edit

Provenance Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 05 January 2012

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.01.05
Seen
Daniel Garijo, Graham Klyne, James McCusker, James Cheney, Khalid Belhajjame, Luc Moreau, Paolo Missier, Paul Groth, Sandro Hawke, Satya Sahoo, Simon Miles, Stian Soiland-Reyes, Ted Thibodeau, Timothy Lebo, Yolanda Gil
Regrets
Stian Soiland-Reyes
Chair
Luc Moreau
Scribe
Graham Klyne
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics
  1. Admin

    Minutes of the last teleconference were approved. Please volunteer for scribing!

  2. Disseminating Working Drafts

    We discussed ways of advertising and disseminating our working drafts. Paul will draft a blog overviewing all prov-wg documents. Luc will draft a blog explaining changes in prov-dm. Everybody is invited to share documents within their respective communities. The public-prov mailing list will be used for announcement, and the newly created public-prov-dev mailing list will focus on development issues.

  3. Plan for Second Working Drafts (continued)

    The editors of the prov-primer and prov-o documents discussed their plan for future working drafts. It was agreed that F2F2 is a good target to aim at, to release new versions of the documents synchronized with the current state of prov-dm.

  4. prov-dm

    Paolo has been working on specializationOf/alternateOf and collections, and feels that there is a good convergence of opinions on these topics. When the sections are ready, the WG will be invited to review and raise issues in the usual way. The aim is to have a document ready for internal review on Jan 19th, with a view to vote for release the following week. The editors have identified issues that they wish to close. Issues authors please review proposals, close issues and/or continue discussions by email.

  5. Prov-o/Prov-dm

    During the week, Tim produced a proposal to express accounts in RDF, making use of RDF abstract graphs. Please discuss the proposal by email during the week, we will come back to this topic next week.

15:38:17 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/05-prov-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/05-prov-irc

15:38:19 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

15:38:21 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be

15:38:21 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

15:38:21 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV

Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV

15:38:22 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
15:38:22 <trackbot> Date: 05 January 2012
15:38:22 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 22 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 22 minutes

15:38:38 <Luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.01.05
15:39:00 <Luc> Chair: Luc Moreau
15:39:02 <Luc> Scribe: GK

(Scribe set to Graham Klyne)

15:39:20 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public

15:53:38 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

(No events recorded for 14 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

15:53:45 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

15:54:01 <pgroth> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

Paul Groth: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

15:54:01 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it

15:55:28 <Zakim> +??P56

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P56

15:55:59 <Zakim> + +44.238.059.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.238.059.aaaa

15:56:12 <Luc> zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me

Luc Moreau: zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me

15:56:12 <Zakim> +Luc; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc; got it

15:56:23 <Zakim> +??P58

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P58

15:56:35 <Paolo> zakim, ??P58 is me

Paolo Missier: zakim, ??P58 is me

15:56:35 <Zakim> +Paolo; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Paolo; got it

15:57:00 <Luc> Regrets: Stain
15:57:57 <Zakim> +??P7

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7

15:58:17 <GK> zakim, ??p7 is me

zakim, ??p7 is me

15:58:19 <Zakim> +GK; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +GK; got it

15:59:01 <Luc> scribe: GK
16:01:41 <Luc> topic: Admin

1. Admin

Summary: Minutes of the last teleconference were approved. Please volunteer for scribing!

<Luc>Summary: Minutes of the last teleconference were approved. Please volunteer for scribing!
16:02:22 <Zakim> +??P9

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9

16:02:23 <GK> Previous minutes: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-12-22

Previous minutes: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-12-22

16:02:28 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

16:02:30 <khalidbelhajjame> zakim, ??P9 is me

Khalid Belhajjame: zakim, ??P9 is me

16:02:33 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

16:02:35 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

16:02:38 <Zakim> +??P11

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11

16:02:48 <Zakim> + +1.315.330.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.315.330.aabb

16:02:52 <Zakim> +sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +sandro

16:02:56 <Zakim> +khalidbelhajjame; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +khalidbelhajjame; got it

16:02:58 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it

16:03:00 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:03:01 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

16:03:09 <Luc> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the Dec. 22 telecon

Luc Moreau: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the Dec. 22 telecon

16:03:19 <GK> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-12-22

http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-12-22

16:03:20 <Zakim> +??P29

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P29

16:03:28 <Paolo> +1

Paolo Missier: +1

16:03:32 <tlebo> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1

16:03:32 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1

16:03:33 <GK> +0 (not present)

+0 (not present)

16:03:36 <smiles> 0 (absent)

Simon Miles: 0 (absent)

16:04:00 <JimMcCusker> 0 ( absent)

