Meeting Record

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W3C RDF-in-XHTML TF - Telecon 2007-08-09, 15:00 UTC

Minutes of 09 August 2007

Agenda

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Aug/0080.html

Seen

Unknown Michael_Hausenblas, Unknown Ralph, Unknown RalphS, Unknown ShaneM, Unknown markbirbeck, Unknown mhausenblas

Regrets

Unknown Ben

Chair

Unknown collective

Scribe

Unknown mhausenblas, Unknown Ralph, Unknown ralphs

IRC Log

Original

Resolutions

test 29 approved, after correcting the result to include the whitespace and updating the title per Ben's suggestion link
test 30 approved link
test 31 accepted, removing DIV and replacing A with SPAN link
test 32 accepted, removing DIV and replacing the @href value with an information resource link
test 33 accepted, with corrected subject link
test 9 re-approved, as corrected link

Topics

Action Item Review
Test Case review
Validation

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14:43:02 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-irc ←

14:43:12 <mhausenblas> zakim, this will be SW_SWD(RDFa)

Scribe problem: the name 'mhausenblas' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown mhausenblas: zakim, this will be SW_SWD(RDFa) ←

14:43:12 <Zakim> ok, mhausenblas; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 17 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, mhausenblas; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 17 minutes ←

14:43:43 <mhausenblas> Meeting: W3C RDF-in-XHTML TF - Telecon 2007-08-09, 15:00 UTC

14:44:16 <mhausenblas> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Aug/0080.html

14:44:27 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes

Unknown mhausenblas: RRSAgent, draft minutes ←

14:44:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas ←

14:44:34 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public

Unknown mhausenblas: RRSAgent, make logs public ←

14:44:59 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes

Unknown mhausenblas: RRSAgent, draft minutes ←

14:44:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas ←

14:45:12 <mhausenblas> ScribeNick: mhausenblas

(Scribe set to Unknown mhausenblas)

14:50:19 <mhausenblas> -> http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2007-08-02

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

-> http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2007-08-02 ←

14:51:33 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes

RRSAgent, draft minutes ←

14:51:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas ←

14:55:10 <RalphS> Thanks, Michael, for proposing an agenda

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RalphS: Thanks, Michael, for proposing an agenda ←

14:55:23 <RalphS> I believe I'm the designated scribe for today

Unknown RalphS: I believe I'm the designated scribe for today ←

14:56:44 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started ←

14:56:52 <Zakim> +Michael_Hausenblas

Zakim IRC Bot: +Michael_Hausenblas ←

14:57:00 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public

RRSAgent, make logs public ←

14:57:12 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes

RRSAgent, draft minutes ←

14:57:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas ←

14:57:27 <mhausenblas> zakim, who's here?

zakim, who's here? ←

14:57:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see Michael_Hausenblas

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Michael_Hausenblas ←

14:57:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see mhausenblas, RalphS, Zakim, RRSAgent, markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see mhausenblas, RalphS, Zakim, RRSAgent, markbirbeck ←

14:59:34 <Zakim> +Ralph

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ralph ←

15:00:04 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←

15:02:27 <RalphS> scribe: Ralph

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

(Scribe set to Unknown Ralph)

15:02:30 <RalphS> scribenick: ralphs

Scribe problem: the name 'ralphs' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

(Scribe set to Unknown ralphs)

15:02:33 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?

Scribe problem: the name 'markbirbeck' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, code? ←

15:02:33 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck ←

15:03:12 <Zakim> +??P26

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P26 ←

15:03:19 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am ?

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, i am ? ←

15:03:19 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +markbirbeck; got it ←

15:03:20 <RalphS> Chair: collective

Scribe problem: the name 'collective' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

15:04:09 <RalphS> Topic: Action Item Review

1. Action Item Review

15:04:10 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben to recontact implementors Elias, MarkB, triplr and post their implementations to http://esw.w3.org/topic/RDFa#Implementations  [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]

ACTION: Ben to recontact implementors Elias, MarkB, triplr and post their implementations to http://esw.w3.org/topic/RDFa#Implementations [recorded in ACTION-09]">http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-09] ←

15:04:13 <RalphS> -- continues

Unknown RalphS: -- continues ←

15:04:22 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben to work through xml:lang issue with Ivan [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]

ACTION: Ben to work through xml:lang issue with Ivan [recorded in ACTION-07]">http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-07] ←

