14:51:22 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/12/07-sparql-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/12/07-sparql-irc ←
14:51:31 <AxelPolleres> trackbot, this will be sparql
Axel Polleres: trackbot, this will be sparql ←
14:51:31 <trackbot> Sorry, AxelPolleres, I don't understand 'trackbot, this will be sparql'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, AxelPolleres, I don't understand 'trackbot, this will be sparql'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help ←
14:51:51 <AxelPolleres> zakim, this will be SPARQL
Axel Polleres: zakim, this will be SPARQL ←
14:51:51 <Zakim> ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 9 minutes ←
14:52:01 <AxelPolleres> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-12-07
14:52:45 <AxelPolleres> (don't get schocked by the agenda updates, top list of topics remained the same, just tried to add links to latest mails for reference)
Axel Polleres: (don't get schocked by the agenda updates, top list of topics remained the same, just tried to add links to latest mails for reference) ←
14:57:46 <LeeF> trackbot, start meeting
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, start meeting ←
14:57:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:57:50 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277 ←
14:57:50 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes ←
14:57:51 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:57:51 <trackbot> Date: 07 December 2010
14:57:54 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SPARQL
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, this will be SPARQL ←
14:57:54 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes ←
14:58:02 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started ←
14:58:10 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres
Zakim IRC Bot: +AxelPolleres ←
14:58:16 <Zakim> +LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF ←
14:59:02 <Zakim> +SteveH
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH ←
14:59:24 <Zakim> +kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei ←
14:59:54 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
15:00:31 <Zakim> +Chimezie_Ogbuji
Zakim IRC Bot: +Chimezie_Ogbuji ←
15:00:42 <Zakim> +MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry ←
15:01:12 <AndyS> Booting up ...
Andy Seaborne: Booting up ... ←
15:01:20 <AxelPolleres> alright...
Axel Polleres: alright... ←
15:01:58 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:01:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see AxelPolleres, LeeF, SteveH, kasei, Sandro, Chimezie_Ogbuji, MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AxelPolleres, LeeF, SteveH, kasei, Sandro, Chimezie_Ogbuji, MattPerry ←
15:02:40 <AndyS> zakim, get a move on
Andy Seaborne: zakim, get a move on ←
15:02:40 <Zakim> I don't understand 'get a move on', AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'get a move on', AndyS ←
15:03:01 <AxelPolleres> scribe: Chime
(Scribe set to Chimezie Ogbuji)
15:03:14 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:03:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see AxelPolleres, LeeF, SteveH, kasei, Sandro, Chimezie_Ogbuji, MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AxelPolleres, LeeF, SteveH, kasei, Sandro, Chimezie_Ogbuji, MattPerry ←
15:03:23 <Zakim> +??P25
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P25 ←
15:03:42 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, ??P25 is Souri
Axel Polleres: Zakim, ??P25 is Souri ←
15:03:42 <Zakim> +Souri; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Souri; got it ←
15:03:48 <Zakim> +??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21 ←
15:03:54 <AndyS> zakim, ??P21 is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P21 is me ←
15:03:54 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
15:04:18 <chimezie> LeeF: want to finish functional libraries discussion
Lee Feigenbaum: want to finish functional libraries discussion ←
15:04:24 <AxelPolleres> topic: admin
15:04:37 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-11-30
PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-11-30 ←
15:05:07 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-11-30
RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-11-30 ←
15:05:14 <Zakim> +pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon ←
15:05:17 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
