edit

Provenance Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 26 July 2012

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.07.26
Seen
Curt Tilmes, Daniel Garijo, Graham Klyne, Hook Hua, James Cheney, Jun Zhao, Khalid Belhajjame, Luc Moreau, Paolo Missier, Paul Groth, Sandro Hawke, Simon Miles, Stephan Zednik, Stian Soiland-Reyes, Timothy Lebo, Tom De Nies
Regrets
Graham Klyne
Chair
Luc Moreau
Scribe
Curt Tilmes
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. to approve minutes of last week's call link
  2. Rename prov:Source to prov:PrimarySource, prov:qualifiedSource to prov:qualifiedPrimarySource link
Topics
  1. PROV-DM/O/N LCWD

    Documents were released this week and announcements forwarded to various lists. We agreed to further publicize the release on the provenance-dagstuhl, pub-lifsci, and provenance-challenge mailing lists.

  2. prov-constraints

    We discussed reviews of the prov-constraints document, released internally earlier this week. Simon has completed his review. Paul and Tim plan to finish theirs this week. Stian is planning to complete it within a week. Reviewers were thanked for their hard work.

  3. PROV-O PrimarySource

    The group decided that there was a bug in the naming of prov:Source in the ontology. The group resolved to name it prov:PrimarySource, in line with prov-dm. (Likewise, for prov:qualifiedSource which becomes prov:qualifiedPrimarySource.) The change will be implemented immediately.

  4. Working Draft XML

    Stephan outlined a proposed way of working for the prov-xml schema. Working from an initial schema draft, examples from prov-dm and prov-o will be encoded according to this schema, reviewed, and suggested changes debated. The plan is to finalize a schema by September. Please sign up to this task, if interested.

  5. Preparing the Call for Implementation

    Reminder: there is a page listing implementations of PROV; please upload information about any implementation you know of. We discussed what features to implement as part of the CR exit criteria. Paul suggested that section headings could be a good starting point. Stephan indicated that it was the approach he was proposing to follow for prov-xml. The SKOS exit criteria were also regarded as a good approach for vocabularies. It was noted that prov-constraints would probably required different kind of features, and a test suite could potentially be constructed.

14:46:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-prov-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-prov-irc

14:46:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:46:14 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be

14:46:14 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

14:46:15 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV

Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV

14:46:15 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:46:15 <trackbot> Date: 26 July 2012
14:46:15 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes

14:46:29 <Luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.07.26
14:46:39 <Luc> Chair: Luc Moreau
14:46:49 <Luc> Scribe: Curt Tilmes

(Scribe set to Curt Tilmes)

14:46:54 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public

14:47:14 <Luc> Regrets: Graham Klyne
14:50:09 <Luc> zakim, who is here?

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here?

14:50:09 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has not yet started, Luc

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has not yet started, Luc

14:50:10 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain, sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain, sandro

14:54:32 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

14:59:59 <Luc> zakim, who is here?

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here?

14:59:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see no one

15:00:00 <Zakim> On IRC I see TomDN, smiles, jun, Paolo, Curt, CraigTrim, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain, sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see TomDN, smiles, jun, Paolo, Curt, CraigTrim, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain, sandro

15:00:14 <Luc> zakim, who is here?

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here?

15:00:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see no one

15:00:20 <Zakim> On IRC I see hook, tlebo, TomDN, smiles, jun, Paolo, Curt, CraigTrim, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain, sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see hook, tlebo, TomDN, smiles, jun, Paolo, Curt, CraigTrim, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain, sandro

15:00:37 <tlebo> zakim, I'm on the phone.

Timothy Lebo: zakim, I'm on the phone.

15:00:37 <Zakim> I don't understand 'I'm on the phone', tlebo

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'I'm on the phone', tlebo

15:00:43 <Luc> @sandro, zakim does not seem to see anybody on the phone

Luc Moreau: @sandro, zakim does not seem to see anybody on the phone

15:01:12 <Luc> sandro, are you present?

