The PROV-O is almost ready to go to FPWD. However, it still needs some synchronization on how to represent edge attributes from the PROV-DM. Also, it was felt that a review for clarity was in order.
Relation between PROV-DM and PROV-O
Discussion on how to ensure that the PROV-DM and PROV-O stay in sync. It was felt that this could be resolved through examples. PROV-O subgroup will try to come up with consensus on to represent PROV-DM annotations on edges at their next telecon.
Two proposals for simplification were discussed. Both proposals were accepted after the clarification that they were not changing existing terminology but aligning terminology through out the document
Many sections are completed. Paolo has been checking that examples used are consistent with the conceptual model.
Discussed having one repository for all examples. Suggestion was to have one mercurial repository for all examples with brief description of each. It should leverage Tim Lebo's and the Primers current example sets. Chairs to follow-up with the approach for creating this.
14:48:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/10/27-prov-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/10/27-prov-irc ←
14:48:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:48:34 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be ←
14:48:34 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot ←
14:48:35 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:48:35 <trackbot> Date: 27 October 2011
14:48:43 <pgroth> Zakim, this will be PROV
Paul Groth: Zakim, this will be PROV ←
14:48:43 <Zakim> ok, pgroth; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, pgroth; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes ←
14:48:57 <pgroth> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.10.27
14:49:11 <pgroth> Chair: Paul Groth
14:49:44 <pgroth> Regrets: James Cheney, Christine Runnegar
14:50:00 <pgroth> rrsagent, make logs public
Paul Groth: rrsagent, make logs public ←
14:55:03 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started ←
14:55:09 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:55:33 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes
Zakim IRC Bot: +Curt_Tilmes ←
14:55:59 <pgroth> can I get a scribe?
Paul Groth: can I get a scribe? ←
14:56:26 <Curt> I'll do it
Curt Tilmes: I'll do it ←
14:57:07 <pgroth> thanks curt
Paul Groth: thanks curt ←
14:57:16 <pgroth> Scribe: Curt_Tilmes
(Scribe set to Curt Tilmes)
14:57:35 <pgroth> Scribe: Curt
14:58:16 <Zakim> +Yogesh_Simmhan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Yogesh_Simmhan ←
14:59:17 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a] ←
14:59:31 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
14:59:35 <dgarijo> Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
Daniel Garijo: Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me ←
14:59:35 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +dgarijo; got it ←
14:59:38 <Zakim> +??P44
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P44 ←
14:59:57 <smiles> zakim, ??P44 is me
Simon Miles: zakim, ??P44 is me ←
14:59:57 <Zakim> +smiles; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +smiles; got it ←
14:59:59 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo
Zakim IRC Bot: +Satya_Sahoo ←
15:00:02 <Zakim> +??P54
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P54 ←
15:01:20 <pgroth> Topic: Admin
15:01:28 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.10.27
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.10.27 ←
15:01:34 <pgroth> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of Oct 20 telecon
Paul Groth: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of Oct 20 telecon ←
15:01:35 <dgarijo> +1
Daniel Garijo: +1 ←
15:01:38 <Curt> +1
+1 ←
15:01:38 <Yogesh> +1
Yogesh Simmhan: +1 ←
15:01:42 <satya> +1
Satya Sahoo: +1 ←
15:01:48 <SamCoppens> +1
Sam Coppens: +1 ←
15:02:06 <pgroth> ACCEPTED Minutes of last week
Paul Groth: ACCEPTED Minutes of last week ←
15:02:34 <Curt> pgroth: 1 action, being updated, to be discussed later
Paul Groth: 1 action, being updated, to be discussed later ←
15:02:39 <Curt> ... need scribes
... need scribes ←
15:02:51 <pgroth> Topic: PROV-O
Summary: The PROV-O is almost ready to go to FPWD. However, it still needs some synchronization on how to represent edge attributes from the PROV-DM. Also, it was felt that a review for clarity was in order.
<pgroth> Summary: The PROV-O is almost ready to go to FPWD. However, it still needs some synchronization on how to represent edge attributes from the PROV-DM. Also, it was felt that a review for clarity was in order.
