Not sure John is quite right.

Mark Birbeck: I see what he is getting at. Not sure John is quite right.

14:30:24 <Zakim> +McCarron

Zakim IRC Bot: +McCarron

14:30:30 <Rich> Mark: capture goes down just above the target.

Mark Birbeck: capture goes down just above the target.

14:31:22 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0012

Steven Pemberton: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0012

14:31:38 <Rich> RESOLUTION: We reject 1 and 3 and will investigate 2 in more detail on 0011

RESOLVED: We reject 1 and 3 and will investigate 2 in more detail on 0011

14:32:06 <Rich> Steven: If and While are xpath expressions

Steven Pemberton: If and While are xpath expressions

14:32:11 <Rich> Mark: Yes

Mark Birbeck: Yes

14:32:34 <Rich> Steven: So it is right that you have to specify how those xpath expressions get eval'd and in what context.

Steven Pemberton: So it is right that you have to specify how those xpath expressions get eval'd and in what context.

14:32:41 <Rich> Mark: We did it that way

Mark Birbeck: We did it that way

14:33:14 <Rich> Mark: Xpath says that part of the function library.

Mark Birbeck: Xpath says that part of the function library.

14:33:25 <Rich> Mark: Not sure this comment is right

Mark Birbeck: Not sure this comment is right

14:33:35 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-events/

Steven Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-events/

14:34:52 <Rich> Steven: This is clearly marked, in red, in the document

Steven Pemberton: This is clearly marked, in red, in the document

14:35:01 <Rich> Steven: the comment is wrong and he has missed something

Steven Pemberton: the comment is wrong and he has missed something

14:35:06 <Rich> Mark: I think so

Mark Birbeck: I think so

14:35:29 <Rich> Mark: the exact point of section 6 is to do what he is asking for

Mark Birbeck: the exact point of section 6 is to do what he is asking for

14:35:42 <Rich> ACTION: Mark to respond to John's comments

ACTION: Mark to respond to John's comments

14:35:45 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0013

Steven Pemberton: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0013

14:37:01 <Rich> RRSAgent, make log member

RRSAgent, make log member

14:37:21 <Rich> Steven: This is like shadow trees

Steven Pemberton: This is like shadow trees

14:37:57 <Rich> Mark: this came up on a call once where John was asserting that the event registration process should happen very early on - prior to the unrolling of the template

Mark Birbeck: this came up on a call once where John was asserting that the event registration process should happen very early on - prior to the unrolling of the template

14:38:09 <Rich> Mark: there is nothing in the event spec. that says this.

Mark Birbeck: there is nothing in the event spec. that says this.

14:38:34 <Rich> Mark: John says you will get these extra events attached.

Mark Birbeck: John says you will get these extra events attached.

14:39:03 <Rich> Steven: This is his problem and not ours as we are mapping to DOM events. XForms has an unusual relationship between the markup and the DOM

Steven Pemberton: This is his problem and not ours as we are mapping to DOM events. XForms has an unusual relationship between the markup and the DOM

14:39:18 <Rich> Steven: XForms needs to define what happens when they use handlers

Steven Pemberton: XForms needs to define what happens when they use handlers

14:39:45 <Rich> Mark: The key thing here:

Mark Birbeck: The key thing here:

14:40:19 <Rich> Mark: in John's comment: Based on having an XML events processor that is distinct from the XForms

Mark Birbeck: in John's comment: Based on having an XML events processor that is distinct from the XForms

14:40:19 <Rich> processor, I think we get both, which is unfortunate.

processor, I think we get both, which is unfortunate.

14:40:55 <Rich> Mark: There is still a bit of a hole. Say it was an instance element. XForms would define the instance element to prohibit further processing

Mark Birbeck: There is still a bit of a hole. Say it was an instance element. XForms would define the instance element to prohibit further processing

14:41:17 <Rich> Mark: XForms should sayt the content model of this element is just straight stuff

Mark Birbeck: XForms should sayt the content model of this element is just straight stuff

14:41:30 <Rich> Mark: We should doing the same thing for repeate and itemset

Mark Birbeck: We should doing the same thing for repeat and itemset

14:41:56 <Rich> Mark: There is a problem but it resides with XForms being clearer on templates

Mark Birbeck: There is a problem but it resides with XForms being clearer on templates

14:42:03 <Rich> s/repeate/repeat/
14:42:09 <Rich> Shane: agree

Shane McCarron: agree

14:42:16 <Rich> Steven: agree

Steven Pemberton: agree

14:42:42 <Rich> Mark: They need to supress the processing until the right time.