Zakim, mute me ←
15:05:17 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted ←
15:05:49 <chimezie> AxelPolleres: New comment from David Beckett
Axel Polleres: New comment from David Beckett ←
15:05:58 <chimezie> ... Carlos volunteered to draft reply
... Carlos volunteered to draft reply ←
15:05:59 <SteveH> I can reply to dave
Steve Harris: I can reply to dave ←
15:06:03 <SteveH> it's mostly about my stuff
Steve Harris: it's mostly about my stuff ←
15:06:34 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: SteveH draft reply to Dave Beckett's comment
ACTION: SteveH draft reply to Dave Beckett's comment ←
15:06:34 <trackbot> Created ACTION-340 - Draft reply to Dave Beckett's comment [on Steve Harris - due 2010-12-14].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-340 - Draft reply to Dave Beckett's comment [on Steve Harris - due 2010-12-14]. ←
15:07:16 <AxelPolleres> topic: function library
15:07:58 <chimezie> AxelPolleres: piped literals v.s. plain literals for arguments in return types
Axel Polleres: typed literals v.s. plain literals for arguments in return types ←
15:08:18 <SteveH> +1 to s/LENGTH/STRLEN/g
Steve Harris: +1 to s/LENGTH/STRLEN/g ←
15:08:20 <chimezie> AxelPolleres: Andy proposed to renam LEN to STRLEN (hope no objections)
Axel Polleres: Andy proposed to renam LEN to STRLEN (hope no objections) ←
15:08:23 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
15:08:24 <Souri> +1
Souripriya Das: +1 ←
15:08:25 <LeeF> yup
Lee Feigenbaum: yup ←
15:08:42 <chimezie> s/piped/typed
15:08:51 <AxelPolleres> ://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0361.html
Axel Polleres: ://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0361.html ←
15:09:07 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0361.html
Axel Polleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0361.html ←
15:09:43 <chimezie> Andy: put aside CONCAT
Andy Seaborne: put aside CONCAT ←
15:09:56 <chimezie> ... for all others, work on one string (mostly)
... for all others, work on one string (mostly) ←
15:10:27 <chimezie> AndyS: language tags coming in, go out (same with xsd:string datatype)
Andy Seaborne: language tags coming in, go out (same with xsd:string datatype) ←
15:10:41 <chimezie> ... arguments are treated as characters (exactly the same lang tag) can be compared
... arguments are treated as characters (exactly the same lang tag) can be compared ←
15:11:10 <chimezie> ... implying something stronger will not work
... implying something stronger will not work ←
15:11:17 <chimezie> .. either false or errors
.. either false or errors ←
15:11:39 <chimezie> ... problematic to assume language tags have a hierarchy - gets tricky
... problematic to assume language tags have a hierarchy - gets tricky ←
15:12:44 <chimezie> Sandro: common case is @en. Will this prevent use of this?
Sandro Hawke: common case is @en. Will this prevent use of this? ←
15:12:49 <AxelPolleres> sandro: en vs en-US vs. en-UK
Sandro Hawke: en vs en-US vs. en-UK [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
15:12:53 <AxelPolleres> ?
Axel Polleres: ? ←
15:13:12 <Souri> STARTS("abc"@en, "a"@en-UK) can be replaced with STARTS(ENCODES(?str1),ENCODES(?str2)), right?
Souripriya Das: STARTS("abc"@en, "a"@en-UK) can be replaced with STARTS(ENCODES(?str1),ENCODES(?str2)), right? ←
15:13:20 <chimezie> AndyS: STR can be used to remove language tag
Andy Seaborne: STR can be used to remove language tag ←
15:13:40 <pgearon> AncyS, so are you saying that startsWith("foobar"@en, "foo") will not work?
Paula Gearon: AndyS, so are you saying that startsWith("foobar"@en, "foo") will not work? ←
15:13:54 <pgearon> s/AncyS/AndyS/
15:13:55 <AndyS> pgearon - will work.
Andy Seaborne: pgearon - will work. ←
15:14:11 <chimezie> AndyS: second argument doesn't have language tag, so example will work
Andy Seaborne: second argument doesn't have language tag, so example will work ←
15:14:24 <kasei> I think sandro's use case if important. STARTS("foo"@en-UK, "f"@en) -- match all english literals regardless of UK, US, etc.
Gregory Williams: I think sandro's use case if important. STARTS("foo"@en-UK, "f"@en) -- match all english literals regardless of UK, US, etc. ←
15:14:32 <SteveH> startsWith("foobar"@en-GB, "foo"@en-US) is what won't work, right?
Steve Harris: startsWith("foobar"@en-GB, "foo"@en-US) is what won't work, right? ←
15:14:46 <chimezie> AxelPolleres: worry about derived datatypes?