15:02:55 <Zakim> +SamCoppens
Zakim IRC Bot: +SamCoppens ←
15:03:31 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a] ←
15:03:41 <Curt> satya: covered new stuff, including new extensions previously discussed
Satya Sahoo: covered new stuff, including new extensions previously discussed ←
15:03:53 <dgarijo> we've also included examples to all the properties that didn't had them
Daniel Garijo: we've also included examples to all the properties that didn't had them ←
15:04:00 <Curt> ... new examples: usage of time
... new examples: usage of time ←
15:04:09 <Curt> ... no roadblocks to moving to release draft
... no roadblocks to moving to release draft ←
15:04:21 <Curt> ... need to proof-read end-to-end
... need to proof-read end-to-end ←
15:04:39 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:04:39 <Curt> ... a lot of changes, but content is largely in there now
... a lot of changes, but content is largely in there now ←
15:04:42 <Zakim> + +1.518.633.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.633.aaaa ←
15:04:47 <dgarijo> +q
Daniel Garijo: +q ←
15:04:55 <pgroth> ack dgarijo
Paul Groth: ack dgarijo ←
15:05:36 <Curt> dgarijo: content is there, but need to determine approach to modeling
Daniel Garijo: content is there, but need to determine approach to modeling ←
15:05:37 <khalidbelhajjame> Daniel is talking about EntityInRole
Khalid Belhajjame: Daniel is talking about EntityInRole ←
15:06:03 <Curt> ... How will EntityInRole be handled
... How will EntityInRole be handled ←
15:06:21 <khalidbelhajjame> +q
Khalid Belhajjame: +q ←
15:06:28 <Zakim> +Yolanda
Zakim IRC Bot: +Yolanda ←
15:06:30 <khalidbelhajjame> -q
Khalid Belhajjame: -q ←
15:06:30 <Curt> pgroth: Is there a consensus on that in the working group?
Paul Groth: Is there a consensus on that in the working group? ←
15:06:45 <pgroth> in the prov-o working group
Paul Groth: in the prov-o working group ←
15:07:03 <Curt> khalidbelhajjame: we haven't had a specific discussion on that in the working group yet
Khalid Belhajjame: we haven't had a specific discussion on that in the working group yet ←
15:07:21 <Curt> ... There are a number of issues on mapping the models to one another
... There are a number of issues on mapping the models to one another ←
15:07:37 <Zakim> +??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10 ←
15:07:43 <khalidbelhajjame> +q
Khalid Belhajjame: +q ←
15:07:44 <Curt> ... discussions continue, there will be modifications. We really need to be sure there are no show stoppers
... discussions continue, there will be modifications. We really need to be sure there are no show stoppers ←
15:07:48 <dgarijo> -q
Daniel Garijo: -q ←
15:07:50 <pgroth> ack khalidbelhajjame
Paul Groth: ack khalidbelhajjame ←
15:08:27 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.aa]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.aa] ←
15:08:44 <Luc> zakim, [IPcaller.aa] is me
Luc Moreau: zakim, [IPcaller.aa] is me ←
15:08:44 <Zakim> +Luc; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc; got it ←
15:09:01 <dgarijo> @Khalid: +1
Daniel Garijo: @Khalid: +1 ←
15:09:02 <satya> @Daniel and Khalid +1
Satya Sahoo: @Daniel and Khalid +1 ←
15:09:10 <Curt> khalidbelhajjame: people in the working group working on it,
Khalid Belhajjame: people in the working group working on it, ←
15:09:22 <Curt> pgroth: can this be resolved quickly?
Paul Groth: can this be resolved quickly? ←
15:09:50 <khalidbelhajjame> Paul, the answer to your question IMO is yes
Khalid Belhajjame: Paul, the answer to your question IMO is yes ←
15:09:51 <satya> q+
Satya Sahoo: q+ ←
15:09:57 <pgroth> ack satya
Paul Groth: ack satya ←
15:10:07 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.aa]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.aa] ←
15:10:26 <dgarijo> Both approaches are clear. Both have advantages and disadvantages. We just have to go for one, and stick to it.
Daniel Garijo: Both approaches are clear. Both have advantages and disadvantages. We just have to go for one, and stick to it. ←
15:10:27 <Curt> satya: basic issue is data model from Luc and Paolo. We are trying to model a language
Satya Sahoo: basic issue is data model from Luc and Paolo. We are trying to model a language ←
15:10:47 <Curt> ... it is hard to get a perfect one-to-one mapping
... it is hard to get a perfect one-to-one mapping ←
15:10:55 <dgarijo> what imo is not the right approach is have the same discussion every two or 3 months.
Daniel Garijo: what imo is not the right approach is have the same discussion every two or 3 months. ←
15:10:56 <Curt> ... Especially with something like OWL
... Especially with something like OWL ←
15:11:23 <Curt> ... e.g. what is the difference between annotation and attribution?
... e.g. what is the difference between annotation and attribution? ←
15:11:27 <pgroth> don't they have different names?
