Meeting Record

W3C RDF-in-XHTML TF - Telecon 2007-10-04, 15:00 UTC

Minutes of 04 October 2007

Agenda

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Oct/0023.html

Seen

Unknown Manu, Unknown Michael_Hausenblas, Unknown Ralph, Unknown RalphS, Unknown ShaneM, Unknown Steven, Unknown benadida, Unknown markbirbeck, Unknown mhausenblas, Unknown msporny

Regrets

Unknown Simone

Chair

Unknown Ben

Scribe

Unknown mhausenblas, Unknown ralphs

IRC Log

Original

Resolutions

to bring syntax as rec track, primer and use cases as notes, and test cases as supporting doc for syntax. link

Topics

Action Items
New Test Cases Proposed by Ivan for @instanceof
Is Primer destined for Note or Rec?
non-prefixed values of @rel

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14:44:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-irc ←

14:44:30 <mhausenblas> zakim, this will be SW_SWD(RDFa)

Scribe problem: the name 'mhausenblas' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown mhausenblas: zakim, this will be SW_SWD(RDFa) ←

14:44:30 <Zakim> ok, mhausenblas; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 16 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, mhausenblas; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 16 minutes ←

14:44:40 <mhausenblas> Meeting: W3C RDF-in-XHTML TF - Telecon 2007-10-04, 15:00 UTC

14:44:55 <mhausenblas> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Oct/0023.html

14:45:02 <mhausenblas> -> http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2007-09-27

Unknown mhausenblas: -> http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2007-09-27 ←

14:45:09 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes

Unknown mhausenblas: RRSAgent, draft minutes ←

14:45:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas ←

14:45:22 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public

Unknown mhausenblas: RRSAgent, make logs public ←

14:48:27 <mhausenblas> Chair: Ben

Scribe problem: the name 'Ben' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

14:48:31 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes

Unknown mhausenblas: RRSAgent, draft minutes ←

14:48:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas ←

14:51:34 <mhausenblas> zakim, who's here?

Unknown mhausenblas: zakim, who's here? ←

14:51:34 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has not yet started, mhausenblas

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has not yet started, mhausenblas ←

14:51:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, mhausenblas, myakura

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, mhausenblas, myakura ←

14:55:11 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes

Unknown mhausenblas: RRSAgent, draft minutes ←

14:55:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas ←

14:58:13 <RalphS> Regrets: Simone

Scribe problem: the name 'Simone' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

14:59:12 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started ←

14:59:32 <mhausenblas> zakim, who's here?

Unknown mhausenblas: zakim, who's here? ←

14:59:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see no one ←

14:59:44 <Zakim> +Michael_Hausenblas

Zakim IRC Bot: +Michael_Hausenblas ←

14:59:46 <Zakim> +Ralph

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ralph ←

14:59:47 <Zakim> On IRC I see ShaneM, msporny, RalphS, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, myakura

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see ShaneM, msporny, RalphS, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, myakura ←

15:00:27 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

15:00:40 <RalphS> http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-irc#T15-13-22 works for me, Michael

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RalphS: http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-irc#T15-13-22 works for me, Michael ←

15:00:47 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Steven: zakim, dial steven-617 ←

15:00:53 <RalphS> zakim, ipcaller is Manu

Unknown RalphS: zakim, ipcaller is Manu ←

15:01:03 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←

15:01:05 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←

15:01:11 <Zakim> +Manu; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Manu; got it ←

15:01:30 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-irc

Unknown mhausenblas: http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-irc ←

15:01:49 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←

15:02:09 <RalphS> http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-irc.html

Unknown RalphS: http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-irc.html ←

15:02:21 <RalphS> http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-irc.txt

Unknown RalphS: http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-irc.txt ←

15:03:13 <markbirbeck> zakim, codes?

Scribe problem: the name 'markbirbeck' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, codes? ←

15:03:13 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, markbirbeck.

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, markbirbeck. ←

15:03:25 <mhausenblas> zakim, code?

