edit

RDF-in-XHTML Task Force

Minutes of 14 February 2008

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Feb/0055.html
Seen
Unknown Ralph, Unknown ShaneM, Unknown Steven, Unknown markbirbeck, Unknown msporny
Regrets
Unknown Ben, Unknown Simone
Chair
Unknown Manu
Scribe
Unknown Ralph
Previous Meeting
http://www.w3.org/2008/02/07-rdfa-minutes.html
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. link to test harness will appear in Status section link
  2. RDFa will state that whitespace is preserved and note that some implementations might not behave this way link
  3. the Task Force sees no need to have longer than 4 weeks Last Call period link
Topics

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15:51:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-rdfa-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-rdfa-irc

15:51:51 <Ralph> Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML Task Force
15:51:57 <Ralph> rrsagent, please make record public

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Unknown Ralph: rrsagent, please make record public

15:52:07 <Ralph> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Feb/0055.html
15:52:21 <Ralph> Chair: Manu

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15:52:40 <Ralph> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/02/07-rdfa-minutes.html
15:52:54 <Ralph> Regrets: Ben, Simone

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15:53:20 <Steven> (Steven also sent his regrets for last week)

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Unknown Steven: (Steven also sent his regrets for last week)

15:53:29 <Steven> (Not mentioned in minutes)

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Unknown Steven: (Not mentioned in minutes)

15:53:44 <Ralph> Regrets+ Michael

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Unknown Ralph: Regrets+ Michael

15:53:55 <Ralph> (I'll update last week's minutes, Steven)

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Unknown Ralph: (I'll update last week's minutes, Steven)

15:54:07 <Steven> ach, not a real prob

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Unknown Steven: ach, not a real prob

15:55:09 <Steven> :-)

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Unknown Steven: :-)

15:55:20 <Steven> Probable regrets for next week too: returning from a FtF

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Unknown Steven: Probable regrets for next week too: returning from a FtF

15:56:21 <Ralph> Scribe: Ralph

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(Scribe set to Unknown Ralph)

15:56:24 <msporny> thanks Ralph :)

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Unknown msporny: thanks Ralph :)

15:57:20 <msporny> does that mean you dreamed about it?

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Unknown msporny: does that mean you dreamed about it?

15:57:32 <Ralph> nightmare

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nightmare

15:57:35 <msporny> haha :)

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Unknown msporny: haha :)

15:58:05 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started

15:58:08 <Zakim> +Ralph

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ralph

15:58:12 <Zakim> +??P3

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3

15:58:20 <msporny> zakim, I am ??P3

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Unknown msporny: zakim, I am ??P3

15:58:20 <Zakim> +msporny; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +msporny; got it

15:58:20 <Ralph> zakim, ??p3 is Manu

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zakim, ??p3 is Manu

15:58:21 <Zakim> I already had ??P3 as msporny, Ralph

Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P3 as msporny, Ralph

16:00:37 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617

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Unknown Steven: zakim, dial steven-617

16:00:37 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made

16:00:38 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven

16:02:50 <Ralph> Steven: coordination with Hypertext CG?

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Unknown Steven: coordination with Hypertext CG?

16:03:24 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?

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Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, code?

16:03:28 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

16:03:43 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM

16:04:10 <Zakim> + +0208761aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +0208761aaaa

16:04:17 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am aaaa

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Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, i am aaaa

16:04:17 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +markbirbeck; got it

16:04:54 <Ralph> Topic: Action Review

1. Action Review

16:05:03 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben to email mailing list to think about last substantive issue on tracker: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/6 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]

ACTION: Ben to email mailing list to think about last substantive issue on tracker: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/6 [recorded in ACTION-07]">http://www.w3.org/2008/02/07-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-07]

16:05:05 <Ralph> -- continues

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-- continues

16:05:11 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]

ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C [recorded in ACTION-01]">http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-01]

16:05:13 <Ralph> -- continues

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-- continues

16:05:18 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-06]