Paul Groth: don't they have different names? ←
15:11:37 <Curt> ... We need some buy-in to move from ASN to OWL
... We need some buy-in to move from ASN to OWL ←
15:11:59 <Curt> ... what does it mean for provenance? Are we losing something with this mapping to the data model
... what does it mean for provenance? Are we losing something with this mapping to the data model ←
15:12:08 <Curt> ... There can't be a perfect mappign
... There can't be a perfect mappign ←
15:12:12 <dgarijo> @pgroth: some people argued that summaryOf, for instance, was very domain-specific.
Daniel Garijo: @pgroth: some people argued that summaryOf, for instance, was very domain-specific. ←
15:12:22 <Luc> satya, are you sayiing interoperability is impossible????
Luc Moreau: satya, are you sayiing interoperability is impossible???? ←
15:12:26 <pgroth> Topic: Relation between PROV-DM and PROV-O
Summary: Discussion on how to ensure that the PROV-DM and PROV-O stay in sync. It was felt that this could be resolved through examples. PROV-O subgroup will try to come up with consensus on to represent PROV-DM annotations on edges at their next telecon.
<pgroth> Summary: Discussion on how to ensure that the PROV-DM and PROV-O stay in sync. It was felt that this could be resolved through examples. PROV-O subgroup will try to come up with consensus on to represent PROV-DM annotations on edges at their next telecon.
15:12:43 <pgroth> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Oct/0185.html
Paul Groth: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Oct/0185.html ←
15:13:08 <Curt> pgroth: how do we resolve mapping between models?
Paul Groth: how do we resolve mapping between models? ←
15:13:17 <pgroth> +q
Paul Groth: +q ←
15:13:19 <Curt> ... There may be a mismatch. What process should we adopt?
... There may be a mismatch. What process should we adopt? ←
15:13:20 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:13:23 <pgroth> ack pgroth
Paul Groth: ack pgroth ←
15:13:25 <satya> @Luc: no Luc, the interoperabilty is the aim of the the whole Semantic Web technology stack - hence by using RDF and OWL we are facilitating interoperability
Satya Sahoo: @Luc: no Luc, the interoperabilty is the aim of the the whole Semantic Web technology stack - hence by using RDF and OWL we are facilitating interoperability ←
15:13:37 <Luc> i can hear
Luc Moreau: i can hear ←
15:14:36 <Curt> luc: khalid indicated there was an outline of a solution to address this
Luc Moreau: khalid indicated there was an outline of a solution to address this ←
15:15:06 <khalidbelhajjame> +q
Khalid Belhajjame: +q ←
15:15:12 <dgarijo> +q
Daniel Garijo: +q ←
15:15:14 <pgroth> ack khalidbelhajjame
Paul Groth: ack khalidbelhajjame ←
15:15:15 <dgarijo> -q
Daniel Garijo: -q ←
15:15:17 <Curt> ... not sure if agreement was reached
... not sure if agreement was reached ←
15:15:18 <satya> @Luc, so if we are talking about interoperability of PROV-DM and PROV-O it will require us to understand how both the ASN and RDF, OWL relate
Satya Sahoo: @Luc, so if we are talking about interoperability of PROV-DM and PROV-O it will require us to understand how both the ASN and RDF, OWL relate ←
15:15:33 <Curt> khalidbelhajjame: Not everyone responded to proposal
Khalid Belhajjame: Not everyone responded to proposal ←
15:15:43 <stain> had to put the baby to sleep
Stian Soiland-Reyes: had to put the baby to sleep ←
15:16:07 <Curt> ... By adding shortcut properties, we can connect entities to handle this
... By adding shortcut properties, we can connect entities to handle this ←
15:16:16 <Luc> @kahlid, this looks good to me
Luc Moreau: @kahlid, this looks good to me ←
15:16:17 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:16:18 <Curt> ... we are still discussing this
... we are still discussing this ←
15:16:27 <Curt> ... topic for next monday's telecon
... topic for next monday's telecon ←
15:16:40 <dgarijo> +q
Daniel Garijo: +q ←
15:16:44 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
15:16:46 <Zakim> +stain
Zakim IRC Bot: +stain ←
15:16:52 <Luc> we lost you , paul
Luc Moreau: we lost you , paul ←
15:16:58 <satya> Paul we lost you
Satya Sahoo: Paul we lost you ←
15:17:49 <Curt> stain: we had this discussion and chose the current approach
Stian Soiland-Reyes: we had this discussion and chose the current approach ←
15:18:16 <Curt> (sorry daniel, not stain)
(sorry daniel, not stain) ←
15:18:16 <khalidbelhajjame> @Daniel +1
Khalid Belhajjame: @Daniel +1 ←
15:18:53 <Curt> luc: Need to decide and formalize the result and take that into account
Luc Moreau: Need to decide and formalize the result and take that into account ←
15:19:03 <Curt> ... the current approach isn't good enough
... the current approach isn't good enough ←
15:19:16 <satya> @Daniel +1
Satya Sahoo: @Daniel +1 ←
15:19:50 <stain> (what is it we are talking about now, provo at all or something else?)
