edit

Provenance Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 17 January 2013

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.01.17
Seen
Curt Tilmes, Daniel Garijo, Graham Klyne, Hook Hua, Ivan Herman, James Cheney, Khalid Belhajjame, Luc Moreau, Paolo Missier, Paul Groth, Sam Coppens, Satya Sahoo, Simon Miles, Stephan Zednik, Stian Soiland-Reyes, Ted Thibodeau, Timothy Lebo, Tom De Nies, Trung Huynh
Regrets
James Cheney
Chair
Luc Moreau
Scribe
Timothy Lebo
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. last week's minutes link
  2. the group endorses the responses to issues 611 and 612 link
Topics
  1. Admin

  2. Implementations

    Paul reviewed all implementation surveys submitted so far. While the numbers look healthy, it was noted that 7 implementation reports were submitted by Southampton. Many implementers are known to have implemented PROV but have not submitted yet. Group members are strongly reminded to submit their reports. The discussion focused on interoperability pairs. It is important to identify which application one exports provenance to or one imports provenance from. Some generic services such as the provenance validator are hopefully good candidates for interoperability with other applications. Simon and Tom agreed to test their implementations against the validator.

  3. Response to public comments

    the drafted response were approved. Reviewers will be contacted by Paul with the Group responses. Outstanding issues will be tackled in the coming week.

  4. prov-dictionary

    As the editor's draft was just released, it was agreed that reviewers have till Wednesday to complete their review.

  5. prov-aq

    All reviewers have submitted their report. The editors will produced a revised version for the next teleconference (or the following one) and vote for release will then take place.

  6. prov-xml

    Stephan updated the group on recent changes made by editors. He is going to summarise these by email, on the tracker. We then discussed the namespace convention to adopted. The ideal is to align with the conventions we have adapted for the ontology, while still being compatible with the xml approach. Stephan was tasked to come up with a proposal for next teleconference.

15:57:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-prov-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-prov-irc

15:57:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

15:57:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be PROV

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be PROV

15:57:12 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started

15:57:13 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
15:57:13 <trackbot> Date: 17 January 2013
15:57:14 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV

Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV

15:57:14 <Zakim> ok, Luc, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started

15:57:16 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes

Zakim IRC Bot: +Curt_Tilmes

15:57:27 <Luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.01.17
15:57:38 <Luc> Chair: Luc Moreau
15:57:44 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public

15:59:00 <Zakim> + +44.238.059.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.238.059.aaaa

15:59:13 <Luc> zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me

Luc Moreau: zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me

15:59:14 <Zakim> +Luc; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc; got it

15:59:24 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

15:59:26 <Zakim> +??P6

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P6

15:59:33 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P6 is me

Daniel Garijo: Zakim, ??P6 is me

15:59:34 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +dgarijo; got it

15:59:35 <pgroth> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

Paul Groth: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

15:59:35 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it

15:59:54 <dgarijo> Luc, if nobody volunteers, I can be the scribe

Daniel Garijo: Luc, if nobody volunteers, I can be the scribe

16:00:30 <Luc> it's very kind daniel, first, let's see if we can find somebody else,

Luc Moreau: it's very kind daniel, first, let's see if we can find somebody else,

16:00:39 <Luc> zakim, who is here?

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here?

16:00:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see Curt_Tilmes, Luc, pgroth, dgarijo

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Curt_Tilmes, Luc, pgroth, dgarijo

16:00:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see zednik, Paolo, dgarijo, pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, Curt, Luc, TallTed, ivan, trackbot, stain

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see zednik, Paolo, dgarijo, pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, Curt, Luc, TallTed, ivan, trackbot, stain

16:00:43 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:00:54 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

16:00:54 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

16:00:56 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

16:01:00 <Paolo> HI I have done it quite recently but can do it again

Paolo Missier: HI I have done it quite recently but can do it again

16:01:02 <Luc> zakim, who is noisy?

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is noisy?

16:01:02 <Paolo> if needed

Paolo Missier: if needed

16:01:03 <Zakim> + +1.315.330.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.315.330.aabb

16:01:12 <Zakim> Luc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ivan (2%)

Zakim IRC Bot: Luc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ivan (2%)

16:01:20 <TallTed> TallTed has changed the topic to: Provenance WG - http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/ - Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.01.17

Ted Thibodeau: TallTed has changed the topic to: Provenance WG - http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/ - Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.01.17

16:01:20 <tlebo> zakim, who is on the phone?

Timothy Lebo: zakim, who is on the phone?

16:01:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see Curt_Tilmes, Luc, pgroth, dgarijo, [IPcaller], Ivan, +1.315.330.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Curt_Tilmes, Luc, pgroth, dgarijo, [IPcaller], Ivan, +1.315.330.aabb

16:01:26 <tlebo> zakim, I am aabb

Timothy Lebo: zakim, I am aabb

16:01:26 <Zakim> +tlebo; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +tlebo; got it

16:01:47 <Luc> scribe: tlebo

(Scribe set to Timothy Lebo)

16:02:05 <Luc> zakim, who is noisy?

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is noisy?

16:02:16 <Zakim> Luc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ivan (56%)

Zakim IRC Bot: Luc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ivan (56%)

16:02:26 <tlebo> (I think this IRC client has dropped me before, so I might need to hand off to someone mid-stream)

(I think this IRC client has dropped me before, so I might need to hand off to someone mid-stream)

16:02:33 <pgroth> ivan has the loudest keyboard ever

Paul Groth: ivan has the loudest keyboard ever

16:02:37 <ivan> zakim, mute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me

16:02:37 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted

16:02:42 <ivan> :-(

Ivan Herman: :-(

16:02:48 <tlebo> :-)

:-)

16:03:19 <Zakim> +??P41

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P41

16:03:24 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2013-01-10

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2013-01-10

16:03:27 <dgarijo> 0 (I wasn't there)

Daniel Garijo: 0 (I wasn't there)

16:03:28 <tlebo> proposed: approve minutes

PROPOSED: approve minutes

16:03:29 <pgroth> Topic: Admin

1. Admin

16:03:40 <Luc> proposed: to approve last week's minutes

PROPOSED: to approve last week's minutes

16:03:41 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:03:42 <tlebo> 0 (was not here)

0 (was not here)

16:03:48 <Curt> 0 (not present)

Curt Tilmes: 0 (not present)

16:03:48 <Paolo> 0 (missed it)

Paolo Missier: 0 (missed it)

16:03:49 <dgarijo> 0

Daniel Garijo: 0

16:03:52 <smiles> +1

Simon Miles: +1

16:03:56 <Dong> +1

Trung Huynh: +1

16:03:57 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a]

16:04:11 <Luc> resolved:  last week's minutes

RESOLVED: last week's minutes

16:04:34 <tlebo> luc: action on Tim for cross referencing.