Luc Moreau: sandro, are you present?

15:02:05 <Luc> zakim, who is here?

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here?

15:02:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see no one

15:02:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see christine, jcheney, zednik, hook, tlebo, TomDN, smiles, jun, Paolo, Curt, CraigTrim, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain, sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see christine, jcheney, zednik, hook, tlebo, TomDN, smiles, jun, Paolo, Curt, CraigTrim, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain, sandro

15:02:17 <Curt> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.07.26
15:02:39 <Curt> Scribe: Curt
15:03:13 <Luc> proposed: to approve minutes of last week's call

PROPOSED: to approve minutes of last week's call

15:03:18 <smiles> +1

Simon Miles: +1

15:03:19 <TomDN> +1

Tom De Nies: +1

15:03:21 <zednik> +1

Stephan Zednik: +1

15:03:23 <khalidBelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1

15:03:23 <Curt> +0 (not present)

+0 (not present)

15:03:25 <Paolo> +1

Paolo Missier: +1

15:03:28 <jun> 0 (not here)

Jun Zhao: 0 (not here)

15:03:29 <hook> +1

Hook Hua: +1

15:03:30 <tlebo> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1

15:03:43 <jcheney> +1

James Cheney: +1

15:03:51 <Luc> accepted: to approve minutes of last week's call

RESOLVED: to approve minutes of last week's call

15:04:05 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open

15:04:22 <Curt> Luc: two actions on paulo, 1 on paul

Luc Moreau: two actions on paulo, 1 on paul

15:04:24 <sandro> (previous meeting running late, sorry.)

Sandro Hawke: (previous meeting running late, sorry.)

15:04:38 <Luc> @sandro, zakim does not seem to see anybody on the phone

Luc Moreau: @sandro, zakim does not seem to see anybody on the phone

15:05:04 <Luc> Topic: PROV-DM/O/N LCWD

1. PROV-DM/O/N LCWD

Summary: Documents were released this week and announcements forwarded to various lists. We agreed to further publicize the release on the provenance-dagstuhl, pub-lifsci, and provenance-challenge mailing lists.

<Luc> Summary:Documents were released this week and announcements forwarded to various lists.  We agreed to further publicize the release on the provenance-dagstuhl, pub-lifsci, and provenance-challenge mailing lists.
15:05:21 <Curt> Luc: documents were released as last call working draft

Luc Moreau: documents were released as last call working draft

15:05:30 <Curt> Luc: several announcements have been made about them

Luc Moreau: several announcements have been made about them

15:05:52 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/OutreachInformation

Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/OutreachInformation

15:05:58 <Curt> pgroth: emails have gone out, blog post about the release

Paul Groth: emails have gone out, blog post about the release

15:06:25 <Curt> pgroth: may want to refer to a specific blog post depending on outreach audience and focus

Paul Groth: may want to refer to a specific blog post depending on outreach audience and focus

15:06:46 <Curt> pgroth: Who will reach out and to where?

Paul Groth: Who will reach out and to where?

15:06:53 <Paolo> BTW I sent the announcement to the DataONE project "community"  list

Paolo Missier: BTW I sent the announcement to the DataONE project "community" list

15:07:10 <jcheney> dagstuhl list(s)?

James Cheney: dagstuhl list(s)?

15:07:11 <Curt> pgroth: Sent to several lists, Curt posted to several, others?

Paul Groth: Sent to several lists, Curt posted to several, others?

15:07:22 <jun> Anyone to pub-lifsci list?

Jun Zhao: Anyone to pub-lifsci list?

15:07:23 <jcheney> ok

James Cheney: ok

15:07:35 <sandro> zakim, this is prov

Sandro Hawke: zakim, this is prov

15:07:35 <Zakim> sandro, this was already SW_(PROV)11:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, this was already SW_(PROV)11:00AM

15:07:37 <Curt> Luc: Yes, James, send to dagstuhl

Luc Moreau: Yes, James, send to dagstuhl

15:07:37 <Zakim> ok, sandro; that matches SW_(PROV)11:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, sandro; that matches SW_(PROV)11:00AM

15:07:41 <sandro> zakim, who is on the phone?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the phone?