Unknown mhausenblas: zakim, code? ←

15:03:25 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), mhausenblas

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), mhausenblas ←

15:04:11 <Zakim> +??P11

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11 ←

15:04:21 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am ?

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, i am ? ←

15:04:21 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +markbirbeck; got it ←

15:04:54 <Zakim> +benadida

Zakim IRC Bot: +benadida ←

15:05:21 <mhausenblas> zakim, who's here?

Unknown mhausenblas: zakim, who's here? ←

15:05:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see Michael_Hausenblas, Ralph, Manu, Steven, ShaneM, markbirbeck, +1.617.395.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Michael_Hausenblas, Ralph, Manu, Steven, ShaneM, markbirbeck, +1.617.395.aaaa ←

15:05:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see benadida, markbirbeck, Steven, ShaneM, msporny, RalphS, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, myakura

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see benadida, markbirbeck, Steven, ShaneM, msporny, RalphS, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, myakura ←

15:05:41 <benadida> zakim, I am aaaa

Scribe problem: the name 'benadida' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown benadida: zakim, I am aaaa ←

15:05:41 <Zakim> ok, benadida, I now associate you with +1.617.395.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, benadida, I now associate you with +1.617.395.aaaa ←

15:09:03 <benadida> zakim, pick a victim

Unknown benadida: zakim, pick a victim ←

15:09:03 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose markbirbeck ←

15:09:18 <mhausenblas> ScribeNick: mhausenblas

(Scribe set to Unknown mhausenblas)

15:09:25 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes

RRSAgent, draft minutes ←

15:09:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas ←

15:09:31 <mhausenblas> Topic: Action Items

1. Action Items

15:09:38 <mhausenblas> -> http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary

-> http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary ←

15:09:53 <mhausenblas> [NEW] ACTION: Ben to add implementations page to RDFa.info [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]

[NEW] ACTION: Ben to add implementations page to RDFa.info [recorded in ACTION-08]">http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-08] ←

15:09:55 <mhausenblas> -- done

-- done ←

15:10:23 <mhausenblas> Ben: I started to move suff

Scribe problem: the name 'Ben' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ben: I started to move stuff ←

15:10:31 <mhausenblas> s/suff/stuff

15:10:37 <mhausenblas> [NEW] ACTION: Ben to remind the WG reviewers about review for FtF [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]

[NEW] ACTION: Ben to remind the WG reviewers about review for FtF [recorded in ACTION-07]">http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-07] ←

15:10:39 <mhausenblas> -- done

-- done ←

15:10:47 <mhausenblas> [NEW] ACTION: Shane to send a link to new editor's draft to Ben [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]

[NEW] ACTION: Shane to send a link to new editor's draft to Ben [recorded in ACTION-10]">http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-10] ←

15:10:49 <mhausenblas> -- done

-- done ←

15:10:58 <mhausenblas> Ben: I fwd link to SWD

Unknown Ben: I fwd link to SWD ←

15:11:04 <mhausenblas> [PENDING] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]

[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in ACTION-04]">http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-04] ←

15:11:07 <mhausenblas> -- continues

-- continues ←

15:11:14 <mhausenblas> [PENDING] ACTION: Ben, Mark, Elias, and other implementors to add xml:lang support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]

[PENDING] ACTION: Ben, Mark, Elias, and other implementors to add xml:lang support [recorded in ACTION-11]">http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-11] ←

15:11:47 <mhausenblas> -- done

-- done ←

15:12:12 <benadida> ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations' status on rdfa.info

ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info ←

15:12:24 <benadida> s/' status//

15:12:34 <mhausenblas> [PENDING] ACTION: Michael look for a more semantically correct predicate for tests 42-45 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]

[PENDING] ACTION: Michael look for a more semantically correct predicate for tests 42-45 [recorded in ACTION-14]">http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-14] ←

