edit

Provenance Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 03 January 2013

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.01.03
Seen
Curt Tilmes, Daniel Garijo, Graham Klyne, Hook Hua, Ivan Herman, James Cheney, Jun Zhao, Khalid Belhajjame, Luc Moreau, Paolo Missier, Paul Groth, Simon Miles, Stephan Zednik, Stian Soiland-Reyes, Ted Thibodeau, Trung Huynh
Regrets
Ivan Herman
Chair
Luc Moreau
Scribe
Daniel Garijo
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. last telecon's minutes link
Topics
  1. WG implementations

    The WG was reminded that the deadline for submitting implementation reports is the end of January. An implementation report (as specified by the forms defined by the WG) identifies which features were successfully implemented. Hence, an implementation is not required to support all PROV features: instead, for each implementation, implementers should identify which features are supported. The participants were reminded that we are keen to identify implementations consuming provenance produced by others. Effort on implementing the constraints is also required. Stephan will investigate the possibility of converting information submitted to WBS into a summary of all implementations, so that we can understand features coverage.

  2. Prov-Dictionary

    We had a discussion about hadMember. The editors are invited to specify a ternary relation, such as hadDictionaryMember (name to be decided by editors), such that hadDictionaryMember(d,e,k) implies hadMember(d,e). Editors are invited to produce a document, ready for review by 2013-01-10. Paolo, Stian, James (maybe), Luc, and Paul will review the document then. Other volunteers welcome!

  3. PROV-AQ

    Graham updated us on the status of prov-aq. No change took place since the previous teleconference, though solutions are shaping for the link relation type and default provenance representation. Editors will produce a document ready for review by 2013-01-10. Tim (kindly invited in absentia), Simon, Luc, Dong, and Stian will then review the document. Volunteers welcome!

15:38:36 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/03-prov-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/03-prov-irc

15:38:38 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

15:38:40 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be PROV

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be PROV

15:38:40 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 22 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 22 minutes

15:38:41 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
15:38:41 <trackbot> Date: 03 January 2013
15:38:41 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV

Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV

15:38:42 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 22 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 22 minutes

15:38:56 <Luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.01.03
15:39:03 <Luc> Chair: Luc Moreau
15:39:10 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public

15:39:20 <Luc> Regrets: Ivan Herman
15:39:59 <Luc> Scribe: dgarijo

(Scribe set to Daniel Garijo)

15:49:04 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

(No events recorded for 9 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

15:49:10 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended

15:49:11 <Zakim> Attendees were

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were

15:54:34 <Luc> zakim, who is on the phone?

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is on the phone?

15:54:34 <Zakim> apparently SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended, Luc

Zakim IRC Bot: apparently SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended, Luc

15:54:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see GK1, GK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see GK1, GK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain

15:54:50 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV

Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV

15:54:50 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes

15:55:15 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public

15:55:20 <Luc> zakim, who is here?

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here?

15:55:20 <Zakim> apparently SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended, Luc

Zakim IRC Bot: apparently SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended, Luc

15:55:21 <Zakim> On IRC I see GK1, GK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see GK1, GK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain

15:57:16 <GK> Luc, Zakim's mutterings about conference ended may be because I dialled in briefly a few minutes ago, to test a new VoIP client.

Graham Klyne: Luc, Zakim's mutterings about conference ended may be because I dialled in briefly a few minutes ago, to test a new VoIP client.

15:57:31 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV

Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV

15:57:31 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

15:58:24 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

15:58:31 <Zakim> +Luc

Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc

15:58:49 <Luc> zakim, who is here?

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here?

15:58:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see Luc

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Luc

15:58:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see dgarijo, Curt, pgroth, GK1, GK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see dgarijo, Curt, pgroth, GK1, GK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain

15:59:33 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes

Zakim IRC Bot: +Curt_Tilmes

15:59:45 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

15:59:54 <Zakim> +??P5

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P5

15:59:56 <pgroth> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

Paul Groth: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

15:59:56 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it

16:00:03 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P5 is me

Zakim, ??P5 is me

16:00:03 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +dgarijo; got it

16:00:28 <Zakim> +??P7

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7

16:00:43 <Zakim> +??P8

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8

16:00:48 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

16:00:54 <dgarijo> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.01.03
16:00:55 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

16:00:55 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it

16:00:57 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

16:00:57 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

16:01:01 <GK> zakim, ??p7 is maybe me

Graham Klyne: zakim, ??p7 is maybe me

16:01:01 <Zakim> I don't understand '??p7 is maybe me', GK

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand '??p7 is maybe me', GK

16:01:07 <smiles> zakim, ??P8 is me

Simon Miles: zakim, ??P8 is me

16:01:07 <Zakim> +smiles; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +smiles; got it

16:01:18 <Luc> zakim, who is here?

