edit

Provenance Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 09 February 2012

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.02.09
Seen
Curt Tilmes, Daniel Garijo, Eric Stephan, Graham Klyne, James Cheney, Khalid Belhajjame, Luc Moreau, Paul Groth, Sandro Hawke, Satya Sahoo, Simon Miles, Stephan Zednik, Ted Thibodeau, Timothy Lebo, Yolanda Gil, david schaengold
Regrets
Paul Groth
Chair
Luc Moreau
Scribe
Timothy Lebo
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics
  1. admin

    We spent a long time reviewing actions, including those created during F2F2. Of concern is Action-52 to Satya, who assured us he will complete it this week. Luc will enquire about ACTION-54 assigned to Paul. All the others have been kickstarted (and some completed as per schedule).

  2. prov-o

    We discussed progress on the ontology alignment and the use of James rules for systematically mapping prov-dm constructs to the ontology. The team is on track to release the ontology at the next teleconference. Satya agreed to produce an outline of the structure of the new prov-o document, taking into account best practice in the semantic web community. Reviewers of the prov-o ontology were lined up: Luc, Paolo, EricS, StephenC (TBC). Any other reviewer welcome! They will be asked to review the ontology when available.

  3. prov-dm

    Luc explained how the prov-dm editors were working on their working copy. They are in the process of dividing the prov-dm document into three parts: lightweight intro to prov-dm, upgrade path to proper provenance, prov-asn syntax. Initial working drafts for part 1 and 3 are in mercurial. The intent is to have all parts available by next teleconference. We lined up some reviewers for these documents: TimL, EricS, GK, Daniel (tentative), MacTed(tentative), Curt(tentative). Any other reviewer welcome! They will be asked to review these documents when available.

  4. coordinate a release prov-dm, prov-o and prov-primer

    We discussed a joint release of the next set of working drafts for prov-dm, prov-o, prov-primer. It was agreed that concepts in prov-dm were stable (though presentation was being worked on). Satya believes that the prov-o html document can be ready two weeks after the ontology has been agreed on. Simon felt the primer could be updated with the new ontology terms, shortly after the ontology has been frozen.

  5. connection task force

    Kai, Eric, and Christine will hold a call on Monday, resuming the activities of the connection task force. If you are interested, contact them to join the call.

15:42:12 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/09-prov-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/09-prov-irc

<luc>Regrets: Paul Groth
15:42:14 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

15:42:16 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be

15:42:16 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

15:42:17 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
15:42:17 <trackbot> Date: 09 February 2012
15:42:18 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV

Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV

15:42:18 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 18 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 18 minutes

15:42:31 <Luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.02.09
15:42:34 <Luc> Chair: Luc Moreau
15:42:47 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public

15:42:51 <Luc> zakim, who is here?

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here?

15:42:51 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has not yet started, Luc

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has not yet started, Luc

15:42:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, Stian, trackbot, sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, Stian, trackbot, sandro

15:54:21 <Luc> q?

(No events recorded for 11 minutes)

Luc Moreau: q?

15:55:24 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:58:17 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

15:58:24 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes

Zakim IRC Bot: +Curt_Tilmes

15:59:17 <Zakim> + +44.238.059.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.238.059.aaaa

15:59:35 <Luc> zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me

Luc Moreau: zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me

15:59:44 <Zakim> +Luc; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc; got it

16:00:25 <Zakim> + +1.315.330.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.315.330.aabb

16:00:28 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo

Zakim IRC Bot: +Satya_Sahoo

16:00:30 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:00:32 <tlebo> zakim, I am aabb

Timothy Lebo: zakim, I am aabb

16:00:34 <Luc> Hi, we still need a scribe ....

Luc Moreau: Hi, we still need a scribe ....

16:00:39 <tlebo> I'll scribe

Timothy Lebo: I'll scribe

16:00:40 <Zakim> + +1.646.389.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.646.389.aacc

16:00:48 <Luc> thanks tim, everything is setup for you

Luc Moreau: thanks tim, everything is setup for you

16:00:51 <davidschaengold> Zakim, aacc is me

david schaengold: Zakim, aacc is me

16:00:55 <tlebo> yup, thanks.

Timothy Lebo: yup, thanks.

16:00:56 <Luc> scribe: TLebo

(Scribe set to Timothy Lebo)

16:01:00 <Zakim> +tlebo; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +tlebo; got it

16:01:18 <Zakim> +davidschaengold; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +davidschaengold; got it

16:01:50 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a]

16:02:23 <Zakim> + +1.509.967.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.509.967.aadd

16:03:46 <tlebo> topic: admin

1. admin

Summary: We spent a long time reviewing actions, including those created during F2F2. Of concern is Action-52 to Satya, who assured us he will complete it this week. Luc will enquire about ACTION-54 assigned to Paul. All the others have been kickstarted (and some completed as per schedule).

16:03:59 <tlebo> luc: paul hasn't finished the long minutes, we'll do next week.

Luc Moreau: paul hasn't finished the long minutes, we'll do next week.

