Meeting Record

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RDFa in XHTML Task Force

Minutes of 03 December 2009

Agenda

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Dec/0026.html

Present

Unknown Manu_Sporny

Regrets

Unknown Ben_Adida

Chair

Unknown Manu_Sporny

Scribe

Unknown manu

Previous Meeting

http://www.w3.org/2009/11/19-rdfa-minutes.html

IRC Log

Original

Resolutions

None.

Topics

Action Items
RDFa WG charter status
@vocab discussion
"On Hold" Test Cases 142 and 154

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15:35:49 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-irc ←

15:35:53 <manu> zakim, this will be rdfa

Scribe problem: the name 'manu' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown manu: zakim, this will be rdfa ←

15:35:53 <Zakim> ok, manu; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 25 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, manu; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 25 minutes ←

15:36:11 <manu> scribenick: manu

(Scribe set to Unknown manu)

15:36:23 <manu> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Dec/0026.html

15:36:35 <manu> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2009/11/19-rdfa-minutes.html

15:36:50 <manu> Present: Manu_Sporny

Scribe problem: the name 'Manu_Sporny' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

15:36:58 <manu> Chair: Manu_Sporny

15:37:10 <manu> rrsagent, make logs public

Unknown Manu_Sporny: rrsagent, make logs public ←

15:37:21 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes

Unknown Manu_Sporny: rrsagent, draft minutes ←

15:37:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html manu

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html manu ←

15:38:16 <manu> Meeting: RDFa in XHTML Task Force

15:57:23 <manu> Present+ Mark Birbeck

(No events recorded for 20 minutes)

Unknown Manu_Sporny: Present+ Mark_Birbeck ←

15:57:30 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes

Unknown Manu_Sporny: rrsagent, draft minutes ←

15:57:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html manu

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html manu ←

15:58:05 <manu> s/Mark Birbeck/Mark_Birbeck/

15:58:07 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes

Unknown Manu_Sporny: rrsagent, draft minutes ←

15:58:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html manu

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html manu ←

15:59:04 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started ←

15:59:10 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

15:59:25 <manu> zakim, I am +[IPcaller]

Unknown Manu_Sporny: zakim, I am +[IPcaller] ←

15:59:25 <Zakim> sorry, manu, I do not see a party named '+[IPcaller]'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, manu, I do not see a party named '+[IPcaller]' ←

15:59:29 <manu> zakim, I am +IPcaller

Unknown Manu_Sporny: zakim, I am +IPcaller ←

15:59:29 <Zakim> sorry, manu, I do not see a party named '+IPcaller'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, manu, I do not see a party named '+IPcaller' ←

15:59:33 <manu> zakim, I am IPcaller

Unknown Manu_Sporny: zakim, I am IPcaller ←

15:59:33 <Zakim> ok, manu, I now associate you with [IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, manu, I now associate you with [IPcaller] ←

16:00:32 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Scribe problem: the name 'ivan' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ivan: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←

16:00:41 <Zakim> +McCarron

Zakim IRC Bot: +McCarron ←

16:00:47 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←

16:00:49 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←

16:01:15 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Steven: zakim, dial steven-617 ←

16:01:29 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←

16:01:34 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←

16:01:36 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?

Scribe problem: the name 'markbirbeck' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, code? ←

16:02:02 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck ←

16:02:44 <manu> Present+ Shane_McCarron

Unknown Manu_Sporny: Present+ Shane_McCarron ←

16:02:51 <manu> Present+ Ivan_Herman

Unknown Manu_Sporny: Present+ Ivan_Herman ←

16:03:32 <Zakim> +??P36

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P36 ←

16:03:34 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am ?

