edit

SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 08 February 2011

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2011-02-08
Seen
Alexandre Passant, Andy Seaborne, Axel Polleres, Birte Glimm, Carlos Buil Aranda, Chimezie Ogbuji, Gregory Williams, Lee Feigenbaum, Matthew Perry, Nicholas Humfrey, Olivier Corby, Paula Gearon, Sandro Hawke, Steve Harris
Regrets
Chimezie Ogbuji, Axel Polleres, Olivier Corby
Chair
Lee Feigenbaum
Scribe
Matthew Perry
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-01-25 link
  2. Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-02-01 link
  3. Close ISSUE-52 (http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/52http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/52) with no change link
Topics
14:59:21 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/08-sparql-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/08-sparql-irc

14:59:23 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:59:25 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277

14:59:25 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute

14:59:26 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:59:26 <trackbot> Date: 08 February 2011
14:59:33 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SPARQL

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, this will be SPARQL

14:59:33 <Zakim> ok, LeeF, I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM already started

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, LeeF, I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM already started

14:59:35 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?

Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone?

14:59:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P4, +1.603.897.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P4, +1.603.897.aaaa

14:59:44 <AndyS> zakim, ??P4 is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P4 is me

14:59:44 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

14:59:52 <MattPerry> zakim, aaaa is me

Matthew Perry: zakim, aaaa is me

14:59:52 <Zakim> +MattPerry; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry; got it

14:59:54 <Zakim> + +1.310.729.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.310.729.aabb

15:00:00 <Zakim> + +44.186.528.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.186.528.aacc

15:00:01 <kasei> Zakim, aabb is me

Gregory Williams: Zakim, aabb is me

15:00:04 <Zakim> +kasei; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei; got it

15:00:06 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum

Zakim IRC Bot: +Lee_Feigenbaum

15:00:11 <bglimm> Zakim, +44.186.528.aacc is me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, +44.186.528.aacc is me

15:00:14 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm; got it

15:00:29 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me

15:00:29 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted

15:00:39 <Zakim> + +44.208.439.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.208.439.aadd

15:00:48 <SteveH_> Zakim, aadd is [Garlik]

Steve Harris: Zakim, aadd is [Garlik]

15:00:48 <Zakim> +[Garlik]; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +[Garlik]; got it

15:00:48 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
15:00:53 <LeeF> Scribenick: MattPerry

(Scribe set to Matthew Perry)

15:00:54 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

15:00:55 <SteveH_> Zakim, [Garlik] is temporarily me

Steve Harris: Zakim, [Garlik] is temporarily me

15:00:55 <Zakim> +SteveH_; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH_; got it

15:01:04 <cbuilara> zakim, IPcaller is me

Carlos Buil Aranda: zakim, IPcaller is me

15:01:04 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cbuilara; got it

15:01:30 <Zakim> +pgearon

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon

15:02:10 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the phone?

15:02:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, MattPerry, kasei, bglimm (muted), Lee_Feigenbaum, SteveH_, cbuilara, pgearon

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AndyS, MattPerry, kasei, bglimm (muted), Lee_Feigenbaum, SteveH_, cbuilara, pgearon

15:02:23 <LeeF> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2011-02-08
15:02:34 <LeeF> Regrets: Chimezie, Axel, Olivier
15:03:14 <Zakim> +??P22

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22

15:03:32 <NickH> zakim, ??P22 is me

Nicholas Humfrey: zakim, ??P22 is me

15:03:32 <Zakim> +NickH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +NickH; got it

15:03:43 <LeeF> topic: Admin

1. Admin

15:03:49 <Zakim> + +3539149aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +3539149aaee

15:03:52 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-01-25

PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-01-25

15:03:52 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-02-01

PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-02-01

15:03:54 <AlexPassant> Zakim, +3539149aaee is me

Alexandre Passant: Zakim, +3539149aaee is me

15:03:55 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexPassant; got it

15:04:55 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-01-25

RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-01-25

15:05:01 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-02-01

RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-02-01

15:05:14 <LeeF> Next regular meeting: 2011-02-15 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: SteveH)