15:07:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see no one

15:07:53 <Curt> Luc: Jun, yes, please send there

Luc Moreau: Jun, yes, please send there

15:07:53 <pgroth> provenance-challenge?

Paul Groth: provenance-challenge?

15:08:01 <Curt> jun: I will

Jun Zhao: I will

15:08:05 <pgroth> yeah

Paul Groth: yeah

15:08:18 <Luc> topic: prov-constraints

2. prov-constraints

Summary: We discussed reviews of the prov-constraints document, released internally earlier this week. Simon has completed his review. Paul and Tim plan to finish theirs this week. Stian is planning to complete it within a week. Reviewers were thanked for their hard work.

<luc>Summary: We discussed reviews of the prov-constraints document, released internally earlier this week. Simon has completed his review. Paul and Tim plan to finish theirs this week. Stian is planning to complete it within a week. Reviewers were thanked for their hard work.
15:08:36 <Curt> Luc: constraints released internally, check on reviews

Luc Moreau: constraints released internally, check on reviews

15:08:43 <stain> q+

Stian Soiland-Reyes: q+

15:08:43 <Curt> Luc: Simon has submitted a review

Luc Moreau: Simon has submitted a review

15:08:46 <tlebo> me, tomorrow.

Timothy Lebo: me, tomorrow.

15:08:48 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:08:59 <Curt> stain: I will review, but I've just started reading it

Stian Soiland-Reyes: I will review, but I've just started reading it

15:09:12 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

15:09:12 <Curt> stain: May not finish by friday

Stian Soiland-Reyes: May not finish by friday

15:09:19 <Curt> stain: probably need another week

Stian Soiland-Reyes: probably need another week

15:09:27 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:09:29 <Luc> ack st

Luc Moreau: ack st

15:09:33 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

15:09:44 <Curt> pgroth: I will review, probably complete by tomorrow

Paul Groth: I will review, probably complete by tomorrow

15:09:50 <pgroth> https://github.com/pgroth/prov-constraints-validator-spin

Paul Groth: https://github.com/pgroth/prov-constraints-validator-spin

15:09:54 <Curt> pgroth: I will try to implement it

Paul Groth: I will try to implement it

15:10:18 <Curt> pgroth: questions on interactions between prov-n and constraints

Paul Groth: questions on interactions between prov-n and constraints

15:10:29 <Curt> pgroth: talk about those, or include in review?

Paul Groth: talk about those, or include in review?

15:10:33 <pgroth> ok

Paul Groth: ok

15:10:36 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:10:38 <Luc> ack gro

Luc Moreau: ack gro

15:10:41 <TomDN> I'll go over it again tomorrow as well, but don't have much time left in my schedule.

Tom De Nies: I'll go over it again tomorrow as well, but don't have much time left in my schedule.

15:10:41 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:10:42 <Curt> Luc: Include those in the review

Luc Moreau: Include those in the review

15:10:52 <pgroth> it is heavy going

Paul Groth: it is heavy going

15:11:12 <Luc> topic: PROV-O PrimarySource

3. PROV-O PrimarySource

Summary: The group decided that there was a bug in the naming of prov:Source in the ontology. The group resolved to name it prov:PrimarySource, in line with prov-dm. (Likewise, for prov:qualifiedSource which becomes prov:qualifiedPrimarySource.) The change will be implemented immediately.

