edit

RDF Web Applications Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 14 April 2011

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Apr/0055.html
Present
Ted Thibodeau, Manu Sporny, Steven Pemberton, Benjamin Adrian, Knud Möller, Nathan Rixham
Regrets
Thomas Steiner, Shane McCarron, Ivan Herman
Chair
Manu Sporny
Scribe
Nathan Rixham, Manu Sporny
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. Publish the RDFa Primer as a First Public Working Draft under the short name 'rdfa-primer'. The publication date should be April 19th 2011. link
  2. Publish the RDFa API as a heartbeat Working Draft with the 3 changes requested by the group. The publication date should be April 19th 2011. link
Topics
13:45:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/14-rdfa-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/14-rdfa-irc

13:45:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

13:45:39 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 7332

13:45:39 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes

13:45:40 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
13:45:40 <trackbot> Date: 14 April 2011
13:45:43 <manu> Chair: Manu
13:45:47 <manu> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Apr/0055.html
13:49:42 <manu> Present: Ted, Manu, Steven, Benjamin, Knud, Nathan
13:49:42 <manu> Regrets: Thomas, ShaneM, Ivan
13:54:05 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started

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Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started

13:54:12 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

13:54:48 <webr3> zakim, i am IPcaller

Nathan Rixham: zakim, i am IPcaller

13:54:48 <Zakim> ok, webr3, I now associate you with [IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, webr3, I now associate you with [IPcaller]

13:55:24 <Zakim> +??P20

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P20

13:55:27 <manu> zakim, I am ??P20

Manu Sporny: zakim, I am ??P20

13:55:27 <Zakim> +manu; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +manu; got it

14:01:04 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-work

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-work

14:01:04 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made

14:01:05 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven

14:01:08 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

14:01:29 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

14:01:29 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it

14:01:31 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

14:01:31 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

14:02:17 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

14:02:18 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted

14:03:13 <Zakim> + +3539149aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +3539149aaaa

14:03:53 <Steven> zakim, mute aaaa

Steven Pemberton: zakim, mute aaaa

14:03:53 <Zakim> +3539149aaaa should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: +3539149aaaa should now be muted

14:04:11 <Knud> zakim, I am aaaa

Knud Möller: zakim, I am aaaa

14:04:11 <Zakim> +Knud; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Knud; got it

14:04:20 <Zakim> + +49.631.205.75.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +49.631.205.75.aabb

14:04:34 <Benjamin> zakim, I am aabb

Benjamin Adrian: zakim, I am aabb

14:04:35 <Zakim> +Benjamin; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Benjamin; got it

14:06:00 <Zakim> -manu

Zakim IRC Bot: -manu

14:06:25 <Zakim> +??P20

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P20

14:06:28 <manu> zakim, I am ??P20

Manu Sporny: zakim, I am ??P20

14:06:28 <Zakim> +manu; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +manu; got it

14:07:16 <webr3> ScribeNick: webr3

(Scribe set to Nathan Rixham)

14:07:18 <manu> Topic: Publish the RDFa Primer as a FPWD

1. Publish the RDFa Primer as a FPWD

14:07:25 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2011/WD-rdfa-primer-20110419/

Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2011/WD-rdfa-primer-20110419/

14:07:57 <webr3> manu: It (RDFa Primer) has been reviewed by Manu, Benjamin, TomS

Manu Sporny: It (RDFa Primer) has been reviewed by Manu, Benjamin, TomS

14:08:36 <webr3> ... we've done a final pass for grammar issues and typo's, and think it's ready to go

... we've done a final pass for grammar issues and typo's, and think it's ready to go

14:08:39 <webr3> ... any concerns?

... any concerns?

14:08:47 <webr3> benjamin: no

Benjamin Adrian: no

14:09:01 <webr3> steven: any diff?

Steven Pemberton: any diff?

14:09:21 <webr3> manu: there's is just so much diff ... diff not very helpful

Manu Sporny: there's is just so much diff ... diff not very helpful

14:09:38 <webr3> ... let me check to see if I can find it...