Luc Moreau: action on Tim for cross referencing.

16:04:43 <Zakim> +??P22

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22

16:04:46 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo

Zakim IRC Bot: +Satya_Sahoo

16:05:05 <tlebo> tim: I'll look at the cross reference.

Timothy Lebo: I'll look at the cross reference.

16:05:06 <Zakim> +[OpenLink]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[OpenLink]

16:05:06 <Zakim> + +1.818.731.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.818.731.aacc

16:05:12 <TallTed> Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me

16:05:12 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it

16:05:15 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

16:05:15 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted

16:05:17 <tlebo> luc: action on himself...

Luc Moreau: action on himself...

16:05:26 <tlebo> luc: action on Stephan for namespaces.

Luc Moreau: action on Stephan for namespaces.

16:05:40 <tlebo> zednik: have looked at identifiers

Stephan Zednik: have looked at identifiers

16:06:05 <tlebo> pgroth: I've done all actions on me.

Paul Groth: I've done all actions on me.

16:06:22 <Zakim> +??P13

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13

16:06:42 <Luc> topic: Implementations

2. Implementations

Summary: Paul reviewed all implementation surveys submitted so far. While the numbers look healthy, it was noted that 7 implementation reports were submitted by Southampton. Many implementers are known to have implemented PROV but have not submitted yet. Group members are strongly reminded to submit their reports. The discussion focused on interoperability pairs. It is important to identify which application one exports provenance to or one imports provenance from. Some generic services such as the provenance validator are hopefully good candidates for interoperability with other applications. Simon and Tom agreed to test their implementations against the validator.

<LUC>Summary: Paul reviewed all implementation surveys submitted so far. While the numbers look healthy, it was noted that 7 implementation reports were submitted by Southampton. Many implementers are known to have implemented PROV but have not submitted yet. Group members are strongly reminded to submit their reports. The discussion focused on interoperability pairs. It is important to identify which application one exports provenance to or one imports provenance from. Some generic services such as the provenance validator are hopefully good candidates for interoperability with other applications.  Simon and Tom agreed to test their implementations against the validator.
16:06:55 <tlebo> luc: paul went through surveys recently.

Luc Moreau: paul went through surveys recently.

16:07:01 <pgroth> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2013Jan/0073.html

Paul Groth: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2013Jan/0073.html

16:07:02 <dgarijo> I've added all the remaining implementations that I had added in the wiki. Some of them today

Daniel Garijo: I've added all the remaining implementations that I had added in the wiki. Some of them today

16:07:09 <tlebo> pgroth: announced it via email

Paul Groth: announced it via email

16:07:32 <tlebo> ... reports from 9 organizations

... reports from 9 organizations

16:07:58 <tlebo> ... southampton has 7 implementations.

... southampton has 7 implementations.

16:08:01 <Zakim> +Ruben

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ruben

16:08:13 <TomDN> Zakim, +Ruben is me

Tom De Nies: Zakim, +Ruben is me

16:08:13 <Zakim> sorry, TomDN, I do not recognize a party named '+Ruben'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, TomDN, I do not recognize a party named '+Ruben'

16:08:14 <tlebo> ... provo is good track; all constructs supported by 2 sep implementations.

... provo is good track; all constructs supported by 2 sep implementations.

16:08:21 <TomDN> Zakim, Ruben is me

Tom De Nies: Zakim, Ruben is me

16:08:21 <Zakim> +TomDN; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +TomDN; got it

16:08:33 <tlebo> ... provo needs a pair of implmeentations to exchange.

... provo needs a pair of implmeentations to exchange.

16:08:39 <TomDN> Zakim, SamCoppens is with TomDN

Tom De Nies: Zakim, SamCoppens is with TomDN

16:08:39 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SamCoppens; got it

16:08:44 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me

Tom De Nies: Zakim, mute me

16:08:44 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should now be muted

16:08:55 <tlebo> ... it's easy to hit that min by having SH and Kings to exchange prov.

... it's easy to hit that min by having SH and Kings to exchange prov.

16:08:58 <GK_> Zakim, ??p13 is me

Graham Klyne: Zakim, ??p13 is me

16:08:58 <Zakim> +GK_; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +GK_; got it

16:09:11 <tlebo> ... for prov-n it is less satisfying. only 2 orgs: SH and weblab.

... for prov-n it is less satisfying. only 2 orgs: SH and weblab.

16:09:22 <tlebo> ... tom and sam have prov-n implementations.

... tom and sam have prov-n implementations.

16:09:32 <tlebo> ... but do weblab actually support it?

... but do weblab actually support it?

16:09:42 <tlebo> ... they say openRDF sesame as the library (implies prov-o)

... they say openRDF sesame as the library (implies prov-o)

16:09:50 <Paolo> I am going to add implementation with prov-n support

Paolo Missier: I am going to add implementation with prov-n support

16:09:52 <Luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+

16:09:55 <tlebo> ... need to rely on tom/sam implementation

... need to rely on tom/sam implementation

16:09:55 <Paolo> (applications)

Paolo Missier: (applications)

16:10:13 <tlebo> ... constraints: luc's implementation, but we need one more impl.

... constraints: luc's implementation, but we need one more impl.

16:10:31 <pgroth> it's a good thing!

Paul Groth: it's a good thing!

16:10:44 <tlebo> luc: # implementations on southampton, some on different languages.

Luc Moreau: # implementations on southampton, some on different languages.

16:11:00 <tlebo> ... we can demonstrate language independence if not org independence.

... we can demonstrate language independence if not org independence.

16:11:15 <TomDN> Zakim, unmute me

Tom De Nies: Zakim, unmute me

16:11:15 <Zakim> TomDN should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should no longer be muted

16:11:18 <tlebo> ... TomDN implementing? isn't he using the provtoolbox?

... TomDN implementing? isn't he using the provtoolbox?

16:11:46 <Paolo> q+

Paolo Missier: q+

16:11:50 <tlebo> TomDN: not really using the toolbox.

Tom De Nies: not really using the toolbox.

16:12:09 <pgroth> ack Luc

Paul Groth: ack Luc

16:12:15 <pgroth> ace paolo

Paul Groth: ace paolo

16:12:18 <pgroth> ack paolo

Paul Groth: ack paolo

16:12:27 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me

Tom De Nies: Zakim, mute me

16:12:27 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should now be muted

16:12:31 <Luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+

16:12:35 <tlebo> Paolo: Tom's note, if I produce prov-n w/o provtoolbox then it counts as a new implementation.