James McCusker: 0 ( absent)

16:04:13 <Luc> APPROVED  the minutes of the Dec. 22 telecon

Luc Moreau: APPROVED the minutes of the Dec. 22 telecon

16:04:30 <Zakim> +??P33

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P33

16:04:37 <jcheney> zakim, ??p33 is me

James Cheney: zakim, ??p33 is me

16:04:37 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jcheney; got it

16:04:41 <GK> Topic: Disseminating Working Drafts

2. Disseminating Working Drafts

Summary: We discussed ways of advertising and disseminating our working drafts. Paul will draft a blog overviewing all prov-wg documents. Luc will draft a blog explaining changes in prov-dm. Everybody is invited to share documents within their respective communities. The public-prov mailing list will be used for announcement, and the newly created public-prov-dev mailing list will focus on development issues.

<luc> Summary: We discussed ways of advertising and disseminating our working drafts. Paul will draft a blog overviewing all prov-wg documents. Luc will draft a blog explaining changes in prov-dm. Everybody is invited to share documents within their respective communities. The public-prov mailing list will be used for announcement, and the newly created public-prov-dev mailing list will focus on development issues.
16:05:22 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:05:28 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:05:45 <Luc> ack pgr

Luc Moreau: ack pgr

16:06:10 <GK> PaulG: suggest writing up blog post describing how documents sit together...

Paul Groth: suggest writing up blog post describing how documents sit together...

16:06:34 <smiles> q+

Simon Miles: q+

16:06:48 <Luc> ack smi

Luc Moreau: ack smi

16:06:49 <GK> Luc: This could be used as initial draft for document of WG deliverables

Luc Moreau: This could be used as initial draft for document of WG deliverables

16:06:53 <Zakim> +Yolanda

Zakim IRC Bot: +Yolanda

16:06:59 <Zakim> +??P40

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P40

16:07:14 <GK> SimonM: useful for linking to when posting to other mailing lists to solicit feedback.

Simon Miles: useful for linking to when posting to other mailing lists to solicit feedback.

16:07:41 <GK> ... also useful would be standard few lines that can be referenced.

... also useful would be standard few lines that can be referenced.

16:07:56 <GK> ... and direct readers to blog post.

... and direct readers to blog post.

16:08:02 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:08:11 <GK> PaulG: will write this as abstract to blog.

Paul Groth: will write this as abstract to blog.

16:08:29 <Luc> action: pgroth to write blog overviewing prov-wg documents

ACTION: pgroth to write blog overviewing prov-wg documents

16:08:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-50 - Write blog overviewing prov-wg documents [on Paul Groth - due 2012-01-12].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-50 - Write blog overviewing prov-wg documents [on Paul Groth - due 2012-01-12].

16:08:51 <Zakim> + +1.518.633.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.633.aacc

16:09:08 <tlebo> zakim, who is on the phone?

Timothy Lebo: zakim, who is on the phone?

16:09:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, ??P56, Luc, Paolo, GK, khalidbelhajjame, MacTed (muted), ??P11, +1.315.330.aabb, sandro, [IPcaller], ??P29, jcheney, Yolanda, ??P40, +1.518.633.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, ??P56, Luc, Paolo, GK, khalidbelhajjame, MacTed (muted), ??P11, +1.315.330.aabb, sandro, [IPcaller], ??P29, jcheney, Yolanda, ??P40, +1.518.633.aacc

16:09:17 <tlebo> zakim, I am aabb

Timothy Lebo: zakim, I am aabb

16:09:17 <Zakim> +tlebo; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +tlebo; got it

16:09:39 <dgarijo> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

Daniel Garijo: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

16:09:39 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +dgarijo; got it

16:09:44 <GK> Luc: description of difference between 1st and 3rd PROV-DM drafts would be helpful, maybe?

Luc Moreau: description of difference between 1st and 3rd PROV-DM drafts would be helpful, maybe?

16:10:00 <Luc> action: Luc to write blog explaining diffs between prov-dm wd3 and wd1

ACTION: Luc to write blog explaining diffs between prov-dm wd3 and wd1

16:10:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-51 - Write blog explaining diffs between prov-dm wd3 and wd1 [on Luc Moreau - due 2012-01-12].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-51 - Write blog explaining diffs between prov-dm wd3 and wd1 [on Luc Moreau - due 2012-01-12].

16:10:05 <GK> PaulG: suggest Paul does overview, and Luc does difference sum,mary later

Paul Groth: suggest Paul does overview, and Luc does difference sum,mary later

16:10:26 <GK> Luc: Has connection TF lined up reviewers?

Luc Moreau: Has connection TF lined up reviewers?