Mark Birbeck: They need to supress the processing until the right time.

14:43:07 <Rich> Mark: Our AJAX version would also have this problem

Mark Birbeck: Our AJAX version would also have this problem

14:43:27 <Rich> Mark: Each element processes itself ... I am an input so ...

Mark Birbeck: Each element processes itself ... I am an input so ...

14:44:15 <Rich> RESOLUTION: This is the Forms group's problem and not something XML Events 2 can cope with

RESOLVED: This is the Forms group's problem and not something XML Events 2 can cope with

14:44:43 <Rich> Mark: We need to have itemset and repeat be an instance.

Mark Birbeck: We need to have itemset and repeat be an instance.

14:45:10 <Rich> Topic: Restore hr

5. Restore hr

14:45:19 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/2007/08/22-xhtml-minutes#item06

Steven Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/2007/08/22-xhtml-minutes#item06

14:45:32 <Rich> Shane: I thought we were going to put it in and deprecate it?

Shane McCarron: I thought we were going to put it in and deprecate it?

14:46:06 <Rich> Steven: we have a distinct request from Dan Connelly to keep HR

Steven Pemberton: we have a distinct request from Dan Connelly to keep HR

14:46:16 <Rich> Mark: How do we do that?

Mark Birbeck: How do we do that?

14:46:37 <Rich> Steven: We can say we will keep it, keep/deprecate it, or drop it

Steven Pemberton: We can say we will keep it, keep/deprecate it, or drop it

14:46:42 <oedipus> re: HR - deprecate, deprecate, deprecate; i've asked HTML WG to adopt LS (logical seperator) similar to XHTML2's selector, but was told that is the realm of XHTML2, not HTML

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

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Unknown re: HR - deprecate, deprecate, deprecate; i've asked HTML WG to adopt LS (logical seperator) similar to XHTML2's selector, but was told that is the realm of XHTML2, not HTML [ Scribe Assist by Unknown oedipus ]

14:47:00 <Rich> Shane: We should not remove the legacy module. We keep it in legacy

Shane McCarron: We should not remove the legacy module. We keep it in legacy

14:47:23 <Rich> Steven: We could put profile in legacy as well

Steven Pemberton: We could put profile in legacy as well

14:47:58 <Rich> Steven: like in xhtml 1.0, we created 2.0 and then a 2.1 that dumped things we did not want

Steven Pemberton: like in xhtml 1.0, we created 2.0 and then a 2.1 that dumped things we did not want

14:48:31 <Rich> Steven: this seems to upset Dan and Tim

Steven Pemberton: this seems to upset Dan and Tim

14:48:47 <Rich> Gregory: We should have a logical separator.

Scribe problem: the name 'Gregory' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Gregory: We should have a logical separator.

14:49:16 <Rich> Shane: I reserve the right to craft the text for the HR section

Shane McCarron: I reserve the right to craft the text for the HR section

14:50:11 <oedipus> +1 to put HR in legacy module

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown oedipus: +1 to put HR in legacy module

14:50:30 <Rich> RESOLUTION: Keep HR in the legacy module and make HR deprecated

RESOLVED: Keep HR in the legacy module and make HR deprecated

14:51:49 <Rich> Topic: M12N errata

6. M12N errata

14:52:00 <Rich> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0015

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0015

14:52:33 <Rich> From the link: At

From the link: At

14:52:33 <Rich> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/abstract_modules.html#s_bdomodule

http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/abstract_modules.html#s_bdomodule

14:52:33 <Rich> , the attribute listed as Core mistakenly links to "Common". Also, "bdo"

, the attribute listed as Core mistakenly links to "Common". Also, "bdo"

14:52:33 <Rich> should allow "xml:lang" per the DTD.

should allow "xml:lang" per the DTD.

14:52:50 <Rich> Steven: bdo should have common and not core

Steven Pemberton: bdo should have common and not core

14:52:53 <Rich> Shane: agreed

Shane McCarron: agreed

14:53:11 <Rich> From the link: Also, while XHTML does have facilities already for expressing xml:base

From the link: Also, while XHTML does have facilities already for expressing xml:base

14:53:11 <Rich> and xml:id, would these be reasonable to include in the Core attribute

and xml:id, would these be reasonable to include in the Core attribute

14:53:11 <Rich> collection? (I wouldn't use them myself, nor would anybody need them,

collection? (I wouldn't use them myself, nor would anybody need them,

14:53:11 <Rich> but since they are general purpose for XML...).

but since they are general purpose for XML...).

