edit

Provenance Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 27 September 2012

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.09.27
Seen
Daniel Garijo, Graham Klyne, Hook Hua, Ivan Herman, James Cheney, Jun Zhao, Khalid Belhajjame, Luc Moreau, Paolo Missier, Paul Groth, Satya Sahoo, Simon Miles, Stian Soiland-Reyes, Ted Thibodeau, Timothy Lebo, Tom De Nies
Chair
Luc Moreau
Scribe
Khalid Belhajjame
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. minutes of the September 20, 2012 Telecon link
  2. guidance for editor: section 5 would be the only normative section in prov-dm link
Topics
  1. admin

    Minutes of last week's teleconference were accepted.

  2. Timetable to CR

    WG members are invited to check the timetable at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/TimetableToRec. The plan is to vote on release of Candidate Recommendation on November 1st, which requires all issues to be tackled and exit criteria to CR to be defined. Timely response to email would be very appreciated.

  3. PROV-O issues

    Outstanding issues in the tracker were reviewed. They are either complete or require minor work to be completed by the end of the week. The only outstanding issue was related to some received public comment, and is being processed according to the agreed process. The chair congratulated the prov-o team for resolving the backlog of issues.

  4. PROV-DM issues

    It was resolved that responses to ISSUE-492, ISSUE-500, ISSUE-505, ISSUE-508 can be sent to reviewers. Some further 20 issues have been tackled, and the group is invited to review responses by Wednesday October 03. The group discussed which section of the prov-dm document are normative. Some guidance to editors was provided: Section 5 would be the only section to be normative, provided some minor editorial issues are addressed. Finally, we began discussing ISSUE-519 and ISSUE-523 which identify problems in UML diagrams regarding inheritance associated with Influence. We ran out of time, and were unable to reach consensus: a detailed solution needs to be drafted, and reviewed by the working group.

14:46:03 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/27-prov-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/27-prov-irc

14:46:05 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:46:06 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV

Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV

14:46:06 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes

14:46:07 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be

14:46:08 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:46:08 <trackbot> Date: 27 September 2012
14:46:08 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

14:47:28 <Luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.09.27
14:47:34 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public

14:52:42 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

14:52:49 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

14:52:57 <pgroth> Zakim, who is on the phone?

Paul Groth: Zakim, who is on the phone?

14:52:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see [IPcaller]

14:53:05 <pgroth> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

Paul Groth: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

14:53:05 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it

14:59:04 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

14:59:13 <Zakim> + +44.238.059.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.238.059.aaaa

14:59:28 <Luc> zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me

Luc Moreau: zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me

14:59:28 <Zakim> +Luc; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc; got it

14:59:40 <Luc> Hi, we don't have a scribe

Luc Moreau: Hi, we don't have a scribe

14:59:57 <Zakim> + +1.781.273.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.781.273.aabb

15:00:08 <MacTed> Zakim, aabb is OpenLink_Software

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, aabb is OpenLink_Software

15:00:08 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software; got it

15:00:15 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

15:00:15 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it

15:00:17 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:00:17 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

15:00:19 <Zakim> +??P20

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P20

15:00:47 <Luc> @khalidBelhajjame, hi Khalid, any chance you would be able to scribe?

Luc Moreau: @khalidBelhajjame, hi Khalid, any chance you would be able to scribe?

15:00:51 <Zakim> + +44.789.470.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.789.470.aacc

15:00:59 <stain> zakim, +44.789.470.aacc is me

Stian Soiland-Reyes: zakim, +44.789.470.aacc is me

15:00:59 <Zakim> +stain; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +stain; got it

15:01:00 <Zakim> +??P30

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P30

15:01:07 <Luc> Chair: Luc Moreau
15:01:15 <khalidBelhajjame> zakim, ??P30 is me

Khalid Belhajjame: zakim, ??P30 is me

15:01:15 <Zakim> +khalidBelhajjame; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +khalidBelhajjame; got it

15:01:17 <Zakim> + +1.818.731.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.818.731.aadd

15:01:21 <Luc> @khalidBelhajjame, hi Khalid, any chance you would be able to scribe?

Luc Moreau: @khalidBelhajjame, hi Khalid, any chance you would be able to scribe?

15:01:30 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a]

15:01:38 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

15:01:38 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

15:01:39 <khalidBelhajjame> @Luc I can try, but I have a bad connection

Khalid Belhajjame: @Luc I can try, but I have a bad connection

15:01:41 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

15:01:51 <khalidBelhajjame> I can try though

Khalid Belhajjame: I can try though

15:01:53 <Zakim> + +329331aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +329331aaee

15:01:55 <Zakim> + +44.131.467.aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.131.467.aaff

15:01:56 <jun> zakim, +[IPcaller.a] is me

Jun Zhao: zakim, +[IPcaller.a] is me

15:01:56 <Zakim> sorry, jun, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller.a]'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, jun, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller.a]'

15:01:59 <stain> I can fill in for 30 minutes

Stian Soiland-Reyes: I can fill in for 30 minutes

15:02:01 <TomDN> Zakim, +32 is me

Tom De Nies: Zakim, +32 is me

15:02:01 <Zakim> +TomDN; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +TomDN; got it

15:02:04 <Luc> Scribe: khalidBelhajjame

(Scribe set to Khalid Belhajjame)

15:02:07 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me

Tom De Nies: Zakim, mute me

15:02:07 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should now be muted

15:02:07 <Paolo> luc apologies, my keyboard is acting up

Paolo Missier: luc apologies, my keyboard is acting up

15:02:08 <jun> zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me

Jun Zhao: zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me

15:02:08 <jcheney> zakim, aaff is me

James Cheney: zakim, aaff is me

15:02:09 <Zakim> +jun; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jun; got it

15:02:09 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jcheney; got it

15:02:11 <Paolo> can barely type

Paolo Missier: can barely type

15:02:26 <Zakim> + +1.315.330.aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.315.330.aagg

15:02:32 <tlebo> zakim, I am aagg

Timothy Lebo: zakim, I am aagg

15:02:32 <Zakim> +tlebo; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +tlebo; got it

15:03:00 <Luc> Topic: admin

1. admin

Summary: Minutes of last week's teleconference were accepted.