16:04:02 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open

<luc>Summary: We spent a long time reviewing actions, including those created during F2F2.  Of concern is Action-52 to Satya, who assured us he will complete it this week.   Luc will enquire about ACTION-54 assigned to Paul. All the others have been kickstarted (and some completed as per schedule).
16:04:30 <tlebo> action 51

ACTION-51

16:04:30 <trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, bad ACTION syntax

16:04:32 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2012/02/08/the-provenance-data-model-third-working-draft/

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2012/02/08/the-provenance-data-model-third-working-draft/

16:04:53 <tlebo> luc finished the blog on action 51; closed.

luc finished the blog on ACTION-51; closed.

16:05:03 <Zakim> +??P77

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P77

16:05:13 <Zakim> +??P80

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P80

16:05:16 <tlebo> action 52 on satya - continue DM issues.

ACTION-52 on satya - continue DM issues.

16:05:16 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 52

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - 52

16:05:17 <Zakim> +??P81

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P81

16:05:41 <tlebo> satya: can be folded into the due date next thursday.

Satya Sahoo: can be folded into the due date next thursday.

16:05:44 <MacTed> action-52?

Ted Thibodeau: ACTION-52?

16:05:44 <trackbot> ACTION-52 -- Satya Sahoo to address issues in http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.01.05#prov-dm -- due 2012-01-19 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-52 -- Satya Sahoo to address issues in http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.01.05#prov-dm -- due 2012-01-19 -- OPEN

16:05:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/52

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/52

16:05:51 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

16:06:00 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

16:06:02 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

16:06:23 <tlebo> luc: luc and paolo have asked questions that satya has not answered. please respond.

Luc Moreau: luc and paolo have asked questions that satya has not answered. please respond.

16:06:44 <tlebo> luc: we will be trying to close actions much faster.

Luc Moreau: we will be trying to close actions much faster.

16:06:50 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it

16:06:52 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

16:07:12 <tlebo> satya: today or tomorrow will respond

Satya Sahoo: today or tomorrow will respond

16:07:16 <Luc> https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/53

Luc Moreau: https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/53

16:07:19 <jcheney> zakim, ??P77 is me

James Cheney: zakim, ??P77 is me

16:07:28 <tlebo> action 53 to Kai - bootstrapping dc best practices.

ACTION-53 to Kai - bootstrapping dc best practices.

16:07:28 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 53

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - 53

16:07:39 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jcheney; got it

16:08:31 <tlebo> dgarijo: kai has been working on it, has been getting good responses from other users groups. they seem happy.

Daniel Garijo: kai has been working on it, has been getting good responses from other users groups. they seem happy.

16:08:50 <tlebo> luc: will the activity be seen by prov-wg?

Luc Moreau: will the activity be seen by prov-wg?

16:09:00 <Zakim> +[ISI]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[ISI]

16:09:06 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

16:09:07 <tlebo> dgarijo: mostly on the dc side, kai will come back and report.

Daniel Garijo: mostly on the dc side, kai will come back and report.

16:09:18 <tlebo> dgarijo: eric is hosting a call next monday

Daniel Garijo: eric is hosting a call next monday

16:09:33 <tlebo> dgarijo is on dc call

dgarijo is on dc call

16:09:42 <tlebo> luc: how to monitor progress?

Luc Moreau: how to monitor progress?

16:09:58 <tlebo> dgarijo: still getting started.

Daniel Garijo: still getting started.

16:10:20 <tlebo> luc: action is completed because activity is bootstrapped. please report back regularlly.

Luc Moreau: action is completed because activity is bootstrapped. please report back regularlly.

16:10:33 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:11:10 <Luc> https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/54

Luc Moreau: https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/54

16:11:11 <MacTed> action-54?

Ted Thibodeau: ACTION-54?

16:11:11 <trackbot> ACTION-54 -- Paul Groth to engage implementation task force to begin developing of a test harness around examples (from tim or others) -- due 2012-02-10 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-54 -- Paul Groth to engage implementation task force to begin developing of a test harness around examples (from tim or others) -- due 2012-02-10 -- OPEN

16:11:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/54

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/54

16:11:17 <tlebo> next action is #54 on paolo. Engaging implemenation task force for a test harness

next action is #54 on paul. Engaging implemenation task force for a test harness

16:11:32 <tlebo> luc: helena or stephen?

Luc Moreau: helena or stephen?

16:11:47 <Zakim> -MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed

16:11:52 <tlebo> s/paolo/paul/
16:12:03 <Luc> https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/55

Luc Moreau: https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/55

16:12:26 <tlebo> next action was #55 on mike. make an owl file for next week.

next action was #55 on mike. make an owl file for next week.

16:12:31 <dgarijo> +q

Daniel Garijo: +q

16:12:58 <Luc> ack dg

Luc Moreau: ack dg

16:13:10 <tlebo> dgarijo: khalid and daniel have made a list of terms to agree on and give rules for. (and a list of those we won't)

Daniel Garijo: khalid and daniel have made a list of terms to agree on and give rules for. (and a list of those we won't)

16:13:24 <tlebo> ( http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvRDF )

( http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvRDF )

16:13:25 <satya> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvRDF

Satya Sahoo: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvRDF

16:13:49 <tlebo> luc: timing - next telecon due. on track to meet?