<luc>Summary: The group decided that there was a bug in the naming of prov:Source in the ontology. The group resolved to name it prov:PrimarySource, in line with prov-dm. (Likewise, for prov:qualifiedSource which becomes prov:qualifiedPrimarySource.) The change will be implemented immediately.
15:11:15 <Curt> Luc: Thanks to reviewers -- it is not a straightforward document

Luc Moreau: Thanks to reviewers -- it is not a straightforward document

15:11:28 <jcheney> We can do a lot to make it easier to understand - it was not straightforward to write either :)

James Cheney: We can do a lot to make it easier to understand - it was not straightforward to write either :)

15:11:33 <jcheney> (at least my parts)

James Cheney: (at least my parts)

15:11:43 <Curt> tlebo: Comments on latest draft about naming inconsistency between prov-n and prov-o

Timothy Lebo: Comments on latest draft about naming inconsistency between prov-n and prov-o

15:11:49 <stain> @pgroth is that SPIN you mentioned? Matt Gamble suggested to use that to me for this purpose just 10 minutes ago ;)

Stian Soiland-Reyes: @pgroth is that SPIN you mentioned? Matt Gamble suggested to use that to me for this purpose just 10 minutes ago ;)

15:12:01 <pgroth> @stain check out the github

Paul Groth: @stain check out the github

15:12:02 <Curt> tlebo: prov-n allowed to type the relation, prov-o uses a class

Timothy Lebo: prov-n allowed to type the relation, prov-o uses a class

15:12:18 <pgroth> @stain it's working well

Paul Groth: @stain it's working well

15:12:38 <Curt> tlebo: proposal to rename class prov:Source to prov:PrimarySource prov:qualifiedSource to prov:qualifiedPrimarySource

Timothy Lebo: proposal to rename class prov:Source to prov:PrimarySource prov:qualifiedSource to prov:qualifiedPrimarySource

15:12:52 <zednik> q+

Stephan Zednik: q+

15:13:02 <Curt> tlebo: Rename will fix inconsistency

Timothy Lebo: Rename will fix inconsistency

15:13:09 <Luc> ack zed

Luc Moreau: ack zed

15:13:42 <zednik> q-

Stephan Zednik: q-

15:13:45 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

15:13:54 <Curt> zednik: There might be some confusion, need to clarify that primary source isn't an entity, it is a relationship between entities

Stephan Zednik: There might be some confusion, need to clarify that primary source isn't an entity, it is a relationship between entities

15:14:00 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

15:14:11 <Luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+

15:14:17 <Curt> pgroth: This isn't really a constraint, just an issue for validation / validator

Paul Groth: This isn't really a constraint, just an issue for validation / validator

15:14:43 <pgroth> ok good

Paul Groth: ok good

15:14:45 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

15:14:47 <Luc> ack luc

Luc Moreau: ack luc

15:14:49 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:14:50 <Curt> Luc: a derivation can't be an entity by definition

Luc Moreau: a derivation can't be an entity by definition

15:15:01 <Luc> Proposal: Rename prov:Source to prov:PrimarySource, prov:qualifiedSource to prov:qualifiedPrimarySource

PROPOSED: Rename prov:Source to prov:PrimarySource, prov:qualifiedSource to prov:qualifiedPrimarySource

15:15:09 <tlebo> I'm glad that prov-c clarifies the confusion on Entity vs. PrimarySource (and Quotation and Revision)

Timothy Lebo: I'm glad that prov-c clarifies the confusion on Entity vs. PrimarySource (and Quotation and Revision)

15:15:10 <stain> @pgroth so https://github.com/pgroth/prov-constraints-validator-spin - looks good

Stian Soiland-Reyes: @pgroth so https://github.com/pgroth/prov-constraints-validator-spin - looks good

15:15:11 <tlebo> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1

15:15:14 <Curt> +1

+1

15:15:17 <zednik> +1

Stephan Zednik: +1

15:15:17 <stain> +1

Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1

15:15:18 <TomDN> +1

Tom De Nies: +1

15:15:19 <jcheney> +1

James Cheney: +1

15:15:22 <hook> +1

Hook Hua: +1

15:15:24 <smiles> +1

Simon Miles: +1

15:15:27 <jun> +1

Jun Zhao: +1

15:15:27 <Paolo> +1

Paolo Missier: +1

15:15:36 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

15:15:45 <Luc> Accepted: Rename prov:Source to prov:PrimarySource, prov:qualifiedSource to prov:qualifiedPrimarySource

RESOLVED: Rename prov:Source to prov:PrimarySource, prov:qualifiedSource to prov:qualifiedPrimarySource

15:16:20 <pgroth> yes

Paul Groth: yes

15:16:38 <Curt> Luc: Is such a rename part of the technical content of the spec?

