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RDF Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 12 June 2013

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.06.12
Seen
Andy Seaborne, Arnaud Le Hors, Charles Greer, David Wood, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Gavin Carothers, Gregg Kellogg, Guus Schreiber, Ivan Herman, Markus Lanthaler, Patrick Hayes, Peter Patel-Schneider, Pierre-Antoine Champin, Sandro Hawke, Souripriya Das, Steve Harris, Yves Raimond, Zhe Wu
Chair
David Wood
Scribe
Andy Seaborne, Sandro Hawke
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. We change the definition of RDF Datasets to allow blank node graph names. We note (in rdf-concepts) that earlier definitions of datasets did not include blank node graph names, and Skolemizaiton may be useful in providing compatiblity. This closes issue-131 link
  2. Close ISSUE-136 adopting Option 2; the formal interpretation (truth conditions) of a datasets is the formal interpretation (truth conditions) of its default graph link
  3. Close ISSUE-23 without general comment. We have been deciding on a case-by-case basis (YES for Turtle/TriG, NO for JSON-LD) and we expect to continue to do so. link
Topics
14:51:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/06/12-rdf-wg-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/06/12-rdf-wg-irc

14:52:07 <davidwood> Zakim, this will be rdf

David Wood: Zakim, this will be rdf

14:52:07 <Zakim> ok, davidwood; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, davidwood; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes

14:52:18 <davidwood> chair: David Wood
14:54:38 <Guus> trackbot, start meeting

Guus Schreiber: trackbot, start meeting

14:54:40 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:54:42 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394

14:54:42 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes

14:54:43 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:54:43 <trackbot> Date: 12 June 2013
14:55:11 <Guus> chair: davidwood
14:56:13 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started

14:57:06 <Guus> zakim, mute me

Guus Schreiber: zakim, mute me

14:57:06 <Zakim> sorry, Guus, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Guus, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

14:57:17 <Guus> zakim, who is here?

Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here?

14:57:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see no one

14:57:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see pchampin, Guus, RRSAgent, Zakim, gavinc, ivan, AndyS, TallTed, SteveH, manu1, Arnaud, davidwood, manu, sandro, trackbot, yvesr, ericP, mischat

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pchampin, Guus, RRSAgent, Zakim, gavinc, ivan, AndyS, TallTed, SteveH, manu1, Arnaud, davidwood, manu, sandro, trackbot, yvesr, ericP, mischat

14:58:54 <yvesr> Zakim, who is on the phone?

Yves Raimond: Zakim, who is on the phone?

14:58:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see no one

14:59:28 <gavinc> Zakim, this is rdfwg

Gavin Carothers: Zakim, this is rdfwg

14:59:28 <Zakim> gavinc, this was already SW_RDFWG()11:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: gavinc, this was already SW_RDFWG()11:00AM

14:59:29 <Zakim> ok, gavinc; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, gavinc; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM

14:59:54 <gavinc> Zakim, who is here?

Gavin Carothers: Zakim, who is here?

14:59:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see no one

14:59:55 <Zakim> On IRC I see gkellogg, pchampin, Guus, RRSAgent, Zakim, gavinc, ivan, AndyS, TallTed, SteveH, manu1, Arnaud, davidwood, manu, sandro, trackbot, yvesr, ericP, mischat

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see gkellogg, pchampin, Guus, RRSAgent, Zakim, gavinc, ivan, AndyS, TallTed, SteveH, manu1, Arnaud, davidwood, manu, sandro, trackbot, yvesr, ericP, mischat

15:00:49 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

15:00:49 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

15:01:08 <ivan> hi

Ivan Herman: hi

15:01:08 <Guus> hi

Guus Schreiber: hi

15:01:20 <ivan> I am (barely) here

Ivan Herman: I am (barely) here

15:02:01 <pfps> zakim, who is on the phone?

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, who is on the phone?

15:02:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see no one

15:02:21 <AndyS> zakim, IPcaller is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPcaller is me

15:02:21 <Zakim> sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named 'IPcaller'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named 'IPcaller'

15:03:03 <Arnaud> Arnaud has changed the topic to: RDF WG -- current agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.06.12

Arnaud Le Hors: Arnaud has changed the topic to: RDF WG -- current agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.06.12

15:05:27 <davidwood> Zakim, pick a scribe

David Wood: Zakim, pick a scribe

15:05:27 <Zakim> I don't see anyone present, davidwood

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't see anyone present, davidwood

15:07:54 <AndyS> scribenick: AndyS

(Scribe set to Andy Seaborne)

15:08:00 <AndyS> scribe: Andy Seaborne
15:08:08 <davidwood> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 5 June telecon:  https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-06-05

David Wood: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 5 June telecon: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-06-05

15:08:12 <AndyS> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.06.12
15:08:22 <pfps> minutes look fine

Peter Patel-Schneider: minutes look fine

15:08:25 <ivan> zakim, mute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me

15:08:26 <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, ivan, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

15:08:35 <gavinc> topics are not nested correctly, however I don't -really- care

Gavin Carothers: topics are not nested correctly, however I don't -really- care

15:08:35 <davidwood> RESOLVED to accept the minutes of the 5 June telecon:   https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-06-05

David Wood: RESOLVED to accept the minutes of the 5 June telecon: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-06-05

15:08:46 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview

15:09:06 <pfps> actually I added that reference

Peter Patel-Schneider: actually I added that reference

15:09:31 <sandro> action-245?

Sandro Hawke: ACTION-245?

