None.
13:38:19 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/11/03-rdfa-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/11/03-rdfa-irc ←
13:38:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
13:38:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 7332 ←
13:38:25 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 22 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 22 minutes ←
13:38:27 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
13:38:29 <trackbot> Date: 03 November 2011
13:44:34 <manu1> Guest: Niklas (lindstream) Lindström
13:59:03 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 20 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started ←
13:59:10 <Zakim> +??P4
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P4 ←
13:59:13 <manu1> zakim, I am ??P4
Manu Sporny: zakim, I am ??P4 ←
13:59:13 <Zakim> +manu1; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +manu1; got it ←
14:00:07 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
14:00:07 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
14:00:09 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
14:00:31 <Zakim> +??P7
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7 ←
14:00:38 <niklasl> zakim, I am ??P7
Niklas Lindström: zakim, I am ??P7 ←
14:00:38 <Zakim> +niklasl; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +niklasl; got it ←
14:00:45 <Zakim> +Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←
14:01:10 <Zakim> +scor
Zakim IRC Bot: +scor ←
14:01:58 <Steven> zakim, who is on the call?
Steven Pemberton: zakim, who is on the call? ←
14:01:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see manu1, Ivan, niklasl, Steven, scor
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see manu1, Ivan, niklasl, Steven, scor ←
14:03:18 <Zakim> +??P18
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P18 ←
14:03:27 <ShaneM> zakim, ??P18 is ShaneM
Shane McCarron: zakim, ??P18 is ShaneM ←
14:03:27 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM; got it ←
14:03:48 <Zakim> +??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21 ←
14:04:01 <gkellogg> zakim, ??P21 is gkellogg
Gregg Kellogg: zakim, ??P21 is gkellogg ←
14:04:01 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it ←
14:04:43 <manu1> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Nov/0008.html
14:05:13 <ShaneM> Scribe: ShaneM
(Scribe set to Shane McCarron)
14:06:10 <ShaneM> Topic: Supporting schema.org via RDFa Lite Changes
14:07:23 <ShaneM> Discussion at TPAC of @property and @src. Didn't seem to be any controversy with that.
Discussion at TPAC of @property and @src. Didn't seem to be any controversy with that. ←
14:07:43 <manu1> q+ to ask about "@rel/@property being handled in a 'compatible' way?"
Manu Sporny: q+ to ask about "@rel/@property being handled in a 'compatible' way?" ←
14:08:02 <ShaneM> Discussions about chaining. Ben felt chaining is important and that some people just don't understand the requirement. If @property is similar to @rel that's okay.
Discussions about chaining. Ben felt chaining is important and that some people just don't understand the requirement. If @property is similar to @rel that's okay. ←
14:08:38 <manu1> ack manu1
Manu Sporny: ack manu1 ←
14:08:38 <Zakim> manu1, you wanted to ask about "@rel/@property being handled in a 'compatible' way?"
Zakim IRC Bot: manu1, you wanted to ask about "@rel/@property being handled in a 'compatible' way?" ←
14:08:02 <ShaneM> manu: I think it's clear that we want to support the changes that schema.org is asking us to make... the only question is the how, which has a solid proposal and the question of how much legacy RDFa 1.0 Markup is affected. I think that if we can address all of the schema.org issues and break less than 1% of existing RDFa markup out there... we should make the changes.
Manu Sporny: I think it's clear that we want to support the changes that schema.org is asking us to make... the only question is the how, which has a solid proposal and the question of how much legacy RDFa 1.0 Markup is affected. I think that if we can address all of the schema.org issues and break less than 1% of existing RDFa markup out there... we should make the changes. ←
14:08:50 <ShaneM> Topic: Ivan's @typeof proposal
14:08:50 <ShaneM> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Nov/0001.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Nov/0001.html ←
14:08:50 <ShaneM> Brief discussion about Ivan's proposal. There was some discussion of using @about as an object, but some didn't like that.
