edit

RDFa Task Force

Minutes of 26 October 2007

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Oct/0235.html
Seen
Unknown Ben_Adida, Unknown Ralph, Unknown ShaneM, Unknown Shane, Unknown Simone, Unknown Steven, Unknown markbirbeck, Unknown msporny
Regrets
Unknown Michael
Chair
Unknown Mark
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics

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13:57:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/10/26-rdfa-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/10/26-rdfa-irc

13:57:52 <Ralph> zakim, this will be rdfa

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ralph: zakim, this will be rdfa

13:57:52 <Zakim> ok, Ralph; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Ralph; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

13:58:49 <Ralph> Meeting: RDFa Task Force
13:58:55 <Ralph> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Oct/0235.html
13:59:14 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2007/10/18-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2007-10-18

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Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ralph: -> http://www.w3.org/2007/10/18-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2007-10-18

13:59:24 <Ralph> rrsagent, please make record public

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ralph: rrsagent, please make record public

13:59:52 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)10:00AM has now started

13:59:59 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ben_Adida

14:00:11 <Zakim> +Ralph

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ralph

14:02:17 <Zakim> +??P19

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P19

14:02:23 <msporny> zakim, I am p19

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Unknown msporny: zakim, I am p19

14:02:23 <Zakim> sorry, msporny, I do not see a party named 'p19'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, msporny, I do not see a party named 'p19'

14:02:26 <msporny> zakim, I am ??p19

Scribe problem: the name 'msporny' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

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Unknown msporny: zakim, I am ??p19

14:02:26 <Zakim> +msporny; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +msporny; got it

14:02:49 <ShaneM>  zakim, what is the code

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Unknown ShaneM: zakim, what is the code

14:02:49 <Zakim> I don't understand 'what is the code', ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'what is the code', ShaneM

14:03:05 <Ralph> zakim, what is the code?

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Unknown Ralph: zakim, what is the code?

14:03:05 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Ralph

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Ralph

14:03:43 <Ralph> Regrets: Michael

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14:03:50 <Zakim> + +1.763.767.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.763.767.aaaa

14:04:01 <ShaneM>  zakim, aaaa is Steven

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Unknown ShaneM: zakim, aaaa is Steven

14:04:01 <Zakim> +Steven; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven; got it

14:04:04 <ShaneM>  ooops

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Unknown ShaneM: ooops

14:04:08 <ShaneM>  zakim, aaa is ShaneM

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Unknown ShaneM: zakim, aaa is ShaneM

14:04:08 <Zakim> sorry, ShaneM, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, ShaneM, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'

14:04:17 <Ralph> zakim, steven is really Shane

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Unknown Ralph: zakim, steven is really Shane

14:04:17 <Zakim> +Shane; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Shane; got it

14:04:35 <Ralph> Regrets+ Steven

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Unknown Ralph: Regrets+ Steven

14:05:11 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben enter Ivan's concerns in  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Oct/0173.html  as issues in tracker [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]

ACTION: Ben enter Ivan's concerns in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Oct/0173.html as issues in tracker [recorded in ACTION-08]">http://www.w3.org/2007/10/18-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-08]

14:05:15 <Ralph> -- continues

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Unknown Ralph: -- continues

14:05:43 <Ralph> ACTION: Michael and Manu investigate with Ivan the implementation of the test case validator proposal on w3.org [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]

ACTION: Michael and Manu investigate with Ivan the implementation of the test case validator proposal on w3.org [recorded in ACTION-07]">http://www.w3.org/2007/10/18-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-07]

14:05:47 <Ralph> -- in progress

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Unknown Ralph: -- in progress

14:05:54 <Ralph> Manu: test harness and validator pretty much done

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Unknown Manu: test harness and validator pretty much done [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:06:13 <Ralph> ... only item left to talk with Ivan about is where to host

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Unknown Ralph: ... only item left to talk with Ivan about is where to host

14:06:22 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-06]

14:06:25 <Ralph> -- continues

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Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ralph: -- continues

14:06:34 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben to set up a proper scribe schedule [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]

ACTION: Ben to set up a proper scribe schedule [recorded in ACTION-01]">http://www.w3.org/2007/10/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-01]

14:06:36 <Ralph> -- continues

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

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Unknown Ralph: -- continues

14:06:43 <Ralph> ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-06]

14:06:45 <Ralph> -- continues

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Unknown Ralph: -- continues

14:07:39 <markbirbeck> Had a call, I'm afraid. Coming now.