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, i am ? ←

16:03:42 <manu> Topic: Action Items

1. Action Items

16:03:51 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +markbirbeck; got it ←

16:03:53 <manu> ACTION: Manu to ask somebody to draft errata text, clarifying that prefixes cannot be '_' character [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]

ACTION: Manu to ask somebody to draft errata text, clarifying that prefixes cannot be '_' character [recorded in ACTION-10]">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-10] ←

16:03:55 <manu> -- done

Unknown Manu_Sporny: -- done ←

16:04:20 <manu> ACTION: Mark to author URIs in @about, @rel, @rev, @typeof and @datatype spec text [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]

ACTION: Mark to author URIs in @about, @rel, @rev, @typeof and @datatype spec text [recorded in ACTION-09]">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-09] ←

16:04:24 <manu> -- done

Unknown Manu_Sporny: -- done ←

16:04:40 <manu> Mark: Yes, that's done... finding link now.

Scribe problem: the name 'Mark' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Mark: Yes, that's done... finding link now. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:05:12 <manu> ACTION: Someone let Ivan know what Open Document Format reference to use in the charter [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/19-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]

ACTION: Someone let Ivan know what Open Document Format reference to use in the charter [recorded in ACTION-08]">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/19-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-08] ←

16:05:16 <manu> -- done

Unknown Manu_Sporny: -- done ←

16:05:25 <manu> ACTION: Manu to aggressively push review of test cases via mailing list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]

ACTION: Manu to aggressively push review of test cases via mailing list [recorded in ACTION-08]">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-08] ←

16:05:29 <manu> -- continues

Unknown Manu_Sporny: -- continues ←

16:05:53 <markbirbeck> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Nov/0081.html

Unknown markbirbeck: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Nov/0081.html ←

16:06:01 <manu> ACTION: Manu to try and find other interested parties in RDFa WG. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]

ACTION: Manu to try and find other interested parties in RDFa WG. [recorded in ACTION-08]">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-08] ←

16:06:09 <manu> -- continues

Unknown Manu_Sporny: -- continues ←

16:07:42 <manu> Topic: RDFa WG charter status

2. RDFa WG charter status

16:08:20 <manu> Manu: How is the process going?

Unknown Manu_Sporny: How is the process going? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:08:30 <manu> Ivan: Formally, charter is under review

Scribe problem: the name 'Ivan' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ivan: Formally, charter is under review [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:08:36 <manu> Ivan: Waiting to hear back on comments.

Unknown Ivan: Waiting to hear back on comments. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:08:59 <manu> Ivan: It is based on those reviews that the RDFa WG is formed or not

Unknown Ivan: It is based on those reviews that the RDFa WG is formed or not [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:09:08 <manu> Ivan: I think things are going well

Unknown Ivan: I think things are going well [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:09:34 <manu> Ivan: Want to get official vote request by the end of next week... but it's up to the reviewers to get back to us.

Unknown Ivan: Want to get official vote request by the end of next week... but it's up to the reviewers to get back to us. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:10:22 <manu> Ivan: The charter starts the group on Feb 1st

Unknown Ivan: The charter starts the group on Feb 1st [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:10:28 <manu> Manu: Should we meet in Jan?

Unknown Manu_Sporny: Should we meet in Jan? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:10:54 <manu> Ivan: No reason why we shouldn't meet informally.

Unknown Ivan: No reason why we shouldn't meet informally. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:11:03 <manu> Shane: Actually, XHTML2 continues until we close the work we're doing.

Scribe problem: the name 'Shane' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Shane: Actually, XHTML2 continues until we close the work we're doing. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:11:12 <manu> Ivan: So, we can meet formally in January.

Unknown Ivan: So, we can meet formally in January. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:11:41 <manu> Topic: @vocab discussion

3. @vocab discussion

16:12:20 <manu> Manu: What are thoughts on moving forward on this?

Unknown Manu_Sporny: What are thoughts on moving forward on this? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:12:30 <manu> Manu: Do we want to ask for proposals now?

Unknown Manu_Sporny: Do we want to ask for proposals now? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:12:58 <manu> Mark: Interesting that Toby and Ivan are implementing this stuff straight away.

