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RDF Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 03 April 2013

Seen
Andy Seaborne, Antoine Zimmermann, Charles Greer, David Wood, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Gavin Carothers, Gregg Kellogg, Guus Schreiber, Ivan Herman, Manu Sporny, Markus Lanthaler, Peter Patel-Schneider, Pierre-Antoine Champin, Richard Cyganiak, Sandro Hawke, Souripriya Das, Steve Harris, Ted Thibodeau, Unknown SteveH, Yves Raimond, Zhe Wu
Guests
Steve Harris
Regrets
Guus Schreiber, David Wood, Andy Seaborne
Chair
Ivan Herman
Scribe
Yves Raimond
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. Minutes from the 2013-03-27 are accepted link
Topics

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14:14:14 <yvesr> Guest: Steve (SteveH) Harris
14:14:14 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/03-rdf-wg-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/03-rdf-wg-irc

14:14:16 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:14:18 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394

14:14:18 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 46 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 46 minutes

14:14:19 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:14:19 <trackbot> Date: 03 April 2013
14:15:02 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: RDF WG -- current agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.04.03

Ivan Herman: ivan has changed the topic to: RDF WG -- current agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.04.03

14:25:54 <ivan> Regrets: Guus, DavidW, AndyS
14:52:38 <gavinc> Ugh, it seems my update today is: No I haven't had time to send the Grant requests or setup something to deploy to 2013/turtle-testsuite/

(No events recorded for 37 minutes)

Gavin Carothers: Ugh, it seems my update today is: No I haven't had time to send the Grant requests or setup something to deploy to 2013/turtle-testsuite/

14:57:55 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started

14:58:02 <Zakim> +GavinC

Zakim IRC Bot: +GavinC

14:58:58 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

14:59:20 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

14:59:28 <ivan> Chair: Ivan
14:59:29 <Zakim> +??P4

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P4

15:00:15 <yvesr> Zakim: ??P4 is me
15:00:17 <Zakim> +cgreer

Zakim IRC Bot: +cgreer

15:00:23 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P4 is me

Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P4 is me

15:00:23 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr; got it

15:00:42 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

15:00:50 <yvesr> ivan, sorry, a bit slow today :)

Yves Raimond: ivan, sorry, a bit slow today :)

15:00:52 <Zakim> + +1.908.251.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.908.251.aaaa

15:00:52 <Zakim> +??P8

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8

15:00:56 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

15:00:56 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it

15:00:57 <gkellogg> zakim, I am ??P8

Gregg Kellogg: zakim, I am ??P8

15:00:58 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:00:58 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it

15:00:58 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted

15:01:02 <pfps> zakim, aaaa is me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, aaaa is me

15:01:02 <Zakim> +pfps; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it

15:01:06 <Zakim> +??P13

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13

15:01:16 <manu> zakim, I am ??P13

Manu Sporny: zakim, I am ??P13

15:01:16 <Zakim> +manu; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +manu; got it

15:01:17 <Zakim> +??P14

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14

15:01:26 <AZ> Zakim, ??P14 is me

Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, ??P14 is me

15:01:26 <Zakim> +AZ; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it

15:01:30 <ivan> zakim, who is here?

Ivan Herman: zakim, who is here?

15:01:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see GavinC, Sandro, Ivan, yvesr, cgreer, TallTed (muted), pfps, gkellogg, manu, AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see GavinC, Sandro, Ivan, yvesr, cgreer, TallTed (muted), pfps, gkellogg, manu, AZ

15:01:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see cgreer, pfps, AZ, Guus, Zakim, RRSAgent, TallTed, SteveH, ivan, Arnaud, gavinc, gkellogg, manu, yvesr, ericP, manu1, davidwood, mischat, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see cgreer, pfps, AZ, Guus, Zakim, RRSAgent, TallTed, SteveH, ivan, Arnaud, gavinc, gkellogg, manu, yvesr, ericP, manu1, davidwood, mischat, sandro, trackbot

15:02:17 <Zakim> +??P20

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P20

15:02:19 <ericP> waiting for HCLS call to finish

Eric Prud'hommeaux: waiting for HCLS call to finish

15:02:24 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P20 is me

Scribe problem: the name 'SteveH' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Steve Harris Steve Harris . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Scribe problem: the name 'SteveH' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Steve Harris Steve Harris . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Unknown SteveH: Zakim, ??P20 is me

15:02:25 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it

15:03:53 <ivan> zakim, pick a victim

Ivan Herman: zakim, pick a victim

15:03:53 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose SteveH

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose SteveH

15:04:06 <SteveH> sorry, I'm not on a speakerphone, so typing is not easy

Scribe problem: the name 'SteveH' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Steve Harris Steve Harris . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Scribe problem: the name 'SteveH' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Steve Harris Steve Harris . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Unknown SteveH: sorry, I'm not on a speakerphone, so typing is not easy

15:04:17 <ivan> zakim, pick a victim

Ivan Herman: zakim, pick a victim

15:04:17 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose GavinC

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose GavinC

15:04:26 <ivan> zakim, pick a victim

Ivan Herman: zakim, pick a victim

15:04:26 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose yvesr

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose yvesr

15:04:31 <yvesr> yep

Yves Raimond: yep

15:04:36 <yvesr> scribe: yvesr

(Scribe set to Yves Raimond)

15:04:45 <Zakim> +cygri

Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri

15:05:00 <pfps> can we start up the scribe list again?  it is much easier to scribe if one knows in advance

Peter Patel-Schneider: can we start up the scribe list again? it is much easier to scribe if one knows in advance

15:05:01 <yvesr> ivan: We are back in schedule for the TZ, until October

Ivan Herman: We are back in schedule for the TZ, until October

15:05:28 <ivan> -> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2013-03-27 minutes of last meeting

Ivan Herman: -> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2013-03-27 minutes of last meeting

15:05:34 <pfps> minutes are fine

Peter Patel-Schneider: minutes are fine

15:05:50 <markus> zakim, code?

Markus Lanthaler: zakim, code?