15:09:31 <trackbot> ACTION-245 -- Eric Prud'hommeaux to (with Sandro) to copy or proxy Turtletests2013 to http://www.w3.org/2013/Turtletests/..., updating all base or ttl references to http://example/base/ to be http://www.w3.org/2013/Turtletests/ -- due 2013-04-03 -- PENDINGREVIEW

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-245 -- Eric Prud'hommeaux to (with Sandro) to copy or proxy Turtletests2013 to http://www.w3.org/2013/Turtletests/..., updating all base or ttl references to http://example/base/ to be http://www.w3.org/2013/Turtletests/ -- due 2013-04-03 -- PENDINGREVIEW

15:09:32 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/2013/TurtleTests/

Gavin Carothers: http://www.w3.org/2013/TurtleTests/

15:09:32 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/245

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/245

15:09:43 <AndyS> action-265?

ACTION-265?

15:09:43 <trackbot> ACTION-265 -- David Wood to implement the langString resolution in rdf-concepts AND ENJOY IT -- due 2013-05-29 -- PENDINGREVIEW

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-265 -- David Wood to implement the langString resolution in rdf-concepts AND ENJOY IT -- due 2013-05-29 -- PENDINGREVIEW

15:09:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/265

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/265

15:09:55 <davidwood> ACTION-219?

David Wood: ACTION-219?

15:09:55 <trackbot> ACTION-219 -- Patrick Hayes to informatively reference "XML Schema Datatypes in RDF and OWL" -- due 2012-12-26 -- CLOSED

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-219 -- Patrick Hayes to informatively reference "XML Schema Datatypes in RDF and OWL" -- due 2012-12-26 -- CLOSED

15:09:55 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/219

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/219

15:10:09 <davidwood> ACTION-267?

David Wood: ACTION-267?

15:10:09 <trackbot> ACTION-267 -- Eric Prud'hommeaux to update http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Turtle_Test_Suite http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Turtle-CR-Request#Implementation_Information http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Main_Page to point to http://www.w3.org/2013/TurtleTests/ -- due 2013-06-05 -- PENDINGREVIEW

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-267 -- Eric Prud'hommeaux to update http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Turtle_Test_Suite http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Turtle-CR-Request#Implementation_Information http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Main_Page to point to http://www.w3.org/2013/TurtleTests/ -- due 2013-06-05 -- PENDINGREVIEW

15:10:10 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/267

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/267

15:10:35 <pfps> fine by me

Peter Patel-Schneider: fine by me

15:12:01 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/2013/TurtleTests/README

Gavin Carothers: http://www.w3.org/2013/TurtleTests/README

15:12:18 <AndyS> (I see wiki pt to hg (after refresh))

(I see wiki pt to hg (after refresh))

15:12:30 <gavinc> Isn't there apache magic to include the readme in the directory page?

Gavin Carothers: Isn't there apache magic to include the readme in the directory page?

15:13:07 <gavinc> Yeah, it's being served as text/plain ASCII and is UTF-8 ;)

Gavin Carothers: Yeah, it's being served as text/plain ASCII and is UTF-8 ;)

15:13:15 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2013/TurtleTests/README has some unresolvable characters

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2013/TurtleTests/README has some unresolvable characters

15:15:00 <AndyS> davidwood: open action items

David Wood: open action items

15:15:19 <AndyS> guus: drop poll action ... overtaken by events

Guus Schreiber: drop poll action ... overtaken by events

15:15:25 <gavinc> Sandro did mine

Gavin Carothers: Sandro did mine

15:16:19 <davidwood> ACTION-203?

David Wood: ACTION-203?

15:16:20 <trackbot> ACTION-203 -- Eric Prud'hommeaux to identify an editor for a NOTE: Practical Use Cases of RDF Datasets -- due 2012-11-06 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-203 -- Eric Prud'hommeaux to identify an editor for a NOTE: Practical Use Cases of RDF Datasets -- due 2012-11-06 -- OPEN

15:16:20 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/203

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/203

15:16:25 <davidwood> ^^ Sandro

David Wood: ^^ Sandro

15:17:01 <davidwood> Topic: LC Drafts of Concepts and Semantics

1. LC Drafts of Concepts and Semantics

15:17:19 <davidwood> PROPOSED: We'll add some text to rdf-concepts saying systems MAY support blank node graph names and that communication between systems that do and don't can be aided by using Skolemization (and this closes ISSUE-131).

PROPOSED: We'll add some text to rdf-concepts saying systems MAY support blank node graph names and that communication between systems that do and don't can be aided by using Skolemization (and this closes ISSUE-131).

15:17:21 <AndyS> davidwood: sandro proposal on issue 131:

David Wood: sandro proposal on ISSUE-131:

15:17:57 <AndyS> davidwood: invitation to discuss

David Wood: invitation to discuss

15:18:27 <AndyS> sandro: have not let cygri know

Sandro Hawke: have not let cygri know

15:18:46 <PatH> ignore this test line

Patrick Hayes: ignore this test line

15:18:53 <AndyS> ... SteveH may also have an option

... SteveH may also have an option

15:19:14 <zwu2> MAY sounds acceptable

Zhe Wu: MAY sounds acceptable

15:19:14 <AndyS> davidwood: systems != syntax formats

David Wood: systems != syntax formats

15:19:37 <AndyS> ivan: this postpones discussion on formats

Ivan Herman: this postpones discussion on formats

15:19:37 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

15:19:56 <AndyS> sandro: JSON-LD - no change.

Sandro Hawke: JSON-LD - no change.

15:20:09 <davidwood> ack pfps

David Wood: ack pfps

15:20:10 <zwu2> q+

Zhe Wu: q+

15:20:38 <AndyS> pfps: are we backing away from blank nodes for graph names?

