14:46:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/11/24-sparql-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/11/24-sparql-irc ←
14:46:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:46:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277 ←
14:46:20 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes ←
14:46:20 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SPARQL
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, this will be SPARQL ←
14:46:21 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:46:21 <trackbot> Date: 24 November 2009
14:46:22 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes ←
14:46:24 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
14:46:27 <LeeF> Scribe: Chimezie
(Scribe set to Chimezie Ogbuji)
14:46:36 <LeeF> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-11-24
14:57:44 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 11 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started ←
14:57:51 <Zakim> + +1.310.453.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.310.453.aaaa ←
14:58:06 <kasei> Zakim, aaaa is me
Gregory Williams: Zakim, aaaa is me ←
14:58:06 <Zakim> +kasei; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei; got it ←
14:58:07 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum
Zakim IRC Bot: +Lee_Feigenbaum ←
14:58:19 <LeeF> zakim, Lee_Feigenbaum is me
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, Lee_Feigenbaum is me ←
14:58:19 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF; got it ←
14:58:25 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:59:04 <kasei> hmm... ok.
Gregory Williams: hmm... ok. ←
14:59:22 <Zakim> + +49.238.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +49.238.aabb ←
14:59:24 <kasei> was appologizing ahead of time -- was travelling all day yesterday and haven't yet caught up on SD emails.
Gregory Williams: was appologizing ahead of time -- was travelling all day yesterday and haven't yet caught up on SD emails. ←
14:59:40 <Zakim> +??P13
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13 ←
14:59:43 <kasei> (and will pick up phone when I need to speak next :)
Gregory Williams: (and will pick up phone when I need to speak next :) ←
14:59:57 <LukeWM> Zakim, ??P13 is me
Luke Wilson-Mawer: Zakim, ??P13 is me ←
14:59:57 <Zakim> +LukeWM; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +LukeWM; got it ←
15:00:03 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPCaller is me ←
15:00:03 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
15:00:09 <Zakim> +??P14
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14 ←
15:00:13 <Zakim> + +1.312.863.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.312.863.aacc ←
15:00:14 <AlexPassant> Zakim: ??P14 is me
15:00:42 <LeeF> zakim, who's here?
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's here? ←
15:00:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, LeeF, AndyS, +49.238.aabb, LukeWM, ??P14, +1.312.863.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei, LeeF, AndyS, +49.238.aabb, LukeWM, ??P14, +1.312.863.aacc ←
15:00:43 <pgearon> Zakim: aacc is me
15:00:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see dcharbon2, bglimm, SteveH, sandro, OlivierCorby, kasei, AlexPassant, AxelPolleres, Zakim, RRSAgent, LeeF, LukeWM, AndyS, ivanh, karl, trackbot, iv_an_ru, pgearon,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see dcharbon2, bglimm, SteveH, sandro, OlivierCorby, kasei, AlexPassant, AxelPolleres, Zakim, RRSAgent, LeeF, LukeWM, AndyS, ivanh, karl, trackbot, iv_an_ru, pgearon, ←
15:00:46 <Zakim> ... KjetilK
Zakim IRC Bot: ... KjetilK ←
15:00:59 <Zakim> + +8686528aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +8686528aadd ←
15:01:15 <bglimm> Zakim, + 8686528aadd is me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, + 8686528aadd is me ←
15:01:15 <Zakim> I don't understand '+ 8686528aadd is me', bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand '+ 8686528aadd is me', bglimm ←
15:01:26 <pgearon> Zakim, +1.312.863.aacc is me
Paula Gearon: Zakim, +1.312.863.aacc is me ←
15:01:27 <bglimm> Zakim, 8686528aadd is me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, 8686528aadd is me ←
15:01:27 <Zakim> +pgearon; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon; got it ←
15:01:31 <Zakim> sorry, bglimm, I do not recognize a party named '8686528aadd'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, bglimm, I do not recognize a party named '8686528aadd' ←
15:01:35 <Zakim> + +1.919.543.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.919.543.aaee ←
15:02:22 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
15:02:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, LeeF, AndyS, +49.238.aabb, LukeWM, ??P14, pgearon, +8686528aadd, +1.919.543.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei, LeeF, AndyS, +49.238.aabb, LukeWM, ??P14, pgearon, +8686528aadd, +1.919.543.aaee ←
15:02:36 <AlexPassant> Zakim, ??P14 is me