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Unknown markbirbeck: Had a call, I'm afraid. Coming now.

14:07:53 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?

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Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, code?

14:07:53 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

14:07:59 <Ralph> Ralph: I was asked to join a SWEO face-to-face on Wednesday to talk about RDFa outreach

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Unknown Ralph: I was asked to join a SWEO face-to-face on Wednesday to talk about RDFa outreach [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:08:40 <Zakim> +??P21

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21

14:08:49 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am ?

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Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, i am ?

14:08:49 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +markbirbeck; got it

14:08:57 <Ralph> ... I pointed out that Michael has this action

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Unknown Ralph: ... I pointed out that Michael has this action

14:09:11 <Ralph> Manu: I'm heavily involved in microformat community

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Unknown Manu: I'm heavily involved in microformat community [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:09:15 <Ralph> ... I could talk with SWEO

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Unknown Ralph: ... I could talk with SWEO

14:10:04 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/ SWEO WG

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Unknown Ralph: -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/ SWEO WG

14:10:37 <Ralph> Ben: There were some recent responses on the mailing list too, offering help

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Unknown Ben: There were some recent responses on the mailing list too, offering help [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:12:43 <Ralph> Ralph: Syntax doc was published last Friday

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Unknown Ralph: Syntax doc was published last Friday [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:13:09 <Ralph> ... SWD approved publishing new Primer on Tuesday

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Unknown Ralph: ... SWD approved publishing new Primer on Tuesday

14:13:36 <Ralph> ... Ben has given me the PubRules-compliant version of the Primer today, so I hope to be able to finish that this afternoon

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Unknown Ralph: ... Ben has given me the PubRules-compliant version of the Primer today, so I hope to be able to finish that this afternoon

14:14:03 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

14:14:07 <Ralph> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Oct/0235.html

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Unknown Ralph: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Oct/0235.html

14:14:07 <Simone> Zakim, IPcaller is me

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Unknown Simone: Zakim, IPcaller is me

14:14:07 <Zakim> +Simone; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Simone; got it

14:14:35 <Ralph> Chair: Mark

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14:14:53 <msporny> http://www.w3.org/2007/10/18-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary

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Unknown msporny: http://www.w3.org/2007/10/18-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary

14:15:47 <msporny> http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com:8080/

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Unknown msporny: http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com:8080/

14:15:57 <Ralph> Topic: Status of Test Cases / Test Harness

1. Status of Test Cases / Test Harness

14:16:26 <Ralph> Manu: anyone who has implemented their RDFa parser as a on-line Web service can use this harness

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Unknown Manu: anyone who has implemented their RDFa parser as a on-line Web service can use this harness [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:16:34 <Ralph> ... Benjee has started to use it

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Unknown Ralph: ... Benjee has started to use it

14:16:42 <Ralph> ... two of the test cases have not been updated

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Unknown Ralph: ... two of the test cases have not been updated

14:16:48 <Ralph> ... tests 11 and 29 fail

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Unknown Ralph: ... tests 11 and 29 fail

14:16:53 <Ralph> ... they shouldn't fail

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Unknown Ralph: ... they shouldn't fail

14:17:23 <Ralph> Mark: this is about stripping whitespace

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Unknown Mark: this is about stripping whitespace [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:17:36 <Ralph> Manu: yes; they pyrdf implementation differs from Benjee's

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Unknown Manu: yes; they pyrdf implementation differs from Benjee's [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:18:00 <Ralph> Mark: I thought we had concluded that we should strip whitespace [from the test cases]

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Unknown Mark: I thought we had concluded that we should strip whitespace [from the test cases] [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:18:15 <Ralph> ... because some browsers always strip whitespace, so it can't be recovered

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Unknown Ralph: ... because some browsers always strip whitespace, so it can't be recovered

14:18:26 <Ralph> Ben: yes, we'd agreed to strip whitespace

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Unknown Ben: yes, we'd agreed to strip whitespace [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:18:35 <Ralph> ... we added a pointer to the CSS language

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Unknown Ralph: ... we added a pointer to the CSS language

14:19:00 <Ralph> Shane: Steven is the right person to describe this language

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Unknown Shane: Steven is the right person to describe this language [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:19:15 <Ralph> ... I wanted to defer to CSS language

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Unknown Ralph: ... I wanted to defer to CSS language

14:19:39 <Ralph> ... the issue the XHTML2 WG faced was that we were asked by CSS not to reproduce their text so as not to introduce errors

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Unknown Ralph: ... the issue the XHTML2 WG faced was that we were asked by CSS not to reproduce their text so as not to introduce errors

14:19:50 <Ralph> ... we then copied their text verbatim but they didn't like that either

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Unknown Ralph: ... we then copied their text verbatim but they didn't like that either

14:20:02 <Ralph> Manu: so should we just point to CSS?