16:10:32 <JimMcCusker> +q

James McCusker: +q

16:10:40 <Luc> ack Jim

Luc Moreau: ack Jim

16:11:01 <GK> JimMc: Either Satya or I should engaged OBO(?) community

James McCusker: Either Satya or I should engaged OBO(?) community

16:11:11 <Paolo> q+

Paolo Missier: q+

16:11:21 <Luc> ack paolo

Luc Moreau: ack paolo

16:11:24 <GK> ... OBO = Open Bio Ontologies

... OBO = Open Bio Ontologies

16:11:45 <GK> Paolo: meeting on provenance ... (missed details)

Paolo Missier: meeting on provenance ... (missed details)

16:11:51 <JimMcCusker> http://obofoundry.org/

James McCusker: http://obofoundry.org/

16:11:56 <tlebo> @paolo, what meeting?

Timothy Lebo: @paolo, what meeting?

16:12:25 <GK> meeting is Dagshtul seminar at end february

meeting is Dagshtul seminar at end february

16:12:50 <pgroth> I thought I replied james?

Paul Groth: I thought I replied james?

16:12:56 <pgroth> anyway, offline :-)

Paul Groth: anyway, offline :-)

16:13:03 <Luc> you did, and I did too ;-)

Luc Moreau: you did, and I did too ;-)

16:13:18 <pgroth> +q

Paul Groth: +q

16:13:19 <GK> jcheney: still planning schedule for meeting.

James Cheney: still planning schedule for meeting.

16:13:51 <GK> Luc: I was focusing on dissemination in short term - next couple of weeks.

Luc Moreau: I was focusing on dissemination in short term - next couple of weeks.

16:14:11 <pgroth> +1

Paul Groth: +1

16:14:22 <Paolo> Q?

Paolo Missier: Q?

16:14:34 <GK> Luc: can we repeat blog exercise similar to Paul's simple example?  Any takers?

Luc Moreau: can we repeat blog exercise similar to Paul's simple example? Any takers?

16:14:53 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:14:57 <GK> ... more small examples to promote use and purpose of prov-o

... more small examples to promote use and purpose of prov-o

16:15:11 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:15:23 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

16:15:50 <GK> PaulG: we have public provenance mailing list - can we get more people to subscribe?

Paul Groth: we have public provenance mailing list - can we get more people to subscribe?

16:15:55 <Zakim> + +1.760.705.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.760.705.aadd

16:16:05 <tlebo> q+ to ask if we should/can make an announce list?

Timothy Lebo: q+ to ask if we should/can make an announce list?

16:16:24 <Zakim> - +1.760.705.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.760.705.aadd

16:16:29 <pgroth> that's this http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-comments/

Paul Groth: that's this http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-comments/

16:16:55 <GK> Tim: can we have an announcement list

Timothy Lebo: can we have an announcement list

16:17:10 <GK> ??:  agree, and also a developers list?

??: agree, and also a developers list?

16:17:28 <tlebo> zednik ^^

Timothy Lebo: zednik ^^

16:18:40 <Zakim> + +1.760.705.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.760.705.aaee

16:18:56 <GK> Sandro: have WG, public and dev as common pattern (?).  Sometimes, dev list is pretty much unused.

Sandro Hawke: have WG, public and dev as common pattern (?). Sometimes, dev list is pretty much unused.

16:19:36 <sandro> checking ----    public-prov@w3.org exists.    (and prov-wg and prog-comments)

Sandro Hawke: checking ---- public-prov@w3.org exists. (and prov-wg and prog-comments)

16:19:36 <dgarijo> +1 to that, although we started already with the best practices..

Daniel Garijo: +1 to that, although we started already with the best practices..

16:19:48 <GK> Luc: back to asking the prov-o team about blogging examples

Luc Moreau: back to asking the prov-o team about blogging examples

16:20:59 <GK> GK: blogs also work as web pages which are easily linked to, tweeted, etc.

Graham Klyne: blogs also work as web pages which are easily linked to, tweeted, etc.

16:21:03 <satya> Paul, +1

Satya Sahoo: Paul, +1

16:21:26 <GK> Luc: asks sandro if we can create an announce mailing list

Luc Moreau: asks sandro if we can create an announce mailing list

16:21:55 <GK> Sandro: we can, but recommend against unless other public list gets too busy.

Sandro Hawke: we can, but recommend against unless other public list gets too busy.

