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15:00:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/07/30-sparql-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/07/30-sparql-irc ←
15:00:52 <LeeF> zakim, room for 10 for 90 minutes?
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, room for 10 for 90 minutes? ←
15:00:54 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; conference Team_(sparql)15:00Z scheduled with code 772775 (SPARQL) for 90 minutes until 1630Z
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, LeeF; conference Team_(sparql)15:00Z scheduled with code 772775 (SPARQL) for 90 minutes until 1630Z ←
15:00:57 <LeeF> thanks, zakim
Lee Feigenbaum: thanks, zakim ←
15:01:08 <LeeF> RRSAgent, make logs world
Lee Feigenbaum: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
15:01:18 <LeeF> Meeting: SPARQL WG dedicated meeting on formal update model
15:01:20 <bglimm> Zakim, passcode?
Birte Glimm: Zakim, passcode? ←
15:01:20 <Zakim> the conference code is 772775 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 772775 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), bglimm ←
15:01:22 <Zakim> Team_(sparql)15:00Z has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: Team_(sparql)15:00Z has now started ←
15:01:29 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:01:34 <AndyS> zkim, [IPCaller] is me
Andy Seaborne: zkim, [IPCaller] is me ←
15:01:35 <Zakim> +pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon ←
15:01:38 <AndyS> zakim, [IPCaller] is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, [IPCaller] is me ←
15:01:38 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
15:01:46 <Zakim> +??P13
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13 ←
15:01:47 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum
Zakim IRC Bot: +Lee_Feigenbaum ←
15:02:00 <Zakim> +bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm ←
15:02:06 <AlexPassant> Zakim, ??P13 is me
Alexandre Passant: Zakim, ??P13 is me ←
15:02:06 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexPassant; got it ←
15:02:11 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me ←
15:02:11 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted ←
15:02:23 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
15:02:27 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:02:39 <kasei> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
Gregory Williams: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me ←
15:02:39 <Zakim> +kasei; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei; got it ←
15:03:02 <LeeF> zakim, who's here?
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's here? ←
15:03:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, pgearon, Lee_Feigenbaum, AlexPassant, bglimm (muted), Sandro, kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AndyS, pgearon, Lee_Feigenbaum, AlexPassant, bglimm (muted), Sandro, kasei ←
15:03:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, AndyS, bglimm, LeeF, SteveH, AlexPassant, pgearon, iv_an_ru, karl, sandro, trackbot, kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, AndyS, bglimm, LeeF, SteveH, AlexPassant, pgearon, iv_an_ru, karl, sandro, trackbot, kasei ←
15:03:26 <LeeF> Scribenick: AndyS
(Scribe set to Andy Seaborne)
15:03:56 <AndyS> LeeF: it's Friday ...
Lee Feigenbaum: it's Friday ... ←
15:04:33 <AndyS> ... intent: find the approach for a formal model of update
... intent: find the approach for a formal model of update ←
15:04:50 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres
Zakim IRC Bot: +AxelPolleres ←
15:04:54 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:04:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, pgearon, Lee_Feigenbaum, AlexPassant, bglimm (muted), Sandro, kasei, AxelPolleres
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AndyS, pgearon, Lee_Feigenbaum, AlexPassant, bglimm (muted), Sandro, kasei, AxelPolleres ←
15:05:05 <AndyS> ... goal - leave meeting with material for Paul and Alex (or other volunteer) to craft text
... goal - leave meeting with material for Paul and Alex (or other volunteer) to craft text ←
15:05:37 <LeeF> Lee: how does query's model work?
Lee Feigenbaum: how does query's model work? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:05:44 <LeeF> AndyS: you have a string in your hand - what is the right answer to come out?
Andy Seaborne: you have a string in your hand - what is the right answer to come out? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:05:54 <LeeF> ... 1. parse the syntax into an abstract syntax tree
Lee Feigenbaum: ... 1. parse the syntax into an abstract syntax tree ←
15:06:12 <LeeF> ... (expands out syntax shortcuts, etc.)