14:53:11 <oedipus> FYI: URI of my proposal to deprecate HR in HTML5 that resulted in being told to take issue to XHTML2 WG: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Apr/0099.html

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

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Unknown FYI: URI of my proposal to deprecate HR in HTML5 that resulted in being told to take issue to XHTML2 WG: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Apr/0099.html [ Scribe Assist by Unknown oedipus ]

14:53:18 <Rich> Shane: no

Shane McCarron: no

14:53:41 <Rich> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0017

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0017

14:53:52 <Rich> From the link: Under the Legacy module 'notes', next to 'table', 'tr', 'th', and 'td',

From the link: Under the Legacy module 'notes', next to 'table', 'tr', 'th', and 'td',

14:53:52 <Rich> it should, I believe, refer to "Basic Tables", not just "Tables"

it should, I believe, refer to "Basic Tables", not just "Tables"

14:53:52 <Rich> (especially since the 'notes' related to 'forms' do distinguish between

(especially since the 'notes' related to 'forms' do distinguish between

14:53:52 <Rich> the basic and full module.

the basic and full module.

14:54:12 <Rich> Shane: if you happen to turn on legacy you would work

Shane McCarron: if you happen to turn on legacy you would work

14:54:29 <Rich> Steven: on input align gets placed on basic and not forms

Steven Pemberton: on input align gets placed on basic and not forms

14:54:52 <Rich> Steven: legacy is only allowed on the tables module but not on the basic tables module

Steven Pemberton: legacy is only allowed on the tables module but not on the basic tables module

14:54:58 <Rich> Shane: we meant that

Shane McCarron: we meant that

14:55:32 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0009

Steven Pemberton: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0009

14:55:33 <Rich> Topic: Legacy Module

7. Legacy Module

14:55:56 <Rich> Steven: This person wants to add stuff to the legacy module

Steven Pemberton: This person wants to add stuff to the legacy module

14:56:05 <Rich> Steven: We can't do that at this time.

Steven Pemberton: We can't do that at this time.

14:56:13 <Rich> Shane: agreed

Shane McCarron: agreed

14:56:26 <Rich> Shane: It may just work but this is not the object of 1.1

Shane McCarron: It may just work but this is not the object of 1.1

14:56:57 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0009

Steven Pemberton: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0009

14:57:06 <Rich> Topic: @Talign (erratum)

8. @Talign (erratum)

14:57:37 <Rich> Steven: this is cruft in the dtd and we should not worry about it

Steven Pemberton: this is cruft in the dtd and we should not worry about it

14:57:48 <Rich> Steven: This is on HTML 4

Steven Pemberton: This is on HTML 4

14:58:00 <Rich> Shane: This is not our problem

Shane McCarron: This is not our problem

14:58:09 <Rich> RESOLUTION: This is not our problem

RESOLVED: This is not our problem

14:58:20 <Zakim> -McCarron

Zakim IRC Bot: -McCarron

14:58:21 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Gregory_Rosmaita

14:58:23 <Zakim> -markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: -markbirbeck

14:58:27 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven

14:58:29 <Zakim> -yamx

Scribe problem: the name 'yamx' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -yamx

14:58:46 <yamx> I will send a regret for next week, I will be on the road from Regensburg to Munich, somewhere in Germany.

Scribe problem: the name 'yamx' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'yamx' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown yamx: I will send a regret for next week, I will be on the road from Regensburg to Munich, somewhere in Germany.

14:59:04 <Steven> ok

Steven Pemberton: ok

14:59:11 <Steven> zakim, who is here?

Steven Pemberton: zakim, who is here?

14:59:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see Rich

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Rich

14:59:18 <Steven> zakim, drop rich

Steven Pemberton: zakim, drop rich

14:59:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see markbirbeck, oedipus, Zakim, RRSAgent, Steven, yamx, myakura, krijnh

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see markbirbeck, oedipus, Zakim, RRSAgent, Steven, yamx, myakura, krijnh

14:59:23 <Zakim> Rich is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: Rich is being disconnected

14:59:25 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()10:00AM has ended

14:59:29 <Zakim> Attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven, yamx, markbirbeck, [IBM], Rich, McCarron

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven, yamx, markbirbeck, [IBM], Rich, McCarron

14:59:31 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, make minutes

14:59:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/29-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/29-xhtml-minutes.html Steven



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