Alexandre Passant: Zakim, ??P14 is me ←
15:02:36 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexPassant; got it ←
15:02:42 <LeeF> zakim, aadd is bglimm
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, aadd is bglimm ←
15:02:43 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm; got it ←
15:02:57 <dcharbon2> Zakim, +1.919.543.aaee is me
David Charboneau: Zakim, +1.919.543.aaee is me ←
15:02:57 <Zakim> +dcharbon2; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +dcharbon2; got it ←
15:03:15 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
15:03:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, LeeF, AndyS, +49.238.aabb, LukeWM, AlexPassant, pgearon, bglimm, dcharbon2
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei, LeeF, AndyS, +49.238.aabb, LukeWM, AlexPassant, pgearon, bglimm, dcharbon2 ←
15:03:19 <ivanh> zakim, dial ivanh-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivanh-voip ←
15:03:19 <Zakim> ok, ivanh; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivanh; the call is being made ←
15:03:21 <Zakim> +IvanH
Zakim IRC Bot: +IvanH ←
15:03:31 <Zakim> + +0207735aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: + +0207735aaff ←
15:03:43 <SteveH> Zakim, aaff is SteveH
Steve Harris: Zakim, aaff is SteveH ←
15:03:43 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it ←
15:03:52 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
15:04:07 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
15:04:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, LeeF, AndyS, +49.238.aabb, LukeWM, AlexPassant, pgearon, bglimm, dcharbon2, Ivanh, SteveH, Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei, LeeF, AndyS, +49.238.aabb, LukeWM, AlexPassant, pgearon, bglimm, dcharbon2, Ivanh, SteveH, Sandro ←
15:04:40 <chimezie> Zakim, passcode?
Zakim, passcode? ←
15:04:40 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), chimezie
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), chimezie ←
15:04:48 <LeeF> zakim, drop aabb
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, drop aabb ←
15:04:48 <Zakim> +49.238.aabb is being disconnected
Zakim IRC Bot: +49.238.aabb is being disconnected ←
15:04:49 <Zakim> - +49.238.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: - +49.238.aabb ←
15:05:13 <Zakim> +Chimezie_Ogbuji
Zakim IRC Bot: +Chimezie_Ogbuji ←
15:05:28 <LeeF> Scribenick: chimezie
15:05:31 <chimezie> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:05:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, LeeF, AndyS, LukeWM, AlexPassant, pgearon, bglimm, dcharbon2, IvanH, SteveH, Sandro, Chimezie_Ogbuji
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei, LeeF, AndyS, LukeWM, AlexPassant, pgearon, bglimm, dcharbon2, IvanH, SteveH, Sandro, Chimezie_Ogbuji ←
15:05:55 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:05:57 <Zakim> + +49.238.aagg
Zakim IRC Bot: + +49.238.aagg ←
15:05:59 <chimezie> LeeF:Might be a short agenda
Lee Feigenbaum: Might be a short agenda ←
15:06:10 <LeeF> zakim, IPCaller is Orri
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, IPCaller is Orri ←
15:06:10 <Zakim> +Orri; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Orri; got it ←
15:06:42 <LeeF> zakim, who's speaking?
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's speaking? ←
15:06:54 <Zakim> LeeF, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: LeeF (34%), bglimm (5%), +49.238.aagg (3%)
Zakim IRC Bot: LeeF, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: LeeF (34%), bglimm (5%), +49.238.aagg (3%) ←
15:07:00 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me ←
15:07:00 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted ←
15:07:17 <LeeF> zakim, aagg is OlivierCorby
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, aagg is OlivierCorby ←
15:07:17 <Zakim> +OlivierCorby; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +OlivierCorby; got it ←
15:07:27 <LeeF> topic: Admin
15:07:37 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-11-17
PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-11-17 ←
15:07:42 <bglimm> Do we have Orri now? Because Orri was initially the IP caller
Birte Glimm: Do we have Orri now? Because Orri was initially the IP caller ←
15:08:11 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-11-17
RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-11-17 ←
15:08:23 <LeeF> Next meeting: 2009-12-01 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST
Lee Feigenbaum: Next meeting: 2009-12-01 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST ←
15:08:30 <LeeF> Regrets: AxelPolleres
15:08:45 <sandro> I think I'm out next week
Sandro Hawke: I think I'm out next week ←
15:08:47 <SteveH> can only do one hour
Steve Harris: can only do one hour ←
15:08:54 <LeeF> Regrets next week: Sandro
Lee Feigenbaum: Regrets next week: Sandro ←
15:09:21 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
15:09:35 <chimezie> RDB2RDF asked us about data definitions, etc.