16:22:11 <pgroth> +q

Paul Groth: +q

16:22:31 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth

16:22:49 <tlebo> +1 public-prov

Timothy Lebo: +1 public-prov

16:22:49 <GK> Sandro: public-prov (not public-prov-wg) could be used for announcements

Sandro Hawke: public-prov (not public-prov-wg) could be used for announcements

16:22:58 <tlebo> (didn't realize we dump onto public-prov-wg)

Timothy Lebo: (didn't realize we dump onto public-prov-wg)

16:23:12 <GK> Luc: can we also have a developer mailing list?

Luc Moreau: can we also have a developer mailing list?

16:24:07 <satya> q+

Satya Sahoo: q+

16:24:19 <GK> Sandro: I'll create a dev list very soon

Sandro Hawke: I'll create a dev list very soon

16:24:24 <tlebo> I'll consider blogging

Timothy Lebo: I'll consider blogging

16:24:27 <Luc> ack tle

Luc Moreau: ack tle

16:24:27 <Zakim> tlebo, you wanted to ask if we should/can make an announce list?

Zakim IRC Bot: tlebo, you wanted to ask if we should/can make an announce list?

16:24:28 <tlebo> q-

Timothy Lebo: q-

16:24:35 <Zakim> - +1.760.705.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.760.705.aaee

16:24:46 <GK> tlebo: I'll consider blogging, would prefer to focus on documents

Timothy Lebo: I'll consider blogging, would prefer to focus on documents

16:24:52 <Luc> ack sat

Luc Moreau: ack sat

16:24:59 <sandro> q+

Sandro Hawke: q+

16:25:33 <JimMcCusker> +q

James McCusker: +q

16:25:36 <satya> sorry lost audio

Satya Sahoo: sorry lost audio

16:26:05 <Luc> ack san

Luc Moreau: ack san

16:26:24 <GK> sandro: public-prov-dev, anyone can post, or only subscribers?

Sandro Hawke: public-prov-dev, anyone can post, or only subscribers?

16:26:35 <Luc> ack jim

Luc Moreau: ack jim

16:26:44 <GK> GK: if spam not a problem, suggest open

Graham Klyne: if spam not a problem, suggest open

16:27:09 <GK> Sandro: I'll make it open.  List now exists.

Sandro Hawke: I'll make it open. List now exists.

16:27:13 <sandro> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-dev/ created

Sandro Hawke: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-dev/ created

16:27:19 <dgarijo> so I guess this is the list where we'll move our prov-o discussions.

Daniel Garijo: so I guess this is the list where we'll move our prov-o discussions.

16:27:32 <GK> Topic: Plan for Second Working Drafts (continued)

3. Plan for Second Working Drafts (continued)

Summary: The editors of the prov-primer and prov-o documents discussed their plan for future working drafts. It was agreed that F2F2 is a good target to aim at, to release new versions of the documents synchronized with the current state of prov-dm.

<luc>Summary: The editors of the prov-primer and prov-o documents discussed their plan for future working drafts. It was agreed that F2F2 is a good target to aim at, to release new versions of the documents synchronized with the current state of prov-dm.
16:28:31 <GK> SimonM: primer - 1st PWD should be out soon. Hopefully next week.

Simon Miles: primer - 1st PWD should be out soon. Hopefully next week.

16:28:44 <GK> ... need to ensure compatibility with other documents.

... need to ensure compatibility with other documents.

16:29:02 <GK> ... aim to have improved version by F2F meeting

... aim to have improved version by F2F meeting

16:29:22 <Zakim> + +1.760.705.aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.760.705.aaff

16:29:34 <GK> ... longer term, next release 6 months with everything up to date, and better content quality

... longer term, next release 6 months with everything up to date, and better content quality

16:30:05 <GK> ... accessible to wide audience, libraries, bloggers, semantic web, etc. can use to get started

... accessible to wide audience, libraries, bloggers, semantic web, etc. can use to get started

16:30:42 <GK> ... be clear what prov-dm means ontologically, how to integrate domain specific with prov-dm

... be clear what prov-dm means ontologically, how to integrate domain specific with prov-dm

16:31:31 <Luc> Can you confirm 6 months? See http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/groups.html#three-month-rule

Luc Moreau: Can you confirm 6 months? See http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/groups.html#three-month-rule

16:31:35 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:31:39 <GK> Yolanda: have lots of comments about assertions and derivations: need to make distinction clear in primer.

Yolanda Gil: have lots of comments about assertions and derivations: need to make distinction clear in primer.

16:32:27 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:32:32 <GK> GK: how do assertions and derivations get captured in RDF?  I don't see it.

Graham Klyne: how do assertions and derivations get captured in RDF? I don't see it.

16:33:07 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:33:19 <GK> Yolanda: need to explain what is meant by these terms on documents.

Yolanda Gil: need to explain what is meant by these terms on documents.

