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13:37:37 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-sparql-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-sparql-irc ←
13:38:00 <AxelPolleres> trackbot, this will be sparql
Axel Polleres: trackbot, this will be sparql ←
13:38:00 <trackbot> Sorry, AxelPolleres, I don't understand 'trackbot, this will be sparql'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, AxelPolleres, I don't understand 'trackbot, this will be sparql'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help ←
13:38:08 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, this will be sparql
Axel Polleres: Zakim, this will be sparql ←
13:38:08 <Zakim> ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 22 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 22 minutes ←
13:38:19 <AxelPolleres> Chair: Axel Polleres
13:39:19 <AxelPolleres> regrets: Steve Harris, Ivan Herman
13:39:33 <AxelPolleres> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-10-19
13:40:10 <AxelPolleres> regrets: Steve Harris, Ivan Herman, Olivier Corby
13:48:48 <AxelPolleres> regrets: Steve Harris, Ivan Herman, Olivier Corby, Lee Feigenbaum
13:48:55 <ericP> heya Axel, i'll can come to the conf around 10 after
(No events recorded for 10 minutes)
Eric Prud'hommeaux: heya Axel, i'll can come to the conf around 10 after ←
13:48:59 <ericP> 'zat work?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: 'zat work? ←
13:52:48 <AxelPolleres> eric, should be ok, that's when we just have finished admin stuff
Axel Polleres: eric, should be ok, that's when we just have finished admin stuff ←
13:52:57 <AxelPolleres> ... ideally, don't be later ;-)
Axel Polleres: ... ideally, don't be later ;-) ←
13:53:26 <sandro> partial regrets, sorry. I'll be able to call in for a bit in the middle.
Sandro Hawke: partial regrets, sorry. I'll be able to call in for a bit in the middle. ←
13:58:21 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started ←
13:58:28 <Zakim> +??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←
13:59:26 <Zakim> +kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei ←
14:00:05 <Zakim> +MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry ←
14:00:29 <AxelPolleres> who is P3?
Axel Polleres: who is P3? ←
14:00:45 <cbuilara> me I think
Carlos Buil Aranda: me I think ←
14:00:56 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres
Zakim IRC Bot: +AxelPolleres ←
14:01:07 <cbuilara> I was the first in joining the call
Carlos Buil Aranda: I was the first in joining the call ←
14:01:16 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, ??P3 is cbuilara
Axel Polleres: Zakim, ??P3 is cbuilara ←
14:01:16 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cbuilara; got it ←
14:01:28 <cbuilara> thanks
Carlos Buil Aranda: thanks ←
14:01:33 <Zakim> +??P12
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12 ←
14:01:36 <AndyS> zakim, ??P12 is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P12 is me ←
14:01:36 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
14:01:56 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:01:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see cbuilara (muted), kasei, MattPerry, AxelPolleres, AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see cbuilara (muted), kasei, MattPerry, AxelPolleres, AndyS ←
14:02:26 <AxelPolleres> Paul, will you be joining? (I have you on the list for scribing :-) )
Axel Polleres: Paul, will you be joining? (I have you on the list for scribing :-) ) ←
14:02:38 <AxelPolleres> trackbot, start meeting
Axel Polleres: trackbot, start meeting ←
14:02:40 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:02:42 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277 ←
14:02:43 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:02:43 <trackbot> Date: 19 October 2010
14:02:44 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago ←
14:03:28 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:03:32 <Zakim> I notice SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has restarted
Zakim IRC Bot: I notice SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has restarted ←
14:03:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see cbuilara, kasei, MattPerry, AxelPolleres, AndyS, bglimm, Chimezie_Ogbuji, Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see cbuilara, kasei, MattPerry, AxelPolleres, AndyS, bglimm, Chimezie_Ogbuji, Souri ←
14:03:50 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me ←
14:04:04 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted ←
14:04:04 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:04:08 <Zakim> +pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon ←
14:04:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see cbuilara, kasei, MattPerry, AxelPolleres, AndyS, bglimm (muted), Chimezie_Ogbuji, Souri, pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see cbuilara, kasei, MattPerry, AxelPolleres, AndyS, bglimm (muted), Chimezie_Ogbuji, Souri, pgearon ←
14:04:10 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, mute me ←
14:04:17 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted ←
14:04:24 <AxelPolleres> scribe: Paul Gearon
Scribe problem: the name 'Paul Gearon' does not match any of the 65 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ahmed Ezzat Alexandre Passant Andrea Westerinen Andrei Lopatenko Andy Seaborne Axel Polleres Bijan Parsia Birte Glimm Bryan Thompson Carlos Buil Aranda Chimezie Ogbuji Cui Tao Daniel Schutzer Dave Beckett David Charboneau David Newman Davide Palmisano Dhanapalan Kulandai Vadivel Dirk Colaert Dirk-Willem van Gulik Edward Thomas Elias Torres Enrico Franconi Eric Prud'hommeaux Frank Careccia Fred Zemke Gregory Williams Hiroyuki Sato Ivan Mikhailov Ivan Herman Jacek Kopecký Jari Vänttinen Jean-François Baget Jeen Broekstra Jeff Pollock John Clark Jos De Roo Kendall Clark Kevin Wilkinson Lee Feigenbaum Luke Wilson-Mawer Matthew Perry Michael Smith Michele Minno Nicholas Humfrey Nico Michaelis Nophadol Jekjantuk Olivier Corby Orri Erling Paula Gearon Prateek Jain Rachel Yager Roland Schwaenzl Sandro Hawke Sergio Tessaris Simon Johnston Souripriya Das Steve Harris Sven Groppe Timo Westkämper Tommi Koivula Yoshio Fukushige Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
(Scribe set to Unknown Gearon)
14:04:45 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-10-19
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-10-19 ←
14:04:49 <AxelPolleres> topic: admin
14:05:00 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-10-12
PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-10-12 ←
14:05:30 <pgearon> seconded
Paula Gearon: seconded ←
14:05:31 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-10-12
RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-10-12 ←
14:06:00 <AxelPolleres> Next regular meeting: 2010-10-26 ...