Lee Feigenbaum: Next regular meeting: 2011-02-15 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: SteveH)

15:05:53 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments

Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments

15:05:56 <MattPerry> Topic: comments

2. comments

15:06:22 <MattPerry> LeeF: mainly administrative tasks today

Lee Feigenbaum: mainly administrative tasks today

15:07:29 <MattPerry> LeeF: Chime and Lee to work with on dataset protocol comments

Lee Feigenbaum: Chime and Lee to work with on dataset protocol comments

15:07:50 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

15:08:01 <kasei> q+

Gregory Williams: q+

15:08:06 <LeeF> ack kasei

Lee Feigenbaum: ack kasei

15:08:06 <MattPerry> LeeF: does anyone not want to proceede with dataset protocol specification?

Lee Feigenbaum: does anyone not want to proceede with dataset protocol specification?

15:08:25 <AndyS> I think we *should* proceed with that doc.

Andy Seaborne: I think we *should* proceed with that doc.

15:08:55 <MattPerry> kasei: I'm not opposed to publishing it, but there are some complexity issues

Gregory Williams: I'm not opposed to publishing it, but there are some complexity issues

15:09:17 <MattPerry> LeeF: reviewers are Andy, Steve and Nick

Lee Feigenbaum: reviewers are Andy, Steve and Nick

15:09:48 <NickH> I am going to get my comments to the list today

Nicholas Humfrey: I am going to get my comments to the list today

15:09:50 <MattPerry> LeeF: more targeted comments are helpful

Lee Feigenbaum: more targeted comments are helpful

15:10:22 <NickH> I support the publishing of the SPARQL 1.1 RDF Dataset HTTP Protocol

Nicholas Humfrey: I support the publishing of the SPARQL 1.1 RDF Dataset HTTP Protocol

15:11:08 <MattPerry> LeeF: Jeen Brokestra posted feedback on implementing SPARQL 1.1

Lee Feigenbaum: Jeen Brokestra posted feedback on implementing SPARQL 1.1

15:11:09 <kasei> Jeen's email did reach the comments list

Gregory Williams: Jeen's email did reach the comments list

15:11:28 <Zakim> -pgearon

Zakim IRC Bot: -pgearon

15:12:05 <Zakim> +pgearon

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon

15:12:12 <MattPerry> LeeF: Andy, Steve looked at post?

Lee Feigenbaum: Andy, Steve looked at post?

15:12:32 <MattPerry> AndyS: did look at it briefly ... comments are pretty high level

Andy Seaborne: did look at it briefly ... comments are pretty high level

15:12:50 <MattPerry> AndyS: may want to ask for more specific comments

Andy Seaborne: may want to ask for more specific comments

15:12:59 <kasei> I think giving Jeen a concrete example of where MINUS and NOT EXISTS give different answers would help.

Gregory Williams: I think giving Jeen a concrete example of where MINUS and NOT EXISTS give different answers would help.

15:13:16 <AndyS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Feb/0004.html

Andy Seaborne: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Feb/0004.html

15:13:23 <MattPerry> SteveH: I look more closely at the aggregates comments

Steve Harris: I look more closely at the aggregates comments

15:14:02 <MattPerry> SteveH: I [will] look more closely

Steve Harris: I [will] look more closely

15:14:17 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Jan/0029.html

Lee Feigenbaum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Jan/0029.html

15:14:36 <MattPerry> LeeF: has Greg been able to look at this comment

Lee Feigenbaum: has Greg been able to look at this comment

15:15:03 <MattPerry> kasei: did look at it will depend on interaction between dataset protocol and service description

Gregory Williams: did look at it will depend on interaction between dataset protocol and service description

15:16:04 <AndyS> Jeen has already commented on MINUS in JB-2  That part is a dup and Axel is down to reply.

Andy Seaborne: Jeen has already commented on MINUS in JB-2 That part is a dup and Axel is down to reply.