15:04:23 <RalphS> -- continues

Unknown RalphS: -- continues ←

15:04:35 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Michael test how <SPAN /> behaves in Internet Explorer [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

Unknown RalphS: [DONE] ACTION: Michael test how <SPAN /> behaves in Internet Explorer [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-06] ←

15:04:38 <mhausenblas> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Aug/0012.html

Unknown mhausenblas: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Aug/0012.html ←

15:04:50 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Michael to email individual emails to resolve TCs 29-33 (TC 28 to be resolved post xml:lang discussion) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]

Unknown RalphS: [DONE] ACTION: Michael to email individual emails to resolve TCs 29-33 (TC 28 to be resolved post xml:lang discussion) [recorded in ACTION-08]">http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-08] ←

15:04:50 <RalphS>

Unknown RalphS: ←

15:04:52 <mhausenblas> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Aug/0015.html

Unknown mhausenblas: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Aug/0015.html ←

15:05:08 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]

ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in ACTION-04]">http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-04] ←

15:05:10 <RalphS> -- continues

Unknown RalphS: -- continues ←

15:05:23 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben to sum up @href/@resource everywhere proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]

ACTION: Ben to sum up @href/@resource everywhere proposal [recorded in ACTION-10]">http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-10] ←

15:05:24 <RalphS> -- continues

Unknown RalphS: -- continues ←

15:05:31 <RalphS> ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10]

ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in ACTION-10]">http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-10] ←

15:05:32 <RalphS> -- continues

Unknown RalphS: -- continues ←

15:05:42 <RalphS> ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when using @content after October [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]

ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when using @content after October [recorded in ACTION-08]">http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-08] ←

15:05:42 <RalphS>

Unknown RalphS: ←

15:05:44 <RalphS> -- postponed

Unknown RalphS: -- postponed ←

15:05:50 <RalphS> Topic: Test Case review

2. Test Case review

15:05:58 <mhausenblas> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFaTC RDFa TC

Unknown mhausenblas: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFaTC RDFa TC ←

15:06:38 <RalphS> Michael: test 28 is still on hold, pending Ben's action

Scribe problem: the name 'Michael' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Michael: test 28 is still on hold, pending Ben's action [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:07:19 <RalphS> -- test 29 --

Unknown RalphS: -- test 29 -- ←

15:07:29 <RalphS> Michael: Ben suggested changing the title

Unknown Michael: Ben suggested changing the title [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:07:59 <RalphS>  meta content

Unknown RalphS: meta content ←

15:08:34 <RalphS> Michael: should the final space be dropped?

Unknown Michael: should the final space be dropped? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:09:20 <RalphS> Ralph: this has to do with the default for preserving whitespace in XML parser, right?

Unknown Ralph: this has to do with the default for preserving whitespace in XML parser, right? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:09:32 <RalphS> Shane: yes, and XHTML requires that the parser always preserves whitespace

Scribe problem: the name 'Shane' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Shane: yes, and XHTML requires that the parser always preserves whitespace [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:10:02 <RalphS> Ralph: in that case, then I believe the triple does need to retain the whitespace

Unknown Ralph: in that case, then I believe the triple does need to retain the whitespace [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:10:48 <RalphS> resolved: test 29 approved, after correcting the result to include the whitespace and updating the title per Ben's suggestion

RESOLVED: test 29 approved, after correcting the result to include the whitespace and updating the title per Ben's suggestion ←

15:11:02 <RalphS> -- test 30,  omitted @about --

Unknown RalphS: -- test 30, omitted @about -- ←

15:11:13 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0030 test 30

Unknown RalphS: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0030 test 30 ←

15:11:25 <RalphS> Michael: I made the Creative Commons correction requested by Ben

Unknown Michael: I made the Creative Commons correction requested by Ben [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:12:16 <RalphS> resolved: test 30 approved

RESOLVED: test 30 approved ←

15:13:40 <markbirbeck> q+

Unknown markbirbeck: q+ ←

15:14:10 <mhausenblas> ack markbirbeck

Unknown mhausenblas: ack markbirbeck ←

15:14:22 <RalphS> Ralph: Ivan commented that it could be useful to have xml:base in our tests so the test can be run off-line