Axel Polleres: Next regular meeting: 2010-10-26 ... ←
14:06:06 <AndyS> Regrets for next time: AndyS
Andy Seaborne: Regrets for next time: AndyS ←
14:06:51 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: Already new comments on draft publications
Axel Polleres: Already new comments on draft publications [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:07:16 <pgearon> goal to get to last call by the end of the year
Paula Gearon: goal to get to last call by the end of the year ←
14:07:17 <AxelPolleres> make clear in thadvertisements that we want to get to LC by end of the year
Axel Polleres: make clear in thadvertisements that we want to get to LC by end of the year ←
14:07:34 <AxelPolleres> ... to be discussed within chairs, suggestions for further advertisement welcome.
Axel Polleres: ... to be discussed within chairs, suggestions for further advertisement welcome. ←
14:07:51 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:08:06 <AlexPassant> I just joined
Alexandre Passant: I just joined ←
14:08:17 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, IPCaller is AlexPassant
Axel Polleres: Zakim, IPCaller is AlexPassant ←
14:08:17 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexPassant; got it ←
14:08:28 <AxelPolleres> topic: Federated Queries
14:09:08 <AxelPolleres> 1) the "must be bound issue" (certainly, potentially bound
Axel Polleres: 1) the "must be bound issue" (certainly, potentially bound ←
14:09:13 <AxelPolleres> 2) error behavior (be it for {SERVICE t P} a) t not a service, b)
Axel Polleres: 2) error behavior (be it for {SERVICE t P} a) t not a service, b) ←
14:09:13 <AxelPolleres> call to t fails/returns error/query refused, or c) t unbound),
Axel Polleres: call to t fails/returns error/query refused, or c) t unbound), ←
14:09:13 <AxelPolleres> 3) incomplete/missing semantics definition (particularly for the case
Axel Polleres: 3) incomplete/missing semantics definition (particularly for the case ←
14:09:13 <AxelPolleres> when t is a variavble
Axel Polleres: when t is a variavble ←
14:09:13 <AxelPolleres> 4) informal style
Axel Polleres: 4) informal style ←
14:09:14 <AxelPolleres> 5) "UNDEF" (i.e. UNBOUND/NULL) ... for BINDINGS is strange/nowhere
Axel Polleres: 5) "UNDEF" (i.e. UNBOUND/NULL) ... for BINDINGS is strange/nowhere ←
14:09:16 <AxelPolleres> explained
Axel Polleres: explained ←
14:09:18 <AxelPolleres> 6) further editorial comments by Greg
Axel Polleres: 6) further editorial comments by Greg ←
14:11:10 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0433.html
Axel Polleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0433.html ←
14:11:16 <AxelPolleres> (greg's mail)
Axel Polleres: (greg's mail) ←
14:11:28 <AxelPolleres> greg: examples are very domain specific
Gregory Williams: examples are very domain specific [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:11:52 <kasei> SERVICE <sparql?default-graph=foo>
Gregory Williams: SERVICE <sparql?default-graph=foo> ←
14:12:33 <AxelPolleres> 7) allow to add dataset as parameter?
Axel Polleres: 7) allow to add dataset as parameter? ←
14:12:44 <pgearon> kasei: don't see any reason not to allow this, since it already allowed in the protocol
Gregory Williams: don't see any reason not to allow this, since it already allowed in the protocol [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:12:57 <AndyS> Good idea -- use FROM, FROM NAMED (else need to construct SERVICE uri dynamically in SPARQL?)