<Luc>Summary: Minutes of last week's teleconference were accepted.
15:03:03 <Luc> proposed: to accept the minutes of the September 20, 2012 Telecon

PROPOSED: to accept the minutes of the September 20, 2012 Telecon

15:03:07 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: approve the minutes of last week

Luc Moreau: approve the minutes of last week

15:03:09 <jcheney> 0 (absent)

James Cheney: 0 (absent)

15:03:16 <smiles> 0

Simon Miles: 0

15:03:17 <TomDN> +1

Tom De Nies: +1

15:03:20 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-09-20

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-09-20

15:03:21 <khalidBelhajjame> 0 (absent)

0 (absent)

15:03:24 <stain> 0 (absent)

Stian Soiland-Reyes: 0 (absent)

15:03:36 <Paolo> 0 (absent)

Paolo Missier: 0 (absent)

15:03:38 <jun> +1

Jun Zhao: +1

15:03:43 <tlebo> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1

15:03:51 <hook> 0 (absent)

Hook Hua: 0 (absent)

15:04:00 <Luc> accepted:  minutes of the September 20, 2012 Telecon

RESOLVED: minutes of the September 20, 2012 Telecon

15:04:08 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: minutes approved

Luc Moreau: minutes approved

15:04:22 <pgroth> :-)

Paul Groth: :-)

15:04:23 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: action assigned to Paulo

Luc Moreau: action assigned to Paulo

15:04:27 <pgroth> every week

Paul Groth: every week

15:04:32 <pgroth> now it's a running joke

Paul Groth: now it's a running joke

15:04:33 <Zakim> +??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1

15:04:41 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: action on Paul to produce an overview slide

Luc Moreau: action on Paul to produce an overview slide

15:04:44 <pgroth> it's just to make me feel guilty every week

Paul Groth: it's just to make me feel guilty every week

15:04:48 <GK> zakim, ??p1 is me

Graham Klyne: zakim, ??p1 is me

15:04:48 <Zakim> +GK; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +GK; got it

15:04:49 <Zakim> +??P21

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21

15:04:52 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: we can leave it for another week

Luc Moreau: we can leave it for another week

15:05:15 <Luc> Topic: Timetable to CR

2. Timetable to CR

Summary: WG members are invited to check the timetable at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/TimetableToRec. The plan is to vote on release of Candidate Recommendation on November 1st, which requires all issues to be tackled and exit criteria to CR to be defined. Timely response to email would be very appreciated.

<Luc>Summary: WG members are invited to check the timetable at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/TimetableToRec. The plan is to vote on release of Candidate Recommendation  on November 1st, which requires all issues to be tackled and exit criteria to CR to be defined.  Timely response to email would be very appreciated.
15:05:25 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: timetable to candidate recommendation

Luc Moreau: timetable to candidate recommendation

15:05:48 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/TimetableToRec

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/TimetableToRec

15:05:53 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: we are in the phase where we need to tackle external feeback

Luc Moreau: we are in the phase where we need to tackle external feeback

15:05:57 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo

Zakim IRC Bot: +Satya_Sahoo

15:06:15 <Luc> End LC review for prov-dm/prov-o/prov-n: 2012-9-18

Luc Moreau: End LC review for prov-dm/prov-o/prov-n: 2012-9-18

15:06:16 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: the link contains the document submitted to have the extention for th eWG

Luc Moreau: the link contains the document submitted to have the extention for th eWG

15:06:37 <Luc> End LC review for prov-constraints: 2012-10-10

Luc Moreau: End LC review for prov-constraints: 2012-10-10

15:06:51 <Luc> CR Publication: 2012-11-15

Luc Moreau: CR Publication: 2012-11-15

15:06:54 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: the lc review for prov-dm was the 18th of September

Luc Moreau: the lc review for prov-dm was the 18th of September

15:07:09 <Luc> Vote for CR: 2012-11-01

Luc Moreau: Vote for CR: 2012-11-01

15:07:11 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: we want to publish candidate recomendation of the 15th of November

Luc Moreau: we want to publish candidate recomendation of the 15th of November

15:07:23 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: we should have a vote around the 1st of Novemer

Luc Moreau: we should have a vote around the 1st of Novemer

15:07:45 <khalidBelhajjame> luc: the issues needs to be addressed by then

Luc Moreau: the issues needs to be addressed by then

15:07:53 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:07:57 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: that is not a lot of time

Luc Moreau: that is not a lot of time

15:08:19 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:08:47 <khalidBelhajjame> ivan: we also have a clear plan what the exit criteria are

Ivan Herman: we also have a clear plan what the exit criteria are

15:09:08 <khalidBelhajjame> ... how do we judge that we have the correct implementation, how do we judge it, etc.

