Meeting Record

Weekly RDFa Teleconference

Minutes of 19 July 2007

Agenda

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0157.html

Seen

Unknown Ben, Unknown Ralph, Unknown RalphS, Unknown Simone, Unknown Steven, Unknown benadida, Unknown markbirbeck, Unknown mhausenblas

Chair

Unknown Ben

Scribe

Unknown Steven

IRC Log

Original

Resolutions

@href and @resource everywhere link
@resource overrides @href as per Ben's propoal link

Topics

Action items
interaction of @instanceof, @about, and @rel
@resource and @href on same element

There are some format problems with the chatlog. Please correct them and reload this page. They are labeled on this page in a red box, like this message.

It may be helpful to

14:52:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-irc ←

14:52:39 <RalphS> Meeting: RDFa

14:52:44 <RalphS> zakim, this will be rdfa

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RalphS: zakim, this will be rdfa ←

14:52:44 <Zakim> ok, RalphS; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, RalphS; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes ←

14:52:50 <RalphS> rrsagent, please make record public

Unknown RalphS: rrsagent, please make record public ←

14:59:24 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started

(No events recorded for 6 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started ←

14:59:31 <Zakim> + +043316876aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +043316876aaaa ←

14:59:42 <RalphS> Agenda:  name: Smith, MacKenzie

14:59:42 <RalphS>      email: kenzie@MIT.EDU

Unknown RalphS: email: kenzie@MIT.EDU ←

14:59:52 <RalphS> oops, strike that

Unknown RalphS: oops, strike that ←

14:59:54 <Steven> lol

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Steven: lol ←

14:59:55 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aaaa is me

Scribe problem: the name 'mhausenblas' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown mhausenblas: Zakim, aaaa is me ←

14:59:55 <Zakim> +mhausenblas; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +mhausenblas; got it ←

15:00:29 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-rdfa-minutes previous 2007-07-12

Unknown RalphS: -> http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-rdfa-minutes previous 2007-07-12 ←

15:01:18 <Zakim> +Ralph

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ralph ←

15:01:55 <RalphS> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0157.html

15:02:23 <Zakim> +Ben

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ben ←

15:02:37 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617

Unknown Steven: zakim, dial steven-617 ←

15:02:37 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←

15:02:39 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←

15:02:39 <Steven> scribe: Steven

(Scribe set to Unknown Steven)

15:04:06 <mhausenblas> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/users/14

Unknown mhausenblas: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/users/14 ←

15:04:42 <RalphS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0157.html

Unknown RalphS: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0157.html ←

15:04:48 <RalphS> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/actions/1

Unknown RalphS: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/actions/1 ←

15:05:52 <benadida> zakim, who is on the call?

Scribe problem: the name 'benadida' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown benadida: zakim, who is on the call? ←

15:05:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas, Ralph, Ben, Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see mhausenblas, Ralph, Ben, Steven ←

15:06:58 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben/Ralph to figure out the RDFa-GRDDL-profile URI (at w3.org) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]

ACTION: Ben/Ralph to figure out the RDFa-GRDDL-profile URI (at w3.org) [recorded in ACTION-15]">http://www.w3.org/2007/06/14-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-15] ←

15:07:02 <RalphS> -- done

Unknown RalphS: -- done ←

15:07:06 <Steven> Topic: Action items

1. Action items

15:07:54 <RalphS> Ralph: I believe my request for http://www.w3.org/ns/rdfa in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0161.html will be approved

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ralph: I believe my request for http://www.w3.org/ns/rdfa in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0161.html will be approved [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:08:03 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

15:08:16 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?

Scribe problem: the name 'markbirbeck' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, code? ←

15:08:16 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck ←

15:08:24 <Simone> Zakim, IPcaller is me

Scribe problem: the name 'Simone' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Simone: Zakim, IPcaller is me ←

15:08:24 <Zakim> +Simone; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Simone; got it ←

15:08:49 <Zakim> +??P24

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P24 ←

15:08:52 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am ?