15:05:50 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), markus

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), markus

15:06:01 <Zakim> +??P25

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P25

15:06:10 <yvesr> RESOLVED: Minutes from the 2013-03-27 are accepted

RESOLVED: Minutes from the 2013-03-27 are accepted

15:06:25 <markus> zakim, ??P25 is me

Markus Lanthaler: zakim, ??P25 is me

15:06:25 <Zakim> +markus; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +markus; got it

15:06:38 <yvesr> ivan: there are a number of actions to review

Ivan Herman: there are a number of actions to review

15:06:48 <cygri> ACTION-222?

Richard Cyganiak: ACTION-222?

15:06:48 <trackbot> ACTION-222 -- Richard Cyganiak to work with PatH to make sure there is no duplicated content between RDF Concepts and RDF Semantics -- due 2013-01-23 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-222 -- Richard Cyganiak to work with PatH to make sure there is no duplicated content between RDF Concepts and RDF Semantics -- due 2013-01-23 -- OPEN

15:06:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/222

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/222

15:06:52 <yvesr> ivan: 221 and 222 are the same action, on cygri and path

Ivan Herman: 221 and 222 are the same action, on cygri and path

15:07:15 <Zakim> +Souri

Zakim IRC Bot: +Souri

15:07:20 <yvesr> cygri: this is not something that needs to be addressed at this point

Richard Cyganiak: this is not something that needs to be addressed at this point

15:07:28 <Zakim> +Guus_Schreiber

Zakim IRC Bot: +Guus_Schreiber

15:07:29 <yvesr> ... i'd rather leave it open at the moment

... i'd rather leave it open at the moment

15:07:30 <pfps> In my opinion Concepts and Semantics are not totally aligned, but there are no serious issues.

Peter Patel-Schneider: In my opinion Concepts and Semantics are not totally aligned, but there are no serious issues.

15:07:51 <cygri> pfps, I agree. Needs a careful review.

Richard Cyganiak: pfps, I agree. Needs a careful review.

15:07:56 <cygri> ACTION-226?

Richard Cyganiak: ACTION-226?

15:07:56 <trackbot> ACTION-226 -- Richard Cyganiak to implement ISSUE-111 resolution -- due 2013-02-13 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-226 -- Richard Cyganiak to implement ISSUE-111 resolution -- due 2013-02-13 -- OPEN

15:07:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/226

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/226

15:08:01 <yvesr> ivan: there is another action on cygri's name - ACTION-226

Ivan Herman: there is another action on cygri's name - ACTION-226

15:08:12 <cygri> ACTION-227?

Richard Cyganiak: ACTION-227?

15:08:12 <trackbot> ACTION-227 -- Richard Cyganiak to present concrete wording for ISSUE-105 -- due 2013-02-13 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-227 -- Richard Cyganiak to present concrete wording for ISSUE-105 -- due 2013-02-13 -- OPEN

15:08:12 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/227

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/227

15:08:23 <yvesr> cygri: ACTION-226 is not done

Richard Cyganiak: ACTION-226 is not done

15:08:29 <Zakim> +zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2

15:08:37 <yvesr> ... as is ACTION-227

... as is ACTION-227

15:08:51 <yvesr> ivan: ACTION-332 was on sandro

Ivan Herman: ACTION-332 was on sandro

15:08:57 <gavinc> Issue is now mine.

Gavin Carothers: Issue is now mine.

15:09:02 <yvesr> sandro: my understanding is that we can close it

Sandro Hawke: my understanding is that we can close it

15:09:41 <sandro> close action-232

Sandro Hawke: close ACTION-232

15:09:41 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-232 Learn about the w3c test suite license.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ACTION-232 Learn about the w3c test suite license.

15:10:02 <sandro> action-233?

Sandro Hawke: ACTION-233?

15:10:02 <trackbot> ACTION-233 -- Gavin Carothers to publish the consolidated test suite -- due 2013-03-06 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-233 -- Gavin Carothers to publish the consolidated test suite -- due 2013-03-06 -- OPEN

15:10:02 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/233

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/233

15:10:16 <yvesr> ivan: is ACTION-233 more than publishing the consolidated test suite?

Ivan Herman: is ACTION-233 more than publishing the consolidated test suite?

15:10:33 <yvesr> ivan: we have 3 actions all on the JSON-LD review

Ivan Herman: we have 3 actions all on the JSON-LD review

15:10:52 <sandro> close action-240

Sandro Hawke: close ACTION-240

15:10:52 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-240 Review JSON-LD API document.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ACTION-240 Review JSON-LD API document.

15:10:54 <yvesr> ivan: i believe 3 have been done

Ivan Herman: i believe 3 have been done

15:10:56 <Zakim> +EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP

15:11:00 <Zakim> +??P32

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P32

15:11:20 <pchampin> zakim, ??P32 is me

Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, ??P32 is me

15:11:20 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pchampin; got it

15:11:26 <cygri> ACTION-239?

Richard Cyganiak: ACTION-239?

15:11:26 <trackbot> ACTION-239 -- Richard Cyganiak to review Semantics draft regarding move to FPWD -- due 2013-03-13 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-239 -- Richard Cyganiak to review Semantics draft regarding move to FPWD -- due 2013-03-13 -- OPEN

15:11:26 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/239

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/239

15:11:26 <sandro> action-241?

Sandro Hawke: ACTION-241?

15:11:26 <trackbot> ACTION-241 -- Zhe Wu to review JSON-LD API document -- due 2013-03-27 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-241 -- Zhe Wu to review JSON-LD API document -- due 2013-03-27 -- OPEN

15:11:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/241

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/241

15:11:52 <yvesr> close action-239

close ACTION-239

15:11:52 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-239 Review Semantics draft regarding move to FPWD.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ACTION-239 Review Semantics draft regarding move to FPWD.

15:12:13 <cgreer> close action-238

Charles Greer: close ACTION-238

15:12:13 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-238 Review the JSON-LD syntax document, after Sandro's review has been taken into account.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ACTION-238 Review the JSON-LD syntax document, after Sandro's review has been taken into account.

15:12:29 <yvesr> action-235?

ACTION-235?

15:12:29 <trackbot> ACTION-235 -- Antoine Zimmermann to review RDF 1.1 Semantics -- due 2013-03-06 -- CLOSED

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-235 -- Antoine Zimmermann to review RDF 1.1 Semantics -- due 2013-03-06 -- CLOSED

15:12:29 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/235

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/235

15:12:32 <yvesr> action-236?

ACTION-236?