... how do we judge that we have the correct implementation, how do we judge it, etc.

15:09:09 <pgroth> +q

Paul Groth: +q

15:09:26 <Luc> ack iv

Luc Moreau: ack iv

15:10:18 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth

15:10:25 <khalidBelhajjame> pgroth: we are still expecting feedback from other WGs, we didnt get any feedback and the deadline for feedback is over, can we still process late feedback?

Paul Groth: we are still expecting feedback from other WGs, we didnt get any feedback and the deadline for feedback is over, can we still process late feedback?

15:10:51 <khalidBelhajjame> ivan: we can say sorry it is too late

Ivan Herman: we can say sorry it is too late

15:11:34 <khalidBelhajjame> ... with the RDF WG we have issues, I would hope that ? will send feedback on teh constrainst document by next week

... with the RDF WG we have issues, I would hope that ? will send feedback on teh constrainst document by next week

15:11:50 <GK> q+ to ask: do we have any knowledge of areas where RDF group might have feedback for us

Graham Klyne: q+ to ask: do we have any knowledge of areas where RDF group might have feedback for us

15:12:08 <khalidBelhajjame> ... which WGs did we ask?

... which WGs did we ask?

15:12:40 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:13:14 <Luc> ... and we did it too for IETF mime type and we got feedback

Luc Moreau: ... and we did it too for IETF mime type and we got feedback

15:14:43 <pgroth> q+ to say what we asked

Paul Groth: q+ to say what we asked

15:14:51 <GK> q-

Graham Klyne: q-

15:15:22 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:15:32 <pgroth> ack

Paul Groth: ack

15:16:13 <khalidBelhajjame> pgroth: we asked about the construct of mention and about RDF types

Paul Groth: we asked about the construct of mention and about RDF types

15:16:19 <GK> @pgroth thanks

Graham Klyne: @pgroth thanks

15:16:32 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth

15:16:32 <Zakim> pgroth, you wanted to say what we asked

Zakim IRC Bot: pgroth, you wanted to say what we asked

15:16:52 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: keep in mind that we have 4 weeks to complete the document

Luc Moreau: keep in mind that we have 4 weeks to complete the document

15:17:03 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:17:11 <khalidBelhajjame> .. no more question on the time table?

.. no more question on the time table?

15:17:17 <khalidBelhajjame> @luc, yes

@luc, yes

15:17:21 <khalidBelhajjame> yes

yes

15:17:28 <Luc> topic: PROV-O issues

3. PROV-O issues

Summary: Outstanding issues in the tracker were reviewed. They are either complete or require minor work to be completed by the end of the week. The only outstanding issue was related to some received public comment, and is being processed according to the agreed process. The chair congratulated the prov-o team for resolving the backlog of issues.

<Luc> Summary: Outstanding issues in the tracker were reviewed. They are either complete or require minor work to be completed by the end of the week. The only outstanding issue was related to some received public comment, and is being processed according to the agreed process. The chair congratulated the prov-o team for resolving the backlog of issues.
15:17:43 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: next item, review of the outstanding issues in the tracker

Luc Moreau: next item, review of the outstanding issues in the tracker

15:17:53 <Zakim> +Luc.a

Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc.a

15:18:00 <khalidBelhajjame> ... we need to close some of those actions

... we need to close some of those actions

15:18:13 <khalidBelhajjame> pgroth: Stian, you sent an email on issue 491

Paul Groth: Stian, you sent an email on ISSUE-491

15:18:27 <khalidBelhajjame> stian: we wanted to discuss that with Tim

Stian Soiland-Reyes: we wanted to discuss that with Tim

15:19:00 <khalidBelhajjame> stain: I suggested a definition

Stian Soiland-Reyes: I suggested a definition

15:19:27 <khalidBelhajjame> tlebo: the definitions of the properties reuse the definition of the classes

Timothy Lebo: the definitions of the properties reuse the definition of the classes

15:19:34 <khalidBelhajjame> ... I would like to keep them consistent

... I would like to keep them consistent

15:20:02 <khalidBelhajjame> ... if they are confusing, then I will need to revise the generation algorithm to let you know which annotations we should use

... if they are confusing, then I will need to revise the generation algorithm to let you know which annotations we should use

15:20:21 <khalidBelhajjame> stain: my argument is that we shouldnt use them

Stian Soiland-Reyes: my argument is that we shouldnt use them

15:20:49 <khalidBelhajjame> ... between agent and agent inference, it becomes confusing untangling the properties

... between agent and agent inference, it becomes confusing untangling the properties

15:21:13 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:21:35 <khalidBelhajjame> pgroth: we can leave the definitions there for consistency and add a link

Paul Groth: we can leave the definitions there for consistency and add a link

15:21:54 <khalidBelhajjame> ... instead of redefining everything

... instead of redefining everything

15:22:19 <khalidBelhajjame> tlebo: we can discuss that offline

Timothy Lebo: we can discuss that offline

15:22:37 <Luc> can we try to converge quickly?

Luc Moreau: can we try to converge quickly?

15:22:41 <khalidBelhajjame> ... I will respond to that by email

... I will respond to that by email

15:22:57 <Luc> good!

Luc Moreau: good!

15:23:00 <khalidBelhajjame> pgroth: can we try to converge quickly to close the issue by tomorrow?

Paul Groth: can we try to converge quickly to close the issue by tomorrow?