Luc Moreau: Is such a rename part of the technical content of the spec?

15:16:49 <stain> sounds like an issue.. imagine <body> changing name to <content> after last call of HTML

Stian Soiland-Reyes: sounds like an issue.. imagine <body> changing name to <content> after last call of HTML

15:17:01 <Curt> sandro: Would anyone happy with the spec become unhappy because of this change?   This trivial change is probably ok.

Sandro Hawke: Would anyone happy with the spec become unhappy because of this change? This trivial change is probably ok.

15:17:08 <stain> (or more like <blockquote> to <quote> !)

Stian Soiland-Reyes: (or more like <blockquote> to <quote> !)

15:17:19 <Curt> sandro: Might want to take a closer look

Sandro Hawke: Might want to take a closer look

15:17:36 <stain> we can pay a third party to complain about it ;)

Stian Soiland-Reyes: we can pay a third party to complain about it ;)

15:17:53 <pgroth> +q

Paul Groth: +q

15:17:59 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:18:14 <Curt> Luc: It might introduce a large delay to re-do the last call, how should we handle this?

Luc Moreau: It might introduce a large delay to re-do the last call, how should we handle this?

15:18:33 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:18:39 <Curt> sandro: I would think this is minor enough not to need a new last call, but we might need to look at it

Sandro Hawke: I would think this is minor enough not to need a new last call, but we might need to look at it

15:18:51 <stain> @Sandro +1, don't do a new LC because of this!

Stian Soiland-Reyes: @Sandro +1, don't do a new LC because of this!

15:19:00 <Curt> pgroth: We are proposing this change to respond to comments

Paul Groth: We are proposing this change to respond to comments

15:19:02 <tlebo> +1 @pgroth, we are responding to their comments.

Timothy Lebo: +1 @pgroth, we are responding to their comments.

15:19:28 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

15:19:55 <Curt> sandro: The issue is conformance, test cases, etc. You are allowed to make editorial changes and fix bugs, but not change design decisions.

Sandro Hawke: The issue is conformance, test cases, etc. You are allowed to make editorial changes and fix bugs, but not change design decisions.

15:19:55 <Luc> it is a bug fix, aligning names

Luc Moreau: it is a bug fix, aligning names

15:20:14 <tlebo> this is very bug-like.

Timothy Lebo: this is very bug-like.

15:20:45 <Curt> Luc: We are just trying to fix the bug -- an inconsistency between the documents.

Luc Moreau: We are just trying to fix the bug -- an inconsistency between the documents.

15:20:59 <Curt> sandro: It seems crazy to delay things by 4 weeks for such a minor thing.

Sandro Hawke: It seems crazy to delay things by 4 weeks for such a minor thing.

15:21:09 <Curt> sandro: This seems like a reasonable exception

Sandro Hawke: This seems like a reasonable exception

15:21:27 <Curt> Luc: editors should implement this change and note it as a bug fix

Luc Moreau: editors should implement this change and note it as a bug fix

15:21:38 <Curt> Luc: We should keep good records about the approach

Luc Moreau: We should keep good records about the approach

15:21:40 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:21:45 <Curt> Luc: Ok, Tim?

Luc Moreau: Ok, Tim?

15:21:45 <tlebo> PROV-O latest draft has http://aquarius.tw.rpi.edu/prov-wg/prov-o#changes-since-wd-prov-o-20120724

Timothy Lebo: PROV-O latest draft has http://aquarius.tw.rpi.edu/prov-wg/prov-o#changes-since-wd-prov-o-20120724

15:21:46 <Curt> tlebo: yes

Timothy Lebo: yes

15:21:50 <Luc> topic: Working Draft XML

4. Working Draft XML

Summary: Stephan outlined a proposed way of working for the prov-xml schema. Working from an initial schema draft, examples from prov-dm and prov-o will be encoded according to this schema, reviewed, and suggested changes debated. The plan is to finalize a schema by September. Please sign up to this task, if interested.