Paolo Missier: Tom's note, if I produce prov-n w/o provtoolbox then it counts as a new implementation.

16:12:44 <pgroth> ack luc

Paul Groth: ack luc

16:13:02 <tlebo> luc: ideally, we want full independence.

Luc Moreau: ideally, we want full independence.

16:13:13 <tlebo> ... but we made the case that prov-n is aimed at human consumption.

... but we made the case that prov-n is aimed at human consumption.

16:13:19 <tlebo> ... so no need for interoperability.

... so no need for interoperability.

16:13:46 <TomDN> Zakim, unmute me

Tom De Nies: Zakim, unmute me

16:13:46 <Zakim> TomDN should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should no longer be muted

16:13:49 <tlebo> pgroth: for prov-n, does TomDN consume prov info as prov-n?

Paul Groth: for prov-n, does TomDN consume prov info as prov-n?

16:13:50 <Luc> prov-dm contains examples of prov-dm, consumable by prov toolbox. So it's a pair!

Luc Moreau: prov-dm contains examples of prov-dm, consumable by prov toolbox. So it's a pair!

16:14:01 <Luc> prov-dm contains examples of PROV-N, consumable by prov toolbox. So it's a pair!

Luc Moreau: prov-dm contains examples of PROV-N, consumable by prov toolbox. So it's a pair!

16:14:19 <tlebo> TomDN: I read it == I evaluate. It generates it == write.

Tom De Nies: I read it == I evaluate. It generates it == write.

16:14:23 <GK> A precedent we might look at is the "human" syntax(es) for OWL - what do they do?

Graham Klyne: A precedent we might look at is the "human" syntax(es) for OWL - what do they do?

16:14:39 <Luc> @TomDN, can you validate your prov-n with my validator?

Luc Moreau: @TomDN, can you validate your prov-n with my validator?

16:15:12 <tlebo> TomDN: I can produce a file from my tool as prov-n.

Tom De Nies: I can produce a file from my tool as prov-n.

16:15:18 <Luc> @TomDN, can you paste your prov-n into http://openprovenance.org/prov/validator.html

Luc Moreau: @TomDN, can you paste your prov-n into http://openprovenance.org/prov/validator.html

16:15:25 <tlebo> pgroth: we want to give TomDN's prov-n to luc's validator.

Paul Groth: we want to give TomDN's prov-n to luc's validator.

16:15:33 <tlebo> ... then we have a pair.

... then we have a pair.

16:15:41 <Luc> or  http://openprovenance.org/prov/translator.html

Luc Moreau: or http://openprovenance.org/prov/translator.html

16:16:00 <tlebo> pgroth: tom doens't use all of the constructs.

Paul Groth: tom doens't use all of the constructs.

16:16:05 <tlebo> TomDN: no.

Tom De Nies: no.

16:16:11 <tlebo> pgroth: extend to use other constructs?

Paul Groth: extend to use other constructs?

16:16:14 <tlebo> TomDN: not easy.

Tom De Nies: not easy.

16:16:27 <Luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+

16:16:32 <pgroth> ack Luc

Paul Groth: ack Luc

16:16:47 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me

Tom De Nies: Zakim, mute me

16:16:47 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should now be muted

16:16:58 <tlebo> Luc: prov-dm doc is an example of prov-n generation. so all statements can be validated by toolbox.

Luc Moreau: prov-dm doc is an example of prov-n generation. so all statements can be validated by toolbox.

16:17:02 <tlebo> .. thus an interop pair

.. thus an interop pair

16:17:27 <tlebo> pgroth: we need to add it to the quesionnaire

Paul Groth: we need to add it to the quesionnaire

16:17:33 <TomDN> (I will provide some rationale on my questionaire answers to explain the read/write answers

Tom De Nies: (I will provide some rationale on my questionaire answers to explain the read/write answers

16:17:48 <tlebo> pgroth: we should do it as the WG

Paul Groth: we should do it as the WG

16:17:49 <GK> q+ to suggest looking in to how http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/REC-owl2-syntax-20121211/ was handled

Graham Klyne: q+ to suggest looking in to how http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/REC-owl2-syntax-20121211/ was handled

16:18:01 <Zakim> -GK_

Zakim IRC Bot: -GK_

16:18:06 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.aa]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.aa]

16:18:07 <GK> Losrt my client

Graham Klyne: Losrt my client

16:18:08 <tlebo> pgroth: we seem to have coverage on prov-n (with these steps)

Paul Groth: we seem to have coverage on prov-n (with these steps)

16:18:23 <GK> Sorry lost connection

Graham Klyne: Sorry lost connection

16:18:23 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:18:37 <Zakim> +??P13

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13

16:18:46 <pgroth> q+ to say we need a pair for prov-o

Paul Groth: q+ to say we need a pair for prov-o

16:18:46 <GK> zakim, ??p13 is me

Graham Klyne: zakim, ??p13 is me

16:18:47 <Zakim> +GK; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +GK; got it

16:18:51 <tlebo> Luc: please submit the implementation reports.

Luc Moreau: please submit the implementation reports.

16:18:58 <stain> Zakim, ??P13 is me

Stian Soiland-Reyes: Zakim, ??P13 is me

16:18:58 <Zakim> I already had ??P13 as GK, stain

Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P13 as GK, stain

16:19:08 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.aa]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller.aa]

16:19:19 <tlebo> GK: prov-n and interop -- find out what OWL WG did with their functional syntax.

Graham Klyne: prov-n and interop -- find out what OWL WG did with their functional syntax.

16:19:25 <tlebo> ... it's similar role.

... it's similar role.

16:19:28 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:19:32 <ivan> unmute ivan

Ivan Herman: unmute ivan

16:19:34 <Luc> ack gk

Luc Moreau: ack gk

16:19:34 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to suggest looking in to how http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/REC-owl2-syntax-20121211/ was handled

Zakim IRC Bot: GK, you wanted to suggest looking in to how http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/REC-owl2-syntax-20121211/ was handled

16:19:39 <ivan> zakim, unmute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute me

16:19:39 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should no longer be muted

16:20:15 <pgroth> i think we have a solution now for prov-n

Paul Groth: i think we have a solution now for prov-n

16:20:15 <tlebo> ivan: i don't remember how function syntax was handled. it was just a specification language - not a cand rec requiement to parse it.