16:05:20 <Ralph> -- continues

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-- continues

16:05:27 <Ralph> ACTION: Manu write 2 new tests for img[@src] as subject [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]

ACTION: Manu write 2 new tests for img[@src] as subject [recorded in ACTION-08]">http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-08]

16:05:28 <Ralph> -- continues

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-- continues

16:05:34 <Ralph> ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-06]

16:05:35 <Ralph> -- continues

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-- continues

16:05:52 <Ralph> Topic: Getting Syntax Document to Last Call

2. Getting Syntax Document to Last Call

16:06:06 <msporny> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Feb/0054.html

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Unknown msporny: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Feb/0054.html

16:06:10 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Feb/0054.html Manu's status

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-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Feb/0054.html Manu's checklist

16:06:26 <Ralph> s/status/checklist/
16:06:57 <Ralph> Mark: my changes to the Syntax document are still in progress

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Unknown Mark: my changes to the Syntax document are still in progress

16:07:15 <Ralph> ... Shane has made the changes he is confident of

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... Shane has made the changes he is confident of

16:07:35 <Ralph> ... my plan is to insure completion tomorrow

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... my plan is to insure completion tomorrow

16:08:14 <Ralph> Shane: there's a diff-marked version, so change review should be quick

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Unknown Shane: there's a diff-marked version, so change review should be quick

16:09:16 <Ralph> Ralph: responding to the comments with pointers to sections in the diff-marked version should suffice

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Unknown Ralph: responding to the comments with pointers to sections in the diff-marked version should suffice

16:09:33 <Ralph> Shane: I'll publish the new editors' draft when ready

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Unknown Shane: I'll publish the new editors' draft when ready

16:10:58 <Ralph> ... and will send the response to Diego and Ed based on Manu's draft when the new draft is up

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... and will send the response to Diego and Ed based on Manu's draft when the new draft is up

16:11:49 <Ralph> ACTION: Shane send response to Diego and Ed review comments when new editors' draft is up

ACTION: Shane send response to Diego and Ed review comments when new editors' draft is up

16:20:52 <Ralph> Mark: I've skimmed Manu's draft response to the comments and don't see problems but until I finish the edits I won't know for sure

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(No events recorded for 9 minutes)

Unknown Mark: I've skimmed Manu's draft response to the comments and don't see problems but until I finish the edits I won't know for sure

16:21:06 <Ralph> Manu: what about Ed's comment about reference implementation?

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Unknown Manu: what about Ed's comment about reference implementation?

16:21:13 <Ralph> ... I proposed to cite the test suite

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... I proposed to cite the test suite

16:21:28 <Ralph> Ralph: at most the reference would be an informative one

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Unknown Ralph: at most the reference would be an informative one

16:21:43 <Ralph> Steven: citing the test suite in the Status section would suffice

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Unknown Steven: citing the test suite in the Status section would suffice

16:22:01 <Ralph> ... also, there's no such thing in W3C as a "reference implementation"

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... also, there's no such thing in W3C as a "reference implementation"

16:22:15 <Ralph> ... our test suite is not a conformance test

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... our test suite is not a conformance test

16:24:22 <msporny> http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/

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Unknown msporny: http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/

16:26:57 <Ralph> RESOLVED: link to test harness will appear in Status section

RESOLVED: link to test harness will appear in Status section

16:27:41 <Ralph> Shane: there are 3 open issues in the Syntax document

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Unknown Shane: there are 3 open issues in the Syntax document

16:28:17 <Ralph> Manu: Ivan's issue about "useless" bnodes being generated

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Unknown Manu: Ivan's issue about "useless" bnodes being generated

16:28:27 <Ralph> Mark: I plan to remove that

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Unknown Mark: I plan to remove that

16:28:40 <Ralph> ... I don't think we should generate useless statements

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... I don't think we should generate useless statements

16:28:58 <Ralph> ... the situation is when the object is a bnode and there are no further references

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... the situation is when the object is a bnode and there are no further references

16:29:05 <Ralph> Manu: this implies a change to the processing rules

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Unknown Manu: this implies a change to the processing rules