15:23:36 <khalidBelhajjame> pgroth: for issue 479, Stian tried to make changes, but I think we still need more changes becase Trig syntax is still there

Paul Groth: for ISSUE-479, Stian tried to make changes, but I think we still need more changes becase Trig syntax is still there

15:23:53 <khalidBelhajjame> satya: I have not been able to respond to your email

Satya Sahoo: I have not been able to respond to your email

15:24:24 <Luc> timing?

Luc Moreau: timing?

15:24:26 <khalidBelhajjame> satya: I will revisit the changes

Satya Sahoo: I will revisit the changes

15:24:38 <khalidBelhajjame> pgroth: that will be done by this week?

Paul Groth: that will be done by this week?

15:24:47 <khalidBelhajjame> satya: yes

Satya Sahoo: yes

15:25:04 <khalidBelhajjame> pgroth: issue 349 is now closed

Paul Groth: ISSUE-349 is now closed

15:25:10 <khalidBelhajjame> stian: yes

Stian Soiland-Reyes: yes

15:25:22 <khalidBelhajjame> ... I will double check

... I will double check

15:25:23 <Luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+

15:25:47 <pgroth> good point

Paul Groth: good point

15:25:57 <tlebo> q+

Timothy Lebo: q+

15:25:58 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: are we keeping track of the changes we are aking the document to use them when publishing the next version

Luc Moreau: are we keeping track of the changes we are aking the document to use them when publishing the next version

15:26:18 <Luc> ack L

Luc Moreau: ack L

15:26:19 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: for example in prov-dm i put in the appendix the changes made

Luc Moreau: for example in prov-dm i put in the appendix the changes made

15:26:24 <pgroth> ack tlebo

Paul Groth: ack tlebo

15:26:48 <khalidBelhajjame> tlebo: I added a section that reflect the changes, but we need to check that it was updated

Timothy Lebo: I added a section that reflect the changes, but we need to check that it was updated

15:27:02 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: it would be a good policy that any change is reflected in that section

Luc Moreau: it would be a good policy that any change is reflected in that section

15:27:15 <tlebo> The section for changes: http://aquarius.tw.rpi.edu/prov-wg/prov-o#changes-since-wd-prov-o-20120724

Timothy Lebo: The section for changes: http://aquarius.tw.rpi.edu/prov-wg/prov-o#changes-since-wd-prov-o-20120724

15:28:07 <khalidBelhajjame> satya: for issue 349 we need also to change the identifiers used in the examples

Satya Sahoo: for ISSUE-349 we need also to change the identifiers used in the examples

15:28:22 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:28:24 <stain> ^^ stian

Stian Soiland-Reyes: ^^ stian

15:28:51 <khalidBelhajjame> pgroth: issue 446, Daniele?

Paul Groth: ISSUE-446, Daniele?

15:29:04 <khalidBelhajjame> ... will send an email to Daniele

... will send an email to Daniele

15:29:07 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/10

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/10

15:29:40 <khalidBelhajjame> ... provo has only one open issue,

... provo has only one open issue,

15:30:06 <Luc> what about http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/3?

Luc Moreau: what about http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/3?

15:30:14 <khalidBelhajjame> tlebo: I will address the issue given the email sent by Graham

Timothy Lebo: I will address the issue given the email sent by Graham

15:30:14 <pgroth> @luc was getting there

Paul Groth: @luc was getting there

15:30:33 <khalidBelhajjame> tlebo: issue 476 is an externa comment

Timothy Lebo: ISSUE-476 is an externa comment

15:30:44 <khalidBelhajjame> ... what is the processing for it given that it is resolved

... what is the processing for it given that it is resolved

15:31:00 <Luc>  http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments

15:31:32 <stain> ACTION stain: Add note on example identifiers changes in prov-o

Stian Soiland-Reyes: ACTION stain: Add note on example identifiers changes in prov-o

15:31:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-118 - Add note on example identifiers changes in prov-o [on Stian Soiland-Reyes - due 2012-10-04].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-118 - Add note on example identifiers changes in prov-o [on Stian Soiland-Reyes - due 2012-10-04].

15:31:47 <smiles> @tlebo OK, I have checked issue 445 is resolved and will close it now

Simon Miles: @tlebo OK, I have checked ISSUE-445 is resolved and will close it now

15:32:12 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: there are a couple of issues regarding the ontologies

Luc Moreau: there are a couple of issues regarding the ontologies

15:32:41 <GK> (As an aside, when trying to review the proposed responses, it would have been really helpful to me to have a link back to the *original* email to the prov-comments list)

Graham Klyne: (As an aside, when trying to review the proposed responses, it would have been really helpful to me to have a link back to the *original* email to the prov-comments list)

15:32:47 <khalidBelhajjame> pgroth: issue 552, which need the resolution of the issue on influence

Paul Groth: ISSUE-552, which need the resolution of the issue on influence

15:33:08 <Luc>  http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments

15:33:08 <pgroth> thanks stain

Paul Groth: thanks stain

15:33:14 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: all the responses are on the wiki

Luc Moreau: all the responses are on the wiki

15:33:27 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:33:46 <pgroth> it has the original email

Paul Groth: it has the original email

15:33:59 <khalidBelhajjame> GK: information about who send the original comment is missing

Graham Klyne: information about who send the original comment is missing

15:34:44 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/463

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/463

15:34:55 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: you need to go to the tracker

Luc Moreau: you need to go to the tracker

15:35:11 <pgroth> +q

Paul Groth: +q

15:35:40 <Luc> topic: PROV-DM issues

4. PROV-DM issues

Summary: It was resolved that responses to ISSUE-492, ISSUE-500, ISSUE-505, ISSUE-508 can be sent to reviewers. Some further 20 issues have been tackled, and the group is invited to review responses by Wednesday October 03. The group discussed which section of the prov-dm document are normative. Some guidance to editors was provided: Section 5 would be the only section to be normative, provided some minor editorial issues are addressed. Finally, we began discussing ISSUE-519 and ISSUE-523 which identify problems in UML diagrams regarding inheritance associated with Influence. We ran out of time, and were unable to reach consensus: a detailed solution needs to be drafted, and reviewed by the working group.