15:12:39 <mhausenblas> -- done

-- done ←

15:12:47 <mhausenblas> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Oct/0038.html report

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Oct/0038.html report ←

15:13:49 <Steven> I edited the cruft from last week's minutes

Unknown Steven: I edited the cruft from last week's minutes ←

15:14:00 <mhausenblas> Ben: Change the TC accordingly

Unknown Ben: Change the TC accordingly ←

15:14:06 <mhausenblas> [PENDING] ACTION: Michael make sure to confirm a design for checking that the ASK SPARQL queries evaluate (yes/no) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]

[PENDING] ACTION: Michael make sure to confirm a design for checking that the ASK SPARQL queries evaluate (yes/no) [recorded in ACTION-07]">http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-07] ←

15:14:36 <mhausenblas> -- continues

-- continues ←

15:14:45 <mhausenblas> [PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

[PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-06] ←

15:15:02 <mhausenblas> -- continues

-- continues ←

15:15:10 <mhausenblas> Topic: New Test Cases Proposed by Ivan for @instanceof

2. New Test Cases Proposed by Ivan for @instanceof

15:15:23 <mhausenblas> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Oct/0001 Ivan's TC proposal

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Oct/0001 Ivan's TC proposal ←

created using i/Michael: I have looked/scribenick: ralphs

Scribe problem: the name 'ralphs' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

(Scribe set to Unknown ralphs)

15:17:04 <RalphS> Michael: I have looked them over and they appear to be reasonable

Scribe problem: the name 'Michael' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Michael: I have looked them over and they appear to be reasonable [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:18:04 <RalphS> Ralph: I encouraged Ivan to propose these so we had test cases that document our decision w.r.t. subject of @instanceof

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ralph: I encouraged Ivan to propose these so we had test cases that document our decision w.r.t. subject of @instanceof [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:18:25 <RalphS> Michael: I'm only being cautious about the process -- want the TF to discuss adding them before we review them

Unknown Michael: I'm only being cautious about the process -- want the TF to discuss adding them before we review them [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:18:37 <RalphS> ... Fabien's proposed test cases are more complex

Unknown RalphS: ... Fabien's proposed test cases are more complex ←

15:20:37 <RalphS> Mark: I'd prefer to review the proposed tests after Michael has uploaded them to the test suite archive

Scribe problem: the name 'Mark' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Mark: I'd prefer to review the proposed tests after Michael has uploaded them to the test suite archive [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:21:10 <RalphS> ACTION: Michael add Ivan's proposed tests to the test suite

ACTION: Michael add Ivan's proposed tests to the test suite ←

15:21:41 <RalphS> Michael: Fabien's proposed tests are not atomic; they're quite complex

Unknown Michael: Fabien's proposed tests are not atomic; they're quite complex [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:21:57 <RalphS> Shane: do we have a process for more complex cases?

Scribe problem: the name 'Shane' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Shane: do we have a process for more complex cases? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:22:14 <RalphS> scribenick: ralphs

15:22:27 <mhausenblas> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Sep/0069.html

Unknown mhausenblas: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Sep/0069.html ←

15:22:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS ←

15:23:18 <RalphS> Michael: the tests are nice but complex

Unknown Michael: the tests are nice but complex [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:23:28 <mhausenblas> http://sw.joanneum.at/rdfa/rdfadebug/index.php

Unknown mhausenblas: http://sw.joanneum.at/rdfa/rdfadebug/index.php ←

15:24:04 <mhausenblas> http://sw.joanneum.at/rdfa/rdfadebug/index.php?preparedSelURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-sop.inria.fr%2Fedelweiss%2Fpeople%2FFabien.Gandon%2Fdocs%2Fw3c%2Frdfa%2Ftests%2F2007%2F09%2F10%2F0047.xhtml

Unknown mhausenblas: http://sw.joanneum.at/rdfa/rdfadebug/index.php?preparedSelURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-sop.inria.fr%2Fedelweiss%2Fpeople%2FFabien.Gandon%2Fdocs%2Fw3c%2Frdfa%2Ftests%2F2007%2F09%2F10%2F0047.xhtml ←

15:24:14 <RalphS> Ralph: Fabien's proposed 0046 with multiple space-separated properties seems the shorted possible test; what's the problem?