Brief discussion about Ivan's proposal. There was some discussion of using @about as an object, but some didn't like that. ←
14:09:26 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
14:10:24 <scor> Gregg: many ways to go about this - one possibility is to have @typeof apply to @resource
Gregg Kellogg: many ways to go about this - one possibility is to have @typeof apply to @resource [ Scribe Assist by Stéphane Corlosquet ] ←
14:10:35 <gkellogg> <div property="foo" typeof="bar" resource="baz">
Gregg Kellogg: <div property="foo" typeof="bar" resource="baz"> ←
14:10:48 <gkellogg> <> :foo :baz
Gregg Kellogg: <> :foo :baz ←
14:10:57 <gkellogg> :baz a :bar
Gregg Kellogg: :baz a :bar ←
14:11:45 <Zakim> + +1.404.978.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.404.978.aaaa ←
14:12:16 <tomayac> zakim, +1.404.978.aaaa is me
Thomas Steiner: zakim, +1.404.978.aaaa is me ←
14:12:16 <Zakim> +tomayac; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tomayac; got it ←
14:12:19 <manu1> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
14:12:43 <manu1> q+ to say he's concerned about big changes like this.
Manu Sporny: q+ to say he's concerned about big changes like this. ←
14:12:56 <ShaneM> ivan: the whole thing is only if there is a property or a rel - without those the behavior does not change. That use is relatively widespread.
Ivan Herman: the whole thing is only if there is a property or a rel - without those the behavior does not change. That use is relatively widespread. ←
14:14:09 <manu1> ack manu1
Manu Sporny: ack manu1 ←
14:14:09 <Zakim> manu1, you wanted to say he's concerned about big changes like this.
Zakim IRC Bot: manu1, you wanted to say he's concerned about big changes like this. ←
14:14:40 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
14:14:45 <ShaneM> manu: This is a very large change when this started out as something small. We dont have a clear grasp of how these changes might effect existing markup.
Manu Sporny: This is a very large change when this started out as something small. We dont have a clear grasp of how these changes might effect existing markup. ←
14:15:05 <ShaneM> ... it is fine to talk about them, but to make any changes, we need to understand the type of markup that is already out there.
... it is fine to talk about them, but to make any changes, we need to understand the type of markup that is already out there. ←
14:15:17 <ShaneM> ... there are some services that we could use to do a big crawl to see what is in use.
... there are some services that we could use to do a big crawl to see what is in use. ←
14:15:23 <Steven> +1
Steven Pemberton: +1 ←
14:15:33 <manu1> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
14:15:34 <gkellogg> q+
Gregg Kellogg: q+ ←
14:15:36 <ShaneM> ... I am afraid that by creating 'consistency' with this one aspect of RDFa's use of @typeof will break more things than it fixes.
... I am afraid that by creating 'consistency' with this one aspect of RDFa's use of @typeof will break more things than it fixes. ←
14:15:38 <ShaneM> +1
+1 ←
14:16:45 <ShaneM> ivan: I agree it is a concern. I can't judge how big it is. if we include the changes we are discussing in another draft, we will obviously need to ask for feedback from the community.
Ivan Herman: I agree it is a concern. I can't judge how big it is. if we include the changes we are discussing in another draft, we will obviously need to ask for feedback from the community. ←
14:15:38 <ShaneM> Topic: "Magnetic @property" and "Chaining @property" changes
14:17:16 <ShaneM> Ivan: while playing with this I realized that if we have @property work this way it can make RDFa code simpler / easier (@property picks up @href).
Ivan Herman: while playing with this I realized that if we have @property work this way it can make RDFa code simpler / easier (@property picks up @href). ←
14:17:34 <ShaneM> ... this is important. The reason we are looking at this is because we have feedback that this is difficult to manage.
... this is important. The reason we are looking at this is because we have feedback that this is difficult to manage. ←
14:17:49 <manu1> q+ to take a position - Gregg's changes, but only if schema.org adopts RDFa and if it breaks "less than 1% of the markup out there"
Manu Sporny: q+ to take a position - Gregg's changes, but only if schema.org adopts RDFa and if it breaks "less than 1% of the markup out there" ←
14:18:18 <ShaneM> ... what gregg called chaining, which I would rather call the @typeof fix. If we look at the examples on schema.org, it is true that what you have to do in RDFa with @rel etc. is uglier and more complicated because of how @typeof works.