<Luc>Summary: It was resolved that responses to ISSUE-492, ISSUE-500, ISSUE-505, ISSUE-508 can be sent to reviewers. Some further 20 issues have been tackled, and the group is invited to review responses by Wednesday  October 03.  The group discussed which section of the prov-dm document are normative. Some guidance to editors was provided: Section 5 would be the only section to be normative, provided some minor editorial issues are addressed. Finally, we began discussing ISSUE-519 and ISSUE-523 which identify problems in UML diagrams regarding inheritance associated with Influence. We ran out of time, and were unable to reach consensus: a detailed solution needs to be drafted, and reviewed by the working group.
15:35:54 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

15:36:07 <khalidBelhajjame> pgroth: we obtain the email from Robert, and then issued the issue.Given that his comments were extensive, we proke them into several issues

Paul Groth: we obtain the email from Robert, and then issued the issue.Given that his comments were extensive, we proke them into several issues

15:36:39 <khalidBelhajjame> GK: there is no simple way to get to the oriinal email

Graham Klyne: there is no simple way to get to the oriinal email

15:36:47 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:36:57 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: any comments regarding prov-o?

Luc Moreau: any comments regarding prov-o?

15:37:13 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments#PROV-DM_.28Under_Review.29

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments#PROV-DM_.28Under_Review.29

15:37:15 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: next topic, prov-dm issues

Luc Moreau: next topic, prov-dm issues

15:37:28 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: during this week I sent proposed responses to 4 issues

Luc Moreau: during this week I sent proposed responses to 4 issues

15:37:32 <Luc> ISSUE-492, ISSUE-500, ISSUE-505, ISSUE-508

Luc Moreau: ISSUE-492, ISSUE-500, ISSUE-505, ISSUE-508

15:37:41 <ivan> issue-492?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-492?

15:37:41 <trackbot> ISSUE-492 -- typo in example -- pending review

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-492 -- typo in example -- pending review

15:37:41 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/492

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/492

15:37:45 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: we had supportive feedback during the week

Luc Moreau: we had supportive feedback during the week

15:37:48 <ivan> issue-500?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-500?

15:37:48 <trackbot> ISSUE-500 -- Data Model Section 2.1.1, hierarchies -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-500 -- Data Model Section 2.1.1, hierarchies -- open

15:37:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/500

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/500

15:37:52 <Luc> ISSUE-492, ISSUE-500, ISSUE-505, ISSUE-508

Luc Moreau: ISSUE-492, ISSUE-500, ISSUE-505, ISSUE-508

15:37:54 <ivan> issue-505?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-505?

15:37:54 <trackbot> ISSUE-505 -- Data Model Section 3 -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-505 -- Data Model Section 3 -- open

15:37:54 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/505

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/505

15:37:55 <khalidBelhajjame> ... the deadline was yesterday

... the deadline was yesterday

15:37:59 <ivan> issue-508?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-508?

15:37:59 <trackbot> ISSUE-508 -- Data Model Table 5 -- pending review

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-508 -- Data Model Table 5 -- pending review

15:37:59 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/508

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/508

15:38:08 <Luc>  accepted: The suggested resolutions in http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments to ISSUE-492, ISSUE-500, ISSUE-505, ISSUE-508 were accepted as responses by the working group. there were no objections to the resolutions on the mailing group only support

Luc Moreau: accepted: The suggested resolutions in http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments to ISSUE-492, ISSUE-500, ISSUE-505, ISSUE-508 were accepted as responses by the working group. there were no objections to the resolutions on the mailing group only support

15:38:14 <khalidBelhajjame> ... the responses are accepted by the group

... the responses are accepted by the group

15:38:41 <Zakim> +??P2

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P2

15:38:48 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P2 is me

Daniel Garijo: Zakim, ??P2 is me

15:38:48 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +dgarijo; got it

15:39:02 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments#PROV-DM_.28Draft.29

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments#PROV-DM_.28Draft.29

15:39:19 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: I sent few emails and drafted responses to 20 issues

Luc Moreau: I sent few emails and drafted responses to 20 issues

15:39:40 <khalidBelhajjame> ... I will ask the group to comment on them, the deadline is wednesday next week

... I will ask the group to comment on them, the deadline is wednesday next week

15:39:42 <Luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Sep/0263.html

Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Sep/0263.html

15:40:01 <khalidBelhajjame> ... there was one negative comment fro PAolo regarding some attributes that we debated at lenth

... there was one negative comment fro PAolo regarding some attributes that we debated at lenth

15:40:06 <khalidBelhajjame> ... length

... length

15:41:03 <khalidBelhajjame> Paolo: I am happy with the resolution at the end

Paolo Missier: I am happy with the resolution at the end

15:41:13 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:41:18 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: any comments?