<luc>Summary: Stephan outlined a proposed way of working for the prov-xml schema.  Working from an initial schema draft, examples from prov-dm and prov-o will be encoded according to this schema, reviewed, and suggested changes debated. The plan is to finalize a schema by September. Please sign up to this task, if interested.
15:22:44 <Paolo> horrible home networking problems, can't hear a thing -- going to check out

Paolo Missier: horrible home networking problems, can't hear a thing -- going to check out

15:22:46 <Curt> zednik: Per email, there is an XML schema from Luc.  Starting by reviewing that

Stephan Zednik: Per email, there is an XML schema from Luc. Starting by reviewing that

15:22:50 <Luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Jul/0362.html

Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Jul/0362.html

15:23:17 <Curt> zednik: Reviewing terms, creating examples similar to prov-o, mapping things to XML

Stephan Zednik: Reviewing terms, creating examples similar to prov-o, mapping things to XML

15:23:39 <Curt> zednik: providing feedback on XML schema's ability to support the examples

Stephan Zednik: providing feedback on XML schema's ability to support the examples

15:23:59 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:24:03 <Curt> zednik: A google spreadsheet is organizing activities and we will provide feedback on the terms

Stephan Zednik: A google spreadsheet is organizing activities and we will provide feedback on the terms

15:24:10 <Curt> Luc: Are the terms assigned yet?

Luc Moreau: Are the terms assigned yet?

15:24:22 <Curt> zednik: Not all are assigned yet, will get them assigned by the end of this week

Stephan Zednik: Not all are assigned yet, will get them assigned by the end of this week

15:25:04 <Curt> zednik: Anyone that wants access to the spreadsheet, select "Request Access" and I'll grant it

Stephan Zednik: Anyone that wants access to the spreadsheet, select "Request Access" and I'll grant it

15:25:08 <Curt> Luc: Timeline?

Luc Moreau: Timeline?

15:25:28 <Curt> zednik: Need to consult group, haven't nailed down complete schedule yet, but some examples are underway

Stephan Zednik: Need to consult group, haven't nailed down complete schedule yet, but some examples are underway

15:26:18 <Curt> Luc: We agreed on a deadline to have the notes ready for last call review internally by ~mid-November

Luc Moreau: We agreed on a deadline to have the notes ready for last call review internally by ~mid-November

15:26:21 <Luc> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0An15kLxkaMA3dEtpbTNlNEQ4eGJqQUtKVXFVekFxR1E#gid=0

Luc Moreau: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0An15kLxkaMA3dEtpbTNlNEQ4eGJqQUtKVXFVekFxR1E#gid=0

15:27:03 <Curt> Luc: To do that, by a month earlier, we need to have a completed schema, agree on it by September

Luc Moreau: To do that, by a month earlier, we need to have a completed schema, agree on it by September

15:27:09 <Curt> Luc: Need examples by end of August

Luc Moreau: Need examples by end of August

15:27:31 <Curt> zednik: Try to get examples produced by mid-august so we can discuss and revise if needed

Stephan Zednik: Try to get examples produced by mid-august so we can discuss and revise if needed

15:27:55 <Curt> Luc: Paul/Luc will be on holiday second half of august

Luc Moreau: Paul/Luc will be on holiday second half of august

15:28:10 <Curt> sandro: Someone else can chair if neither co-chair is available

Sandro Hawke: Someone else can chair if neither co-chair is available

15:28:41 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:28:51 <Curt> Luc: In the next week or two we should agree on the time line.  While paul/luc are away, the regular telecon could be used to discuss the XML and examples

Luc Moreau: In the next week or two we should agree on the time line. While paul/luc are away, the regular telecon could be used to discuss the XML and examples

15:28:57 <Luc> topic: Preparing the Call for Implementation

5. Preparing the Call for Implementation

Summary: Reminder: there is a page listing implementations of PROV; please upload information about any implementation you know of. We discussed what features to implement as part of the CR exit criteria. Paul suggested that section headings could be a good starting point. Stephan indicated that it was the approach he was proposing to follow for prov-xml. The SKOS exit criteria were also regarded as a good approach for vocabularies. It was noted that prov-constraints would probably required different kind of features, and a test suite could potentially be constructed.