15:12:32 <trackbot> ACTION-236 -- Guus Schreiber to put spec of scope bnodes in Concepts on agenda for 6 Mar -- due 2013-03-06 -- CLOSED

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-236 -- Guus Schreiber to put spec of scope bnodes in Concepts on agenda for 6 Mar -- due 2013-03-06 -- CLOSED

15:12:32 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/236

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/236

15:12:35 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me

15:12:35 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted

15:12:50 <gavinc> Non NON NFC

Gavin Carothers: Non NON NFC

15:13:00 <gavinc> NFC only IRIs

Gavin Carothers: NFC only IRIs

15:13:19 <yvesr> gavinc: the job was to delete the non-non nfc test from the test suite

Gavin Carothers: the job was to delete the non-non nfc test from the test suite

15:13:44 <yvesr> gavinc: i added an approval status to all of the tests, make them all approved, and added a rejected column for that one

Eric Prud'hommeaux: i added an approval status to all of the tests, make them all approved, and added a rejected column for that one

15:13:55 <gavinc> s/gavinc/ericP
15:14:11 <yvesr> ericP: i expect there will be some pushback

Eric Prud'hommeaux: i expect there will be some pushback

15:14:15 <ivan> close action-246

Ivan Herman: close ACTION-246

15:14:15 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-246 Remove #localName_with_PN_CHARS_BASE_character_boundaries.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ACTION-246 Remove #localName_with_PN_CHARS_BASE_character_boundaries.

15:14:24 <ivan> action-245?

Ivan Herman: ACTION-245?

15:14:24 <trackbot> ACTION-245 -- Eric Prud'hommeaux to (with Sandro) to copy or proxy Turtletests2013 to http://www.w3.org/2013/Turtletests/..., updating all base or ttl references to http://example/base/ to be http://www.w3.org/2013/Turtletests/ -- due 2013-04-03 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-245 -- Eric Prud'hommeaux to (with Sandro) to copy or proxy Turtletests2013 to http://www.w3.org/2013/Turtletests/..., updating all base or ttl references to http://example/base/ to be http://www.w3.org/2013/Turtletests/ -- due 2013-04-03 -- OPEN

15:14:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/245

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/245

15:14:28 <yvesr> ... as people need to look up approved tests before running them

... as people need to look up approved tests before running them

15:14:32 <gavinc> That's dependent on me finishing

Gavin Carothers: That's dependent on me finishing

15:14:52 <yvesr> ericP: has the license issue been sorted?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: has the license issue been sorted?

15:14:55 <yvesr> gavinc: no, not yet

Gavin Carothers: no, not yet

15:15:04 <ivan> action-225?

Ivan Herman: ACTION-225?

15:15:04 <trackbot> ACTION-225 -- Eric Prud'hommeaux to update extension request with Turtle publication dates -- due 2013-01-30 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-225 -- Eric Prud'hommeaux to update extension request with Turtle publication dates -- due 2013-01-30 -- OPEN

15:15:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/225

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/225

15:15:30 <ivan> close action-225

Ivan Herman: close ACTION-225

15:15:30 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-225 Update extension request with Turtle publication dates.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ACTION-225 Update extension request with Turtle publication dates.

15:15:39 <yvesr> ericP: it is overtaken by events - it was for the CR publication

Eric Prud'hommeaux: it is overtaken by events - it was for the CR publication

15:16:01 <yvesr> ... About ACTION-245, I am still getting comments from the list on tests

... About ACTION-245, I am still getting comments from the list on tests

15:16:08 <yvesr> ... we made a decision last week to approve the tests

... we made a decision last week to approve the tests

15:16:19 <yvesr> ... some of the corrections I am seeing from the comments list are corrections

... some of the corrections I am seeing from the comments list are corrections

15:16:27 <gavinc> We had invalid Test case N-Triples as well

Gavin Carothers: We had invalid Test case N-Triples as well

15:16:50 <yvesr> ... escaping, case, etc. - should we normalise what to do with escaped characters?

... escaping, case, etc. - should we normalise what to do with escaped characters?

15:17:04 <yvesr> gavinc: we did resolve that - there is only one way to represent each character in n-triples

Gavin Carothers: we did resolve that - there is only one way to represent each character in n-triples

15:17:20 <yvesr> ... There are a couple of edge-cases

... There are a couple of edge-cases

15:17:39 <yvesr> ... If we get further comments, we'll need to reapprove the test suite

... If we get further comments, we'll need to reapprove the test suite

15:18:03 <ivan> Topic: JSON-LD

1. JSON-LD

15:18:04 <yvesr> ivan: next topic is JSON-LD

Ivan Herman: next topic is JSON-LD

15:18:22 <yvesr> ... We have 3 reviews, could we get an overview of them?

... We have 3 reviews, could we get an overview of them?

15:18:32 <yvesr> manu: Markus has been dealing with the comments

Manu Sporny: Markus has been dealing with the comments

15:18:42 <yvesr> ... We do have one thing the RDF WG probably wants to look at

... We do have one thing the RDF WG probably wants to look at

15:18:45 <Zakim> -EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP

15:18:49 <yvesr> markus: most of the feedbacks are editorial

Markus Lanthaler: most of the feedbacks are editorial

15:18:59 <yvesr> ... sandro replied he's happy with the changes

... sandro replied he's happy with the changes

15:19:08 <yvesr> ... one comment from zwu2 was about the algorithm - they are too long

... one comment from zwu2 was about the algorithm - they are too long

15:19:14 <yvesr> ... but we decided not to change them

... but we decided not to change them

15:19:37 <Zakim> +Philippe

Zakim IRC Bot: +Philippe

15:19:49 <yvesr> Zakim, who is speaking?

Zakim, who is speaking?