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here?

16:01:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see Luc, Curt_Tilmes, pgroth, dgarijo, ??P7, smiles, MacTed (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Luc, Curt_Tilmes, pgroth, dgarijo, ??P7, smiles, MacTed (muted)

16:01:19 <GK> zakim, ??p7 is me

Graham Klyne: zakim, ??p7 is me

16:01:20 <Zakim> On IRC I see hook, smiles, dgarijo, Curt, pgroth, GK1, GK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see hook, smiles, dgarijo, Curt, pgroth, GK1, GK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain

16:01:20 <Zakim> +GK; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +GK; got it

16:01:35 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:01:52 <dgarijo> Luc: Happy new year. Best wishes

Luc Moreau: Happy new year. Best wishes

16:01:56 <Zakim> +jcheney

Zakim IRC Bot: +jcheney

16:02:07 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-12-13

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-12-13

16:02:13 <dgarijo> ... vote for the minutes of last telecon

... vote for the minutes of last telecon

16:02:20 <Zakim> + +1.818.731.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.818.731.aaaa

16:02:20 <Luc> proposed: approved last telecon's minutes

PROPOSED: approved last telecon's minutes

16:02:28 <dgarijo> +1

+1

16:02:32 <Curt> +1

Curt Tilmes: +1

16:02:32 <smiles> +1

Simon Miles: +1

16:02:35 <jcheney> +1

James Cheney: +1

16:02:39 <stain> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

Stian Soiland-Reyes: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

16:02:39 <Zakim> +stain; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +stain; got it

16:02:40 <stain> 0

Stian Soiland-Reyes: 0

16:02:50 <hook> +1

Hook Hua: +1

16:03:02 <Luc> resolved: last telecon's minutes

RESOLVED: last telecon's minutes

16:03:05 <GK> +1

Graham Klyne: +1

16:03:32 <dgarijo> Luc: actions. Tim had one. Another on Luc (not done)

Luc Moreau: actions. Tim had one. Another on Luc (not done)

16:03:43 <dgarijo> ... James do you want to add anything?

... James do you want to add anything?

16:03:48 <dgarijo> jcheney: no

James Cheney: no

16:04:09 <dgarijo> Luc: Dong will respond to your feedback

Luc Moreau: Dong will respond to your feedback

16:04:23 <dgarijo> ... action on stephan to review the proposal of xml namespaces

... action on stephan to review the proposal of xml namespaces

16:04:37 <Luc> topic: WG implementations

1. WG implementations

Summary: The WG was reminded that the deadline for submitting implementation reports is the end of January. An implementation report (as specified by the forms defined by the WG) identifies which features were successfully implemented. Hence, an implementation is not required to support all PROV features: instead, for each implementation, implementers should identify which features are supported. The participants were reminded that we are keen to identify implementations consuming provenance produced by others. Effort on implementing the constraints is also required. Stephan will investigate the possibility of converting information submitted to WBS into a summary of all implementations, so that we can understand features coverage.

<luc>Summary: The WG was reminded that the deadline for submitting implementation reports is the end of January.  An implementation report (as specified by the forms defined by the WG) identifies which features were successfully implemented. Hence,  an implementation is not required to support all PROV features: instead, for each implementation, implementers should identify which features are supported. The participants were reminded that we are keen to identify implementations consuming provenance produced by others. Effort on implementing the constraints is also required. Stephan will investigate the possibility of converting information submitted to WBS into a summary of all implementations, so that we can understand features coverage.
16:04:40 <dgarijo> ... will tackle that next week (stephan is not on the call)

... will tackle that next week (stephan is not on the call)

16:04:56 <MacTed> MacTed has changed the topic to: PROV WG - http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/ - Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.01.03

Ted Thibodeau: MacTed has changed the topic to: PROV WG - http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/ - Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.01.03

16:05:02 <dgarijo> ... Paul went through the survey system and circulated the results.

... Paul went through the survey system and circulated the results.

16:05:17 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:05:20 <dgarijo> ... 6 implementations, 2 extensions.

... 6 implementations, 2 extensions.