... let me check to see if I can find it...

14:09:40 <MacTed> no objection to FPWD (have only been able to skim it, myself)

Ted Thibodeau: no objection to FPWD (have only been able to skim it, myself)

14:09:54 <manu> Here's the diff: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2011/WD-rdfa-primer-20110419/diff-rdfa-primer-20110408.html

Manu Sporny: Here's the diff: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2011/WD-rdfa-primer-20110419/diff-rdfa-primer-20110408.html

14:10:05 <webr3> nathan: I've also reviewed and was happy with the doc

Nathan Rixham: I've also reviewed and was happy with the doc

14:11:23 <manu> PROPOSAL: Publish the RDFa Primer as a First Public Working Draft under the short name 'rdfa-primer'. The publication date should be April 19th 2011.

PROPOSED: Publish the RDFa Primer as a First Public Working Draft under the short name 'rdfa-primer'. The publication date should be April 19th 2011.

14:11:24 <Steven> +1

Steven Pemberton: +1

14:11:26 <manu> +1

Manu Sporny: +1

14:11:28 <webr3> Nathan: +1

Nathan Rixham: +1

14:11:32 <Benjamin> +1

Benjamin Adrian: +1

14:11:38 <manu> Ivan is +1 (via mailing list)

Manu Sporny: Ivan is +1 (via mailing list)

14:11:45 <manu> ShaneM is +1 (via mailing list)

Manu Sporny: ShaneM is +1 (via mailing list)

14:11:47 <Knud> +1

Knud Möller: +1

14:11:59 <MacTed> +0

Ted Thibodeau: +0

14:12:17 <manu> RESOLVED: Publish the RDFa Primer as a First Public Working Draft under the short name 'rdfa-primer'. The publication date should be April 19th 2011.

RESOLVED: Publish the RDFa Primer as a First Public Working Draft under the short name 'rdfa-primer'. The publication date should be April 19th 2011.

14:12:21 <webr3> macted: I've only been able to skim, hence +0

Ted Thibodeau: I've only been able to skim, hence +0

14:12:34 <manu> Topic: Publish the RDFa API as a heartbeat WD

2. Publish the RDFa API as a heartbeat WD

14:12:44 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2011/WD-rdfa-api-20110419/

Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2011/WD-rdfa-api-20110419/

14:13:13 <manu> Diff for the RDFa API is here: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2011/WD-rdfa-api-20110419/diff-20100923.html

Manu Sporny: Diff for the RDFa API is here: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2011/WD-rdfa-api-20110419/diff-20100923.html

14:15:05 <manu> Merged the Property Group interface into the Projection interface.

Manu Sporny: Merged the Property Group interface into the Projection interface.

14:15:07 <manu>  Added the setMapping method to the DocumentData interface.

Manu Sporny: Added the setMapping method to the DocumentData interface.

14:15:09 <manu>  Added the RDFa Environment interface

Manu Sporny: Added the RDFa Environment interface

14:15:11 <manu>  Removed the Introductory examples as they didn't add much to the readability of the document.

Manu Sporny: Removed the Introductory examples as they didn't add much to the readability of the document.

14:15:12 <manu>  Added getSubjects(), getProperties, getValues() and renamed getItemsBy* to getProjection*.

Manu Sporny: Added getSubjects(), getProperties, getValues() and renamed getItemsBy* to getProjection*.

14:15:33 <webr3> manu: unsure how many have reviewed the spec in detail

Manu Sporny: unsure how many have reviewed the spec in detail

14:15:51 <webr3> nathan: "The following changes have been made since the First Public Working Draft:"

Nathan Rixham: "The following changes have been made since the First Public Working Draft:"

14:17:03 <webr3> nathan: remove "The following changes have been made since the First Public Working Draft:" from status of document section, it's hard to follow

Nathan Rixham: remove "The following changes have been made since the First Public Working Draft:" from status of document section, it's hard to follow

14:17:07 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2011/WD-rdfa-api-20110419/#status-of-the-document

Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2011/WD-rdfa-api-20110419/#status-of-the-document

14:17:27 <webr3> ... also the RDFa WG is no longer correct, we're publishing as the RDF Web Applications WG now

... also the RDFa WG is no longer correct, we're publishing as the RDF Web Applications WG now

14:17:56 <Zakim> -Knud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Knud

14:18:08 <Benjamin> q+

Benjamin Adrian: q+

14:18:13 <webr3> manu: any other concerns?