Luc Moreau: any comments?

15:41:25 <pgroth> are we talking about influence next?

Paul Groth: are we talking about influence next?

15:41:38 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

15:41:42 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: I will send an email asking to give feedback

Luc Moreau: I will send an email asking to give feedback

15:41:46 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:41:52 <khalidBelhajjame> ... and you will have until next wednesday night

... and you will have until next wednesday night

15:42:02 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth

15:42:09 <khalidBelhajjame> pgroth: are we goining to talk about influence?

Paul Groth: are we goining to talk about influence?

15:42:16 <pgroth> ok great

Paul Groth: ok great

15:42:22 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:42:23 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: they are not ready for feedback

Luc Moreau: they are not ready for feedback

15:42:36 <khalidBelhajjame> Luc: next item of prov-dm

Luc Moreau: next item of prov-dm

15:42:39 <Luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Sep/0271.html

Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Sep/0271.html

15:43:39 <pgroth> +q to say yes

Paul Groth: +q to say yes

15:43:50 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:45:12 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth

15:45:12 <Zakim> pgroth, you wanted to say yes

Zakim IRC Bot: pgroth, you wanted to say yes

15:45:39 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-dm

Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-dm

15:45:51 <jcheney> happy either way, but just thought it should be discussed

James Cheney: happy either way, but just thought it should be discussed

15:46:05 <Luc> @jcheney: agreed james

Luc Moreau: @jcheney: agreed james

15:46:24 <jcheney> as long as any repeated definitions are *identical*

James Cheney: as long as any repeated definitions are *identical*

15:46:34 <pgroth> +q you use MAY

Paul Groth: +q you use MAY

15:46:38 <pgroth> +q

Paul Groth: +q

15:46:43 <Luc> @jcheney: they are, they are included automatically from a single file

Luc Moreau: @jcheney: they are, they are included automatically from a single file

15:46:57 <Luc> section 2 defines the core

Luc Moreau: section 2 defines the core

15:47:11 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:48:05 <jcheney> If core vs. non-core is a key property then I think that's a good enough reason.

James Cheney: If core vs. non-core is a key property then I think that's a good enough reason.

15:48:26 <TomDN> I have to go, bye

Tom De Nies: I have to go, bye

15:48:33 <Zakim> -TomDN

Zakim IRC Bot: -TomDN

15:48:59 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:50:13 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:50:17 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth

15:50:18 <ivan> ack pgroth

Ivan Herman: ack pgroth

15:50:48 <pgroth> ack ivan

Paul Groth: ack ivan

15:51:12 <dgarijo> Ivan: it bothers me that there are 2 places where an entity is defined

Ivan Herman: it bothers me that there are 2 places where an entity is defined [ Scribe Assist by Daniel Garijo ]

15:51:23 <Luc> table 5 http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-dm/#prov-dm-types-and-relations still shows what is core

Luc Moreau: table 5 http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-dm/#prov-dm-types-and-relations still shows what is core

15:51:31 <Zakim> -khalidBelhajjame

Zakim IRC Bot: -khalidBelhajjame

15:51:34 <GK> Did I mishear Paul?   I thought he was saying the same as Ivan

Graham Klyne: Did I mishear Paul? I thought he was saying the same as Ivan

15:51:38 <dgarijo> ... if one has more info than the other, then it is an editorial problem

Daniel Garijo: ... if one has more info than the other, then it is an editorial problem

15:51:42 <GK> (in thrust)

Graham Klyne: (in thrust)

15:52:06 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:52:07 <dgarijo> Luc: the overview is not normative

Luc Moreau: the overview is not normative [ Scribe Assist by Daniel Garijo ]

15:52:24 <dgarijo> Ivan: did I misunderstand Paul?

Ivan Herman: did I misunderstand Paul? [ Scribe Assist by Daniel Garijo ]

15:52:29 <jcheney> I think it would be good to ensure that the MAY is reflected in sec. 5 too.

James Cheney: I think it would be good to ensure that the MAY is reflected in sec. 5 too.

15:52:49 <Luc> @jcheney: +1

Luc Moreau: @jcheney: +1

15:52:55 <dgarijo> pgroth: if we say that section 2 is informative, then we have to make sure that no command words appear there.

Paul Groth: if we say that section 2 is informative, then we have to make sure that no command words appear there. [ Scribe Assist by Daniel Garijo ]

15:52:57 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a]

15:53:10 <Luc> yes, james had already indentified a similar problem in section 6

Luc Moreau: yes, james had already indentified a similar problem in section 6

15:53:23 <pgroth> ok

Paul Groth: ok

15:53:25 <dgarijo> Ivan: that is even more true if both sections are normative

Ivan Herman: that is even more true if both sections are normative [ Scribe Assist by Daniel Garijo ]

15:53:39 <dgarijo> ... there should not be discrepancy

Daniel Garijo: ... there should not be discrepancy

15:53:45 <GK> I spotted one MAY in section 2.

Graham Klyne: I spotted one MAY in section 2.

15:53:49 <khalidBelhajjame_> @dgarijo thanks, I can take over

@dgarijo thanks, I can take over

15:53:53 <dgarijo> ... between both of them. That should be checked

Daniel Garijo: ... between both of them. That should be checked

15:53:58 <dgarijo> @khalid ok!

Daniel Garijo: @khalid ok!