Axel Polleres: worry about derived datatypes? ←
15:15:29 <chimezie> AndyS: don't know how to make Steve's example work without analyzing the language tags
Andy Seaborne: don't know how to make Steve's example work without analyzing the language tags ←
15:15:57 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#built-in-derived derived types? e.g. xs:NCName vs xs:string do we need to worry?
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#built-in-derived derived types? e.g. xs:NCName vs xs:string do we need to worry? ←
15:16:01 <kasei> I think the language comparison should be grounded in langMatches()
Gregory Williams: I think the language comparison should be grounded in langMatches() ←
15:17:02 <chimezie> AndyS: derived types get naturally handled by super type
Andy Seaborne: derived types get naturally handled by super type ←
15:17:15 <chimezie> AxelPolleres: in any combination?
Axel Polleres: in any combination? ←
15:17:49 <chimezie> AndyS: not required to support those types currently in SPARQL
Andy Seaborne: not required to support those types currently in SPARQL ←
15:17:49 <SteveH> kasei, interesting idea
Steve Harris: kasei, interesting idea ←
15:18:29 <AxelPolleres> starts( "abc"^^xs:string, "a"^^xsd:NCName)
Axel Polleres: starts( "abc"^^xs:string, "a"^^xsd:NCName) ←
15:19:07 <kasei> q+
Gregory Williams: q+ ←
15:19:18 <kasei> (sorry. i keep posting things in irc)
Gregory Williams: (sorry. i keep posting things in irc) ←
15:19:51 <chimezie> Greg: for these operations (comparison on languages) it should be based on langMatches function
Gregory Williams: for these operations (comparison on languages) it should be based on langMatches function ←
15:20:02 <LeeF> ack karl
Lee Feigenbaum: ack karl ←
15:20:04 <LeeF> ack kasei
Lee Feigenbaum: ack kasei ←
15:20:17 <chimezie> ... want to query across variations of english for *all* languages, using langMatches will support this
... want to query across variations of english for *all* languages, using langMatches will support this ←
15:20:22 <chimezie> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:20:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see AxelPolleres, LeeF, SteveH, kasei, Sandro, Chimezie_Ogbuji (muted), MattPerry, Souri, AndyS, pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AxelPolleres, LeeF, SteveH, kasei, Sandro, Chimezie_Ogbuji (muted), MattPerry, Souri, AndyS, pgearon ←
15:20:27 <AxelPolleres> q?
Axel Polleres: q? ←
15:20:33 <kasei> STARTS("foo"@en-UK, "f"@en)
Gregory Williams: STARTS("foo"@en-UK, "f"@en) ←
15:21:03 <chimezie> AndyS: don't know how to make that work in all possible cases
Andy Seaborne: don't know how to make that work in all possible cases ←
15:21:18 <pgearon> +q
Paula Gearon: +q ←
15:21:24 <AxelPolleres> q?
Axel Polleres: q? ←
15:21:38 <chimezie> ... not sure if langMatches covers everything
... not sure if langMatches covers everything ←
15:22:01 <SteveH> LANGMATCHES("en-UK", "en") is true, LANGMATCHES("en", "en-UK") is false
Steve Harris: LANGMATCHES("en-UK", "en") is true, LANGMATCHES("en", "en-UK") is false ←
15:22:08 <AxelPolleres> calling STR + langmatches explicitly seems to cover kasei's use case?
Axel Polleres: calling STR + langmatches explicitly seems to cover kasei's use case? ←
15:22:14 <chimezie> Paul: sounds like big task for small usecase. don't want to mandate implementations in this way
Paula Gearon: sounds like big task for small usecase. don't want to mandate implementations in this way ←
15:22:21 <chimezie> ... too detailed to specify
... too detailed to specify ←
15:22:27 <kasei> pgearon, we already mandate langMatches support, though, right?
