Meeting Record

RDFa Task Force

Minutes of 05 July 2007

Agenda

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0009

Seen

Unknown Ben, Unknown Ralph, Unknown RalphS, Unknown ShaneM, Unknown Simone, Unknown Steven, Unknown benadida, Unknown markbirbeck

Chair

Unknown Ben

Scribe

Unknown Ralph

IRC Log

Original

Resolutions

None.

Topics

Action Summary
METAs and LINKs in the body: should we get rid of them?
@about
CURIEs vs. QNames: what to do for XHTML1.1+RDFa?

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14:56:28 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc ←

14:56:34 <Steven> zakim, this will be rdfa

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Steven: zakim, this will be rdfa ←

14:56:34 <Zakim> ok, Steven; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes ←

14:56:42 <Steven> rrsagent, make log public

Unknown Steven: rrsagent, make log public ←

14:59:55 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started ←

15:00:04 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←

15:00:13 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0009

15:00:23 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0009

Unknown Steven: Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0009 ←

15:00:29 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-work

Unknown Steven: zakim, dial steven-work ←

15:00:29 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←

15:00:31 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←

15:04:01 <Zakim> +Ralph

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ralph ←

15:04:29 <RalphS> Meeting: RDFa Task Force

15:05:27 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2007-06-28

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RalphS: -> http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2007-06-28 ←

15:06:15 <Zakim> +??P19

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P19 ←

15:06:29 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am ?

Scribe problem: the name 'markbirbeck' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, i am ? ←

15:06:29 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +markbirbeck; got it ←

15:07:05 <Zakim> + +1.617.395.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.617.395.aaaa ←

15:07:11 <RalphS> zakim, aaaa is Ben

Unknown RalphS: zakim, aaaa is Ben ←

15:07:11 <Zakim> +Ben; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ben; got it ←

15:08:03 <RalphS> Chair: Ben

Scribe problem: the name 'Ben' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

15:08:22 <benadida> zakim, who's on the phone

Scribe problem: the name 'benadida' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown benadida: zakim, who's on the phone ←

15:08:22 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's on the phone', benadida

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who's on the phone', benadida ←

15:08:24 <Steven> zakim, who is here?

Unknown Steven: zakim, who is here? ←

15:08:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see ShaneM, Steven, Ralph, markbirbeck, Ben

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ShaneM, Steven, Ralph, markbirbeck, Ben ←

15:08:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see benadida, kwijibo, RRSAgent, Zakim, RalphS, ShaneM, Steven, markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see benadida, kwijibo, RRSAgent, Zakim, RalphS, ShaneM, Steven, markbirbeck ←

15:09:49 <RalphS> Topic: Action Summary

1. Action Summary

15:10:21 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben make a scribe schedule

ACTION: Ben make a scribe schedule ←

15:10:32 <RalphS> scribe: Ralph

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

(Scribe set to Unknown Ralph)

15:10:54 <RalphS> ACTION: Michael add a test case that test for omitted @about [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]

ACTION: Michael add a test case that test for omitted @about [recorded in ACTION-04]">http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-04] ←

15:10:57 <RalphS> -- continues

Unknown RalphS: -- continues ←

15:11:04 <RalphS> ACTION: Michael correct TC15 title [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action05]

ACTION: Michael correct TC15 title [recorded in ACTION-05]">http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-05] ←

15:11:05 <RalphS> -- continues

Unknown RalphS: -- continues ←

15:11:12 <RalphS> ACTION: Michael create a .htaccess hack to make the test case identifiers resolve to something useful [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]

ACTION: Michael create a .htaccess hack to make the test case identifiers resolve to something useful [recorded in ACTION-01]">http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-01] ←

15:11:13 <RalphS> -- continues

Unknown RalphS: -- continues ←

15:11:19 <RalphS> ACTION: Shane investigate the @xml:base validation issue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]

ACTION: Shane investigate the @xml:base validation issue [recorded in ACTION-02]">http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-02] ←

15:11:30 <RalphS> Shane: this appears to be harder than I thought

Scribe problem: the name 'Shane' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Shane: this appears to be harder than I thought [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:11:46 <RalphS> Ben: we expect xml:base to be used in HEAD ?