Andy Seaborne: Good idea -- use FROM, FROM NAMED (else need to construct SERVICE uri dynamically in SPARQL?) ←
14:13:49 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: interested in feelings on these topics, rather than solutions at this stage
Axel Polleres: interested in feelings on these topics, rather than solutions at this stage [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:14:28 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-office
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Zakim, please dial ericP-office ←
14:14:28 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ericP; the call is being made ←
14:14:30 <Zakim> +EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP ←
14:14:35 <pgearon> subtopic: point 2 - error behavior
14:14:40 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: Currently, if there is an error, then the entire service should fail. Perhaps this is not the best approach
Axel Polleres: Currently, if there is an error, then the entire service should fail. Perhaps this is not the best approach [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:14:54 <kasei> i'd want OPTIONAL { SERVICE <s> { ... } } to not cause the entire query to fail if the service call fails
Gregory Williams: i'd want OPTIONAL { SERVICE <s> { ... } } to not cause the entire query to fail if the service call fails ←
14:15:00 <AxelPolleres> ad 2) ... SERVICE SILENT?
Axel Polleres: ad 2) ... SERVICE SILENT? ←
14:16:16 <AndyS> +1 to kasei
Andy Seaborne: +1 to kasei ←
14:16:44 <pgearon> ericP: yes, wrote that a service failure should result in total failure, else results will not be as constrained as clients think they are
Eric Prud'hommeaux: yes, wrote that a service failure should result in total failure, else results will not be as constrained as clients think they are [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:17:04 <AxelPolleres> OPTIONAL { SERVICE SILENT would do that job, greg?
Axel Polleres: OPTIONAL { SERVICE SILENT would do that job, greg? ←
14:17:24 <pgearon> ericP: wrote that the query fails, . Perhaps say that the GroupGraphPattern in which the service appears fails to match
Eric Prud'hommeaux: wrote that the query fails, . Perhaps say that the GroupGraphPattern in which the service appears fails to match [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:17:46 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: so it would leave all the variables unbound
Axel Polleres: so it would leave all the variables unbound [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:17:51 <AxelPolleres> "fail" would leavea ll vars unbound, i.e. = {}
Axel Polleres: "fail" would leavea ll vars unbound, i.e. = {} ←
14:18:04 <Zakim> +??P38
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P38 ←
14:18:09 <kasei> {}, not {{}}
Gregory Williams: {}, not {{}} ←
14:18:18 <NickH> Zakim, ??P38 is me
Nicholas Humfrey: Zakim, ??P38 is me ←
14:18:18 <Zakim> +NickH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +NickH; got it ←
14:18:52 <pgearon> ericP: no solutions, as opposed to one solution with no bindings
Eric Prud'hommeaux: no solutions, as opposed to one solution with no bindings [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:19:21 <pgearon> ericP: makes it more complicated, but there are use cases that justify it (I think)
Eric Prud'hommeaux: makes it more complicated, but there are use cases that justify it (I think) [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:19:31 <AxelPolleres> editors should make a proposal to the list...
Axel Polleres: editors should make a proposal to the list... ←
14:19:51 <pgearon> AndyS: editors write something up and propose to the list, rather than detailed design here
Andy Seaborne: editors write something up and propose to the list, rather than detailed design here [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:19:56 <pgearon> ericP: seconded
Eric Prud'hommeaux: seconded [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:20:25 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: no explicit actions yet, but will provide a general action to do this
Axel Polleres: no explicit actions yet, but will provide a general action to do this [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:20:58 <pgearon> subtopic: point 3 - incomplete semantics
14:20:27 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/fed/service#defn_service
Eric Prud'hommeaux: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/fed/service#defn_service ←
14:20:51 <ericP> [[
Eric Prud'hommeaux: [[ ←
14:20:52 <ericP> If E is of the form SERVICE VAR {P}
Eric Prud'hommeaux: If E is of the form SERVICE VAR {P} ←
14:20:52 <ericP> Then
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Then ←
14:20:52 <ericP> Let G := Join(G, Service(VAR, G, Transform(P)))
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Let G := Join(G, Service(VAR, G, Transform(P))) ←
14:20:54 <ericP> ]]
Eric Prud'hommeaux: ]] ←
14:21:10 <ericP> [[
Eric Prud'hommeaux: [[ ←
14:21:14 <ericP> Let R be the empty multiset
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Let R be the empty multiset ←
14:21:14 <ericP> foreach i in Ω(?var->i)
Eric Prud'hommeaux: foreach i in Ω(?var->i) ←
14:21:14 <ericP> if i is an IRI
Eric Prud'hommeaux: if i is an IRI ←
14:21:14 <ericP> R := Union(R, Join( Invocation( i, vars ∩ bound, P, Bindings(G, vars) ) , Ω(?var->i) ) )
Eric Prud'hommeaux: R := Union(R, Join( Invocation( i, vars ∩ bound, P, Bindings(G, vars) ) , Ω(?var->i) ) ) ←
14:21:17 <ericP> else
Eric Prud'hommeaux: else ←
14:21:20 <ericP> exection fails.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: exection fails. ←
14:21:22 <ericP> the result is R
Eric Prud'hommeaux: the result is R ←
14:21:25 <ericP>
14:21:27 <ericP> ]]
Eric Prud'hommeaux: ]] ←
14:22:01 <pgearon> ericP: copied what was happening in the GraphGraphPattern. Hope AndyS can look it over and confirm that it appears OK
Eric Prud'hommeaux: copied what was happening in the GraphGraphPattern. Hope AndyS can look it over and confirm that it appears OK [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:22:32 <pgearon> ericP: made it a binary operation
Eric Prud'hommeaux: made it a binary operation [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:22:35 <AndyS> I'll take an action to look at it when the editors say "it's ready for you" (if not now)
Andy Seaborne: I'll take an action to look at it when the editors say "it's ready for you" (if not now) ←
14:22:58 <pgearon> ericP: will take this to text. In email
Eric Prud'hommeaux: will take this to text. In email [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:23:07 <kasei> q+
Gregory Williams: q+ ←
14:23:44 <pgearon> subtopic: point 5 - UNDEF not defined clearly
14:24:06 <AxelPolleres> axel: 5) another approach from "UNDEF" would be "," ?