Lee Feigenbaum: ... (expands out syntax shortcuts, etc.) ←
15:06:28 <LeeF> ... 2. run a fixed algorithm to turn the abstract syntax into the algebra
Lee Feigenbaum: ... 2. run a fixed algorithm to turn the abstract syntax into the algebra ←
15:06:32 <LeeF> ... 3. evaluate the algebra
Lee Feigenbaum: ... 3. evaluate the algebra ←
15:06:44 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:06:46 <LeeF> ... somewhat repetitive - close relationhsip between the terms in the algebra and their evaluation
Lee Feigenbaum: ... somewhat repetitive - close relationhsip between the terms in the algebra and their evaluation ←
15:06:51 <SteveH> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
Steve Harris: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me ←
15:06:51 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it ←
15:07:50 <AndyS> LeeF - approaches include model theory, procedural style in SPARQL, other
LeeF - approaches include model theory, procedural style in SPARQL, other ←
15:08:31 <AndyS> ... suggestion: take the procedural style for SPARQL Update.
... suggestion: take the procedural style for SPARQL Update. ←
15:08:55 <AxelPolleres> in principle, sounds fine, depends on how we define "procedural"
Axel Polleres: in principle, sounds fine, depends on how we define "procedural" ←
15:09:20 <AxelPolleres> +1 to update mapping from one set/state to another
Axel Polleres: +1 to update mapping from one set/state to another ←
15:09:23 <AndyS> Paul, update are a mapping from GS to GS, variations of this (GS-1,2,3)
Paul, update are a mapping from GS to GS, variations of this (GS-1,2,3) ←
15:09:32 <AndyS> Paul: update are a mapping from GS to GS, variations of this (GS-1,2,3)
Paula Gearon: update are a mapping from GS to GS, variations of this (GS-1,2,3) ←
15:09:45 <AndyS> ... implementation follow the data structure style
... implementation follow the data structure style ←
15:10:07 <AndyS> .. there is potential disconnect there
.. there is potential disconnect there ←
15:10:19 <AndyS> LeeF: experience, prefer functional style
Lee Feigenbaum: experience, prefer functional style ←
15:11:01 <AndyS> Input - http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Lees_Update_Graph_Model
Input - http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Lees_Update_Graph_Model ←
15:11:15 <AxelPolleres> have put some draft of what I think, which apart from the redefinition of Dataset should work in my mail http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0126.html I think Andy had some similar proposals in another mail... can't find it at the moment.
Axel Polleres: have put some draft of what I think, which apart from the redefinition of Dataset should work in my mail http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0126.html I think Andy had some similar proposals in another mail... can't find it at the moment. ←
15:11:33 <AndyS> Input - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0127.html
Input - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0127.html ←
15:12:07 <AndyS> Paul: Mulgara is immutable structures for transactionality (single writer)
Paula Gearon: Mulgara is immutable structures for transactionality (single writer) ←
15:12:22 <AxelPolleres> Andy, I think you had something more concrete on the semantics of various operations in some earlier mail, can't find it at the moment, maybe I misremember
Axel Polleres: Andy, I think you had something more concrete on the semantics of various update operations in some earlier mail, can't find it at the moment, maybe I misremember ←
15:12:40 <AndyS> LeeF: Spec helps for test cases - links formal defns to practical implementation
Lee Feigenbaum: Spec helps for test cases - links formal defns to practical implementation ←
15:12:43 <AxelPolleres> s/various operations/various update operations/
15:13:14 <AndyS> /em coudl yo ufind it? was it http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0125.html [scribing...]
/em coudl yo ufind it? was it http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0125.html [scribing...] ←
15:13:48 <AxelPolleres> q+
Axel Polleres: q+ ←
15:14:05 <AndyS> LeeF: is an update operation from GS to GS?