16:29:10 <Ralph> Mark: yes, but in a minor way

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Unknown Mark: yes, but in a minor way

16:29:23 <Ralph> Manu: not so minor for stream-based processors; requires look-ahead

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Unknown Manu: not so minor for stream-based processors; requires look-ahead

16:29:50 <Ralph> Mark: use recursion instead; keep some state that says whether to use the value you already have

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Unknown Mark: use recursion instead; keep some state that says whether to use the value you already have

16:30:07 <Ralph> ... I will look at adding this and mail a proposal

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... I will look at adding this and mail a proposal

16:30:22 <Ralph> ... could leave the spec open-ended; leave it up to the implementation

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... could leave the spec open-ended; leave it up to the implementation

16:30:42 <Ralph> ... the extra triples serve no purpose but it's easier to leave them in the algorithm

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... the extra triples serve no purpose but it's easier to leave them in the algorithm

16:30:53 <Ralph> ... implementations should not be penalized for dropping them

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... implementations should not be penalized for dropping them

16:31:00 <Ralph> Shane: another issue about whitespace normalization

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Unknown Shane: another issue about whitespace normalization

16:31:09 <Ralph> ... we currently refer to CSS2 for the algorithm

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... we currently refer to CSS2 for the algorithm

16:31:21 <Ralph> ... I don't remember where the current text came from

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... I don't remember where the current text came from

16:31:29 <Ralph> Steven: I don't think we should collapse whitespace at all

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Unknown Steven: I don't think we should collapse whitespace at all

16:31:34 <Ralph> ... the CSS rules are about presentation

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... the CSS rules are about presentation

16:31:51 <Ralph> ... I think we should preserve whitespace in the triples because we don't know what it is intended to represent

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... I think we should preserve whitespace in the triples because we don't know what it is intended to represent

16:32:03 <Ralph> Manu: there are quite a few tests that exercise this

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Unknown Manu: there are quite a few tests that exercise this

16:32:31 <Ralph> ... some of the tests do require that whitespace be normalized

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... some of the tests do require that whitespace be normalized

16:33:31 <Ralph> Ralph: Ben has had some strong input on the whitespace issue

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Unknown Ralph: Ben has had some strong input on the whitespace issue

16:33:56 <msporny> http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/

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Unknown msporny: http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/

16:34:11 <Ralph> ... and in RDF/XML people have adopted usage styles that assume leading and trailing whitespace will be elided

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... and in RDF/XML people have adopted usage styles that assume leading and trailing whitespace will be elided

16:34:33 <Ralph> Steven: that's fine -- that's what I call XML normalization

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Unknown Steven: that's fine -- that's what I call XML normalization

16:34:42 <Ralph> ... but the CSS rules have to do with presentation

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... but the CSS rules have to do with presentation

16:35:00 <Ralph> Shane: Ben had done some experiments on deployed browsers

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Unknown Shane: Ben had done some experiments on deployed browsers

16:35:15 <Ralph> Manu: there's no such thing as preserving whitespace in MSIE's DOM

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Unknown Manu: there's no such thing as preserving whitespace in MSIE's DOM

16:35:23 <Ralph> ... MSIE always returns normalized whitespace

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... MSIE always returns normalized whitespace

16:35:34 <Ralph> ... and I thought we'd resolved to leave it to the parser

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... and I thought we'd resolved to leave it to the parser

16:35:40 <Ralph> Mark: how can we ensure consistency?

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Unknown Mark: how can we ensure consistency?

16:36:02 <Ralph> Shane: we'll end up with random triples

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Unknown Shane: we'll end up with random triples

16:36:10 <Ralph> Mark: the test suite won't be able to determine

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Unknown Mark: the test suite won't be able to determine

16:36:21 <Ralph> ... does SPARQL have a trim() function?

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... does SPARQL have a trim() function?

16:37:12 <Ralph> Manu: do the whitespace rules apply only to plain literals?

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Unknown Manu: do the whitespace rules apply only to plain literals?