Scribe problem: the name 'Ben' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ben: we expect xml:base to be used in HEAD ? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:12:03 <RalphS> ... to set the CURIE base URI?

Unknown RalphS: ... to set the CURIE base URI? ←

15:12:24 <RalphS> Mark: yes, it should work with HTML base

Scribe problem: the name 'Mark' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Mark: yes, it should work with HTML base [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:12:29 <RalphS> -- continues

Unknown RalphS: -- continues ←

15:12:38 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Shane to correct DTD to permit RDFa attributes on the head element. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]

Unknown RalphS: [DONE] ACTION: Shane to correct DTD to permit RDFa attributes on the head element. [recorded in ACTION-03]">http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-03] ←

15:12:50 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Ben get further input from Creative Commons on @RESOURCE and @HREF [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]

Unknown RalphS: [DONE] ACTION: Ben get further input from Creative Commons on @RESOURCE and @HREF [recorded in ACTION-15]">http://www.w3.org/2007/06/21-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-15] ←

15:13:46 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jun/0147.html the Creative Commons take on @href everywhere [Ben 2007-06-27]

Unknown RalphS: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jun/0147.html the Creative Commons take on @href everywhere [Ben 2007-06-27] ←

15:13:56 <markbirbeck> zakim, q+

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, q+ ←

15:13:56 <Zakim> I see markbirbeck on the speaker queue

Zakim IRC Bot: I see markbirbeck on the speaker queue ←

15:14:02 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben to figure out the RDFa-GRDDL-profile URI (at w3.org) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]

ACTION: Ben to figure out the RDFa-GRDDL-profile URI (at w3.org) [recorded in ACTION-15]">http://www.w3.org/2007/06/14-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-15] ←

15:14:04 <RalphS> -- continues

Unknown RalphS: -- continues ←

15:14:14 <RalphS> Ralph: I'll take this one over from Ben

Unknown Ralph: I'll take this one over from Ben [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:14:47 <RalphS> Mark: let's put @href everywhere on our syntax agenda; what does it mean for HTML ?

Unknown Mark: let's put @xml:base everywhere on our syntax agenda; what does it mean for HTML ? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:14:56 <RalphS> ... it's no longer XHTML2-ish

Unknown RalphS: ... it's no longer XHTML2-ish ←

15:15:08 <RalphS> ... one possibility is to defer @href everywhere to a future version

Unknown RalphS: ... one possibility is to defer @xml:base everywhere to a future version ←

15:15:25 <RalphS> Ben: I'll add this to issues list

Unknown Ben: I'll add this to issues list [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:15:31 <markbirbeck> s/@href/@xml:base/

15:15:43 <Zakim> +??P24

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P24 ←

15:15:56 <RalphS> s/put @href/put @xml:base/

15:16:05 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]

ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in ACTION-04]">http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-04] ←

15:16:07 <RalphS> -- continues

Unknown RalphS: -- continues ←

15:16:07 <Simone> Zakim, ??P24 is me

Scribe problem: the name 'Simone' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Simone: Zakim, ??P24 is me ←

15:16:07 <Zakim> +Simone; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Simone; got it ←

15:16:13 <RalphS> ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10]

ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in ACTION-10]">http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-10] ←

15:16:14 <RalphS> -- continues

Unknown RalphS: -- continues ←

15:16:24 <RalphS> ACTION: Mark get input from Joost on @HREF everywhere [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]

ACTION: Mark get input from Joost on @HREF everywhere [recorded in ACTION-14]">http://www.w3.org/2007/06/21-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-14] ←

15:16:25 <RalphS> -- continues

Unknown RalphS: -- continues ←

15:16:34 <RalphS> Mark: I sent email to Joost today

Unknown Mark: I sent email to Joost today [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:16:46 <RalphS> ACTION: Mark produce more examples of applicability of n-ary relations from IPTC documents [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/23-htmltf-minutes.html#action08]

ACTION: Mark produce more examples of applicability of n-ary relations from IPTC documents [recorded in ACTION-08]">http://www.w3.org/2006/10/23-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-08] ←