RDB2RDF asked us about data definitions, etc. ←
15:09:40 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
15:09:50 <chimezie> LeeF:RDB2RDF grouped asked a few questions Axel answered
Lee Feigenbaum: RDB2RDF grouped asked a few questions Axel answered ←
15:10:02 <chimezie> ... conversations regarding co-location of F2F. I'm skeptical
... conversations regarding co-location of F2F. I'm skeptical ←
15:10:17 <chimezie> ... go ahead with planning ours and considering opportunity if arises
... go ahead with planning ours and considering opportunity if arises ←
15:10:27 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/F2F3
Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/F2F3 ←
15:10:58 <chimezie> LeeF: please indicate status ASAP
Lee Feigenbaum: please indicate status ASAP ←
15:11:04 <chimezie> Orri: location?
Orri Erling: location? ←
15:11:23 <bglimm> Ireland
Birte Glimm: Ireland ←
15:11:28 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
15:11:31 <SteveH> europe
Steve Harris: europe ←
15:11:35 <chimezie> LeeF: Dual location Cambridge/MA or Galway/Oxford
Lee Feigenbaum: Dual location Cambridge/MA or Galway/Oxford ←
15:11:50 <LukeWM> British Isles
Luke Wilson-Mawer: British Isles ←
15:11:53 <SteveH> british isles?
Steve Harris: british isles? ←
15:11:56 <bglimm> There is, either Great Britain or United Kingdom, but I can't remember which one is what
Birte Glimm: There is, either Great Britain or United Kingdom, but I can't remember which one is what ←
15:12:11 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
15:12:25 <pgearon> Both Great Britain and United Kingdom exclude Ireland
Paula Gearon: Both Great Britain and United Kingdom exclude Ireland ←
15:12:26 <AndyS> Not GB (Eng_Soct+Wales) - "citizen of UK and GB and NI"
Andy Seaborne: Not GB (Eng_Soct+Wales) - "citizen of UK and GB and NI" ←
15:12:37 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments
Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments ←
15:12:41 <chimezie> LeeF: IvanH added wiki page for tracking comments
Lee Feigenbaum: IvanH added wiki page for tracking comments ←
15:12:58 <AndyS> Classic wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles
Andy Seaborne: Classic wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles ←
15:13:17 <chimezie> ... hopefully as comments get in, they get added here and potenential response is setup, edited, and sent to commenter
... hopefully as comments get in, they get added here and potenential response is setup, edited, and sent to commenter ←
15:13:30 <chimezie> ... tracks the thread. Please try to use it, chairs will put comments there but anyone can use
... tracks the thread. Please try to use it, chairs will put comments there but anyone can use ←
15:14:03 <kasei> i've been meaning to write a response to Leigh's serv. desc. email. Will try to do that this week.
Gregory Williams: i've been meaning to write a response to Leigh's serv. desc. email. Will try to do that this week. ←
15:14:04 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:14:04 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should no longer be muted ←
15:14:25 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me ←
15:14:25 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted ←
15:14:26 <kasei> the linked wikipedia page has a good venn diagram :)
Gregory Williams: the linked wikipedia page has a good venn diagram :) ←
15:14:27 <LeeF> topic: service description
15:14:39 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009OctDec/0483.html
Lee Feigenbaum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009OctDec/0483.html ←
15:16:23 <chimezie> Greg: Changes were WRT rough agreement from F2F conversation. Had a dataset description property that has been replaced with a default dataset and avaialble dataset properties
Gregory Williams: Changes were WRT rough agreement from F2F conversation. Had a dataset description property that has been replaced with a default dataset and avaialble dataset properties ←
15:16:28 <chimezie> ... some conversation about naming
... some conversation about naming ←
15:16:54 <chimezie> ... a default dataset and the available universe of graphs that can be used on FROM/FROM NAMED clauses
... a default dataset and the available universe of graphs that can be used on FROM/FROM NAMED clauses ←
15:17:09 <chimezie> Greg: one thing in update is URL variance of those terms
Gregory Williams: one thing in update is URL variance of those terms ←
15:17:22 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/service-description-1.1/xmlspec.xml
Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/service-description-1.1/xmlspec.xml ←
15:17:44 <chimezie> ... haven't committed to CVS, wanted to discuss
... haven't committed to CVS, wanted to discuss ←
15:17:47 <Zakim> + +1.937.775.aahh
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.937.775.aahh ←
15:17:51 <chimezie> LeeF: Easier if editors commit changes
Lee Feigenbaum: Easier if editors commit changes ←
15:17:58 <chimezie> .. even if under discussion
.. even if under discussion ←
15:18:03 <Prateek> Zakim, +1.937.775.aahh is Prateek
Prateek Jain: Zakim, +1.937.775.aahh is Prateek ←
15:18:03 <Zakim> +Prateek; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Prateek; got it ←
15:18:42 <chimezie> Greg: hoping ppl who needed this would chime in and drive discussion
Gregory Williams: hoping ppl who needed this would chime in and drive discussion ←
15:19:04 <LeeF> commit early, commit often :)
Lee Feigenbaum: commit early, commit often :) ←
15:19:12 <chimezie> ... this suggestion was for ppl that didn't want to list the entire dataset description.