16:37:20 <Ralph> Mark: they'll need to apply to XMLliterals as well

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Unknown Mark: they'll need to apply to XMLliterals as well

16:37:42 <Ralph> Manu: my implementation leaves XMLliterals as-is, only does whitespace normalization on plain literals

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Unknown Manu: my implementation leaves XMLliterals as-is, only does whitespace normalization on plain literals

16:37:58 <Ralph> ... and we've written the tests so there is no whitespace

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... and we've written the tests so there is no whitespace

16:38:18 <Ralph> ... leading or trailing

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... leading or trailing

16:38:28 <Ralph> ... and embedded whitespace is just a single space char

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... and embedded whitespace is just a single space char

16:38:46 <Steven> q+

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Unknown Steven: q+

16:39:30 <Ralph> Mark: if you have 10 lines of text you'd often write <span>...</span> with newlines and lots of spaces

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Unknown Mark: if you have 10 lines of text you'd often write <span>...</span> with newlines and lots of spaces

16:39:36 <Ralph> Steven: see test 29

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Unknown Steven: see test 29

16:40:24 <Steven> q-

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Unknown Steven: q-

16:41:12 <Ralph> Mark: I thought we'd decided to write the test as if the XPath normalization would be done

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Unknown Mark: I thought we'd decided to write the test as if the XPath normalization would be done

16:41:48 <Steven> What about <pre property="my:poem">

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Unknown Steven: What about <pre property="my:poem">

16:41:55 <Ralph> ... the definition says something like "trim all leading and trailing whitespace and compress internal whitespace to a single space"

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... the definition says something like "trim all leading and trailing whitespace and compress internal whitespace to a single space"

16:42:02 <Ralph> Steven: do newlines count?

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Unknown Steven: do newlines count?

16:42:07 <Ralph> Mark: I don't recall

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Unknown Mark: I don't recall

16:42:21 <Ralph> ... but I'm proposing to do whatever that function does

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... but I'm proposing to do whatever that function does

16:42:29 <Ralph> Shane: normalize-space(), I believe

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Unknown Shane: normalize-space(), I believe

16:43:30 <ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath#function-normalize-space

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Unknown ShaneM: http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath#function-normalize-space

16:43:43 <Ralph> Steven: I'm a little dubious about removing internal whitespace

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Unknown Steven: I'm a little dubious about removing internal whitespace

16:43:54 <Ralph> Mark: but we have MSIE that does normalize whitespace

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Unknown Mark: but we have MSIE that does normalize whitespace

16:43:58 <Ralph> ... this forces our hand

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... this forces our hand

16:44:21 <Ralph> ... so the only way we could deal with MSIE is to put normalization into our spec

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... so the only way we could deal with MSIE is to put normalization into our spec

16:44:24 <Ralph> Shane: agree

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Unknown Shane: agree

16:44:32 <Ralph> Steven: that could be a bug in MSIE

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Unknown Steven: that could be a bug in MSIE

16:44:58 <Ralph> Mark: the alternative is to leave it undefined and draw attention to implementors to trim space in the SPARQL query

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Unknown Mark: the alternative is to leave it undefined and draw attention to implementors to trim space in the SPARQL query

16:46:27 <Ralph> Ralph: I really expect that the majority of RDF use cases will be happy with whitespace normalization

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Unknown Ralph: I really expect that the majority of RDF use cases will be happy with whitespace normalization

16:46:39 <Ralph> Steven: what if the internal whitespace is meaningful?

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Unknown Steven: what if the internal whitespace is meaningful?

16:46:51 <Ralph> Shane: there's an XML Schema datatype that says 'preserve my whitespace'

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Unknown Shane: there's an XML Schema datatype that says 'preserve my whitespace'

16:46:58 <Ralph> Steven: will RDFa acknowledge this datatype?

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Unknown Steven: will RDFa acknowledge this datatype?