15:20:01 <Zakim> yvesr, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: markus (3%), zwu2 (99%)

Zakim IRC Bot: yvesr, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: markus (3%), zwu2 (99%)

15:20:24 <yvesr> zwu2: It would be nice to modularise the algorithm description - it is very long

Zhe Wu: It would be nice to modularise the algorithm description - it is very long

15:20:36 <yvesr> ... I understand it is a big effort, so I am willing to let it pass

... I understand it is a big effort, so I am willing to let it pass

15:21:04 <yvesr> manu: We did start out with a fairly modularised way of explaining the algorithm

Manu Sporny: We did start out with a fairly modularised way of explaining the algorithm

15:21:28 <yvesr> ... when implementers were reading the spec, they were very confused, as you needed to jump between different points of the spec

... when implementers were reading the spec, they were very confused, as you needed to jump between different points of the spec

15:22:00 <yvesr> ... implementers seem to prefer the non-modularized versions

... implementers seem to prefer the non-modularized versions

15:22:03 <gavinc> yay :D

Gavin Carothers: yay :D

15:22:11 <yvesr> manu: as they are much easiers to read

Manu Sporny: as they are much easiers to read

15:22:48 <yvesr> ... the algorithm are long and verbose for a reason

... the algorithm are long and verbose for a reason

15:22:57 <yvesr> ... we want to be clear about what they're doing

... we want to be clear about what they're doing

15:23:07 <yvesr> ivan: I think we can move on with this

Ivan Herman: I think we can move on with this

15:23:32 <yvesr> markus: the only other issue which hasn't been addressed is the data round-tripping section

Markus Lanthaler: the only other issue which hasn't been addressed is the data round-tripping section

15:23:51 <yvesr> ... where we specify how e.g. json true and false are converted to RDF

... where we specify how e.g. json true and false are converted to RDF

15:23:59 <sandro> q+ to ask about lists-of-lists

Sandro Hawke: q+ to ask about lists-of-lists

15:24:02 <yvesr> ... sandro raised some concerns about that

... sandro raised some concerns about that

15:24:18 <yvesr> ivan: what about the third review from charles?

Ivan Herman: what about the third review from charles?

15:24:35 <yvesr> manu: it was mostly editorial comments

Manu Sporny: it was mostly editorial comments

15:24:51 <yvesr> ivan: so we only need to discuss sandro's comment

Ivan Herman: so we only need to discuss sandro's comment

15:25:08 <ivan> ack sandro

Ivan Herman: ack sandro

15:25:08 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to ask about lists-of-lists

Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, you wanted to ask about lists-of-lists

15:25:14 <yvesr> markus: yes, i think that's right - we would be OK to go to LC

Markus Lanthaler: yes, i think that's right - we would be OK to go to LC

15:25:44 <sandro> manu: we agreed to add At Risk for the list-of-lists thing

Manu Sporny: we agreed to add At Risk for the list-of-lists thing [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:25:48 <yvesr> gkellogg: marking the list-of-lists as 'at-risk' but it would cause a bit of a mess

Gregg Kellogg: marking the list-of-lists as 'at-risk' but it would cause a bit of a mess

15:26:26 <yvesr> markus: it's worth to say that list-of-lists are supported

Markus Lanthaler: it's worth to say that list-of-lists are supported

15:26:43 <yvesr> ... but there isn't a simple way to express that in short-form in JSON-LD

... but there isn't a simple way to express that in short-form in JSON-LD

15:26:57 <yvesr> sandro: I missed the fact you could use first/rest

Sandro Hawke: I missed the fact you could use first/rest

15:27:07 <yvesr> ... If you can, then I can live with it

... If you can, then I can live with it

15:27:18 <yvesr> ... I am certainly happy with the at-risk solution

... I am certainly happy with the at-risk solution

15:27:27 <markus> Here's the list of the features at risk: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/JSON-LD_Features_at_Risk

Markus Lanthaler: Here's the list of the features at risk: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/JSON-LD_Features_at_Risk

15:27:36 <yvesr> ivan: so the only other issue is the round-tripping?

Ivan Herman: so the only other issue is the round-tripping?

15:27:41 <yvesr> manu: yes

Manu Sporny: yes

15:28:09 <yvesr> sandro: I sent this in an email just before the meeting started

Sandro Hawke: I sent this in an email just before the meeting started

15:28:32 <yvesr> ... If you have an RDF graph if you have things like doubles in it, which can be expressed in JSON

... If you have an RDF graph if you have things like doubles in it, which can be expressed in JSON

15:28:47 <yvesr> ... there are situations where you can export to JSON and back again

... there are situations where you can export to JSON and back again

15:28:53 <yvesr> ... and not end up with the same graph

... and not end up with the same graph

15:29:01 <yvesr> ... e.g. when the literal is not in canonical form

... e.g. when the literal is not in canonical form

15:29:18 <yvesr> ... or when using doubles

... or when using doubles

15:29:21 <Guus> for the agenda: see my admin message about the 4 FPWDs

Guus Schreiber: for the agenda: see my admin message about the 4 FPWDs

15:29:40 <yvesr> ... you could keep it in expanded type in JSON-LD rather than native type

... you could keep it in expanded type in JSON-LD rather than native type

15:29:58 <yvesr> ... which would ensure you end up with the same graph

... which would ensure you end up with the same graph

15:30:04 <manu> q+

Manu Sporny: q+

15:30:05 <yvesr> ... the question is, do we care?

... the question is, do we care?

15:30:14 <ivan> ack manu

Ivan Herman: ack manu

15:30:43 <yvesr> manu: the guidance we give in the JSON-LD API spec is that if accuracy of numbers are important, use a string to express them

Manu Sporny: the guidance we give in the JSON-LD API spec is that if accuracy of numbers are important, use a string to express them

15:30:59 <yvesr> ... and type it with xsd:double

... and type it with xsd:double

15:31:15 <yvesr> ... if you use JSON native types, then you will have rounding issues

... if you use JSON native types, then you will have rounding issues

15:31:39 <gkellogg> that flag is in fromRDF, not for native JSON-LD

Gregg Kellogg: that flag is in fromRDF, not for native JSON-LD

15:31:41 <yvesr> ... if the 'use native type' flag is off, then no rounding issues

... if the 'use native type' flag is off, then no rounding issues

15:31:48 <ericP> iirc, XML Schema requires preservation of 18 digits on doubles

Eric Prud'hommeaux: iirc, XML Schema requires preservation of 18 digits on doubles

15:31:51 <TallTed> may need to include something like -- http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms716298%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

Ted Thibodeau: may need to include something like -- http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms716298%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

15:31:58 <yvesr> ... The other advice we give in the spec is how to express the canonical lexical form

... The other advice we give in the spec is how to express the canonical lexical form

15:32:06 <TallTed> which data types convert cleanly, which have issues such as were just flagged

Ted Thibodeau: which data types convert cleanly, which have issues such as were just flagged

15:32:08 <yvesr> ... there is an interoperability issue some of us are concerned about

... there is an interoperability issue some of us are concerned about

15:32:14 <yvesr> ... captured in the test suite

... captured in the test suite

15:32:30 <gavinc> JSON has interop issues with large numbers ;) It's sadly not a JSON-LD issue

Gavin Carothers: JSON has interop issues with large numbers ;) It's sadly not a JSON-LD issue

15:32:41 <yvesr> ... The guidance we tell people is that you must use the string format when you convert a string literal with an xsd:double datatype

... The guidance we tell people is that you must use the string format when you convert a string literal with an xsd:double datatype

15:32:42 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

15:33:09 <gavinc> +1 sounds very reasonable!