16:05:31 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a]

16:05:33 <dgarijo> ... we're still far from where we thought we would be

... we're still far from where we thought we would be

16:05:51 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:05:53 <Paolo> zakim, [IPcaller] is me

Paolo Missier: zakim, [IPcaller] is me

16:05:53 <Zakim> +Paolo; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Paolo; got it

16:05:56 <pgroth> me

Paul Groth: me

16:05:59 <smiles> I still hope to do so

Simon Miles: I still hope to do so

16:06:01 <dgarijo> ... we have to make a call for filling the survey

... we have to make a call for filling the survey

16:06:05 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:06:16 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:06:19 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

16:06:24 <dgarijo> I have already filled 1 extension and 1 implenentation.

I have already filled 1 extension and 1 implenentation.

16:06:29 <Paolo> quite a way away from constraints impl.

Paolo Missier: quite a way away from constraints impl.

16:06:39 <dgarijo> pgroth: 1 constraints and 1 implementation.

Paul Groth: 1 constraints and 1 implementation.

16:06:52 <khalidBelhajjame> zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me

Khalid Belhajjame: zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me

16:06:52 <Zakim> +khalidBelhajjame; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +khalidBelhajjame; got it

16:06:55 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:06:56 <stain> q+

Stian Soiland-Reyes: q+

16:06:57 <dgarijo> smiles: impl report and vocabulary usage

Simon Miles: impl report and vocabulary usage

16:07:01 <Paolo> several half-baked implementations but would need additional resources to pull them off

Paolo Missier: several half-baked implementations but would need additional resources to pull them off

16:07:05 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:07:09 <khalidBelhajjame> I have filled in one extension report, and Stian will submit one implementation report

Khalid Belhajjame: I have filled in one extension report, and Stian will submit one implementation report

16:07:24 <dgarijo> paolo: several threads ongoing

Paolo Missier: several threads ongoing

16:07:31 <stain> I sent one implementation and one vocab-extension earlier today

Stian Soiland-Reyes: I sent one implementation and one vocab-extension earlier today

16:07:40 <dgarijo> ... the main one is related to the constraints implementation

... the main one is related to the constraints implementation

16:07:41 <stain> another vocab-extension coming hopefully next week

Stian Soiland-Reyes: another vocab-extension coming hopefully next week

16:07:44 <stain> q-

Stian Soiland-Reyes: q-

16:08:11 <dgarijo> ... I'll see if resources come along. Then I'll submit the report

... I'll see if resources come along. Then I'll submit the report

16:08:19 <Zakim> +??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17

16:08:22 <stain> dgarijo: have we submitted our corpus?

Daniel Garijo: have we submitted our corpus? [ Scribe Assist by Stian Soiland-Reyes ]

16:08:39 <khalidBelhajjame> @Stian, yes

Khalid Belhajjame: @Stian, yes

16:08:42 <Curt> I will work with Stephan to submit a vocab usage for us

Curt Tilmes: I will work with Stephan to submit a vocab usage for us

16:08:46 <dgarijo> ... submitted a paper for the prov corpus.

... submitted a paper for the prov corpus.

16:08:55 <khalidBelhajjame> I mean not to as a report

Khalid Belhajjame: I mean not to as a report

16:09:03 <dgarijo> Luc: it can be a proof of concept. It doesn't have to use the whole prov.

Luc Moreau: it can be a proof of concept. It doesn't have to use the whole prov.

16:09:12 <dgarijo> @Stian, yes, we did.

@Stian, yes, we did.

16:09:21 <pgroth> @paolo that's fine

Paul Groth: @paolo that's fine

16:09:55 <dgarijo> paolo: if it doesn't have to be complete, then I'll be happy to fill the survey

Paolo Missier: if it doesn't have to be complete, then I'll be happy to fill the survey

16:09:57 <stain> @dgarijo - should that not be a "Vocabulary usage" submission then..?

Stian Soiland-Reyes: @dgarijo - should that not be a "Vocabulary usage" submission then..?

16:10:17 <dgarijo> @Khalid: did Raul submit roevo?

@Khalid: did Raul submit roevo?

16:10:31 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:10:39 <khalidBelhajjame> @Stian, but that is covered by the tavernaprov and wing-plugin, which have already been submitted!

Khalid Belhajjame: @Stian, but that is covered by the tavernaprov and wing-plugin, which have already been submitted!

16:10:50 <dgarijo> @Stian:  Ah, I haven't filled an entry for the corpus. We do have submitted to the prov-bench.

@Stian: Ah, I haven't filled an entry for the corpus. We do have submitted to the prov-bench.

16:11:08 <GK> @paolo, I think that's useful information to record.

Graham Klyne: @paolo, I think that's useful information to record.