16:47:09 <Ralph> Mark: XML rules itself does whitespace processing

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Unknown Mark: XML rules itself does whitespace processing

16:47:37 <Ralph> Steven: root XML element can state 'preserve'

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Unknown Steven: root XML element can state 'preserve'

16:47:59 <Ralph> ... I do acknowledge that there are few places where multiple embedded whitespace is meaningful

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... I do acknowledge that there are few places where multiple embedded whitespace is meaningful

16:48:48 <Ralph> ... but I'd consider it a serious problem if there is no way to deliberately include multiple spaces

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... but I'd consider it a serious problem if there is no way to deliberately include multiple spaces

16:49:20 <Ralph> Manu: we could add a datatype that says to preserve whitespace

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Unknown Manu: we could add a datatype that says to preserve whitespace

16:49:44 <Ralph> Mark: that won't help; we have to either force normalization into the language, which gets us to the lowest common denominator

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Unknown Mark: that won't help; we have to either force normalization into the language, which gets us to the lowest common denominator

16:50:21 <Ralph> ... or we leave it undefined and therefore users must be careful in their SPARQL queries

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... or we leave it undefined and therefore users must be careful in their SPARQL queries

16:51:05 <Ralph> Manu: we have to resolve this or we don't have a Last Call document

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Unknown Manu: we have to resolve this or we don't have a Last Call document

16:53:13 <Ralph> Ralph: I'd propose that we resolve to include normalization and explicitly note the resulting restriction in the Last Call document, asking for objectors to cite specific use cases

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Unknown Ralph: I'd propose that we resolve to include normalization and explicitly note the resulting restriction in the Last Call document, asking for objectors to cite specific use cases

16:53:25 <Ralph> Mark: attribute values are not normalized

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Unknown Mark: attribute values are not normalized

16:53:38 <Ralph> ... and attribute values can contain newlines

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... and attribute values can contain newlines

16:54:23 <Ralph> Shane: the value of @content is a plain literal, which we're normalizing

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Unknown Shane: the value of @content is a plain literal, which we're normalizing

16:55:09 <Ralph> Mark: MSIE with element content is the only situation where we have a problem

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Unknown Mark: MSIE with element content is the only situation where we have a problem

16:55:28 <Ralph> ... it's feeling more like a hack to me to specify normalization everywhere

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... it's feeling more like a hack to me to specify normalization everywhere

16:55:46 <Ralph> ... but I also don't like a solution that treats attribute values differently from element content

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... but I also don't like a solution that treats attribute values differently from element content

16:56:27 <Ralph> Manu: if people format their XML so that the markup is readable, will they be upset if the resulting value is not normalized?

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Unknown Manu: if people format their XML so that the markup is readable, will they be upset if the resulting value is not normalized?

16:56:29 <Steven> <pre about "#me" property="my:address>21 Sandridge Road

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Unknown Steven: <pre about "#me" property="my:address>21 Sandridge Road

16:56:38 <Steven> St. Albans, Herts

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Unknown Steven: St. Albans, Herts

16:56:40 <Ralph> Mark: shouldn't this be up to the implmeentation to decide how the value is to be used?

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Unknown Mark: shouldn't this be up to the implmeentation to decide how the value is to be used?

16:56:43 <Steven> UK</pre>

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Unknown Steven: UK</pre>

16:57:03 <Ralph> ... we're building on top of XML and XHTML

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... we're building on top of XML and XHTML

16:57:14 <Ralph> ... the XML DOM does not do your normalization for you

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... the XML DOM does not do your normalization for you

16:57:31 <Ralph> ... an implementor using this data has to normalize explicitly

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... an implementor using this data has to normalize explicitly

17:01:16 <Ralph> Ralph: we could remove normalization from our spec and say it's the application's responsibility to normalize

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Unknown Ralph: we could remove normalization from our spec and say it's the application's responsibility to normalize

17:02:59 <Ralph> Manu: then we'd have to change all the test cases to be sure not to have multiple whitespace

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Unknown Manu: then we'd have to change all the test cases to be sure not to have multiple whitespace

17:03:04 <Ralph> Shane: we could say nothing

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Unknown Shane: we could say nothing