15:16:41 <MattPerry> LeeF: that's all the unassigned comments

Lee Feigenbaum: that's all the unassigned comments

15:16:57 <MattPerry> LeeF: we have a few comments that have been recently addressed

Lee Feigenbaum: we have a few comments that have been recently addressed

15:17:03 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

15:17:29 <LeeF> ack AndyS

Lee Feigenbaum: ack AndyS

15:18:10 <MattPerry> AndyS: Jeen has comments already that cover most of his post

Andy Seaborne: Jeen has comments already that cover most of his post

15:18:31 <MattPerry> AndyS: Axel has the Minus comment

Andy Seaborne: Axel has the Minus comment

15:18:49 <LeeF> topic: To Last Call

3. To Last Call

15:19:06 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/To_Last_Call

Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/To_Last_Call

15:19:30 <MattPerry> LeeF: Query has had some progress

Lee Feigenbaum: Query has had some progress

15:19:54 <kasei> I'm editing to add new blocking issue on SD around the sd:url discussion.

Gregory Williams: I'm editing to add new blocking issue on SD around the sd:url discussion.

15:20:09 <MattPerry> AndyS: need some text in each document that points to the overview document or the list of documents

Andy Seaborne: need some text in each document that points to the overview document or the list of documents

15:21:02 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/SPARQL_Namespaces

Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/SPARQL_Namespaces

15:21:27 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/ns/sparql#

Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/ns/sparql#

15:21:30 <MattPerry> LeeF: Greg put this page together that lists new URIs defined ... these need to go into the namespaces document

Lee Feigenbaum: Greg put this page together that lists new URIs defined ... these need to go into the namespaces document

15:21:57 <MattPerry> LeeF: Sandro can you do it?

Lee Feigenbaum: Sandro can you do it?

15:22:02 <MattPerry> Sandro: Yes I can

Sandro Hawke: Yes I can

15:22:22 <LeeF> ACTION: Sandro to update sparql namespace document with URIs for existing & new functions and aggregates as per http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/SPARQL_Namespaces

ACTION: Sandro to update sparql namespace document with URIs for existing & new functions and aggregates as per http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/SPARQL_Namespaces

15:22:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-389 - Update sparql namespace document with URIs for existing & new functions and aggregates as per http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/SPARQL_Namespaces [on Sandro Hawke - due 2011-02-15].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-389 - Update sparql namespace document with URIs for existing & new functions and aggregates as per http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/SPARQL_Namespaces [on Sandro Hawke - due 2011-02-15].

15:23:01 <MattPerry> LeeF: there are still some minor editorial work in query

Lee Feigenbaum: there are still some minor editorial work in query

15:23:12 <MattPerry> AndyS: Property Path issues still need to be sorted out

Andy Seaborne: Property Path issues still need to be sorted out

15:23:37 <MattPerry> AndyS: I will propose a change to reflect Matt's comment on node marking vs edge marking

Andy Seaborne: I will propose a change to reflect Matt's comment on node marking vs edge marking

15:23:57 <MattPerry> AndyS: has to do with test results

Andy Seaborne: has to do with test results

15:24:19 <MattPerry> LeeF: do we need a working group decision

Lee Feigenbaum: do we need a working group decision

15:24:23 <MattPerry> AndyS: probably

Andy Seaborne: probably

15:24:46 <MattPerry> AndyS: could start reviewing the stable parts of the doc now

Andy Seaborne: could start reviewing the stable parts of the doc now

15:25:15 <MattPerry> SteveH: Andy is right ... the doc is very large ... what sections?

Steve Harris: Andy is right ... the doc is very large ... what sections?

15:25:40 <MattPerry> AndyS: Section in formal algebra is only one affected by Property Paths issue

Andy Seaborne: Section in formal algebra is only one affected by Property Paths issue

15:25:59 <MattPerry> LeeF: can we enumerate the parts to be avoided?

Lee Feigenbaum: can we enumerate the parts to be avoided?