Unknown Ralph: Ivan commented that it could be useful to have xml:base in our tests so the test can be run off-line [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:14:56 <RalphS> ... I feel that adding xml:base changes the tests and it's easy enough for a tester to modify the subject URI if they need to do so

Unknown RalphS: ... I feel that adding xml:base changes the tests and it's easy enough for a tester to modify the subject URI if they need to do so ←

15:15:15 <RalphS> Mark: perhaps we could add a $BASE variable to the results so it's clear what would need to be replaced

Scribe problem: the name 'Mark' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Mark: perhaps we could add a $BASE variable to the results so it's clear what would need to be replaced [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:15:33 <RalphS> Michael: I say that as we're testing the Semantic Web the tests should be run on-line

Unknown Michael: I say that as we're testing the Semantic Web the tests should be run on-line [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:15:43 <RalphS> ... the test should work on the Net

Unknown RalphS: ... the test should work on the Net ←

15:16:05 <RalphS> Shane: I brought this up in the XHTML2 WG meeting again yesterday

Unknown Shane: I brought this up in the XHTML2 WG meeting again yesterday [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:16:27 <RalphS> ... my belief is that xml:base will not be added to Modularization 1

Unknown RalphS: ... my belief is that xml:base will not be added to Modularization 1 ←

15:16:44 <RalphS> ... because the other languages that depend on Modularization 1 do not define the semantics of xml:bse

Unknown RalphS: ... because the other languages that depend on Modularization 1 do not define the semantics of xml:base ←

15:16:49 <RalphS> s/bse/base/

15:17:01 <RalphS> ... if this group does want xml:base support then it's trivial to add

Unknown RalphS: ... if this group does want xml:base support then it's trivial to add ←

15:17:15 <RalphS> ... this decision would have far-reaching ramifications, however

Unknown RalphS: ... this decision would have far-reaching ramifications, however ←

15:17:24 <RalphS> ... we'd be saying that browsers would have to support it

Unknown RalphS: ... we'd be saying that browsers would have to support it ←

15:17:33 <RalphS> ... current browsers don't support it

Unknown RalphS: ... current browsers don't support it ←

15:18:07 <RalphS> Mark: let's postpone a decision on xml:base

Unknown Mark: let's postpone a decision on xml:base [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:18:46 <RalphS> ACTION: Michael add xml:base issue to tracker

ACTION: Michael add xml:base issue to tracker ←

15:19:04 <RalphS> -- test 31:  simple @resource --

Unknown RalphS: -- test 31: simple @resource -- ←

15:19:11 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0031 test 31

Unknown RalphS: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0031 test 31 ←

15:20:18 <RalphS> Mark: I'd suggest that we not use A in this test; use DIV or SPAN instead

Unknown Mark: I'd suggest that we not use A in this test; use DIV or SPAN instead [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:20:52 <ShaneM>  I agree

Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ShaneM: I agree ←

15:20:53 <RalphS> ... in this particular case, a SPAN around the ISBN would be nicer

Unknown RalphS: ... in this particular case, a SPAN around the ISBN would be nicer ←

15:21:14 <RalphS> ... why not put @about on the P rather than the DIV?

Unknown RalphS: ... why not put @about on the P rather than the DIV? ←

15:21:39 <RalphS> Michael: I think the validator wouldn't let me omit the P

Unknown Michael: I think the validator wouldn't let me omit the P [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:21:55 <RalphS> Shane: it won't validate without the P but it would validate without the DIV

Unknown Shane: it won't validate without the P but it would validate without the DIV [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:22:14 <RalphS> ... where's the 'wtw' anchor?

Unknown RalphS: ... where's the 'wtw' anchor? ←

15:22:18 <RalphS> Mark: there doesn't need to be one

Unknown Mark: there doesn't need to be one [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:22:55 <RalphS> Shane: it's an unresolvable fragment id. I don't care if you guys don't care

Unknown Shane: it's an unresolvable fragment id. I don't care if you guys don't care [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:23:15 <RalphS> Mark: it's ok but it does look odd.  We could use an Amazon URI instead.