Axel Polleres: 5) another approach from "UNDEF" would be "," ? [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:24:08 <pgearon> kasei: UNDEF doesn't bother me, but it requires a definition
Gregory Williams: UNDEF doesn't bother me, but it requires a definition [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:24:17 <AndyS> ,, no!
Andy Seaborne: ,, no! ←
14:24:28 <AxelPolleres> greg: UNDEF doesn't bother me... just explanation missing
Gregory Williams: UNDEF doesn't bother me... just explanation missing [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:24:54 <AndyS> not adjacent commas for absence
Andy Seaborne: not adjacent commas for absence ←
14:25:07 <AxelPolleres> greg: highlight again the examples are too specific.
Gregory Williams: highlight again the examples are too specific. [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:25:14 <pgearon> kasei: informal style may change over time, but domain specificness is a current issue
Gregory Williams: informal style may change over time, but domain specificness is a current issue [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:25:32 <AxelPolleres> ... easier to grasp use cases would be better.
Axel Polleres: ... easier to grasp use cases would be better. ←
14:25:42 <pgearon> kasei: readers should not be required to understand "computational biology" (the current use case)
Gregory Williams: readers should not be required to understand "computational biology" (the current use case) [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:26:07 <AxelPolleres> ... again something we leave to the editors...
Axel Polleres: ... again something we leave to the editors... ←
14:26:35 <AxelPolleres> FWIW, I have some SERVICE example using a FOAF File and DBLP in my tutorial slides, maybe a start.
Axel Polleres: FWIW, I have some SERVICE example using a FOAF File and DBLP in my tutorial slides, maybe a start. ←
14:26:45 <pgearon> ericP: current use cases were cut-and-pasted because they were syntactically valid
Eric Prud'hommeaux: current use cases were cut-and-pasted because they were syntactically valid [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:27:00 <pgearon> subtopic: Point 6 - further editorial comments by Greg
14:27:35 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: further comments from Greg can be addressed in mail. Point 7 can be discussed in mail as well.
Axel Polleres: further comments from Greg can be addressed in mail. Point 7 can be discussed in mail as well. [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:27:38 <kasei> q+
Gregory Williams: q+ ←
14:28:02 <AxelPolleres> subtopic: point 7
14:28:50 <AndyS> Why not SERVICE <> { GRAPH <g> {...} }
Andy Seaborne: Why not SERVICE <> { GRAPH <g> {...} } ←
14:28:55 <AxelPolleres> axel: personaly, the use case I see is that FROM/FROM NAMED wasn't allowed in subqwueries and allowing it in SERVICE would allow to circumvent this
Axel Polleres: personaly, the use case I see is that FROM/FROM NAMED wasn't allowed in subqwueries and allowing it in SERVICE would allow to circumvent this [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:29:22 <pgearon> kasei: as it stands right now, service keyword is restricted to the graphs provided by the endpoint
Gregory Williams: as it stands right now, service keyword is restricted to the graphs provided by the endpoint [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:29:27 <AxelPolleres> greg: only useful for service in the default graph
Gregory Williams: only useful for service in the default graph [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:29:27 <Zakim> -AlexPassant
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexPassant ←
14:29:44 <pgearon> AndyS: this may not be the "default graph" but it certainly applies to services that provide a fixed dataset
Andy Seaborne: this may not be the "default graph" but it certainly applies to services that provide a fixed dataset [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:29:56 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2005/01/yacker?name=SPARQL_11&replace=1&lang=perl#prod-SPARQL_11-ServiceGraphPattern
Eric Prud'hommeaux: http://www.w3.org/2005/01/yacker?name=SPARQL_11&replace=1&lang=perl#prod-SPARQL_11-ServiceGraphPattern ←
14:30:11 <pgearon> +q
Paula Gearon: +q ←
14:30:17 <AxelPolleres> eric: this is how it would look like with dataset clause
Eric Prud'hommeaux: this is how it would look like with dataset clause [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:30:41 <kasei> q-
Gregory Williams: q- ←
14:30:50 <AxelPolleres> ack pgearon
Axel Polleres: ack pgearon ←
14:31:07 <Zakim> +??P40
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P40 ←
14:31:10 <AlexPassant> Zakim, ??P40 is me
Alexandre Passant: Zakim, ??P40 is me ←
14:31:10 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexPassant; got it ←
14:31:20 <AxelPolleres> paul: wondering about interaction between fed doc and protocol
Paula Gearon: wondering about interaction between fed doc and protocol [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:31:22 <ericP> Definition: Evaluation of a Service Pattern
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Definition: Evaluation of a Service Pattern ←
14:31:33 <ericP> [[
Eric Prud'hommeaux: [[ ←