Unknown Mark: Interesting that Toby and Ivan are implementing this stuff straight away. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:13:23 <manu> Mark: Toby implemented a way of not requiring a colon

Unknown Mark: Toby implemented a way of not requiring a colon [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:14:14 <manu> Mark: That's good, but also comes with downside of solidifying ideas that we may not be the direction we want to go.

Unknown Mark: That's good, but also comes with downside of solidifying ideas that we may not be the direction we want to go. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:15:01 <manu> Mark: The whole @profile issue is still there.

Unknown Mark: The whole @profile issue is still there. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:15:11 <manu> Mark: Maybe we can do content negotiation?

Unknown Mark: Maybe we can do content negotiation? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:15:38 <manu> Mark: Maybe the thing at the end of the URI could be anything? like have an RDFa document or JSON?

Unknown Mark: Maybe the thing at the end of the URI could be anything? like have an RDFa document or JSON? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:15:57 <manu> Mark: We may want to see if we're happy with the general idea of prefix-less CURIE

Unknown Mark: We may want to see if we're happy with the general idea of prefix-less CURIE [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:16:06 <ivan> q+

Unknown ivan: q+ ←

16:16:23 <manu> Mark: Then I think the second step is how to give somebody a list of how to define these tokens externally.

Unknown Mark: Then I think the second step is how to give somebody a list of how to define these tokens externally. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:16:27 <manu> ack ivan

Unknown Manu_Sporny: ack ivan ←

16:16:44 <manu> Ivan: So, just to clarify - next/prev/stylesheet would all be considered "tokens"

Unknown Ivan: So, just to clarify - next/prev/stylesheet would all be considered "tokens" [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:17:19 <manu> Ivan: So, what we are trying to find is how to define those reserved words.

Unknown Ivan: So, what we are trying to find is how to define those reserved words. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:18:50 <manu> Ivan: XHTML is the only one that has these reserved words, SVG doesn't?

Unknown Ivan: XHTML is the only one that has these reserved words, SVG doesn't? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:18:54 <manu> Manu: Not sure that's true

Unknown Manu_Sporny: Not sure that's true [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:19:08 <manu> Steven: Yes, not clear in the SVG Tiny 1.2 spec.

Unknown Steven: Yes, not clear in the SVG Tiny 1.2 spec. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:19:41 <ivan> q+

Unknown ivan: q+ ←

16:20:04 <manu> Manu: We might want to just do some spec text, then?

Unknown Manu_Sporny: We might want to just do some spec text, then? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:20:30 <ivan> q-

Unknown ivan: q- ←

16:20:47 <manu> Mark: Might be good to discuss some other points first?

Unknown Mark: Might be good to discuss some other points first? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:21:15 <ivan> q+

Unknown ivan: q+ ←

16:21:53 <Steven> zakim, mute me

Unknown Steven: zakim, mute me ←

16:21:53 <Zakim> Steven should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Steven should now be muted ←

16:22:21 <manu> Mark: So, we got to a certain point with the discussion with Ben - whether you regard a reserved word as a relative URI or a token

Unknown Mark: So, we got to a certain point with the discussion with Ben - whether you regard a reserved word as a relative URI or a token [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:23:15 <manu> Mark: Both will work, if there is no token defined - it's a relative URI, if a token is defined, we use that.

Unknown Mark: Both will work, if there is no token defined - it's a relative URI, if a token is defined, we use that. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:24:39 <Steven> I think the fact that we have relative URIs and keywords in the same position makes it harder to find a solution

Unknown Steven: I think the fact that we have relative URIs and keywords in the same position makes it harder to find a solution ←

16:26:17 <manu> Mark: With this recent change to allow URIs everywhere, we've got a few more options.

Unknown Mark: With this recent change to allow URIs everywhere, we've got a few more options. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:26:25 <manu> Manu: I'm concerned about intermediate formats.

Unknown Manu_Sporny: I'm concerned about intermediate formats. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:27:34 <manu> Manu: What happens when you have vocab="http://example.org/terms" property="foo" and you can't resolve "http://example.org/terms" ?