Luc Moreau: timing - next telecon due. on track to meet?

16:13:52 <Zakim> +??P20

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P20

16:13:52 <tlebo> dgarijo: yes

Daniel Garijo: yes

16:13:57 <tlebo> (+1)

(+1)

16:14:00 <Luc> https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/56

Luc Moreau: https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/56

16:14:16 <tlebo> next is action 56 to james update rdf rules and align with dm.

next is ACTION-56 to james update rdf rules and align with dm.

16:14:47 <tlebo> jcheney: coupled with previous issue. using ProvRDF to keep track of DM and ont.

James Cheney: coupled with previous issue. using ProvRDF to keep track of DM and ont.

16:15:02 <dgarijo> I forgot to say that Tim also worked on the list initiated by James.

Daniel Garijo: I forgot to say that Tim also worked on the list initiated by James.

16:15:17 <tlebo> jcheney: daniel, khalid, satya, tim have been working around the doc.

James Cheney: daniel, khalid, satya, tim have been working around the doc.

16:15:30 <tlebo> jcheney: planning to fill in early next week

James Cheney: planning to fill in early next week

16:15:35 <tlebo> q+

q+

16:16:05 <dgarijo> tlebo: clarification about the rules James is talking about.

Timothy Lebo: clarification about the rules James is talking about. [ Scribe Assist by Daniel Garijo ]

16:16:23 <dgarijo> jcheney: the rules in the provRDF file.

James Cheney: the rules in the provRDF file. [ Scribe Assist by Daniel Garijo ]

16:16:31 <khalidbelhajjame> Translation rules

Khalid Belhajjame: Translation rules

16:17:02 <Luc> https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/57

Luc Moreau: https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/57

16:17:04 <dgarijo> tlebo: the plan is to have completed the left side part of the list

Timothy Lebo: the plan is to have completed the left side part of the list [ Scribe Assist by Daniel Garijo ]

16:17:05 <tlebo> (anyone is welcome to help me fill in the left-hand sides from DM - this needs to be done by Friday)

(anyone is welcome to help me fill in the left-hand sides from DM - this needs to be done by Friday)

16:17:30 <tlebo> luc: paq, paul, graham. #57 due end of month. we'll leave it

Luc Moreau: paq, paul, graham. #57 due end of month. we'll leave it

16:17:31 <Luc> https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/58

Luc Moreau: https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/58

16:17:37 <Luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Feb/0021.html

Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Feb/0021.html

16:17:56 <dgarijo> @tlebo: I though that that was what Khalid and I did with the lists :)

Daniel Garijo: @tlebo: I though that that was what Khalid and I did with the lists :)

16:17:58 <tlebo> luc: action 58 to paul. he wrote summary of f2f.

Luc Moreau: ACTION-58 to paul. he wrote summary of f2f.

16:18:07 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/?p=451

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/?p=451

16:18:09 <tlebo> @daniel, nope, as I said in email.

@daniel, nope, as I said in email.

16:18:23 <tlebo> luc: closing 58

Luc Moreau: closing 58

16:18:37 <GK_> Oops, sorry I'm late.  Connecting now.

Graham Klyne: Oops, sorry I'm late. Connecting now.

16:19:01 <Luc> https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/60

Luc Moreau: https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/60

16:19:41 <tlebo> luc: 60 on luc, xml schema. he sent email to list. some responses. james' approach similar?

Luc Moreau: 60 on luc, xml schema. he sent email to list. some responses. james' approach similar?

16:19:47 <dgarijo> @tlebo: ok.

Daniel Garijo: @tlebo: ok.

16:19:51 <tlebo> jcheney: was using attributes, but can change to elemetns.

James Cheney: was using attributes, but can change to elemetns.

16:20:02 <tlebo> luc: stephen, tim is interested

Luc Moreau: stephen, tim is interested

16:20:07 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

16:20:07 <tlebo> (+1)

(+1)

16:20:11 <Zakim> +??P0

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P0

16:20:13 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

16:20:13 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it

16:20:15 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

16:20:15 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

16:20:29 <GK_> zakim, ??p0 is me

Graham Klyne: zakim, ??p0 is me

16:20:29 <Zakim> +GK_; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +GK_; got it

16:20:55 <tlebo> tim: will look through it, not sure what he'll do with it.

Timothy Lebo: will look through it, not sure what he'll do with it.

16:21:11 <tlebo> luc: aim for an agreement in two weeks time?

Luc Moreau: aim for an agreement in two weeks time?

16:21:28 <satya> tlebo: yes

Timothy Lebo: yes [ Scribe Assist by Satya Sahoo ]

16:21:42 <Luc> https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/61

Luc Moreau: https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/61

16:21:55 <tlebo> luc: 61 on james update semantics to suit DM WD3

Luc Moreau: 61 on james update semantics to suit DM WD3

16:22:27 <tlebo> jcheney: provrdf an mappings are part of it and due ealier. so focusing on that.

James Cheney: provrdf an mappings are part of it and due ealier. so focusing on that.