15:29:12 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvImplementations

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvImplementations

<luc>Summary: Reminder: there is a page listing implementations of PROV; please upload information about any implementation you know of.   We discussed what features to implement as part of the CR exit criteria. Paul suggested that section headings could be a good starting point.  Stephan indicated that it was the approach he was proposing to follow for prov-xml. The SKOS exit criteria were also regarded as a good approach for vocabularies. It was noted that prov-constraints would probably required different kind of features, and a test suite could potentially be constructed.
15:29:29 <pgroth> or know about

Paul Groth: or know about

15:29:49 <Curt> Luc: Inviting members of the group to add implementations you are aware of to that wiki page

Luc Moreau: Inviting members of the group to add implementations you are aware of to that wiki page

15:30:27 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvCRExitCriteria

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvCRExitCriteria

15:30:34 <Curt> Luc: paul and I are drafting the charter extension request -- need that page as evidence of uptake of the spec

Luc Moreau: paul and I are drafting the charter extension request -- need that page as evidence of uptake of the spec

15:31:28 <Curt> Luc: We need to identify a set of features that must be implemented by two implementations

Luc Moreau: We need to identify a set of features that must be implemented by two implementations

15:31:58 <Curt> Luc: We need to start thinking about the exit criteria now, so we are ready when we want to move to candidate rec.

Luc Moreau: We need to start thinking about the exit criteria now, so we are ready when we want to move to candidate rec.

15:32:08 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:32:16 <Curt> Luc: How should we address this?

Luc Moreau: How should we address this?

15:32:25 <zednik> q+

Stephan Zednik: q+

15:32:35 <Luc> ack zedn

Luc Moreau: ack zedn

15:33:11 <pgroth> +q

Paul Groth: +q

15:33:14 <Curt> zednik: To clarify -- we need to identify a set of features that must be implmemented.  Is that of all features, or some minimal set?

Stephan Zednik: To clarify -- we need to identify a set of features that must be implmemented. Is that of all features, or some minimal set?

15:33:44 <Curt> Luc: We will look at each feature and want to list which implementations 'support' that feature.

Luc Moreau: We will look at each feature and want to list which implementations 'support' that feature.

15:33:54 <sandro> (But it could be different implementations for each feature)

Sandro Hawke: (But it could be different implementations for each feature)

15:34:00 <Curt> Luc: We want to get at least two implementations for each feature

Luc Moreau: We want to get at least two implementations for each feature

15:34:16 <Curt> Luc: We also want to get a pair, including a producer and a consumer for each feature

Luc Moreau: We also want to get a pair, including a producer and a consumer for each feature

15:34:18 <stain> but what is a 'feature'?  How granular?

Stian Soiland-Reyes: but what is a 'feature'? How granular?

15:34:31 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:34:43 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

15:35:19 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:35:20 <zednik> q+

Stephan Zednik: q+

15:35:24 <Curt> pgroth: We should enumerate features based on section -- we should put up a wiki page to gather the list

Paul Groth: We should enumerate features based on section -- we should put up a wiki page to gather the list

15:35:34 <Luc> ack ze

Luc Moreau: ack ze

15:35:53 <Curt> zednik: We had the same issue of enumerating features for the XML review -- that list may be incomplete, but may be useful for this

Stephan Zednik: We had the same issue of enumerating features for the XML review -- that list may be incomplete, but may be useful for this

15:36:06 <Curt> zednik: Others are invited to review that list and see if any are missing