15:54:19 <khalidBelhajjame_> Luc: to come to a conclusion, as pgroth we need to come back to the document

Luc Moreau: to come to a conclusion, as pgroth we need to come back to the document

15:54:22 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:54:29 <khalidBelhajjame_> ... and do soe editorial clean up

... and do soe editorial clean up

15:54:34 <GK> .. that was sect 2.1.3 - I didn't see any others.

Graham Klyne: .. that was sect 2.1.3 - I didn't see any others.

15:54:34 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:54:37 <pgroth> but section 5 would be the only normative one

Paul Groth: but section 5 would be the only normative one

15:54:41 <khalidBelhajjame_> ... are we of the view that section 2 is not normative?

... are we of the view that section 2 is not normative?

15:54:49 <khalidBelhajjame_> ivan: I would think so

Ivan Herman: I would think so

15:55:12 <jcheney> q+ to suggest anything "normative-looking" in sec. 2 should be checked to make sure it's also in sec. 5

James Cheney: q+ to suggest anything "normative-looking" in sec. 2 should be checked to make sure it's also in sec. 5

15:55:13 <GK> OK, I'm happy with this too. (i.e. sect 2 informative)

Graham Klyne: OK, I'm happy with this too. (i.e. sect 2 informative)

15:55:39 <stainPhone> +1 for (making) sec 2 informative

Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 for (making) sec 2 informative

15:55:40 <khalidBelhajjame_> pgroth: it is fine to have only section 5 as the normative one

Paul Groth: it is fine to have only section 5 as the normative one

15:55:55 <pgroth> they are

Paul Groth: they are

15:55:57 <Luc> proposed: section 5 would be the only normative section in prov-dm

PROPOSED: section 5 would be the only normative section in prov-dm

15:56:29 <khalidBelhajjame_> ivan: the use of may in that section is not always an ITF may but is an english one

Ivan Herman: the use of may in that section is not always an ITF may but is an english one

15:56:30 <GK> I think ReSpec picks up capitalized MAY, SHOULD, MUST etc and applies different styling.

Graham Klyne: I think ReSpec picks up capitalized MAY, SHOULD, MUST etc and applies different styling.

15:56:54 <khalidBelhajjame_> ... which is fine, but I want to make sure that the use of those terms are checked in the definitions

... which is fine, but I want to make sure that the use of those terms are checked in the definitions

15:56:58 <GK> So the thing to do is use capitalization consistently when editing source.

Graham Klyne: So the thing to do is use capitalization consistently when editing source.

15:57:00 <Luc> proposed: section 5 would be the only normative section in prov-dm

PROPOSED: section 5 would be the only normative section in prov-dm

15:57:00 <khalidBelhajjame_> luc: i did that

Luc Moreau: i did that

15:57:11 <pgroth> james is on the queue

Paul Groth: james is on the queue

15:57:15 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:57:17 <Luc> ack iva

Luc Moreau: ack iva

15:57:40 <ivan> ack jcheney

Ivan Herman: ack jcheney

15:57:40 <Zakim> jcheney, you wanted to suggest anything "normative-looking" in sec. 2 should be checked to make sure it's also in sec. 5

Zakim IRC Bot: jcheney, you wanted to suggest anything "normative-looking" in sec. 2 should be checked to make sure it's also in sec. 5

15:58:11 <khalidBelhajjame_> Luc: are we happy with the proposal?

Luc Moreau: are we happy with the proposal?

15:58:38 <khalidBelhajjame_> GK: I am looking at section 7 to work out if there is something normative in that section

Graham Klyne: I am looking at section 7 to work out if there is something normative in that section

15:59:03 <khalidBelhajjame_> ... I agree that section 2 is inforative, but we need to check the rest

... I agree that section 2 is inforative, but we need to check the rest

15:59:05 <pgroth> the goal is to make Section 5 the only normative one

Paul Groth: the goal is to make Section 5 the only normative one

15:59:08 <Luc> proposed: guidance for editor: section 5 would be the only normative section in prov-dm

PROPOSED: guidance for editor: section 5 would be the only normative section in prov-dm

15:59:29 <khalidBelhajjame_> Luc: I will make edits and will ask people for review

Luc Moreau: I will make edits and will ask people for review

15:59:30 <GK> +1

Graham Klyne: +1

15:59:36 <Luc> accepted: guidance for editor: section 5 would be the only normative section in prov-dm

RESOLVED: guidance for editor: section 5 would be the only normative section in prov-dm

15:59:56 <Luc>  http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments#ISSUE-519_and_ISSUE-523_.28Influence_Inheritance.29

Luc Moreau: ISSUE-519_and_ISSUE-523_.28Influence_Inheritance.29">http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments#ISSUE-519_and_ISSUE-523_.28Influence_Inheritance.29

16:00:02 <khalidBelhajjame_> Luc: issue of inheritance with influence

Luc Moreau: issue of inheritance with influence

16:01:24 <khalidBelhajjame_> ... thinking about this issue, I think that it is not mandatory for generation, usage, ... sub-relations of influence

... thinking about this issue, I think that it is not mandatory for generation, usage, ... sub-relations of influence

16:01:44 <jcheney> luc, you seem to be cutting in and out

James Cheney: luc, you seem to be cutting in and out

16:02:10 <khalidBelhajjame_> ... I formulated a response here, and I would like a feedback on this

... I formulated a response here, and I would like a feedback on this

16:02:21 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:02:23 <khalidBelhajjame_> ... before implementing it

... before implementing it

16:02:37 <khalidBelhajjame_> Luc: any comments?