Peter Patel-Schneider: are we backing away from blank nodes for graph names?

15:21:15 <AndyS> sandro: we are backing way from the current doc defn of RDF dataset.

Sandro Hawke: we are backing way from the current doc defn of RDF dataset.

15:21:52 <AndyS> pfps: if we can not requiring bnode for graphs, concepts should not mention it.

Peter Patel-Schneider: if we can not requiring bnode for graphs, concepts should not mention it.

15:22:15 <AndyS> ... if defn is IRIs, concepts, semantics should stick just to that.

... if defn is IRIs, concepts, semantics should stick just to that.

15:23:06 <AndyS> ... middle ground of "MAY" is distasteful.

... middle ground of "MAY" is distasteful.

15:23:06 <zwu2> q-

Zhe Wu: q-

15:23:33 <AndyS> ... because it is inappropriate for concepts to go beyond defn.

... because it is inappropriate for concepts to go beyond defn.

15:23:35 <gavinc> Violate the spec! It's a classic way of getting what you want ;)

Gavin Carothers: Violate the spec! It's a classic way of getting what you want ;)

15:23:43 <SteveH> davidwood, I don't think I have anything to add - seems unnecessary, but also mostly harmless

Steve Harris: davidwood, I don't think I have anything to add - seems unnecessary, but also mostly harmless

15:23:56 <AndyS> ... prefer particular syntaxes to go "beyond RDF"

... prefer particular syntaxes to go "beyond RDF"

15:23:59 <davidwood> SteveH, thanks.

David Wood: SteveH, thanks.

15:24:22 <PatH> Can some one repost the link to the text please?

Patrick Hayes: Can some one repost the link to the text please?

15:24:44 <AndyS> sandro: systesm have done this for a long time (script -- which??)

Sandro Hawke: systesm have done this for a long time (script -- which??)

15:24:47 <gavinc> PROPOSED: We'll add some text to rdf-concepts saying systems MAY support blank node graph names and that communication between systems that do and don't can be aided by using Skolemization (and this closes ISSUE-131).

PROPOSED: We'll add some text to rdf-concepts saying systems MAY support blank node graph names and that communication between systems that do and don't can be aided by using Skolemization (and this closes ISSUE-131).

15:24:49 <PatH> noisy keyboard

Patrick Hayes: noisy keyboard

15:25:01 <davidwood> PatH, http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.06.12#LC_Drafts_of_Concepts_and_Semantics

David Wood: PatH, http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.06.12#LC_Drafts_of_Concepts_and_Semantics

15:25:31 <AndyS> pfps: acceptable to me is bNodes for graph names and then say systems may not implement that feature.

Peter Patel-Schneider: acceptable to me is bNodes for graph names and then say systems may not implement that feature.

15:25:33 <sandro> peter: Graph names can be blank nodes, and we put in concepts that surface syntaxes and systems MAY disallow blank node graph names (and use skolemization)

Peter Patel-Schneider: Graph names can be blank nodes, and we put in concepts that surface syntaxes and systems MAY disallow blank node graph names (and use skolemization) [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:26:06 <AndyS> zwu2: Would Oracle's current be compliant or not?

Zhe Wu: Would Oracle's current be compliant or not?

15:26:19 <AndyS> pfps: yes

Peter Patel-Schneider: yes

15:26:24 <Guus> yes

Guus Schreiber: yes

15:27:14 <AndyS> pfps: already have RDF/XML can't represent all RDF graphs.

Peter Patel-Schneider: already have RDF/XML can't represent all RDF graphs.

15:27:33 <AndyS> davidwood: is skolemization an acceptable approach?

David Wood: is skolemization an acceptable approach?

15:27:37 <sandro> david: A system that uses skolemization is still conformant

David Wood: A system that uses skolemization is still conformant [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:28:04 <AndyS> zwu2: so use generated URIs for graph names.

Zhe Wu: so use generated URIs for graph names.

15:28:31 <gavinc> Eh? Web Browsers can create URLs.

Gavin Carothers: Eh? Web Browsers can create URLs.

15:28:37 <AndyS> q+ to ask about skolemization assumption on existing systems

q+ to ask about skolemization assumption on existing systems

15:28:53 <pfps> clients *can* skolemize all they want, they just can't make the skolems dereference

Peter Patel-Schneider: clients *can* skolemize all they want, they just can't make the skolems dereference

15:29:05 <AndyS> sandro: theoretical impossible to generate ?? on browsers.

Sandro Hawke: theoretical impossible to generate ?? on browsers.

15:29:11 <gavinc> pfps, yes, that

Gavin Carothers: pfps, yes, that

15:29:20 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

15:29:33 <PatH> q+ to say that skolemize is defined for graphs, not datasets.

Patrick Hayes: q+ to say that skolemize is defined for graphs, not datasets.

15:29:44 <AndyS> andys: (raises eyebrow at that claim)

Andy Seaborne: (raises eyebrow at that claim)

15:30:20 <pfps> it's theoretically impossible to generate deferenceable IRIs if you don't have control of some dereferencing process

Peter Patel-Schneider: it's theoretically impossible to generate deferenceable IRIs if you don't have control of some dereferencing process

15:30:34 <gavinc> New syntax example, JSON-LD

Gavin Carothers: New syntax example, JSON-LD

15:30:52 <AndyS> sandro: current syntaxes don't allow bnodes for graph names - want to change TriG to allow that - JSOn-LD already does.

Sandro Hawke: current syntaxes don't allow bnodes for graph names - want to change TriG to allow that - JSOn-LD already does.