Unknown Mark: it's ok but it does look odd. We could use an Amazon URI instead. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:23:27 <RalphS> Shane: if this simple minimalist test is OK in your eyes, that's fine

Unknown Shane: if this simple minimalist test is OK in your eyes, that's fine [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:23:42 <RalphS> ... this test is speaking about something I can't find

Unknown RalphS: ... this test is speaking about something I can't find ←

15:23:57 <mhausenblas> ack RalphS

Unknown mhausenblas: ack RalphS ←

15:25:23 <RalphS> Ralph: if there were an anchor then there is an ambiguity about whether the subject is a book or an HTML fragment

Unknown Ralph: if there were an anchor then there is an ambiguity about whether the subject is a book or an HTML fragment [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:25:39 <RalphS> Mark: think of it as a primary key; it just happens to look like a URI

Unknown Mark: think of it as a primary key; it just happens to look like a URI [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:25:43 <mhausenblas> -> http://sites.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/suhl/bizer/pub/LinkedDataTutorial/

Unknown mhausenblas: -> http://sites.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/suhl/bizer/pub/LinkedDataTutorial/ ←

15:26:25 <RalphS> Shane: the document would fail W3C link checking

Unknown Shane: the document would fail W3C link checking [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:26:32 <RalphS> ... but maybe that's OK

Unknown RalphS: ... but maybe that's OK ←

15:26:59 <RalphS> resolved: test 31 accepted, removing DIV and replacing A with SPAN

RESOLVED: test 31 accepted, removing DIV and replacing A with SPAN ←

15:27:09 <RalphS> -- test 32; @resource overrides @href --

Unknown RalphS: -- test 32; @resource overrides @href -- ←

15:27:17 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0032 test 32

Unknown RalphS: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0032 test 32 ←

15:27:41 <RalphS> Michael: similar to test 31 except we also have @href and @resource takes precedence

Unknown Michael: similar to test 31 except we also have @href and @resource takes precedence [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:27:59 <ShaneM>  Again, we could get rid of the DIV and move the about to the P...

Unknown ShaneM: Again, we could get rid of the DIV and move the about to the P... ←

15:28:05 <ShaneM>  Keep the A

Unknown ShaneM: Keep the A ←

15:28:29 <RalphS> Michael: we need A in this case to illustrate the @href

Unknown Michael: we need A in this case to illustrate the @href [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:29:09 <RalphS> Mark: I'd prefer that @href point to an information resource

Unknown Mark: I'd prefer that @href point to an information resource [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:29:37 <RalphS> resolved: test 32 accepted, removing DIV and replacing the @href value with an information resource

RESOLVED: test 32 accepted, removing DIV and replacing the @href value with an information resource ←

15:29:52 <RalphS> -- test 33;  simple chaining test with bNode --

Unknown RalphS: -- test 33; simple chaining test with bNode -- ←

15:30:01 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0033 test 33

Unknown RalphS: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0033 test 33 ←

15:30:08 <RalphS> Michael: test 33 was split out from test 25

Unknown Michael: test 33 was split out from test 25 [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:30:49 <RalphS> Ralph: subject URI still says '25'

Unknown Ralph: subject URI still says '25' [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:31:24 <RalphS> Shane: general editorial comment about all these tests;

Unknown Shane: general editorial comment about all these tests; [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:31:39 <RalphS> ... I believe we had discussed dropping the unused xmlns: declarations at the top of the test cases

Unknown RalphS: ... I believe we had discussed dropping the unused xmlns: declarations at the top of the test cases ←

15:31:51 <RalphS> Michael: yes, we agreed and didn't record an action

Unknown Michael: yes, we agreed and didn't record an action [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:32:06 <RalphS> ACTION: Michael remove excess xmlns: declarations from test cases

ACTION: Michael remove excess xmlns: declarations from test cases ←

15:32:37 <RalphS> resolved: test 33 accepted, with corrected subject

RESOLVED: test 33 accepted, with corrected subject ←

15:33:05 <RalphS> Michael: regarding test 9

Unknown Michael: regarding test 9 [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:33:17 <RalphS> ... we approved this in error; the sparql query was wrong

Unknown RalphS: ... we approved this in error; the sparql query was wrong ←

15:33:30 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0009 test 9

Unknown RalphS: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0009 test 9 ←

15:33:57 <RalphS> ... what should we do process-wise if someone identifies an error in a previously approved test?