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, i am ? ←

15:08:52 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +markbirbeck; got it ←

15:09:14 <Steven> [NEW] ACTION: Ben to sum up @href/@resource everywhere proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]

[NEW] ACTION: Ben to sum up @href/@resource everywhere proposal [recorded in ACTION-10]">http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-10] ←

15:09:14 <Steven>

←

15:09:20 <Steven> -- done

-- done ←

15:10:07 <Steven> [PENDING] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]

[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in ACTION-04]">http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-04] ←

15:10:17 <Steven> -- Continues

-- Continues ←

15:10:30 <Steven> ACTION: Ben/Ralph to figure out the RDFa-GRDDL-profile URI (at w3.org) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]

ACTION: Ben/Ralph to figure out the RDFa-GRDDL-profile URI (at w3.org) [recorded in ACTION-15]">http://www.w3.org/2007/06/14-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-15] ←

15:10:33 <Steven> -- done

-- done ←

15:10:49 <Steven> ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10]

ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in ACTION-10]">http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-10] ←

15:10:56 <Steven> -- Continues

-- Continues ←

15:11:07 <Steven> ACTION: Mark get input from Joost on @HREF everywhere [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]

ACTION: Mark get input from Joost on @HREF everywhere [recorded in ACTION-14]">http://www.w3.org/2007/06/21-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-14] ←

15:11:10 <Steven> -- done

-- done ←

15:12:03 <Steven> ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when using @content [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-minutes.html#action25]

ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when using @content [recorded in ACTION-25]">http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-25] ←

15:13:03 <Steven> -- postponed

-- postponed ←

15:13:55 <Steven> ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when using @content after October

ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when using @content after October ←

15:14:09 <Steven> -- continues

-- continues ←

15:14:49 <Steven> opic: @resource and @hrefon same element

Topic: @resource and @href on same element ←

15:14:53 <mhausenblas> q+ to ask on @resource precedence ...

Unknown mhausenblas: q+ to ask on @resource precedence ... ←

15:14:57 <Steven> s/hrefon/href on/

15:15:05 <Steven> Ben: What happens?

Scribe problem: the name 'Ben' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ben: What happens? ←

15:15:23 <mhausenblas> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0110.html

Unknown mhausenblas: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0110.html ←

15:15:58 <mhausenblas> -> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2007Jun/0022.html

Unknown mhausenblas: -> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2007Jun/0022.html ←

15:16:38 <Steven> Mh: How do you decide when something is dereferenceable?

Scribe problem: the name 'Mh' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Mh: How do you decide when something is dereferenceable? ←

15:16:59 <Steven> Ben: URI vs URN?

Unknown Ben: URI vs URN? ←

15:17:21 <Steven> MH: But with http: you don't know if a URI is dereferencable until youtry

Scribe problem: the name 'MH' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown MH: But with http: you don't know if a URI is dereferencable until you try ←

15:17:42 <Steven> s/youtry/you try/

15:17:52 <Steven> Ben: Example?

Unknown Ben: Example? ←

15:18:25 <Steven> MH: [scribe misses]

Unknown MH: [scribe misses] ←

15:18:58 <Steven> Ben: No, the idea of @resource in this proposal is to override href in the same way that @content overrides the real content

Unknown Ben: No, the idea of @resource in this proposal is to override href in the same way that @content overrides the real content ←

15:19:22 <Steven> ... @resource always overrides @href for the semantic purpose

... @resource always overrides @href for the semantic purpose ←

15:20:04 <Steven> Bne: Any objections?

Scribe problem: the name 'Bne' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Bne: Any objections? ←

15:20:10 <Steven> Steven: Sounds mostly harmless

Unknown Steven: Sounds mostly harmless ←

15:20:38 <Steven> Mark: In the case of @content we are thinking of the content providing the rdf:label

Scribe problem: the name 'Mark' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Mark: In the case of @content we are thinking of the content providing the rdf:label ←

15:20:48 <Steven> ... in this case we could use the href in a similar way

... in this case we could use the href in a similar way ←

15:21:17 <Steven> ... in any case the href shouldn't generate a new version of the same triple

... in any case the href shouldn't generate a new version of the same triple ←

15:21:34 <RalphS> q+ to propose an action to make a test case

Unknown RalphS: q+ to propose an action to make a test case ←

15:21:44 <Steven> Ben: Need more time?