16:33:21 <satya> @Simon, prov-o describes what prov-dm means ontologically - did you mean something in addition to prov-o?

Satya Sahoo: @Simon, prov-o describes what prov-dm means ontologically - did you mean something in addition to prov-o?

16:33:51 <GK> Luc: 6 months is a long time to next release.

Luc Moreau: 6 months is a long time to next release.

16:34:20 <GK> ... also W3C has "3 month rule" for updates to active documents.

... also W3C has "3 month rule" for updates to active documents.

16:34:52 <GK> SimonM: our long term aims were on a 6 month period, but we can make interime releases.

Simon Miles: our long term aims were on a 6 month period, but we can make interime releases.

16:35:18 <sandro> three month rule, fyi: http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/groups#three-month-rule

Sandro Hawke: three month rule, fyi: http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/groups#three-month-rule

16:35:26 <GK> Luc: could you please identify (offline) date for next working draft?

Luc Moreau: could you please identify (offline) date for next working draft?

16:35:27 <Zakim> - +1.760.705.aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.760.705.aaff

16:35:39 <GK> SimonM: OK.  Maybe March/April?

Simon Miles: OK. Maybe March/April?

16:35:57 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:36:12 <GK> Luc: Prov-O - what are your plans?

Luc Moreau: Prov-O - what are your plans?

16:36:20 <Zakim> + +1.760.705.aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.760.705.aagg

16:36:46 <GK> Khalid: need to align prov-o with current prov-dm, other topics not yet considered...

Khalid Belhajjame: need to align prov-o with current prov-dm, other topics not yet considered...

16:37:02 <GK> ... also have not determined next release date

... also have not determined next release date

16:37:33 <GK> ... Stephan will try to identify potential users from those identified by connections TF

... Stephan will try to identify potential users from those identified by connections TF

16:37:53 <GK> Luc: can you please come back with a planned release date.

Luc Moreau: can you please come back with a planned release date.

16:37:56 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:37:59 <dgarijo> we finished half of the list, so hopefully in a couple of telecons we're done with the alignement.

Daniel Garijo: we finished half of the list, so hopefully in a couple of telecons we're done with the alignement.

16:38:09 <Zakim> -Yolanda

Zakim IRC Bot: -Yolanda

16:38:23 <tlebo> satya

Timothy Lebo: satya

16:38:24 <pgroth> can't hear you satya

Paul Groth: can't hear you satya

16:38:26 <dgarijo> @GK Satya

Daniel Garijo: @GK Satya

16:38:47 <pgroth> now

Paul Groth: now

16:38:51 <khalidbelhajjame> we can hear you now

Khalid Belhajjame: we can hear you now

16:39:01 <Luc> the three month rule: a new draft of each active technical report at least once every three months

Luc Moreau: the three month rule: a new draft of each active technical report at least once every three months

16:39:03 <Paolo> @GK satya

Paolo Missier: @GK satya

16:39:28 <satya> We plan to release next pwd by Feb - given the three month rule

Satya Sahoo: We plan to release next pwd by Feb - given the three month rule

16:40:07 <satya> and a major update before 2nd F2F

Satya Sahoo: and a major update before 2nd F2F

16:40:27 <GK> Luc: apart from 3 month rule, would be nice to have stable document by F2F meeting.

Luc Moreau: apart from 3 month rule, would be nice to have stable document by F2F meeting.

16:40:40 <GK> ... doesn't need to be formally released.

... doesn't need to be formally released.

16:40:57 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:40:58 <GK> Khalid: should be fairly closely aligned by F2F meeting

Khalid Belhajjame: should be fairly closely aligned by F2F meeting

16:41:08 <satya> we can discuss this during our call also next Monday

Satya Sahoo: we can discuss this during our call also next Monday

16:41:13 <GK> Topic: prov-dm

4. prov-dm

Summary: Paolo has been working on specializationOf/alternateOf and collections, and feels that there is a good convergence of opinions on these topics. When the sections are ready, the WG will be invited to review and raise issues in the usual way. The aim is to have a document ready for internal review on Jan 19th, with a view to vote for release the following week. The editors have identified issues that they wish to close. Issues authors please review proposals, close issues and/or continue discussions by email.

16:41:17 <satya> sure, I was planning to initiate release process by end of Jan/first week of Feb

Satya Sahoo: sure, I was planning to initiate release process by end of Jan/first week of Feb

16:41:20 <Zakim> - +1.760.705.aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.760.705.aagg

16:41:39 <Luc> @satya, it looks good

Luc Moreau: @satya, it looks good

<luc>Summary: Paolo has been working on specializationOf/alternateOf and collections, and feels that there is a good convergence of opinions on these topics.  When  the sections are ready, the WG will be invited to review and raise issues in the usual way. The aim is to have a document ready for internal review on Jan 19th, with a view to vote for release the following week. The editors have identified issues that they wish to close. Issues authors please review proposals, close issues and/or continue discussions by email.
16:41:39 <GK> Paolo: "complementOf" issue is reaching convergence.