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Unknown Manu: so should we just point to CSS? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:20:12 <Ralph> Mark: no, we don't want our spec to change as a result of CSS changes

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Unknown Mark: no, we don't want our spec to change as a result of CSS changes [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:20:35 <Ralph> ... we might even want to adapt the language to our processing model

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Unknown Ralph: ... we might even want to adapt the language to our processing model

14:21:07 <Ralph> Shane: it's identified as an issue in the draft

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Unknown Shane: it's identified as an issue in the draft [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:22:01 <Ralph> Steven, are you willing to take an action to adapt the CSS language and propose it here?

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Unknown Ralph: Steven, are you willing to take an action to adapt the CSS language and propose it here?

14:22:39 <Ralph> Ben: I'll talk with Michael about test 29; that's part of my action to turn Ivan's comments into issues

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Unknown Ben: I'll talk with Michael about test 29; that's part of my action to turn Ivan's comments into issues [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:23:03 <Ralph> Manu: are we also stripping whitespace from XML literals?

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Unknown Manu: are we also stripping whitespace from XML literals? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:23:14 <Ralph> Mark: yes, I think we have the same problem there and need to be conservative

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Unknown Mark: yes, I think we have the same problem there and need to be conservative [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:23:30 <Ralph> ... that does mean we might lose information, e.g., in PRE

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Unknown Ralph: ... that does mean we might lose information, e.g., in PRE

14:23:48 <Ralph> Ben: there are rules that browsers follow to preserve whitespace in PRE

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Unknown Ben: there are rules that browsers follow to preserve whitespace in PRE [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:23:53 <Ralph> ... are those documented anywhere?

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Unknown Ralph: ... are those documented anywhere?

14:24:04 <Ralph> Mark: part of the problem is that the HTML and XHTML rules are different

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Unknown Mark: part of the problem is that the HTML and XHTML rules are different [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:24:18 <Ralph> Shane: maybe.  I've heard people say this, but never heard a CSS expert say so

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Unknown Shane: maybe. I've heard people say this, but never heard a CSS expert say so [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:24:37 <Ralph> Mark: I thought we needed certain CSS rules because HTML does remove leading and trailing spaces

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Unknown Mark: I thought we needed certain CSS rules because HTML does remove leading and trailing spaces [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:24:50 <Ralph> ... but I didn't encounter this problem in an HTML DOM

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Unknown Ralph: ... but I didn't encounter this problem in an HTML DOM

14:25:28 <Ralph> Ben: I have experienced this problem

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Unknown Ben: I have experienced this problem [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:25:39 <Ralph> ... in FireFox, the DOM has stripped the whitespace

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Unknown Ralph: ... in FireFox, the DOM has stripped the whitespace

14:26:15 <Ralph> ... when writing HTML I like to space things out; the browsers seem to ignore this

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Unknown Ralph: ... when writing HTML I like to space things out; the browsers seem to ignore this

14:26:29 <Ralph> Mark: we can define processing of literals differently from XML literals

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Unknown Mark: we can define processing of literals differently from XML literals [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:27:33 <Ralph> ... it would be nice to find out from implementors those cases where whitespace is stripped

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Unknown Ralph: ... it would be nice to find out from implementors those cases where whitespace is stripped

14:27:34 <Steven> I'm willing to take a look

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Unknown Steven: I'm willing to take a look

14:27:51 <Ralph> at adapting the CSS language, Steven?

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Unknown Ralph: at adapting the CSS language, Steven?