Lee Feigenbaum: is an update operation from GS to GS? ←
15:14:51 <AxelPolleres> I thought "Graphstore" could also use the definition of dataset, meaning that a graphstore
Axel Polleres: I thought "Graphstore" could also use the definition of dataset, meaning that a graphstore ←
15:14:51 <AxelPolleres> is defined by a sequence of datasets DS_0 to DS_n determined by a sequence of
Axel Polleres: is defined by a sequence of datasets DS_0 to DS_n determined by a sequence of ←
15:14:52 <AxelPolleres> updates: Starting with DS_0 being the empty or initial dataset,
Scribe problem: the name 'updates' does not match any of the 64 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ahmed Ezzat Alexandre Passant Andrea Westerinen Andrei Lopatenko Andy Seaborne Axel Polleres Bijan Parsia Birte Glimm Bryan Thompson Carlos Buil Aranda Chimezie Ogbuji Cui Tao Daniel Schutzer Dave Beckett David Charboneau David Newman Davide Palmisano Dhanapalan Kulandai Vadivel Dirk Colaert Dirk-Willem van Gulik Edward Thomas Elias Torres Enrico Franconi Eric Prud'hommeaux Frank Careccia Fred Zemke Gregory Williams Hiroyuki Sato Ivan Mikhailov Ivan Herman Jacek Kopecký Jari Vänttinen Jean-François Baget Jeen Broekstra Jeff Pollock John Clark Jos De Roo Kendall Clark Kevin Wilkinson Lee Feigenbaum Luke Wilson-Mawer Matthew Perry Michael Smith Michele Minno Nicholas Humfrey Nophadol Jekjantuk Olivier Corby Orri Erling Paula Gearon Prateek Jain Rachel Yager Roland Schwaenzl Sandro Hawke Sergio Tessaris Simon Johnston Souripriya Das Steve Harris Sven Groppe Timo Westkämper Tommi Koivula Yoshio Fukushige Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown updates: Starting with DS_0 being the empty or initial dataset, [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
15:14:52 <AxelPolleres> the "current dataset" after the n-th update is simply DS_n.
Axel Polleres: the "current dataset" after the n-th update is simply DS_n. ←
15:15:04 <AndyS> Sandro: what about GS-state to GS-state?
Sandro Hawke: what about GS-state to GS-state? ←
15:15:10 <LeeF> service <-> graphstore <-> state1 -> state2 -> state3 etc.
Lee Feigenbaum: service <-> graphstore <-> state1 -> state2 -> state3 etc. ←
15:15:19 <LeeF> ack AxelPolleres
Lee Feigenbaum: ack AxelPolleres ←
15:17:22 <AndyS> Axel: key is define state DS(n-1) -> DS(n)
Axel Polleres: key is define state DS(n-1) -> DS(n) ←
15:17:43 <AndyS> LeeF: what is the state of a GS? is it a DS?
Lee Feigenbaum: what is the state of a GS? is it a DS? ←
15:18:08 <AxelPolleres> Axel: thinks that the state of a graph store should be representable as an RDF dataset
Axel Polleres: thinks that the state of a graph store should be representable as an RDF dataset [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
15:18:46 <LeeF> Is a GS-state the same as an RDF dataset? a pair of (graph, Set of Pairs of (Name, Graph))
Lee Feigenbaum: Is a GS-state the same as an RDF dataset? a pair of (graph, Set of Pairs of (Name, Graph)) ←
15:18:50 <AlexPassant> "state of a GS is a DS at a particular time" might be better
Alexandre Passant: "state of a GS is a DS at a particular time" might be better ←
15:19:04 <AxelPolleres> alex, works for me.
Axel Polleres: alex, works for me. ←
15:19:05 <AlexPassant> (graph, set of pairs, T)
Alexandre Passant: (graph, set of pairs, T) ←
15:19:23 <AlexPassant> so we have (graph, set of pairs, Ta) -> operation -> (graph, set of paris, Tb)
Alexandre Passant: so we have (graph, set of pairs, Ta) -> operation -> (graph, set of paris, Tb) ←
15:20:05 <AxelPolleres> I used T_n T_n+1 to indicate that I mean that to be atomic, i.e time here being meant discrete, nothing happening in between
Axel Polleres: I used T_n T_n+1 to indicate that I mean that to be atomic, i.e time here being meant discrete, nothing happening in between ←
15:20:21 <AndyS> LeeF: do we agree that the state of a GS is a DS or similar?