Unknown RalphS: ... what should we do process-wise if someone identifies an error in a previously approved test? ←

15:35:17 <RalphS> Michael: I fixed the error in the sparql query (reversing Person1 and Person2)

Unknown Michael: I fixed the error in the sparql query (reversing Person1 and Person2) [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:35:24 <RalphS> resolved: test 9 re-approved, as corrected

RESOLVED: test 9 re-approved, as corrected ←

15:36:13 <RalphS> Ralph: I think it's good to have on record when we correct a test

Unknown Ralph: I think it's good to have on record when we correct a test [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:36:45 <RalphS> Shane: we can be fairly loose now but once we're in CR then we'll need to version the test suite

Unknown Shane: we can be fairly loose now but once we're in CR then we'll need to version the test suite [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:37:09 <RalphS> ... version N of the test suite should only be changed by declaring a test invalid, not adding or removing tests

Unknown RalphS: ... version N of the test suite should only be changed by declaring a test invalid, not adding or removing tests ←

15:38:00 <RalphS> ... as far as 'editorial' changes, we should rely on Michael's judgement

Unknown RalphS: ... as far as 'editorial' changes, we should rely on Michael's judgement ←

15:38:11 <RalphS> Michael: I promise to report to the TF whenever I change something

Unknown Michael: I promise to report to the TF whenever I change something [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:38:58 <RalphS> Topic: Validation

3. Validation

15:39:22 <RalphS> Shane: I think there's only about 3 changes needed.  I just need someone to summarize and I'll update the DTD

Unknown Shane: I think there's only about 3 changes needed. I just need someone to summarize and I'll update the DTD [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:39:33 <ShaneM>  meta and link are not everywhere....

Unknown ShaneM: meta and link are not everywhere.... ←

15:39:40 <ShaneM>  add instanceof and resource

Unknown ShaneM: add instanceof and resource ←

15:40:26 <mhausenblas> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Aug/0078.html

Unknown mhausenblas: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Aug/0078.html ←

15:40:33 <RalphS> Michael: I suggest we wait to change the DTD until we've resolved [the name of] @instanceof

Unknown Michael: I suggest we wait to change the DTD until we've resolved [the name of] @instanceof [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:40:49 <markbirbeck> Also, @href is not everywhere.

Unknown markbirbeck: Also, @href is not everywhere. ←

15:40:49 <RalphS> ... also xml:lang

Unknown RalphS: ... also xml:lang ←

15:41:12 <RalphS> Shane: two different issues.  The good news is that the new W3C validator relies on the DTD that I control

Unknown Shane: two different issues. The good news is that the new W3C validator relies on the DTD that I control [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:41:36 <RalphS> ... the second issue is to get the DTD into the pull-down list, which probably won't happen until RDFa is at least CR

Unknown RalphS: ... the second issue is to get the DTD into the pull-down list, which probably won't happen until RDFa is at least CR ←

15:43:06 <RalphS> Ralph: I'd like to be reminding people that we've switched from @class to @instanceof asap

Unknown Ralph: I'd like to be reminding people that we've switched from @class to @instanceof asap [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:43:23 <RalphS> Shane: unfortunately, the validator won't help with that at all, as @class remains DTD-valid

Unknown Shane: unfortunately, the validator won't help with that at all, as @class remains DTD-valid [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:43:56 <RalphS> Mark: people are already adopting idioms for RDFa; e.g. <EVENT> ...

Unknown Mark: people are already adopting idioms for RDFa; e.g. <EVENT> ... [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:44:23 <mhausenblas> -> http://rdfa.info/2007/08/07/w3c-htmlrdfa-validator/

Unknown mhausenblas: -> http://rdfa.info/2007/08/07/w3c-htmlrdfa-validator/ ←

15:44:25 <RalphS> Shane: best we can do is announce the change very publicly and loudly

Unknown Shane: best we can do is announce the change very publicly and loudly [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:45:38 <RalphS> Michael: the xml:lang decision is still a big open thing for at least one implementor

Unknown Michael: the xml:lang decision is still a big open thing for at least one implementor [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:45:55 <RalphS> ... we'll need Ben's action to close that

Unknown RalphS: ... we'll need Ben's action to close that ←

15:46:17 <RalphS> Shane: this issue comes because we're using XHTML1.1 strict which doesn't have xml:lang ?