Unknown Ralph: Fabien's proposed 0046 with multiple space-separated properties seems the shorted possible test; what's the problem? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:26:17 <RalphS> ACTION: Michael add Fabien's tests to the test suite archive

ACTION: Michael add Fabien's tests to the test suite archive ←

15:26:27 <RalphS> ACTION: Michael add Fabien's proposed tests to the test suite archive

ACTION: Michael add Fabien's proposed tests to the test suite archive ←

15:26:29 <RalphS> action -3

Unknown RalphS: action -3 ←

15:26:51 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes

Unknown mhausenblas: RRSAgent, draft minutes ←

15:26:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas ←

created using i/Ben: Let us/scribenick: mhausenblas

(Scribe set to Unknown mhausenblas)

15:27:32 <mhausenblas> Ben: Let us review the new TC (Fabien's and Ivan's) together next time

Unknown Ben: Let us review the new TC (Fabien's and Ivan's) together next time ←

15:27:45 <RalphS> Topic: Is Primer destined for Note or Rec?

3. Is Primer destined for Note or Rec?

15:28:14 <mhausenblas> Ben: AFAIU Primer is a note and Syntax goes REC-Track

Unknown Ben: AFAIU Primer is a note and Syntax goes REC-Track ←

15:28:40 <mhausenblas> Steven: Second that

Unknown Steven: Second that ←

15:29:42 <mhausenblas> ... why having a rec on non-normative stuff

... why having a rec on non-normative stuff ←

15:30:38 <mhausenblas> Ben: Tom asked for SWD regarding this issue

Unknown Ben: Tom asked for SWD regarding this issue ←

15:30:57 <mhausenblas> Ralph: Most SW TR package have this

Unknown Ralph: Most SW TR package have this ←

15:31:21 <mhausenblas> ... REC Track has a precise definition

... REC Track has a precise definition ←

15:31:46 <mhausenblas> [[http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html]]

[[http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html]] ←

15:32:35 <mhausenblas> ... so Steven is right in saying that there may be more work with it

... so Steven is right in saying that there may be more work with it ←

15:32:55 <mhausenblas> Steven: May risk that the Primer may hold up the whole package

Unknown Steven: May risk that the Primer may hold up the whole package ←

15:33:16 <mhausenblas> Ben: Just want to make sure that it si no problem for SWD WG

Unknown Ben: Just want to make sure that it si no problem for SWD WG ←

15:33:30 <mhausenblas> Ralph: eg GRDDL Primer is a note

Unknown Ralph: eg GRDDL Primer is a note ←

15:33:55 <mhausenblas> ... so might be no reason to push the Primer through REC Track

... so might be no reason to push the Primer through REC Track ←

15:34:31 <RalphS> i/Ben: Let us/scribenick: mhausenblas

15:36:27 <mhausenblas> Ben: So we have Primer, Syntax, UC, TC

Unknown Ben: So we have Primer, Syntax, UC, TC ←

15:36:51 <mhausenblas> ... Syntax goes REC Track

... Syntax goes REC Track ←

15:36:57 <RalphS> i/Michael: I have looked/scribenick: ralphs

15:37:06 <mhausenblas> ... Primer and UC are notes

... Primer and UC are notes ←

15:37:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS ←

15:37:34 <benadida> PROPOSE to bring syntax as rec track, primer and use cases as notes, and test cases as supporting doc for syntax.

Unknown benadida: PROPOSE to bring syntax as rec track, primer and use cases as notes, and test cases as supporting doc for syntax. ←

15:37:38 <mhausenblas> +1

+1 ←

15:39:20 <benadida> RESOLVED

Unknown benadida: RESOLVED ←

15:39:33 <benadida> RESOLVED to bring syntax as rec track, primer and use cases as notes, and test cases as supporting doc for syntax.