15:26:16 <MattPerry> AndyS: review every section except 18

Andy Seaborne: review every section except 18

15:26:53 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

15:26:54 <MattPerry> SteveH: will change non-alebra part of aggregates

Steve Harris: will change non-algebra part of aggregates

15:27:14 <MattPerry> LeeF: This is section 11

Lee Feigenbaum: This is section 11

15:27:18 <Zakim> +??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1

15:27:24 <MattPerry> s/alebra/algebra
15:27:30 <AndyS> zakim, ??P1 is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P1 is me

15:27:30 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

15:27:34 <AndyS> ArbitraryLengthPath and ZeroLengthPath are areas of possible change

Andy Seaborne: ArbitraryLengthPath and ZeroLengthPath are areas of possible change

15:27:44 <AndyS> (defn and eval)

Andy Seaborne: (defn and eval)

15:27:52 <MattPerry> LeeF: will leave it up to reviewers to decide if they want to review it now

Lee Feigenbaum: will leave it up to reviewers to decide if they want to review it now

15:28:24 <MattPerry> LeeF: see one editorial change in Update and some comments around formal model

Lee Feigenbaum: see one editorial change in Update and some comments around formal model

15:28:25 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the call?

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the call?

15:28:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see MattPerry, kasei, bglimm (muted), Lee_Feigenbaum, SteveH_, cbuilara, NickH, AlexPassant, Sandro, pgearon, AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see MattPerry, kasei, bglimm (muted), Lee_Feigenbaum, SteveH_, cbuilara, NickH, AlexPassant, Sandro, pgearon, AndyS

15:29:04 <MattPerry> LeeF: what is the status of the formal model?

Lee Feigenbaum: what is the status of the formal model?

15:29:18 <MattPerry> AlexPassant: We are fixing the model now based on comments

Alexandre Passant: We are fixing the model now based on comments

15:29:44 <MattPerry> AlexPassant: Hoping to have a draft by the end of the week

Alexandre Passant: Hoping to have a draft by the end of the week

15:30:33 <MattPerry> LeeF: will sequence of operations bit be in the draft?

Lee Feigenbaum: will sequence of operations bit be in the draft?

15:30:34 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0353.html

Lee Feigenbaum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0353.html

15:30:38 <MattPerry> AlexPassant: yes

Alexandre Passant: yes

15:31:10 <MattPerry> LeeF: Progress on Protocol?

Lee Feigenbaum: Progress on Protocol?

15:31:47 <MattPerry> LeeF: Service Description is basically finished

Lee Feigenbaum: Service Description is basically finished

15:32:14 <MattPerry> LeeF: any issues in Service Description that need working group time?

Lee Feigenbaum: any issues in Service Description that need working group time?

15:33:00 <MattPerry> kasei: issue of wether or not to add dataset protocol stuff to it

Gregory Williams: issue of wether or not to add dataset protocol stuff to it

15:33:40 <kasei> I should say that the one issue I added to the last call page for SD doesn't depend on the dataset protocol issue (I don't think)

Gregory Williams: I should say that the one issue I added to the last call page for SD doesn't depend on the dataset protocol issue (I don't think)

15:34:04 <MattPerry> LeeF: some discussion with Kendall about Entailment review

Lee Feigenbaum: some discussion with Kendall about Entailment review

15:34:33 <Zakim> + +539149aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: + +539149aaff

15:34:41 <AlexPassant> Zakim, +539149aaff is me

Alexandre Passant: Zakim, +539149aaff is me

15:34:41 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexPassant; got it

15:34:52 <bglimm> I didn't yet succeed to convince somebody from our group to do another review

Birte Glimm: I didn't yet succeed to convince somebody from our group to do another review

15:34:56 <MattPerry> MattPerry: have some comments from Zhe Wu that I will send out

Matthew Perry: have some comments from Zhe Wu that I will send out

15:36:10 <MattPerry> topic: Test Status

4. Test Status

15:36:39 <MattPerry> LeeF: I have reviewed select expression tests

Lee Feigenbaum: I have reviewed select expression tests

15:37:51 <LeeF> topic: Action round-up

5. Action round-up

15:38:01 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/open

Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/open

15:38:30 <Zakim> -AlexPassant

Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexPassant

15:38:52 <MattPerry> LeeF: will go through actions quickly ... stop me if we need to discuss anything