Gregory Williams: pgearon, we already mandate langMatches support, though, right? ←
15:23:00 <SteveH> q+
Steve Harris: q+ ←
15:23:05 <chimezie> Paul: My typical usecase is a single language
Paula Gearon: My typical usecase is a single language ←
15:23:34 <chimezie> SteveH: (support for lang tags). Use two types of english in my RDF store
Steve Harris: (support for lang tags). Use two types of english in my RDF store ←
15:23:46 <SteveH> + german, french and italian
Steve Harris: + german, french and italian ←
15:24:14 <chimezie> AxelPolleres: haven't heard concrete alternative proposal
Axel Polleres: haven't heard concrete alternative proposal ←
15:24:18 <SteveH> but, I'm OK with what Andy suggests
Steve Harris: but, I'm OK with what Andy suggests ←
15:24:20 <chimezie> ... move forward or think about it?
... move forward or think about it? ←
15:24:47 <chimezie> AndyS: german / austrian - same word , different characters
Andy Seaborne: german / austrian - same word , different characters ←
15:25:15 <AxelPolleres> "Januar"@de-DE = "Jänner"@de-AT (January)
Axel Polleres: "Januar"@de-DE = "Jänner"@de-AT (January) ←
15:25:18 <chimezie> ... an element of not saying lang matches are in terms of content and not character manipulation
... an element of not saying lang matches are in terms of content and not character manipulation ←
15:25:44 <chimezie> SteveH: STR is a decent fallback
Steve Harris: STR is a decent fallback ←
15:26:09 <SteveH> ...bu I don't think users would expect STARTS() to care about lang tag
Steve Harris: ...bu I don't think users would expect STARTS() to care about lang tag ←
15:26:12 <chimezie> AxelPolleres: objections to moving forward with this?
Axel Polleres: objections to moving forward with this? ←
15:26:34 <chimezie> AndyS: if mismatches is an error, then it is an extension point
Andy Seaborne: if mismatches is an error, then it is an extension point ←
15:26:37 <SteveH> -1 to it being an error
Steve Harris: -1 to it being an error ←
15:27:09 <chimezie> SteveH: rather false. If expecting an error can strip out w/ STR
Steve Harris: rather false. If expecting an error can strip out w/ STR ←
15:27:23 <chimezie> ... 99% of usecases, starts is called with pair of literals where language tags are not of concern
... 99% of usecases, starts is called with pair of literals where language tags are not of concern ←
15:28:28 <kasei> q+
Gregory Williams: q+ ←
15:28:50 <SteveH> q-
Steve Harris: q- ←
15:28:54 <chimezie> AxelPolleres: didn't discuss concatenation - anything missing regarding this?
Axel Polleres: didn't discuss concatenation - anything missing regarding this? ←
15:29:06 <chimezie> AndyS: took that out of equation (complicated)
Andy Seaborne: took that out of equation (complicated) ←
15:29:40 <pgearon> q-
Paula Gearon: q- ←
15:30:15 <chimezie> ... cases here are regarding mixture of language tags (what happens) or mixture of simple and xsd;string
... cases here are regarding mixture of language tags (what happens) or mixture of simple and xsd;string ←
15:30:30 <chimezie> ... for former, return simple strings (after attempt to resolve language tags)
... for former, return simple strings (after attempt to resolve language tags) ←
15:31:47 <AxelPolleres> concat ( "a"@en, "b"^^string, "c") =?= "abc"@en
Axel Polleres: concat ( "a"@en, "b"^^string, "c") =?= "abc"@en ←
15:32:33 <AxelPolleres> concat ( "b"^^string, "c")
Axel Polleres: concat ( "b"^^string, "c") ←