Unknown Ben: Need more time? ←

15:21:54 <Steven> Steven: Well I do, but I understand we are under time pressure

Unknown Steven: Well I do, but I understand we are under time pressure ←

15:21:56 <Zakim> mhausenblas, you wanted to ask on @resource precedence ...

Zakim IRC Bot: mhausenblas, you wanted to ask on @resource precedence ... ←

15:22:46 <Zakim> RalphS, you wanted to propose an action to make a test case

Zakim IRC Bot: RalphS, you wanted to propose an action to make a test case ←

15:22:55 <benadida> ACTION: MichaelH to put together test cases for @resource @href on same element

ACTION: MichaelH to put together test cases for @resource @href on same element ←

15:23:22 <Steven> Steven: I suppose my only problem is that RDFa is getting more and more complicated, while it started off so simple

Unknown Steven: I suppose my only problem is that RDFa is getting more and more complicated, while it started off so simple ←

15:24:33 <Steven> Ben: I think the fact that the clickable href may not be the semantic one is a good use case

Unknown Ben: I think the fact that the clickable href may not be the semantic one is a good use case ←

15:24:47 <Steven> .. don't you think the similarity to @content convincing?

.. don't you think the similarity to @content convincing? ←

15:25:07 <Steven> Steven: I have many times needed @content, but never felt the need for @resoruce

Unknown Steven: I have many times needed @content, but never felt the need for @resoruce ←

15:25:12 <RalphS> q+ to say that we may not need to justify a use case

Unknown RalphS: q+ to say that we may not need to justify a use case ←

15:27:09 <RalphS> Simone: RDFa must remain simple to allow simple implementations.

Unknown Simone: RDFa must remain simple to allow simple implementations. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:27:13 <Steven> Simone: [muffled]

Unknown Simone: [muffled] ←

15:27:45 <Steven> Ben: Yes, but we mustn't be *too* simple

Unknown Ben: Yes, but we mustn't be *too* simple ←

15:27:52 <Steven> ... it is a question of balance

... it is a question of balance ←

15:28:22 <Steven> ... href should be mentioned iin the primer in the main section and @resource should be in the advanced section

... href should be mentioned iin the primer in the main section and @resource should be in the advanced section ←

15:28:41 <Simone> Simone: I think we may remain simple, actually people uses Microformats and not other, as You said Ben, we must found a Good balance for simplicity ;)

Unknown Simone: I think we may remain simple, actually people uses Microformats and not other, as You said Ben, we must found a Good balance for simplicity ;) [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Simone ] ←

15:29:29 <Steven> Ralph: I vote for keeping the primer simple, but I don't think we need a use case to justify this feature.

Unknown Ralph: I vote for keeping the primer simple, but I don't think we need a use case to justify this feature. ←

15:31:08 <Steven> ... in the primer

... in the primer ←

15:31:15 <Steven> ... but we do need it in the spec

... but we do need it in the spec ←

15:32:11 <RalphS> Ralph: for interoperability we need to specify the behavior when both attributes are used in the same element

Unknown Ralph: for interoperability we need to specify the behavior when both attributes are used in the same element [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:33:42 <Steven> Steven: I'm worried that RDFa, which used to be describable in a paragraph is getting too complicated

Unknown Steven: I'm worried that RDFa, which used to be describable in a paragraph is getting too complicated ←

15:34:19 <Steven> ... I haven't been convinced of the utility of @resoruce over just @href

... I haven't been convinced of the utility of @resoruce over just @href ←

15:35:03 <RalphS> http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-rdfa-minutes#item02

Unknown RalphS: http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-rdfa-minutes#item02 ←

15:37:01 <Steven> Mark: Well, this is standard rdf stuff, why do you think it is OK to have an href to a non-dereferencable URI?

Unknown Mark: Well, this is standard rdf stuff, why do you think it is OK to have an href to a non-dereferencable URI? ←

15:37:19 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0110.html [RDFa] ISSUE-34: partial resolution to @href everywhere

Unknown RalphS: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0110.html [RDFa] ISSUE-34: partial resolution to @href everywhere ←

15:37:36 <Steven> Steven: I don't agree that it is so cut and dried that there is such a division

Unknown Steven: I don't agree that it is so cut and dried that there is such a division ←

15:37:39 <mhausenblas> +q

Unknown mhausenblas: +q ←

15:37:48 <Zakim> RalphS, you wanted to say that we may not need to justify a use case

Zakim IRC Bot: RalphS, you wanted to say that we may not need to justify a use case ←

15:37:50 <Steven> Mark: Well, is something an information resource or not?