Lee Feigenbaum: will go through actions quickly ... stop me if we need to discuss anything

15:39:32 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-291

Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, close ACTION-291

15:39:33 <trackbot> ACTION-291 Work MIME type registration information into SPARQL Update document based on Sandro's suggestion for formatting etc. closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-291 Work MIME type registration information into SPARQL Update document based on Sandro's suggestion for formatting etc. closed

15:41:35 <MattPerry> LeeF: Text needed in member submission for update to say it is not the standard

Lee Feigenbaum: Text needed in member submission for update to say it is not the standard

15:41:38 <LeeF>  ACTION-296: Take a look at OWL 1.1 documents for example text

Lee Feigenbaum: ACTION-296: Take a look at OWL 1.1 documents for example text

15:41:38 <trackbot> ACTION-296 to suggest a wording for a disclaimer text for the SPARQL update member submission notes added

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-296 to suggest a wording for a disclaimer text for the SPARQL update member submission notes added

15:42:42 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-345

Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, close ACTION-345

15:42:42 <trackbot> ACTION-345 Check example in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/xmlspec.xml#id0x278d4530 closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-345 Check example in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/xmlspec.xml#id0x278d4530 closed

15:43:20 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-354

Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, close ACTION-354

15:43:20 <trackbot> ACTION-354 Wiki-to-last-call doc regarding update closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-354 Wiki-to-last-call doc regarding update closed

15:43:37 <kasei> that's done

Gregory Williams: that's done

15:43:43 <kasei> 356

Gregory Williams: 356

15:43:58 <kasei> I've completed ACTION-370 on function tests.

Gregory Williams: I've completed ACTION-370 on function tests.

15:44:39 <MattPerry> My property path action is pending resolution of the property path semantics issue

My property path action is pending resolution of the property path semantics issue

15:44:54 <MattPerry> kasei: I have looked at tests and agree with them

Gregory Williams: I have looked at tests and agree with them

15:45:02 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-370

Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, close ACTION-370

15:45:02 <trackbot> ACTION-370 Look at function tests closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-370 Look at function tests closed

15:45:22 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-374

Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, close ACTION-374

15:45:22 <trackbot> ACTION-374 Look at projected expression tests closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-374 Look at projected expression tests closed

15:45:29 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-375

Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, close ACTION-375

15:45:29 <trackbot> ACTION-375 Look at CONSTRUCT WHERE tests closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-375 Look at CONSTRUCT WHERE tests closed

15:46:39 <LeeF> topic: Issues round-up

6. Issues round-up

15:46:41 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/open

Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/open

15:46:48 <Zakim> +bglimm.a

Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm.a

15:46:56 <MattPerry> LeeF: Security issues in update

Lee Feigenbaum: Security issues in update

15:46:59 <bglimm> Zakim, +member:bglimm.a is me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, +member:bglimm.a is me

15:46:59 <Zakim> sorry, bglimm, I do not recognize a party named '+member:bglimm.a'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, bglimm, I do not recognize a party named '+member:bglimm.a'

15:47:07 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml#security

Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml#security

15:47:19 <bglimm> Zakim, member:bglimm.a is  me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, member:bglimm.a is me

15:47:19 <Zakim> sorry, bglimm, I do not recognize a party named 'member:bglimm.a'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, bglimm, I do not recognize a party named 'member:bglimm.a'

15:47:27 <bglimm> Zakim, a is me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, a is me

15:47:27 <Zakim> sorry, bglimm, I do not recognize a party named 'a'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, bglimm, I do not recognize a party named 'a'

15:47:29 <MattPerry> LeeF: should leave issue open until doc has been reviewed

Lee Feigenbaum: should leave issue open until doc has been reviewed

15:48:06 <MattPerry> LeeF: Issue 52: availability of unnamed graph in service description