15:17:06 <RalphS> Mark: this is part of the reification discussion

Unknown Mark: this is part of the reification discussion [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:17:20 <RalphS> ... let's defer it to the future

Unknown RalphS: ... let's defer it to the future ←

15:17:41 <RalphS> -- withdrawn

Unknown RalphS: -- withdrawn ←

15:18:21 <RalphS> ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when using @content [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-minutes.html#action25]

ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when using @content [recorded in ACTION-25]">http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-25] ←

15:18:44 <RalphS> -- continues

Unknown RalphS: -- continues ←

15:19:02 <RalphS> Mark: this is more problematic than I first though too

Unknown Mark: this is more problematic than I first though too [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:19:10 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Steven to put together sample XHTML2 doc with all mime type, etc. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]

Unknown RalphS: [DONE] ACTION: Steven to put together sample XHTML2 doc with all mime type, etc. [recorded in ACTION-01]">http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-01] ←

15:19:43 <RalphS> Topic: METAs and LINKs in the body: should we get rid of them?

2. METAs and LINKs in the body: should we get rid of them?

15:20:09 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0007.html [RDFa] ISSUE 9: META and LINK in the body

Unknown RalphS: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0007.html [RDFa] ISSUE-9: META and LINK in the body ←

15:20:37 <RalphS> Ben: if we remove LINK in the body then it feels to me we may need to have @href and @resource everywhere

Unknown Ben: if we remove LINK in the body then it feels to me we may need to have @href and @resource everywhere [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:20:59 <RalphS> Steven: I think it's a bad idea to depend on META and LINK in the body

Unknown Steven: I think it's a bad idea to depend on META and LINK in the body [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:21:15 <RalphS> ... everything that depends on this behavior we should find a different way to do

Unknown RalphS: ... everything that depends on this behavior we should find a different way to do ←

15:22:02 <RalphS> Ben: if served as html+xml then FireFox no longer repositions these to HEAD

Unknown Ben: if served as html+xml then FireFox no longer repositions these to HEAD [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:22:11 <RalphS> ... IE continues to do this, however

Unknown RalphS: ... IE continues to do this, however ←

15:22:44 <RalphS> Ralph: this feels to me as something where we should not step on the base language

Unknown Ralph: this feels to me as something where we should not step on the base language [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:23:00 <RalphS> Shane: we have changed the content model of HEAD by saying META and LINK both accept content

Unknown Shane: we have changed the content model of HEAD by saying META and LINK both accept content [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:23:04 <benadida> no, simone, we don't hear you

Unknown benadida: no, simone, we don't hear you ←

15:23:07 <RalphS> Steven: yes, for XHTML2, and this is a good thing

Unknown Steven: yes, for XHTML2, and this is a good thing [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:23:25 <RalphS> Mark: IE does not move LINK and META in HTML mode

Unknown Mark: IE does not move LINK and META in HTML mode [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:23:26 <Steven> zakim, who is here?

Unknown Steven: zakim, who is here? ←

15:23:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see ShaneM, Steven, Ralph, markbirbeck, Ben, Simone

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ShaneM, Steven, Ralph, markbirbeck, Ben, Simone ←

15:23:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see Simone, benadida, kwijibo, RRSAgent, Zakim, RalphS, ShaneM, Steven, markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Simone, benadida, kwijibo, RRSAgent, Zakim, RalphS, ShaneM, Steven, markbirbeck ←

15:23:45 <RalphS> ... what it does do is treat META as a straight element with open and close tags

Unknown RalphS: ... what it does do is treat META as a straight element with open and close tags ←

15:24:04 <RalphS> ... <META>text</META> is treated as 3 sibling nodes by IE

Unknown RalphS: ... <META>text</META> is treated as 3 sibling nodes by IE ←

15:24:18 <RalphS> ... so even if we do allow META in the body there is quirky parsing

Unknown RalphS: ... so even if we do allow META in the body there is quirky parsing ←

15:24:32 <RalphS> ... I've made this work in my parser but it is quirky

Unknown RalphS: ... I've made this work in my parser but it is quirky ←

15:25:11 <Zakim> -Simone

Zakim IRC Bot: -Simone ←

15:25:27 <RalphS> Shane: my change to HEAD content model is for XHTML1.1 -- let's not discuss XHTML2 here

Unknown Shane: my change to HEAD content model is for XHTML1.1 -- let's not discuss XHTML2 here [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:25:55 <RalphS> Ben: should we change back to original content models for LINK and META and just add @property ?