15:30:53 <davidwood> ack AndyS

David Wood: ack AndyS

15:30:53 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask about skolemization assumption on existing systems

Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to ask about skolemization assumption on existing systems

15:31:17 <sandro> sandro: eg Oracle will have to Skolemize somewhere between JSON-LD parsing and the Database

Sandro Hawke: eg Oracle will have to Skolemize somewhere between JSON-LD parsing and the Database [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:32:23 <sandro> andy: or through, EG, the Jena API

Andy Seaborne: or through, EG, the Jena API [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:33:04 <AndyS> zwu2; why does a web client not able to generate an IRI?  eg UUID.

zwu2; why does a web client not able to generate an IRI? eg UUID.

15:33:38 <AndyS> sandro: web browsers do not provide a robust random number

Sandro Hawke: web browsers do not provide a robust random number

15:34:13 <AndyS> ... current problem with browser - may change in the future

... current problem with browser - may change in the future

15:34:33 <davidwood> ack PatH

David Wood: ack PatH

15:34:33 <Zakim> PatH, you wanted to say that skolemize is defined for graphs, not datasets.

Zakim IRC Bot: PatH, you wanted to say that skolemize is defined for graphs, not datasets.

15:35:43 <AndyS> PatH: strictly skolemization of datasets is different and needs defining.

Patrick Hayes: strictly skolemization of datasets is different and needs defining.

15:35:58 <AndyS> sandro: UUIDs are not good for RDF.

Sandro Hawke: UUIDs are not good for RDF.

15:36:25 <AndyS> sandro: good looking IRI (scribe --> tag: ?)

Sandro Hawke: good looking IRI (scribe --> tag: ?)

15:36:46 <AndyS> sandro: pfps proposal is OK and I prefer.

Sandro Hawke: pfps proposal is OK and I prefer.

15:37:06 <pfps> graph names can be IRIs, surface syntaxes and systems *MAY* not handle them

Peter Patel-Schneider: graph names can be IRIs, surface syntaxes and systems *MAY* not handle them

15:38:13 <pfps> graph names can be IRIs, surface syntaxes may require IRIs, systems may skolemize them

Peter Patel-Schneider: graph names can be IRIs, surface syntaxes may require IRIs, systems may skolemize them

15:38:14 <PatH> Big echo suddsuddensuddenly

Patrick Hayes: Big echo suddsuddensuddenly

15:38:43 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

15:38:50 <pfps> oops, wrong way around

Peter Patel-Schneider: oops, wrong way around

15:39:05 <gkellogg> Question is, is it appropriate to use a Skolum ID where a BNode is otherwise inappropriate?

Gregg Kellogg: Question is, is it appropriate to use a Skolum ID where a BNode is otherwise inappropriate?

15:39:30 <pfps> graph names can be blank nodes, surface syntaxes may require IRIs for graph names, systems may skolemize blank nodes on input or output

Peter Patel-Schneider: graph names can be blank nodes, surface syntaxes may require IRIs for graph names, systems may skolemize blank nodes on input or output

15:40:10 <sandro> PROPOSED: RDF Datasets include blank nodes for graph names; include a note that systems MAY use Skolemization to provide this functionality -- they don't need to STORE blank nodes in this role, just consume them, and they MAY produce them

PROPOSED: RDF Datasets include blank nodes for graph names; include a note that systems MAY use Skolemization to provide this functionality -- they don't need to STORE blank nodes in this role, just consume them, and they MAY produce them

15:41:28 <markus> q+

Markus Lanthaler: q+

15:41:36 <gkellogg> There are no existing serializations which can represent BNodes in these positions

Gregg Kellogg: There are no existing serializations which can represent BNodes in these positions

15:41:48 <gkellogg> (Other than JSON-LD)

Gregg Kellogg: (Other than JSON-LD)

15:41:53 <markus> q-

Markus Lanthaler: q-

15:42:45 <markus> was about to say the same that gregg just said. how can existing systems be "conformant" to something that didn't exist before?

Markus Lanthaler: was about to say the same that gregg just said. how can existing systems be "conformant" to something that didn't exist before?

15:42:48 <pfps> the original proposal had dataset not having blank nodes as graph names, my counter is to have datasets allow blank nodes as graph names

Peter Patel-Schneider: the original proposal had dataset not having blank nodes as graph names, my counter is to have datasets allow blank nodes as graph names

15:43:07 <PatH> Becasue the new stuff is optional?

Patrick Hayes: Becasue the new stuff is optional?

15:43:33 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

15:43:36 <pfps> this has the benefit that JSON-LD *is* RDF, which means that they JSON-LD documents *must* define in terms of RDF!

Peter Patel-Schneider: this has the benefit that JSON-LD *is* RDF, which means that they JSON-LD documents *must* define in terms of RDF!

15:44:24 <PatH> No, json also allows bnodes in property position.

Patrick Hayes: No, json also allows bnodes in property position.

15:44:40 <sandro> Zero or more named graphs. Each named graph is a pair consisting of an IRI (the graph name), and an RDF graph. Graph names are unique within an RDF dataset.

Sandro Hawke: Zero or more named graphs. Each named graph is a pair consisting of an IRI (the graph name), and an RDF graph. Graph names are unique within an RDF dataset.

15:44:41 <PatH> But we *could* go there...

Patrick Hayes: But we *could* go there...

15:45:16 <sandro> Change to: Zero or more named graphs. Each named graph is a pair consisting of a the graph name (and IRI or a blank node) , and an RDF graph. Graph names are unique within an RDF dataset.