... what gregg called chaining, which I would rather call the @typeof fix. If we look at the examples on schema.org, it is true that what you have to do in RDFa with @rel etc. is uglier and more complicated because of how @typeof works. ←
14:18:44 <manu1> ack gkellogg
Manu Sporny: ack gkellogg ←
14:18:59 <niklasl> q+
Niklas Lindström: q+ ←
14:19:41 <ShaneM> Gregg: We need to be able to distinguish between 1.0 and 1.1 markup. 1.1 isn't a rec yet, so we aren't breaking things if we make changes to new behavior.
Gregg Kellogg: We need to be able to distinguish between 1.0 and 1.1 markup. 1.1 isn't a rec yet, so we aren't breaking things if we make changes to new behavior. ←
14:19:33 <manu1> Manu: I don't think anyone is suggesting that we're "breaking" RDFa 1.1 markup.
Manu Sporny: I don't think anyone is suggesting that we're "breaking" RDFa 1.1 markup. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:19:46 <manu1> Manu: The concern here is RDFa 1.0 backwards compatibility... we want to make sure that we don't break more than 1% of the markup that is already out there.
Manu Sporny: The concern here is RDFa 1.0 backwards compatibility... we want to make sure that we don't break more than 1% of the markup that is already out there. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:19:54 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
14:20:00 <manu1> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
14:20:09 <ShaneM> ... there is a concern about img and @src, but we have already broken that case.
... there is a concern about img and @src, but we have already broken that case. ←
14:20:23 <ShaneM> manu: I disagree. We are not concerned about breaking 1.1 markup... it's not a REC yet.
Manu Sporny: I disagree. We are not concerned about breaking 1.1 markup... it's not a REC yet. ←
14:21:08 <gkellogg> q+
Gregg Kellogg: q+ ←
14:21:15 <ShaneM> ... my concern is breaking 1.0 markup. If we can change the rules so 1.0 markup generates relatively the same triples, that's okay. Making changes that would do something unexpected to what is out there is a bad idea. Not knowing if it will destroy existing RDFa markup is even worse.
... my concern is breaking 1.0 markup. If we can change the rules so 1.0 markup generates relatively the same triples, that's okay. Making changes that would do something unexpected to what is out there is a bad idea. Not knowing if it will destroy existing RDFa markup is even worse. ←
14:21:34 <ShaneM> ... saying that all we need to do is detect 1.0 markup is very difficult. There is no announcement in much of the RDFa markup.
... saying that all we need to do is detect 1.0 markup is very difficult. There is no announcement in much of the RDFa markup. ←
14:22:11 <scor> manu1: then when crawling the web for RDFa patterns, it should also include whether the version is specified or not
Manu Sporny: then when crawling the web for RDFa patterns, it should also include whether the version is specified or not [ Scribe Assist by Stéphane Corlosquet ] ←
14:22:29 <ShaneM> ... I am perfectly fine making changes if we can prove that new markup idioms are not being used already in the wild.
... I am perfectly fine making changes if we can prove that new markup idioms are not being used already in the wild. ←
14:23:05 <manu1> ack manu1
Manu Sporny: ack manu1 ←
14:23:05 <Zakim> manu1, you wanted to take a position - Gregg's changes, but only if schema.org adopts RDFa and if it breaks "less than 1% of the markup out there"
Zakim IRC Bot: manu1, you wanted to take a position - Gregg's changes, but only if schema.org adopts RDFa and if it breaks "less than 1% of the markup out there" ←
14:23:07 <ShaneM> ... if no one is @typeof and @property on the same element, for example, then we can make that change. If it is in use out there, that would be bad.
... if no one is @typeof and @property on the same element, for example, then we can make that change. If it is in use out there, that would be bad. ←
14:23:08 <manu1> ack niklasl
Manu Sporny: ack niklasl ←
14:24:05 <niklasl> <div property="knows" typeof="Person">
Niklas Lindström: <div property="knows" typeof="Person"> ←
14:24:06 <ShaneM> niklasl: I agree with what you say. I hope we can make @typeof work. It seems that the @typeof changes could be done with minor edge case issues.
Niklas Lindström: I agree with what you say. I hope we can make @typeof work. It seems that the @typeof changes could be done with minor edge case issues. ←
14:25:00 <manu1> q?
Manu Sporny: q? ←
14:25:15 <ShaneM> ivan: This example is a good one. The way @typeof is defined in RDFa 1.0 is really broken, in my opinion.