Ivan Herman: i don't remember how function syntax was handled. it was just a specification language - not a cand rec requiement to parse it.

16:20:16 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:20:38 <tlebo> ... for OWL systems, they needed to exchange RDF/XML. the ONLY one.

... for OWL systems, they needed to exchange RDF/XML. the ONLY one.

16:20:39 <GK> That was my guess - I think PROV-N might be presented similarly?

Graham Klyne: That was my guess - I think PROV-N might be presented similarly?

16:20:45 <pgroth> Tom's implementation + validator  and prov-dm docs + validator

Paul Groth: Tom's implementation + validator and prov-dm docs + validator

16:20:45 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:20:48 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

16:20:48 <Zakim> pgroth, you wanted to say we need a pair for prov-o

Zakim IRC Bot: pgroth, you wanted to say we need a pair for prov-o

16:21:03 <tlebo> pgroth: provo coverage is fine, we need some pairs.

Paul Groth: provo coverage is fine, we need some pairs.

16:21:09 <Zakim> +??P44

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P44

16:21:15 <tlebo> ... could simon and luc make that pair?

... could simon and luc make that pair?

16:21:48 <tlebo> Luc: the service is available online. anyone can paste them in to validator or translator.

Luc Moreau: the service is available online. anyone can paste them in to validator or translator.

16:21:52 <tlebo> ... they can just report it.

... they can just report it.

16:21:56 <smiles> Luc - Can you give the URL again?

Simon Miles: Luc - Can you give the URL again?

16:22:07 <stain> Zakim: ??P44 is me
16:22:11 <stain> Zakim, ??P44 is me

Stian Soiland-Reyes: Zakim, ??P44 is me

16:22:11 <Zakim> +stain; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +stain; got it

16:22:11 <tlebo> pgroth: a pair isn't one directional?

Paul Groth: a pair isn't one directional?

16:22:22 <stain> Zakim, ??P44 is also khalidBelhajjame

Stian Soiland-Reyes: Zakim, ??P44 is also khalidBelhajjame

16:22:22 <Zakim> I don't understand '??P44 is also khalidBelhajjame', stain

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand '??P44 is also khalidBelhajjame', stain

16:22:25 <tlebo> pgroth: simon, dump out provo and validate it?

Paul Groth: simon, dump out provo and validate it?

16:22:34 <tlebo> smiles: yes, if it takes turtle

Simon Miles: yes, if it takes turtle

16:22:36 <ivan> zakim, mute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me

16:22:36 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted

16:22:50 <Luc> http://openprovenance.org/prov/validator.html

Luc Moreau: http://openprovenance.org/prov/validator.html

16:23:01 <tlebo> Luc: anybody can do that.

Luc Moreau: anybody can do that.

16:23:04 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:23:04 <pgroth> constraints

Paul Groth: constraints

16:23:04 <GK> I think producer -> consumer (one way) is OK - it shoews two developers read spec and had some common understanding

Graham Klyne: I think producer -> consumer (one way) is OK - it shoews two developers read spec and had some common understanding

16:23:11 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:23:30 <tlebo> pgroth: constraints. luc did them, pgroth is slowing working them.

Paul Groth: constraints. luc did them, pgroth is slowing working them.

16:23:41 <tlebo> ... obviously good to have more than 2

... obviously good to have more than 2

16:23:47 <tlebo> ... or even if other parts of implementations.

... or even if other parts of implementations.

16:23:59 <tlebo> ... 47 unit tests away from full coverage.

... 47 unit tests away from full coverage.

16:24:16 <tlebo> ... shoiuld be able to do it.

... shoiuld be able to do it.

16:24:21 <tlebo> +1 :-)

+1 :-)

16:24:35 <tlebo> luc: Paolo was working on partial constriants

Luc Moreau: Paolo was working on partial constriants

16:24:44 <Luc> Regrets: jcheney
16:24:53 <TomDN> Does your implementation need to be completely finished by Jan. 31st?

Tom De Nies: Does your implementation need to be completely finished by Jan. 31st?

16:24:57 <tlebo> Paolo: jun and I havent' worked on it.

Paolo Missier: jun and I havent' worked on it.

16:25:07 <pgroth> @TomDN it's about the report really

Paul Groth: @TomDN it's about the report really

16:25:17 <tlebo> Luc: when? by end of month?

Luc Moreau: when? by end of month?

16:25:20 <tlebo> Paolo: not by then.

Paolo Missier: not by then.

16:25:26 <pgroth> +q to ask about stardog

Paul Groth: +q to ask about stardog

16:25:29 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:25:31 <TomDN> @pgroth, thanks, that's what i thought

Tom De Nies: @pgroth, thanks, that's what i thought

16:25:55 <tlebo> pgroth: we knwo there are implementations out there than what is reported.

Paul Groth: we knwo there are implementations out there than what is reported.

16:26:04 <tlebo> ... we should all sign up to report implementations.

... we should all sign up to report implementations.

16:26:22 <tlebo> ... e.g. stardog is doing it.

... e.g. stardog is doing it.

16:26:27 <tlebo> ... approach individually.

... approach individually.

16:26:50 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:26:52 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

16:26:52 <Zakim> pgroth, you wanted to ask about stardog

Zakim IRC Bot: pgroth, you wanted to ask about stardog

16:26:54 <tlebo> (I tried to poke the LInkedTV via twitter yesterday -- it's not coming out till Feb)

(I tried to poke the LInkedTV via twitter yesterday -- it's not coming out till Feb)

16:27:01 <pgroth> but there's also dbpedia, and qudt, etc

Paul Groth: but there's also dbpedia, and qudt, etc

16:27:04 <Luc> topic: Response to public comments

3. Response to public comments

Summary: the drafted response were approved. Reviewers will be contacted by Paul with the Group responses. Outstanding issues will be tackled in the coming week.

<luc>Summary: the drafted response were approved. Reviewers will be contacted by Paul with the Group responses. Outstanding issues will be tackled in the coming week.
16:27:08 <tlebo> zakim, who is making noise?

zakim, who is making noise?