Unknown Manu_Sporny: What happens when you have vocab="http://example.org/terms" property="foo" and you can't resolve "http://example.org/terms" ? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:29:12 <manu> Mark: Well, you generate a triple with "http://example.org/terms#foo" and perhaps resolve that in the future.

Unknown Mark: Well, you generate a triple with "http://example.org/terms#foo" and perhaps resolve that in the future. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:30:38 <manu> Mark: Well, Ben mentioned that "foo" would be placed in the default namespace... which we didn't really want.

Unknown Mark: Well, Ben mentioned that "foo" would be placed in the default namespace... which we didn't really want. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:30:46 <manu> Ivan: my problem is a bit more fundamental than that.

Unknown Ivan: my problem is a bit more fundamental than that. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:30:59 <manu> Ivan: I'm not fully convinced that we need to go down that route...

Unknown Ivan: I'm not fully convinced that we need to go down that route... [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:31:18 <manu> Ivan: none of these solutions seem to be simple (for an implementer) - still not convinced that we need to do that.

Unknown Ivan: none of these solutions seem to be simple (for an implementer) - still not convinced that we need to do that. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:31:50 <ShaneM> zakim, mccarron is ShaneM

Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ShaneM: zakim, mccarron is ShaneM ←

16:31:50 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM; got it ←

16:31:58 <markbirbeck> q+

Unknown markbirbeck: q+ ←

16:32:02 <manu> Ivan: When we go to other dialects of SVG - I don't see what the problem we're trying to solve for those other languages are...

Unknown Ivan: When we go to other dialects of SVG - I don't see what the problem we're trying to solve for those other languages are... [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:32:02 <ivan> q-

Unknown ivan: q- ←

16:32:09 <manu> ack shaneM

Unknown Manu_Sporny: ack shaneM ←

16:32:27 <manu> ack markbirbeck

Unknown Manu_Sporny: ack markbirbeck ←

16:32:46 <manu> Mark: The problem is about trying to get Microformats-style simplicity for markup.

Unknown Mark: The problem is about trying to get Microformats-style simplicity for markup. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:32:53 <manu> Manu: Yes

Unknown Manu_Sporny: Yes [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:33:14 <manu> Mark: It could potentially give RDFa the ability to do everything good that Microformats does in a way that is rigorous.

Unknown Mark: It could potentially give RDFa the ability to do everything good that Microformats does in a way that is rigorous. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:33:38 <manu> Mark: The good things about Microformats is that it's easy to understand. Quick to get something up and going.

Unknown Mark: The good things about Microformats is that it's easy to understand. Quick to get something up and going. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:34:11 <manu> Mark: The second thing that is related is that you get people like Google that have one uber-vocabulary.

Unknown Mark: The second thing that is related is that you get people like Google that have one uber-vocabulary. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:34:26 <Steven> q=

Unknown Steven: q= ←

16:34:31 <Steven> Q+

Unknown Steven: Q+ ←

16:34:34 <ivan> q+

Unknown ivan: q+ ←

16:34:53 <manu> Mark: It's the ability to just stick a @profile at the top of the document rather than 12 namespaces, is useful for authors.

Unknown Mark: It's the ability to just stick a @profile at the top of the document rather than 12 namespaces, is useful for authors. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:34:58 <manu> ack Steven

Unknown Manu_Sporny: ack Steven ←

16:35:11 <manu> Steven: i am definitely a big fan of simplicity of authoring.

Unknown Steven: i am definitely a big fan of simplicity of authoring. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:35:38 <manu> q+ a vocal minority don't like prefixes

Unknown Manu_Sporny: q+ a vocal minority don't like prefixes ←

16:36:17 <manu> Steven: There are good proposals for automatic namespaces by Liam et. al

Unknown Steven: There are good proposals for automatic namespaces by Liam et. al [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:36:20 <manu> ack ivan

Unknown Manu_Sporny: ack ivan ←

16:37:07 <manu> Ivan: I agree with Steven on the point that @tokens become less important when we have a mechanism for defining prefixes/tokens.