Unknown Ben: should we change back to original content models for LINK and META and just add @property ? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:26:34 <RalphS> Steven: I think it's good to permit LINK and META in body for XHTML2 but not for XHTML1.1

Unknown Steven: I think it's good to permit LINK and META in body for XHTML2 but not for XHTML1.1 [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:26:49 <RalphS> Ben: what about content of LINK and META?  This doesn't seem very useful in this case

Unknown Ben: what about content of LINK and META? This doesn't seem very useful in this case [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:27:05 <RalphS> Shane: I don't understand what problem this was intended to solve, but LINK can contain LINK

Unknown Shane: I don't understand what problem this was intended to solve, but LINK can contain LINK [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:27:40 <RalphS> Ben: since we're deferring reification, maybe we can undo our changes to LINK and META content model

Unknown Ben: since we're deferring reification, maybe we can undo our changes to LINK and META content model [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:27:54 <RalphS> ... we had a use case from Bob Ducharme with nested LINKs

Unknown RalphS: ... we had a use case from Bob Ducharme with nested LINKs ←

15:28:05 <RalphS> ... we could say this feature will only be available in XHTML2

Unknown RalphS: ... we could say this feature will only be available in XHTML2 ←

15:28:48 <RalphS> Steven: if you want to put something in the HEAD and have marked-up content in META you couldn't do this

Unknown Steven: if you want to put something in the HEAD and have marked-up content in META you couldn't do this [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:29:16 <RalphS> Mark: Bob's example was the IPTC use case of wanting to say who made an assertion; this is reificiation

Unknown Mark: Bob's example was the IPTC use case of wanting to say who made an assertion; this is reificiation [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:29:37 <RalphS> ... the other use case for content in META is XMLLiteral

Unknown RalphS: ... the other use case for content in META is XMLLiteral ←

15:29:51 <RalphS> ... since attribute content can't contain markup

Unknown RalphS: ... since attribute content can't contain markup ←

15:31:51 <RalphS> PROPOSE: LINK and META appear only in HEAD with no changes to content model

Scribe problem: the name 'PROPOSE' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown PROPOSE: LINK and META appear only in HEAD with no changes to content model [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:31:55 <RalphS> [no objections]

Unknown RalphS: [no objections] ←

15:32:04 <benadida> action: Ben to send to mailing list PROPOSE: LINK and META appear only in HEAD with no changes to content model

ACTION: Ben to send to mailing list PROPOSE: LINK and META appear only in HEAD with no changes to content model ←

15:32:34 <RalphS> Shane: I think this allows us to remove the whole "metainformation module" part of the spec

Unknown Shane: I think this allows us to remove the whole "metainformation module" part of the spec [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:32:51 <RalphS> Topic: @about

3. @about

15:33:05 <RalphS> Steven: we say 'use the closest @about when generating the subject'

Unknown Steven: we say 'use the closest @about when generating the subject' [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:33:14 <RalphS> ... with special rules for META and LINK

Unknown RalphS: ... with special rules for META and LINK ←

15:33:20 <RalphS> ... I guess those special rules now go away?