14:27:57 <Steven> yes

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Unknown Steven: yes

14:27:59 <Zakim> -Ben_Adida

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Ben_Adida

14:28:00 <Ralph> great; thanks

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Unknown Ralph: great; thanks

14:28:23 <Ralph> ACTION: Steven propose an adaptation of the CSS whitespace rules to incorporate into the Syntax document

ACTION: Steven propose an adaptation of the CSS whitespace rules to incorporate into the Syntax document

14:28:57 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ben_Adida

14:29:50 <Ralph> Mark: let's try to resolve the issue on whitespace in literals on the list

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Unknown Mark: let's try to resolve the issue on whitespace in literals on the list [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:30:56 <Ralph> Ben: I do see FireFox stripping the whitespace and I like it that way

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Unknown Ben: I do see FireFox stripping the whitespace and I like it that way [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:31:10 <Ralph> Mark: I'll double-check mine, then; I'm pretty sure I'm seeing whitespace preserved

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Unknown Mark: I'll double-check mine, then; I'm pretty sure I'm seeing whitespace preserved [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:31:31 <Ralph> Topic: handling @rel legacy values

2. handling @rel legacy values

14:31:54 <Ralph> Mark: not only the HTML rel values but also other uses, e.g. Dublin Core

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Unknown Mark: not only the HTML rel values but also other uses, e.g. Dublin Core [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:32:15 <Ralph> Topic: @instanceof

3. @instanceof

14:32:29 <Ralph> Mark: Ben and I had a long conversation and we have agreed on an approach to resolve the issue

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Unknown Mark: Ben and I had a long conversation and we have agreed on an approach to resolve the issue [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:32:41 <Ralph> ... Ben has sent me a set of use cases and I'll look at them

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Unknown Ralph: ... Ben has sent me a set of use cases and I'll look at them

14:33:17 <Ralph> Topic: handling @rel legacy values

4. handling @rel legacy values

14:33:46 <Ralph> Manu: some of the proposed triples seemed strange in relation to Mark's proposal

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Unknown Manu: some of the proposed triples seemed strange in relation to Mark's proposal [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:34:00 <Ralph> Shane: none of my triples addressed Mark's proposal

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Unknown Shane: none of my triples addressed Mark's proposal [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:34:39 <Ralph> ... (with my XHTML hat ...)

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Unknown Ralph: ... (with my XHTML hat ...)

14:34:59 <Ralph> ... in the XHTML world there are some defined values in XHTML 1, XHTML 1.1

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Unknown Ralph: ... in the XHTML world there are some defined values in XHTML 1, XHTML 1.1

14:35:03 <Ralph> ... this is an extensible set

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Unknown Ralph: ... this is an extensible set

14:35:25 <Ralph> ... the purpose of adding RDFa to XHTML2 two years ago was to help enable the Semantic Web for the common use cases

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Unknown Ralph: ... the purpose of adding RDFa to XHTML2 two years ago was to help enable the Semantic Web for the common use cases

14:35:34 <Ralph> ... that's why the XHTML2 WG is interested in RDFa

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Unknown Ralph: ... that's why the XHTML2 WG is interested in RDFa

14:36:00 <Ralph> ... so requiring the defined values to include a ':' does not address the XHTML2 use case

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Unknown Ralph: ... so requiring the defined values to include a ':' does not address the XHTML2 use case

14:36:25 <Ralph> Ben: there's also forward-looking interest from XHTML2

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Unknown Ben: there's also forward-looking interest from XHTML2 [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:36:29 <Ralph> Shane: yes, on extensibility

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Unknown Shane: yes, on extensibility [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:36:50 <Ralph> ... but the initial goal was to take advantage of the community mindshare that existing markup does generate triples

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Unknown Ralph: ... but the initial goal was to take advantage of the community mindshare that existing markup does generate triples

14:38:09 <Ralph> Mark: I do favor Shane's position, however given the problems we've had in that discussion, I've given up on pursuing that

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Unknown Mark: I do favor Shane's position, however given the problems we've had in that discussion, I've given up on pursuing that [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:38:35 <Ralph> ... so I'm suggesting a solution that doesn't skew things so we're prevented from doing other things in the future

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Unknown Ralph: ... so I'm suggesting a solution that doesn't skew things so we're prevented from doing other things in the future

14:38:47 <Ralph> ... so adding ':' prefix is a sort of minimal solution

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Unknown Ralph: ... so adding ':' prefix is a sort of minimal solution

14:39:42 <Ralph> ... if we take it informally that people should also parse 'next' and 'prev' in addition to ':next' and ':prev' but not specify how, that will buy us some time