16:11:24 <GK> (i.e. about constructs that need datalog extensions)

Graham Klyne: (i.e. about constructs that need datalog extensions)

16:11:43 <stain> @dgarijo I think we should submit the corpus to the survey as well

Stian Soiland-Reyes: @dgarijo I think we should submit the corpus to the survey as well

16:11:43 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:11:52 <dgarijo> Luc: if yur system tells us that a set of constraints have failed then it is ok.

Luc Moreau: if yur system tells us that a set of constraints have failed then it is ok.

16:12:15 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:12:24 <dgarijo> paolo: ok. I'll work to realign the parser to the current version in the toolbox.

Paolo Missier: ok. I'll work to realign the parser to the current version in the toolbox.

16:12:38 <dgarijo> @stian: it makes sense.

@stian: it makes sense.

16:13:12 <dgarijo> khalid: I have submitted wfprov and Stian has submitted tavernaprov plugin.

Khalid Belhajjame: I have submitted wfprov and Stian has submitted tavernaprov plugin.

16:14:40 <dgarijo> jcheney: Looking to wraping datalog into a java program (similar to what paolo is working on).

James Cheney: Looking to wraping datalog into a java program (similar to what paolo is working on).

16:14:47 <dgarijo> +q

+q

16:15:19 <dgarijo> Luc: hook?

Luc Moreau: hook?

16:15:43 <dgarijo> Hook: we got approval to work on an extension of Prov (meeting next week regarding that)

Hook Hua: we got approval to work on an extension of Prov (meeting next week regarding that)

16:15:49 <dgarijo> ... 1 year effort

... 1 year effort

16:16:24 <dgarijo> ... processing and data analysis -> prov-o. We have an initial extension of the ontology.

... processing and data analysis -> prov-o. We have an initial extension of the ontology.

16:16:40 <dgarijo> Luc: Will you have something to submit by the end of Jan?

Luc Moreau: Will you have something to submit by the end of Jan?

16:16:43 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:16:44 <dgarijo> Hook: yes

Hook Hua: yes

16:17:23 <dgarijo> ... but it's an effort that will take more than a year

... but it's an effort that will take more than a year

16:17:38 <dgarijo> GK: No plan to do an implementation at the moment

Graham Klyne: No plan to do an implementation at the moment

16:18:03 <dgarijo> Curt: Will work with Stephan and submit something

Curt Tilmes: Will work with Stephan and submit something

16:18:28 <dgarijo> zednik: Will submit something together with Curt

Stephan Zednik: Will submit something together with Curt

16:18:41 <dgarijo> Stain: I'll register a new voc extension next week.

Stian Soiland-Reyes: I'll register a new voc extension next week.

16:18:56 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

16:18:56 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted

16:19:09 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

16:19:09 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

16:19:09 <pgroth> q+ to ask about getting report results and interchange

Paul Groth: q+ to ask about getting report results and interchange

16:19:13 <dgarijo> MacTed: I don't think I'll submit something.

Ted Thibodeau: I don't think I'll submit something.

16:19:19 <dgarijo> q-

q-

16:19:43 <dgarijo> pgroth: I can't take the questionnaires to display all the result. Do we have all these emails anywhere?

Paul Groth: I can't take the questionnaires to display all the result. Do we have all these emails anywhere?

16:19:48 <dgarijo> stephan?

stephan?

16:19:57 <dgarijo> zednik: I do have the e mails.

Stephan Zednik: I do have the e mails.

16:20:11 <dgarijo> ... I'll look into it, but I do have the emails

... I'll look into it, but I do have the emails

16:20:26 <dgarijo> pgroth: concerned about the interchange

Paul Groth: concerned about the interchange

16:20:42 <dgarijo> zednik: we are getting some responses.

Stephan Zednik: we are getting some responses.

16:21:06 <dgarijo> Luc: stephan, it will be useful to know what the actual coverage is. Some features may not be supported yet.

Luc Moreau: stephan, it will be useful to know what the actual coverage is. Some features may not be supported yet.

16:21:25 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:21:36 <Dong> @Paul: My Provenance Service consumes provenance deposited by Luc's validator

Trung Huynh: @Paul: My Provenance Service consumes provenance deposited by Luc's validator

16:21:38 <dgarijo> ... maybe we need to know whether we need to put more effor in those concepts.

... maybe we need to know whether we need to put more effor in those concepts.