... this suggestion was for ppl that didn't want to list the entire dataset description. ←
15:19:49 <chimezie> ... we can assume the URI for a dataset description is dereferencable
... we can assume the URI for a dataset description is dereferencable ←
15:20:16 <AndyS> Style Q: Does the linked to document notionally replace the original? (should it contain the orginal as well?)
Andy Seaborne: Style Q: Does the linked to document notionally replace the original? (should it contain the orginal as well?) ←
15:20:19 <chimezie> LeeF:who had those usecases?
Lee Feigenbaum: who had those usecases? ←
15:20:50 <chimezie> SteveH: we do have some usecases.. 10 millions of graphs
Steve Harris: we do have some usecases.. 10 millions of graphs ←
15:21:03 <chimezie> ... would like to be able to describe them.
... would like to be able to describe them. ←
15:21:15 <chimezie> ... not at the graph level, but want a description of the whole dataset
... not at the graph level, but want a description of the whole dataset ←
15:21:57 <chimezie> Greg: default graph gives you access to all the graphs in your deployment?
Gregory Williams: default graph gives you access to all the graphs in your deployment? ←
15:22:00 <chimezie> SteveH: yes
Steve Harris: yes ←
15:22:11 <AndyS> Will the description be large? At a SPARQL endpoint?
Andy Seaborne: Will the description be large? At a SPARQL endpoint? ←
15:22:15 <chimezie> Greg:service desc. points to default graph - no need to describe individual graphs
Gregory Williams: service desc. points to default graph - no need to describe individual graphs ←
15:22:52 <AndyS> q+ to mention a large description use case
Andy Seaborne: q+ to mention a large description use case ←
15:23:13 <chimezie> SteveH: if it is explicitely open world, that is fine
Steve Harris: if it is explicitely open world, that is fine ←
15:23:13 <LeeF> ack AndyS
Lee Feigenbaum: ack AndyS ←
15:23:13 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to mention a large description use case
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to mention a large description use case ←
15:23:33 <chimezie> AndyS: one case is where you have alot of statistics that goes with description to guide federated querying
Andy Seaborne: one case is where you have alot of statistics that goes with description to guide federated querying ←
15:24:33 <AndyS> Multiple datasets is a separate issue to me
Andy Seaborne: Multiple datasets is a separate issue to me ←
15:24:43 <chimezie> LeeF: comfortable having single property for these kinds of datasets desc. let them be open world - and if you don't want to include the triples in serv desc, then separate via linked data approach
Lee Feigenbaum: comfortable having single property for these kinds of datasets desc. let them be open world - and if you don't want to include the triples in serv desc, then separate via linked data approach ←
15:26:05 <kasei> (bad line here -- having a bit of trouble hearing everything that's being said)
Gregory Williams: (bad line here -- having a bit of trouble hearing everything that's being said) ←
15:26:17 <chimezie> LeeF: at F2F what was said was: if we go to a SPARQL service, there are 2 things i want
Lee Feigenbaum: at F2F what was said was: if we go to a SPARQL service, there are 2 things i want ←
15:26:35 <chimezie> ... what is the RDF dataset the query hits if the dataset isn't specified in request?