Sandro Hawke: Change to: Zero or more named graphs. Each named graph is a pair consisting of a the graph name (and IRI or a blank node) , and an RDF graph. Graph names are unique within an RDF dataset.

15:45:24 <pfps> i'm getting less and less enamored of JSON-LD

Peter Patel-Schneider: i'm getting less and less enamored of JSON-LD

15:46:41 <sandro> andy: Allow systems that dont do this to be conformant by invoking the general rule that you can reject anything

Andy Seaborne: Allow systems that dont do this to be conformant by invoking the general rule that you can reject anything [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:49:02 <AndyS> andys: state that the definition has changed and note systems may provide the old form.

Andy Seaborne: state that the definition has changed and note systems may provide the old form.

15:49:11 <sandro> PROPOSED: We change the definition of RDF Datasets to allow blank node graph names.     We note that earlier definitions of datasets did not include blank node graph names, and Skolemizaiton may be useful in providing compatiblity

PROPOSED: We change the definition of RDF Datasets to allow blank node graph names. We note that earlier definitions of datasets did not include blank node graph names, and Skolemizaiton may be useful in providing compatiblity

15:49:22 <PatH> We need to say that two dofferent datasets cannot share a blank node. Bnodes are unique to the dataset.

Patrick Hayes: We need to say that two dofferent datasets cannot share a blank node. Bnodes are unique to the dataset.

15:49:49 <pfps> at some point there will have to be some WG discussion of Antoine's comments on Semantics

Peter Patel-Schneider: at some point there will have to be some WG discussion of Antoine's comments on Semantics

15:50:10 <sandro> sandro: in a pure mathematical sense, I don't tink that's true Pat.

Sandro Hawke: in a pure mathematical sense, I don't tink that's true Pat. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:50:39 <PatH> OK, withdraw that.

Patrick Hayes: OK, withdraw that.

15:50:39 <sandro> PROPOSED: We change the definition of RDF Datasets to allow blank node graph names.     We note (in rdf-concepts)  that earlier definitions of datasets did not include blank node graph names, and Skolemizaiton may be useful in providing compatiblity.  This closes issue-131

PROPOSED: We change the definition of RDF Datasets to allow blank node graph names. We note (in rdf-concepts) that earlier definitions of datasets did not include blank node graph names, and Skolemizaiton may be useful in providing compatiblity. This closes ISSUE-131

15:50:44 <AndyS> issue-131?

ISSUE-131?

15:50:44 <trackbot> ISSUE-131 -- How can one create an RDF dataset without being a web server? -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-131 -- How can one create an RDF dataset without being a web server? -- open

15:50:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/131

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/131

15:50:50 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

15:50:54 <markus> +1

Markus Lanthaler: +1

15:50:54 <gkellogg> +1

Gregg Kellogg: +1

15:50:57 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

15:50:59 <pfps> +1, but the previous objectors may still object

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1, but the previous objectors may still object

15:51:00 <zwu2> 0

Zhe Wu: 0

15:51:01 <AndyS> 0

0

15:51:02 <cgreer> +1

Charles Greer: +1

15:51:10 <gavinc> 0

Gavin Carothers: 0

15:51:16 <Souri> 0

Souripriya Das: 0

15:51:20 <Arnaud1> +1

Arnaud Le Hors: +1

15:51:28 <PatH> I just now read Antoine's email, will respond to it later today. It needs a detailed response.

Patrick Hayes: I just now read Antoine's email, will respond to it later today. It needs a detailed response.

15:51:35 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

15:51:40 <yvesr> 0

Yves Raimond: 0

15:52:00 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:52:08 <gavinc> In 6 months there won't be a working group :P

Gavin Carothers: In 6 months there won't be a working group :P

15:52:12 <PatH> consensus by attenuation.

Patrick Hayes: consensus by attenuation.

15:52:15 <yvesr> actually, revising to +0.5

Yves Raimond: actually, revising to +0.5

15:52:19 <pfps> the only changes to Semantics are localized in the section on RDF Datasets

Peter Patel-Schneider: the only changes to Semantics are localized in the section on RDF Datasets

15:52:38 <sandro> eric: +1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:52:43 <PatH> NOt clear we need any changes to Sematnics.

Patrick Hayes: NOt clear we need any changes to Sematnics.

15:52:52 <sandro> RESOLVED: We change the definition of RDF Datasets to allow blank node graph names.     We note (in rdf-concepts)  that earlier definitions of datasets did not include blank node graph names, and Skolemizaiton may be useful in providing compatiblity.  This closes issue-131

RESOLVED: We change the definition of RDF Datasets to allow blank node graph names. We note (in rdf-concepts) that earlier definitions of datasets did not include blank node graph names, and Skolemizaiton may be useful in providing compatiblity. This closes ISSUE-131

15:53:08 <davidwood> On ISSUE-136 Sandro suggests: PROPOSED: The formal meaning of an RDF Dataset is no less than the formal meaning of its default graph. This revises an earlier decision that datasets in general have no formal semantics, in order to allow for the use of specific dataset semantics to be signalled within a dataset. This feature to be added to rdf-concepts and rdf-mt, marked AT RISK for LC, since it hasn't been discussed much yet.

David Wood: On ISSUE-136 Sandro suggests: PROPOSED: The formal meaning of an RDF Dataset is no less than the formal meaning of its default graph. This revises an earlier decision that datasets in general have no formal semantics, in order to allow for the use of specific dataset semantics to be signalled within a dataset. This feature to be added to rdf-concepts and rdf-mt, marked AT RISK for LC, since it hasn't been discussed much yet.