15:32:42 <AxelPolleres> "bc"^^xs:string
Axel Polleres: "bc"^^xs:string ←
15:32:52 <chimezie> AndyS: I'm proposing this
Andy Seaborne: I'm proposing this ←
15:32:53 <AxelPolleres> (andy)
Axel Polleres: (andy) ←
15:33:00 <chimezie> SteveH: prefer return simple literal
Steve Harris: prefer return simple literal ←
15:33:00 <AxelPolleres> "bc" (steve)
Axel Polleres: "bc" (steve) ←
15:33:39 <chimezie> AndyS: people often use xsd:string by mistake (tools do their own thing)
Andy Seaborne: people often use xsd:string by mistake (tools do their own thing) ←
15:34:11 <chimezie> ... want to avoid forcing into a datatype that wasn't in data
... want to avoid forcing into a datatype that wasn't in data ←
15:34:33 <AndyS> CONCAT("a"^^xsd:string, "") -> "a" or "a"^^xsd:string
Andy Seaborne: CONCAT("a"^^xsd:string, "") -> "a" or "a"^^xsd:string ←
15:34:42 <chimezie> SteveH: result would be suprising if I get xsd;string back
Steve Harris: result would be suprising if I get xsd;string back ←
15:34:53 <chimezie> ... also question of consistency
... also question of consistency ←
15:35:45 <AxelPolleres> strawpoll CONCAT("a"^^xsd:string, "") -> "a" (vote 1) or "a"^^xsd:string (vote 2)
Axel Polleres: strawpoll CONCAT("a"^^xsd:string, "") -> "a" (vote 1) or "a"^^xsd:string (vote 2) ←
15:35:50 <SteveH> AndyS, or, a more real world example CONCAT(?var, "")
Steve Harris: AndyS, or, a more real world example CONCAT(?var, "") ←
15:35:53 <chimezie> if STR can be used to forcibly strip out lang tags, then it would seem preffered to maintain them
if STR can be used to forcibly strip out lang tags, then it would seem preffered to maintain them ←
15:36:05 <chimezie> 2
2 ←
15:36:08 <Souri> q+
Souripriya Das: q+ ←
15:36:11 <kasei> 1 (very mild preference)
Gregory Williams: 1 (very mild preference) ←
15:36:18 <MattPerry> 1
Matthew Perry: 1 ←
15:36:21 <SteveH> 1
Steve Harris: 1 ←
15:36:29 <SteveH> (but not stong pref)
Steve Harris: (but not stong pref) ←
15:36:29 <AxelPolleres> 1 (mildly)
Axel Polleres: 1 (mildly) ←
15:36:34 <kasei> q-
Gregory Williams: q- ←
15:36:42 <AndyS> 2
Andy Seaborne: 2 ←
15:36:46 <Souri> 1 (mildly)
Souripriya Das: 1 (mildly) ←
15:36:58 <AxelPolleres> q?
Axel Polleres: q? ←
15:37:24 <LeeF> I'm pretty happy with always returning simple or always returning xsd:string. Using xsd:string(...) or STR(...) just isn't a big deal to me.
Lee Feigenbaum: I'm pretty happy with always returning simple or always returning xsd:string. Using xsd:string(...) or STR(...) just isn't a big deal to me. ←
15:37:28 <chimezie> Souri: difference betwen "a" and "a"^^xsd:string (should be equivalent). one is just longer representation of same thing
Souripriya Das: difference betwen "a" and "a"^^xsd:string (should be equivalent). one is just longer representation of same thing ←
15:37:33 <LeeF> Also happy with anything in between.
Lee Feigenbaum: Also happy with anything in between. ←
15:37:53 <kasei> LeeF, me too, except not anything in between! :)
Gregory Williams: LeeF, me too, except not anything in between! :) ←
15:37:56 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
15:38:20 <Souri> q-
Souripriya Das: q- ←
15:38:30 <AxelPolleres> ack AndyS
Axel Polleres: ack AndyS ←
15:38:41 <chimezie> AndyS: in RDF MT they are the same value but not same term
Andy Seaborne: in RDF MT they are the same value but not same term ←
15:39:05 <AxelPolleres> but aren't they only the same value in D entailment?