Unknown RalphS: ... I guess those special rules now go away? ←

15:33:29 <RalphS> Ben: but we still want bnodes

Unknown Ben: but we still want bnodes [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:33:41 <RalphS> ... so some of the use cases are replaced by @rel without @href

Unknown RalphS: ... so some of the use cases are replaced by @rel without @href ←

15:34:05 <RalphS> Steven: this takes care of object, but not subject

Unknown Steven: this takes care of object, but not subject [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:34:09 <RalphS> Ben: can do the same with SPAN

Unknown Ben: can do the same with SPAN [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:34:19 <benadida> <div id="foo" rel="foaf:knows">

Unknown benadida: <div id="foo" rel="foaf:knows"> ←

15:34:25 <benadida> <span property="foaf:name">Ben</span>

Unknown benadida: <span property="foaf:name">Ben</span> ←

15:34:27 <benadida> </div>

Unknown benadida: </div> ←

15:35:25 <RalphS> Ben: in this example, @rel sets the subject because there's no @href

Unknown Ben: in this example, @rel sets the subject because there's no @href [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:35:36 <benadida> <div about="#bar">

Unknown benadida: <div about="#bar"> ←

15:35:40 <benadida> <div id="foo" rel="foaf:knows">

Unknown benadida: <div id="foo" rel="foaf:knows"> ←

15:35:45 <benadida> <span property="foaf:name">Ben</span>

Unknown benadida: <span property="foaf:name">Ben</span> ←

15:35:47 <benadida> </div>

Unknown benadida: </div> ←

15:35:48 <benadida> </div>

Unknown benadida: </div> ←

15:35:59 <benadida> <#bar> foaf:knows <#foo>

Unknown benadida: <#bar> foaf:knows <#foo> ←

15:36:04 <RalphS> Ben: this example means ...

Unknown Ben: this example means ... [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:36:12 <benadida> <#foo> foaf:name "Ben"

Unknown benadida: <#foo> foaf:name "Ben" ←

15:37:04 <RalphS> ... @rel without @href makes that node be the subject; it would be a bnode if it didn't have @id

Unknown RalphS: ... @rel without @href makes that node be the subject; it would be a bnode if it didn't have @id ←

15:37:30 <RalphS> ... later we can talk about what it means if the DIV had @href

Unknown RalphS: ... later we can talk about what it means if the DIV had @href ←

15:37:41 <RalphS> Mark: agree with that interpretation

Unknown Mark: agree with that interpretation [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:38:00 <RalphS> Ben: so this handles most of the cases where we used META in BODY

Unknown Ben: so this handles most of the cases where we used META in BODY [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:38:38 <RalphS> ... it becomes more important to relate the bnode to the document

Unknown RalphS: ... it becomes more important to relate the bnode to the document ←

15:38:48 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben summarize the state of @rel everywhere

ACTION: Ben summarize the state of @rel everywhere ←

15:40:17 <benadida> simone, are you on the call?

Unknown benadida: simone, are you on the call? ←

15:40:29 <Steven> zakim, who is here?

Unknown Steven: zakim, who is here? ←

15:40:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see ShaneM, Steven, Ralph, markbirbeck, Ben

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ShaneM, Steven, Ralph, markbirbeck, Ben ←

15:40:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see Simone, benadida, kwijibo, RRSAgent, Zakim, RalphS, ShaneM, Steven, markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Simone, benadida, kwijibo, RRSAgent, Zakim, RalphS, ShaneM, Steven, markbirbeck ←

15:40:55 <benadida> can you type out your comment?

Unknown benadida: can you type out your comment? ←

15:41:26 <RalphS> simone, ok to put "I prefer to not use META and LINK an all, I like approach of iRDF (fromer eRDF), so META is an EMPTY element and may create problems" into the record?

Unknown RalphS: simone, ok to put "I prefer to not use META and LINK an all, I like approach of iRDF (fromer eRDF), so META is an EMPTY element and may create problems" into the record? ←

15:41:36 <RalphS> oops

Unknown RalphS: oops ←

15:41:39 <RalphS> I guess I just did :)

Unknown RalphS: I guess I just did :) ←

15:41:53 <RalphS> Simone: I prefer to not use META and LINK an all, I like approach of iRDF (fromer eRDF), so META is an EMPTY element and may create problems

Unknown Simone: I prefer to not use META and LINK an all, I like approach of iRDF (fromer eRDF), so META is an EMPTY element and may create problems [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:42:12 <RalphS> Topic: CURIEs vs. QNames: what to do for XHTML1.1+RDFa?