RESOLVED: to bring syntax as rec track, primer and use cases as notes, and test cases as supporting doc for syntax. ←

15:39:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS ←

15:40:35 <mhausenblas> Topic:  non-prefixed values of @rel

4. non-prefixed values of @rel

15:41:16 <mhausenblas> Ben: Proposed the HTML URI

Unknown Ben: Proposed the HTML URI ←

15:41:36 <mhausenblas> Mark: We seem to have agreed on a pre-processing step

Unknown Mark: We seem to have agreed on a pre-processing step ←

15:41:44 <mhausenblas> ... takes out null values

... takes out null values ←

15:41:54 <mhausenblas> . and puts them into some NS TBD

. and puts them into some NS TBD ←

15:42:21 <mhausenblas> ... I'd like to see them put in a kind of general space

... I'd like to see them put in a kind of general space ←

15:43:05 <mhausenblas> Ben: The goal is that for people that use DC conventions

Unknown Ben: The goal is that for people that use DC conventions ←

15:43:27 <mhausenblas> ... which are not RDFa compatible, to make them work

... which are not RDFa compatible, to make them work ←

15:43:43 <mhausenblas> ... ignoring non-prefixed

... ignoring non-prefixed ←

15:43:56 <mhausenblas> ... so I do favour the pre-processing

... so I do favour the pre-processing ←

15:44:39 <mhausenblas> Mark: Agree

Unknown Mark: Agree ←

15:44:59 <mhausenblas> Manu: What does it mean semantically

Scribe problem: the name 'Manu' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Manu: What does it mean semantically ←

15:45:33 <mhausenblas> Mark: When undefined, certain use cases might be problematic

Unknown Mark: When undefined, certain use cases might be problematic ←

15:45:34 <Steven> q+

Unknown Steven: q+ ←

15:45:36 <RalphS> q+

Unknown RalphS: q+ ←

15:46:00 <Steven> q-

Unknown Steven: q- ←

15:46:16 <mhausenblas> Ben: When writing the RDFa extractor - what is the instruction for non-prefixed

Unknown Ben: When writing the RDFa extractor - what is the instruction for non-prefixed ←

15:46:44 <mhausenblas> ... we should focus the discussion

... we should focus the discussion ←

15:46:58 <mhausenblas> ... identify what is part of the RDFa spec

... identify what is part of the RDFa spec ←

15:47:13 <mhausenblas> Mark: Right - look into it

Unknown Mark: Right - look into it ←

15:48:00 <mhausenblas> Ben: It is ok to say that @rel only excepts prefixed values

Unknown Ben: It is ok to say that @rel only excepts prefixed values ←

15:48:19 <mhausenblas> ... @instanceof does not have this legacy problems

... @instanceof does not have this legacy problems ←

15:48:39 <mhausenblas> Ralph: For the record. What is the proposal?

Unknown Ralph: For the record. What is the proposal? ←

15:49:05 <mhausenblas> Ben: To ignore unprefixed @rels

Unknown Ben: To ignore unprefixed @rels ←

15:49:25 <mhausenblas> ... after pre-processing

... after pre-processing ←

15:49:27 <RalphS> Mark: the preprocessor will expand the reserved words in the HTML namespace

Unknown Mark: the preprocessor will expand the reserved words in the HTML namespace [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:50:14 <RalphS> ... a processor might also have a DC preprocessing step

Unknown RalphS: ... a processor might also have a DC preprocessing step ←

15:51:01 <mhausenblas> Ben: Proposal that RDFa defines a generic pre-processing step

Unknown Ben: Proposal that RDFa defines a generic pre-processing step ←

15:51:56 <mhausenblas> ... the pre-processing turns known attributes into prefixed ones

... the pre-processing turns known attributes into prefixed ones ←

15:52:05 <RalphS> Steven: for @rel and @property both?