Axel Polleres: but aren't they only the same value in D entailment? ←
15:39:05 <chimezie> Souri: two lexical forms of same canonical value
Souripriya Das: two lexical forms of same canonical value ←
15:39:46 <chimezie> my preference isn't strong
my preference isn't strong ←
15:41:06 <chimezie> SteveH: advice to editor is fine
Steve Harris: advice to editor is fine ←
15:41:21 <AxelPolleres> advice to the editors is to go ahead with returning plain literals only, in case of miced input
Axel Polleres: advice to the editors is to go ahead with returning plain literals only, in case of miced input ←
15:41:26 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:41:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see AxelPolleres, LeeF, SteveH, kasei, Sandro, Chimezie_Ogbuji (muted), MattPerry, Souri, AndyS, pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AxelPolleres, LeeF, SteveH, kasei, Sandro, Chimezie_Ogbuji (muted), MattPerry, Souri, AndyS, pgearon ←
15:41:57 <chimezie> Sandro: record as resolved since we have consensus
Sandro Hawke: record as resolved since we have consensus ←
15:42:50 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: CONCAT returns plain literals in case of mixed input (plain, typed) literals and inherits language tags if not ambiguous.
PROPOSED: CONCAT returns plain literals in case of mixed input (plain, typed) literals and inherits language tags if not ambiguous. ←
15:43:42 <chimezie> AndyS: doesn't capture discussion
Andy Seaborne: doesn't capture discussion ←
15:44:25 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: CONCAT returns simple literals in case of mixed input (simple, typed) literals
PROPOSED: CONCAT returns simple literals in case of mixed input (simple, typed) literals ←
15:44:40 <SteveH> +1
Steve Harris: +1 ←
15:44:42 <AndyS> abstain
Andy Seaborne: abstain ←
15:44:57 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
15:45:11 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: CONCAT returns simple literals in case of mixed input (simple, typed) literals
RESOLVED: CONCAT returns simple literals in case of mixed input (simple, typed) literals ←
15:45:47 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: CONCAT returns simple literals in case of mixed input (simple, typed) literals (one abstention)
RESOLVED: CONCAT returns simple literals in case of mixed input (simple, typed) literals (one abstention) ←
15:46:39 <AxelPolleres> subtopic: inclusion of SHA*/MD5 functions
15:47:20 <SteveH> q+
Steve Harris: q+ ←
15:47:22 <chimezie> AxelPolleres: SHA-1 and/or SHA-2
Axel Polleres: SHA-1 and/or SHA-2 ←
15:47:26 <AxelPolleres> SHA1 vs. SHA-2? http://www.w3.org/mid/1291424556.4437.26.camel@waldron
Axel Polleres: SHA1 vs. SHA-2? http://www.w3.org/mid/1291424556.4437.26.camel@waldron ←
15:47:31 <chimezie> is there implementation burden to do both?
is there implementation burden to do both? ←
15:47:52 <chimezie> SteveH: should have both
Steve Harris: should have both ←
15:48:30 <chimezie> AxelPolleres: issue with key length?
Axel Polleres: issue with key length? ←
15:48:41 <AxelPolleres> keylength? argument or in the function name? http://www.w3.org/mid/AANLkTinb5WngJ6CKyKbL1K40j7Gv80zDUrFsYUL40TOa@mail.gmail.com
Axel Polleres: keylength? argument or in the function name? http://www.w3.org/mid/AANLkTinb5WngJ6CKyKbL1K40j7Gv80zDUrFsYUL40TOa@mail.gmail.com ←
15:48:45 <chimezie> Sandro: SHA-2 has variable key length
Sandro Hawke: SHA-2 has variable key length ←
15:49:00 <chimezie> ... do we allow key length to be a parameter to function?
... do we allow key length to be a parameter to function? ←
15:49:01 <AndyS> SHA-224, SHA-256, SHA-384, SHA-512
Andy Seaborne: SHA-224, SHA-256, SHA-384, SHA-512 ←
15:49:04 <SteveH> there's 4 keys lengs
Steve Harris: there's 4 keys lengs ←
15:49:05 <chimezie> ... no preference
... no preference ←
15:49:18 <SteveH> 256 and 512 are more common, in my experience
Steve Harris: 256 and 512 are more common, in my experience ←
15:49:19 <AndyS> are the 4 kinds
Andy Seaborne: are the 4 kinds ←
15:49:21 <MattPerry> FYI: Oracle Database supports MD4, MD5 and SHA-1
Matthew Perry: FYI: Oracle Database supports MD4, MD5 and SHA-1 ←
15:50:00 <sandro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHA-2
Sandro Hawke: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHA-2 ←
15:50:07 <chimezie> AndyS: same procedure, seeded differently
Andy Seaborne: same procedure, seeded differently ←
15:50:09 <AxelPolleres> so we talk about 5 functions here: SHA-1, SHA-224, SHA-256, SHA-384, SHA-512 ?