... what is the RDF dataset the query hits if the dataset isn't specified in request? ←
15:26:49 <chimezie> ... specification says: up to implementation so we might want that in serv. desc.
... specification says: up to implementation so we might want that in serv. desc. ←
15:27:04 <chimezie> ... other question: what are the universe of graphs names I can use in dataset description to do useful things?
... other question: what are the universe of graphs names I can use in dataset description to do useful things? ←
15:28:10 <chimezie> Seems very useful to me
Seems very useful to me ←
15:29:04 <chimezie> for service discovery, incremental querying, etc.
for service discovery, incremental querying, etc. ←
15:29:36 <ivanh> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:29:40 <chimezie> AndyS: I'm concerned with framing. I would like to see an implementation that uses REGEX expressions (POWDER?)
Andy Seaborne: I'm concerned with framing. I would like to see an implementation that uses REGEX expressions (POWDER?) ←
15:29:49 <AndyS> c.f voiD
Andy Seaborne: c.f voiD ←
15:30:11 <chimezie> LeeF: we are being agnostic about things like that
Lee Feigenbaum: we are being agnostic about things like that ←
15:30:28 <chimezie> Orri: problem is that we have sites with millions of distinct graphs
Orri Erling: problem is that we have sites with millions of distinct graphs ←
15:30:31 <LeeF> ack ivanh
Lee Feigenbaum: ack ivanh ←
15:30:36 <ivanh> http://www.w3.org/TR/powder-primer/
Ivan Herman: http://www.w3.org/TR/powder-primer/ ←
15:30:41 <AndyS> Framing I'm concerned with is "multiple datasets" rather than limiting FROM/FROM NAMED.
Andy Seaborne: Framing I'm concerned with is "multiple datasets" rather than limiting FROM/FROM NAMED. ←
15:30:44 <chimezie> IvanH: don't we have a usecase (POWDER)?
Ivan Herman: don't we have a usecase (POWDER)? ←
15:31:13 <chimezie> IvanH: we can define families of resources and RDF statements valid for them, seems relevant to this conversation - POWDER handles REGEX matching of groups of URIs, for instance
Ivan Herman: we can define families of resources and RDF statements valid for them, seems relevant to this conversation - POWDER handles REGEX matching of groups of URIs, for instance ←
15:31:52 <LeeF> AndyS, would you be happy with renaming availableDataset as something else? availableGraphs or something like that?
Lee Feigenbaum: AndyS, would you be happy with renaming availableDataset as something else? availableGraphs or something like that? ←
15:32:05 <chimezie> ... for example we have SW logos/buttons, etc. I can describe them and prescribe a license to them in one go
... for example we have SW logos/buttons, etc. I can describe them and prescribe a license to them in one go ←
15:32:07 <kasei> ivanh: is this something you think we should use directly, or continue to be agnostic about it so that someone could use powder or voiD or somethign else entirely?
Gregory Williams: ivanh, is this something you think we should use directly, or continue to be agnostic about it so that someone could use powder or voiD or somethign else entirely? ←
15:32:11 <kasei> s/:/,/
15:32:14 <chimezie> .. this is the direction we are going (in some cases)
.. this is the direction we are going (in some cases) ←
15:33:00 <AndyS> LeeF, yes (on the spot answer) The F2F descussion lead me down the wrong path and the email trail didn't contradict that interpretation.
Andy Seaborne: LeeF, yes (on the spot answer) The F2F descussion lead me down the wrong path and the email trail didn't contradict that interpretation. ←
15:33:11 <LeeF> AndyS, ok, thanks
Lee Feigenbaum: AndyS, ok, thanks ←
15:33:21 <LeeF> (i didn't understand your concern until now)
Lee Feigenbaum: (i didn't understand your concern until now) ←
15:33:31 <kasei> i'll try to take a look at the primer.
Gregory Williams: i'll try to take a look at the primer. ←
15:33:39 <chimezie> IvanH: uses XML format
Ivan Herman: uses XML format ←
15:34:46 <LeeF> q?