16:21:55 <dgarijo> zednik: I will look into it

Stephan Zednik: I will look into it

16:22:28 <jun> <@luc, we will try to encourage prov-bench submitters to also submit the questionnaire.>

Jun Zhao: <@luc, we will try to encourage prov-bench submitters to also submit the questionnaire.>

16:22:44 <dgarijo> pgroth: we need other people to submit to the survey

Paul Groth: we need other people to submit to the survey

16:22:55 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a]

16:22:55 <pgroth> @Dong - it has to be from different institutions

Paul Groth: @Dong - it has to be from different institutions

16:23:04 <Luc> action pgroth to send reminder about implementation reports

Luc Moreau: action pgroth to send reminder about implementation reports

16:23:11 <Luc> action: pgroth to send reminder about implementation reports

ACTION: pgroth to send reminder about implementation reports

16:23:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-157 - Send reminder about implementation reports [on Paul Groth - due 2013-01-10].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-157 - Send reminder about implementation reports [on Paul Groth - due 2013-01-10].

16:23:34 <dgarijo> jun: we have coordinated several submissions for the wf4Ever project

Jun Zhao: we have coordinated several submissions for the wf4Ever project

16:24:01 <dgarijo> Luc: are you still planning to work on the ocnstraints?

Luc Moreau: are you still planning to work on the ocnstraints?

16:24:17 <dgarijo> Jun: pressed with a project review. Will try

Jun Zhao: pressed with a project review. Will try

16:24:23 <Luc> topic: Prov-Dictionary

2. Prov-Dictionary

Summary: We had a discussion about hadMember. The editors are invited to specify a ternary relation, such as hadDictionaryMember (name to be decided by editors), such that hadDictionaryMember(d,e,k) implies hadMember(d,e). Editors are invited to produce a document, ready for review by 2013-01-10. Paolo, Stian, James (maybe), Luc, and Paul will review the document then. Other volunteers welcome!

<luc>Summary: We had a discussion about hadMember. The editors are invited to specify a ternary relation, such as hadDictionaryMember (name to be decided by editors), such that hadDictionaryMember(d,e,k) implies hadMember(d,e).  Editors are invited to produce a document, ready for review by 2013-01-10. Paolo, Stian, James (maybe), Luc, and Paul will review the document then. Other volunteers welcome!
16:24:24 <Dong> @Paul, I understand. Anyone can post provenance documents to my service if they use our PROV-JSON format :)

Trung Huynh: @Paul, I understand. Anyone can post provenance documents to my service if they use our PROV-JSON format :)

16:24:24 <Zakim> -khalidBelhajjame

Zakim IRC Bot: -khalidBelhajjame

16:24:25 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:24:28 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

16:24:28 <Zakim> pgroth, you wanted to ask about getting report results and interchange and to

Zakim IRC Bot: pgroth, you wanted to ask about getting report results and interchange and to

16:25:05 <dgarijo> Luc: is the doc ready for review?

Luc Moreau: is the doc ready for review?

16:25:20 <dgarijo> pgroth: we should recruit reviewers for today

Paul Groth: we should recruit reviewers for today

16:25:28 <Paolo> I would like to review it

Paolo Missier: I would like to review it

16:25:29 <dgarijo> ... any volunteers?

... any volunteers?

16:25:30 <Dong> @Paul: and Luc has the translation service for all the official representations to PROV-JSON

Trung Huynh: @Paul: and Luc has the translation service for all the official representations to PROV-JSON

16:25:38 <stain> +1

Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1

16:25:46 <jcheney> I'll have a look, not much time

James Cheney: I'll have a look, not much time

16:25:46 <GK> I already did a brief review over the holiday.

Graham Klyne: I already did a brief review over the holiday.

16:25:48 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:25:48 <stain> all the historic authors..

Stian Soiland-Reyes: all the historic authors..

16:25:57 <Luc> prov dictionary reviewers: Paolo, Stian, James (maybe), Luc

Luc Moreau: prov dictionary reviewers: Paolo, Stian, James (maybe), Luc

16:25:57 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth

16:25:58 <pgroth> +1

Paul Groth: +1

16:26:05 <dgarijo> Paolo, Stian, James (maybe), Paul.

Paolo, Stian, James (maybe), Paul.

16:26:12 <pgroth> no

Paul Groth: no

16:26:16 <Luc> prov dictionary reviewers: Paolo, Stian, James (maybe), Luc, Paul

Luc Moreau: prov dictionary reviewers: Paolo, Stian, James (maybe), Luc, Paul

16:26:26 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.aa]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.aa]

16:26:34 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:26:36 <khalidBelhajjame> zakim, [IPcaller.aa] is me

Khalid Belhajjame: zakim, [IPcaller.aa] is me

16:26:36 <Zakim> +khalidBelhajjame; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +khalidBelhajjame; got it

16:26:40 <dgarijo> Luc: very good. Are we in a position to discuss hadMember?

Luc Moreau: very good. Are we in a position to discuss hadMember?