16:22:30 <Luc> https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/62

Luc Moreau: https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/62

16:22:45 <tlebo> luc: 62 on luc to simplify intro do DM

Luc Moreau: 62 on luc to simplify intro do DM

16:22:55 <tlebo> luc: will report later in agenda.

Luc Moreau: will report later in agenda.

16:23:17 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:23:23 <tlebo> q-

q-

16:24:22 <tlebo> luc: next face to face... coordinate with semweb activity.... mroe next week.

Luc Moreau: next face to face... coordinate with semweb activity.... mroe next week.

16:24:38 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:24:42 <tlebo> luc: other issues?

Luc Moreau: other issues?

16:24:56 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes

Zakim IRC Bot: -Curt_Tilmes

16:41:38 <tlebo> topic: prov-o

(No events recorded for 16 minutes)

2. prov-o

Summary: We discussed progress on the ontology alignment and the use of James rules for systematically mapping prov-dm constructs to the ontology. The team is on track to release the ontology at the next teleconference. Satya agreed to produce an outline of the structure of the new prov-o document, taking into account best practice in the semantic web community. Reviewers of the prov-o ontology were lined up: Luc, Paolo, EricS, StephenC (TBC). Any other reviewer welcome! They will be asked to review the ontology when available.

<luc>Summary: We discussed progress on the ontology alignment and the use of James rules for systematically mapping prov-dm constructs to the ontology. The team is on track to release the ontology at the next teleconference.  Satya agreed to produce an outline of the structure of the new prov-o document, taking into account best practice in the semantic web community. Reviewers of the prov-o ontology were lined up: Luc, Paolo, EricS, StephenC (TBC). Any other reviewer welcome! They will be asked to review the ontology when available.
16:25:01 <Luc> can we see this list of term?

Luc Moreau: can we see this list of term?

16:25:10 <tlebo> satya: reviewing wd3, have terms to map, nothing else to report. Mike finished blog post.

Satya Sahoo: reviewing wd3, have terms to map, nothing else to report. Mike finished blog post.

16:25:20 <tlebo> satya: simple exmaple of how to use prov-o. sent update yesterday

Satya Sahoo: simple exmaple of how to use prov-o. sent update yesterday

16:25:21 <Luc> can we see the blog post example?

Luc Moreau: can we see the blog post example?

16:25:26 <tlebo> (I didn't see update)

(I didn't see update)

16:25:42 <tlebo> (ok)

(ok)

16:25:51 <tlebo> satya: blog post coming outt

Satya Sahoo: blog post coming outt

16:26:01 <dgarijo> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvRDF

Daniel Garijo: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvRDF

16:26:03 <tlebo> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvRDF#List_of_terms_that_are_going_to_be_modeled_in_order_to_align_PROV-O_to_WD3

http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvRDF#List_of_terms_that_are_going_to_be_modeled_in_order_to_align_PROV-O_to_WD3

16:26:10 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes

Zakim IRC Bot: +Curt_Tilmes

16:26:18 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:26:35 <tlebo> q+ to note that I think a different format would be better, will try to address on email and skype.

q+ to note that I think a different format would be better, will try to address on email and skype.

16:26:36 <dgarijo> although that list has to be merged with Khalid's

Daniel Garijo: although that list has to be merged with Khalid's

16:26:41 <tlebo> luc: wasAssociatedWith - why not?

Luc Moreau: wasAssociatedWith - why not?

16:26:50 <tlebo> luc: quite important.

Luc Moreau: quite important.

16:27:14 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:27:17 <Luc> ack tle

Luc Moreau: ack tle

16:27:17 <Zakim> tlebo, you wanted to note that I think a different format would be better, will try to address on email and skype.

Zakim IRC Bot: tlebo, you wanted to note that I think a different format would be better, will try to address on email and skype.

16:28:05 <tlebo> q-

q-

16:28:26 <tlebo> luc: good to see that we can be systematic in translation.

Luc Moreau: good to see that we can be systematic in translation.

16:28:35 <tlebo> luc: issues in DM?

Luc Moreau: issues in DM?

16:29:27 <Zakim> +??P25

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P25

16:29:39 <satya> @GK: yes, it is a discussion board

Satya Sahoo: @GK: yes, it is a discussion board

16:30:09 <tlebo> luc: would be good for dm and provo teams to discuss

Luc Moreau: would be good for dm and provo teams to discuss

16:30:16 <Zakim> + +1.443.708.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.443.708.aaee

16:30:27 <tlebo> tlebo: we can do that after the owl file and mapping page

Timothy Lebo: we can do that after the owl file and mapping page

16:30:33 <tlebo> luc: we need the HTML, too.

Luc Moreau: we need the HTML, too.

16:30:47 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:30:53 <jcheney> @GK: Tim's point I think is that the wiki page should be DM-centric in order to aid producing the deliverable(s)

James Cheney: @GK: Tim's point I think is that the wiki page should be DM-centric in order to aid producing the deliverable(s)

16:30:54 <tlebo> luc: we need a doc that semweb community will look at after the primer.

Luc Moreau: we need a doc that semweb community will look at after the primer.