Lee Feigenbaum: q? ←
15:35:00 <chimezie> Greg: this should not be contentious
Gregory Williams: this should not be contentious ←
15:35:42 <chimezie> ... also, is the use of available datasets should imply those are the only URIs usable in a dataset clause or is it just a mechanism to say you have descriptions from a subset
... also, is the use of available datasets should imply those are the only URIs usable in a dataset clause or is it just a mechanism to say you have descriptions from a subset ←
15:35:51 <chimezie> LeeF: I don't think we can mandate one way or another
Lee Feigenbaum: I don't think we can mandate one way or another ←
15:36:42 <chimezie> ... I think we should take an open world approach
... I think we should take an open world approach ←
15:36:52 <chimezie> Greg: aren't there implementations that make CWA assumptions?
Gregory Williams: aren't there implementations that make CWA assumptions? ←
15:37:35 <chimezie> LeeF: seems useful in general (RDF) to say a set of triples follow a CWA
Lee Feigenbaum: seems useful in general (RDF) to say a set of triples follow a CWA ←
15:38:40 <chimezie> Sandro: I don't understand the semantics. there are graphs from a local cluster and names from other places
Sandro Hawke: I don't understand the semantics. there are graphs from a local cluster and names from other places ←
15:38:47 <chimezie> ... we can have a regex in either case
... we can have a regex in either case ←
15:38:59 <chimezie> ... allowed graphs / cached graphs
... allowed graphs / cached graphs ←
15:39:22 <chimezie> ... Quad store that fetches anything in an intranet to cache
... Quad store that fetches anything in an intranet to cache ←
15:40:37 <chimezie> Greg: allowed graphs is better than allowed datasets, what we are taking about are available graph descriptions
Gregory Williams: allowed graphs is better than allowed datasets, what we are taking about are available graph descriptions ←
15:41:01 <chimezie> Orri: can we say a quad store will fetch a resource if it doesn't cache it?
Orri Erling: can we say a quad store will fetch a resource if it doesn't cache it? ←
15:41:20 <chimezie> Greg: discussed IRI for indicating service will dereference URLs it hasn't loaded
Gregory Williams: discussed IRI for indicating service will dereference URLs it hasn't loaded ←
15:41:30 <chimezie> Sandro: use allowed graphs for this
Sandro Hawke: use allowed graphs for this ←
15:41:57 <AndyS> q+ to ask about status of describing the dataset structure.
Andy Seaborne: q+ to ask about status of describing the dataset structure. ←
15:42:10 <LeeF> ack AndyS
Lee Feigenbaum: ack AndyS ←
15:42:10 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask about status of describing the dataset structure.
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to ask about status of describing the dataset structure. ←
15:42:24 <AndyS> cf. VoiD-Issue-43: http://code.google.com/p/void-impl/issues/detail?id=43
Andy Seaborne: cf. VoiD-ISSUE-43: http://code.google.com/p/void-impl/issues/detail?id=43 ←
15:42:33 <chimezie> Andy: describing the datasets themselves...
Andy Seaborne: describing the datasets themselves... ←
15:42:57 <chimezie> ... there is a hope to transfer what the SPARQL WG is doing into their spec, and vice versa
... there is a hope to transfer what the SPARQL WG is doing into their spec, and vice versa ←
15:44:14 <chimezie> AndyS: take to email
Andy Seaborne: take to email ←
15:45:03 <chimezie> LeeF: time to reach agreement
Lee Feigenbaum: time to reach agreement ←
15:45:21 <LeeF> topic: abbreviated delete
15:46:44 <chimezie> LeeF: let us wait until next week to discuss graphs datastores, etc.
Lee Feigenbaum: let us wait until next week to discuss graphs datastores, etc. ←
15:47:03 <chimezie> ... including conversation about USE / INCLUDING, etc.. (multiple update statements)
... including conversation about USE / INCLUDING, etc.. (multiple update statements) ←
15:47:22 <Zakim> +??P1
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1 ←
15:47:29 <KjetilK> Zakim, ??P1 is me
Kjetil Kjernsmo: Zakim, ??P1 is me ←
15:47:29 <Zakim> +KjetilK; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +KjetilK; got it ←
15:47:54 <KjetilK> Zakim, mute me
Kjetil Kjernsmo: Zakim, mute me ←
15:47:54 <Zakim> KjetilK should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: KjetilK should now be muted ←
15:47:58 <chimezie> pgearon: Where do we put the graph we are removing (inside the template or in the DELETE)?