Unknown Mark: Well, is something an information resource or not? ←

15:37:56 <Steven> ... that is a good distinction

... that is a good distinction ←

15:38:02 <RalphS> q+

Unknown RalphS: q+ ←

15:38:15 <Steven> ... otherwise you can't talk about web pages, make statements about webpages

... otherwise you can't talk about web pages, make statements about webpages ←

15:38:42 <Steven> Ben: We have another huge issue to discuss, so we are in a time bind here

Unknown Ben: We have another huge issue to discuss, so we are in a time bind here ←

15:39:04 <Steven> ... I have to ask if you can live with this

... I have to ask if you can live with this ←

15:39:12 <Steven> ... especially since you are going on vacation

... especially since you are going on vacation ←

15:43:07 <Steven> Steven: I hadn't taken the discussion last week as a resolution of the @resource issue

Unknown Steven: I hadn't taken the discussion last week as a resolution of the @resource issue ←

15:43:31 <Steven> MH: Well, if you don't want to use @resource you don't have to use it

Unknown MH: Well, if you don't want to use @resource you don't have to use it ←

15:43:47 <Steven> ... it doesn't make the language more complicated

... it doesn't make the language more complicated ←

15:43:51 <Steven> q+

q+ ←

15:44:24 <Steven> Ben: Well as an author, but not as a consumer

Unknown Ben: Well as an author, but not as a consumer ←

15:45:41 <Steven> Ralph: We are concerned that @href should have effect outside of RDFa, and so is unsafe for us to rely on presentational behaviours, so I supported the addition of @resource

Unknown Ralph: We are concerned that @href should have effect outside of RDFa, and so is unsafe for us to rely on presentational behaviours, so I supported the addition of @resource ←

15:46:22 <Steven> ... I don't agree with Mark's interpretation about different types of URIs being approriate or not for the two attributes

... I don't agree with Mark's interpretation about different types of URIs being approriate or not for the two attributes ←

15:46:42 <Steven> ... I think we need @resource because of href legacy

... I think we need @resource because of href legacy ←

15:47:04 <Steven> ... I agree about avoiding complexity

... I agree about avoiding complexity ←

15:48:34 <RalphS> Steven: looking at the messages in the thread about introducing @href and @resource together, I was shocked at the complexity of the additional rules

Unknown Steven: looking at the messages in the thread about introducing @href and @resource together, I was shocked at the complexity of the additional rules [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:48:54 <RalphS> ... by slow accretion we've increased the complexity

Unknown RalphS: ... by slow accretion we've increased the complexity ←

15:49:13 <RalphS> ... I have a feeling of uneasiness about the addition of new rules

Unknown RalphS: ... I have a feeling of uneasiness about the addition of new rules ←

15:49:56 <RalphS> Ben: the additional rules had to do with the next issue, considering striping, not so much this one

Unknown Ben: the additional rules had to do with the next issue, considering striping, not so much this one [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:51:26 <mhausenblas> q+ to ask Steven about the scope of worry

Unknown mhausenblas: q+ to ask Steven about the scope of worry ←

15:51:43 <Steven> Mark: But I haven't heard a good reason for why you think it is OK to put a URN in an href

Unknown Mark: But I haven't heard a good reason for why you think it is OK to put a URN in an href ←

15:51:52 <Steven> Steven: But I don'; think that that is wrong

Unknown Steven: But I don'; think that that is wrong ←

15:52:04 <Steven> ... a browser could dereference such a thing

... a browser could dereference such a thing ←

15:52:12 <Steven> ... even if current browsers don't

... even if current browsers don't ←

15:52:20 <Steven> ... I can imagine ways it could be done

... I can imagine ways it could be done ←

15:52:53 <Steven> Mark: But the current practice for href is that it points at a dereferencable thing

Unknown Mark: But the current practice for href is that it points at a dereferencable thing ←

15:53:29 <Steven> Ralph: I didn't want this argument today

Unknown Ralph: I didn't want this argument today ←

15:53:43 <Steven> ... but I don't think we need to differentiate between two sorts of URI

