13:57:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/08/12-rdfa-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/08/12-rdfa-irc ←
13:57:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
13:57:39 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 7332 ←
13:57:39 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes ←
13:57:40 <trackbot> Meeting: RDFa Working Group Teleconference
13:57:40 <trackbot> Date: 12 August 2010
13:57:45 <manu> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2010Aug/0056.html
13:59:13 <manu> Chair: Manu
13:59:13 <manu> Present: Benjamin, Ivan, Knud, Manu, MarkB, Shane, Toby
13:59:22 <manu> Regrets: knud
14:00:02 <ivan> zakim, code?
Ivan Herman: zakim, code? ←
14:00:02 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), ivan ←
14:00:47 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started ←
14:00:55 <Zakim> +??P6
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P6 ←
14:01:06 <manu> zakim, ??P6 is manu
Manu Sporny: zakim, ??P6 is manu ←
14:01:06 <Zakim> +manu; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +manu; got it ←
14:01:42 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
14:01:42 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
14:01:43 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
14:02:25 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?
Mark Birbeck: zakim, code? ←
14:02:25 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), markbirbeck
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), markbirbeck ←
14:03:03 <Zakim> +??P7
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7 ←
14:03:08 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am ?
Mark Birbeck: zakim, i am ? ←
14:03:08 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +markbirbeck; got it ←
14:03:49 <Zakim> +ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←
14:03:56 <markbirbeck> zakim, who is here?
Mark Birbeck: zakim, who is here? ←
14:03:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see manu, Ivan, markbirbeck, ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see manu, Ivan, markbirbeck, ShaneM ←
14:03:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see markbirbeck, RRSAgent, trackbot, Zakim, manu, tinkster1, Benjamin, ivan, tinkster
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see markbirbeck, RRSAgent, trackbot, Zakim, manu, tinkster1, Benjamin, ivan, tinkster ←
14:05:58 <Zakim> + +49.631.205.75.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +49.631.205.75.aaaa ←
14:06:28 <Benjamin> Zakim, aaaa is Benjamin
Benjamin Adrian: Zakim, aaaa is Benjamin ←
14:06:28 <Zakim> +Benjamin; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Benjamin; got it ←
14:07:50 <Zakim> +tinkster
Zakim IRC Bot: +tinkster ←
14:09:57 <tinkster1> manu: any updates/changes to the agenda?
Manu Sporny: any updates/changes to the agenda? [ Scribe Assist by Toby Inkster ] ←
14:10:04 <tinkster1> Scribenick: tinkster
(Scribe set to Toby Inkster)
14:10:04 <manu> Scribe: Toby
14:10:20 <manu> Topic: ISSUE-28: rdfa-api-errors-nathan
14:11:14 <tinkster1> manu: 2 weeks agao, I tried to fix all the editorial issues that Nathan spotted; accidentally made one non-editorial change.
Manu Sporny: 2 weeks ago, I tried to fix all the editorial issues that Nathan spotted; accidentally made one non-editorial change. ←
14:11:23 <tinkster1> s/agao/ago/
14:12:10 <tinkster1> ... have tried to respond to each issue individually. Waiting on a response from Nathan before we can close the issue. Anybody disagree? Think it needs to stay open?
... have tried to respond to each issue individually. Waiting on a response from Nathan before we can close the issue. Anybody disagree? Think it needs to stay open? ←
14:12:34 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/28
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/28 ←
14:12:43 <manu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2010Aug/0001.html
Manu Sporny: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2010Aug/0001.html ←
14:12:50 <manu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2010Aug/0000.html
Manu Sporny: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2010Aug/0000.html ←
14:12:56 <manu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2010Aug/0005.html
Manu Sporny: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2010Aug/0005.html ←
14:14:18 <tinkster1> ... First issue is setMapping - we want to pass in plain strings as often as possible rather than requiring people to create unnecessary object wrappers.
... First issue is setMapping - we want to pass in plain strings as often as possible rather than requiring people to create unnecessary object wrappers. ←
14:15:16 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
14:15:33 <manu> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
14:15:34 <tinkster1> ... Ultimately we want to switch from using DOMStrings to plain Strings.