Manu Sporny: any other concerns?

14:18:26 <MacTed> concur with the bullet=list relocation ...

Ted Thibodeau: concur with the bullet=list relocation ...

14:18:35 <webr3> Benjamin: we should publish to get the comments in

Benjamin Adrian: we should publish to get the comments in

14:19:00 <Zakim> +Knud

Zakim IRC Bot: +Knud

14:19:04 <manu> Manu: I think we should make Nathan's changes - I'll make them before sending out the publication request.

Manu Sporny: I think we should make Nathan's changes - I'll make them before sending out the publication request. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

14:19:06 <Zakim> -Benjamin

Zakim IRC Bot: -Benjamin

14:19:06 <Knud> zakim, mute me

Knud Möller: zakim, mute me

14:19:07 <Zakim> Knud should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Knud should now be muted

14:19:13 <MacTed> *was* this previously published by the group under the other name?  if so... the change should at least be noted

Ted Thibodeau: *was* this previously published by the group under the other name? if so... the change should at least be noted

14:19:46 <Zakim> +Benjamin

Zakim IRC Bot: +Benjamin

14:21:19 <webr3> MacTed: we need to be more explicit and ensure it points backwards and forwards

Ted Thibodeau: we need to be more explicit and ensure it points backwards and forwards

14:21:31 <webr3> nathan notes: it's all the same /TR/ uri though.. http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-api/ and back links are there

nathan notes: it's all the same /TR/ uri though.. http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-api/ and back links are there

14:22:07 <webr3> manu: so we should have the old xhtml primer point to the new primer in some way

Manu Sporny: so we should have the old xhtml primer point to the new primer in some way

14:23:57 <webr3> macted: it's primarily out-dated specs that I'm concerned with, perhaps out of scope here, but we need to be aware of it

Ted Thibodeau: it's primarily out-dated specs that I'm concerned with, perhaps out of scope here, but we need to be aware of it

14:24:10 <webr3> manu: wondering how we approach this

Manu Sporny: wondering how we approach this

14:24:49 <webr3> nathan: does it affect us now? for this..?

Nathan Rixham: does it affect us now? for this..?

14:25:03 <webr3> can we raise after we +1 these drafts..

can we raise after we +1 these drafts..

14:25:12 <manu> ISSUE: Figure out a way to denote old Working Drafts as "OUTDATED" and place a big warning on the old drafts.

ISSUE: Figure out a way to denote old Working Drafts as "OUTDATED" and place a big warning on the old drafts.

14:25:13 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-88 - Figure out a way to denote old Working Drafts as "OUTDATED" and place a big warning on the old drafts. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/88/edit .

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ISSUE-88 - Figure out a way to denote old Working Drafts as "OUTDATED" and place a big warning on the old drafts. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/88/edit .

14:26:02 <manu> We need to make 3 changes before publication: 1) Change the name of the RDFa Working Group to RDF Web Applications Working Group, 2) Note that the document has been transferred from the RDFa WG to the RDFWAWG, 3) Place the changes since the FPWD at the bottom of the document.

Manu Sporny: We need to make 3 changes before publication: 1) Change the name of the RDFa Working Group to RDF Web Applications Working Group, 2) Note that the document has been transferred from the RDFa WG to the RDFWAWG, 3) Place the changes since the FPWD at the bottom of the document.

14:29:17 <manu> PROPOSAL: Publish the RDFa API as a heartbeat Working Draft with the 3 changes requested by the group. The publication date should be April 19th 2011.

PROPOSED: Publish the RDFa API as a heartbeat Working Draft with the 3 changes requested by the group. The publication date should be April 19th 2011.