4. CURIEs vs. QNames: what to do for XHTML1.1+RDFa?

15:42:50 <markbirbeck> zakim, q+

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, q+ ←

15:42:50 <Zakim> I see markbirbeck on the speaker queue

Zakim IRC Bot: I see markbirbeck on the speaker queue ←

15:42:51 <RalphS> Ben: as Shane points out, since CURIE spec is not done it's dangerous for RDFa to have it as a dependency

Unknown Ben: as Shane points out, since CURIE spec is not done it's dangerous for RDFa to have it as a dependency [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:43:22 <RalphS> Mark: the choices are not CURIE vs QName but CURIE vs. something unspecified

Unknown Mark: the choices are not CURIE vs QName but CURIE vs. something unspecified [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:43:35 <RalphS> ... look at SPARQL and RULEML

Unknown RalphS: ... look at SPARQL and RULEML ←

15:43:58 <RalphS> ... there is a tendency towards using the [syntactic] concept of QName but without the restrictions

Unknown RalphS: ... there is a tendency towards using the [syntactic] concept of QName but without the restrictions ←

15:44:16 <RalphS> ... we either do the same thing; looks like a QName but new rules for how they're defined

Unknown RalphS: ... we either do the same thing; looks like a QName but new rules for how they're defined ←

15:44:29 <RalphS> ... I don't like to continue the misuse of QName

Unknown RalphS: ... I don't like to continue the misuse of QName ←

15:44:51 <RalphS> ... QName is for defining elements and attributes in XML markup

Unknown RalphS: ... QName is for defining elements and attributes in XML markup ←

15:44:53 <benadida> cc:attributionName

Scribe problem: the name 'cc' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown cc: attributionName [ Scribe Assist by Unknown benadida ] ←

15:45:49 <RalphS> Ben: cc:attributionName can be expressed in RDF/XML

Unknown Ben: cc:attributionName can be expressed in RDF/XML [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:46:03 <RalphS> ... is this not really a QName, just looks like one?

Unknown RalphS: ... is this not really a QName, just looks like one? ←

15:46:26 <RalphS> Mark: it conforms to the syntax but out of context it can't be a QName, because the purpose of QName is to define an element

Unknown Mark: it conforms to the syntax but out of context it can't be a QName, because the purpose of QName is to define an element [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:47:03 <RalphS> ... so when it's used as a predicate in RDF/XML it's fine because it _is_ defining an element

Unknown RalphS: ... so when it's used as a predicate in RDF/XML it's fine because it _is_ defining an element ←

15:47:48 <RalphS> Ben: can we punt to SPARQL and N3 and simply say we're using the syntax the same way they are?  And in XHTML2 clean it up by defining CURIE

Unknown Ben: can we punt to SPARQL and N3 and simply say we're using the syntax the same way they are? And in XHTML2 clean it up by defining CURIE [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:48:08 <RalphS> ... we can say we'll use the same inconsistent view that others have

Unknown RalphS: ... we can say we'll use the same inconsistent view that others have ←

15:48:18 <RalphS> Mark: but SPARQL doesn't refer to QName

Unknown Mark: but SPARQL doesn't refer to QName [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:49:22 <markbirbeck> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/#QSynIRI

Unknown markbirbeck: http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/#QSynIRI ←

15:50:38 <RalphS> Steven: SPARQL calls these "prefixed names", not QNames

Unknown Steven: SPARQL calls these "prefixed names", not QNames [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:51:05 <RalphS> Mark: and there's a big red box noting that not all prefixed names are XML QNames

Unknown Mark: and there's a big red box noting that not all prefixed names are XML QNames [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:51:21 <RalphS> Ben: will we get into trouble by using @xmlns to define the prefixes?