Unknown Ivan: I agree with Steven on the point that @tokens become less important when we have a mechanism for defining prefixes/tokens. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:37:28 <markbirbeck> q+

Unknown markbirbeck: q+ ←

16:37:29 <manu> Ivan: If we have that, then I think we can forget about this @token issue, except for the XHTML tokens, which are included.

Unknown Ivan: If we have that, then I think we can forget about this @token issue, except for the XHTML tokens, which are included. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:37:31 <manu> q+

Unknown Manu_Sporny: q+ ←

16:37:39 <manu> zakim, IPcaller is manu

Unknown Manu_Sporny: zakim, IPcaller is manu ←

16:37:39 <Zakim> +manu; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +manu; got it ←

16:37:48 <manu> ack markbirbeck

Unknown Manu_Sporny: ack markbirbeck ←

16:37:50 <ShaneM> q+ to speak for being able to define new reserver words

Unknown ShaneM: q+ to speak for being able to define new reserver words ←

16:38:23 <manu> Mark: If there is a URI mapping defined, then using it in an attribute that can take a CURIE, even without a colon, is sufficient.

Unknown Mark: If there is a URI mapping defined, then using it in an attribute that can take a CURIE, even without a colon, is sufficient. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:38:57 <manu> Ivan: if we have a token/keyword without a colon, what do we do with it.

Unknown Ivan: if we have a token/keyword without a colon, what do we do with it. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:38:59 <manu> q-

Unknown Manu_Sporny: q- ←

16:39:05 <manu> ack IPcaller

Unknown Manu_Sporny: ack IPcaller ←

16:39:10 <manu> ack [IPcaller]

Unknown Manu_Sporny: ack [IPcaller] ←

16:39:20 <markbirbeck> @xmlns:dc="http://xyz"

Unknown markbirbeck: @xmlns:dc="http://xyz" ←

16:39:21 <manu> Mark: So, let me give an example...

Unknown Mark: So, let me give an example... [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:39:27 <markbirbeck> dc:creator

Scribe problem: the name 'dc' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown dc: creator [ Scribe Assist by Unknown markbirbeck ] ←

16:39:32 <markbirbeck> dc:

Unknown dc: [ Scribe Assist by Unknown markbirbeck ] ←

16:39:51 <markbirbeck> @xmlns:creator="http://xyz#creator"

Unknown markbirbeck: @xmlns:creator="http://xyz#creator" ←

16:39:53 <manu> q+

Unknown Manu_Sporny: q+ ←

16:39:55 <markbirbeck> creator:

Scribe problem: the name 'creator' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown creator: [ Scribe Assist by Unknown markbirbeck ] ←

16:40:28 <markbirbeck> property="creator"

Unknown markbirbeck: property="creator" ←

16:41:31 <manu> Mark: We can still argue that you don't need @tokens or you do - but this is a very tiny change.

Unknown Mark: We can still argue that you don't need @tokens or you do - but this is a very tiny change. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:41:57 <manu> Ivan: So, I could create a ton of xmlns:xyz for all DC terms.

Unknown Ivan: So, I could create a ton of xmlns:xyz for all DC terms. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:42:18 <manu> Ivan: This make sense only if there is a way to specify those xmlns elsewhere.

Unknown Ivan: This make sense only if there is a way to specify those xmlns elsewhere. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:42:24 <markbirbeck> <html

Unknown markbirbeck: <html ←

16:42:25 <markbirbeck> xmlns:Agent="http://purl.org/dc/terms/Agent"

Scribe problem: the name 'xmlns' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown xmlns: Agent="http://purl.org/dc/terms/Agent" [ Scribe Assist by Unknown markbirbeck ] ←

16:42:25 <markbirbeck> xmlns:Person="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/Person"

Unknown xmlns: Person="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/Person" [ Scribe Assist by Unknown markbirbeck ] ←