16:27:09 <pgroth> simon can you mute

Paul Groth: simon can you mute

16:27:12 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicCommentsCR

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicCommentsCR

16:27:18 <Zakim> tlebo, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Luc (83%), ??P41 (28%)

Zakim IRC Bot: tlebo, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Luc (83%), ??P41 (28%)

16:27:30 <pgroth> zakim, mute ??P41

Paul Groth: zakim, mute ??P41

16:27:30 <Zakim> ??P41 should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: ??P41 should now be muted

16:27:30 <GK> (There's also the possibility of submitting "third party" reports for public implemenbtations)

Graham Klyne: (There's also the possibility of submitting "third party" reports for public implemenbtations)

16:27:43 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:27:47 <pgroth> @GK i didn't no that

Paul Groth: @GK i didn't know that

16:27:52 <pgroth> s/no/know
16:28:00 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:28:09 <Luc> Proposed: the group endorses the responses to issues 611 and 612

PROPOSED: the group endorses the responses to issues 611 and 612

16:28:14 <TomDN> +1

Tom De Nies: +1

16:28:17 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:28:18 <khalidBelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1

16:28:18 <tlebo> +1

+1

16:28:19 <satya> +1

Satya Sahoo: +1

16:28:21 <zednik> +1

Stephan Zednik: +1

16:28:23 <stain> +1

Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1

16:28:26 <Dong> +q

Trung Huynh: +q

16:28:26 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

16:28:27 <GK> @paul - I don't *know* that, but I can't see any reason why now

Graham Klyne: @paul - I don't *know* that, but I can't see any reason why now

16:28:34 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1

16:28:36 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:28:36 <dgarijo> +0 (I haven't reviewed them yet)

Daniel Garijo: +0 (I haven't reviewed them yet)

16:28:38 <hook> +1

Hook Hua: +1

16:28:39 <smiles> +1 (noting that I sent a suggestion just before this call)

Simon Miles: +1 (noting that I sent a suggestion just before this call)

16:28:41 <GK> +0

Graham Klyne: +0

16:28:50 <Paolo> 0 haven't reviewed in detail

Paolo Missier: 0 haven't reviewed in detail

16:28:53 <Luc> Resolved: the group endorses the responses to issues 611 and 612

RESOLVED: the group endorses the responses to issues 611 and 612

16:28:54 <Curt> +0 (haven't reviewed)

Curt Tilmes: +0 (haven't reviewed)

16:29:04 <stain> @TallTed what happened to McTed over New Year? :)

Stian Soiland-Reyes: @TallTed what happened to McTed over New Year? :)

16:29:13 <tlebo> luc: who to respond to reviewers?

Luc Moreau: who to respond to reviewers?

16:29:15 <Dong> q-

Trung Huynh: q-

16:29:15 <pgroth> sure

Paul Groth: sure

16:29:17 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:29:21 <tlebo> Luc: : is it paul?

Luc Moreau: : is it paul?

16:29:25 <tlebo> pgroth: I can do that.

Paul Groth: I can do that.

16:29:33 <tlebo> ... we had a question about derivation.

... we had a question about derivation.

16:29:57 <tlebo> ... wasQUotedFrom, not derivation.

... wasQUotedFrom, not derivation.

16:30:08 <dgarijo> I think it was about the name of wasQuotedFrom.

Daniel Garijo: I think it was about the name of wasQuotedFrom.

16:30:12 <tlebo> (I think it's the same mix-up that "Tim vs. Stian+Daniel" had.

(I think it's the same mix-up that "Tim vs. Stian+Daniel" had.

16:30:13 <stain> it was about the directionality - as I originally complained about it

Stian Soiland-Reyes: it was about the directionality - as I originally complained about it

16:30:23 <stain> he suggested hadQuoteFrom

Stian Soiland-Reyes: he suggested hadQuoteFrom

16:30:27 <dgarijo> yep

Daniel Garijo: yep

16:30:35 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:30:57 <pgroth> action: pgroth to respond to public comments

ACTION: pgroth to respond to public comments

16:30:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-162 - Respond to public comments [on Paul Groth - due 2013-01-24].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-162 - Respond to public comments [on Paul Groth - due 2013-01-24].

16:30:58 <Dong> @Luc and Tim: I've just remember that some PROV-O examples might need to be revised in ISSUE-611

Trung Huynh: @Luc and Tim: I've just remember that some PROV-O examples might need to be revised in ISSUE-611

16:31:02 <tlebo> luc: wasquotedFrom, can't recall.

Luc Moreau: wasquotedFrom, can't recall.

16:31:17 <TomDN> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-comments/2013Jan/0006.html

Tom De Nies: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-comments/2013Jan/0006.html

16:31:29 <stain> I think we need another WG discussion on email about it

Stian Soiland-Reyes: I think we need another WG discussion on email about it

16:31:57 <TallTed> stain - just unifying my nick across a few spaces (Twitter, a couple of IRC nets, etc.) ...

Ted Thibodeau: stain - just unifying my nick across a few spaces (Twitter, a couple of IRC nets, etc.) ...

16:32:03 <stain> if the term was confusing in the primer.. then it's confusing all over

Stian Soiland-Reyes: if the term was confusing in the primer.. then it's confusing all over

16:32:04 <tlebo> q+ to note that we couldn't converge last time on the naming.

q+ to note that we couldn't converge last time on the naming.

16:32:15 <Zakim> - +1.818.731.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.818.731.aacc

16:32:44 <Zakim> + +1.818.731.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.818.731.aadd

16:32:56 <tlebo> ECHO

ECHO

16:32:57 <pgroth> echo madness

Paul Groth: echo madness

16:33:02 <stain> zakim, who is noisy?

Stian Soiland-Reyes: zakim, who is noisy?

16:33:06 <pgroth> simon

Paul Groth: simon

16:33:07 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:33:13 <Zakim> stain, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: tlebo (31%)

Zakim IRC Bot: stain, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: tlebo (31%)

16:33:14 <pgroth> ack tlebo

Paul Groth: ack tlebo

16:33:16 <Zakim> tlebo, you wanted to note that we couldn't converge last time on the naming.

Zakim IRC Bot: tlebo, you wanted to note that we couldn't converge last time on the naming.

16:33:38 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller]

16:34:00 <smiles> @tlebo - Do you have a link to that email conversation?

Simon Miles: @tlebo - Do you have a link to that email conversation?

16:34:01 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:34:10 <stain> but this email was from Chuck Norris - which sounds like a native speaker

Stian Soiland-Reyes: but this email was from Chuck Norris - which sounds like a native speaker

16:34:11 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:34:15 <tlebo> smiles: I can dig up the ISSUE.

Simon Miles: I can dig up the ISSUE.