14:31:35 <ericP> where:Invocation(IRI, S, P, B) is an implementation of the SPARQL protocol
Eric Prud'hommeaux: where:Invocation(IRI, S, P, B) is an implementation of the SPARQL protocol ←
14:31:35 <ericP> * against endpoint IRI,
Eric Prud'hommeaux: * against endpoint IRI, ←
14:31:35 <ericP> * with a SELECT of S, WHERE pattern P, and BINDINGS B,
Eric Prud'hommeaux: * with a SELECT of S, WHERE pattern P, and BINDINGS B, ←
14:31:35 <ericP> * with no default-graph-uri or named-graph-uri (see SPARQL Protocol [SPROT] section 2.1.1.1),
Eric Prud'hommeaux: * with no default-graph-uri or named-graph-uri (see SPARQL Protocol [SPROT] section 2.1.1.1), ←
14:31:37 <pgearon> pgearon: does this issue require some interaction between the service keyword and the protocol document?
Paula Gearon: does this issue require some interaction between the service keyword and the protocol document? [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:31:38 <ericP> Execution failures cause the query to fail.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Execution failures cause the query to fail. ←
14:31:41 <ericP>
14:31:43 <ericP> ]]
Eric Prud'hommeaux: ]] ←
14:32:13 <AxelPolleres> D )
Axel Polleres: D ) ←
14:32:29 <AxelPolleres> q?
Axel Polleres: q? ←
14:33:46 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: Carlos and Eric, please look into this. Will follow up in 2 weeks
Axel Polleres: Carlos and Eric, please look into this. Will follow up in 2 weeks [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:33:56 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to ping carlos/eric in 2-3 weeks for progress on Fed query issues
ACTION: Axel to ping carlos/eric in 2-3 weeks for progress on Fed query issues ←
14:33:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-324 - Ping carlos/eric in 2-3 weeks for progress on Fed query issues [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-10-26].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-324 - Ping carlos/eric in 2-3 weeks for progress on Fed query issues [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-10-26]. ←
14:34:27 <pgearon> topic: Certainly bound vs. potentially bound
14:35:02 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: potentially bound is a syntactic definition. proposed to provide a stricter definition that requires binding
Axel Polleres: potentially bound is a syntactic definition. proposed to provide a stricter definition that requires binding [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:35:18 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: Use the mailing list for further discussion. kasei has some opinion there
Axel Polleres: Use the mailing list for further discussion. kasei has some opinion there [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:36:01 <AxelPolleres> topic: test cases
14:36:07 <pgearon> ericP: how stable is the grammar right now?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: how stable is the grammar right now? [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:36:21 <AxelPolleres> andyS: ISSUW-59 might still change the grammar
Andy Seaborne: ISSUW-59 might still change the grammar [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:36:23 <pgearon> AndyS: issue-59 may change the grammar, but it is not super volatile
Andy Seaborne: ISSUE-59 may change the grammar, but it is not super volatile [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:36:27 <Zakim> -EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP ←
14:36:49 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: fix the test case vocabulary
Axel Polleres: fix the test case vocabulary [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:36:55 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html ←
14:37:28 <AxelPolleres> ut:request for update actions
Axel Polleres: ut:request for update actions ←
14:38:02 <AxelPolleres> graphstore state
Axel Polleres: graphstore state ←
14:38:12 <AxelPolleres> ut:data ut:graphData
Axel Polleres: ut:data ut:graphData ←
14:39:03 <AxelPolleres> ut:graphData [ ut:data graph rdfs:label name ]
Axel Polleres: ut:graphData [ ut:data graph rdfs:label name ] ←
14:39:18 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: ut:graphData can allow graphs to be named
Axel Polleres: ut:graphData can allow graphs to be named [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:39:35 <AndyS> This second use of ut:data should be changed.
Andy Seaborne: This second use of ut:data should be changed. ←
14:39:41 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: some question on the domain of ut:data
Axel Polleres: some question on the domain of ut:data [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:39:53 <AxelPolleres> ... ut:graph instead ut:data ?
Axel Polleres: ... ut:graph instead ut:data ? ←
14:40:25 <AxelPolleres> would that be ok?
Axel Polleres: would that be ok? ←
14:40:35 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: Andy had a problem with reuse of ut:data, so I'm proposing to move to ut:graph
Axel Polleres: Andy had a problem with reuse of ut:data, so I'm proposing to move to ut:graph [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:40:38 <NickH> nope
Nicholas Humfrey: nope ←
14:40:42 <AxelPolleres> Can you still hear me?