14:29:19 <webr3> Nathan: +1

Nathan Rixham: +1

14:29:21 <Benjamin> +1

Benjamin Adrian: +1

14:29:21 <manu> +1

Manu Sporny: +1

14:29:26 <Knud> +1

Knud Möller: +1

14:29:44 <MacTed> +1 for changes

Ted Thibodeau: +1 for changes

14:29:44 <MacTed> +0 proposal (again, have only been able to skim)

Ted Thibodeau: +0 proposal (again, have only been able to skim)

14:29:51 <Steven> +1

Steven Pemberton: +1

14:30:00 <manu> RESOLVED: Publish the RDFa API as a heartbeat Working Draft with the 3 changes requested by the group. The publication date should be April 19th 2011.

RESOLVED: Publish the RDFa API as a heartbeat Working Draft with the 3 changes requested by the group. The publication date should be April 19th 2011.

14:30:25 <manu> Topic: Remaining issues for RDF API

3. Remaining issues for RDF API

14:30:58 <manu> Scribenick: manu

(Scribe set to Manu Sporny)

14:30:58 <manu> Nathan: The changes that I'm looking at before it goes FPWD are pretty simple...

Nathan Rixham: The changes that I'm looking at before it goes FPWD are pretty simple...

14:31:23 <manu> Nathan: Most of them are around RDF Environment... terms, prefixes, profiles

Nathan Rixham: Most of them are around RDF Environment... terms, prefixes, profiles

14:31:29 <webr3> change PrefixMap.resolve return null if prefix not set

Nathan Rixham: change PrefixMap.resolve return null if prefix not set

14:31:39 <manu> Nathan: That's mostly a cleanup

Nathan Rixham: That's mostly a cleanup

14:32:05 <manu> Nathan: We had a few optimistic - import prefix mappings and term mappings from a graph - it's out of place / out of scope for the API

Nathan Rixham: We had a few optimistic - import prefix mappings and term mappings from a graph - it's out of place / out of scope for the API

14:32:32 <webr3>  PrefixMap                  importFromGraph (in Graph graph, in optional boolean override);

Nathan Rixham: PrefixMap importFromGraph (in Graph graph, in optional boolean override);

14:33:16 <manu> Nathan: This creates dependency hell - it pulls everything in - people may want it, but no need to have it on here.

Nathan Rixham: This creates dependency hell - it pulls everything in - people may want it, but no need to have it on here.

14:33:24 <webr3> remove Parser.profile

Nathan Rixham: remove Parser.profile

14:33:36 <manu> Nathan: Most of these are things were optimistically added.

Nathan Rixham: Most of these are things were optimistically added.

14:34:10 <manu> Nathan: The original idea behind this is that if you have a graph, and have a profile generated by that graph - you want to have it available to you. However, since prefixes can be overwritten during parse, I don't see how it's possible to implement cleanly. You will never be able to have the /all/ of the prefixes mentioned in the document in a clean way.

Nathan Rixham: The original idea behind this is that if you have a graph, and have a profile generated by that graph - you want to have it available to you. However, since prefixes can be overwritten during parse, I don't see how it's possible to implement cleanly. You will never be able to have the /all/ of the prefixes mentioned in the document in a clean way.

14:34:25 <webr3> try method on TripleAction change to 'run' or other

Nathan Rixham: try method on TripleAction change to 'run' or other

14:34:46 <manu> Nathan: The TripleAction interface - we currently have 'try' - but that's used by languages for Exception handling.

Nathan Rixham: The TripleAction interface - we currently have 'try' - but that's used by languages for Exception handling.

14:34:52 <manu> Nathan: So we should rename to 'run'

Nathan Rixham: So we should rename to 'run'

14:35:02 <webr3> 3 bigger changes

Nathan Rixham: 3 bigger changes

14:35:02 <manu> Nathan: There are 3 bigger changes

Nathan Rixham: There are 3 bigger changes

14:35:03 <webr3> 1) get rid of NCName description. define term as string w/ no colon or whitespace

Nathan Rixham: 1) get rid of NCName description. define term as string w/ no colon or whitespace

14:35:42 <manu> Nathan: The definition of prefixes in other serialization isn't NCName.