15:53:16 <sandro> topic: issue-136

2. ISSUE-136

15:53:29 <AndyS> issue-136?

ISSUE-136?

15:53:29 <trackbot> ISSUE-136 -- How can one indicate which semantics are intended for a Dataset? -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-136 -- How can one indicate which semantics are intended for a Dataset? -- raised

15:53:29 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/136

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/136

15:54:56 <AndyS> This was only raised less than 24hrs ago.

This was only raised less than 24hrs ago.

15:55:17 <AndyS> sandro: default graph is the truth condition of the dataset

Sandro Hawke: default graph is the truth condition of the dataset

15:56:50 <AndyS> ivan: don't understand the terminology

Ivan Herman: don't understand the terminology

15:57:15 <AndyS> andys: anyone can object at any time - W3C process does not place a limit.

Andy Seaborne: anyone can object at any time - W3C process does not place a limit.

15:57:18 <pfps> Option 2 amounts to saying that the formal interpretation of a dataset is the interpretation of its default graph

Peter Patel-Schneider: Option 2 amounts to saying that the formal interpretation of a dataset is the interpretation of its default graph

15:57:36 <sandro> PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-137 adopting Option 2; the truth condition of datasets are the truth conditions of its default graph

PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-137 adopting Option 2; the truth condition of datasets are the truth conditions of its default graph

15:57:42 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

15:57:55 <markus> gotta run.. I'm late already

Markus Lanthaler: gotta run.. I'm late already

15:57:59 <PatH> Yes, exactly. So datasets actually do have a semantics now, and we say what it is.

Patrick Hayes: Yes, exactly. So datasets actually do have a semantics now, and we say what it is.

15:58:09 <markus> I'm +1 to the proposal that has just been posted by Sandro

Markus Lanthaler: I'm +1 to the proposal that has just been posted by Sandro

15:58:12 <gavinc> The truth condition of a dataset who's default graph is the union/merge/whatever of it's named graph is now amazing ;)

Gavin Carothers: The truth condition of a dataset who's default graph is the union/merge/whatever of it's named graph is now amazing ;)

15:58:26 <davidwood> Thanks, markus

David Wood: Thanks, markus

15:58:30 <pfps> this is the cleanest way of proceeding - Option 3 requires looking inside the graph and pulling out parts, which we have never done

Peter Patel-Schneider: this is the cleanest way of proceeding - Option 3 requires looking inside the graph and pulling out parts, which we have never done

15:59:31 <AndyS> q+

q+

15:59:44 <sandro> pfps: so it's a semantic-preserving operation, when you do the json-ld thing of using th defaule graph

Peter Patel-Schneider: so it's a semantic-preserving operation, when you do the json-ld thing of using th defaule graph [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:00:00 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:00:06 <davidwood> ack AndyS

David Wood: ack AndyS

16:01:36 <sandro> andy: what about simple entailment turning IRIs into blank nodes in a dataset?

Andy Seaborne: what about simple entailment turning IRIs into blank nodes in a dataset? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:01:36 <AndyS> ack me

ack me

16:01:37 <sandro> pat: I think it's harmless here.

Patrick Hayes: I think it's harmless here. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:01:52 <sandro> AndyS: I'm not convinced.   There may need to be stronger conditions.

Andy Seaborne: I'm not convinced. There may need to be stronger conditions. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:02:05 <sandro> PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-137 adopting Option 2; the formal interpretation of a datasets is the formal interpretation of its default graph

PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-137 adopting Option 2; the formal interpretation of a datasets is the formal interpretation of its default graph

16:02:24 <pfps> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1

16:02:25 <sandro> PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-137 adopting Option 2; the formal interpretation (truth conditions) of a datasets is the formal interpretation (truth conditions) of its default graph

PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-137 adopting Option 2; the formal interpretation (truth conditions) of a datasets is the formal interpretation (truth conditions) of its default graph

16:02:28 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:02:30 <gavinc> 0

Gavin Carothers: 0

16:02:31 <gkellogg> +1

Gregg Kellogg: +1

16:02:36 <pfps> Ivan: this is editorial

Ivan Herman: this is editorial [ Scribe Assist by Peter Patel-Schneider ]

16:02:38 <yvesr> +1

Yves Raimond: +1

16:02:40 <zwu2> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

16:02:41 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

16:02:44 <sandro> issue-137?

Sandro Hawke: ISSUE-137?

16:02:44 <trackbot> ISSUE-137 does not exist.

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-137 does not exist.

16:02:51 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

16:02:52 <sandro> we mean 136

Sandro Hawke: we mean 136

16:03:00 <davidwood> 0

David Wood: 0

16:03:26 <Arnaud1> +1

Arnaud Le Hors: +1

16:03:27 <sandro> RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-136 adopting Option 2; the formal interpretation (truth conditions) of a datasets is the formal interpretation (truth conditions) of its default graph

RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-136 adopting Option 2; the formal interpretation (truth conditions) of a datasets is the formal interpretation (truth conditions) of its default graph

16:03:27 <Guus> +0

Guus Schreiber: +0

16:03:30 <pchampin> +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

16:03:35 <sandro> eric: +1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:03:40 <Souri> 0

Souripriya Das: 0

16:04:06 <sandro> scribe: sandro

(Scribe set to Sandro Hawke)

16:04:10 <sandro> topic: Publications

3. Publications

16:04:32 <sandro> davidwood: We can't proceed on rdf-mt because of Antoine's comments, and rdf-concepts needs editorial changes I haven't done yet

David Wood: We can't proceed on rdf-mt because of Antoine's comments, and rdf-concepts needs editorial changes I haven't done yet

16:04:42 <sandro> davidwood: I propose we advance them next week

David Wood: I propose we advance them next week

16:04:54 <sandro> pfps: Antoine's changes are too big for that.