16:31:20 <khalidbelhajjame> We also need to thing about the structure of the document

Khalid Belhajjame: We also need to thing about the structure of the document

16:31:23 <khalidbelhajjame> think

Khalid Belhajjame: think

16:31:32 <tlebo> satya: having concensus on owl file will aid HTML writing.

Satya Sahoo: having concensus on owl file will aid HTML writing.

16:31:45 <tlebo> luc: but thought on how to structure doc before hand.

Luc Moreau: but thought on how to structure doc before hand.

16:31:56 <tlebo> (I think we agreed to get rid of this laundry list approach in the HTML)

(I think we agreed to get rid of this laundry list approach in the HTML)

16:32:09 <dgarijo> @khalid : +1.

Daniel Garijo: @khalid : +1.

16:32:47 <tlebo> luc: ivan's feedback after f2f. many ontologies that were well presented. OPMV, FOAF, (not enough examples in foaf html)

Luc Moreau: ivan's feedback after f2f. many ontologies that were well presented. OPMV, FOAF, (not enough examples in foaf html)

16:33:02 <tlebo> luc: good to think about how the HTML will be structured.

Luc Moreau: good to think about how the HTML will be structured.

16:33:05 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:33:32 <GK_> (I've an idea that some of the FOAF/OPMV content is auto-generated from the OWN description)

Graham Klyne: (I've an idea that some of the FOAF/OPMV content is auto-generated from the OWN description)

16:33:45 <tlebo> luc: DMers shouldn't impose the provo html structure.

Luc Moreau: DMers shouldn't impose the provo html structure.

16:34:09 <tlebo> luc: action on structure of provo doc?

Luc Moreau: action on structure of provo doc?

16:34:28 <tlebo> satya: will take action on structure of prov-o html

Satya Sahoo: will take action on structure of prov-o html

16:34:53 <tlebo> action: satya to design structure of provo-html

ACTION: satya to design structure of provo-html

16:34:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-63 - Design structure of provo-html [on Satya Sahoo - due 2012-02-16].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-63 - Design structure of provo-html [on Satya Sahoo - due 2012-02-16].

16:35:01 <Luc> action to satya to outline the new structure of the prov-o document, to be discussed on 23

Luc Moreau: action to satya to outline the new structure of the prov-o document, to be discussed on 23

16:35:01 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - to

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - to

16:35:29 <tlebo> luc: ivan suggested that it is usful to line up reviewers of the draft.

Luc Moreau: ivan suggested that it is usful to line up reviewers of the draft.

16:35:30 <GK_> @luc: that action got created with 16-feb due date, not 23rd

Graham Klyne: @luc: that action got created with 16-feb due date, not 23rd

16:35:46 <tlebo> luc: need reviewers to provo html

Luc Moreau: need reviewers to provo html

16:35:51 <tlebo> luc: volunteers?

Luc Moreau: volunteers?

16:36:00 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:36:12 <estephan> I will review

Eric Stephan: I will review

16:36:18 <tlebo> satya: think it would be helpful to have DMers review, too.

Satya Sahoo: think it would be helpful to have DMers review, too.

16:36:36 <tlebo> luc: volunteers?

Luc Moreau: volunteers?

16:36:56 <tlebo> luc: zednick?

Luc Moreau: zednick?

16:36:58 <GK_> (I probably shall review it, but I'm reluctant to make formal commitment at this time, until it's actually available.)

Graham Klyne: (I probably shall review it, but I'm reluctant to make formal commitment at this time, until it's actually available.)

16:37:13 <tlebo> @etephan said he would, too

@etephan said he would, too

16:37:21 <tlebo> luc: simon?

Luc Moreau: simon?

16:37:34 <zednik> I am willing to review prov-o

Stephan Zednik: I am willing to review prov-o

16:37:36 <satya> perhaps both Simon and Yolanda?

Satya Sahoo: perhaps both Simon and Yolanda?

16:37:38 <estephan> +1

Eric Stephan: +1

16:37:44 <tlebo> smiles: sure, from pov of primer

Simon Miles: sure, from pov of primer

16:38:17 <zednik> too many stephans ;-)

Stephan Zednik: too many stephans ;-)

16:38:23 <tlebo> (too many "steph*n"s)

(too many "steph*n"s)

16:39:08 <davidschaengold> I'll volunteer as well to review it

david schaengold: I'll volunteer as well to review it

16:39:21 <satya> @Stephan: you are co-author :)

Satya Sahoo: @Stephan: you are co-author :)

16:39:35 <estephan> +q

Eric Stephan: +q

16:39:50 <GK_> (What I'd like to do is review the ontology side-by-side with the *simplified* DM)

Graham Klyne: (What I'd like to do is review the ontology side-by-side with the *simplified* DM)

16:39:51 <tlebo> core dump

core dump

16:39:59 <Luc> ack es

Luc Moreau: ack es

16:40:11 <tlebo> luc, paolo, eric stephen, cresswell, perhaps GK

luc, paolo, eric stephen, cresswell, perhaps GK

16:40:31 <tlebo> estephan: hwo to give feedback?

Eric Stephan: hwo to give feedback?

16:41:07 <tlebo> luc: we need to know someone looked at it.