Nathan Rixham: The definition of prefixes in other serialization isn't NCName.

14:36:30 <manu> Nathan: In TURTLE and SPARQL - dots can be put in there - there is no need to put a NCName constraint on it in JavaScript.

Nathan Rixham: In TURTLE and SPARQL - dots can be put in there - there is no need to put a NCName constraint on it in JavaScript.

14:36:51 <manu> Nathan: Why should the API limit it to NCName - the API should leave this loosely defined.

Nathan Rixham: Why should the API limit it to NCName - the API should leave this loosely defined.

14:37:01 <manu> Manu: I agree

Manu Sporny: I agree

14:37:03 <webr3> 2) perhaps change 'term' to 'alias'. (AliasMap)

Nathan Rixham: 2) perhaps change 'term' to 'alias'. (AliasMap)

14:37:23 <manu> Manu: We picked terminology from RDFa - but a "Term" in RDF and SPARQL is something completely different.

Nathan Rixham: We picked terminology from RDFa - but a "Term" in RDF and SPARQL is something completely different.

14:37:36 <manu> s/Manu:/Nathan:/
14:37:46 <manu> Nathan: I suggest that we change 'term' to 'alias'.

Nathan Rixham: I suggest that we change 'term' to 'alias'.

14:37:57 <Benjamin> +1 to change term to alias

Benjamin Adrian: +1 to change term to alias

14:39:26 <manu> Manu: I'm concerned about having two things 'term' and 'alias' when we're really talking about one thing.

Manu Sporny: I'm concerned about having two things 'term' and 'alias' when we're really talking about one thing.

14:39:38 <manu> Nathan: RDF and SPARQL don't have these concepts

Nathan Rixham: RDF and SPARQL don't have these concepts

14:39:41 <webr3> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/#sparqlBasicTerms

Nathan Rixham: http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/#sparqlBasicTerms

14:40:02 <webr3> nathan: i agree

Nathan Rixham: i agree [ Scribe Assist by Nathan Rixham ]

14:40:53 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

14:41:08 <Knud> sounds good to me

Knud Möller: sounds good to me

14:41:10 <Steven> ok

Steven Pemberton: ok

14:41:13 <Benjamin> +1

Benjamin Adrian: +1

14:41:19 <manu> ISSUE: Decide what word we want to use to refer to the concept of RDFa terms - 'term' or 'alias'

ISSUE: Decide what word we want to use to refer to the concept of RDFa terms - 'term' or 'alias'

14:41:19 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-89 - Decide what word we want to use to refer to the concept of RDFa terms - 'term' or 'alias' ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/89/edit .

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ISSUE-89 - Decide what word we want to use to refer to the concept of RDFa terms - 'term' or 'alias' ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/89/edit .

14:42:24 <webr3> 3) remove profile.base

Nathan Rixham: 3) remove profile.base

14:42:26 <manu> Manu: Why don't you go ahead and change it to 'alias' in the RDF API - we can always raise it as an issue later on.

Manu Sporny: Why don't you go ahead and change it to 'alias' in the RDF API - we can always raise it as an issue later on.

14:42:32 <manu> Nathan: Ok

Nathan Rixham: Ok

14:42:52 <manu> Nathan: The entire API works will full URIs - there are a couple of little things like parsers needing to deal w/ relative URIs is important.

Nathan Rixham: The entire API works will full URIs - there are a couple of little things like parsers needing to deal w/ relative URIs is important.

14:43:13 <manu> Nathan: Originally we had a BASE that we could resolve against in the API - however, it's a bit out of scope for the API

Nathan Rixham: Originally we had a BASE that we could resolve against in the API - however, it's a bit out of scope for the API

14:43:45 <manu> Nathan: The danger is that you have a profile w/ all your settings and you have a BASE - and the parser changes the BASE value while it's parsing - the base is going to change and that could possibly break your code because the BASE changed.