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Unknown Ralph: ... if we take it informally that people should also parse 'next' and 'prev' in addition to ':next' and ':prev' but not specify how, that will buy us some time

14:40:10 <Ralph> ... we should take our time to get this right; look at Dublin Core, @profile, and others

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Unknown Ralph: ... we should take our time to get this right; look at Dublin Core, @profile, and others

14:40:25 <Ralph> Manu: I agree with Mark

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Unknown Manu: I agree with Mark [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:40:46 <Ralph> ... the biggest problem we've had in talking with microformats is in defining how these things should work

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Unknown Ralph: ... the biggest problem we've had in talking with microformats is in defining how these things should work

14:41:59 <Ralph> ... moving the discussion into legacy versus here's what you get by adding RDFa is a way to move forward, without discussing specifically what properties come from [specific values of] @rel and @rev

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Unknown Ralph: ... moving the discussion into legacy versus here's what you get by adding RDFa is a way to move forward, without discussing specifically what properties come from [specific values of] @rel and @rev

14:42:24 <Ralph> ... could we get feedback from the XHTML2 WG?

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Unknown Ralph: ... could we get feedback from the XHTML2 WG?

14:43:42 <Ralph> Shane: I don't think we'd get a different answer from the XHTML2 WG than the ones Mark and I just gave

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Unknown Shane: I don't think we'd get a different answer from the XHTML2 WG than the ones Mark and I just gave [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:44:21 <Ralph> ... there's value in saying the author has to explicitly say they want a triple [by adding ':']

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Unknown Ralph: ... there's value in saying the author has to explicitly say they want a triple [by adding ':']

14:45:03 <Ralph> ... but it's not consistent to say that implementations may generate other triples and allow those triples to appear in the default graph

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Unknown Ralph: ... but it's not consistent to say that implementations may generate other triples and allow those triples to appear in the default graph

14:45:38 <Ralph> Mark: it's a matter of interpretation whether @rel='next' exists yet as a triple

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Unknown Mark: it's a matter of interpretation whether @rel='next' exists yet as a triple [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:46:10 <Ralph> ... I have strong views on the solution, so the discussion may take a while

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Unknown Ralph: ... I have strong views on the solution, so the discussion may take a while

14:46:34 <Ralph> Ben: we're defining RDFa.  @rel='next' already has a meaning based on the XHTML1.1 specification

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Unknown Ben: we're defining RDFa. @rel='next' already has a meaning based on the XHTML1.1 specification [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:46:54 <Ralph> ... the idea behind Mark's proposal is "don't mess with the existing meaning"

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Unknown Ralph: ... the idea behind Mark's proposal is "don't mess with the existing meaning"

14:48:01 <Ralph> ... so Mark's proposal is that RDFa not change the meaning

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Unknown Ralph: ... so Mark's proposal is that RDFa not change the meaning

14:48:46 <Ralph> ... since there is a meaning

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Unknown Ralph: ... since there is a meaning

14:49:50 <Ralph> Ralph: but the current meaning is not expressed as a triple, so the RDFa spec should not encourage generating that triple without defining it

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Unknown Ralph: but the current meaning is not expressed as a triple, so the RDFa spec should not encourage generating that triple without defining it [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:50:06 <Ralph> Mark: My proposal is to not specify a triple for @rel='next'

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Unknown Mark: My proposal is to not specify a triple for @rel='next' [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:50:36 <Ralph> Shane: would we change CURIE to require ':'?

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Unknown Shane: would we change CURIE to require ':'? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:50:37 <Ralph> Mark: no

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Unknown Mark: no [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:50:57 <Ralph> Shane: so the processing rules would change to ignore when there's no ':'?

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Unknown Shane: so the processing rules would change to ignore when there's no ':'? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:51:07 <Ralph> Ben: those sound like flimsy host-language-specific rules

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Unknown Ben: those sound like flimsy host-language-specific rules [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:51:29 <Ralph> Mark: I'm suggesting 'undefined' rather than 'not processed'

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Unknown Mark: I'm suggesting 'undefined' rather than 'not processed' [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:51:51 <Ralph> Manu: with the notion of a preprocessing step, 'ignore anything without a colon' works

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Unknown Manu: with the notion of a preprocessing step, 'ignore anything without a colon' works [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:52:23 <Ralph> ... later, preprocessing can add ':' to @rel='next'

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Unknown Ralph: ... later, preprocessing can add ':' to @rel='next'