Paula Gearon: Where do we put the graph we are removing (inside the template or in the DELETE)? ←
15:48:06 <SteveH> I'm only in favour of this abbreviate with GRAPH in templates, otherwise it's very confusing
Steve Harris: I'm only in favour of this abbreviation with GRAPH in templates, otherwise it's very confusing ←
15:48:25 <SteveH> s/abbreviate/abbreviation/
15:48:42 <LeeF> why not DELETE FROM <g> WHERE { ?s ?p ?o } ?
Lee Feigenbaum: why not DELETE FROM <g> WHERE { ?s ?p ?o } ? ←
15:49:14 <SteveH> hos is it not confusing? what does it mean?
Steve Harris: hos is it not confusing? what does it mean? ←
15:49:23 <LeeF> DELETE { GRAPH <g> { ?s ?p ?o } }
Lee Feigenbaum: DELETE { GRAPH <g> { ?s ?p ?o } } ←
15:49:27 <LeeF> DELETE WHERE { GRAPH <g> { ?s ?p ?o } }
Lee Feigenbaum: DELETE WHERE { GRAPH <g> { ?s ?p ?o } } ←
15:49:31 <SteveH> ^ yup
Steve Harris: ^ yup ←
15:49:42 <chimezie> remove the matched triples from the graph identified with <g>
remove the matched triples from the graph identified with <g> ←
15:49:55 <LeeF> DELETE { GRAPH <g> { ?s ?p ?o } } WHERE { GRAPH <g> { ?s ?p ?o } }
Lee Feigenbaum: DELETE { GRAPH <g> { ?s ?p ?o } } WHERE { GRAPH <g> { ?s ?p ?o } } ←
15:50:08 <AndyS> DELETE FROM ?g WHERE { ?s ?p ?o } ? (var for FROM)
Andy Seaborne: DELETE FROM ?g WHERE { ?s ?p ?o } ? (var for FROM) ←
15:50:14 <chimezie> inclear the graph
clear the graph ←
15:50:20 <chimezie> s/inclear/clear
15:51:03 <SteveH> +1 to abbr
Steve Harris: +1 to abbr ←
15:51:04 <chimezie> LeeF: do we want an abbreviation
Lee Feigenbaum: do we want an abbreviation ←
15:51:06 <AndyS> +1 to abbrev mechanism
Andy Seaborne: +1 to abbrev mechanism ←
15:51:07 <KjetilK> +1 for abbreviation mechanism
Kjetil Kjernsmo: +1 for abbreviation mechanism ←
15:51:07 <pgearon> yes
Paula Gearon: yes ←
15:51:09 <pgearon> +!
Paula Gearon: +! ←
15:51:13 <pgearon> +1
Paula Gearon: +1 ←
15:51:14 <KjetilK> +100, actually :-)
Kjetil Kjernsmo: +100, actually :-) ←
15:51:14 <bglimm> 0
Birte Glimm: 0 ←
15:51:35 <pgearon> I'd like to see an abbreviation mechanism, but keep it simple
Paula Gearon: I'd like to see an abbreviation mechanism, but keep it simple ←
15:51:51 <chimezie> maybe we have that discussion first
maybe we have that discussion first ←
15:52:22 <KjetilK> q+
Kjetil Kjernsmo: q+ ←
15:53:08 <chimezie> pgearon: I feel we need to nail down issues first
Paula Gearon: I feel we need to nail down issues first ←
15:54:08 <LeeF> ack KjetilK
Lee Feigenbaum: ack KjetilK ←
15:54:10 <chimezie> LeeF: maybe we should not do it by commitee, but have editors lead
Lee Feigenbaum: maybe we should not do it by commitee, but have editors lead ←
15:55:00 <chimezie> KjetilK: lead template identical to WHERE pattern - this is basic usecase, make sure we don't duplicate syntax
Kjetil Kjernsmo: lead template identical to WHERE pattern - this is basic usecase, make sure we don't duplicate syntax ←
15:55:22 <pgearon> KjetilK, this basic removal of duplication is what I've put into the document
Paula Gearon: KjetilK, this basic removal of duplication is what I've put into the document ←
15:55:45 <SteveH> strawpoll on FROM and GRAPH?
Steve Harris: strawpoll on FROM and GRAPH? ←
15:55:46 <pgearon> So far I've avoided issues of FILTER, etc, that have been discussed
Paula Gearon: So far I've avoided issues of FILTER, etc, that have been discussed ←
15:55:55 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
15:56:20 <AndyS> Maybe having a (more) formal model of update would help.