Ivan Herman: This example is a good one. The way @typeof is defined in RDFa 1.0 is really broken, in my opinion. ←
14:25:34 <niklasl> (note that the above is same as <div typeof="Person" property="knows"> (in case attar order confuses our "intuition"…))
Niklas Lindström: (note that the above is same as <div typeof="Person" property="knows"> (in case attar order confuses our "intuition"…)) ←
14:25:58 <manu1> I didn't have the same issue with @typeof, btw... (albeit anecdotal evidence with one data point...)
Manu Sporny: I didn't have the same issue with @typeof, btw... (albeit anecdotal evidence with one data point...) ←
14:26:52 <manu1> ack gkellogg
Manu Sporny: ack gkellogg ←
14:27:12 <ShaneM> q+ to disagree about xmlns
q+ to disagree about xmlns ←
14:30:00 <manu1> ShaneM: Two people have now indicated that if you use xmlns, that we're talking about RDFa 1.0 - that's just wrong. RDFa 1.0 uses xmlns: as a mechanism for defining prefix mappings... however, we do have xmlns in other XHTML documents.
Shane McCarron: Two people have now indicated that if you use xmlns, that we're talking about RDFa 1.0 - that's just wrong. RDFa 1.0 uses xmlns: as a mechanism for defining prefix mappings... however, we do have xmlns in other XHTML documents. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:30:11 <Steven> I agree strongly with Shane on this
Steven Pemberton: I agree strongly with Shane on this ←
14:30:14 <manu1> ShaneM: I don't think we can use it as a reliable switch.
Shane McCarron: I don't think we can use it as a reliable switch. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:30:15 <Steven> XForms too
Steven Pemberton: XForms too ←
14:31:11 <ShaneM> Topic: Web Crawl to Support RDFa Lite Changes
14:31:11 <ShaneM> manu: there seems to be agreement about the basic "magnetic @property" change.
Manu Sporny: there seems to be agreement about the basic "magnetic @property" change. ←
14:31:54 <ShaneM> ... the other change - where @property magically chains if used with @typeof is less accepted, but we think it's workable. We need to start collecting data on these changes.
... the other change - where @property magically chains if used with @typeof is less accepted, but we think it's workable. We need to start collecting data on these changes. ←
14:31:55 <manu1> http://blekko.com/webgrep is one possibility
Manu Sporny: http://blekko.com/webgrep is one possibility ←
14:32:07 <scor> q+ to talk about webgrep
Stéphane Corlosquet: q+ to talk about webgrep ←
14:32:09 <Steven> q+
Steven Pemberton: q+ ←
14:32:14 <ShaneM> ack ShaneM
ack ShaneM ←
14:32:14 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to disagree about xmlns
Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to disagree about xmlns ←
14:32:22 <scor> http://www.commoncrawl.org/ is another - better, but we need to write the query in Hadoop, etc.
Stéphane Corlosquet: http://www.commoncrawl.org/ is another - better, but we need to write the query in Hadoop, etc. ←
14:32:28 <scor> q+ to talk about Common Crawl
Stéphane Corlosquet: q+ to talk about Common Crawl ←
14:32:56 <ShaneM> manu: there are some tools out there. we could start collecting data to backup the changes we are talking about making.
Manu Sporny: there are some tools out there. we could start collecting data to backup the changes we are talking about making. ←
14:32:57 <Steven> The problem with that approach is that it misses intranets. HTML5 used that technique to say that we don't need @rev
Steven Pemberton: The problem with that approach is that it misses intranets. HTML5 used that technique to say that we don't need @rev ←
14:33:02 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
14:33:16 <ShaneM> ... we could also wait for google or yahoo to help us answer the question.
... we could also wait for google or yahoo to help us answer the question. ←
14:33:34 <manu1> ack scor
Manu Sporny: ack scor ←
14:33:34 <Zakim> scor, you wanted to talk about webgrep and to talk about Common Crawl
Zakim IRC Bot: scor, you wanted to talk about webgrep and to talk about Common Crawl ←
14:34:08 <scor> webgrep
Stéphane Corlosquet: webgrep ←
14:34:18 <scor> http://blekko.com/webgrep?page=view&id=8638947e26c2cf16e32d3487fc187ac5 tells us that we cannot use regexes there.