16:34:17 <stain> MORRIS

Stian Soiland-Reyes: MORRIS

16:34:19 <stain> hihi

Stian Soiland-Reyes: hihi

16:34:26 <smiles> OK

Simon Miles: OK

16:34:26 <dgarijo> @stian:lol

Daniel Garijo: @stian:lol

16:34:56 <Zakim> +??P32

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P32

16:35:15 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:35:17 <Paolo> zakim, ??P32 is me

Paolo Missier: zakim, ??P32 is me

16:35:17 <Zakim> +Paolo; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Paolo; got it

16:35:25 <Luc> topic: prov-dictionary

4. prov-dictionary

Summary: As the editor's draft was just released, it was agreed that reviewers have till Wednesday to complete their review.

<luc>Summary: As the editor's draft was just released, it was agreed that reviewers have till Wednesday to complete their review.
16:35:27 <tlebo> tlebo: I'll dig through them. thanks for the reminder

Timothy Lebo: I'll dig through them. thanks for the reminder

16:35:44 <TomDN> no

Tom De Nies: no

16:35:54 <TomDN> Zakim, unmute me

Tom De Nies: Zakim, unmute me

16:35:54 <Zakim> TomDN should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should no longer be muted

16:36:03 <tlebo> smiles: https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/352 is the wasQuotedFrom naming discussion

Simon Miles: https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/352 is the wasQuotedFrom naming discussion

16:36:13 <Paolo> deadline is 23rd, right?

Paolo Missier: deadline is 23rd, right?

16:36:31 <pgroth> fine with me

Paul Groth: fine with me

16:36:35 <tlebo> Luc: reviewers should give feedback by next wed.

Luc Moreau: reviewers should give feedback by next wed.

16:36:41 <pgroth> paul

Paul Groth: paul

16:36:49 <smiles> @tlebo Thanks!

Simon Miles: @tlebo Thanks!

16:36:59 <TomDN> Paolo, Stian, James (maybe), Luc, and Paul,

Tom De Nies: Paolo, Stian, James (maybe), Luc, and Paul,

16:37:02 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:37:11 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me

Tom De Nies: Zakim, mute me

16:37:11 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should now be muted

16:37:12 <Luc> topic: prov-aq

5. prov-aq

Summary: All reviewers have submitted their report. The editors will produced a revised version for the next teleconference (or the following one) and vote for release will then take place.

<luc>Summary: All reviewers have submitted their report.   The editors will produced a revised version for the next teleconference (or the following one) and vote for release will then take place.
16:37:38 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:37:41 <tlebo> GK: I've seen 4 reviews in

Graham Klyne: I've seen 4 reviews in

16:37:57 <tlebo> pgroth: tim, simon, luc, dong, stian

Paul Groth: tim, simon, luc, dong, stian

16:38:18 <tlebo> h!

h!

16:38:22 <pgroth> your back

Paul Groth: your back

16:38:46 <tlebo> pgroth: all have reviewed.

Paul Groth: all have reviewed.

16:38:54 <pgroth> shall i go

Paul Groth: shall i go

16:39:08 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:39:11 <tlebo> GK: through 1.5 sets of comments.

Graham Klyne: through 1.5 sets of comments.

16:39:15 <tlebo> ... most are editorial.

... most are editorial.

16:39:25 <tlebo> ... hoping to pick out those that are more than editorial.

... hoping to pick out those that are more than editorial.

16:39:42 <pgroth> that's not the main issue

Paul Groth: that's not the main issue

16:39:45 <tlebo> ... issue on REST interface vs. simple convention for URI to retrieve prov.

... issue on REST interface vs. simple convention for URI to retrieve prov.

16:40:04 <tlebo> pgroth: everyone but stian said doc can go LC

Paul Groth: everyone but stian said doc can go LC

16:40:10 <stain> q+

Stian Soiland-Reyes: q+

16:40:17 <tlebo> ... stian has 8-9 blocking issues.

... stian has 8-9 blocking issues.

16:40:39 <Luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+

16:40:44 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

16:40:46 <tlebo> ... we should concentrate on blocking issues from stian.

... we should concentrate on blocking issues from stian.

16:40:46 <GK> Ah, I hadn't yet looked at those blocking issues from Stian

Graham Klyne: Ah, I hadn't yet looked at those blocking issues from Stian

16:41:07 <tlebo> stain: my issues: it was heavy.

Stian Soiland-Reyes: my issues: it was heavy.

16:41:16 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:41:20 <Luc> ack sta

Luc Moreau: ack sta

16:41:24 <tlebo> ... as a draft, fine. but not as final technical.

... as a draft, fine. but not as final technical.

16:41:25 <stain> @GK sorry about that..

Stian Soiland-Reyes: @GK sorry about that..

16:41:27 <Luc> ack luc

Luc Moreau: ack luc

16:41:40 <tlebo> Luc: i'm fine wiht doc released as next WD.

Luc Moreau: i'm fine wiht doc released as next WD.

16:41:58 <tlebo> ... I felt that feedback required changes, and so not last call.

... I felt that feedback required changes, and so not last call.

16:42:02 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:42:04 <tlebo> ... we don't have notion of last call in Note.

... we don't have notion of last call in Note.

16:42:09 <tlebo> ... we're abusing that name.

... we're abusing that name.

16:42:20 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:42:21 <tlebo> ... as next draft, fine.

... as next draft, fine.

16:42:44 <tlebo> pgroth: we should distinguish between release and not wanting to do any more to it.

Paul Groth: we should distinguish between release and not wanting to do any more to it.

16:43:08 <tlebo> ... address all comments, release a WD at a minimum. OR when we go PRec with other docs.

... address all comments, release a WD at a minimum. OR when we go PRec with other docs.

16:43:17 <tlebo> ... but can we get another iteration?

... but can we get another iteration?

16:43:17 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:43:22 <tlebo> ... before PR

... before PR

16:43:25 <GK> @paul +1 review/revise as much as possible

Graham Klyne: @paul +1 review/revise as much as possible

16:43:32 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:43:32 <tlebo> ... we need two more itnerations on PAQ

... we need two more itnerations on PAQ

16:43:55 <tlebo> Luc: we should be pragmatic about Notes and making it too perfect.

Luc Moreau: we should be pragmatic about Notes and making it too perfect.

16:44:00 <GK> If the issues are substantive, I don't think they should be "offline"

Graham Klyne: If the issues are substantive, I don't think they should be "offline"

16:44:09 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:44:30 <pgroth> @gk i was talking about scheduling

Paul Groth: @gk i was talking about scheduling

16:44:44 <GK> @paul Ah, OK.

Graham Klyne: @paul Ah, OK.

16:44:46 <tlebo> Luc: do we vote? or do work and editors cycle?

Luc Moreau: do we vote? or do work and editors cycle?

16:44:57 <tlebo> pgroth: next week or following for WD.