... but I don't think we need to differentiate between two sorts of URI ←

15:54:13 <mhausenblas> Zakim, ack me

Unknown mhausenblas: Zakim, ack me ←

15:54:13 <Zakim> mhausenblas, you wanted to ask Steven about the scope of worry

Zakim IRC Bot: mhausenblas, you wanted to ask Steven about the scope of worry ←

15:54:14 <Zakim> I see RalphS, Steven on the speaker queue

Zakim IRC Bot: I see RalphS, Steven on the speaker queue ←

15:54:38 <Steven> MH: Steven, are you worried about complecity for authors or implementors?

Unknown MH: Steven, are you worried about complecity for authors or implementors? ←

15:54:48 <Steven> Steven: Both, but mostly authors

Unknown Steven: Both, but mostly authors ←

15:55:24 <RalphS> Ralph: <a href="urn:..."> doesn't do very much useful in today's browsers but it's not improper.

Unknown Ralph: <a href="urn:..."> doesn't do very much useful in today's browsers but it's not improper. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:55:31 <Steven> Ben: Even if Mark is wrong, the risk is small

Unknown Ben: Even if Mark is wrong, the risk is small ←

15:55:59 <Steven> ... in the future we could delete the feature if we don't need it

... in the future we could delete the feature if we don't need it ←

15:56:00 <markbirbeck> Ralph...it creates a blue link in today's browsers. :)

Unknown markbirbeck: Ralph...it creates a blue link in today's browsers. :) ←

15:56:35 <Steven> Ralph: I'd rather people use href, but I think there is a need for resource

Unknown Ralph: I'd rather people use href, but I think there is a need for resource ←

15:57:23 <Steven> Ben: The reason we think rdfa is better is because we have thought through the edge cases

Unknown Ben: The reason we think rdfa is better is because we have thought through the edge cases ←

15:57:31 <Steven> ... I hope you can live with this Steven

... I hope you can live with this Steven ←

15:57:55 <Steven> ... I agree that it is bigger than it was, but that's because there is a lot of interest from other people

... I agree that it is bigger than it was, but that's because there is a lot of interest from other people ←

15:58:24 <RalphS> Steven: I am willing to live with @resource

Unknown Steven: I am willing to live with @resource [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:58:33 <Steven> Steven: I am willing to say I can live with it, in order to move forward

Unknown Steven: I am willing to say I can live with it, in order to move forward ←

15:58:40 <Steven> (I said the same about @class by the way)

(I said the same about @class by the way) ←

15:58:56 <Steven> RESOLUTION: @href and @resource everywhere

RESOLVED: @href and @resource everywhere ←

15:59:09 <benadida> ... and that @resource overrides @href as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0110.html

Unknown benadida: ... and that @resource overrides @href as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0110.html ←

15:59:20 <Steven> RESOLUTION: @resource overrides @href as per Ben's propoal

RESOLVED: @resource overrides @href as per Ben's propoal ←

15:59:28 <mhausenblas> +1

Unknown mhausenblas: +1 ←

15:59:48 <RalphS> I can live with this too

Unknown RalphS: I can live with this too ←

15:59:49 <Steven> Ben: Steven's worries noted

Unknown Ben: Steven's worries noted ←

16:00:04 <Steven> ... I had to live with nbot using @class, so I know how you feel

... I had to live with not using @class, so I know how you feel ←

16:00:34 <Steven> s/nbot/not/

16:01:01 <RalphS> [telecon extended +15 mins]