14:52:37 <Ralph> Mark: I'm trying to avoid saying anything about preprocessing

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Unknown Mark: I'm trying to avoid saying anything about preprocessing [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:53:08 <Ralph> Manu: we do expect to define preprocessing in the future

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Unknown Manu: we do expect to define preprocessing in the future [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:53:25 <Ralph> Mark: yes, but we don't yet know enough about what we want to specify in preprocessing

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Unknown Mark: yes, but we don't yet know enough about what we want to specify in preprocessing [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:55:06 <Ralph> ... we don't currently know enough to specify how to deal with the legacy values

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Unknown Ralph: ... we don't currently know enough to specify how to deal with the legacy values

14:56:12 <Ralph> ... I don't see a big issue in citing examples of legacy values and saying "we don't know yet how we want to handle these"

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Unknown Ralph: ... I don't see a big issue in citing examples of legacy values and saying "we don't know yet how we want to handle these"

14:56:12 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-work

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Unknown Steven: zakim, dial steven-work

14:56:13 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made

14:56:14 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven

14:56:52 <Ralph> Shane: I think if we're not going to solve this in the first Recommendation for XHTML1.1+RDFa, then we don't need to ever define it

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Unknown Shane: I think if we're not going to solve this in the first Recommendation for XHTML1.1+RDFa, then we don't need to ever define it [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:57:23 <Ralph> ... once we've established a baseline that requires a ':', we should just stick with it

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Unknown Ralph: ... once we've established a baseline that requires a ':', we should just stick with it

14:58:13 <Ralph> ... this is separate from whether CURIEs must have a colon

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Unknown Ralph: ... this is separate from whether CURIEs must have a colon

14:58:17 <Ralph> ... just triples require a colon

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Unknown Ralph: ... just triples require a colon

14:58:52 <Ralph> Ralph: my concern is about interoperability

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Unknown Ralph: my concern is about interoperability [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

14:59:27 <Ralph> ... we're not doing the community any favors if we release a spec that we *expect* will be implemented different ways without interoperability

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Unknown Ralph: ... we're not doing the community any favors if we release a spec that we *expect* will be implemented different ways without interoperability

14:59:29 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa#RDFa_schedule

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Unknown Steven: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa#RDFa_schedule

15:00:06 <Ralph> Topic: Schedule

5. Schedule

15:00:40 <Ralph> Ben: we'll need to push to resolve these issues before [Nov 22], as things will slow down after then

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Unknown Ben: we'll need to push to resolve these issues before [Nov 22], as things will slow down after then [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

15:01:38 <Ralph> Shane: will we meet on 8 Nov?

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Unknown Shane: will we meet on 8 Nov? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

15:01:41 <Ralph> Ben: no

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Unknown Ben: no [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

15:02:34 <Ralph> ... but 1 Nov we should meet; note it will be 1 hour earlier for Europeans

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Unknown Ralph: ... but 1 Nov we should meet; note it will be 1 hour earlier for Europeans

15:02:39 <Ralph> ... i.e. at 1500 UTC

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Unknown Ralph: ... i.e. at 1500 UTC

15:03:50 <Ralph> ... after November it will be at 1600 UTC

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Unknown Ralph: ... after November it will be at 1600 UTC

15:04:17 <Zakim> -Shane

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Shane

15:04:19 <Ralph> [adjourned]

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Unknown Ralph: [adjourned]

15:04:21 <Zakim> -Steven

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven

15:04:22 <Zakim> -markbirbeck

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Zakim IRC Bot: -markbirbeck

15:04:25 <Zakim> -Ralph

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Ralph

15:04:30 <Zakim> -msporny

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Zakim IRC Bot: -msporny

15:04:34 <Zakim> -Ben_Adida

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Ben_Adida

15:04:42 <Zakim> -Simone

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Simone

15:04:46 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)10:00AM has ended

15:04:48 <Zakim> Attendees were Ben_Adida, Ralph, msporny, +1.763.767.aaaa, Shane, markbirbeck, Simone, Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Ben_Adida, Ralph, msporny, +1.763.767.aaaa, Shane, markbirbeck, Simone, Steven

15:05:03 <Ralph> rrsagent, please draft minutes

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ralph: rrsagent, please draft minutes

15:05:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/26-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/26-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph

15:05:06 <Ralph> zakim, bye

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ralph: zakim, bye



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