Nathan Rixham: The danger is that you have a profile w/ all your settings and you have a BASE - and the parser changes the BASE value while it's parsing - the base is going to change and that could possibly break your code because the BASE changed.

14:44:00 <manu> Nathan: it's only there as a utility method, it's not really necessary for the main functionality.

Nathan Rixham: it's only there as a utility method, it's not really necessary for the main functionality.

14:44:06 <manu> Manu: I think we should remove it.

Manu Sporny: I think we should remove it.

14:44:32 <manu> Manu: that is, unless people really want it in there.

Manu Sporny: that is, unless people really want it in there.

14:44:48 <webr3> add three new methods to graph

Nathan Rixham: add three new methods to graph

14:44:49 <webr3> - subjects( p, o )

Nathan Rixham: - subjects( p, o )

14:44:49 <webr3> - predicates( s, o )

Nathan Rixham: - predicates( s, o )

14:44:49 <webr3> - objects( s, p )

Nathan Rixham: - objects( s, p )

14:44:49 <webr3> each one of which would return a Set of the related values.

Nathan Rixham: each one of which would return a Set of the related values.

14:45:52 <manu> Nathan: I'm probably going to leave that out for now.

Nathan Rixham: I'm probably going to leave that out for now.

14:46:39 <manu> Nathan: Once you have a grounded graph - one w/ no bnodes - you can do all types of really cool stuff like skolemize / union

Nathan Rixham: Once you have a grounded graph - one w/ no bnodes - you can do all types of really cool stuff like skolemize / union

14:49:21 <manu> Manu: Maybe we need to wait off on that - seems a bit out of scope right now, but we may get a comment like "You guys need to focus on digital signatures", which would make us want to put support in for grounded graphs.

Manu Sporny: Maybe we need to wait off on that - seems a bit out of scope right now, but we may get a comment like "You guys need to focus on digital signatures", which would make us want to put support in for grounded graphs.

14:49:22 <manu> Manu: at which point, we'd have to talk about grounded graphs.

Manu Sporny: at which point, we'd have to talk about grounded graphs.

14:49:23 <manu> Nathan: These are the things people may be concerned about:

Nathan Rixham: These are the things people may be concerned about:

14:49:24 <webr3> 1) rdf concepts

Nathan Rixham: 1) rdf concepts

14:49:42 <webr3> 2) subject literals, bnode predicate

Nathan Rixham: 2) subject literals, bnode predicate

14:49:52 <webr3> 3) literal predicates

Nathan Rixham: 3) literal predicates

14:49:58 <webr3> 4) graph literals

Nathan Rixham: 4) graph literals

14:50:34 <webr3> 5) why not standarize lirbary X (i use lib-X or lib-Y, standardize that!)

Nathan Rixham: 5) why not standarize lirbary X (i use lib-X or lib-Y, standardize that!)

14:51:01 <manu> Manu: Our response to those items is going to have to be: Why should we artificially constrain the API? The only issue is when you attempt to serialize the graph and if one tries to serialize a graph in a format that doesn't allow serialization of a portion of the graph, a conforming implementation can just skip over the serializations that it doesn't support.

Manu Sporny: Our response to those items is going to have to be: Why should we artificially constrain the API? The only issue is when you attempt to serialize the graph and if one tries to serialize a graph in a format that doesn't allow serialization of a portion of the graph, a conforming implementation can just skip over the serializations that it doesn't support.

14:51:24 <Benjamin> q+

Benjamin Adrian: q+

14:51:36 <MacTed> s'ok

Ted Thibodeau: s'ok

14:51:44 <manu> Manu: any concerns?

Manu Sporny: any concerns?

14:51:56 <Steven> no

Steven Pemberton: no

14:51:58 <manu> Hearing no concerns... moving forward with RDF API direction.

Hearing no concerns... moving forward with RDF API direction.

14:52:29 <Benjamin> Could you not hear me?

Benjamin Adrian: Could you not hear me?

14:53:27 <manu> Nope, you were muted?

Nope, you were muted?