16:42:26 <markbirbeck> xmlns:title="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/title"

Unknown xmlns: title="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/title" [ Scribe Assist by Unknown markbirbeck ] ←

16:42:26 <markbirbeck> xmlns:fn="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name"

Unknown xmlns: fn="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name" [ Scribe Assist by Unknown markbirbeck ] ←

16:42:26 <markbirbeck> >

Unknown markbirbeck: > ←

16:42:28 <markbirbeck>   <div

Unknown markbirbeck: <div ←

16:42:29 <markbirbeck>   about="http://www.ivan-herman.net/me"

Unknown markbirbeck: about="http://www.ivan-herman.net/me" ←

16:42:31 <markbirbeck>   typeof="Person Agent"

Unknown markbirbeck: typeof="Person Agent" ←

16:42:33 <markbirbeck>  >

Unknown markbirbeck: > ←

16:42:35 <markbirbeck>     <h1>

Unknown markbirbeck: <h1> ←

16:42:38 <markbirbeck>       <span property="title">Dr</span>

Unknown markbirbeck: <span property="title">Dr</span> ←

16:42:39 <markbirbeck>       <span property="fn">Ivan Herman</span>

Unknown markbirbeck: <span property="fn">Ivan Herman</span> ←

16:42:41 <markbirbeck>     </h1>

Unknown markbirbeck: </h1> ←

16:42:44 <markbirbeck>   </div>

Unknown markbirbeck: </div> ←

16:42:45 <markbirbeck> </html>

Unknown markbirbeck: </html> ←

16:43:12 <manu> Mark: if we go for this small change, it still doesn't matter how we get those URI mappings.

Unknown Mark: if we go for this small change, it still doesn't matter how we get those URI mappings. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:43:24 <manu> ack ShaneM

Unknown Manu_Sporny: ack ShaneM ←

16:43:24 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to speak for being able to define new reserver words

Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to speak for being able to define new reserver words ←

16:43:51 <manu> Shane: I don't have a problem with this @token proposal.

Unknown Shane: I don't have a problem with this @token proposal. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:44:14 <manu> Shane: Without having an external mechanism, it's not terribly useful.

Unknown Shane: Without having an external mechanism, it's not terribly useful. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:44:30 <manu> Shane: In todays spec, we have these things called "reserved words"

Unknown Shane: In todays spec, we have these things called "reserved words" [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:44:38 <manu> Shane: Those only work for @rel/@rev

Unknown Shane: Those only work for @rel/@rev [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:45:01 <manu> Shane: That's fine.

Unknown Shane: That's fine. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:45:24 <manu> Shane: So, we're extending these to all CURIE-aware attributes?

Unknown Shane: So, we're extending these to all CURIE-aware attributes? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:46:08 <manu> Mark: Not necessarily - we have this new mechanism for @property for resolving reserved words/CURIEs.

Unknown Mark: Not necessarily - we have this new mechanism for @property for resolving reserved words/CURIEs. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:46:39 <manu> Shane: So, putting on my DAISY hat, they want to be able to define reserved words.

Unknown Shane: So, putting on my DAISY hat, they want to be able to define reserved words. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:46:51 <manu> Shane: We still need to be able to have a way to change the default collection of reserved words.

Unknown Shane: We still need to be able to have a way to change the default collection of reserved words. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:47:04 <ivan> q+

Unknown ivan: q+ ←

16:47:06 <manu> ack manu

Unknown Manu_Sporny: ack manu ←

16:48:51 <markbirbeck> q+

Unknown markbirbeck: q+ ←

16:49:15 <manu> Manu: We still don't have a solution for defining extended reserved words.

Unknown Manu_Sporny: We still don't have a solution for defining extended reserved words. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:50:06 <ShaneM> aside: what if I have multiple profile references and there are collisions after taking the union of the prefix mappings?  Last takes precedence?

Scribe problem: the name 'aside' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown aside: what if I have multiple profile references and there are collisions after taking the union of the prefix mappings? Last takes precedence? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ShaneM ] ←

16:50:36 <manu> Ivan: Let's say we have a @profile - we could pull @tokens in from an external document.