Gavin Carothers: +1 sounds very reasonable!

15:33:12 <TallTed> explicit example is the numeric conversions page, here -- http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms714147%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

Ted Thibodeau: explicit example is the numeric conversions page, here -- http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms714147%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

15:33:14 <yvesr> manu: Do we want to do something else in the JSON-LD API spec?

Manu Sporny: Do we want to do something else in the JSON-LD API spec?

15:33:16 <ivan> q?

Ivan Herman: q?

15:33:41 <gavinc> q+

Gavin Carothers: q+

15:33:44 <yvesr> sandro: I don't like the API flag - I don't think people are going to know how to use them

Sandro Hawke: I don't like the API flag - I don't think people are going to know how to use them

15:33:52 <yvesr> ... It depends on the data

... It depends on the data

15:33:56 <yvesr> manu: It depends on the application

Manu Sporny: It depends on the application

15:34:03 <TallTed> q+

Ted Thibodeau: q+

15:34:18 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

15:34:18 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted

15:34:36 <ivan> ack gavinc

Ivan Herman: ack gavinc

15:34:37 <yvesr> manu: We tried to make the documentation very clear around rounding errors introduced by native JSON datatypes

Manu Sporny: We tried to make the documentation very clear around rounding errors introduced by native JSON datatypes

15:34:39 <cygri> castToNativeType?

Richard Cyganiak: castToNativeType?

15:34:52 <yvesr> gavinc: JSON and JS do not specify the exact behavior of numbers

Gavin Carothers: JSON and JS do not specify the exact behavior of numbers

15:35:09 <yvesr> ... they are plenty of incompatible JSON implementations in terms of numbers

... they are plenty of incompatible JSON implementations in terms of numbers

15:35:18 <ivan> ack TallTed

Ivan Herman: ack TallTed

15:35:41 <yvesr> TallTed: It would be worth introducing a table of conversions in the spec

Ted Thibodeau: It would be worth introducing a table of conversions in the spec

15:36:03 <yvesr> ... What are the status messages you get back when errors are introduced?

... What are the status messages you get back when errors are introduced?

15:36:23 <yvesr> manu: We would have to make one table per implementation - which would be very hard

Manu Sporny: We would have to make one table per javascript implementation - which would be very hard

15:36:35 <yvesr> s/per implementation/per javascript implementation
15:36:42 <yvesr> gkellogg: it's also all the JSON processors

Gregg Kellogg: it's also all the JSON processors

15:36:42 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

15:36:49 <yvesr> TallTed: so basically JSON doesn't preserve data?

Ted Thibodeau: so basically JSON doesn't preserve data?

15:36:57 <yvesr> markus: It's just not specified

Markus Lanthaler: It's just not specified

15:37:04 <gavinc> or python! until you run out of memory bit!

Gavin Carothers: or python! until you run out of memory bit!

15:37:09 <pchampin> q+

Pierre-Antoine Champin: q+

15:37:28 <yvesr> manu: lots of people use JSON to exchange data and it doesn't seem to have caused any issues

Manu Sporny: lots of people use JSON to exchange data and it doesn't seem to have caused any issues

15:37:37 <ivan> ack pchampin

Ivan Herman: ack pchampin

15:37:41 <yvesr> pchampin: I see two things about the useNativeDatatype flag

Pierre-Antoine Champin: I see two things about the useNativeDatatype flag

15:37:49 <yvesr> ... the first one is that you may have rounding problems

... the first one is that you may have rounding problems

15:38:04 <yvesr> ... the second one is that even without it, you end up in an interoperability issue

... the second one is that even without it, you end up in an interoperability issue

15:38:17 <yvesr> ... it should be said in the specification

... it should be said in the specification

15:38:38 <yvesr> ... that round-tripping is not possible in this case

... that round-tripping is not possible in this case

15:38:40 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

15:38:44 <sandro> q+

Sandro Hawke: q+

15:38:46 <manu> q+

Manu Sporny: q+

15:38:51 <manu> q-

Manu Sporny: q-

15:38:58 <ivan> ack sandro

Ivan Herman: ack sandro

15:39:01 <yvesr> pchampin: If you care about round tripping, this flag should be set to off

Pierre-Antoine Champin: If you care about round tripping, this flag should be set to off

15:39:07 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:39:07 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted

15:39:26 <yvesr> sandro: I know JS requires IEEE 24 bits, I didn't realise people implemented JSON at a lower level than JS

Sandro Hawke: I know JS requires IEEE 24 bits, I didn't realise people implemented JSON at a lower level than JS

15:39:30 <pchampin> pchampin: if I care about round tripping preserving the lexical values of literals, this flag should be set to off

Pierre-Antoine Champin: if I care about round tripping preserving the lexical values of literals, this flag should be set to off [ Scribe Assist by Pierre-Antoine Champin ]

15:39:41 <TallTed> +1 sandro

Ted Thibodeau: +1 sandro

15:39:49 <yvesr> ... If you care about data integrity - this flag should be set to off

... If you care about data integrity - this flag should be set to off

15:40:19 <yvesr> ivan: So if this is closed, where are we exactly wrt JSON-LD to LC?

Ivan Herman: So if this is closed, where are we exactly wrt JSON-LD to LC?

15:40:29 <yvesr> markus: That's the only remaining change we need to make

Markus Lanthaler: That's the only remaining change we need to make

15:40:39 <sandro> WebIDL

Sandro Hawke: WebIDL

15:40:47 <yvesr> ivan: the LC shows the design is done

Ivan Herman: the LC shows the design is done

15:41:08 <yvesr> ... Let's discuss that later, but can we plan that next week we vote for LC?