Unknown Steven: for @rel and @property both? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:52:14 <mhausenblas> ... the actual processing ignores all unprefixed ones

... the actual processing ignores all unprefixed ones ←

15:52:22 <RalphS> Ben: @property is one we've added

Unknown Ben: @property is one we've added [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:53:12 <RalphS> Mark: it would be nice to be able to use <span xmlns="...foaf..." rel="knows" /> shorthand

Unknown Mark: it would be nice to be able to use <span xmlns="...foaf..." rel="knows" /> shorthand [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:53:28 <RalphS> Ben: but that modifies the host language namespace

Unknown Ben: but that modifies the host language namespace [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:53:51 <mhausenblas> ... bein open for other pre-processing steps

... being open for other pre-processing steps ←

15:53:58 <mhausenblas> s/bein/being

15:54:15 <Steven> ack R

Unknown Steven: ack R ←

15:54:15 <mhausenblas> ack RalphS

ack RalphS ←

15:55:00 <mhausenblas> RalphS: So @rel/@rev unprefixed after pre-processing are ignored?

Unknown RalphS: So @rel/@rev unprefixed after pre-processing are ignored? ←

15:55:28 <mhausenblas> ... we should be careful wrt the HTML host language

... we should be careful wrt the HTML host language ←

15:55:44 <mhausenblas> ... reserved words are expanded

... reserved words are expanded ←

15:56:00 <mhausenblas> ... so RDFa extractors can rely on that

... so RDFa extractors can rely on that ←

15:56:51 <mhausenblas> Ralph: To state something undefined is problematic

Unknown Ralph: To state something undefined is problematic ←

15:57:01 <mhausenblas> ... regarding common usage

... regarding common usage ←

15:57:33 <mhausenblas> Ben: For example take profile in the head

Unknown Ben: For example take profile in the head ←

15:57:48 <RalphS> Ralph: saying "undefined" for a feature that users may come to depend on in some implementation will lead to interoperability problems.

Unknown Ralph: saying "undefined" for a feature that users may come to depend on in some implementation will lead to interoperability problems. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:58:01 <mhausenblas> ... so we should not overwrite it

... so we should not overwrite it ←

15:58:51 <mhausenblas> Mark: There are two end of the scale

Unknown Mark: There are two end of the scale ←

15:59:33 <RalphS> q+

Unknown RalphS: q+ ←

15:59:37 <mhausenblas> ... just to ensure to make things available

... just to ensure to make things available ←

16:00:28 <mhausenblas> Mark: Might be a solution to put these triple into a non-default graph

Unknown Mark: Might be a solution to put these triple into a non-default graph ←

16:00:30 <Steven> zakim, remind me in 0 that it's time

Unknown Steven: zakim, remind me in 0 that it's time ←

16:00:30 <Zakim> ok, Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven ←

16:00:31 <Zakim> Steven, you asked to be reminded at this time that it's time

Zakim IRC Bot: Steven, you asked to be reminded at this time that it's time ←

16:01:08 <mhausenblas> Ralph: Layering issues, here

Unknown Ralph: Layering issues, here ←

16:01:26 <msporny> q+

Scribe problem: the name 'msporny' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown msporny: q+ ←

16:01:28 <mhausenblas> ... whatever happens in the pre-processing step is up to the application

... whatever happens in the pre-processing step is up to the application ←

16:02:22 <mhausenblas> Mark: range from ignored to undefined

Unknown Mark: range from ignored to undefined ←

16:02:44 <mhausenblas> Ralph: ignored means that pre-processing should have been done else

Unknown Ralph: ignored means that pre-processing should have been done else ←

16:03:12 <msporny> q-

Unknown msporny: q- ←

16:03:18 <mhausenblas> Ben: Towards a proposal ...