Luc Moreau: we need to know someone looked at it.

16:41:18 <satya> @Eric: raise issues?

Satya Sahoo: @Eric: raise issues?

16:41:21 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:41:38 <tlebo> topic: prov-dm

3. prov-dm

Summary: Luc explained how the prov-dm editors were working on their working copy. They are in the process of dividing the prov-dm document into three parts: lightweight intro to prov-dm, upgrade path to proper provenance, prov-asn syntax. Initial working drafts for part 1 and 3 are in mercurial. The intent is to have all parts available by next teleconference. We lined up some reviewers for these documents: TimL, EricS, GK, Daniel (tentative), MacTed(tentative), Curt(tentative). Any other reviewer welcome! They will be asked to review these documents when available.

<Luc>Summary: Luc explained how the prov-dm editors were  working on their working copy. They are in the process of dividing the prov-dm document into three parts: lightweight intro to prov-dm, upgrade path to proper provenance, prov-asn syntax.  Initial working drafts for part 1 and 3 are in mercurial. The intent is to have all parts available by next teleconference.  We lined up some reviewers for these documents: TimL,  EricS, GK, Daniel (tentative), MacTed(tentative), Curt(tentative). Any other reviewer welcome! They will be asked to review these documents when available.
16:41:57 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvDMWorkingDraft4

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvDMWorkingDraft4

16:42:12 <tlebo> luc: wiki page on current activities

Luc Moreau: wiki page on current activities

16:42:20 <tlebo> luc: trying to adderss action 62 - simplify

Luc Moreau: trying to adderss ACTION-62 - simplify

16:42:41 <tlebo> luc: created new directory in hg

Luc Moreau: created new directory in hg

16:42:53 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/towards-wd4.html

Luc Moreau: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/towards-wd4.html

16:43:04 <tlebo> luc: welcome to look, but still in progress.

Luc Moreau: welcome to look, but still in progress.

16:43:11 <tlebo> luc: decided to structure into 3 parts

Luc Moreau: decided to structure into 3 parts

16:43:45 <tlebo> luc: part 1: model based on no "Thing"

Luc Moreau: part 1: model based on no "Thing"

16:44:07 <tlebo> luc: part 1: support scruffy prov (so no attributes, charact intervals, constraints)

Luc Moreau: part 1: support scruffy prov (so no attributes, charact intervals, constraints)

16:44:11 <tlebo> luc: all moved out of doc

Luc Moreau: all moved out of doc

16:44:20 <tlebo> luc: dropped Account Record.

Luc Moreau: dropped Account Record.

16:44:27 <GK_> q+ to ask if the first part will be anything more than a summary of the ASN expression types

Graham Klyne: q+ to ask if the first part will be anything more than a summary of the ASN expression types

16:44:42 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/prov-asn.html

Luc Moreau: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/prov-asn.html

16:44:51 <tlebo> luc: part 3: ASN and grammar

Luc Moreau: part 3: ASN and grammar

16:45:06 <tlebo> luc: part 2: "upgrade path"

Luc Moreau: part 2: "upgrade path"

16:45:15 <tlebo> (from scruffy to proper prov)

(from scruffy to proper prov)

16:45:32 <GK_> Would prefer to see it described as a "refinement path" rather than "upgrade"

Graham Klyne: Would prefer to see it described as a "refinement path" rather than "upgrade"

16:45:36 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:45:38 <tlebo> luc: first version of this draft by next telecon

Luc Moreau: first version of this draft by next telecon

16:46:11 <dgarijo> yesterday on the DC call, Thom Baker said that he really liked the distinction between scruffy/proper provenance.

Daniel Garijo: yesterday on the DC call, Thom Baker said that he really liked the distinction between scruffy/proper provenance.

16:46:14 <tlebo> gk: part 1 any mor than summary of expression types?

Graham Klyne: part 1 any mor than summary of expression types?

16:46:20 <tlebo> gk: want it that simple.

Graham Klyne: want it that simple.

16:46:20 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/towards-wd4.html

Luc Moreau: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/towards-wd4.html

16:46:34 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:47:03 <tlebo> luc: tried to provide intuitive def for all concepts with examples in english

Luc Moreau: tried to provide intuitive def for all concepts with examples in english

16:47:43 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:47:44 <tlebo> luc: list of terms an dtheir componetns with illustration

Luc Moreau: list of terms an dtheir componetns with illustration

16:47:49 <Luc> ack GK

Luc Moreau: ack GK

16:47:49 <Zakim> GK_, you wanted to ask if the first part will be anything more than a summary of the ASN expression types

Zakim IRC Bot: GK_, you wanted to ask if the first part will be anything more than a summary of the ASN expression types

16:48:15 <tlebo> gk: looks closer to waht group was asked to do.

Graham Klyne: looks closer to waht group was asked to do.

16:48:45 <tlebo> luc: happy with anyone to look at and comment on (do not raise issues)

Luc Moreau: happy with anyone to look at and comment on (do not raise issues)

16:49:06 <tlebo> luc: if have commetns, write notes on page and send email notifying

Luc Moreau: if have commetns, write notes on page and send email notifying

16:49:30 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:49:40 <tlebo> luc: comments?