14:53:28 <manu> Benjamin: I think we need a good introduction and simple prose and examples to help explain how to use the API. It's difficult to know how to use the API just by looking at the WebIDL.

Benjamin Adrian: I think we need a good introduction and simple prose and examples to help explain how to use the API. It's difficult to know how to use the API just by looking at the WebIDL.

14:53:29 <manu> Manu: I agree

Manu Sporny: I agree

14:53:37 <webr3> yes, i agree, needs padded w/ prose

Nathan Rixham: yes, i agree, needs padded w/ prose

14:54:23 <manu> ACTION: Benjamin to create use cases and example to place into the RDF API document.

ACTION: Benjamin to create use cases and example to place into the RDF API document.

14:54:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-72 - Create use cases and example to place into the RDF API document. [on Benjamin Adrian - due 2011-04-21].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-72 - Create use cases and example to place into the RDF API document. [on Benjamin Adrian - due 2011-04-21].

14:54:44 <webr3> action: nathan to update rdf api ready for fpwd

ACTION: nathan to update rdf api ready for fpwd

14:54:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-73 - Update rdf api ready for fpwd [on Nathan Rixham - due 2011-04-21].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-73 - Update rdf api ready for fpwd [on Nathan Rixham - due 2011-04-21].

14:57:09 <webr3> q+

Nathan Rixham: q+

14:58:29 <manu> ack Benjamin

ack Benjamin

14:58:36 <manu> ack [IPcaller]

ack [IPcaller]

14:58:57 <manu> Topic: HTML WG ISSUE-120 prefixes/CURIEs issue

4. HTML WG ISSUE-120 prefixes/CURIEs issue

14:58:59 <manu> Manu: There is talk that the HTML WG Chair's decision to preserve prefixes/CURIEs in HTML5 and HTML4 is going to be challenged. That is, there has been a formal objection and the new evidence being presented is that Facebook, Google, and Yahoo have not implemented CURIE processing correctly. We know that Facebook implemented it incorrectly, but they want to implement it correctly eventually. We don't know if Google implemented it correctly and we don't know if they want to implement it correctly. We thought Yahoo! had implemented it correctly, but people are now saying that they didn't, and we know that they want to implement it correctly. We need to ping all of these companies and find out if they intend to fix their broken implementations.

Manu Sporny: There is talk that the HTML WG Chair's decision to preserve prefixes/CURIEs in HTML5 and HTML4 is going to be challenged. That is, there has been a formal objection and the new evidence being presented is that Facebook, Google, and Yahoo have not implemented CURIE processing correctly. We know that Facebook implemented it incorrectly, but they want to implement it correctly eventually. We don't know if Google implemented it correctly and we don't know if they want to implement it correctly. We thought Yahoo! had implemented it correctly, but people are now saying that they didn't, and we know that they want to implement it correctly. We need to ping all of these companies and find out if they intend to fix their broken implementations.

14:59:44 <manu> Nathan: I don't think that this is a big issue - big implementers are stating that their broken implementations are just that - they plan to support prefixes/namespaces and need them in there.

Nathan Rixham: I don't think that this is a big issue - big implementers are stating that their broken implementations are just that - they plan to support prefixes/namespaces and need them in there.

15:00:24 <manu> Nathan: Be conservative in what you send, liberal in what you receive applies here.

Nathan Rixham: Be conservative in what you send, liberal in what you receive applies here.

15:01:41 <Zakim> -MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed

15:01:42 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller]

15:01:43 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven

15:01:45 <Zakim> -manu

Zakim IRC Bot: -manu

15:01:45 <Zakim> -Knud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Knud

15:01:46 <Zakim> -Benjamin

Zakim IRC Bot: -Benjamin

15:01:47 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended

15:01:48 <Zakim> Attendees were [IPcaller], manu, Steven, MacTed, +3539149aaaa, Knud, +49.631.205.75.aabb, Benjamin

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were [IPcaller], manu, Steven, MacTed, +3539149aaaa, Knud, +49.631.205.75.aabb, Benjamin



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