Unknown Ivan: Let's say we have a @profile - we could pull @tokens in from an external document. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:50:39 <manu> ack markbirbeck

Unknown Manu_Sporny: ack markbirbeck ←

16:50:47 <manu> Mark: yes, agree with Ivan

Unknown Mark: yes, agree with Ivan [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:51:01 <ShaneM> q+ to say that I dont want to rely on these external namespace proposals.  we are too tied to namespaces already!

Unknown ShaneM: q+ to say that I dont want to rely on these external namespace proposals. we are too tied to namespaces already! ←

16:51:13 <ivan> q-

Unknown ivan: q- ←

16:51:42 <manu> Mark: With this minor change, it helps us solve the other Microformats-like-markup problem.

Unknown Mark: With this minor change, it helps us solve the other Microformats-like-markup problem. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

16:52:07 <ShaneM> I want a "prefix import mechanism" not a "namespace import mechanism"

Unknown ShaneM: I want a "prefix import mechanism" not a "namespace import mechanism" ←

16:52:20 <manu> ack ShaneM

Unknown Manu_Sporny: ack ShaneM ←

16:52:20 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to say that I dont want to rely on these external namespace proposals.  we are too tied to namespaces already!

Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to say that I dont want to rely on these external namespace proposals. we are too tied to namespaces already! ←

16:52:33 <manu> q+

Unknown Manu_Sporny: q+ ←

16:52:54 <markbirbeck> q+

Unknown markbirbeck: q+ ←

16:53:16 <manu> ack manu

Unknown Manu_Sporny: ack manu ←

16:57:29 <manu> Topic: "On Hold" Test Cases 142 and 154

4. "On Hold" Test Cases 142 and 154

16:58:31 <manu> ACTION: Mark to generate spec text for @token and @prefix

ACTION: Mark to generate spec text for @token and @prefix ←

16:58:36 <ShaneM> I suddenly grok why @prefix is a bad name

Unknown ShaneM: I suddenly grok why @prefix is a bad name ←

16:59:13 <manu> ACTION: Mark to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents

ACTION: Mark to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents ←

16:59:26 <manu> ACTION: Manu to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents.

ACTION: Manu to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents. ←

16:59:32 <ShaneM> @cmap="token URI"

Unknown ShaneM: @cmap="token URI" ←

16:59:38 <ShaneM> where cmap == curie mapping

Unknown ShaneM: where cmap == curie mapping ←

17:00:01 <manu> http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/test-suite/

Unknown Manu_Sporny: http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/test-suite/ ←

17:00:06 <markbirbeck> q-

Unknown markbirbeck: q- ←

17:02:35 <manu> <p xmlns:xml="http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace" property="xml:test">Test</p>

Unknown Manu_Sporny: <p xmlns:xml="http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace" property="xml:test">Test</p> ←

17:03:16 <manu> Manu: Thoughts?

Unknown Manu_Sporny: Thoughts? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

17:03:37 <manu> Shane: keep it on hold.

Unknown Shane: keep it on hold. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

17:03:58 <manu> Ivan: Maybe we could disallow it in the spec?

Unknown Ivan: Maybe we could disallow it in the spec? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

17:04:46 <manu> Mark: It's an edge case that we don't refer to.

Unknown Mark: It's an edge case that we don't refer to. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

17:05:16 <manu> ACTION: Manu to get in touch with LibXML developers about TC 142.

ACTION: Manu to get in touch with LibXML developers about TC 142. ←

17:05:36 <manu>   <span xmlns:test="http://example.org/error/" property="testŀ:test">Test</span>

Unknown Manu_Sporny: <span xmlns:test="http://example.org/error/" property="testŀ:test">Test</span> ←

17:06:27 <manu> Ivan: So I can only have ASCII characters there?