... Let's discuss that later, but can we plan that next week we vote for LC?

15:41:10 <yvesr> markus: sure

Markus Lanthaler: sure

15:41:14 <gkellogg> agreed

Gregg Kellogg: agreed

15:41:36 <yvesr> ACTION: WG to resolve on LC status on 10/04/2013

ACTION: WG to resolve on LC status on 10/04/2013

15:41:36 <trackbot> Error finding 'WG'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Error finding 'WG'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>.

15:41:44 <manu> So, we're going to shoot for a LC of JSON-LD and JSON-LD API for April 19th 2013...

Manu Sporny: So, we're going to shoot for a LC of JSON-LD and JSON-LD API for April 19th 2013...

15:41:48 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me

15:41:48 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted

15:41:56 <ivan> Topic: redefinition of blank nodes

2. redefinition of blank nodes

15:41:57 <yvesr> ACTION: davidwood to resolve with WG on LC status of JSON-LD on 10/04/2013

ACTION: davidwood to resolve with WG on LC status of JSON-LD on 10/04/2013

15:41:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-249 - Resolve with WG on LC status of JSON-LD on 10/04/2013 [on David Wood - due 2013-04-10].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-249 - Resolve with WG on LC status of JSON-LD on 10/04/2013 [on David Wood - due 2013-04-10].

15:42:02 <manu> (just to be clear about what the JSON-LD editors and CG are going to shoot for)

Manu Sporny: (just to be clear about what the JSON-LD editors and CG are going to shoot for)

15:42:04 <ivan> issue-107?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-107?

15:42:04 <trackbot> ISSUE-107 -- Revised definition of blank nodes -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-107 -- Revised definition of blank nodes -- open

15:42:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/107

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/107

15:42:11 <sandro> ivan, are we going to talk about Guus' report of not publishing as planned?

Sandro Hawke: ivan, are we going to talk about Guus' report of not publishing as planned?

15:43:13 <yvesr> pfps: I went through both concepts and semantics, they describe the current situation quite well already

Peter Patel-Schneider: I went through both concepts and semantics, they describe the current situation quite well already

15:43:18 <yvesr> ... they only need tiny changes

... they only need tiny changes

15:43:47 <yvesr> ... What it doesn't have is an explanation of what the change is

... What it doesn't have is an explanation of what the change is

15:43:54 <yvesr> ... It needs to be added to concepts or primer

... It needs to be added to concepts or primer

15:44:38 <yvesr> ivan: It would be good to have an explicit action on cygri and path to check whether it's fine with them

Ivan Herman: It would be good to have an explicit action on cygri and path to check whether it's fine with them

15:45:17 <yvesr> ACTION: cygri to review pfps's proposal on ISSUE-107

ACTION: cygri to review pfps's proposal on ISSUE-107

15:45:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-250 - Review pfps's proposal on ISSUE-107 [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2013-04-10].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-250 - Review pfps's proposal on ISSUE-107 [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2013-04-10].

15:45:35 <yvesr> cygri: Happy to take the action, however I don't see how that would close the issue

Richard Cyganiak: Happy to take the action, however I don't see how that would close the issue

15:46:46 <yvesr> topic: Update on publications

3. Update on publications

15:47:15 <yvesr> ivan: The plan is to publish the first public working draft tomorrow

Ivan Herman: The plan is to publish the first public working draft tomorrow

15:47:58 <yvesr> sandro: They need to be using the latest version of respec

Sandro Hawke: They need to be using the latest version of respec

15:48:11 <yvesr> pfps: I don't know what exactly is required

Peter Patel-Schneider: I don't know what exactly is required

15:48:12 <Guus> if Peter can do the links, that would be great

Guus Schreiber: if Peter can do the links, that would be great

15:48:33 <yvesr> pfps: I can fix up the links, but not sure how to rebase respec

Peter Patel-Schneider: I can fix up the links, but not sure how to rebase respec

15:49:15 <yvesr> sandro: We shouldn't have a local copy of respec

Sandro Hawke: We shouldn't have a local copy of respec

15:49:24 <Guus> we should point to the new version, the https version

Guus Schreiber: we should point to the new version, the https version

15:49:42 <Guus> i'll unmute myself

Guus Schreiber: i'll unmute myself

15:49:50 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me

15:49:50 <Zakim> pfps was not muted, pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was not muted, pfps

15:49:51 <Guus> q+

Guus Schreiber: q+

15:49:58 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me

15:49:58 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted

15:50:30 <ivan> ack guus

Ivan Herman: ack guus

15:50:44 <yvesr> Guus: We need to point to the new respec version - what I didn't realise is that it's nice for editing, but difficult for publishing

Guus Schreiber: We need to point to the new respec version - what I didn't realise is that it's nice for editing, but difficult for publishing

15:51:06 <gavinc> Where is the THE ReSPEC?

Gavin Carothers: Where is the THE ReSPEC?

15:51:30 <gavinc> https://github.com/darobin/respec ?

Gavin Carothers: https://github.com/darobin/respec ?

15:51:46 <sandro> The right version is: http://www.w3.org/Tools/respec/respec-w3c-common

Sandro Hawke: The right version is: http://www.w3.org/Tools/respec/respec-w3c-common

15:52:03 <markus> here's the ReSpec script to convert to html on the command line: https://github.com/darobin/respec/blob/develop/tools/respec2html.js

Markus Lanthaler: here's the ReSpec script to convert to html on the command line: https://github.com/darobin/respec/blob/develop/tools/respec2html.js

15:52:18 <yvesr> gavinc: the XHTML processor for respec uses divs instead of sections, the HTML one uses sections

Gavin Carothers: the XHTML processor for respec uses divs instead of sections, the HTML one uses sections

15:52:51 <gkellogg> We should be using the version in w3c space: https://www.w3.org/Tools/respec/respec-w3c-common

Gregg Kellogg: We should be using the version in w3c space: https://www.w3.org/Tools/respec/respec-w3c-common

15:53:09 <gkellogg> That's what the EARL report uses

Gregg Kellogg: That's what the EARL report uses

15:53:11 <pfps> someone has to tell me where the references database is

Peter Patel-Schneider: someone has to tell me where the references database is

15:53:29 <yvesr> Guus: in our repository i created a draft repository with all the documents

Guus Schreiber: in our repository i created a draft repository with all the documents