Unknown Ben: Towards a proposal ... ←

16:03:29 <mhausenblas> ... work with buckets

... work with buckets ←

16:03:43 <mhausenblas> ... define which goes into what

... define which goes into what ←

16:04:34 <mhausenblas> Manu: Fine when application-specific pre-processing is done that generates extra triples

Unknown Manu: Fine when application-specific pre-processing is done that generates extra triples ←

16:05:19 <RalphS> Manu: suggest handling unprefixed values in the same way as "extra triples" -- just say that if these generate triples, they are not in the default graph

Unknown Manu: suggest handling unprefixed values in the same way as "extra triples" -- just say that if these generate triples, they are not in the default graph [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

16:05:20 <mhausenblas> Mark: Shouldn't we be more specific

Unknown Mark: Shouldn't we be more specific ←

16:06:54 <mhausenblas> ... hard to tell if a document is valid, etc.

... hard to tell if a document is valid, etc. ←

16:07:57 <mhausenblas> Ben: IMHO it is not a RDFa extractor issue

Unknown Ben: IMHO it is not a RDFa extractor issue ←

16:08:30 <mhausenblas> Mark: It is confusing not to state it explicitely

Unknown Mark: It is confusing not to state it explicitely ←

16:08:54 <RalphS> Ben: if an application generates extra triples, whether they're from unprefixed @rel values or not, they get handled the same way.  Don't need to restate this multiple times.

Unknown Ben: if an application generates extra triples, whether they're from unprefixed @rel values or not, they get handled the same way. Don't need to restate this multiple times. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

16:10:04 <mhausenblas> Mark: Just as we defined it at CURIE's

Unknown Mark: Just as we defined it at CURIE's ←

16:11:12 <mhausenblas> Ben: Enable developer to extract more triples

Unknown Ben: Enable developer to extract more triples ←

16:11:20 <mhausenblas> in a defiend way

in a defined way ←

16:11:27 <mhausenblas> s/defiend/defined

16:11:44 <mhausenblas> Ben: We seem to have a resolution

Unknown Ben: We seem to have a resolution ←

16:12:13 <mhausenblas> ... non-prefixed @rel/@rev do not generate triples

... non-prefixed @rel/@rev do not generate triples ←

16:12:27 <RalphS> ("in the default graph")

Unknown RalphS: ("in the default graph") ←

16:12:39 <benadida> PROPOSE: @rel and @rev values that are non-prefixed and not in the XHTML reserved words do not generate triples in the default graph

Scribe problem: the name 'PROPOSE' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown PROPOSE: @rel and @rev values that are non-prefixed and not in the XHTML reserved words do not generate triples in the default graph [ Scribe Assist by Unknown benadida ] ←

16:12:50 <RalphS> +1

Unknown RalphS: +1 ←

16:12:52 <mhausenblas> +1

+1 ←

16:12:52 <msporny> +1

Unknown msporny: +1 ←

16:12:57 <Steven> ok

Unknown Steven: ok ←

16:14:24 <mhausenblas> Mark: For consistency: @property the same?

Unknown Mark: For consistency: @property the same? ←

16:14:28 <Steven> ok with me

Unknown Steven: ok with me ←

16:14:33 <mhausenblas> Ben: Separate issue

Unknown Ben: Separate issue ←

16:14:33 <Steven> COnsistency is importnant

Unknown Steven: Consistency is important ←

16:14:40 <Steven> s/nant/ant/

16:14:47 <Steven> s/CO/Co

16:15:25 <mhausenblas> Ralph: The issue with @rel/@rev is that there is already a usage

Unknown Ralph: The issue with @rel/@rev is that there is already a usage ←

16:15:39 <Steven> and @property is new

Unknown Steven: and @property is new ←

16:16:37 <RalphS> Mark: property="foo" will, by CURIE rules, go into the 'vocab' (i.e. non-default) graph

Unknown Mark: property="foo" will, by CURIE rules, go into the 'vocab' (i.e. non-default) graph [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