Unknown Ivan: So I can only have ASCII characters there? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

17:06:31 <manu> Shane: Yes.

Unknown Shane: Yes. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

17:10:10 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←

17:10:11 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←

17:10:13 <Zakim> -markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: -markbirbeck ←

17:10:15 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←

17:10:39 <manu> Manu: Ok, so this is an invalid XHTML test, but we will be revisiting this issue for HTML4 and HTML5

Unknown Manu_Sporny: Ok, so this is an invalid XHTML test, but we will be revisiting this issue for HTML4 and HTML5 [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Manu_Sporny ] ←

17:10:50 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes

Unknown Manu_Sporny: rrsagent, draft minutes ←

17:10:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html manu

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html manu ←

17:11:19 <Zakim> -manu

Zakim IRC Bot: -manu ←

17:11:21 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended ←

17:11:23 <Zakim> Attendees were Ivan, Steven, markbirbeck, ShaneM, manu

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Ivan, Steven, markbirbeck, ShaneM, manu ←

17:13:13 <manu> Present+ Steven_Pemberton

Unknown Manu_Sporny: Present+ Steven_Pemberton ←

17:13:20 <manu> Regrets: Ben_Adida

Scribe problem: the name 'Ben_Adida' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

17:20:56 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes

(No events recorded for 7 minutes)

Unknown Manu_Sporny: rrsagent, draft minutes ←

17:20:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html manu

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html manu ←

17:26:16 <manu> zakim, bye

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Unknown Manu_Sporny: zakim, bye ←

17:26:20 <manu> rrsagent, bye

Unknown Manu_Sporny: rrsagent, bye ←

17:26:20 <RRSAgent> I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-actions.rdf : ←

17:26:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu to ask somebody to draft errata text, clarifying that prefixes cannot be '_' character [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action10] [1]

ACTION: Manu to ask somebody to draft errata text, clarifying that prefixes cannot be '_' character [recorded in ACTION-10]">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-10] [1] ←

17:26:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-irc#T16-03-53

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-irc#T16-03-53 ←

17:26:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark to author URIs in @about, @rel, @rev, @typeof and @datatype spec text [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] [2]

ACTION: Mark to author URIs in @about, @rel, @rev, @typeof and @datatype spec text [recorded in ACTION-09]">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-09] [2] ←

17:26:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-irc#T16-04-20

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-irc#T16-04-20 ←

17:26:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Someone let Ivan know what Open Document Format reference to use in the charter [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/19-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [3]

ACTION: Someone let Ivan know what Open Document Format reference to use in the charter [recorded in ACTION-08]">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/19-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-08] [3] ←

17:26:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-irc#T16-05-12

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-irc#T16-05-12 ←

17:26:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu to aggressively push review of test cases via mailing list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [4]

ACTION: Manu to aggressively push review of test cases via mailing list [recorded in ACTION-08]">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-08] [4] ←

17:26:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-irc#T16-05-25

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-irc#T16-05-25 ←

17:26:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu to try and find other interested parties in RDFa WG. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [5]

ACTION: Manu to try and find other interested parties in RDFa WG. [recorded in ACTION-08]">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-08] [5] ←

17:26:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-irc#T16-06-01

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-irc#T16-06-01 ←

17:26:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark to generate spec text for @token and @prefix [6]

ACTION: Mark to generate spec text for @token and @prefix [6] ←

17:26:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-irc#T16-58-31

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-irc#T16-58-31 ←

17:26:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents [7]

ACTION: Mark to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents [7] ←

17:26:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-irc#T16-59-13

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-irc#T16-59-13 ←

17:26:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents. [8]

ACTION: Manu to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents. [8] ←

17:26:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-irc#T16-59-26

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-irc#T16-59-26 ←

17:26:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu to get in touch with LibXML developers about TC 142. [9]

ACTION: Manu to get in touch with LibXML developers about TC 142. [9] ←

17:26:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-irc#T17-05-16

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-irc#T17-05-16 ←

Formatted by CommonScribe