Lee Feigenbaum: ISSUE-52: availability of unnamed graph in service description

15:48:24 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me

15:48:24 <Zakim> bglimm was already muted, bglimm

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm was already muted, bglimm

15:48:29 <MattPerry> kasei: I don't think this is really an issue

Gregory Williams: I don't think this is really an issue

15:48:41 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-52 with no change

PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-52 with no change

15:48:42 <MattPerry> LeeF: I agree ... any concerns with closing issue

Lee Feigenbaum: I agree ... any concerns with closing issue

15:48:45 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/52

Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/52

15:48:53 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-52 (http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/52http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/52) with no change

PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-52 (http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/52http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/52) with no change

15:49:08 <kasei> +1

Gregory Williams: +1

15:49:19 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-52 (http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/52http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/52) with no change

RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-52 (http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/52http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/52) with no change

15:49:26 <Zakim> -bglimm

Zakim IRC Bot: -bglimm

15:49:26 <LeeF> trackbot, close ISSUE-52

Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, close ISSUE-52

15:49:26 <trackbot> ISSUE-52 Do we need the availability of an unnamed graph in SD? closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-52 Do we need the availability of an unnamed graph in SD? closed

15:49:59 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

15:50:08 <LeeF> ack AndyS

Lee Feigenbaum: ack AndyS

15:50:10 <MattPerry> LeeF: Issue 65 needs some discussion

Lee Feigenbaum: ISSUE-65 needs some discussion

15:50:17 <MattPerry> AndyS: can we close Issue 58

Andy Seaborne: can we close ISSUE-58

15:50:52 <LeeF>  ISSUE-58: Update document has registration information; registration process being tracked via actions

Lee Feigenbaum: ISSUE-58: Update document has registration information; registration process being tracked via actions

15:50:52 <trackbot> ISSUE-58 Register a MIME type for SPARQL Update requests? notes added

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-58 Register a MIME type for SPARQL Update requests? notes added

15:50:57 <LeeF> trackbot, close ISSUE-58

Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, close ISSUE-58

15:50:57 <trackbot> ISSUE-58 Register a MIME type for SPARQL Update requests? closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-58 Register a MIME type for SPARQL Update requests? closed

15:51:03 <AndyS> BTW - wasn't the extension going to be ".ru" - for RDf update c.f .rq redf query.  Says ".ud"

Andy Seaborne: BTW - wasn't the extension going to be ".ru" - for RDf update c.f .rq redf query. Says ".ud"

15:51:23 <LeeF> Next week: talk about ISSUE-65 during teleconference

Lee Feigenbaum: Next week: talk about ISSUE-65 during teleconference

15:51:53 <MattPerry> pgearon: I can change the extension in the doc

Paula Gearon: I can change the extension in the doc

15:52:52 <MattPerry> LeeF: valuable to for someone to summarize discussion of service vs graph store vs ... on the mailing list

Lee Feigenbaum: valuable to for someone to summarize discussion of service vs graph store vs ... on the mailing list

15:53:34 <MattPerry> AndyS: one of the issues is naming

Andy Seaborne: one of the issues is naming

15:54:15 <LeeF> AndyS: RDF Dataset HTTP Protocol says that doing a GET on a graph store URI returns the service description

Andy Seaborne: RDF Dataset HTTP Protocol says that doing a GET on a graph store URI returns the service description [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:55:26 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/http-rdf-update/#http-option

Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/http-rdf-update/#http-option

15:55:29 <MattPerry> LeeF: is this Section 5.8 in the doc?

Lee Feigenbaum: is this Section 5.8 in the doc?

15:55:47 <MattPerry> AndyS: yes

Andy Seaborne: yes

15:56:29 <MattPerry> LeeF: a GET on the endpoing gets the service description

Lee Feigenbaum: a GET on the endpoing gets the service description

15:56:48 <MattPerry> LeeF: there is confusion about whether or not that is the graph store URI

Lee Feigenbaum: there is confusion about whether or not that is the graph store URI

15:57:27 <kasei> this section 5.8 is a surprise to me.

Gregory Williams: this section 5.8 is a surprise to me.