16:16:55 <RalphS> ... must write property=":foo" to use the in-scope namespace

Unknown RalphS: ... must write property=":foo" to use the in-scope namespace ←

16:17:10 <RalphS> ... according to the current Syntax document

Unknown RalphS: ... according to the current Syntax document ←

16:18:07 <markbirbeck> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-rdfa-syntax-20070927/#s_curies

Unknown markbirbeck: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-rdfa-syntax-20070927/#s_curies ←

16:19:07 <ShaneM>  +q

Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ShaneM: +q ←

16:20:14 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes

RRSAgent, draft minutes ←

16:20:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas ←

16:20:32 <ShaneM>  -q

Unknown ShaneM: -q ←

16:20:55 <mhausenblas> Ben: Need to continue this discussion, based on the goal

Unknown Ben: Need to continue this discussion, based on the goal ←

16:21:06 <Steven> s/RESOLVED/RESOLVED:/

16:21:12 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

Unknown Steven: rrsagent, make minutes ←

16:21:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html Steven ←

16:21:35 <mhausenblas> Mark: Acknowledge legacy usage of @rel values

Unknown Mark: Acknowledge legacy usage of @rel values ←

16:21:36 <Steven> s/RESOLVED/RESOLUTION/

16:21:41 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

Unknown Steven: rrsagent, make minutes ←

16:21:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html Steven ←

16:22:10 <RalphS> [I'm interested in the new input from Manu that having different rules for @rel values vs. @property values will be overly confusing]

Unknown RalphS: [I'm interested in the new input from Manu that having different rules for @rel values vs. @property values will be overly confusing] ←

16:22:17 <benadida> ACTION: Ben to bring non-prefixed @rel issue to email

ACTION: Ben to bring non-prefixed @rel issue to email ←

16:22:36 <RalphS> [I really want @property="foo" to use the in-scope namespace, but I'm interested in more discussion especially from Manu]

Unknown RalphS: [I really want @property="foo" to use the in-scope namespace, but I'm interested in more discussion especially from Manu] ←

16:22:40 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes

RRSAgent, draft minutes ←

16:22:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas ←

16:22:43 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←

16:22:58 <Zakim> -Manu

Zakim IRC Bot: -Manu ←

16:23:00 <Zakim> -Michael_Hausenblas

Scribe problem: the name 'Michael_Hausenblas' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Michael_Hausenblas ←

16:23:01 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←

16:23:03 <Zakim> -markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: -markbirbeck ←

16:23:04 <Zakim> -Ralph

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ralph ←

16:23:06 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended ←

16:23:07 <Zakim> Attendees were Michael_Hausenblas, Ralph, Steven, Manu, ShaneM, markbirbeck, benadida

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Michael_Hausenblas, Ralph, Steven, Manu, ShaneM, markbirbeck, benadida ←

16:23:19 <RalphS> zakim, bye

Unknown RalphS: zakim, bye ←

16:24:44 <RalphS> rrsagent, draft minutes

Unknown RalphS: rrsagent, draft minutes ←

16:24:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS ←

16:26:58 <RalphS> rrsagent, bye

Unknown RalphS: rrsagent, bye ←

16:26:58 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-actions.rdf : ←

16:26:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations' status on rdfa.info [1]

ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations' status on rdfa.info [1] ←

16:26:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-irc#T15-12-12

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-irc#T15-12-12 ←

16:26:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael add Ivan's proposed tests to the test suite [2]

ACTION: Michael add Ivan's proposed tests to the test suite [2] ←

16:26:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-irc#T15-21-10

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-irc#T15-21-10 ←

16:26:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael add Fabien's proposed tests to the test suite archive [4]

ACTION: Michael add Fabien's proposed tests to the test suite archive [4] ←

16:26:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-irc#T15-26-27

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-irc#T15-26-27 ←

16:26:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to bring non-prefixed @rel issue to email [5]

ACTION: Ben to bring non-prefixed @rel issue to email [5] ←

16:26:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-irc#T16-22-17

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-irc#T16-22-17 ←

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