Paolo Missier: "complementOf" issue is reaching convergence.

16:41:47 <Paolo> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html#record-complement-of

Paolo Missier: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html#record-complement-of

16:41:58 <GK> New next is (at link above)

New next is (at link above)

16:42:29 <GK> q+ to say I still need to review the actual text, but agree with the direction of discussions

q+ to say I still need to review the actual text, but agree with the direction of discussions

16:43:07 <Zakim> + +1.760.705.aahh

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.760.705.aahh

16:43:08 <GK> Paolo: the term "compelentOf" is still used, we need to formally agree new terms

Paolo Missier: the term "compelentOf" is still used, we need to formally agree new terms

16:43:34 <Paolo> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html#record-Collection

Paolo Missier: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html#record-Collection

16:43:45 <GK> paolo: collections, has been substantially simplified

Paolo Missier: collections, has been substantially simplified

16:44:13 <GK> ... have long response from Stian to work though, but we do seem to be converging

... have long response from Stian to work though, but we do seem to be converging

16:44:27 <GK> ... hope to finish this successfully (in next week?)

... hope to finish this successfully (in next week?)

16:44:49 <tlebo> +q to ask about global versus local naming in "complementOf" section and rest of document.

Timothy Lebo: +q to ask about global versus local naming in "complementOf" section and rest of document.

16:45:03 <GK> ... issue about whether collections actually belong - discussion on list, along with discussion of what is domain specific.

... issue about whether collections actually belong - discussion on list, along with discussion of what is domain specific.

16:45:48 <tlebo> +1 to how the new specializationOf section looks

Timothy Lebo: +1 to how the new specializationOf section looks

16:46:06 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:46:08 <Luc> ack gk

Luc Moreau: ack gk

16:46:08 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to say I still need to review the actual text, but agree with the direction of discussions

Zakim IRC Bot: GK, you wanted to say I still need to review the actual text, but agree with the direction of discussions

16:46:26 <GK> Tim: specialization section looks great

Timothy Lebo: specialization section looks great

16:46:46 <Zakim> - +1.760.705.aahh

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.760.705.aahh

16:46:46 <GK> ... have problem with distinction between global and local naming

... have problem with distinction between global and local naming

16:47:15 <GK> ... think this is "very dissonant" (something that needs to be discussed?)

... think this is "very dissonant" (something that needs to be discussed?)

16:47:33 <Zakim> + +1.760.705.aaii

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.760.705.aaii

16:47:45 <GK> Luc: there is a specific issue addressing this.

Luc Moreau: there is a specific issue addressing this.

16:49:08 <tlebo> q-

Timothy Lebo: q-

16:49:45 <GK> Luc: about vote about new terminology; granularity is too coarse (?)

Luc Moreau: about vote about new terminology; granularity is too coarse (?)

16:50:17 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:50:26 <GK> q+ to ask why can't vote on the text as-is, or alternatively vote on choice of terminology, or...

q+ to ask why can't vote on the text as-is, or alternatively vote on choice of terminology, or...

16:50:38 <pgroth>  q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:50:48 <satya> +1, I think we need to discuss over raised issue first

Satya Sahoo: +1, I think we need to discuss over raised issue first

16:50:49 <tlebo> I'm happy to close any issues that I've raised for complementOf

Timothy Lebo: I'm happy to close any issues that I've raised for complementOf

16:50:50 <Luc> ack gk

Luc Moreau: ack gk

16:50:50 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to ask why can't vote on the text as-is, or alternatively vote on choice of terminology, or...

Zakim IRC Bot: GK, you wanted to ask why can't vote on the text as-is, or alternatively vote on choice of terminology, or...

16:50:59 <JimMcCusker> +q

James McCusker: +q

16:51:30 <Luc> ack pgr

Luc Moreau: ack pgr

16:51:39 <Zakim> - +1.760.705.aaii

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.760.705.aaii

16:51:47 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth

16:51:49 <GK> GK: only need to vote if there is disagreement

Graham Klyne: only need to vote if there is disagreement

16:52:04 <GK> paulG: issue system seems to work well

Paul Groth: issue system seems to work well

16:52:56 <GK> jimMc: issue of one entity record for each identifier.  And if identifier is URI, can't enforce scoping of interpretation.

James McCusker: issue of one entity record for each identifier. And if identifier is URI, can't enforce scoping of interpretation.