17:03:21 <Ralph> Mark: we're building on XML, which uses preserve

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Unknown Mark: we're building on XML, which uses preserve

17:03:39 <Ralph> ... so point out that not all implementations preserve whitespace

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... so point out that not all implementations preserve whitespace

17:04:20 <Ralph> Steven: I can support this

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Unknown Steven: I support this

17:04:51 <Steven> s/can//
17:05:04 <Ralph> RESOLVED: RDFa will state that whitespace is preserved and note that some implementations might not behave this way

RESOLVED: RDFa will state that whitespace is preserved and note that some implementations might not behave this way

17:05:24 <Ralph> Shane: next issue is difference between vocab URI and profile URI

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Unknown Shane: next issue is difference between vocab URI and profile URI

17:05:34 <Ralph> Manu: any harm in making them identical?

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Unknown Manu: any harm in making them identical?

17:06:12 <Ralph> Mark: conceptually there is no profile

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Unknown Mark: conceptually there is no profile

17:06:21 <msporny> thanks for all the input Steven :)

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Unknown msporny: thanks for all the input Steven :)

17:06:27 <Steven> :-)

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Unknown Steven: :-)

17:06:27 <Ralph> ... @profile is supposed to indicate how to interpret @name and @rel in meta and link

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... @profile is supposed to indicate how to interpret @name and @rel in meta and link

17:06:35 <Zakim> -Steven

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven

17:06:42 <Ralph> ... we're creating a brand new language which is internally consistent

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... we're creating a brand new language which is internally consistent

17:06:52 <Ralph> ... the @profile is used as a flag to indicate the presence of RDFa

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... the @profile is used as a flag to indicate the presence of RDFa

17:07:08 <Ralph> ... could just as easily add an attribute to the root element

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... could just as easily add an attribute to the root element

17:07:43 <Ralph> Ralph: so do you object to the way GRDDL uses @profile?

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Unknown Ralph: so do you object to the way GRDDL uses @profile?

17:07:57 <Ralph> Mark: no, GRDDL wires itself into someone else's use of @profile

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Unknown Mark: no, GRDDL wires itself into someone else's use of @profile

17:08:21 <Ralph> ... GRDDL hooks itself in behind the scenes

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... GRDDL hooks itself in behind the scenes

17:09:34 <Ralph> ... it's _only_ legitimate to use @profile to declare new @name and @rel values

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... it's _only_ legitimate to use @profile to declare new @name and @rel values

17:10:06 <Ralph> ... so we come at it from another direction

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... so we come at it from another direction

17:10:19 <Ralph> ... provide a URI for extensions to the HTML vocabulary

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... provide a URI for extensions to the HTML vocabulary

17:10:26 <Ralph> ... use our vocab URI for that

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... use our vocab URI for that

17:10:40 <Ralph> ... this is a legitmate @rel extension, so anyone could use this

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... this is a legitmate @rel extension, so anyone could use this

17:10:53 <Ralph> ... so @profile='vocab URI' is legitmate

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... so @profile='vocab URI' is legitmate

17:11:45 <Ralph> Shane: indpendently, having 2 reserved URIs that mean "RDFa [here]" is silly

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Unknown Shane: indpendently, having 2 reserved URIs that mean "RDFa [here]" is silly

17:11:56 <Ralph> ... I think there should only be one and it should be the vocab

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... I think there should only be one and it should be the vocab

17:12:11 <Ralph> Ralph: I'm ok with that

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Unknown Ralph: I'm ok with that

17:12:24 <Ralph> ... and it means that all the existing documents out there are not claiming to have RDFa in them

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... and it means that all the existing documents out there are not claiming to have RDFa in them

17:14:03 <Ralph> Mark: using the vocab URI doesn't harm GRDDL usage

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Unknown Mark: using the vocab URI doesn't harm GRDDL usage

17:14:14 <Ralph> Ralph: [looks at Ben's home page]

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Unknown Ralph: [looks at Ben's home page]

17:14:28 <Ralph> ... Ben uses the xhtml+rdfa DTD

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... Ben uses the xhtml+rdfa DTD

17:14:49 <Ralph> Shane: also, please remove from the document the green box that says "Ivan raised this"

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Unknown Shane: also, please remove from the document the green box that says "Ivan raised this"

17:15:29 <Ralph> ... about unnecessary triples

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... about unnecessary triples

17:17:09 <Ralph> Ralph: what about Last Call duration?