Luc Moreau: comments?

16:49:46 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

16:49:46 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted

16:49:46 <GK_> I'll probably hold off detailed review untilk that 1st draft is available for co9mment

Graham Klyne: I'll probably hold off detailed review untilk that 1st draft is available for co9mment

16:50:03 <tlebo> macted: which URLs are which part of breakout

Ted Thibodeau: which URLs are which part of breakout

16:50:14 <Luc> part 1: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/towards-wd4.html

Luc Moreau: part 1: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/towards-wd4.html

16:50:26 <Luc> part 3: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/prov-asn.html

Luc Moreau: part 3: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/prov-asn.html

16:50:52 <tlebo> luc: will add link to wiki page

Luc Moreau: will add link to wiki page

16:50:58 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

16:50:58 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

16:51:07 <tlebo> luc: would like reviewers of docs for next week

Luc Moreau: would like reviewers of docs for next week

16:51:23 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:51:23 <tlebo> +1

+1

16:51:25 <estephan> +1 (Eric Stephan)

Eric Stephan: +1 (Eric Stephan)

16:51:27 <GK_> I intend to review

Graham Klyne: I intend to review

16:51:44 <dgarijo> I'll try too

Daniel Garijo: I'll try too

16:51:55 <Curt> I'll try

Curt Tilmes: I'll try

16:52:33 <tlebo> topic: coordinate a release prov-dm,  prov-o and prov-primer

4. coordinate a release prov-dm, prov-o and prov-primer

Summary: We discussed a joint release of the next set of working drafts for prov-dm, prov-o, prov-primer. It was agreed that concepts in prov-dm were stable (though presentation was being worked on). Satya believes that the prov-o html document can be ready two weeks after the ontology has been agreed on. Simon felt the primer could be updated with the new ontology terms, shortly after the ontology has been frozen.

<Luc>Summary: We discussed a joint release of the next set of working drafts for prov-dm, prov-o, prov-primer.  It was agreed that concepts in prov-dm were stable (though presentation was being worked on).  Satya believes that the prov-o html document can be ready two weeks after the ontology has been agreed on. Simon felt the primer could be updated with the new ontology terms, shortly after the ontology has been frozen.
16:52:54 <tlebo> reading list: primer, prov-o, dm

reading list: primer, prov-o, dm

16:53:09 <tlebo> luc: comments on joint release

Luc Moreau: comments on joint release

16:53:10 <tlebo> ?

?

16:53:16 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:53:17 <smiles> q+

Simon Miles: q+

16:53:40 <Luc> ack smiles

Luc Moreau: ack smiles

16:53:59 <tlebo> smiles: from f2f, we have a schedule. prov-o owl next week and html week after.

Simon Miles: from f2f, we have a schedule. prov-o owl next week and html week after.

16:54:05 <tlebo> ... primer 8 march.

... primer 8 march.

16:54:27 <tlebo> ... then 1-2 weeks from that (20 march)

... then 1-2 weeks from that (20 march)

16:54:36 <tlebo> luc: we've slipped by 1 month

Luc Moreau: we've slipped by 1 month

16:54:57 <tlebo> luc: timetable discussed at f2f

Luc Moreau: timetable discussed at f2f

16:55:06 <tlebo> ... 4th draft 1 march

... 4th draft 1 march

16:55:13 <tlebo> ... 5th draft 1 apri.l

... 5th draft 1 apri.l

16:55:30 <tlebo> ... release of all 1 april?

... release of all 1 april?

16:55:55 <tlebo> ... concerned.

... concerned.

16:56:00 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:56:00 <tlebo> ... all docs earlier?

... all docs earlier?

16:57:02 <tlebo> satya: last feb first march

Satya Sahoo: last feb first march

16:57:05 <GK_> I personally think we need to get the simplified DM nailed and stabilized (in broad principle) before charging too fast with the other docs.

Graham Klyne: I personally think we need to get the simplified DM nailed and stabilized (in broad principle) before charging too fast with the other docs.

16:57:14 <tlebo> (I think first week march would be reasonable)

(I think first week march would be reasonable)

16:57:23 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller.a]

16:57:33 <satya> @GK: I agree

Satya Sahoo: @GK: I agree

16:58:01 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:58:12 <tlebo> smiles: if we agree on the owl, primer by end of feb. but what if there are concerns on the owl?

Simon Miles: if we agree on the owl, primer by end of feb. but what if there are concerns on the owl?

16:58:30 <dgarijo> I don't think that the primer is going to change a lot..

Daniel Garijo: I don't think that the primer is going to change a lot..

16:58:48 <tlebo> gk_: really helpful if broad DM stable before pushing on other docs.

Graham Klyne: really helpful if broad DM stable before pushing on other docs.

16:59:24 <smiles> @dgarijo yes, I hope you're right :)

Simon Miles: @dgarijo yes, I hope you're right :)

16:59:33 <tlebo> luc: provo due fairly soon

Luc Moreau: provo due fairly soon

16:59:47 <tlebo> satya: agree that we need DM stable.