16:53:00 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:53:03 <Luc> ack jim

Luc Moreau: ack jim

16:53:48 <Luc> closing issues Closed pending review: ISSUE-50: Satya ISSUE-57: Graham ISSUE-100: Satya ISSUE-105: Satya ISSUE-113: Khalid ISSUE-121: Satya ISSUE-124: Satya ISSUE-125: Satya ISSUE-126: Satya ISSUE-127: Satya ISSUE-176: Tim ISSUE-178: Tim ISSUE-191: Satya ISSUE-201: Satya To be answered: ISSUE-185: Satya ISSUE-186: Satya ISSUE-187: Satya ISSUE-188: Satya ISSUE-189: Satya ISSUE-192: Satya ISSUE-193: Satya ISSUE-200: Satya [edit]

Luc Moreau: closing issues Closed pending review: ISSUE-50: Satya ISSUE-57: Graham ISSUE-100: Satya ISSUE-105: Satya ISSUE-113: Khalid ISSUE-121: Satya ISSUE-124: Satya ISSUE-125: Satya ISSUE-126: Satya ISSUE-127: Satya ISSUE-176: Tim ISSUE-178: Tim ISSUE-191: Satya ISSUE-201: Satya To be answered: ISSUE-185: Satya ISSUE-186: Satya ISSUE-187: Satya ISSUE-188: Satya ISSUE-189: Satya ISSUE-192: Satya ISSUE-193: Satya ISSUE-200: Satya [edit]

16:53:54 <Zakim> + +1.760.705.aajj

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.760.705.aajj

16:54:02 <GK> Luc: aiming for release by end of month

Luc Moreau: aiming for release by end of month

16:54:04 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.01.05#prov-dm

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.01.05#prov-dm

16:54:26 <satya> @jimMc, +1

Satya Sahoo: @jimMc, +1

16:55:09 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:55:20 <tlebo> +1 I'll review my issues

Timothy Lebo: +1 I'll review my issues

16:55:21 <GK> Luc: need people to raised issues to respond to confirm issues can be closed.  Would be better to close old issues and open new ones.

Luc Moreau: need people to raised issues to respond to confirm issues can be closed. Would be better to close old issues and open new ones.

16:55:25 <satya> @Luc, sure will try to review and respond asap the outstanding issues

Satya Sahoo: @Luc, sure will try to review and respond asap the outstanding issues

16:56:17 <GK> GK: happy to close issue 57, will raise new if I have problem with new text

Graham Klyne: happy to close ISSUE-57, will raise new if I have problem with new text

16:56:32 <tlebo> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Using_graphs_to_model_Accounts

Timothy Lebo: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Using_graphs_to_model_Accounts

16:56:40 <GK> Topic: Prov-o/Prov-dm

5. Prov-o/Prov-dm

Summary: During the week, Tim produced a proposal to express accounts in RDF, making use of RDF abstract graphs. Please discuss the proposal by email during the week, we will come back to this topic next week.

<luc>Summary: During the week, Tim produced a proposal to express accounts in RDF, making use of RDF abstract graphs.  Please discuss the proposal by email during the week, we will come back to this topic next week.
16:56:51 <GK> Discussion of accounts

Discussion of accounts

16:58:11 <Zakim> - +1.760.705.aajj

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.760.705.aajj

16:58:20 <GK> Tim: proposing that account assertions are "RDF abstract graph" - set of triples independent of location.  Tryimng to core construct of activity to associate asserter with account graph.  Then addressing association of abstract graph with where it rests.

Timothy Lebo: proposing that account assertions are "RDF abstract graph" - set of triples independent of location. Tryimng to core construct of activity to associate asserter with account graph. Then addressing association of abstract graph with where it rests.

16:59:24 <GK> ... triple store organization of named graphs is "chaotic" - can re-use service description vocabulary.

... triple store organization of named graphs is "chaotic" - can re-use service description vocabulary.

16:59:47 <GK> q+

q+

16:59:56 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:59:59 <Luc> ack GK

Luc Moreau: ack GK

17:00:07 <dgarijo> q+

Daniel Garijo: q+

17:00:59 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

17:01:38 <GK> GK: my comments (on list) really reeferring to *assertion* of an account, rather than problem of account being an "abstract graph".

Graham Klyne: my comments (on list) really reeferring to *assertion* of an account, rather than problem of account being an "abstract graph".

17:01:41 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth

17:02:08 <GK> PaulG: question about typing of graph (missed details of response)

Paul Groth: question about typing of graph (missed details of response)

17:02:20 <tlebo> +1 to confusion over Activyt versus Entity - partiatlly b/c I'm not sure yet :-)

Timothy Lebo: +1 to confusion over Activyt versus Entity - partiatlly b/c I'm not sure yet :-)

17:02:32 <GK> DanielG: account as activity or entity?  Gets confusing.