15:57:44 <kasei> "Per section 2 of SPARQL 1.1 Service Descriptions, ..." doesn't seem relevant here.

Gregory Williams: "Per section 2 of SPARQL 1.1 Service Descriptions, ..." doesn't seem relevant here.

15:57:52 <MattPerry> LeeF: is there somewhere that talks about doing a GET on a graph store URI

Lee Feigenbaum: is there somewhere that talks about doing a GET on a graph store URI

15:58:04 <MattPerry> LeeF: do we talk about graph store URI vs service URI

Lee Feigenbaum: do we talk about graph store URI vs service URI

15:58:34 <MattPerry> AndyS: will send some more email

Andy Seaborne: will send some more email

15:59:22 <MattPerry> kasei: depends on which "service" you are talking about

Gregory Williams: depends on which "service" you are talking about

15:59:53 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/http-rdf-update/#indirect-graph-identification

Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/http-rdf-update/#indirect-graph-identification

16:00:03 <LeeF>  GET /rdf-graphs/employees?graph=http%3A//www.example.com/other/graph HTTP/1.1

Lee Feigenbaum: GET /rdf-graphs/employees?graph=http%3A//www.example.com/other/graph HTTP/1.1

16:00:47 <MattPerry> LeeF:  /rdf-graphs/employees?graph is ambiguous

Lee Feigenbaum: /rdf-graphs/employees?graph is ambiguous

16:01:02 <LeeF>   GET /rdf-graphs/services

Lee Feigenbaum: GET /rdf-graphs/services

16:01:14 <LeeF> """

Lee Feigenbaum: """

16:01:15 <LeeF> http://www.example.com/rdf-graphs/services identifies the HTTP service that implements this protocol. In order to dispatch requests to manage named or default graphs by embedding them in the query component of the service URL, the service URL will need to be known a priori. As will be discussed later in this document, both HTTP OPTIONS and GET requests can be sent to the service and the the

Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.example.com/rdf-graphs/services identifies the HTTP service that implements this protocol. In order to dispatch requests to manage named or default graphs by embedding them in the query component of the service URL, the service URL will need to be known a priori. As will be discussed later in this document, both HTTP OPTIONS and GET requests can be sent to the service and the the

16:01:15 <LeeF> response to such a request is a representation of a service description

Lee Feigenbaum: response to such a request is a representation of a service description

16:01:16 <LeeF> """

Lee Feigenbaum: """

16:02:42 <Zakim> -Lee_Feigenbaum

Zakim IRC Bot: -Lee_Feigenbaum

16:02:45 <NickH> Thanks LeeF!

Nicholas Humfrey: Thanks LeeF!

16:02:47 <Zakim> -SteveH_

Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH_

16:02:49 <Zakim> -AlexPassant

Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexPassant

16:02:51 <Zakim> -bglimm

Zakim IRC Bot: -bglimm

16:02:53 <Zakim> -MattPerry

Zakim IRC Bot: -MattPerry

16:02:57 <Zakim> -cbuilara

Zakim IRC Bot: -cbuilara

16:02:59 <Zakim> -kasei

Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei

16:03:01 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

16:03:09 <Zakim> -pgearon

Zakim IRC Bot: -pgearon

16:03:16 <Zakim> -NickH

Zakim IRC Bot: -NickH

16:03:19 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

16:03:21 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended

16:03:23 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.603.897.aaaa, AndyS, MattPerry, +1.310.729.aabb, kasei, Lee_Feigenbaum, bglimm, +44.208.439.aadd, SteveH_, cbuilara, pgearon, NickH, AlexPassant, Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +1.603.897.aaaa, AndyS, MattPerry, +1.310.729.aabb, kasei, Lee_Feigenbaum, bglimm, +44.208.439.aadd, SteveH_, cbuilara, pgearon, NickH, AlexPassant, Sandro

16:03:40 <LeeF> I see that in the POST section (5.4), the document talks about posting to the Graph Store URI

Lee Feigenbaum: I see that in the POST section (5.4), the document talks about posting to the Graph Store URI

16:04:50 <LeeF> I don't see anything else in the document that talks about the URI of a Graph Store at all

Lee Feigenbaum: I don't see anything else in the document that talks about the URI of a Graph Store at all

16:17:37 <kasei> can anyone glance over a MINUS vs. NOT EXISTS example for me?