Unknown RalphS: [telecon extended +15 mins] ←

16:01:08 <Steven> Topic: interaction of @instanceof, @about, and @rel

2. interaction of @instanceof, @about, and @rel

16:01:20 <Steven> Ben: Whatever @instanceof is called

Unknown Ben: Whatever @instanceof is called ←

16:01:43 <Steven> Ben: instanceof represents rdf:type

Unknown Ben: instanceof represents rdf:type ←

16:01:56 <benadida> <div rel="foaf:knows">

Unknown benadida: <div rel="foaf:knows"> ←

16:02:01 <benadida> <span property="foaf:name">Ben</span>

Unknown benadida: <span property="foaf:name">Ben</span> ←

16:02:02 <benadida> </div>

Unknown benadida: </div> ←

16:02:20 <Steven> Ben: THis is useful for a lot of cases

Unknown Ben: This is useful for a lot of cases ←

16:02:22 <benadida> <div rel="foaf:knows" instanceof="foaf:Person">

Unknown benadida: <div rel="foaf:knows" instanceof="foaf:Person"> ←

16:02:28 <Steven> s/TH/Th/

16:02:52 <benadida> <div about="#bar" rel="foaf:knows" instanceof="foaf:Person">

Unknown benadida: <div about="#bar" rel="foaf:knows" instanceof="foaf:Person"> ←

16:03:06 <benadida> <#bar> foaf:knows _:div0

Unknown benadida: <#bar> foaf:knows _:div0 ←

16:03:14 <Steven> Ben: Without the instanceof here, it would mean the triple above

Unknown Ben: Without the instanceof here, it would mean the triple above ←

16:03:32 <Steven> ... but what does instanceof apply to? bar or bnode

... but what does instanceof apply to? bar or bnode ←

16:03:35 <Steven> ... I think bnode

... I think bnode ←

16:04:20 <Steven> Mark: It feels like it should apply to the @about

Unknown Mark: It feels like it should apply to the @about ←

16:04:36 <benadida> <div about="#bar" rel="foaf:knows">

Unknown benadida: <div about="#bar" rel="foaf:knows"> ←

16:04:43 <benadida> <link rel="rdf:type" href="foaf:Person">

Unknown benadida: <link rel="rdf:type" href="foaf:Person"> ←

16:04:44 <benadida> </div>

Unknown benadida: </div> ←

16:05:11 <RalphS> q+ to say if intuition doesn't match the specification we're creating a long-term problem for ourselves

Unknown RalphS: q+ to say if intuition doesn't match the specification we're creating a long-term problem for ourselves ←

16:05:21 <Steven> q-

q- ←

16:05:53 <Steven> MArk: It would allow you to build up by adding more people to who you know

Unknown Mark: It would allow you to build up by adding more people to who you know ←

16:05:57 <mhausenblas> q+ to ask what happens with additional id?

Unknown mhausenblas: q+ to ask what happens with additional id? ←

16:06:01 <Steven> \s/MS/Ma/

\s/MS/Ma/ ←

16:06:06 <Steven> Ben: So you agree?

Unknown Ben: So you agree? ←

16:06:08 <Steven> Mark: Yes

Unknown Mark: Yes ←

16:06:15 <Zakim> mhausenblas, you wanted to ask what happens with additional id?

Zakim IRC Bot: mhausenblas, you wanted to ask what happens with additional id? ←

16:06:20 <Steven> MH: What about if there is an id?

Unknown MH: What about if there is an id? ←

16:06:24 <Steven> Ben: Not so fast

Unknown Ben: Not so fast ←

16:06:30 <markbirbeck> q+ when we get to @id

Unknown markbirbeck: q+ when we get to @id ←

16:06:32 <mhausenblas> ack me

Unknown mhausenblas: ack me ←

16:06:36 <Zakim> RalphS, you wanted to say if intuition doesn't match the specification we're creating a long-term problem for ourselves

Zakim IRC Bot: RalphS, you wanted to say if intuition doesn't match the specification we're creating a long-term problem for ourselves ←

16:06:43 <markbirbeck> q+

Unknown markbirbeck: q+ ←

16:07:28 <Steven> Ralph: The intuition of people coming fresh to this is important, and they are likely to assume the subject in this case

Unknown Ralph: The intuition of people coming fresh to this is important, and they are likely to assume the subject in this case ←

16:08:01 <Steven> ... we shouldn't try to justify a non-intuitive interpretation

... we shouldn't try to justify a non-intuitive interpretation ←

16:08:20 <Steven> Mark: If you add it progressively, I think it makes sense

Unknown Mark: If you add it progressively, I think it makes sense ←

16:08:38 <Steven> ... maybe @about is going to be less common than we have thought

... maybe @about is going to be less common than we have thought ←

16:09:45 <Steven> ... you could rewrite lots of examples differently, so that href/resource would be more likely

... you could rewrite lots of examples differently, so that href/resource would be more likely ←