... Ultimately we want to switch from using DOMStrings to plain Strings. ←
14:16:44 <manu> ISSUE: RDFa API should use 'string' instead of 'DOMString' in the WebIDL
ISSUE: RDFa API should use 'string' instead of 'DOMString' in the WebIDL ←
14:16:45 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-42 - RDFa API should use 'string' instead of 'DOMString' in the WebIDL ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/42/edit .
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ISSUE-42 - RDFa API should use 'string' instead of 'DOMString' in the WebIDL ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/42/edit . ←
14:17:44 <markbirbeck> q+
Mark Birbeck: q+ ←
14:17:53 <manu> ack markbirbeck
Manu Sporny: ack markbirbeck ←
14:18:27 <tinkster1> ivan: RDF uses unicode; when you interact with the outside world, you need to pick an encoding.
Ivan Herman: RDF uses unicode; when you interact with the outside world, you need to pick an encoding. ←
14:18:42 <Benjamin> q+
Benjamin Adrian: q+ ←
14:18:52 <manu> q+ to discuss abstract representation
Manu Sporny: q+ to discuss abstract representation ←
14:18:56 <markbirbeck> http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Core/core.html#ID-C74D1578
Mark Birbeck: http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Core/core.html#ID-C74D1578 ←
14:18:58 <manu> ack benjamin
Manu Sporny: ack benjamin ←
14:19:09 <tinkster1> markbirbeck: DOMString is basically just a name that binds to native string classes/types depending on the platform. UTF-16.
Mark Birbeck: DOMString is basically just a name that binds to native string classes/types depending on the platform. UTF-16. ←
14:19:28 <markbirbeck> Quote - "Note: Even though the DOM defines the name of the string type to be DOMString, bindings may use different names. For example for Java, DOMString is bound to the String type because it also uses UTF-16 as its encoding."
Mark Birbeck: Quote - "Note: Even though the DOM defines the name of the string type to be DOMString, bindings may use different names. For example for Java, DOMString is bound to the String type because it also uses UTF-16 as its encoding." ←
14:19:39 <manu> ack
Manu Sporny: ack ←
14:19:47 <tinkster1> Benjamin: we use DOMString for plain literals and typed literals. Should we make everything UTF-8?
Benjamin Adrian: we use DOMString for plain literals and typed literals. Should we make everything UTF-8? ←
14:19:58 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
14:20:03 <ivan> ack manu
Ivan Herman: ack manu ←
14:20:03 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to discuss abstract representation
Zakim IRC Bot: manu, you wanted to discuss abstract representation ←
14:20:25 <manu> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
14:21:04 <tinkster1> ivan: we should try to be compatible with webapps wg.
Ivan Herman: we should try to be compatible with webapps wg. ←
14:22:00 <tinkster1> manu: Another issue in the e-mail is that we need to have a 'type' parameter to the createParser call, so that you can choose which format you want to parse.
Manu Sporny: Another issue in the e-mail is that we need to have a 'type' parameter to the createParser call, so that you can choose which format you want to parse. ←
14:25:04 <tinkster1> ... document.data.createParser(type, store)
... document.data.createParser(type, store) ←
14:27:43 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-dom-api/
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-dom-api/ ←
14:27:48 <markbirbeck> Nathan' comment:
Mark Birbeck: Nathan' comment: ←
14:27:50 <markbirbeck> > DocumentData has the createParser( type , store ) method, but DataParser
Mark Birbeck: > DocumentData has the createParser( type , store ) method, but DataParser ←
14:27:51 <markbirbeck> > has no constructor which accepts a type, or any way of setting the type.
Mark Birbeck: > has no constructor which accepts a type, or any way of setting the type. ←
14:28:07 <markbirbeck> Manu replies:
Mark Birbeck: Manu replies: ←
14:28:09 <markbirbeck> I have added a property called "type" to the Data Parser interface.
Mark Birbeck: I have added a property called "type" to the Data Parser interface. ←
14:28:46 <manu> http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-rdfa-api-20100608/#document-data
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-rdfa-api-20100608/#document-data ←
14:29:45 <tinkster1> ... Is the general agreement that the constructor (a against the factory method) does not need a 'type' parameter?