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Gregory Williams: can anyone glance over a MINUS vs. NOT EXISTS example for me?

16:17:50 <kasei> wanted a simple example to send along to Jeen

Gregory Williams: wanted a simple example to send along to Jeen

16:22:01 <kasei> http://pastebin.com/X4r4K7sh (think, but not entirely sure, that this is correct)

Gregory Williams: http://pastebin.com/X4r4K7sh (think, but not entirely sure, that this is correct)

16:24:18 <LeeF> "a simple example" hah!

Lee Feigenbaum: "a simple example" hah!

16:27:48 <kasei> well, simple-ish :)

Gregory Williams: well, simple-ish :)

16:27:59 <kasei> the simplest case I could come up with that shows a difference.

Gregory Williams: the simplest case I could come up with that shows a difference.

16:34:19 <SteveH> { ?x ?y ?z } MINUS { ?a ?b ?c } and { ?x ?y ?z } FILTER( NOT EXISTS { ?a ?b ?c } ) are different

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Steve Harris: { ?x ?y ?z } MINUS { ?a ?b ?c } and { ?x ?y ?z } FILTER( NOT EXISTS { ?a ?b ?c } ) are different

16:34:39 <SteveH> it depends on what your expectation of the operation is, e.g. binding v's non binding

Steve Harris: it depends on what your expectation of the operation is, e.g. binding v's non binding

16:34:48 <kasei> true. this is specifically to address Jeen's claim that they are the same when they have shared variables, though.

Gregory Williams: true. this is specifically to address Jeen's claim that they are the same when they have shared variables, though.

16:34:54 <kasei> sorry, should have mentioned that.

Gregory Williams: sorry, should have mentioned that.

16:35:09 <kasei> so, simplest case with shared variables.

Gregory Williams: so, simplest case with shared variables.

16:35:43 <SteveH> ah, sure

Steve Harris: ah, sure

16:35:43 <SteveH> mn, m memory not doing well :)

Steve Harris: mn, m memory not doing well :)

16:36:52 <SteveH> I think that's a relative simple example...

Steve Harris: I think that's a relative simple example...

16:37:15 <SteveH> ...and FILTER NOT EXISTS still messes with my head

Steve Harris: ...and FILTER NOT EXISTS still messes with my head

16:37:43 <kasei> heh

Gregory Williams: heh

16:39:19 <SteveH> kasei, are you sure that ?n is in scope there?

Steve Harris: kasei, are you sure that ?n is in scope there?

16:39:36 <kasei> where?

Gregory Williams: where?

16:39:57 <kasei> in the MINUS?

Gregory Williams: in the MINUS?

16:40:15 <SteveH> I'm not sure that it isn't FWIW

Steve Harris: I'm not sure that it isn't FWIW

16:40:23 <kasei> no, and that's exactly the point.

Gregory Williams: no, and that's exactly the point.

16:40:30 <SteveH> ah, I see

Steve Harris: ah, I see

16:40:54 <SteveH> ah, gotcha, I misread the data

Steve Harris: ah, gotcha, I misread the data

20:03:27 <AndyS> kasei, like the example - wonder if the filter/scope example is worth putting in the doc.

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Andy Seaborne: kasei, like the example - wonder if the filter/scope example is worth putting in the doc.

20:04:29 <AndyS> I think the important point is that it reflects different ways of thinking about negation - not one can do more or less than the other

Andy Seaborne: I think the important point is that it reflects different ways of thinking about negation - not one can do more or less than the other

20:25:22 <SteveH> +1

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Steve Harris: +1

20:28:09 <AndyS> @@/not critical for LC (actually a tad difficult to avoid for LC :-(

Andy Seaborne: @@/not critical for LC (actually a tad difficult to avoid for LC :-(



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