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Unknown Ralph: what about Last Call duration?

17:17:16 <Ralph> Shane: 6 weeks seems a long time

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Unknown Shane: 6 weeks seems a long time

17:19:51 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2008Feb/0048.html "RDFa Last Call period; consider TAG review?" [Ralph 2008-02-14]

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-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2008Feb/0048.html "RDFa Last Call period; consider TAG review?" [Ralph 2008-02-14]

17:20:21 <Ralph> Mark: the fact of existing implementations should help people be confortable

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Unknown Mark: the fact of existing implementations should help people be confortable

17:30:22 <Ralph> Manu: I'm fine with either 4 weeks or 6 weeks

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(No events recorded for 10 minutes)

Unknown Manu: I'm fine with either 4 weeks or 6 weeks

17:32:13 <Ralph> Mark: I'd prefer a shorter period

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Unknown Mark: I'd prefer a shorter period

17:32:25 <Ralph> Shane: 6 weeks seems long to me

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Unknown Shane: 6 weeks seems long to me

17:32:52 <msporny> nice... very tasteful, Shane :)

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Unknown msporny: nice... very tasteful, Shane :)

17:35:08 <Zakim> -ShaneM

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Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM

17:35:54 <Ralph> RESOLVED: the Task Force sees no need to have longer than 4 weeks Last Call period

RESOLVED: the Task Force sees no need to have longer than 4 weeks Last Call period

17:36:59 <Zakim> -markbirbeck

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Zakim IRC Bot: -markbirbeck

17:39:32 <Zakim> -Ralph

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Ralph

17:39:34 <Zakim> -msporny

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Zakim IRC Bot: -msporny

17:39:35 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended

17:39:36 <Zakim> Attendees were Ralph, msporny, Steven, ShaneM, +0208761aaaa, markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Ralph, msporny, Steven, ShaneM, +0208761aaaa, markbirbeck

17:39:38 <Ralph> zakim, bye

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zakim, bye

17:39:42 <Ralph> rrsagent, please draft minutes

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rrsagent, please draft minutes

17:39:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph

17:40:25 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye

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rrsagent, bye

17:40:25 <RRSAgent> I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-rdfa-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-rdfa-actions.rdf :

17:40:25 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to email mailing list to think about last substantive issue on tracker: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/6 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] [1]

ACTION: Ben to email mailing list to think about last substantive issue on tracker: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/6 [recorded in ACTION-07]">http://www.w3.org/2008/02/07-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-07] [1]

17:40:25 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-rdfa-irc#T16-05-03

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-rdfa-irc#T16-05-03

17:40:25 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01] [2]

ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C [recorded in ACTION-01]">http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-01] [2]

17:40:25 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-rdfa-irc#T16-05-11

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-rdfa-irc#T16-05-11

17:40:25 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [3]

ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-06] [3]

17:40:25 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-rdfa-irc#T16-05-18

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-rdfa-irc#T16-05-18

17:40:25 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu write 2 new tests for img[@src] as subject [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [4]

ACTION: Manu write 2 new tests for img[@src] as subject [recorded in ACTION-08]">http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-08] [4]

17:40:25 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-rdfa-irc#T16-05-27

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-rdfa-irc#T16-05-27

17:40:25 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [5]

ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-06] [5]

17:40:25 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-rdfa-irc#T16-05-34

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-rdfa-irc#T16-05-34

17:40:25 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane send response to Diego and Ed review comments when new editors' draft is up [6]

ACTION: Shane send response to Diego and Ed review comments when new editors' draft is up [6]

17:40:25 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-rdfa-irc#T16-11-49

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-rdfa-irc#T16-11-49



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