Axel Polleres: Can you still hear me? ←
14:40:44 <AxelPolleres> :-)
Axel Polleres: :-) ←
14:40:58 <kasei> as long as all of the applicable tests are changed at the same time, I'm fine with mostly anything.
Gregory Williams: as long as all of the applicable tests are changed at the same time, I'm fine with mostly anything. ←
14:41:17 <NickH> sounds fine to me
Nicholas Humfrey: sounds fine to me ←
14:41:22 <AxelPolleres> paul: also for using a new predicate.
Paula Gearon: also for using a new predicate. [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:41:48 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: will change the nested use of ut:data to ut:graph
Axel Polleres: will change the nested use of ut:data to ut:graph [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:41:56 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to chang nested use of ut:data to ut:graph
ACTION: Axel to chang nested use of ut:data to ut:graph ←
14:41:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-325 - Chang nested use of ut:data to ut:graph [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-10-26].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-325 - Chang nested use of ut:data to ut:graph [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-10-26]. ←
14:42:24 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html#entailevaltests
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html#entailevaltests ←
14:42:31 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: updated test vocab will then be stable (IMO)
Axel Polleres: updated test vocab will then be stable (IMO) [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:43:03 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
14:43:48 <pgearon> AndyS: update vocab still. ut:result and others
Andy Seaborne: update vocab still. ut:result and others [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:44:12 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: this is longer, so voer entailments first and get back to it
Axel Polleres: this is longer, so voer entailments first and get back to it [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:44:13 <bglimm> seems ok
Birte Glimm: seems ok ←
14:44:15 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:44:16 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should no longer be muted ←
14:44:58 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: different entailment regimes for different graphs, may be possible, but would fix regime for the whole document
Axel Polleres: different entailment regimes for different graphs, may be possible, but would fix regime for the whole document [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:45:13 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me ←
14:45:13 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted ←
14:45:26 <chimezie> breaking in and out, Axel
Chimezie Ogbuji: breaking in and out, Axel ←
14:45:31 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: update use case descriptions
Axel Polleres: update use case descriptions [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:46:17 <kasei> AxelPolleres?
Gregory Williams: AxelPolleres? ←
14:46:34 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:46:34 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted ←
14:46:44 <AlexPassant> yes chimezie
Alexandre Passant: yes chimezie ←
14:46:54 <NickH> oh dear
Nicholas Humfrey: oh dear ←
14:46:58 <kasei> heh
Gregory Williams: heh ←
14:47:05 <pgearon> AxelPolleres may be having IP troubles
Paula Gearon: AxelPolleres may be having IP troubles ←
14:48:19 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to add a sentence in README.html that typically suffix .rq .ru are to be sused for query and update request files
ACTION: Axel to add a sentence in README.html that typically suffix .rq .ru are to be sused for query and update request files ←
14:48:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-326 - Add a sentence in README.html that typically suffix .rq .ru are to be sused for query and update request files [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-10-26].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-326 - Add a sentence in README.html that typically suffix .rq .ru are to be sused for query and update request files [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-10-26]. ←
14:48:47 <AxelPolleres> mf:result for update TCs...
Axel Polleres: mf:result for update TCs... ←
14:48:54 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, mute me ←
14:48:54 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted ←
14:49:02 <AxelPolleres> ... ut:success and ut:FAILUREMESSAGE
Axel Polleres: ... ut:success and ut:FAILUREMESSAGE ←
14:49:34 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: ut:FAILUREMESSSAGE is defined in the protocol document
Axel Polleres: ut:FAILUREMESSSAGE is defined in the protocol document [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:49:37 <AndyS> Note MIME registration for SPARQL Update suggests a extension.
Andy Seaborne: Note MIME registration for SPARQL Update suggests a extension. ←
14:50:09 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: looking for someone to define protocol test cases, and also a vocabulary for that
Axel Polleres: looking for someone to define protocol test cases, and also a vocabulary for that [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:50:13 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
14:50:32 <AxelPolleres> Andy, please go ahead...
Axel Polleres: Andy, please go ahead... ←
14:50:36 <bglimm> yes
Birte Glimm: yes ←
14:50:37 <chimezie> i can
Chimezie Ogbuji: i can ←
14:50:38 <NickH> I can AndyS
Nicholas Humfrey: I can AndyS ←
14:50:42 <pgearon> AndyS: don't think that's a good idea, for 2 reasons
Andy Seaborne: don't think that's a good idea, for 2 reasons [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:50:46 <AndyS> Axel can you hear me?