16:09:58 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes

Unknown mhausenblas: RRSAgent, draft minutes ←

16:09:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas ←

16:10:16 <Steven> Ben: The complication is that in the past we have been annotating existing content

Unknown Ben: The complication is that in the past we have been annotating existing content ←

16:11:21 <Steven> ... [scribe doesn't understand]

... [scribe doesn't understand] ←

16:12:09 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public

Unknown mhausenblas: RRSAgent, make logs public ←

16:12:29 <Steven> Mark: You mean you think people will use href for the subject a lot

Unknown Mark: You mean you think people will use href for the subject a lot ←

16:12:34 <Steven> Ben: I can't say for sure

Unknown Ben: I can't say for sure ←

16:12:40 <Steven> ... but may be

... but may be ←

16:12:56 <Steven> ... I think striping will happen in RDFa

... I think striping will happen in RDFa ←

16:13:07 <Steven> ... we do need a shorthand for rdf:type

... we do need a shorthand for rdf:type ←

16:13:47 <Steven> ... there is a necessar level of complexity

... there is a necessar level of complexity ←

16:13:52 <benadida> <a about="/photo1" rel="license" href="http://cc.org/licenses/1.0/">foo</a>

Unknown benadida: <a about="/photo1" rel="license" href="http://cc.org/licenses/1.0/">foo</a> ←

16:13:53 <Steven> ... we do need @about

... we do need @about ←

16:14:11 <benadida> <span resource="/photo">

Unknown benadida: <span resource="/photo"> ←

16:14:15 <benadida> <a rel="license" href="...">

Unknown benadida: <a rel="license" href="..."> ←

16:14:16 <benadida> </span>

Unknown benadida: </span> ←

16:14:41 <benadida> <img rel="license" src=...>

Unknown benadida: <img rel="license" src=...> ←

16:14:49 <Steven> Ralph: Does the right thing happen if you use img src=

Unknown Ralph: Does the right thing happen if you use img src= ? ←

16:14:57 <Steven> s/=/= ?/

16:15:12 <Steven> Ben: Yes

Unknown Ben: Yes ←

16:15:32 <Steven> Mark: You mean if the src has /photo ?

Unknown Mark: You mean if the src has /photo ? ←

16:15:42 <Steven> ... then you would need rev

... then you would need rev ←

16:15:46 <mhausenblas> q+

Unknown mhausenblas: q+ ←

16:16:00 <Steven> Ralph: Then I think this is unintuitive

Unknown Ralph: Then I think this is unintuitive ←

16:16:30 <Steven> Ben: There might be complex rules for whacky use, but best practice will always be easy

Unknown Ben: There might be complex rules for whacky use, but best practice will always be easy ←

16:17:10 <Steven> Mark: We have to resolve what happens if @resource and @src coexist on an element

Unknown Mark: We have to resolve what happens if @resource and @src coexist on an element ←

16:18:07 <Steven> Ralph: I need to reread the thread

Unknown Ralph: I need to reread the thread ←

16:18:32 <RalphS> Ralph: I'm concerned about the intuition regarding <img src="/photo1" rel="license" href="http://c.org/licenses/1.0/" /> and the <a about="/photo1"> example

Unknown Ralph: I'm concerned about the intuition regarding <img src="/photo1" rel="license" href="http://c.org/licenses/1.0/" /> and the <a about="/photo1"> example [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

16:18:35 <Steven> Ben: Please send your thoughts Steven before you go on vacation of possible

Unknown Ben: Please send your thoughts Steven before you go on vacation of possible ←

16:18:55 <mhausenblas> Please use -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa/ProposedStructure as an example repository

Unknown mhausenblas: Please use -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa/ProposedStructure as an example repository ←

16:18:58 <Steven> ... Mark, we need to come up with a consistent story on this

... Mark, we need to come up with a consistent story on this ←

16:19:26 <Zakim> -Simone

Zakim IRC Bot: -Simone ←

16:19:27 <RalphS> next meeting: 26 July

Unknown RalphS: next meeting: 26 July ←

16:19:28 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←

16:19:28 <Zakim> -markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: -markbirbeck ←

16:19:29 <Zakim> -Ben

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ben ←

16:19:32 <Steven> [adjourn]