Luc Moreau: any comments?

16:02:41 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:02:58 <khalidBelhajjame_> GK: I am not sure what inheritance means here

Graham Klyne: I am not sure what inheritance means here

16:03:16 <khalidBelhajjame_> ... what is being described is sub-property relation

... what is being described is sub-property relation

16:03:16 <pgroth> yes

Paul Groth: yes

16:03:26 <pgroth> this is what I asked online

Paul Groth: this is what I asked online

16:03:30 <khalidBelhajjame_> ivan: but that will have ipact on how the ontology is defined

Ivan Herman: but that will have ipact on how the ontology is defined

16:03:43 <satya> It will in prov-o by owl2 rdf semantics

Satya Sahoo: It will in prov-o by owl2 rdf semantics

16:04:06 <khalidBelhajjame_> Luc: in the ontology you will have the class influence and its subclasses, and the same for sub-properties

Luc Moreau: in the ontology you will have the class influence and its subclasses, and the same for sub-properties

16:04:27 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:04:34 <khalidBelhajjame_> ... but in the XML schema, that is not the case

... but in the XML schema, that is not the case

16:04:49 <khalidBelhajjame_> pgroth: I am worring about the ramifications on other form of relations

Paul Groth: I am worring about the ramifications on other form of relations

16:05:35 <satya> sorry, I have to leave

Satya Sahoo: sorry, I have to leave

16:05:38 <satya> bye

Satya Sahoo: bye

16:05:43 <khalidBelhajjame_> Luc: I was not planning to do changes based on this

Luc Moreau: I was not planning to do changes based on this

16:05:43 <jun> Sorry, I have to go now ... bye

Jun Zhao: Sorry, I have to go now ... bye

16:05:48 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo

Zakim IRC Bot: -Satya_Sahoo

16:05:49 <Zakim> -jun

Zakim IRC Bot: -jun

16:06:02 <khalidBelhajjame_> Luc: the prov constraints states what we mean

Luc Moreau: the prov constraints states what we mean

16:06:10 <pgroth> yeah but I'm reading prov-dm

Paul Groth: yeah but I'm reading prov-dm

16:06:10 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-prov-constraints-20120911/#influence-inference

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-prov-constraints-20120911/#influence-inference

16:06:27 <khalidBelhajjame_> Luc: as stated in inference 15

Luc Moreau: as stated in inference 15

16:06:53 <khalidBelhajjame_> ... it can be done through inheritance, but it doesnt have to be done that way

... it can be done through inheritance, but it doesnt have to be done that way

16:07:12 <stainPhone> I guess the reviewer might wonder if you can have wasInfluencedBy while none of the prov subproperies (so to speak) could apply.

Stian Soiland-Reyes: I guess the reviewer might wonder if you can have wasInfluencedBy while none of the prov subproperies (so to speak) could apply.

16:07:15 <khalidBelhajjame_> pgroth: is the problem stems from the use of the UML diagram?

Paul Groth: is the problem stems from the use of the UML diagram?

16:07:16 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller]

16:07:18 <khalidBelhajjame_> Luc: no

Luc Moreau: no

16:07:31 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:07:44 <khalidBelhajjame_> ivan: this is something taht we need to follow on

Ivan Herman: this is something taht we need to follow on

16:07:49 <khalidBelhajjame_> Luc: is Tim still on the call?

Luc Moreau: is Tim still on the call?

16:08:17 <khalidBelhajjame_> ... have you got a view on whether influence should be represented as a superclasss in the UML diagram

... have you got a view on whether influence should be represented as a superclasss in the UML diagram

16:08:25 <khalidBelhajjame_> tlebo: I am inclined towards to

Timothy Lebo: I am inclined towards to

16:08:57 <khalidBelhajjame_> Luc: the problem with inheritance, is that the attributes are inherited, which pose problem, like influencer and influencee

Luc Moreau: the problem with inheritance, is that the attributes are inherited, which pose problem, like influencer and influencee

16:09:02 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

16:09:02 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted

16:09:03 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:09:59 <khalidBelhajjame_> Luc: UML is closer to object oriented programming style

Luc Moreau: UML is closer to object oriented programming style

16:10:10 <khalidBelhajjame_> ... which is not desirable in our context

... which is not desirable in our context

16:10:32 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:10:33 <stainPhone> For instance wasInfluencedBy(agent, activity)

Stian Soiland-Reyes: For instance wasInfluencedBy(agent, activity)

16:10:38 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth

16:10:50 <khalidBelhajjame_> Luc: we have to revisit this issue

Luc Moreau: we have to revisit this issue

16:10:59 <khalidBelhajjame_> ... and come back with a concrete proposal

... and come back with a concrete proposal

16:11:02 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

16:11:04 <Zakim> -tlebo

Zakim IRC Bot: -tlebo

16:11:05 <Zakim> -MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed

16:11:05 <Zakim> -dgarijo

Zakim IRC Bot: -dgarijo

16:11:07 <Zakim> -??P20

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P20

16:11:10 <Zakim> -stain

Zakim IRC Bot: -stain

16:11:12 <khalidBelhajjame_> #luc thanks

#luc thanks

16:11:14 <Zakim> -jcheney

Zakim IRC Bot: -jcheney

16:11:18 <khalidBelhajjame_> @luc, thanks

@luc, thanks

16:11:28 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller.a]

16:11:31 <Zakim> -??P21

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P21

16:11:35 <Zakim> -pgroth

Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth



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