... Is the general agreement that the constructor (a against the factory method) does not need a 'type' parameter? ←
14:30:39 <tinkster1> markbirbeck: is the new thing you've added the 'type' property of the DataParser interface?
Mark Birbeck: is the new thing you've added the 'type' property of the DataParser interface? ←
14:31:45 <tinkster1> manu: yes, that's the difference; though .type might be redundant - they could just do typeof() on the object.
Manu Sporny: yes, that's the difference; though .type might be redundant - they could just do typeof() on the object. ←
14:32:49 <tinkster1> markbirbeck: should we have DataParser.hasFeature('foo')?
Mark Birbeck: should we have DataParser.hasFeature('foo')? ←
14:33:14 <tinkster1> ivan: then would we need to enumerate loads of different features?
Ivan Herman: then would we need to enumerate loads of different features? ←
14:34:17 <tinkster1> markbirbeck: we'd only need to define the 'rdfa' feature and provide a framework for other feature strings to be defined.
Mark Birbeck: we'd only need to define the 'rdfa' feature and provide a framework for other feature strings to be defined. ←
14:34:28 <tinkster1> ivan: I'd be concerned about this.
Ivan Herman: I'd be concerned about this. ←
14:35:07 <manu> ISSUE: Determine if DataParser interface needs a hasFeature("hcard") or hasFeature("hrecipe") mechanism.
ISSUE: Determine if DataParser interface needs a hasFeature("hcard") or hasFeature("hrecipe") mechanism. ←
14:35:08 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-43 - Determine if DataParser interface needs a hasFeature("hcard") or hasFeature("hrecipe") mechanism. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/43/edit .
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ISSUE-43 - Determine if DataParser interface needs a hasFeature("hcard") or hasFeature("hrecipe") mechanism. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/43/edit . ←
14:35:33 <manu> PROPOSAL: Remove 'type' from DataParser interface until ISSUE-43 is resolved.
PROPOSED: Remove 'type' from DataParser interface until ISSUE-43 is resolved. ←
14:35:43 <manu> +1
Manu Sporny: +1 ←
14:35:48 <markbirbeck> +1
Mark Birbeck: +1 ←
14:35:49 <tinkster1> +1
+1 ←
14:35:49 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
14:35:50 <Benjamin> +1
Benjamin Adrian: +1 ←
14:35:59 <tinkster1> markbirbeck: I agree about avoiding complexity; perhaps we should remove 'type' for now which although simple, is not going to be up to the job.
Mark Birbeck: I agree about avoiding complexity; perhaps we should remove 'type' for now which although simple, is not going to be up to the job. ←
14:36:08 <ShaneM> dont care
Shane McCarron: dont care ←
14:36:10 <manu> RESOLVED: Remove 'type' from DataParser interface until ISSUE-43 is resolved.
RESOLVED: Remove 'type' from DataParser interface until ISSUE-43 is resolved. ←
14:36:33 <manu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2010Aug/0000.html
Manu Sporny: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2010Aug/0000.html ←
14:37:38 <tinkster1> manu: parser.parse(url) method?
Manu Sporny: parser.parse(url) method? ←
14:38:03 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
14:38:48 <tinkster1> ... idea is to pull in triples from multiple pages to one store, and do stuff with that.
... idea is to pull in triples from multiple pages to one store, and do stuff with that. ←
14:39:03 <tinkster1> ... How to avoid CORS/security issues?
... How to avoid CORS/security issues? ←
14:39:12 <manu> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
14:39:13 <markbirbeck> q+
Mark Birbeck: q+ ←
14:39:22 <tinkster1> ... This isn't an issue on the tracker, but maybe should be on there.
... This isn't an issue on the tracker, but maybe should be on there. ←
14:41:04 <tinkster1> ivan: this is a good feature. The API isn't just for browsers, so we shouldn't let problems that are browser-specific stop us from adding it to the API.
Ivan Herman: this is a good feature. The API isn't just for browsers, so we shouldn't let problems that are browser-specific stop us from adding it to the API. ←
14:41:13 <manu> ISSUE: Add a mechanism to the RDFa API to parse remote documents and place them into a DataStore.
ISSUE: Add a mechanism to the RDFa API to parse remote documents and place them into a DataStore. ←
14:41:14 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-44 - Add a mechanism to the RDFa API to parse remote documents and place them into a DataStore. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/44/edit .