Lee Feigenbaum: do we agree that the state of a GS is a DS or similar? ←
15:20:25 <pgearon> I'm happy with that definition
Paula Gearon: I'm happy with that definition ←
15:20:53 <AlexPassant> agreed with that AxelPolleres (re. atomicity)
Alexandre Passant: agreed with that AxelPolleres (re. atomicity) ←
15:21:31 <sandro> +1 this meeting is gathering advice for editors, not constraints for them.
Sandro Hawke: +1 this meeting is gathering advice for editors, not constraints for them. ←
15:21:45 <AndyS> LeeF: What is the concept of the time here?
Lee Feigenbaum: What is the concept of the time here? ←
15:22:16 <AndyS> Alex: discrete time, point-wise transitions to new state
Alexandre Passant: discrete time, point-wise transitions to new state ←
15:22:58 <LeeF> GS - graph store
Lee Feigenbaum: GS - graph store ←
15:23:02 <LeeF> GSS - graph store state
Lee Feigenbaum: GSS - graph store state ←
15:23:05 <LeeF> DS - rdf dataset
Lee Feigenbaum: DS - rdf dataset ←
15:23:12 <LeeF> Op - Update operation
Lee Feigenbaum: Op - Update operation ←
15:23:15 <LeeF> Req - Update request
Lee Feigenbaum: Req - Update request ←
15:23:18 <AxelPolleres> rather, a graphstore is a "state machine" that moves from one state to another by update operations.
Axel Polleres: rather, a graphstore is a "state machine" that moves from one state to another by update operations. ←
15:23:30 <LeeF> Op - a function from GSS -> GSS
Lee Feigenbaum: Op - a function from GSS -> GSS ←
15:23:48 <AndyS> That is the service that is the state machine? Or is that the same?
That is the service that is the state machine? Or is that the same? ←
15:24:01 <AxelPolleres> so, op is the state transition function, which semantics we have to define in terms of pre and post state
Axel Polleres: so, op is the state transition function, which semantics we have to define in terms of pre and post state ←
15:24:06 <LeeF> Req is Op1, Op2, Op3 - GSS -> GSS - Op3(Op2(Op1(GSS0)))
Lee Feigenbaum: Req is Op1, Op2, Op3 - GSS -> GSS - Op3(Op2(Op1(GSS0))) ←
15:24:23 <AndyS> +1
+1 ←
15:24:31 <pgearon> +1
Paula Gearon: +1 ←
15:24:35 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
15:24:36 <AxelPolleres> looks ok
Axel Polleres: looks ok ←
15:24:37 <AlexPassant> +1
Alexandre Passant: +1 ←
15:24:59 <AndyS> (it says to me the Req is atomic ++)
(it says to me the Req is atomic ++) ←
15:25:29 <LeeF> LOAD - http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml#t417
Lee Feigenbaum: LOAD - http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml#t417 ←
15:25:43 <LeeF> "http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml#t417"
Lee Feigenbaum: "http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml#t417" ←
15:25:52 <LeeF> LOAD <documentURI> [ INTO GRAPH <uri> ]
Lee Feigenbaum: LOAD <documentURI> [ INTO GRAPH <uri> ] ←
15:26:14 <AxelPolleres> LOAD <documentURI> [ INTO GRAPH <gnew> ]
Axel Polleres: LOAD <documentURI> [ INTO GRAPH <gnew> ] ←
15:26:14 <AxelPolleres> this means
Axel Polleres: this means ←
15:26:14 <AxelPolleres> DS_{t+1} = DS_t union {(<gnew>_t, G_<gnew>)}
Axel Polleres: DS_{t+1} = DS_t union {(<gnew>_t, G_<gnew>)} ←
15:26:26 <AxelPolleres> something like that...
Axel Polleres: something like that... ←
15:27:36 <SteveH> why <gnew>_t ?