Unknown Shane: this issue comes because we're using XHTML1.1 strict which doesn't have @lang, just xml:lang ? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:46:43 <RalphS> s/xml:lang/lang, just xml:lang/

15:46:54 <RalphS> ... we deprecated @lang in XHTML 1.0

Unknown RalphS: ... we deprecated @lang in XHTML 1.0 ←

15:47:08 <RalphS> s/ lang/ @lang/

15:47:15 <RalphS> s/ xml:/ @xml:/

15:47:40 <RalphS> Shane: the Task Force could decide to add @lang back, but I would not recommend this

Unknown Shane: the Task Force could decide to add @lang back, but I would not recommend this [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:48:09 <RalphS> Mark: we should be leveraging XML and XHTML, not adding too much

Unknown Mark: we should be leveraging XML and XHTML, not adding too much [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:48:50 <RalphS> ... the idea of RDFa being a layer on an existing language, with part of the definition being the interpreation of existing attributes in the base language and the other part of the definition being the attributes that we add

Unknown RalphS: ... the idea of RDFa being a layer on an existing language, with part of the definition being the interpreation of existing attributes in the base language and the other part of the definition being the attributes that we add ←

15:49:09 <RalphS> Michael: the test cases could just say "it's XHTML1.1 now"

Unknown Michael: the test cases could just say "it's XHTML1.1 now" [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:49:16 <RalphS> Mark: or make two sets of tests

Unknown Mark: or make two sets of tests [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:49:31 <RalphS> Shane: I fully intend to produce a DTD for HTML+RDFa

Unknown Shane: I fully intend to produce a DTD for HTML+RDFa [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:49:40 <RalphS> ... I've already done it and I intend to maintain it

Unknown RalphS: ... I've already done it and I intend to maintain it ←

15:49:52 <mhausenblas> see also -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFaInHTML

Unknown mhausenblas: see also -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFaInHTML ←

15:49:56 <RalphS> ... in the context of HTML4 we do need to talk about @lang

Unknown RalphS: ... in the context of HTML4 we do need to talk about @lang ←

15:50:06 <RalphS> ... as we're inheriting that environment

Unknown RalphS: ... as we're inheriting that environment ←

15:50:32 <RalphS> Michael: I wouldn't like to see that we define @lang one way for HTML4 and a different way for XHTML1

Unknown Michael: I wouldn't like to see that we define @lang one way for HTML4 and a different way for XHTML1 [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:50:49 <RalphS> Mark: but host languages are different, so we can't say the interpretation is the same for all host languages

Unknown Mark: but host languages are different, so we can't say the interpretation is the same for all host languages [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:51:03 <RalphS> Michael: could we ignore @lang?

Unknown Michael: could we ignore @lang? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:51:13 <RalphS> Mark: we do talk about typed literals and string literals

Unknown Mark: we do talk about typed literals and string literals [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:52:19 <RalphS> Michael: how much is @lang used?

Unknown Michael: how much is @lang used? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:52:57 <RalphS> Mark: we don't want to repeat the long discussion we had over typed literals

Unknown Mark: we don't want to repeat the long discussion we had over typed literals [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:53:41 <RalphS> ... and we don't want to change the host language too much

Unknown RalphS: ... and we don't want to change the host language too much ←

15:54:27 <RalphS> Shane: [only] XHTML1.0 supports both @lang and @xml:lang

Unknown Shane: [only] XHTML1.0 supports both @lang and @xml:lang [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:55:15 <RalphS> Mark: we could specify how we interpret each attribute if it is present in the host language

Unknown Mark: we could specify how we interpret each attribute if it is present in the host language [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:55:25 <RalphS> ... but not require the host language to provide all attributes

Unknown RalphS: ... but not require the host language to provide all attributes ←

15:55:56 <mhausenblas> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/

Unknown mhausenblas: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/ ←

15:56:01 <RalphS> ... may need to specify this abstractly, such as Infoset does

Unknown RalphS: ... may need to specify this abstractly, such as Infoset does ←

15:56:22 <RalphS> ... we're talking about a set of processing rules

Unknown RalphS: ... we're talking about a set of processing rules ←

15:57:42 <RalphS> propose -- ACTION: Mark summarize @lang and @xml:lang discussion and other host language issues in mail

Unknown RalphS: propose -- ACTION: Mark summarize @lang and @xml:lang discussion and other host language issues in mail ←

15:57:55 <RalphS> Mark: e.g. things like relative paths also are affected by the host language

Unknown Mark: e.g. things like relative paths also are affected by the host language [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:58:04 <RalphS> ... we should be honoring the rules of the host language