Andy Seaborne: Axel can you hear me? ←
14:50:57 <pgearon> Axel unable to hear Andy. Everyone else hears him
Paula Gearon: Axel unable to hear Andy. Everyone else hears him ←
14:50:58 <AxelPolleres> I will need to re-dail, I only hear my echo :-(
Axel Polleres: I will need to re-dail, I only hear my echo :-( ←
14:50:58 <chimezie> Axel, if you can see this it seems as if the communication is one way on your line
Chimezie Ogbuji: Axel, if you can see this it seems as if the communication is one way on your line ←
14:51:05 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
Zakim IRC Bot: -AxelPolleres ←
14:52:52 <AxelPolleres> :-( hardware problem on the telephone :-(
Axel Polleres: :-( hardware problem on the telephone :-( ←
14:53:16 <pgearon> AndyS - perhaps you can outline, and Axel will see it on IRC?
Paula Gearon: AndyS - perhaps you can outline, and Axel will see it on IRC? ←
14:53:31 <AxelPolleres> hmmm, sincere apologies...
Axel Polleres: hmmm, sincere apologies... ←
14:53:38 <AxelPolleres> let's try with chat...
Axel Polleres: let's try with chat... ←
14:53:51 <pgearon> AndyS: 2 problems. First, we need format stabilized so people can write test code parsing against it
Andy Seaborne: 2 problems. First, we need format stabilized so people can write test code parsing against it [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:53:54 <AxelPolleres> ... seems I can't solve the phone issue quickly.
Axel Polleres: ... seems I can't solve the phone issue quickly. ←
14:54:17 <AxelPolleres> +1 on that.
Axel Polleres: +1 on that. ←
14:54:40 <pgearon> AndyS: we have a list of errors in the README that don't make sense to me
Andy Seaborne: we have a list of errors in the README that don't make sense to me [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:55:04 <pgearon> AndyS: list - SUCCESS, REQUEST REFUSED, SYNTAX ERROR
Andy Seaborne: list - SUCCESS, REQUEST REFUSED, SYNTAX ERROR [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:55:19 <pgearon> AndyS: SYNTAX ERRORS should be in syntax errors
Andy Seaborne: SYNTAX ERRORS should be in syntax errors [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:55:31 <pgearon> AndyS: what should the errors be targetting?
Andy Seaborne: what should the errors be targetting? [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:56:43 <AxelPolleres> the errors in the doc came from protocol
Axel Polleres: the errors in the doc came from protocol ←
14:56:51 <AlexPassant> unexistent graph ?
Alexandre Passant: unexistent graph ? ←
14:57:26 <AxelPolleres> I'd be ok to go without ut:success and the errors for the moment... but we'd want to have test cases for protocol as well, I assume?
Axel Polleres: I'd be ok to go without ut:success and the errors for the moment... but we'd want to have test cases for protocol as well, I assume? ←
14:57:32 <Zakim> -Chimezie_Ogbuji
Zakim IRC Bot: -Chimezie_Ogbuji ←
14:57:42 <pgearon> AndyS: insert data, and possibly other operations do automatic graph creation. Are there cases where all stores must signal an error in some conditions?
Andy Seaborne: insert data, and possibly other operations do automatic graph creation. Are there cases where all stores must signal an error in some conditions? [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:57:52 <AxelPolleres> we'd need someone voluteering for TCs and TC structure for protocol...
Axel Polleres: we'd need someone voluteering for TCs and TC structure for protocol... ←
14:57:55 <AxelPolleres> any volunteer?
Axel Polleres: any volunteer? ←
14:58:38 <pgearon> AndyS: is that an error for stores that can't tell the difference between no graph and empty graph
Andy Seaborne: is that an error for stores that can't tell the difference between no graph and empty graph [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:59:39 <pgearon> AndyS: made assumption that loading a graph that doesn't exist to automatically create the graph.
Andy Seaborne: made assumption that loading a graph that doesn't exist to automatically create the graph. [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
14:59:47 <AlexPassant> "In case no RDF data can be retrieved from documentURI, the SPARQL 1.1 Update service is expected to return failure."
Alexandre Passant: "In case no RDF data can be retrieved from documentURI, the SPARQL 1.1 Update service is expected to return failure." ←
14:59:52 <AlexPassant> I meant does not exist *remotely*
Alexandre Passant: I meant does not exist *remotely* ←
14:59:53 <pgearon> AndyS: propose taking this to email to get a definitive list
Andy Seaborne: propose taking this to email to get a definitive list [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
15:00:05 <AndyS> ah! I understand now.
Andy Seaborne: ah! I understand now. ←
15:00:11 <AxelPolleres> for now, would people be ok with the update TC format, if we just drop the ut:success/ut:FAILORCODE stuff for updateEvaluationTests?
Axel Polleres: for now, would people be ok with the update TC format, if we just drop the ut:success/ut:FAILORCODE stuff for updateEvaluationTests? ←
15:00:48 <AxelPolleres> agree to take this on email.
Axel Polleres: agree to take this on email. ←
15:00:52 <AndyS> Yes. Haven't read it with all the changes but looks OK.
Andy Seaborne: Yes. Haven't read it with all the changes but looks OK. ←
15:01:00 <AxelPolleres> sincere apologies for the technical problames again.