Axel Polleres: so we talk about 5 functions here: SHA-1, SHA-224, SHA-256, SHA-384, SHA-512 ? ←
15:50:23 <chimezie> or 2 (where the latter is parameterized)?
or 2 (where the latter is parameterized)? ←
15:50:57 <chimezie> Sandro: agree to be compliant with standard branding (re-use their common names)
Sandro Hawke: agree to be compliant with standard branding (re-use their common names) ←
15:51:10 <chimezie> ... might shift however. SHA-3 for instance
... might shift however. SHA-3 for instance ←
15:51:51 <AxelPolleres> SHA1 SHA224, SHA256, etc?
Axel Polleres: SHA1 SHA224, SHA256, etc? ←
15:52:02 <chimezie> AndyS: those are names of algorithms (happen to be key lengths w/ SHA-2)
Andy Seaborne: those are names of algorithms (happen to be key lengths w/ SHA-2) ←
15:52:02 <AxelPolleres> ... as function names?
Axel Polleres: ... as function names? ←
15:54:17 <AndyS> http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/fips/fips180-3/fips180-3_final.pdf
Andy Seaborne: http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/fips/fips180-3/fips180-3_final.pdf ←
15:54:33 <sandro> SHA1(....)
Sandro Hawke: SHA1(....) ←
15:54:38 <AndyS> is the standard (latest revision)
Andy Seaborne: is the standard (latest revision) ←
15:54:42 <AxelPolleres> SHA1(x), SHA224(x), SHA256(x), ... vs. SHA1(x), SHA2(x, 224), SHA2(x , 256), ...
Axel Polleres: SHA1(x), SHA224(x), SHA256(x), ... vs. SHA1(x), SHA2(x, 224), SHA2(x , 256), ... ←
15:55:26 <AxelPolleres> strawpoll: SHA1(x), SHA224(x), SHA256(x), ... - vote 1 vs. SHA1(x), SHA2(x, 224), SHA2(x , 256), ... - vote 2
STRAWPOLL: SHA1(x), SHA224(x), SHA256(x), ... - vote 1 vs. SHA1(x), SHA2(x, 224), SHA2(x , 256), ... - vote 2 ←
15:55:31 <SteveH> 1
Steve Harris: 1 ←
15:55:32 <chimezie> 2
2 ←
15:55:43 <kasei> 0
15:55:49 <sandro> 2
Sandro Hawke: 2 ←
15:55:52 <AndyS> 1
Andy Seaborne: 1 ←
15:55:52 <AxelPolleres> 0
Axel Polleres: 0 ←
15:55:55 <MattPerry> 2
Matthew Perry: 2 ←
15:56:07 <pgearon> 1
Paula Gearon: 1 ←
15:56:12 <Souri> 2
Souripriya Das: 2 ←
15:56:15 <LeeF> 0
Lee Feigenbaum: 0 ←
15:56:31 <SteveH> q+
Steve Harris: q+ ←
15:56:58 <chimezie> SteveH: some are actually different algorithms
Steve Harris: some are actually different algorithms ←
15:57:09 <MattPerry> changing my vote to 1
Matthew Perry: changing my vote to 1 ←
15:57:10 <chimezie> ... 4 key lengths and 2 algorithms
... 4 key lengths and 2 algorithms ←
15:57:11 <Souri> Would we *require* support for *all* these functions in an implementation for conformance?