Unknown Ben: will we get into trouble by using @xmlns to define the prefixes? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:51:33 <RalphS> Mark: this has been talked about a lot

Unknown Mark: this has been talked about a lot [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:51:49 <RalphS> ... one suggestion is to say that @xmlns is only one way to define prefixes

Unknown RalphS: ... one suggestion is to say that @xmlns is only one way to define prefixes ←

15:52:28 <RalphS> ... could use a triple to declare a prefix; then LINK suffices

Unknown RalphS: ... could use a triple to declare a prefix; then LINK suffices ←

15:52:49 <ShaneM>  (rel = curiePrefix)

Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ShaneM: (rel = curiePrefix) ←

15:52:50 <RalphS> ... alternative is to include @xmlns in our vocabulary

Unknown RalphS: ... alternative is to include @xmlns in our vocabulary ←

15:53:26 <RalphS> ... or, further, say 'given these attribute values, load these triples'; e.g. well-known prefixes

Unknown RalphS: ... or, further, say 'given these attribute values, load these triples'; e.g. well-known prefixes ←

15:53:45 <RalphS> Ben: I don't like the third option as it doesn't allow people to include arbitrary RDF

Unknown Ben: I don't like the third option as it doesn't allow people to include arbitrary RDF vocabularies [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:53:59 <RalphS> s/RDF/RDF vocabularies/

15:54:31 <RalphS> Steven: the triple relation would be between a string and a URI, right?  so it would have to be done with META and not LINK

Unknown Steven: the triple relation would be between a string and a URI, right? so it would have to be done with META and not LINK [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:54:45 <Steven> <meta about="http://ns" property="prefix" content="my"/>

Unknown Steven: <meta about="http://ns" property="prefix" content="my"/> ←

15:55:03 <RalphS> Mark: I agree with Steven

Unknown Mark: I agree with Steven [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:55:37 <RalphS> Ben: I'm concerned about using a triple for this because the declaration should only be local to the document

Unknown Ben: I'm concerned about using a triple for this because the declaration should only be local to the document [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:56:19 <RalphS> Mark: the point is that we can't simply refer to the SPARQL spec because they don't define their term

Unknown Mark: the point is that we can't simply refer to the SPARQL spec because they don't define their term [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:56:27 <RalphS> Ben: but we can use their wording

Unknown Ben: but we can use their wording [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:57:08 <RalphS> ... to avoid arguments from opponents of CURIEs

Unknown RalphS: ... to avoid arguments from opponents of CURIEs ←

15:57:20 <RalphS> Mark: the SPARQL spec effectively defines CURIEs

Unknown Mark: the SPARQL spec effectively defines CURIEs [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:57:39 <RalphS> Steven: so we could just say that we're using p-names from SPARQL

Unknown Steven: so we could just say that we're using p-names from SPARQL [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:58:02 <RalphS> Mark: but SPARQL has only created its p-name for use within its own context

Unknown Mark: but SPARQL has only created its p-name for use within its own context [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:58:13 <RalphS> ... CURIE is meant to resolve this all over

Unknown RalphS: ... CURIE is meant to resolve this all over ←

15:58:21 <ShaneM>  While there is risk in depending upon another spec, the XHTML 2 working group can complete the CURIE spec now.

Unknown ShaneM: While there is risk in depending upon another spec, the XHTML 2 working group can complete the CURIE spec now. ←

15:58:27 <RalphS> Ben: but we've gotten push-back on CURIEs, including from the Director

Unknown Ben: but we've gotten push-back on CURIEs, including from the Director [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

15:59:07 <RalphS> ... since SPARQL is nearly complete, it would be hard for people to fight us if we do the same as SPARQL

Unknown RalphS: ... since SPARQL is nearly complete, it would be hard for people to fight us if we do the same as SPARQL ←

16:00:02 <RalphS> Mark: looking at the SPARQL spec, we're a lot closer to agreement on CURIE that we were at the time of the Edinburgh AC meeting

Unknown Mark: looking at the SPARQL spec, we're a lot closer to agreement on CURIE that we were at the time of the Edinburgh AC meeting [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

16:00:23 <RalphS> Ben: why should we take on this fight?