Stéphane Corlosquet: http://blekko.com/webgrep?page=view&id=8638947e26c2cf16e32d3487fc187ac5 tells us that we cannot use regexes there. ←
14:34:18 <ShaneM> scor: webgrep doesn't allow regular expressions as of now.
Stéphane Corlosquet: webgrep doesn't allow regular expressions as of now. ←
14:34:41 <ShaneM> ... it is possible to search for a tag, but you can't search for property and rel or whatever.
... it is possible to search for a tag, but you can't search for property and rel or whatever. ←
14:34:41 <tomayac> probably it was discussed before, but could Sindice be helpful for this task?
Thomas Steiner: probably it was discussed before, but could Sindice be helpful for this task? ←
14:35:58 <ShaneM> scor: commoncrawl looks promising . it isn't a big crawl, but it is free. you need to have your own amazon instances to do the processing of the data.
Stéphane Corlosquet: commoncrawl looks promising . it isn't a big crawl, but it is free. you need to have your own amazon instances to do the processing of the data. ←
14:38:08 <manu1> q+ to talk about what tests to do.
Manu Sporny: q+ to talk about what tests to do. ←
14:38:09 <ShaneM> ... we should on the wiki work out a regular expression we would use for inspecting the web. Then when we do have access we can used the agreed upon regular expressions.
... we should on the wiki work out a regular expression we would use for inspecting the web. Then when we do have access we can used the agreed upon regular expressions. ←
14:38:28 <niklasl> q+ on if we need regexps for this crawling though? aren't xpath or css selectors enough (or even better)?
Niklas Lindström: q+ on if we need regexps for this crawling though? aren't xpath or css selectors enough (or even better)? ←
14:39:13 <manu1> ack Steven
Manu Sporny: ack Steven ←
14:39:16 <manu1> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
14:39:28 <ShaneM> Steven: I dont like using webcrawls to backup arguments because they don't crawl intranets. Also because it disenfranchises things that are not yet adopted.
Steven Pemberton: I dont like using webcrawls to backup arguments because they don't crawl intranets. Also because it disenfranchises things that are not yet adopted. ←
14:39:54 <scor> q+ to talk about intranets
Stéphane Corlosquet: q+ to talk about intranets ←
14:39:58 <ShaneM> ivan: we are not proposing using it to drop a feature. we are using it to see if a change in behavior would break something. that is a little bit different than the HTML5 / @rev case.
Ivan Herman: we are not proposing using it to drop a feature. we are using it to see if a change in behavior would break something. that is a little bit different than the HTML5 / @rev case. ←
14:40:17 <ShaneM> ... the current situation is a little confusing. Before we make a crawl we need a clear idea of what we're trying to find out.
... the current situation is a little confusing. Before we make a crawl we need a clear idea of what we're trying to find out. ←
14:41:00 <ShaneM> ... the existing wiki is sort of a hash of ideas. Could we have a single page where all the @property related changes are spelled out in one place.
... the existing wiki is sort of a hash of ideas. Could we have a single page where all the @property related changes are spelled out in one place. ←
14:41:24 <ShaneM> ... we could use that page for the crawl, but also to publicize our proposals to schema.org and the community at large.
... we could use that page for the crawl, but also to publicize our proposals to schema.org and the community at large. ←
14:41:40 <ShaneM> ... we got a bunch of relatively positive reactions to RDFa Lite was published. That's good.
... we got a bunch of relatively positive reactions to RDFa Lite was published. That's good. ←
14:42:08 <manu1> q?
Manu Sporny: q? ←
14:42:10 <manu1> ack manu1
Manu Sporny: ack manu1 ←
14:42:10 <Zakim> manu1, you wanted to talk about what tests to do.
Zakim IRC Bot: manu1, you wanted to talk about what tests to do. ←
14:42:11 <ShaneM> ... its possible that we will get similar feedback if we write this down concisely and promote it.
... its possible that we will get similar feedback if we write this down concisely and promote it. ←
14:42:34 <ShaneM> ... I have tried to implement some of the proposed changes, but it gets confusing after a while.
... I have tried to implement some of the proposed changes, but it gets confusing after a while. ←
14:42:58 <gkellogg> q+
Gregg Kellogg: q+ ←
14:42:59 <ShaneM> manu: I agree. We need to capture the changes to the processing rules. While we are doing the grep for the web we should look for everything we care about.