16:27:22 <zednik> +q

Stephan Zednik: +q

16:27:26 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth

16:27:27 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

16:27:32 <dgarijo> Luc: I didn't follow all the discussion, but I got the feeling that there was some kind of consensus

Luc Moreau: I didn't follow all the discussion, but I got the feeling that there was some kind of consensus

16:27:39 <pgroth> ack zednik

Paul Groth: ack zednik

16:28:15 <dgarijo> stephanZ: currently hadMember doesn't support attributes.

Stephan Zednik: currently hadMember doesn't support attributes.

16:28:26 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:29:12 <dgarijo> Luc: there seems to be an aproval among the members of the call. The ternary relation sounds good.

Luc Moreau: there seems to be an aproval among the members of the call. The ternary relation sounds good.

16:29:31 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth

16:29:34 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:29:42 <Luc> topic: PROV-AQ

3. PROV-AQ

Summary: Graham updated us on the status of prov-aq. No change took place since the previous teleconference, though solutions are shaping for the link relation type and default provenance representation. Editors will produce a document ready for review by 2013-01-10. Tim (kindly invited in absentia), Simon, Luc, Dong, and Stian will then review the document. Volunteers welcome!

16:24:23 <Luc> Summary: Graham updated us on the status of prov-aq.  No change took place since the previous teleconference, though solutions are shaping for the link relation type and default provenance representation.  Editors will produce a document ready for review by 2013-01-10.  Tim (kindly invited in absentia), Simon, Luc, Dong, and Stian will then review the document. Volunteers welcome!
16:29:58 <pgroth> we can hear you!

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Paul Groth: we can hear you!

16:29:59 <pgroth> :-)

Paul Groth: :-)

16:30:14 <dgarijo> GK: no change since the last teleconf

Graham Klyne: no change since the last teleconf

16:30:36 <dgarijo> ... the main progress is about the discussion of the provenance service access. In particular sparql

... the main progress is about the discussion of the provenance service access. In particular sparql

16:30:41 <GK> My latest proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2013Jan/0002.html

Graham Klyne: My latest proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2013Jan/0002.html

16:30:47 <dgarijo> my latest proposal ^^

my latest proposal ^^

16:30:54 <GK> Main points (re http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/609):

Graham Klyne: Main points (re http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/609):

16:30:54 <GK> - propose to use single link relation type for provenance service via template and SPARQL endpoint

Graham Klyne: - propose to use single link relation type for provenance service via template and SPARQL endpoint

16:30:54 <GK> - stick with RDF for service description (there's some uncertainty about this among some LDPers)

Graham Klyne: - stick with RDF for service description (there's some uncertainty about this among some LDPers)

16:30:54 <GK> - expand service description to allow either or both service option

Graham Klyne: - expand service description to allow either or both service option

16:30:55 <GK> - service description with URI template unchecked (but see below)

Graham Klyne: - service description with URI template unchecked (but see below)

16:30:55 <GK> - SPARQL service description per http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-service-description/ (i.e. nothing new here)

Graham Klyne: - SPARQL service description per http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-service-description/ (i.e. nothing new here)

16:32:59 <dgarijo> ... small changes to the existing document, which keeps us in line with the events happening in other places.I'm waiting for Tim's response.

... small changes to the existing document, which keeps us in line with the events happening in other places.I'm waiting for Tim's response.

16:33:34 <dgarijo> ... the question is about prov provenance service term. Does it apply to all service options?

... the question is about prov provenance service term. Does it apply to all service options?

16:34:03 <pgroth> I liked the solution is with multi-typing

Paul Groth: I liked the solution is with multi-typing

16:34:29 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:34:30 <dgarijo> ... when Tim comes I'll update the document.

... when Tim comes I'll update the document.

16:34:57 <GK> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/425

Graham Klyne: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/425

16:34:57 <GK> [[

Graham Klyne: [[

16:34:57 <GK> While use of RDF for service descriptions is a recommended option, this specification does not preclude the use of non-RDF formats that a service may choose to offer, and which can be selected using HTTP content negotiation.

Graham Klyne: While use of RDF for service descriptions is a recommended option, this specification does not preclude the use of non-RDF formats that a service may choose to offer, and which can be selected using HTTP content negotiation.

16:34:57 <GK> ]]

Graham Klyne: ]]

16:34:58 <GK> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/tip/paq/prov-aq.html#provenance-service-description

Graham Klyne: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/tip/paq/prov-aq.html#provenance-service-description

16:35:00 <dgarijo> 2 other issues raised at the previous telecon: 1) Service description format.

2 other issues raised at the previous telecon: 1) Service description format.