Peter Patel-Schneider: Antoine's changes are too big for that.

16:05:23 <sandro> pfps: Then we need to say over-ride Antoine's

Peter Patel-Schneider: Then we need to say over-ride Antoine's

16:06:02 <sandro> sandro: I'm waiting to see a rebuttal to Antoine's persepctive

Sandro Hawke: I'm waiting to see a rebuttal to Antoine's persepctive

16:06:59 <sandro> ACTION: pfps to send email describing the differences between Antoine's view and the current draft (eg you don't know what the datatype interpretation is)

ACTION: pfps to send email describing the differences between Antoine's view and the current draft (eg you don't know what the datatype interpretation is)

16:06:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-272 - Send email describing the differences between Antoine's view and the current draft (eg you don't know what the datatype interpretation is) [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2013-06-19].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-272 - Send email describing the differences between Antoine's view and the current draft (eg you don't know what the datatype interpretation is) [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2013-06-19].

16:07:32 <sandro> pfps: I sympathize with his position, where you want everything to refer, or you don't know what things mean.

Peter Patel-Schneider: I sympathize with his position, where you want everything to refer, or you don't know what things mean.

16:07:50 <sandro> davidwood: Isn't this the big philosophical leap of RDF in general?

David Wood: Isn't this the big philosophical leap of RDF in general?

16:08:20 <sandro> pfps: Not quite.  THere's a difference between not exactly knowing, and not knowing what something refers to

Peter Patel-Schneider: Not quite. THere's a difference between not exactly knowing, and not knowing what something refers to

16:08:54 <sandro> pfps: eg we know who brad pitt is, without really *knowing* brad pitt

Peter Patel-Schneider: eg we know who brad pitt is, without really *knowing* brad pitt

16:09:03 <sandro> pat: I'll also reply to Antoine

Patrick Hayes: I'll also reply to Antoine

16:09:21 <sandro> davidwood: cf the Polymorphic Nature of Null

David Wood: cf the Polymorphic Nature of Null

16:09:28 <sandro> pfps: Null is even worse.

Peter Patel-Schneider: Null is even worse.

16:09:41 <sandro> pfps: You could be talking about THREE different things with Null.

Peter Patel-Schneider: You could be talking about THREE different things with Null.

16:10:14 <sandro> topic: ISSUE-23

4. ISSUE-23

16:10:17 <davidwood> On ISSUE-23, Sandro suggests: PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-23 without general comment. We have been deciding on a case-by-case basis (YES for Turtle/TriG, NO for JSON-LD) and we expect to continue to do so.

David Wood: On ISSUE-23, Sandro suggests: PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-23 without general comment. We have been deciding on a case-by-case basis (YES for Turtle/TriG, NO for JSON-LD) and we expect to continue to do so.

16:10:32 <pfps> +2

Peter Patel-Schneider: +2

16:10:32 <davidwood> ISSUE-23?

David Wood: ISSUE-23?

16:10:32 <trackbot> ISSUE-23 -- Does going from single-graph to multi-graph require new format and new media types? -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-23 -- Does going from single-graph to multi-graph require new format and new media types? -- open

16:10:32 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/23

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/23

16:10:36 <sandro> PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-23 without general comment. We have been deciding on a case-by-case basis (YES for Turtle/TriG, NO for JSON-LD) and we expect to continue to do so.

PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-23 without general comment. We have been deciding on a case-by-case basis (YES for Turtle/TriG, NO for JSON-LD) and we expect to continue to do so.

16:10:45 <pfps> +2

Peter Patel-Schneider: +2

16:10:58 <sandro> +1

+1

16:10:59 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

16:10:59 <cgreer> +1

Charles Greer: +1

16:11:01 <yvesr> +1

Yves Raimond: +1

16:11:01 <gkellogg> +1

Gregg Kellogg: +1

16:11:03 <gavinc> +∞

Gavin Carothers: +∞

16:11:04 <pchampin> +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

16:11:05 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:11:09 <PatH> 0

Patrick Hayes: 0

16:11:11 <zwu2> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

16:11:16 <Souri> +1

Souripriya Das: +1

16:11:31 <Arnaud> +1

Arnaud Le Hors: +1

16:11:40 <sandro> RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-23 without general comment. We have been deciding on a case-by-case basis (YES for Turtle/TriG, NO for JSON-LD) and we expect to continue to do so.

RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-23 without general comment. We have been deciding on a case-by-case basis (YES for Turtle/TriG, NO for JSON-LD) and we expect to continue to do so.

16:12:38 <sandro> topic: Rec Track Status of TriG, N-Quads, N-Triples

5. Rec Track Status of N-Quads, N-Triples

16:13:30 <sandro> sandro: WG decide rec-track, then leadership figured we didn't have time

Sandro Hawke: WG decide rec-track, then leadership figured we didn't have time

16:13:50 <sandro> davidwood: Sorry I failed to close the loop on these

David Wood: Sorry I failed to close the loop on these

16:14:01 <sandro> gavin: We've had some comments on this.

Gavin Carothers: We've had some comments on this.

16:14:26 <sandro> davidwood: We should probably make this a WG decision

David Wood: We should probably make this a WG decision

16:14:55 <sandro> s/TriG, /
16:14:57 <sandro> s/TriG, //
16:15:06 <Guus> q+

Guus Schreiber: q+

16:15:11 <sandro> we're just talking about N-Quads and N-Triples

we're just talking about N-Quads and N-Triples

16:16:00 <sandro> gavin: So N-Triples was in a Recommendation, but it wasn't itself Recommended.