Manu Sporny: I agree. We need to capture the changes to the processing rules. While we are doing the grep for the web we should look for everything we care about. ←
14:43:22 <ShaneM> ... there is no such thing as too much data.
... there is no such thing as too much data. ←
14:44:13 <ShaneM> ivan: my problem is that there are combinations in use today on the web because 1.0 requires them. a search wouldn't reveal if people like using the awkward usage.
Ivan Herman: my problem is that there are combinations in use today on the web because 1.0 requires them. a search wouldn't reveal if people like using the awkward usage. ←
14:44:28 <ShaneM> manu: I agree, but the purpose isn't to determine with people like the 1.0 usage.
Manu Sporny: I agree, but the purpose isn't to determine with people like the 1.0 usage. ←
14:44:44 <ShaneM> ivan: I am not sure how far we have to go in protecting backward compatibility.
Ivan Herman: I am not sure how far we have to go in protecting backward compatibility. ←
14:44:56 <manu1> ack niklasl
Manu Sporny: ack niklasl ←
14:44:56 <Zakim> niklasl, you wanted to comment on if we need regexps for this crawling though? aren't xpath or css selectors enough (or even better)?
Zakim IRC Bot: niklasl, you wanted to comment on if we need regexps for this crawling though? aren't xpath or css selectors enough (or even better)? ←
14:44:59 <ShaneM> manu: I am not sure either. But without data we don't even know what we are talking about.
Manu Sporny: I am not sure either. But without data we don't even know what we are talking about. ←
14:45:22 <manu1> ack scor
Manu Sporny: ack scor ←
14:45:22 <Zakim> scor, you wanted to talk about intranets
Zakim IRC Bot: scor, you wanted to talk about intranets ←
14:45:29 <ShaneM> niklasl: regexp might be hard to use. if we found a service to suport xpath or selectors that might be better.
Niklas Lindström: regexp might be hard to use. if we found a service to suport xpath or selectors that might be better. ←
14:45:54 <ShaneM> scor: support for xpath might be hard to find. regular expressions are widely supported.
Stéphane Corlosquet: support for xpath might be hard to find. regular expressions are widely supported. ←
14:46:36 <ShaneM> ... I agree with Ivan. We should lay down all the ideas. Next to them, record the regexps that would help identify if the pattern is already in use.
... I agree with Ivan. We should lay down all the ideas. Next to them, record the regexps that would help identify if the pattern is already in use. ←
14:46:50 <manu1> +1 to what scor just said!
Manu Sporny: +1 to what scor just said! ←
14:46:57 <ShaneM> ... w.r.t. using a crawl. Crawl data can help us make decisions. We shouldn't use it exclusively.
... w.r.t. using a crawl. Crawl data can help us make decisions. We shouldn't use it exclusively. ←
14:47:14 <ShaneM> gkellogg: We can use the wiki. The data is separated now. We can split it into its own page.
Gregg Kellogg: We can use the wiki. The data is separated now. We can split it into its own page. ←
14:48:01 <ShaneM> ... w.r.t. regexp, we can probably do it with 2 regular expressions. Once we have the raw data, we could use xpath to do a finer grained analysis.
... w.r.t. regexp, we can probably do it with 2 regular expressions. Once we have the raw data, we could use xpath to do a finer grained analysis. ←
14:48:19 <ShaneM> ... I can write up the regular expressions. I am not sure I know what is in Ivan's mind as to the @typeof changes.
... I can write up the regular expressions. I am not sure I know what is in Ivan's mind as to the @typeof changes. ←
14:48:36 <ShaneM> ... Ivan, can you do a wiki page on those?
... Ivan, can you do a wiki page on those? ←
14:49:14 <ShaneM> ivan: I think it would be better to have a single page. If Gregg starts the page, then I can finish it (the timezones work out).