16:35:11 <dgarijo> ...^^

...^^

16:35:23 <dgarijo> ... I think this is sufficient for now.

... I think this is sufficient for now.

16:35:28 <GK> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/428

Graham Klyne: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/428

16:35:28 <GK>

Graham Klyne:

16:35:28 <GK> Broadly, my position is to make no further change.  The use of other formats than RDF is not precluded, but RDF is the most developed option, and apparently has most interest.  As such, it provides a reasonable basis for interoperability.

Graham Klyne: Broadly, my position is to make no further change. The use of other formats than RDF is not precluded, but RDF is the most developed option, and apparently has most interest. As such, it provides a reasonable basis for interoperability.

16:35:45 <dgarijo> ... The other issue is related to the format of provenance.

... The other issue is related to the format of provenance.

16:35:58 <dgarijo> ... discussion about interoperability vs flexibility

... discussion about interoperability vs flexibility

16:36:12 <dgarijo> ... rdf seems to be the most developed option

... rdf seems to be the most developed option

16:36:19 <Luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+

16:36:46 <dgarijo> Luc: regarding the last point, I didn't understand.

Luc Moreau: regarding the last point, I didn't understand.

16:36:57 <dgarijo> GK: myme types are allowed.

Graham Klyne: myme types are allowed.

16:37:26 <dgarijo> Luc: this group is defining 2 mymetypes for provenance, so they should be allowed.

Luc Moreau: this group is defining 2 mymetypes for provenance, so they should be allowed.

16:37:52 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:37:57 <dgarijo> GK: facing interoperability, what should we recommend implementers to give the maximum of interoperability?

Graham Klyne: facing interoperability, what should we recommend implementers to give the maximum of interoperability?

16:38:04 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:38:08 <Luc> ack luc

Luc Moreau: ack luc

16:38:13 <dgarijo> Luc: my view is that we should not do that.

Luc Moreau: my view is that we should not do that.

16:39:29 <dgarijo> pgroth: several options for tackling the issue. One way is that we don't say anything. Another one is to provide a default.

Paul Groth: several options for tackling the issue. One way is that we don't say anything. Another one is to provide a default.

16:39:37 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:39:42 <Luc> ack pgr

Luc Moreau: ack pgr

16:39:47 <Luc> translators can help

Luc Moreau: translators can help

16:39:50 <dgarijo> ... this is kind of the discussion we are having

... this is kind of the discussion we are having

16:40:01 <dgarijo> Luc: thanks pgroth

Luc Moreau: thanks pgroth

16:40:04 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:40:26 <dgarijo> ... what is the timetable?

... what is the timetable?

16:40:51 <dgarijo> GK: affected by fb during christmas

Graham Klyne: affected by fb during christmas

16:41:08 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:41:20 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

16:41:21 <dgarijo> ... it also depends on Tim's availability.

... it also depends on Tim's availability.

16:41:44 <dgarijo> pgroth: it would be better to get it out on thursday

Paul Groth: it would be better to get it out on thursday

16:42:03 <dgarijo> ... we want to have something for the Jan deadline.

... we want to have something for the Jan deadline.

16:42:03 <Dong> I think it'll be difficult to force implementations to support a particular representation, even a single default one. Can the supported representation included in the service description?

Trung Huynh: I think it'll be difficult to force implementations to support a particular representation, even a single default one. Can the supported representation included in the service description?

16:42:28 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:42:45 <dgarijo> GK: just made the proposals, but I don't think there will be big changes.

Graham Klyne: just made the proposals, but I don't think there will be big changes.

16:43:23 <dgarijo> Luc: I'm keen to make sure to make this doc ready when we make the recommendations out. It would be good if we had it ready for next week

Luc Moreau: I'm keen to make sure to make this doc ready when we make the recommendations out. It would be good if we had it ready for next week

16:43:45 <pgroth> yep happy to do it

Paul Groth: yep happy to do it

16:44:00 <dgarijo> GK: pgroth will take the lead of the doc next week.

Graham Klyne: pgroth will take the lead of the doc next week.

16:44:17 <dgarijo> Luc: that's the last time it will be released before the final release.

Luc Moreau: that's the last time it will be released before the final release.

16:44:27 <dgarijo> GK: I think we're pretty good.

Graham Klyne: I think we're pretty good.

16:45:10 <dgarijo> Luc: the document no longer emphasizes query. Is it still reasonable to have the term "query" in the the title

Luc Moreau: the document no longer emphasizes query. Is it still reasonable to have the term "query" in the the title

16:45:26 <dgarijo> GK: the query will gain relevance after the latest changes+

Graham Klyne: the query will gain relevance after the latest changes+

16:45:28 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:45:52 <Luc> ack pgr

Luc Moreau: ack pgr

16:45:58 <dgarijo> Luc: if we drop query then we have to change the short name. We have to keep that in mind.