Steve Harris: why <gnew>_t ? ←
15:27:38 <AndyS> DS1 is DS[0 with G replaced by GET <uri>
DS1 is DS[0 with G replaced by GET <uri> ←
15:27:57 <AxelPolleres> DS_{t+1} = DS_t union {(<gnew>, G_<gnew>)}
Axel Polleres: DS_{t+1} = DS_t union {(<gnew>, G_<gnew>)} ←
15:28:05 <AndyS> .. notation for graph in datatset? DS[g]?
.. notation for graph in datatset? DS[g]? ←
15:28:31 <AxelPolleres> DS_{t+1} = DS_t union {(<gnew>, G_<documentURI>)}
Axel Polleres: DS_{t+1} = DS_t union {(<gnew>, G_<documentURI>)} ←
15:28:41 <AndyS> DS_{t+1} = DS_t \ {(<v>, old)} union {(<gnew>, G_<gnew>)}
DS_{t+1} = DS_t \ {(<v>, old)} union {(<gnew>, G_<gnew>)} ←
15:28:47 <AxelPolleres> if graph is already there...
Axel Polleres: if graph is already there... ←
15:28:58 <AxelPolleres> LOAD <documentURI> [ INTO GRAPH <g> ]
Axel Polleres: LOAD <documentURI> [ INTO GRAPH <g> ] ←
15:29:00 <AxelPolleres> means
Axel Polleres: means ←
15:29:23 <AndyS> just take the old one out regard less with \ {(<g>, any)}
just take the old one out regard less with \ {(<g>, any)} ←
15:29:34 <SteveH> +1
Steve Harris: +1 ←
15:29:48 <AxelPolleres> DS_t { .... (<g>, G) ... }
Axel Polleres: DS_t { .... (<g>, G) ... } ←
15:29:50 <AxelPolleres> =>
Axel Polleres: => ←
15:30:17 <SteveH> some people have triplestore, not quadstores
Steve Harris: some people have triplestore, not quadstores ←
15:30:31 <AxelPolleres> DS_t+1 = { (<g>, G merge G_<documentURI>) }
Axel Polleres: DS_t+1 = { (<g>, G merge G_<documentURI>) } ←
15:30:37 <LeeF> GRAPH ?g { } # test if graph exists
Lee Feigenbaum: GRAPH ?g { } # test if graph exists ←
15:30:40 <AxelPolleres> or alike
Axel Polleres: or alike ←
15:31:03 <LeeF> Sandro: is the difference between pairs and quads the existence of empty graphs?
Sandro Hawke: is the difference between pairs and quads the existence of empty graphs? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:31:08 <LeeF> AndyS: yes
Andy Seaborne: yes [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:31:11 <LeeF> sandro: is this observable?
Sandro Hawke: is this observable? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:31:14 <LeeF> AndyS: yes
Andy Seaborne: yes [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:31:30 <Zakim> -AlexPassant
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexPassant ←
15:32:21 <AndyS> CREATE GRAPH <uri> should cause GRAPH ?g {} to show <uri>
CREATE GRAPH <uri> should cause GRAPH ?g {} to show <uri> ←
15:32:35 <SteveH> AndyS, could, not should
Steve Harris: AndyS, could, not should ←
15:33:25 <LeeF> sandro: a no-op for CREATE will pass whatever test we have since implementations are allowed to prune empty graphs, so we should be able to define the semantics using quads
Sandro Hawke: a no-op for CREATE will pass whatever test we have since implementations are allowed to prune empty graphs, so we should be able to define the semantics using quads [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:33:44 <SteveH> I agree with sandro, about defining in terms of quads would work, but I'm not sure it's easier
Steve Harris: I agree with sandro, about defining in terms of quads would work, but I'm not sure it's easier ←
15:34:28 <Zakim> +??P2
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P2 ←
15:34:31 <AlexPassant> Zakim, ??P2 is me
Alexandre Passant: Zakim, ??P2 is me ←
15:34:31 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexPassant; got it ←
15:34:46 <AxelPolleres> do we need to devlare the behaviour of operations for both graph-aware and non-graph-aware stores?