Paul Groth: next week or following for WD.

16:45:01 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

16:45:11 <TomDN> (can be synced with dictionary then)

Tom De Nies: (can be synced with dictionary then)

16:45:18 <tlebo> ... take off "final" terminology"

... take off "final" terminology"

16:45:28 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:45:45 <tlebo> topic: prov-xml

6. prov-xml

Summary: Stephan updated the group on recent changes made by editors. He is going to summarise these by email, on the tracker. We then discussed the namespace convention to adopted. The ideal is to align with the conventions we have adapted for the ontology, while still being compatible with the xml approach. Stephan was tasked to come up with a proposal for next teleconference.

<luc>Summary: Stephan updated the group on recent changes made by editors. He is going to summarise these by email, on the tracker. We then discussed the namespace convention to adopted. The ideal is to align with the conventions we have adapted for the ontology, while still being compatible with the xml approach. Stephan was tasked to come up with a proposal for next teleconference.
16:46:02 <GK> Next week is likely busy for me.  I'll try to complete my pass through the reviews today.

Graham Klyne: Next week is likely busy for me. I'll try to complete my pass through the reviews today.

16:46:25 <tlebo> luc: namespace, schema management, etc.

Luc Moreau: namespace, schema management, etc.

16:46:44 <tlebo> zednik: some feedback on original note. extended types was confusing with prov:type.

Stephan Zednik: some feedback on original note. extended types was confusing with prov:type.

16:46:52 <tlebo> ... made native XML type for those.

... made native XML type for those.

16:47:30 <tlebo> ... identifiers: work natively for XML

... identifiers: work natively for XML

16:47:33 <tlebo> ... id and idref

... id and idref

16:47:40 <tlebo> id uses xsi:id

id uses xsi:id

16:47:54 <tlebo> ... base type of idRef -- xml tooling is familiar.

... base type of idRef -- xml tooling is familiar.

16:48:12 <tlebo> .. cannot start with numbers, other constraints.

.. cannot start with numbers, other constraints.

16:48:24 <tlebo> ... it's native but doesn't work with our examples or URIs.

... it's native but doesn't work with our examples or URIs.

16:48:33 <tlebo> ... alternative: anyURI or QNames

... alternative: anyURI or QNames

16:48:34 <pgroth> @gk see where you can get and see what needs to be debated

Paul Groth: @gk see where you can get and see what needs to be debated

16:48:44 <tlebo> ... not sure which would be better.

... not sure which would be better.

16:48:50 <tlebo> ... also xlinks and xpointers.

... also xlinks and xpointers.

16:49:06 <GK> @paul - that's my plan - I'm making notes as I go.  I'll email you a copy when done.

Graham Klyne: @paul - that's my plan - I'm making notes as I go. I'll email you a copy when done.

16:49:13 <pgroth> @gk awesome

Paul Groth: @gk awesome

16:49:16 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

16:49:23 <tlebo> ... xpointers and xlinks might let us verify references existing.

... xpointers and xlinks might let us verify references existing.

16:49:28 <ivan> ack ivan

Ivan Herman: ack ivan

16:49:32 <tlebo> ... the group needs to read up on xlinks/xpointers.

... the group needs to read up on xlinks/xpointers.

16:49:35 <Luc> ack iv

Luc Moreau: ack iv

16:49:46 <tlebo> ivan: how widely is xlink implemented?

Ivan Herman: how widely is xlink implemented?

16:50:03 <tlebo> ... do tools really do it? xlink is an unlucky standard.

... do tools really do it? xlink is an unlucky standard.

16:50:10 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:50:23 <hook> q+

Hook Hua: q+

16:50:32 <tlebo> ... might not be worth adopting, could be more harm than good.

... might not be worth adopting, could be more harm than good.

16:50:48 <tlebo> hook: xlinks ISO community uses them to reference external XML traces.

Hook Hua: xlinks ISO community uses them to reference external XML traces.

16:50:59 <tlebo> ... in bundles, can reference across bundles.

... in bundles, can reference across bundles.

16:51:09 <tlebo> ... but good point on how much it's used.

... but good point on how much it's used.

16:51:15 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:51:22 <Luc> ack ho

Luc Moreau: ack ho

16:51:31 <tlebo> ... we still need to look into xlinks.

... we still need to look into xlinks.

16:51:50 <tlebo> Luc: have your changes surfaced to the WG?

Luc Moreau: have your changes surfaced to the WG?

16:52:00 <tlebo> ... some may want to get insight into your changes.

... some may want to get insight into your changes.

16:52:20 <tlebo> ... (are you using issue tracker?)

... (are you using issue tracker?)

16:52:30 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:52:54 <tlebo> zednik: announced, but did not tag into ISSUE.

Stephan Zednik: announced, but did not tag into ISSUE.

16:53:12 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:53:37 <tlebo> zednik: last modeling was valid.

Stephan Zednik: last modeling was valid.

16:53:55 <tlebo> Luc: namespace management issue

Luc Moreau: namespace management issue

16:54:08 <tlebo> ... the namespace HTML is waiting on it.

... the namespace HTML is waiting on it.

16:54:30 <tlebo> zednik: seems like we're misusing xml namesapces.

Stephan Zednik: seems like we're misusing xml namesapces.

16:54:49 <tlebo> ... the extension should have a different namespace.

... the extension should have a different namespace.

16:54:58 <tlebo> ... including dictionary in new namespace

... including dictionary in new namespace

16:55:24 <tlebo> ... stian proposed an organization, but not ideal.

... stian proposed an organization, but not ideal.

16:55:37 <tlebo> ... the xml schema should have different namespaces.

... the xml schema should have different namespaces.

16:55:58 <TomDN> (didn't we vote on this a few months ago?)

Tom De Nies: (didn't we vote on this a few months ago?)

16:56:03 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:56:03 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:56:18 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

16:56:37 <tlebo> pgroth: prov dictionary etc being in different docs doesn't mean it's not in the same thing.

Paul Groth: prov dictionary etc being in different docs doesn't mean it's not in the same thing.

16:56:54 <tlebo> ... (they are in same group, it's just broken up to aid understanding).

... (they are in same group, it's just broken up to aid understanding).

16:56:58 <Luc> zakim. who is noisy?

Luc Moreau: zakim. who is noisy?

16:57:07 <Luc> zakim, who is noisy?

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is noisy?

16:57:14 <tlebo> pgroth: from practice, developers do not like separate namespaces.

Paul Groth: from practice, developers do not like separate namespaces.