15:53:44 <yvesr> ericP: We need to do the same across all our different specs

Sandro Hawke: We need to do the same across all our different specs

15:53:58 <yvesr> s/ericP/sandro
15:54:21 <pfps> OK

Peter Patel-Schneider: OK

15:54:23 <sandro> +1 guus saved-from-respec goes in to pub/<shortname>/Overview.html

Sandro Hawke: +1 guus saved-from-respec goes in to pub/<shortname>/Overview.html

15:54:31 <yvesr> Guus: if pfps fixes the links, I can fix the references

Guus Schreiber: if pfps fixes the links, I can fix the references

15:54:33 <gavinc> https://www.w3.org/Tools/respec/respec-w3c-common

Gavin Carothers: https://www.w3.org/Tools/respec/respec-w3c-common

15:55:02 <yvesr> Guus: I may be able to do it tonight, or next Tuesday

Guus Schreiber: I may be able to do it tonight, or next Tuesday

15:55:04 <pfps> I'll work on the links today

Peter Patel-Schneider: I'll work on the links today

15:55:14 <Guus> zakim, mute me

Guus Schreiber: zakim, mute me

15:55:14 <Zakim> Guus_Schreiber should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Guus_Schreiber should now be muted

15:55:15 <ivan> Topic: dependecies

4. dependencies

15:55:31 <yvesr> s/dependecies/dependencies
15:55:40 <yvesr> ivan: We have a bunch of dependencies when we go to CR

Ivan Herman: We have a bunch of dependencies when we go to CR

15:55:49 <yvesr> ... JSON-LD depends on the concepts document

... JSON-LD depends on the concepts document

15:56:03 <yvesr> ... It already depends on the not-yet-existing Schema document

... It already depends on the not-yet-existing Schema document

15:56:18 <yvesr> ... Concepts on DOM4 and HTML5

... Cdepends oncepts depends on DOM4 and HTML5

15:56:25 <yvesr> s/on/depends on/
15:56:38 <yvesr> ... We have the WebID dependency on the JSON-LD API

... We have the WebID dependency on the JSON-LD API

15:56:46 <ericP> q+ to ask if we can refer but shortname to our internal specs 1 version behind the doc being published

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to ask if we can refer but shortname to our internal specs 1 version behind the doc being published

15:56:58 <yvesr> ... Hopefully we can avoid putting documents on hold because of that

... Hopefully we can avoid putting documents on hold because of that

15:57:03 <ivan> ack ericP

Ivan Herman: ack ericP

15:57:04 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to ask if we can refer but shortname to our internal specs 1 version behind the doc being published

Zakim IRC Bot: ericP, you wanted to ask if we can refer but shortname to our internal specs 1 version behind the doc being published

15:57:05 <cygri> q+

Richard Cyganiak: q+

15:57:06 <pfps> were are is our respec publications DB?

Peter Patel-Schneider: were are is our respec publications DB?

15:57:13 <yvesr> ericP: What we try to avoid is to point to first drafts, which can change

Eric Prud'hommeaux: What we try to avoid is to point to first drafts, which can change

15:57:26 <yvesr> ... But we can point to version of documents that are one step behind us

... But we can point to version of documents that are one step behind us

15:57:38 <yvesr> ivan: But HTML5 won't become a PR before 2014

Ivan Herman: But HTML5 won't become a PR before 2014

15:57:55 <yvesr> ... So if we depend on it, we can't go to REC with RDF Concepts before then

... So if we depend on it, we can't go to REC with RDF Concepts before then

15:58:17 <ivan> ack cygri

Ivan Herman: ack cygri

15:58:17 <yvesr> ivan: JSON-LD would like to go to REC quickly, and we might have to wait for Concepts before we do that

Ivan Herman: JSON-LD would like to go to REC quickly, and we might have to wait for Concepts before we do that

15:58:36 <yvesr> cygri: About the DOM4 dependency, there are a couple of options

Richard Cyganiak: About the DOM4 dependency, there are a couple of options

15:58:55 <yvesr> ... When we moved the DOM3 ref to DOM4, we could change that back

... When we moved the DOM3 ref to DOM4, we could change that back

15:58:56 <gavinc> DOM3 is WRONG :P

Gavin Carothers: DOM3 is WRONG :P

15:59:00 <yvesr> ... And still refer to DOM3

... And still refer to DOM3

15:59:13 <yvesr> ... We might have to do some explanation there

... We might have to do some explanation there

15:59:35 <yvesr> ... When we reference the HTML5 parsing algorithm, we might need to describe the output in terms of DOM3

... When we reference the HTML5 parsing algorithm, we might need to describe the output in terms of DOM3

15:59:41 <yvesr> ... So we might need to be careful

... So we might need to be careful

15:59:46 <ericP> q?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q?

15:59:49 <yvesr> ... But that might be the easiest way

... But that might be the easiest way

16:00:09 <yvesr> gavinc: We can refer to DOM3, but every implementers is going to run into bugs

Gavin Carothers: We can refer to DOM3, but every implementers is going to run into bugs

16:00:24 <yvesr> ericP: Are we confident DOM4 is backward-compatible?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: Are we confident DOM4 is backward-compatible?

16:00:29 <yvesr> ivan: Nobody knows

Ivan Herman: Nobody knows

16:00:36 <yvesr> ericP: The WG should have a pretty good idea

Eric Prud'hommeaux: The WG should have a pretty good idea

16:00:42 <gavinc> Reality ;) http://dom.spec.whatwg.org/

Gavin Carothers: Reality ;) http://dom.spec.whatwg.org/

16:00:57 <yvesr> ivan: For the time being all the evolution of DOM4 is happening in the WhatWG

Ivan Herman: For the time being all the evolution of DOM4 is happening in the WhatWG

16:01:36 <yvesr> ivan: Maybe a possibility is to have a normative ref to DOM3, and a note pointing at DOM4 elsewhere in the doc

Ivan Herman: Maybe a possibility is to have a normative ref to DOM3, and a note pointing at DOM4 elsewhere in the doc

16:01:50 <yvesr> ... Not sure how to do that exactly, but there might be some wording that could work

... Not sure how to do that exactly, but there might be some wording that could work

16:02:54 <yvesr> ericP: What's the trick to point people to what they need to read to actually implement it?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: What's the trick to point people to what they need to read to actually implement it?