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ISSUE-44 - Add a mechanism to the RDFa API to parse remote documents and place them into a DataStore. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/44/edit . ←
14:42:05 <manu> q+ to discuss remote RDFa fetching and CORS.
Manu Sporny: q+ to discuss remote RDFa fetching and CORS. ←
14:42:08 <manu> ack
Manu Sporny: ack ←
14:42:21 <tinkster1> markbirbeck: in the first instance, we should copy the XmlHTTPRequest security model.
Mark Birbeck: in the first instance, we should copy the XmlHTTPRequest security model. ←
14:42:32 <manu> q?
Manu Sporny: q? ←
14:42:34 <manu> ack
Manu Sporny: ack ←
14:42:38 <manu> ack markbirbeck
Manu Sporny: ack markbirbeck ←
14:43:07 <manu> ack
Manu Sporny: ack ←
14:43:09 <manu> ack manu
Manu Sporny: ack manu ←
14:43:09 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to discuss remote RDFa fetching and CORS.
Zakim IRC Bot: manu, you wanted to discuss remote RDFa fetching and CORS. ←
14:43:32 <tinkster1> markbirbeck: we should put this method in, and just make it clear that some programming environments will disallow you from using it in some situations.
Mark Birbeck: we should put this method in, and just make it clear that some programming environments will disallow you from using it in some situations. ←
14:44:12 <tinkster1> manu: we'll add this to the tracker.
Manu Sporny: we'll add this to the tracker. ←
14:44:57 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
14:45:06 <manu> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
14:45:08 <tinkster1> manu: next issue - how do you get a list of all triples? answer: just call filter() without any arguments. fixed a editorial bug where the subject was non-optional.
Manu Sporny: next issue - how do you get a list of all triples? answer: just call filter() without any arguments. fixed a editorial bug where the subject was non-optional. ←
14:46:37 <tinkster1> ivan: does filter() return a new data store containing the triples; or an array?
Ivan Herman: does filter() return a new data store containing the triples; or an array? ←
14:47:11 <tinkster1> manu: data stores have a foreach method for iterating through them.
Manu Sporny: data stores have a foreach method for iterating through them. ←
14:47:50 <ShaneM> this sort of patter is very common in javascript these days.
Shane McCarron: this sort of pattern is very common in javascript these days. ←
14:47:56 <ShaneM> s/patter/pattern/
14:47:59 <tinkster1> ... having filter() return another data store allows them to be chained together.
... having filter() return another data store allows them to be chained together. ←
14:48:40 <manu> document.data.store.filter(None, "foaf:name").forEach(function (s, p, o) { doSomething() });
Manu Sporny: document.data.store.filter(None, "foaf:name").forEach(function (s, p, o) { doSomething() }); ←
14:48:56 <ivan> for s,o in graph.triples(None,foaf["name"],None) : do something with s,o
Ivan Herman: for s,o in graph.triples(None,foaf["name"],None) : do something with s,o ←
14:49:20 <markbirbeck> q+
Mark Birbeck: q+ ←
14:49:30 <manu> q+ to discuss array decompisition
Manu Sporny: q+ to discuss array decompisition ←
14:49:43 <manu> ack markbirbeck
Manu Sporny: ack markbirbeck ←
14:50:12 <tinkster1> var graph = document.data.store; graph.filter(null, "foaf:name").foreach(function (s,p,o){doSomething();});
var graph = document.data.store; graph.filter(null, "foaf:name").foreach(function (s,p,o){doSomething();}); ←
14:52:05 <tinkster1> markbirbeck: I do have another proposal I'd like to take to the mailing list, which makes more interesting queries much simpler.
Mark Birbeck: I do have another proposal I'd like to take to the mailing list, which makes more interesting queries much simpler. ←
14:52:42 <tinkster1> ... in a programming language, I want a projection, not triples.