Unknown Ben: why should we take on this fight? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

16:00:50 <RalphS> Mark: we can't refer normatively to [what SPARQL] does just as we can't currently refer normatively to a CURIE spec

Unknown Mark: we can't refer normatively to [what SPARQL] does just as we can't currently refer normatively to a CURIE spec [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

16:01:21 <RalphS> Ben: we'll have a bigger fight on our hands if we cite CURIE

Unknown Ben: we'll have a bigger fight on our hands if we cite CURIE [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

16:01:49 <RalphS> Mark: I suggest we take the text and BNF from the CURIE document and drop it in

Unknown Mark: I suggest we take the text and BNF from the CURIE document and drop it in [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ] ←

16:02:10 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←

16:02:14 <RalphS> ... don't use the name CURIE

Unknown RalphS: ... don't use the name CURIE ←

16:02:15 <Zakim> -markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: -markbirbeck ←

16:02:19 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←

16:02:19 <RalphS> [adjourned]

Unknown RalphS: [adjourned] ←

16:20:27 <Zakim> -Ralph

(No events recorded for 18 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ralph ←

16:20:29 <Zakim> -Ben

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ben ←

16:20:31 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended ←

16:20:32 <Zakim> Attendees were ShaneM, Steven, Ralph, markbirbeck, +1.617.395.aaaa, Ben, Simone

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were ShaneM, Steven, Ralph, markbirbeck, +1.617.395.aaaa, Ben, Simone ←

16:20:38 <RalphS> rrsagent, draft minutes

Unknown RalphS: rrsagent, draft minutes ←

16:20:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS ←

16:22:00 <RalphS> rrsagent, bye

Unknown RalphS: rrsagent, bye ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent> I see 13 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 13 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-actions.rdf : ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben make a scribe schedule [1]

ACTION: Ben make a scribe schedule [1] ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-10-21

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-10-21 ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael add a test case that test for omitted @about [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action04] [2]

ACTION: Michael add a test case that test for omitted @about [recorded in ACTION-04]">http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-04] [2] ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-10-54

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-10-54 ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael correct TC15 title [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action05] [3]

ACTION: Michael correct TC15 title [recorded in ACTION-05]">http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-05] [3] ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-11-04

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-11-04 ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael create a .htaccess hack to make the test case identifiers resolve to something useful [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action01] [4]

ACTION: Michael create a .htaccess hack to make the test case identifiers resolve to something useful [recorded in ACTION-01]">http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-01] [4] ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-11-12

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-11-12 ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane investigate the @xml:base validation issue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] [5]

ACTION: Shane investigate the @xml:base validation issue [recorded in ACTION-02]">http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-02] [5] ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-11-19

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-11-19 ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to figure out the RDFa-GRDDL-profile URI (at w3.org) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action15] [6]

ACTION: Ben to figure out the RDFa-GRDDL-profile URI (at w3.org) [recorded in ACTION-15]">http://www.w3.org/2007/06/14-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-15] [6] ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-14-02

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-14-02 ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04] [7]

ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in ACTION-04]">http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-04] [7] ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-16-05

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-16-05 ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10] [8]

ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in ACTION-10]">http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-10] [8] ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-16-13

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-16-13 ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark get input from Joost on @HREF everywhere [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action14] [9]

ACTION: Mark get input from Joost on @HREF everywhere [recorded in ACTION-14]">http://www.w3.org/2007/06/21-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-14] [9] ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-16-24

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-16-24 ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark produce more examples of applicability of n-ary relations from IPTC documents [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/23-htmltf-minutes.html#action08] [10]

ACTION: Mark produce more examples of applicability of n-ary relations from IPTC documents [recorded in ACTION-08]">http://www.w3.org/2006/10/23-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-08] [10] ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-16-46

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-16-46 ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when using @content [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-minutes.html#action25] [11]

ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when using @content [recorded in ACTION-25]">http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-25] [11] ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-18-21

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-18-21 ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to send to mailing list PROPOSE: LINK and META appear only in HEAD with no changes to content model [12]

ACTION: Ben to send to mailing list PROPOSE: LINK and META appear only in HEAD with no changes to content model [12] ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-32-04

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-32-04 ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben summarize the state of @rel everywhere [13]

ACTION: Ben summarize the state of @rel everywhere [13] ←

16:22:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-38-48

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-irc#T15-38-48 ←

16:22:20 <RalphS> zakim, bye

Unknown RalphS: zakim, bye ←

Formatted by CommonScribe