16:03:04 <Zakim> -manu

Zakim IRC Bot: -manu

16:03:48 <yvesr> ... If I support HTML literals, I will have to read that spec on the WhatWG

... If I support HTML literals, I will have to read that spec on the WhatWG

16:04:48 <yvesr> ... We could move that out of the doc, and push them as notes, but no one would really care

... We could move that out of the doc, and push them as notes, but no one would really care

16:05:10 <yvesr> ivan: Could we push it in a non-normative section?

Ivan Herman: Could we push it in a non-normative section?

16:05:56 <yvesr> ericP: we should really explain what to do with HTML literals - if we don't then it needs to be pushed somewhere else

Eric Prud'hommeaux: we should really explain what to do with HTML literals - if we don't then it needs to be pushed somewhere else

16:07:14 <yvesr> ... We're saying that the processing of XHTML literals has changed - where is the example data showing what's changed?

... We're saying that the processing of XHTML literals has changed - where is the example data showing what's changed?

16:07:56 <Zakim> -Guus_Schreiber

Zakim IRC Bot: -Guus_Schreiber

16:08:36 <yvesr> ACTION: cygri to investigate dependencies in concepts and semantics

ACTION: cygri to investigate dependencies in concepts and semantics

16:08:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-251 - Investigate dependencies in concepts and semantics [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2013-04-10].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-251 - Investigate dependencies in concepts and semantics [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2013-04-10].

16:08:47 <cygri> ACTION-251?

Richard Cyganiak: ACTION-251?

16:08:48 <trackbot> ACTION-251 -- Richard Cyganiak to investigate dependencies in concepts and semantics -- due 2013-04-10 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-251 -- Richard Cyganiak to investigate dependencies in concepts and semantics -- due 2013-04-10 -- OPEN

16:08:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/251

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/251

16:09:06 <yvesr> ivan: Another dependency is WebIDL from JSON-LD

Ivan Herman: Another dependency is WebIDL from JSON-LD

16:09:15 <yvesr> markus: I'll try to figure that out

Markus Lanthaler: I'll try to figure that out

16:09:23 <cygri> (I changed the description of ACTION-251)

Richard Cyganiak: (I changed the description of ACTION-251)

16:09:26 <cygri> ACTION-251?

Richard Cyganiak: ACTION-251?

16:09:26 <trackbot> ACTION-251 -- Richard Cyganiak to investigate dependencies on DOM4 and HTML5 in Concepts -- due 2013-04-10 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-251 -- Richard Cyganiak to investigate dependencies on DOM4 and HTML5 in Concepts -- due 2013-04-10 -- OPEN

16:09:26 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/251

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/251

16:09:48 <yvesr> markus: We have to right a couple of tests ourselves to prove the part we're using is stable enough

Markus Lanthaler: We have to right a couple of tests ourselves to prove the part we're using is stable enough

16:10:02 <yvesr> ... I am working with Robin to address that

... I am working with Robin to address that

16:11:00 <yvesr> ivan: AOB?

Ivan Herman: AOB?

16:11:09 <pchampin> q?

Pierre-Antoine Champin: q?

16:11:12 <zwu2> bye

Zhe Wu: bye

16:11:12 <pchampin> q+

Pierre-Antoine Champin: q+

16:11:24 <Zakim> -zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2

16:11:27 <Zakim> -cgreer

Zakim IRC Bot: -cgreer

16:11:27 <ivan> ack pchampin

Ivan Herman: ack pchampin

16:11:28 <Zakim> -SteveH

Scribe problem: the name 'SteveH' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Steve Harris Steve Harris . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH

16:11:43 <yvesr> pchampin: I was wondering with Turtle being in CR - would it be too late to add a small feature

Pierre-Antoine Champin: I was wondering with Turtle being in CR - would it be too late to add a small feature

16:12:02 <markus> profile media type parameter?

Markus Lanthaler: profile media type parameter?

16:12:04 <cygri> LDP-WG perhaps would like text/turtle;profile=xxx

Richard Cyganiak: LDP-WG perhaps would like text/turtle;profile=xxx

16:12:11 <yvesr> gavinc: Would it be possible to add a parameter to the media-type registration

Pierre-Antoine Champin: Would it be possible to add a parameter to the media-type registration

16:12:21 <pchampin> s/gavinc/pchampin/
16:12:41 <gavinc> why do we want profile?

Gavin Carothers: why do we want profile?

16:12:46 <cygri> q+

Richard Cyganiak: q+

16:13:00 <yvesr> pchampin: I raised this question in the LDP WG

Pierre-Antoine Champin: I raised this question in the LDP WG

16:13:05 <ivan> ack cygri

Ivan Herman: ack cygri

16:13:38 <yvesr> cygri: The LDP WG is considering whether to define a new media type to Turtle

Richard Cyganiak: The LDP WG is considering whether to define a new media type to Turtle

16:13:40 <pchampin> I agree we don't have time to discuss that today;

Pierre-Antoine Champin: I agree we don't have time to discuss that today;

16:13:48 <pchampin> I was just asking to know if it was not too late

Pierre-Antoine Champin: I was just asking to know if it was not too late

16:13:56 <gavinc> or just point to LDP thead... clearly

Gavin Carothers: or just point to LDP thead... clearly

16:13:56 <yvesr> ... Adding a parameter would enable them to avoid that

... Adding a parameter would enable them to avoid that

16:14:06 <pchampin> If it is not, I can send an email as well

Pierre-Antoine Champin: If it is not, I can send an email as well

16:14:13 <Zakim> -Souri

Zakim IRC Bot: -Souri

16:14:22 <Zakim> -AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ

16:14:26 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

16:14:40 <Zakim> -gkellogg

Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg

16:15:27 <yvesr> RRSAgent, make minutes

RRSAgent, make minutes

16:15:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/03-rdf-wg-minutes.html yvesr

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/03-rdf-wg-minutes.html yvesr

16:15:38 <yvesr> RRSAgent: make logs public

RRSAgent IRC Bot: make logs public

16:15:53 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/57 ?

Gavin Carothers: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/57 ?

16:16:08 <Zakim> -yvesr

Zakim IRC Bot: -yvesr

16:16:58 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

16:18:59 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

16:19:00 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted

16:20:31 <Zakim> -GavinC

Zakim IRC Bot: -GavinC



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