Ivan Herman: I think it would be better to have a single page. If Gregg starts the page, then I can finish it (the timezones work out). ←
14:49:28 <manu1> q+ to talk about sequence
Manu Sporny: q+ to talk about sequence ←
14:49:33 <manu1> ack gkellogg
Manu Sporny: ack gkellogg ←
14:50:18 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
14:50:28 <ivan> ack manu1
Ivan Herman: ack manu1 ←
14:50:28 <Zakim> manu1, you wanted to talk about sequence
Zakim IRC Bot: manu1, you wanted to talk about sequence ←
14:51:59 <manu1> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
14:54:56 <niklasl> q+
Niklas Lindström: q+ ←
14:57:05 <manu1> ack niklasl
Manu Sporny: ack niklasl ←
14:57:36 <manu1> q+ to get a set of actions down.
Manu Sporny: q+ to get a set of actions down. ←
14:58:20 <ShaneM> Seems to be a sense that we agree to the @property changes but need to work out the technical details and ensure that we are not breaking backward compatibility too much.
Seems to be a sense that we agree to the @property changes but need to work out the technical details and ensure that we are not breaking backward compatibility too much. ←
14:58:43 <manu1> ack manu1
Manu Sporny: ack manu1 ←
14:58:43 <Zakim> manu1, you wanted to get a set of actions down.
Zakim IRC Bot: manu1, you wanted to get a set of actions down. ←
14:59:33 <manu1> ACTION: Gregg update the @property proposal - replace chaining discussion w/ new pattern - @typeof change.
ACTION: Gregg update the @property proposal - replace chaining discussion w/ new pattern - @typeof change. ←
14:59:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-101 - Update the @property proposal - replace chaining discussion w/ new pattern - @typeof change. [on Gregg Kellogg - due 2011-11-10].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-101 - Update the @property proposal - replace chaining discussion w/ new pattern - @typeof change. [on Gregg Kellogg - due 2011-11-10]. ←
14:59:50 <manu1> ACTION: Ivan follow up on @typeof change that Gregg makes on the wiki.
ACTION: Ivan follow up on @typeof change that Gregg makes on the wiki. ←
14:59:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-102 - Follow up on @typeof change that Gregg makes on the wiki. [on Ivan Herman - due 2011-11-10].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-102 - Follow up on @typeof change that Gregg makes on the wiki. [on Ivan Herman - due 2011-11-10]. ←
15:00:50 <manu1> ACTION: Gregg and Manu and Niklas to write regex patterns for RDFa "in the wild" markup.
ACTION: Gregg and Manu and Niklas to write regex patterns for RDFa "in the wild" markup. ←
15:00:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-103 - And Manu and Niklas to write regex patterns for RDFa "in the wild" markup. [on Gregg Kellogg - due 2011-11-10].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-103 - And Manu and Niklas to write regex patterns for RDFa "in the wild" markup. [on Gregg Kellogg - due 2011-11-10]. ←
15:02:55 <scor> gkellogg: the @property changes include both @property/@rel and @typeof right?
Gregg Kellogg: the @property changes include both @property/@rel and @typeof right? [ Scribe Assist by Stéphane Corlosquet ] ←
15:03:31 <gkellogg> scor, they just use @property, but we'll need to discuss the difference between @property and @rel
Gregg Kellogg: scor, they just use @property, but we'll need to discuss the difference between @property and @rel ←
15:06:01 <manu1> q+ to end the call.
Manu Sporny: q+ to end the call. ←
15:09:25 <ShaneM> Ivan will commit some changes to the RDFa core document that spell out how processing rules are evolving due to "Magnetic @property" direction.
Ivan will commit some changes to the RDFa core document that spell out how processing rules are evolving due to "Magnetic @property" direction. ←
15:09:26 <Zakim> -Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←
15:09:27 <Zakim> -manu1
Zakim IRC Bot: -manu1 ←
15:09:27 <Zakim> -tomayac
Zakim IRC Bot: -tomayac ←
15:09:29 <Zakim> -gkellogg
Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg ←
15:09:29 <Zakim> -scor
Zakim IRC Bot: -scor ←
15:09:30 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
15:09:31 <Zakim> -niklasl
Zakim IRC Bot: -niklasl ←
15:09:37 <Zakim> -ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←
15:09:38 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended ←
15:09:39 <Zakim> Attendees were manu1, Ivan, niklasl, Steven, scor, ShaneM, gkellogg, tomayac
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were manu1, Ivan, niklasl, Steven, scor, ShaneM, gkellogg, tomayac ←
Formatted by CommonScribe