Andy Seaborne: Maybe having a (more) formal model of update would help. ←
15:56:39 <pgearon> SteveH, I take it you're saying that you don't want to see: DELETE WHERE { GRAPH <g> { ?s ?p ?o } }
Paula Gearon: SteveH, I take it you're saying that you don't want to see: DELETE WHERE { GRAPH <g> { ?s ?p ?o } } ←
15:56:42 <SteveH> +1 to AndyS
Steve Harris: +1 to AndyS ←
15:56:46 <chimezie> SteveH: hoped it was clear enough for straw pol
Steve Harris: hoped it was clear enough for straw pol ←
15:56:51 <pgearon> oops, I mean, that's what you DO want to see
Paula Gearon: oops, I mean, that's what you DO want to see ←
15:57:01 <SteveH> pgearon, yes, DO want to see that :)
Steve Harris: pgearon, yes, DO want to see that :) ←
15:57:09 <pgearon> and not DELETE FROM <g> WHERE { ?s ?p ?o }
Paula Gearon: and not DELETE FROM <g> WHERE { ?s ?p ?o } ←
15:57:17 <SteveH> I want to see DELETE $a WHERE $s == DELETE WHERE $a
Steve Harris: I want to see DELETE $a WHERE $a == DELETE WHERE $a ←
15:57:28 <SteveH> and I think that's only possible with GRAPH syntax
Steve Harris: and I think that's only possible with GRAPH syntax ←
15:58:02 <KjetilK> Zakim, mute me
Kjetil Kjernsmo: Zakim, mute me ←
15:58:02 <Zakim> KjetilK should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: KjetilK should now be muted ←
15:58:04 <SteveH> s/$s/$a
15:58:21 <chimezie> LeeF: David Charboneau will take over for Simon as coeditor on protocol document
Lee Feigenbaum: David Charboneau will take over for Simon as coeditor on protocol document ←
15:58:30 <chimezie> DavidC: not setup yet fully
David Charboneau: not setup yet fully ←
15:59:42 <Zakim> -IvanH
Zakim IRC Bot: -IvanH ←
15:59:43 <Zakim> -Chimezie_Ogbuji
Zakim IRC Bot: -Chimezie_Ogbuji ←
15:59:44 <Zakim> -SteveH
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH ←
15:59:44 <Zakim> -Prateek
Zakim IRC Bot: -Prateek ←
15:59:46 <Zakim> -kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei ←
15:59:47 <Zakim> -bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: -bglimm ←
15:59:48 <Zakim> -pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgearon ←
15:59:49 <Zakim> -LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF ←
15:59:52 <Zakim> -KjetilK
Zakim IRC Bot: -KjetilK ←
15:59:52 <Zakim> -AlexPassant
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexPassant ←
15:59:56 <Zakim> -dcharbon2
Zakim IRC Bot: -dcharbon2 ←
15:59:59 <Zakim> -OlivierCorby
Zakim IRC Bot: -OlivierCorby ←
16:00:05 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
16:06:26 <ivanH> ivanh has joined #sparql
(No events recorded for 6 minutes)
Ivan Herman: ivanh has joined #sparql ←
16:06:37 <ivanH> ivanh has left #sparql
Ivan Herman: ivanh has left #sparql ←
16:06:59 <Zakim> -Orri
Zakim IRC Bot: -Orri ←
16:35:01 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, LukeWM, in SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM
(No events recorded for 28 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: disconnecting the lone participant, LukeWM, in SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM ←
16:35:04 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended ←
16:35:05 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.310.453.aaaa, kasei, LeeF, +49.238.aabb, LukeWM, AndyS, +8686528aadd, pgearon, AlexPassant, bglimm, dcharbon2, IvanH, +0207735aaff, SteveH, Sandro,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +1.310.453.aaaa, kasei, LeeF, +49.238.aabb, LukeWM, AndyS, +8686528aadd, pgearon, AlexPassant, bglimm, dcharbon2, IvanH, +0207735aaff, SteveH, Sandro, ←
16:35:07 <Zakim> ... Chimezie_Ogbuji, +49.238.aagg, Orri, OlivierCorby, Prateek, KjetilK
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Chimezie_Ogbuji, +49.238.aagg, Orri, OlivierCorby, Prateek, KjetilK ←
Formatted by CommonScribe