Axel Polleres: sincere apologies for the technical problames again. ←
15:01:34 <AndyS> BTW need different syntax tests for query and update.
Andy Seaborne: BTW need different syntax tests for query and update. ←
15:01:49 <AxelPolleres> Can others add support for that proposal with +1 ... "drop ut:success/ut:FAILORCODE for now for update TC format" ?
Axel Polleres: Can others add support for that proposal with +1 ... "drop ut:success/ut:FAILORCODE for now for update TC format" ? ←
15:02:01 <AxelPolleres> if no opposition, I will implement this...
Axel Polleres: if no opposition, I will implement this... ←
15:02:15 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:02:15 <AlexPassant> I'll be at ISWC
Alexandre Passant: I'll be at ISWC ←
15:02:16 <pgearon> telephone portion of this meeting appears to have wrapped up
Paula Gearon: telephone portion of this meeting appears to have wrapped up ←
15:02:17 <AndyS> +1
Andy Seaborne: +1 ←
15:02:21 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should no longer be muted ←
15:02:26 <AxelPolleres> but as I can't hear you, I;d like some support on the ICR
Axel Polleres: but as I can't hear you, I;d like some support on the IRC ←
15:02:32 <AxelPolleres> s/ICR/IRC/
15:02:40 <pgearon> topic: Telco availability and ISWC
15:02:45 <pgearon> AndyS: when are people leaving for ISWC? How many meetings will be missed?
Andy Seaborne: when are people leaving for ISWC? How many meetings will be missed? [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
15:02:47 <bglimm> I leave on Friday 5th comming back on Mon 15th
Birte Glimm: I leave on Friday 5th comming back on Mon 15th ←
15:02:55 <AlexPassant> be away for 2 telcos (5->21)
Alexandre Passant: be away for 2 telcos (5->21) ←
15:02:57 <Zakim> -Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: -Souri ←
15:03:06 <pgearon> bglimm: going Friday, so only missing 1
Birte Glimm: going Friday, so only missing 1 [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
15:03:16 <AlexPassant> AxelPolleres: fine with your proposal
Axel Polleres: fine with your proposal [ Scribe Assist by Alexandre Passant ] ←
15:03:33 <Zakim> -MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: -MattPerry ←
15:03:33 <AxelPolleres> ok, I have two supports... I will go ahead with that and send around mail.
Axel Polleres: ok, I have two supports... I will go ahead with that and send around mail. ←
15:03:42 <pgearon> thanks Axel
Paula Gearon: thanks Axel ←
15:03:49 <AndyS> ADJOURNED
Andy Seaborne: ADJOURNED ←
15:03:54 <pgearon> AndyS: we're now adjourned
Andy Seaborne: we're now adjourned [ Scribe Assist by Paula Gearon ] ←
15:03:59 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to drop ut:success and ut:FAILURECODES from update TC vocab.
ACTION: Axel to drop ut:success and ut:FAILURECODES from update TC vocab. ←
15:03:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-327 - Drop ut:success and ut:FAILURECODES from update TC vocab. [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-10-26].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-327 - Drop ut:success and ut:FAILURECODES from update TC vocab. [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-10-26]. ←
15:04:35 <AxelPolleres> Thanks for keeping on, we seem at least to have some format for UC and entailment tests now... approval hopefully next time.
Axel Polleres: Thanks for keeping on, we seem at least to have some format for UC and entailment tests now... approval hopefully next time. ←
15:04:58 <Zakim> -bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: -bglimm ←
15:04:59 <NickH> bye all!
Nicholas Humfrey: bye all! ←
15:05:00 <AxelPolleres> Please, all TC providers, work through your unapproved TCs following this conclusion.
Axel Polleres: Please, all TC providers, work through your unapproved TCs following this conclusion. ←
15:05:02 <Zakim> -NickH
Zakim IRC Bot: -NickH ←
15:05:03 <AxelPolleres> THanks all!
Axel Polleres: THanks all! ←
15:05:06 <AxelPolleres> Bye
Axel Polleres: Bye ←
15:05:22 <Zakim> -kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei ←
15:05:25 <Zakim> -pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgearon ←
15:05:28 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
15:05:34 <cbuilara> -cbuilara
Carlos Buil Aranda: -cbuilara ←
15:05:41 <Zakim> -cbuilara
Zakim IRC Bot: -cbuilara ←
15:05:46 <cbuilara> bye
Carlos Buil Aranda: bye ←
15:06:00 <Zakim> -AlexPassant
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexPassant ←
15:06:02 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended ←
15:06:03 <Zakim> Attendees were kasei, MattPerry, AxelPolleres, cbuilara, AndyS, bglimm, Chimezie_Ogbuji, Souri, pgearon, AlexPassant, EricP, NickH
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were kasei, MattPerry, AxelPolleres, cbuilara, AndyS, bglimm, Chimezie_Ogbuji, Souri, pgearon, AlexPassant, EricP, NickH ←
Formatted by CommonScribe