Axel Polleres: do we need to devlare the behaviour of operations for both graph-aware and non-graph-aware stores? ←
15:35:35 <AndyS> Quads are an implmentation technique we should respect but the defn should be graphs as RDF is about graphs.
Quads are an implmentation technique we should respect but the defn should be graphs as RDF is about graphs. ←
15:35:56 <AndyS> Quads have problems with the default graph.
Quads have problems with the default graph. ←
15:36:41 <LeeF> sandro: do we have any way in the test suite setup of saying that either of 2 results would be ok?
Sandro Hawke: do we have any way in the test suite setup of saying that either of 2 results would be ok? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:36:51 <LeeF> AndyS: we have 1 case of that right now in query
Andy Seaborne: we have 1 case of that right now in query [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:36:53 <AxelPolleres> q+ to ask/talk about update test cases
Axel Polleres: q+ to ask/talk about update test cases ←
15:37:04 <LeeF> AndyS: there are 2 different tests to capture both possibilities
Andy Seaborne: there are 2 different tests to capture both possibilities [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:37:39 <LeeF> AndyS: we could divide places where they are different into 2 sets and implementers choose which set to run
Andy Seaborne: we could divide places where they are different into 2 sets and implementers choose which set to run [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:37:44 <SteveH> +1 to not writing tests where their different :)
Steve Harris: +1 to not writing tests where their different :) ←
15:37:46 <LeeF> ... other option is not to write the tests where they are different
Lee Feigenbaum: ... other option is not to write the tests where they are different ←
15:38:11 <LeeF> ack AxelPolleres
Lee Feigenbaum: ack AxelPolleres ←
15:38:11 <Zakim> AxelPolleres, you wanted to ask/talk about update test cases
Zakim IRC Bot: AxelPolleres, you wanted to ask/talk about update test cases ←
15:38:55 <AndyS> Another matter for quads is the lack of std quads format.
Another matter for quads is the lack of std quads format. ←
15:39:41 <AndyS> LeeF: could have two tests, one with pruning, one without
Lee Feigenbaum: could have two tests, one with pruning, one without ←
15:40:13 <AndyS> Axel: tests defined in state-before, ans state-after and mark tests "foro graph aware GS"
Axel Polleres: tests defined in state-before, and state-after and mark tests "for graph aware GS" ←
15:40:20 <AndyS> s/ans/and/
15:40:31 <AndyS> s/foro/for/
15:41:03 <AxelPolleres> SELECT ?S ?P ?O WHERE { ?S ?P ?O OPTIONAL { GRAPH ?G {?S ?P ?O } } } would be an (ugly) way to query the graphstore state, if we assume graphstore tied to default dataset
Axel Polleres: SELECT ?S ?P ?O WHERE { ?S ?P ?O OPTIONAL { GRAPH ?G {?S ?P ?O } } } would be an (ugly) way to query the graphstore state, if we assume graphstore tied to default dataset ←
15:41:15 <SteveH> ...what about if we said GRAPH ?g { } always returned nothing?
Steve Harris: ...what about if we said GRAPH ?g { } always returned nothing? ←
15:41:43 <iv_an_ru> +1
Ivan Mikhailov: +1 ←
15:41:56 <LeeF> SteveH, that would be a nonstarter for me, I believe
Lee Feigenbaum: SteveH, that would be a nonstarter for me, I believe ←
15:42:00 <SteveH> ok
Steve Harris: ok ←
15:42:42 <LeeF> CREATE GRAPH G --> if G exists, error or nothing ; else if GSS0 = (UG0, NGS0, T0) then CREATE(GSS0, G) = (UG0, NGS0 union (G, {}), T0+1)
Lee Feigenbaum: CREATE GRAPH G --> if G exists, error or nothing ; else if GSS0 = (UG0, NGS0, T0) then CREATE(GSS0, G) = (UG0, NGS0 union (G, {}), T0+1) ←
15:42:50 <AxelPolleres> in test cases we might need to distunguish the behavior of graph-aware and non-graph-aware update-endpoints
Axel Polleres: in test cases we might need to distunguish the behavior of graph-aware and non-graph-aware update-endpoints ←
15:43:10 <AndyS> Confusing if GRAPH ?g { } = nothing but GRAPH ?G {?S ?P ?O } something
Confusing if GRAPH ?g { } = nothing but GRAPH ?G {?S ?P ?O } something ←
15:43:27 <SteveH> not really, but doesn't seem to be a popular idea
Steve Harris: not really, but doesn't seem to be a popular idea ←
15:43:50 <iv_an_ru> AxelPolleres, agree re. tests.