Satya Sahoo: agree that we need DM stable.

17:00:10 <tlebo> q+ to point out that the concepts aren't changing in DM. so it's "stable"

q+ to point out that the concepts aren't changing in DM. so it's "stable"

17:00:41 <smiles> Apologies, but I will have to leave in a minute...

Simon Miles: Apologies, but I will have to leave in a minute...

17:01:01 <tlebo> luc: we need to close issues.

Luc Moreau: we need to close issues.

17:01:11 <GK_> I'm fine that there may be outstanding issues (near term); but the DM sets a general direction that we're all trying to follow

Graham Klyne: I'm fine that there may be outstanding issues (near term); but the DM sets a general direction that we're all trying to follow

17:01:22 <Luc> ack tle

Luc Moreau: ack tle

17:01:22 <Zakim> tlebo, you wanted to point out that the concepts aren't changing in DM. so it's "stable"

Zakim IRC Bot: tlebo, you wanted to point out that the concepts aren't changing in DM. so it's "stable"

17:01:53 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

17:01:57 <dgarijo> @tlebo:+1

Daniel Garijo: @tlebo:+1

17:02:13 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller]

17:02:18 <tlebo> topic: connection task force

5. connection task force

Summary: Kai, Eric, and Christine will hold a call on Monday, resuming the activities of the connection task force. If you are interested, contact them to join the call.

<luc>Summary: Kai, Eric, and Christine will hold a call on Monday, resuming the activities of the connection task force. If you are interested, contact them to join the call.
17:02:38 <tlebo> estephan: kai did report on plans from f2f2. dc mapping. great effort.

Eric Stephan: kai did report on plans from f2f2. dc mapping. great effort.

17:02:50 <khalidbelhajjame> Sorry, I will have to leave as I have another meeting

Khalid Belhajjame: Sorry, I will have to leave as I have another meeting

17:02:53 <tlebo> ... while that continues, we should meet as a task force periodically.

... while that continues, we should meet as a task force periodically.

17:03:03 <YolandaGil> @Simon: there were a few minor things we wanted to update on the planner, we can discuss them when we meet at the end of the month.

Yolanda Gil: @Simon: there were a few minor things we wanted to update on the planner, we can discuss them when we meet at the end of the month.

17:03:11 <tlebo> ... most on task force have connections and would be good to keep the report alive.

... most on task force have connections and would be good to keep the report alive.

17:03:15 <Zakim> -??P80

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P80

17:03:35 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

17:03:45 <estephan> +q

Eric Stephan: +q

17:03:57 <Luc> ack e

Luc Moreau: ack e

17:04:14 <tlebo> estephan: monday call details on email

Eric Stephan: monday call details on email

17:04:20 <YolandaGil> I'll be joining the conn TF call

Yolanda Gil: I'll be joining the conn TF call

17:04:23 <tlebo> luc: that's it. meet next week.

Luc Moreau: that's it. meet next week.

17:04:24 <Zakim> -davidschaengold

Zakim IRC Bot: -davidschaengold

17:04:25 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo

Zakim IRC Bot: -Satya_Sahoo

17:04:26 <Zakim> -??P81

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P81

17:04:27 <GK_> Bye

Graham Klyne: Bye

17:04:27 <Zakim> - +1.443.708.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.443.708.aaee

17:04:27 <Zakim> - +1.509.967.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.509.967.aadd

17:04:27 <Zakim> -jcheney

Zakim IRC Bot: -jcheney

17:04:29 <Zakim> -[ISI]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[ISI]

17:04:29 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

17:04:31 <Zakim> -MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed

17:04:33 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes

Zakim IRC Bot: -Curt_Tilmes

17:04:35 <Zakim> -tlebo

Zakim IRC Bot: -tlebo

17:04:39 <Zakim> -Luc

Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc

17:04:51 <Luc> rrsagent, set log public

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, set log public

17:04:53 <Zakim> -GK_

Zakim IRC Bot: -GK_

17:04:55 <Luc> rrsagent, draft minutes

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, draft minutes

17:04:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/09-prov-minutes.html Luc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/09-prov-minutes.html Luc

17:04:59 <Luc> trackbot, end telcon

Luc Moreau: trackbot, end telcon

17:04:59 <trackbot> Sorry, Luc, I don't understand 'trackbot, end telcon '. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, Luc, I don't understand 'trackbot, end telcon '. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

17:05:00 <Zakim> -??P25

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P25

17:05:16 <Zakim> -??P20

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P20

17:05:18 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended

17:05:18 <Zakim> Attendees were Curt_Tilmes, Luc, +1.315.330.aabb, Satya_Sahoo, [IPcaller], +1.646.389.aacc, tlebo, davidschaengold, +1.509.967.aadd, MacTed, jcheney, [ISI], Sandro, GK_,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Curt_Tilmes, Luc, +1.315.330.aabb, Satya_Sahoo, [IPcaller], +1.646.389.aacc, tlebo, davidschaengold, +1.509.967.aadd, MacTed, jcheney, [ISI], Sandro, GK_,

17:05:18 <Zakim> ... +1.443.708.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.443.708.aaee



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