Stephan Zednik: Others are invited to review that list and see if any are missing

15:36:30 <Curt> Luc: That is a reasonable approach -- we should also list features that are document specific

Luc Moreau: That is a reasonable approach -- we should also list features that are document specific

15:36:50 <Curt> Luc: Each CR will have its own list of features (many of course will be the same)

Luc Moreau: Each CR will have its own list of features (many of course will be the same)

15:36:54 <pgroth> sure

Paul Groth: sure

15:36:58 <pgroth> the rules

Paul Groth: the rules

15:37:09 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:37:16 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

15:37:18 <Curt> Luc: For constraints, e.g. each constraint will become a listed feature

Luc Moreau: For constraints, e.g. each constraint will become a listed feature

15:37:32 <Curt> pgroth: Agreed, that was just a for starting point

Paul Groth: Agreed, that was just a for starting point

15:38:24 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:38:29 <Luc> ack pgr

Luc Moreau: ack pgr

15:38:32 <Curt> pgroth: We need to support the full vocabulary.

Paul Groth: We need to support the full vocabulary.

15:38:49 <pgroth> use the exit criteria page?

Paul Groth: use the exit criteria page?

15:38:55 <pgroth> ok

Paul Groth: ok

15:38:56 <Curt> Luc: Paul, will you create the starting point page and we'll discuss on email in the coming weeks?

Luc Moreau: Paul, will you create the starting point page and we'll discuss on email in the coming weeks?

15:39:04 <jcheney> The RDF semantics is a recommendation - what were its exit criteria?

James Cheney: The RDF semantics is a recommendation - what were its exit criteria?

15:39:06 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:39:15 <zednik> q+

Stephan Zednik: q+

15:39:26 <sandro> jcheney, all of RDF was done together, not separately.

Sandro Hawke: jcheney, all of RDF was done together, not separately.

15:39:51 <sandro> q+

Sandro Hawke: q+

15:39:58 <Curt> zednik: I've started a form in google docs for a questionairre on the implementation/support/etc.

Stephan Zednik: I've started a form in google docs for a questionairre on the implementation/support/etc.

15:40:21 <Luc> ack zedn

Luc Moreau: ack zedn

15:40:23 <Curt> zednik: I'll share the form and request feedback by today or tomorrow

Stephan Zednik: I'll share the form and request feedback by today or tomorrow

15:41:03 <pgroth> that's fine for constraints

Paul Groth: that's fine for constraints

15:41:07 <Curt> sandro: Other groups have done this with executable test cases, each test case is a feature, machine readable results were used to determine coverage

Sandro Hawke: Other groups have done this with executable test cases, each test case is a feature, machine readable results were used to determine coverage

15:41:13 <zednik> q+

Stephan Zednik: q+

15:41:16 <pgroth> maybe

Paul Groth: maybe

15:41:18 <sandro> q-

Sandro Hawke: q-

15:41:19 <Luc> ack san

Luc Moreau: ack san

15:41:21 <zednik> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/20090315/implementation.html

Stephan Zednik: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/20090315/implementation.html

15:41:35 <Curt> zednik: SKOS is the model we are trying to follow

Stephan Zednik: SKOS is the model we are trying to follow

15:41:50 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:41:53 <sandro> thanks

Sandro Hawke: thanks

15:41:57 <dgarijo> I think this approach is cool!

Daniel Garijo: I think this approach is cool!

15:42:39 <Curt> Luc: Constraints may be handled differently -- we might want graphs that violate or are compliant with the spec

Luc Moreau: Constraints may be handled differently -- we might want graphs that violate or are compliant with the spec

15:42:44 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:42:49 <Luc> ack zed

Luc Moreau: ack zed

15:42:51 <zednik> q-

Stephan Zednik: q-

15:42:54 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:44:47 <Luc> rrsagent, set log public

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, set log public

15:44:51 <Luc> rrsagent, draft minutes

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, draft minutes

15:44:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-prov-minutes.html Luc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-prov-minutes.html Luc



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