Ivan Mikhailov: AxelPolleres, agree re. tests. ←
15:44:21 <LeeF> AndyS: the way to do this is to define the operations with empty graphs, and then note that implicit pruning may go on
Andy Seaborne: the way to do this is to define the operations with empty graphs, and then note that implicit pruning may go on [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:44:39 <SteveH> I don't like the term "graph aware" FWIW, I think it's confusing
Steve Harris: I don't like the term "graph aware" FWIW, I think it's confusing ←
15:44:56 <AndyS> Axel: section on "graph aware" and "graph pruning" stores
Axel Polleres: section on "graph aware" and "graph pruning" stores ←
15:45:07 <SteveH> or two sets of results, either of which is ok
Steve Harris: or two sets of results, either of which is ok ←
15:45:14 <AndyS> (better to mention graph graphs)
(better to mention graph graphs) ←
15:46:07 <AndyS> sandro: concern of interoperability in the market
Sandro Hawke: concern of interoperability in the market ←
15:47:29 <AndyS> LeeF: looks like there is some work to be done but general direction is appearing
Lee Feigenbaum: looks like there is some work to be done but general direction is appearing ←
15:48:10 <sandro> sandro: let's not formalize two classes of sparql end points (graph aware and non-graph aware), eg in the test suite, since doing so would fragment the market.
Sandro Hawke: let's not formalize two classes of sparql end points (graph aware and non-graph aware), eg in the test suite, since doing so would fragment the market. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:48:25 <AndyS> pattern -> solution sequence -> instantiate a sets of triples for each GRAPH mentioned (and dft graph) -> make changes
pattern -> solution sequence -> instantiate a sets of triples for each GRAPH mentioned (and dft graph) -> make changes ←
15:49:31 <pgearon> yes
Paula Gearon: yes ←
15:49:32 <AlexPassant> sounds ok for me
Alexandre Passant: sounds ok for me ←
15:50:26 <pgearon> missing considerations is my only concern at this point, but I can't think of any at the moment
Paula Gearon: missing considerations is my only concern at this point, but I can't think of any at the moment ←
15:50:32 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
15:50:34 <Zakim> -Lee_Feigenbaum
Zakim IRC Bot: -Lee_Feigenbaum ←
15:50:35 <Zakim> -bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: -bglimm ←
15:50:36 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
Zakim IRC Bot: -AxelPolleres ←
15:50:36 <LeeF> AndyS, thanks for scribing
Lee Feigenbaum: AndyS, thanks for scribing ←
15:50:36 <pgearon> OK, thank you
Paula Gearon: OK, thank you ←
15:50:36 <Zakim> -AlexPassant
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexPassant ←
15:50:49 <Zakim> -pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgearon ←
15:50:53 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
15:50:54 <SteveH> bye
Steve Harris: bye ←
15:51:01 <Zakim> -SteveH
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH ←
15:51:55 <Zakim> -kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei ←
15:51:56 <Zakim> Team_(sparql)15:00Z has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: Team_(sparql)15:00Z has ended ←
15:51:58 <Zakim> Attendees were pgearon, AndyS, Lee_Feigenbaum, bglimm, AlexPassant, Sandro, kasei, AxelPolleres, SteveH
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were pgearon, AndyS, Lee_Feigenbaum, bglimm, AlexPassant, Sandro, kasei, AxelPolleres, SteveH ←
16:22:28 <AlexPassant> RRSAgent: create minutes
(No events recorded for 30 minutes)
16:22:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/30-sparql-minutes.html AlexPassant
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/30-sparql-minutes.html AlexPassant ←
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