... in a programming language, I want a projection, not triples. ←
14:52:49 <manu> ack manu
Manu Sporny: ack manu ←
14:52:49 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to discuss array decompisition
Zakim IRC Bot: manu, you wanted to discuss array decompisition ←
14:53:19 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
14:53:33 <manu> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
14:54:16 <markbirbeck> q+
Mark Birbeck: q+ ←
14:54:30 <ShaneM> in perl: while ( my (s, o) = graph->triples(....) ) { some actions on s and o }
Shane McCarron: in perl: while ( my (s, o) = graph->triples(....) ) { some actions on s and o } ←
14:55:12 <Benjamin> q+
Benjamin Adrian: q+ ←
14:55:17 <manu> q+ to discuss DataParser.iterate()
Manu Sporny: q+ to discuss DataParser.iterate() ←
14:55:34 <manu> ack markbirbeck
Manu Sporny: ack markbirbeck ←
14:56:31 <tinkster1> markbirbeck: callbacks are an increasingly popular way of working. we should support them.
Mark Birbeck: callbacks are an increasingly popular way of working. we should support them. ←
14:57:07 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
14:57:15 <manu> ack benjamin
Manu Sporny: ack benjamin ←
14:57:27 <tinkster1> ... the issue is more whether we should be feeding triples into this callback, or a dictionary/hash/associative-array/projection/whatever-you-want-to-call-it.
... the issue is more whether we should be feeding triples into this callback, or a dictionary/hash/associative-array/projection/whatever-you-want-to-call-it. ←
14:57:56 <manu> ack manu
Manu Sporny: ack manu ←
14:57:56 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to discuss DataParser.iterate()
Zakim IRC Bot: manu, you wanted to discuss DataParser.iterate() ←
14:58:38 <tinkster1> In Perl you can do this: ($first, $second, $third) = @somearray
In Perl you can do this: ($first, $second, $third) = @somearray ←
14:58:49 <tinkster1> That's decomposing the array.
That's decomposing the array. ←
14:58:52 <manu> you can't do that in ECMAScript
Manu Sporny: you can't do that in ECMAScript ←
14:59:11 <ivan> for triple in graph.triple(None, foaf["name"], None) : do something with 't'
Ivan Herman: for triple in graph.triple(None, foaf["name"], None) : do something with 't' ←
14:59:21 <ShaneM> why does each language binding to the webidl need to be the same? what am I missing here?
Shane McCarron: why does each language binding to the webidl need to be the same? what am I missing here? ←
14:59:54 <manu> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
15:00:41 <manu> q+ to mention that DataStore is iterable
Manu Sporny: q+ to mention that DataStore is iterable ←
15:00:56 <tinkster1> ivan: all I want it a way to get the results of filter as an array.
Ivan Herman: all I want it a way to get the results of filter as an array. ←
15:01:02 <manu> ack manu
Manu Sporny: ack manu ←
15:01:02 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to mention that DataStore is iterable
Zakim IRC Bot: manu, you wanted to mention that DataStore is iterable ←
15:01:10 <manu> DataStore [IndexGetter]
Manu Sporny: DataStore [IndexGetter] ←
15:01:44 <manu> for t in document.data.filter(None, "foaf:name") { ... }
Manu Sporny: for t in document.data.filter(None, "foaf:name") { ... } ←
15:02:22 <tinkster1> None = the subject
None = the subject ←
15:02:29 <markbirbeck> null?
Mark Birbeck: null? ←
15:02:34 <manu> for t in document.data.filter(SUBJECT, PREDICATE, OBJECT) { ... }
Manu Sporny: for t in document.data.filter(SUBJECT, PREDICATE, OBJECT) { ... } ←
15:02:36 <Benjamin> q+
Benjamin Adrian: q+ ←
15:02:40 <manu> q+ to end the call
Manu Sporny: q+ to end the call ←
15:02:46 <manu> ack benjamin
Manu Sporny: ack benjamin ←
15:04:48 <manu> ack manu
Manu Sporny: ack manu ←
15:04:48 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to end the call
Zakim IRC Bot: manu, you wanted to end the call ←
15:07:42 <Zakim> -tinkster
Zakim IRC Bot: -tinkster ←
15:08:58 <ShaneM> q+ to ask about supporting javascript stuff
Shane McCarron: q+ to ask about supporting javascript stuff ←
15:09:04 <manu> ack shane
Manu Sporny: ack shane ←
15:09:04 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to ask about supporting javascript stuff
Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to ask about supporting javascript stuff ←
Formatted by CommonScribe