16:57:17 <Zakim> Luc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (90%)

Zakim IRC Bot: Luc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (90%)

16:57:30 <tlebo> ... PROV namespace will included in RDFa automatically.

... PROV namespace will included in RDFa 1.1 automatically.

16:57:44 <ivan> s/RDFa/RDFa 1.1/
16:57:57 <tlebo> Luc: is nice to have one ns

Luc Moreau: is nice to have one ns

16:58:24 <tlebo> Luc: a prov-xml dictionary namespace?

Luc Moreau: a prov-xml dictionary namespace?

16:58:37 <TomDN> then we need a prov-links namespace as well

Tom De Nies: then we need a prov-links namespace as well

16:58:55 <GK> IMO, if any of the XML namespaces are different from the corresponding RDF, then they should *all* be different

Graham Klyne: IMO, if any of the XML namespaces are different from the corresponding RDF, then they should *all* be different

16:59:10 <stain> q+

Stian Soiland-Reyes: q+

16:59:13 <GK> .. including the "core" namespace

Graham Klyne: .. including the "core" namespace

16:59:31 <Curt> just do 2, core, and core + all extensions

Curt Tilmes: just do 2, core, and core + all extensions

16:59:51 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:59:52 <stain> exactly.. we do a single schema with only core, and one with core-everything

Stian Soiland-Reyes: exactly.. we do a single schema with only core, and one with core-everything

16:59:53 <tlebo> q+ to ask zednik where the motivation for different namespaces comes from

q+ to ask zednik where the motivation for different namespaces comes from

16:59:59 <Luc> ack st

Luc Moreau: ack st

17:00:25 <tlebo> stain: oen for core prov xml, one that is prov-everything xml schema. If you don't like either of those, then you're on your own.

Stian Soiland-Reyes: oen for core prov xml, one that is prov-everything xml schema. If you don't like either of those, then you're on your own.

17:00:26 <zednik> q+

Stephan Zednik: q+

17:00:43 <Luc> ack tl

Luc Moreau: ack tl

17:00:43 <Zakim> tlebo, you wanted to ask zednik where the motivation for different namespaces comes from

Zakim IRC Bot: tlebo, you wanted to ask zednik where the motivation for different namespaces comes from

17:01:57 <Luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+

17:02:27 <Curt> I'm ok with one schema with everything

Curt Tilmes: I'm ok with one schema with everything

17:02:46 <pgroth> q+ prov-xml is a note

Paul Groth: q+ prov-xml is a note

17:02:57 <pgroth> i like that

Paul Groth: i like that

17:02:57 <tlebo> q-

q-

17:03:02 <zednik> q-

Stephan Zednik: q-

17:04:01 <tlebo> Luc: : single schema file with all terms that use one namespace, THEN half-way house of a single schema for just the core Rec terms.

Luc Moreau: : single schema file with all terms that use one namespace, THEN half-way house of a single schema for just the core Rec terms.

17:04:03 <pgroth> q+ to say that it is a single namespace

Paul Groth: q+ to say that it is a single namespace

17:04:20 <Luc> ack luc

Luc Moreau: ack luc

17:04:33 <stain> I think this is mainly an artifact of XML Schema being very strict of linking schemas and namespaces - this is not a big deal in other ways to express XML schemas like Relax NG

Stian Soiland-Reyes: I think this is mainly an artifact of XML Schema being very strict of linking schemas and namespaces - this is not a big deal in other ways to express XML schemas like Relax NG

17:05:03 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth

17:05:03 <Zakim> pgroth, you wanted to say that it is a single namespace

Zakim IRC Bot: pgroth, you wanted to say that it is a single namespace

17:05:25 <tlebo> pgroth: everyone should be able to paste the namespace to a browser and get all serializations documented.

Paul Groth: everyone should be able to paste the namespace to a browser and get all serializations documented.

17:05:34 <khalidBelhajjame> bye

Khalid Belhajjame: bye

17:05:34 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo

Zakim IRC Bot: -Satya_Sahoo

17:05:36 <Zakim> -tlebo

Zakim IRC Bot: -tlebo

17:05:36 <Zakim> -Paolo

Zakim IRC Bot: -Paolo

17:05:37 <Zakim> -??P22

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P22

17:05:37 <Zakim> -TomDN

Zakim IRC Bot: -TomDN

17:05:37 <GK> Bye

Graham Klyne: Bye

17:05:37 <SamCoppens> bye

Sam Coppens: bye

17:05:38 <dgarijo> bbye

Daniel Garijo: bbye

17:05:39 <Zakim> -stain

Zakim IRC Bot: -stain

17:05:40 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller.a]

17:05:41 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes

Zakim IRC Bot: -Curt_Tilmes

17:05:43 <Zakim> - +1.818.731.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.818.731.aadd

17:05:44 <Zakim> -pgroth

Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth

17:05:46 <Zakim> -dgarijo

Zakim IRC Bot: -dgarijo

17:05:46 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

17:05:46 <tlebo> Luc: I am done scribing?

Luc Moreau: I am done scribing?

17:05:48 <Luc> rrsagent, set log public

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, set log public

17:05:50 <Zakim> -??P41

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P41

17:05:53 <Zakim> -TallTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -TallTed

17:05:54 <Zakim> -GK

Zakim IRC Bot: -GK

17:06:31 <Luc> rrsagent, draft minutes

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, draft minutes

17:06:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-prov-minutes.html Luc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-prov-minutes.html Luc

17:06:35 <Luc> trackbot, end telcon

Luc Moreau: trackbot, end telcon

17:06:35 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees

17:06:36 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Curt_Tilmes, Luc, dgarijo, pgroth, [IPcaller], Ivan, +1.315.330.aabb, tlebo, Satya_Sahoo, +1.818.731.aacc, TallTed, TomDN, SamCoppens, GK_,

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been Curt_Tilmes, Luc, dgarijo, pgroth, [IPcaller], Ivan, +1.315.330.aabb, tlebo, Satya_Sahoo, +1.818.731.aacc, TallTed, TomDN, SamCoppens, GK_,

17:06:36 <Zakim> ... GK, stain, +1.818.731.aadd, Paolo

Zakim IRC Bot: ... GK, stain, +1.818.731.aadd, Paolo

17:06:43 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes

17:06:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-prov-minutes.html trackbot

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-prov-minutes.html trackbot

17:06:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye

17:06:44 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-prov-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-prov-actions.rdf :

17:06:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: pgroth to respond to public comments [1]

ACTION: pgroth to respond to public comments [1]

17:06:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-prov-irc#T16-30-57

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-prov-irc#T16-30-57



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