Gavin Carothers: So N-Triples was in a Recommendation, but it wasn't itself Recommended.

16:16:04 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Rdf-extension.html says that TriG will be a Rec, but NT and NQ will be notes.  That's what we want to do.

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Rdf-extension.html says that TriG will be a Rec, but NT and NQ will be notes. That's what we want to do.

16:16:16 <sandro> guus: Now it's upgraded, even though it's not in a Recommendation any more.

Guus Schreiber: Now it's upgraded, even though it's not in a Recommendation any more.

16:16:41 <sandro> guus: It used to be an Appendix that said don't use this.

Guus Schreiber: It used to be an Appendix that said don't use this.

16:16:44 <sandro> gavin: We've had comments that it's weird.

Gavin Carothers: We've had comments that it's weird.

16:17:36 <sandro> gavin: ... from when N-Triples was part of Turtle Doc.   Greg Williams and David Robillard say 'it's weird'

Gavin Carothers: ... from when N-Triples was part of Turtle Doc. Greg Williams and David Robillard say 'it's weird'

16:18:04 <sandro> davidwood: We're very close to out of time

David Wood: We're very close to out of time

16:18:27 <sandro> guus: We COULD bring this back to the rec track.  The question is whether we should take on this work now.

Guus Schreiber: We COULD bring this back to the rec track. The question is whether we should take on this work now.

16:19:26 <gkellogg> We have a test suite for N-Triples, we don't for TriG!

Gregg Kellogg: We have a test suite for N-Triples, we don't for TriG!

16:19:32 <sandro> sandro: My take is this is mostly up to Gavin, if he's really up to doing all the work.

Sandro Hawke: My take is this is mostly up to Gavin, if he's really up to doing all the work.

16:20:04 <Arnaud> while I understand Gavin's frustration I think it is unwise to underestimate what it would take to add any spec to the Rec track at this point

Arnaud Le Hors: while I understand Gavin's frustration I think it is unwise to underestimate what it would take to add any spec to the Rec track at this point

16:20:10 <sandro> gavin: TriG is late because we told it to wait for Datasets; that's not my fault.

Gavin Carothers: TriG is late because we told it to wait for Datasets; that's not my fault.

16:20:14 <gkellogg> Pointer to test suite for TriG?

Gregg Kellogg: Pointer to test suite for TriG?

16:20:38 <sandro> gavin: It's hard to take these things to Rec Track.   but N-Triples is very widely used.   Not having it be a Rec feels very strange.

Gavin Carothers: It's hard to take these things to Rec Track. but N-Triples is very widely used. Not having it be a Rec feels very strange.

16:20:55 <sandro> gavin: No test suite for TriG yet.

Gavin Carothers: No test suite for TriG yet.

16:21:26 <sandro> davidwood: Gavin, how would you like to proceed.

David Wood: Gavin, how would you like to proceed.

16:21:52 <sandro> gavin: I'd like to take the N-* syntaxes to Rec.  It will be easier than TriG.

Gavin Carothers: I'd like to take the N-* syntaxes to Rec. It will be easier than TriG.

16:22:21 <sandro> gavin: There's a very real chance that TriG wont make it, but N-Quads will.

Gavin Carothers: There's a very real chance that TriG wont make it, but N-Quads will.

16:22:37 <sandro> davidwood: Last Call by end of june, Gavin?

David Wood: Last Call by end of june, Gavin?

16:22:56 <sandro> Guus: TriG is our first priority

Guus Schreiber: TriG is our first priority

16:23:41 <sandro> gavin: I see no way that TriG will make it out of LC and to PR in six months.   That's a fantasy at this point.

Gavin Carothers: I see no way that TriG will make it out of LC and to PR in six months. That's a fantasy at this point.

16:24:05 <sandro> gavin: No TriG implementations work the same as they used to; no TriG implementations work today -- we can't get this done in six months

Gavin Carothers: No TriG implementations work the same as they used to; no TriG implementations work today -- we can't get this done in six months

16:24:36 <gkellogg> I have one I think is reasonably complete.

Gregg Kellogg: I have one I think is reasonably complete.

16:24:56 <sandro> sandro: We *could* do two implemantions in a week

Sandro Hawke: We *could* do two implemantions in a week

16:25:37 <sandro> ivan: Let's go on optimistically.        We can drop TriG to note later.

Ivan Herman: Let's go on optimistically. We can drop TriG to note later.

16:25:46 <sandro> sandro: Right -- so don't drop N-Quad yet.

Sandro Hawke: Right -- so don't drop N-Quad yet.

16:26:03 <sandro> gavin: Yes, -- which ever goes to PR first, or both (or JSON-LD) wins.

Gavin Carothers: Yes, -- which ever goes to PR first, or both (or JSON-LD) wins.

16:26:15 <sandro> davidwood: We're over time.

David Wood: We're over time.

16:26:18 <zwu2> bye

Zhe Wu: bye

16:26:31 <sandro> davidwood: We'll try to get rdf-concepts and rdf-mt to last call by next week.

David Wood: We'll try to get rdf-concepts and rdf-mt to last call by next week.

16:26:35 <Arnaud> regrets for next week (LDP F2F)

Arnaud Le Hors: regrets for next week (LDP F2F)

16:26:55 <sandro> ADJOURNED

ADJOURNED

17:42:32 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended

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Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended

17:42:33 <Zakim> Attendees were

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