Daniel Garijo: account as activity or entity? Gets confusing.

17:03:00 <GK> ... distinguishes between account as wrapper, and activity that creates that wrapper.

... distinguishes between account as wrapper, and activity that creates that wrapper.

17:03:27 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

17:03:31 <Luc> ack dga

Luc Moreau: ack dga

17:04:14 <GK> Tim: yes, there is some confusion, indecision yet.  Details still to be worked out (wasAtributedTo property mentioned?)

Timothy Lebo: yes, there is some confusion, indecision yet. Details still to be worked out (wasAtributedTo property mentioned?)

17:04:48 <GK> Tim: still want to quality association with some activity (e.g. similar to derivedfrom?)

Timothy Lebo: still want to quality association with some activity (e.g. similar to derivedfrom?)

17:04:57 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

17:05:48 <GK> Luc: have raised issue of mixing accounts and entities.

Luc Moreau: have raised issue of mixing accounts and entities.

17:05:54 <dgarijo> @Tim: anyway, this is the kind of discussion we needed to make this work. Thanks!

Daniel Garijo: @Tim: anyway, this is the kind of discussion we needed to make this work. Thanks!

17:06:53 <GK> q+

q+

17:07:29 <GK> q+ to ask about what "abstract graph" is used to mean

q+ to ask about what "abstract graph" is used to mean

17:07:44 <Luc> ack gk

Luc Moreau: ack gk

17:07:44 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to ask about what "abstract graph" is used to mean

Zakim IRC Bot: GK, you wanted to ask about what "abstract graph" is used to mean

17:07:55 <Zakim> -??P29

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P29

17:08:01 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

17:08:45 <GK> Tim: terms we have are graph container, RDF abstract graph, and ...

Timothy Lebo: terms we have are graph container, RDF abstract graph, and ...

17:09:21 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

17:09:34 <GK> SPARQL service description associates a graph with a name

SPARQL service description associates a graph with a name

17:09:53 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

17:10:17 <GK> (sorry, my audio got interrupted)

(sorry, my audio got interrupted)

17:10:46 <pgroth> thanks tim!

Paul Groth: thanks tim!

17:10:56 <tlebo> thanks for feedback!

Timothy Lebo: thanks for feedback!

17:11:06 <dgarijo> :)

Daniel Garijo: :)

17:11:18 <GK> Luc: wrapping up

Luc Moreau: wrapping up

17:11:21 <Zakim> -tlebo

Zakim IRC Bot: -tlebo

17:11:21 <GK> Ends.

Ends.

17:11:22 <Zakim> -??P11

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P11

17:11:23 <Zakim> -dgarijo

Zakim IRC Bot: -dgarijo

17:11:27 <Zakim> -jcheney

Zakim IRC Bot: -jcheney

17:11:29 <Zakim> -sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -sandro

17:11:31 <Zakim> -khalidbelhajjame

Zakim IRC Bot: -khalidbelhajjame

17:11:35 <Zakim> -Paolo

Zakim IRC Bot: -Paolo

17:11:39 <Zakim> -MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed

17:11:41 <Zakim> -Luc

Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc

17:11:43 <Zakim> -pgroth

Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth

17:11:45 <Zakim> -GK

Zakim IRC Bot: -GK

17:11:47 <Zakim> - +1.518.633.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.518.633.aacc

17:12:43 <Zakim> -??P40

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P40

17:35:01 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, ??P56, in SW_(PROV)11:00AM

(No events recorded for 22 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: disconnecting the lone participant, ??P56, in SW_(PROV)11:00AM

17:35:05 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended

17:35:07 <Zakim> Attendees were pgroth, Luc, Paolo, GK, +1.315.330.aabb, sandro, khalidbelhajjame, MacTed, jcheney, Yolanda, +1.518.633.aacc, tlebo, dgarijo, +1.760.705.aadd, +1.760.705.aaee,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were pgroth, Luc, Paolo, GK, +1.315.330.aabb, sandro, khalidbelhajjame, MacTed, jcheney, Yolanda, +1.518.633.aacc, tlebo, dgarijo, +1.760.705.aadd, +1.760.705.aaee,

17:35:10 <Zakim> ... +1.760.705.aaff, +1.760.705.aagg, +1.760.705.aahh, +1.760.705.aaii, +1.760.705.aajj

Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.760.705.aaff, +1.760.705.aagg, +1.760.705.aahh, +1.760.705.aaii, +1.760.705.aajj



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