Unknown RalphS: ... we should be honoring the rules of the host language ←

15:58:11 <RalphS> ... it's a matter of interpretation

Unknown RalphS: ... it's a matter of interpretation ←

15:59:05 <RalphS> ACTION: Mark summarize in mail host language-dependent issues such as @lang and @xml:lang

ACTION: Mark summarize in mail host language-dependent issues such as @lang and @xml:lang ←

16:00:00 <RalphS> Shane: the RDFa Syntax spec should document the core RDFa thing

Unknown Shane: the RDFa Syntax spec should document the core RDFa thing [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

16:00:24 <RalphS> ... and XHTML+RDFa can be another document that describes how RDFa extends XHTML, including any additional interpretation rules

Unknown RalphS: ... and XHTML+RDFa can be another document that describes how RDFa extends XHTML, including any additional interpretation rules ←

16:00:29 <RalphS> ... same for HTML+RDFa

Unknown RalphS: ... same for HTML+RDFa ←

16:00:49 <RalphS> Michael: the XHTML+RDFa document(s) could also be the place to put CURIEs

Unknown Michael: the XHTML+RDFa document(s) could also be the place to put CURIEs [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

16:01:18 <RalphS> Shane: I think CURIEs need to go into the Syntax document, as the CURIE interpretation needs to apply to all of our new attributes

Unknown Shane: I think CURIEs need to go into the Syntax document, as the CURIE interpretation needs to apply to all of our new attributes [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

16:01:31 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←

16:01:31 <RalphS> [adjourned]

Unknown RalphS: [adjourned] ←

16:01:33 <Zakim> -markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: -markbirbeck ←

16:01:34 <Zakim> -Michael_Hausenblas

Scribe problem: the name 'Michael_Hausenblas' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Michael_Hausenblas ←

16:01:35 <Zakim> -Ralph

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ralph ←

16:01:37 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended ←

16:01:38 <Zakim> Attendees were Michael_Hausenblas, Ralph, ShaneM, markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Michael_Hausenblas, Ralph, ShaneM, markbirbeck ←

16:01:45 <RalphS> rrsagent, please draft minutes

Unknown RalphS: rrsagent, please draft minutes ←

16:01:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS ←

16:02:53 <mhausenblas> bye

Unknown mhausenblas: bye ←

16:02:55 <RalphS> regrets: Ben

Scribe problem: the name 'Ben' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

16:03:21 <RalphS> rrsagent, bye

Unknown RalphS: rrsagent, bye ←

16:03:21 <RRSAgent> I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-actions.rdf : ←

16:03:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to recontact implementors Elias, MarkB, triplr and post their implementations to http://esw.w3.org/topic/RDFa#Implementations  [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] [1]

16:03:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-irc#T15-04-10

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-irc#T15-04-10 ←

16:03:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to work through xml:lang issue with Ivan [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] [2]

ACTION: Ben to work through xml:lang issue with Ivan [recorded in ACTION-07]">http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-07] [2] ←

16:03:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-irc#T15-04-22

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-irc#T15-04-22 ←

16:03:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04] [3]

ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in ACTION-04]">http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-04] [3] ←

16:03:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-irc#T15-05-08

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-irc#T15-05-08 ←

16:03:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to sum up @href/@resource everywhere proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action10] [4]

ACTION: Ben to sum up @href/@resource everywhere proposal [recorded in ACTION-10]">http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-10] [4] ←

16:03:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-irc#T15-05-23

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-irc#T15-05-23 ←

16:03:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10] [5]

ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in ACTION-10]">http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-10] [5] ←

16:03:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-irc#T15-05-31

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16:03:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when using @content after October [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [6]

ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when using @content after October [recorded in ACTION-08]">http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-08] [6] ←

16:03:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-irc#T15-05-42

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-irc#T15-05-42 ←

16:03:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael add xml:base issue to tracker [7]

ACTION: Michael add xml:base issue to tracker [7] ←

16:03:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-irc#T15-18-46

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16:03:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael remove excess xmlns: declarations from test cases [8]

ACTION: Michael remove excess xmlns: declarations from test cases [8] ←

16:03:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-irc#T15-32-06

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16:03:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark summarize in mail host language-dependent issues such as @lang and @xml:lang [9]

ACTION: Mark summarize in mail host language-dependent issues such as @lang and @xml:lang [9] ←

16:03:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-rdfa-irc#T15-59-05

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