[adjourn] ←

16:19:33 <Zakim> -mhausenblas

Zakim IRC Bot: -mhausenblas ←

16:19:34 <Zakim> -Ralph

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ralph ←

16:19:35 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended ←

16:19:36 <Zakim> Attendees were +043316876aaaa, mhausenblas, Ralph, Ben, Steven, Simone, markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +043316876aaaa, mhausenblas, Ralph, Ben, Steven, Simone, markbirbeck ←

16:19:40 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

16:19:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-minutes.html Steven ←

16:19:58 <Steven> Meeting: Weekly RDFa Teleconference

16:20:04 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

16:20:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-minutes.html Steven ←

16:20:12 <Steven> Chair: Ben

Scribe problem: the name 'Ben' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

16:20:41 <Steven> Yes, that's a RRSAgent bug

Yes, that's a RRSAgent bug ←

16:20:46 <Steven> you are still listed

you are still listed ←

created using i/opic: @resource/Topic: @resource and @href on same element/

3. @resource and @href on same element

16:21:19 <Steven> s/opic: @resource/Topic: @resource/

16:21:24 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

16:21:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-minutes.html Steven ←

16:22:26 <Steven> s/MArk/Mark/

16:22:42 <Steven> thanks!

thanks! ←

16:23:00 <mhausenblas> take care, bye

Unknown mhausenblas: take care, bye ←

16:26:39 <Steven> s/Meeting: RDFa/Meeting: Weekly RDFa Teleconference/

16:28:00 <Steven> s/^.Topic/Topic/

s/^.Topic/Topic/ (warning: replacement failed) ←

16:28:05 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

16:28:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-minutes.html Steven ←

16:29:48 <Steven> i/opic: @resource/Topic: @resource and @href on same element/

16:29:53 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

16:29:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-minutes.html Steven ←

16:58:27 <RalphS> zakim, bye

(No events recorded for 28 minutes)

Unknown RalphS: zakim, bye ←

16:59:01 <RalphS> rrsagent, bye

Unknown RalphS: rrsagent, bye ←

16:59:01 <RRSAgent> I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-actions.rdf : ←

16:59:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben/Ralph to figure out the RDFa-GRDDL-profile URI (at w3.org) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action15] [1]

ACTION: Ben/Ralph to figure out the RDFa-GRDDL-profile URI (at w3.org) [recorded in ACTION-15]">http://www.w3.org/2007/06/14-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-15] [1] ←

16:59:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-irc#T15-06-58

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-irc#T15-06-58 ←

16:59:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben/Ralph to figure out the RDFa-GRDDL-profile URI (at w3.org) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action15] [2]

ACTION: Ben/Ralph to figure out the RDFa-GRDDL-profile URI (at w3.org) [recorded in ACTION-15]">http://www.w3.org/2007/06/14-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-15] [2] ←

16:59:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-irc#T15-10-30

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-irc#T15-10-30 ←

16:59:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10] [3]

ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in ACTION-10]">http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-10] [3] ←

16:59:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-irc#T15-10-49

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-irc#T15-10-49 ←

16:59:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark get input from Joost on @HREF everywhere [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action14] [4]

ACTION: Mark get input from Joost on @HREF everywhere [recorded in ACTION-14]">http://www.w3.org/2007/06/21-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-14] [4] ←

16:59:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-irc#T15-11-07

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-irc#T15-11-07 ←

16:59:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when using @content [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-minutes.html#action25] [5]

ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when using @content [recorded in ACTION-25]">http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-25] [5] ←

16:59:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-irc#T15-12-03

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-irc#T15-12-03 ←

16:59:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when using @content after October [6]

ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when using @content after October [6] ←

16:59:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-irc#T15-13-55

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-irc#T15-13-55 ←

16:59:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane investigate the @xml:base validation issue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] [7]

ACTION: Shane investigate the @xml:base validation issue [recorded in ACTION-02]">http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-02] [7] ←

16:59:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-irc#T15-14-04

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-irc#T15-14-04 ←

16:59:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: MichaelH to put together test cases for @resource @href on same element [8]

ACTION: MichaelH to put together test cases for @resource @href on same element [8] ←

16:59:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-irc#T15-22-55

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-irc#T15-22-55 ←

Formatted by CommonScribe