Souripriya Das: Would we *require* support for *all* these functions in an implementation for conformance? ←
15:57:31 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
Zakim, unmute me ←
15:57:31 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted ←
15:57:38 <Souri> changing to 1
Souripriya Das: changing to 1 ←
15:58:27 <chimezie> implementations tend to rely on existing libraries for this kind of thing
implementations tend to rely on existing libraries for this kind of thing ←
15:58:36 <chimezie> if not available in (say Java or Python) could be problematic
if not available in (say Java or Python) could be problematic ←
15:58:38 <chimezie> for full compliance
for full compliance ←
15:58:41 <SteveH> kasei, I think this is just about naming
Steve Harris: kasei, I think this is just about naming ←
15:59:27 <SteveH> chimezie, there are implementations in java and python
Steve Harris: chimezie, there are implementations in java and python ←
15:59:38 <kasei> SteveH, yeah ok. still, though. feels like we keep taking on functions.
Gregory Williams: SteveH, yeah ok. still, though. feels like we keep taking on functions. ←
15:59:43 <chimezie> ok
ok ←
15:59:52 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
Zakim, mute me ←
15:59:52 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted ←
15:59:58 <kasei> I'm happy leaving it to the editors.
Gregory Williams: I'm happy leaving it to the editors. ←
16:00:01 <MattPerry> I would rather leave out sha-2 but I won't object
Matthew Perry: I would rather leave out sha-2 but I won't object ←
16:00:32 <Zakim> -LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF ←
16:00:41 <AndyS> "Federal agencies should stop using SHA-1 for.. after 2010" - NIST
Andy Seaborne: "Federal agencies should stop using SHA-1 for.. after 2010" - NIST ←
16:00:46 <sandro> PROPOSED: SPARQL function library will include SHA1() , SHA224(), SHA256(), SHA384(), SHA512()
PROPOSED: SPARQL function library will include SHA1() , SHA224(), SHA256(), SHA384(), SHA512() ←
16:00:55 <SteveH> MD5?
Steve Harris: MD5? ←
16:00:57 <pgearon> +1
Paula Gearon: +1 ←
16:01:08 <AndyS> +MD5
Andy Seaborne: +MD5 ←
16:01:15 <Zakim> -MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: -MattPerry ←
16:01:19 <sandro> PROPOSED: SPARQL function library will include MD5(), SHA1() , SHA224(), SHA256(), SHA384(), SHA512()
PROPOSED: SPARQL function library will include MD5(), SHA1() , SHA224(), SHA256(), SHA384(), SHA512() ←
16:01:24 <SteveH> +1
Steve Harris: +1 ←
16:01:26 <pgearon> +1
Paula Gearon: +1 ←
16:01:27 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
16:01:27 <chimezie> 0
0 ←
16:01:34 <Souri> +1 to MD5
Souripriya Das: +1 to MD5 ←
16:01:41 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
Zakim, unmute me ←
16:01:42 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted ←
16:02:17 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: SPARQL function library will include MD5(), SHA1() , SHA224(), SHA256(), SHA384(), SHA512()
RESOLVED: SPARQL function library will include MD5(), SHA1() , SHA224(), SHA256(), SHA384(), SHA512() ←
16:02:28 <chimezie> bye
bye ←
16:02:31 <Zakim> -Chimezie_Ogbuji
Zakim IRC Bot: -Chimezie_Ogbuji ←
16:02:35 <Zakim> -Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: -Souri ←
16:02:36 <AxelPolleres> adjourned
Axel Polleres: adjourned ←
16:02:38 <SteveH> bye all
Steve Harris: bye all ←
16:02:39 <Zakim> -SteveH
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH ←
16:02:51 <Zakim> -kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei ←
16:02:58 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
16:02:59 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent. make records public
Axel Polleres: rrsagent. make records public ←
16:03:01 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
16:03:06 <Zakim> -pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgearon ←
16:03:22 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public
Axel Polleres: rrsagent, make records public ←
16:03:29 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
Zakim IRC Bot: -AxelPolleres ←
16:03:30 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended ←
16:03:31 <Zakim> Attendees were AxelPolleres, LeeF, SteveH, kasei, Sandro, Chimezie_Ogbuji, MattPerry, Simon, Souri, AndyS, pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were AxelPolleres, LeeF, SteveH, kasei, Sandro, Chimezie_Ogbuji, MattPerry, Simon, Souri, AndyS, pgearon ←
Formatted by CommonScribe