Luc Moreau: if we drop query then we have to change the short name. We have to keep that in mind.

16:46:18 <dgarijo> pgroth: I would prefer to change it, but maybe that should be a question for the reviewers.

Paul Groth: I would prefer to change it, but maybe that should be a question for the reviewers.

16:46:25 <Dong> +1

Trung Huynh: +1

16:46:26 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:46:31 <dgarijo> Luc: sounds good

Luc Moreau: sounds good

16:46:46 <smiles> I can review this

Simon Miles: I can review this

16:46:48 <dgarijo> Luc: who will review the document?

Luc Moreau: who will review the document?

16:46:49 <pgroth> @graham, let me know when I should take the editing token

Paul Groth: @graham, let me know when I should take the editing token

16:46:59 <GK> @paul, sure

Graham Klyne: @paul, sure

16:47:00 <Dong> I can as well

Trung Huynh: I can as well

16:47:09 <Luc> prov-aq reviewers: Tim, Simon, Luc, Dong

Luc Moreau: prov-aq reviewers: Tim, Simon, Luc, Dong

16:47:13 <stain> +1

Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1

16:47:20 <Luc> prov-aq reviewers: Tim, Simon, Luc, Dong, Stian

Luc Moreau: prov-aq reviewers: Tim, Simon, Luc, Dong, Stian

16:47:21 <smiles> q+

Simon Miles: q+

16:47:43 <dgarijo> smiles: are we reviewing now or from thursday next week.

Simon Miles: are we reviewing now or from thursday next week.

16:47:47 <dgarijo> Luc: next week.

Luc Moreau: next week.

16:47:52 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:47:55 <Luc> ack smil

Luc Moreau: ack smil

16:48:11 <dgarijo> tty next week

tty next week

16:48:12 <Zakim> -jcheney

Zakim IRC Bot: -jcheney

16:48:14 <dgarijo> good bye

good bye

16:48:14 <Zakim> -MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed

16:48:15 <khalidBelhajjame> bye

Khalid Belhajjame: bye

16:48:16 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes

Zakim IRC Bot: -Curt_Tilmes

16:48:17 <Zakim> -pgroth

Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth

16:48:17 <Zakim> -khalidBelhajjame

Zakim IRC Bot: -khalidBelhajjame

16:48:19 <zednik> bye

Stephan Zednik: bye

16:48:19 <Zakim> -Paolo

Zakim IRC Bot: -Paolo

16:48:19 <Zakim> -stain

Zakim IRC Bot: -stain

16:48:21 <Dong> thanks, bye all

Trung Huynh: thanks, bye all

16:48:21 <GK> Bye.   +10mins :)

Graham Klyne: Bye. +10mins :)

16:48:21 <Zakim> - +1.818.731.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.818.731.aaaa

16:48:23 <Zakim> -dgarijo

Zakim IRC Bot: -dgarijo

16:48:23 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller.a]

16:48:26 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller]

16:48:27 <Zakim> -smiles

Zakim IRC Bot: -smiles

16:48:30 <Luc> rrsagent, set log public

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, set log public

16:48:32 <Zakim> -GK

Zakim IRC Bot: -GK

16:48:35 <Luc> rrsagent, draft minutes

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, draft minutes

16:48:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/03-prov-minutes.html Luc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/03-prov-minutes.html Luc

16:48:38 <Luc> trackbot, end telcon

Luc Moreau: trackbot, end telcon

16:48:38 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees

16:48:38 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Luc, Curt_Tilmes, pgroth, dgarijo, MacTed, smiles, GK, jcheney, +1.818.731.aaaa, stain, Paolo, khalidBelhajjame, [IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been Luc, Curt_Tilmes, pgroth, dgarijo, MacTed, smiles, GK, jcheney, +1.818.731.aaaa, stain, Paolo, khalidBelhajjame, [IPcaller]

16:48:42 <Zakim> -??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P17

16:48:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes

16:48:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/03-prov-minutes.html trackbot

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/03-prov-minutes.html trackbot

16:48:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye

16:48:47 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/03-prov-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/03-prov-actions.rdf :

16:48:47 <RRSAgent> ACTION: pgroth to send reminder about implementation reports [1]

ACTION: pgroth to send reminder about implementation reports [1]

16:48:47 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/03-prov-irc#T16-23-11

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/03-prov-irc#T16-23-11



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