Stian Soiland-Reyes: (what is it we are talking about now, provo at all or something else?) ←
15:19:53 <Curt> luc: we could release the draft, but it really has problems, it doesn't match the model
Luc Moreau: we could release the draft, but it really has problems, it doesn't match the model ←
15:20:07 <khalidbelhajjame> Stian, we are talking about Prov-o
Khalid Belhajjame: Stian, we are talking about Prov-o ←
15:20:11 <Curt> ... we must introduce entities to make it match
... we must introduce entities to make it match ←
15:20:12 <khalidbelhajjame> and EntityInRole
Khalid Belhajjame: and EntityInRole ←
15:20:15 <stain> ah\
Stian Soiland-Reyes: ah\ ←
15:20:35 <satya> @Luc, I guess what Daniel is saying that we use examples to demonstrate how one or the other approach does not work
Satya Sahoo: @Luc, I guess what Daniel is saying that we use examples to demonstrate how one or the other approach does not work ←
15:20:38 <stain> what was that good name that was suggested as an alternative by Jim (I think)
Stian Soiland-Reyes: what was that good name that was suggested as an alternative by Jim (I think) ←
15:20:40 <Curt> dgarijo: we can try to address that, but we need consensus on how to address it
Daniel Garijo: we can try to address that, but we need consensus on how to address it ←
15:20:53 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:20:58 <Luc> ack luc
Luc Moreau: ack luc ←
15:21:01 <Luc> ack dga
Luc Moreau: ack dga ←
15:21:08 <Curt> luc: there are other variants around OPM-O, there should be a way to handle it
Luc Moreau: there are other variants around OPM-O, there should be a way to handle it ←
15:21:28 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:21:30 <Curt> luc: it would be nice to contrast the two approaches with examples
Luc Moreau: it would be nice to contrast the two approaches with examples ←
15:21:31 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:21:34 <Luc> ack luc
Luc Moreau: ack luc ←
15:21:34 <stain> +1 to try the different approaches with examples
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 to try the different approaches with examples ←
15:21:44 <stain> the same for prov-dm
Stian Soiland-Reyes: the same for prov-dm ←
15:21:58 <satya> @Luc, from my perspective creating named classes for properties does not work in OWL, RDF
Satya Sahoo: @Luc, from my perspective creating named classes for properties does not work in OWL, RDF ←
15:22:01 <Curt> luc: can you formulate examples contrasting the approaches?
Luc Moreau: can you formulate examples contrasting the approaches? ←
15:22:31 <dgarijo> currently, all the examples are using the incorrect approach.
Daniel Garijo: currently, all the examples are using the incorrect approach. ←
15:22:42 <smiles> @Luc, next agenda item is Prov-DM and the two proposals you put on the mailing list (regarding entity, process execution)
Simon Miles: @Luc, next agenda item is Prov-DM and the two proposals you put on the mailing list (regarding entity, process execution) ←
15:23:07 <Curt> Can Paul and Luc join next working group telecon to help resolve approach?
Can Paul and Luc join next working group telecon to help resolve approach? ←
15:23:29 <khalidbelhajjame> +q
Khalid Belhajjame: +q ←
15:23:39 <Curt> satya: there are issues trying to model. You need extra propertities to link the entities
Satya Sahoo: there are issues trying to model. You need extra propertities to link the entities ←
15:23:46 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:24:04 <Curt> ... This will introduce addition blank nodes, they make it hard to transfer between applications
... This will introduce addition blank nodes, they make it hard to transfer between applications ←
15:24:07 <pgroth> +[IPcaller] is me
Paul Groth: +[IPcaller] is me ←
15:24:08 <dgarijo> @Satya: they don't have to be blank nodes!
Daniel Garijo: @Satya: they don't have to be blank nodes! ←
15:24:16 <pgroth> Zakim, +[IPcaller] is me
Paul Groth: Zakim, +[IPcaller] is me ←
15:24:16 <Zakim> sorry, pgroth, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, pgroth, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]' ←
15:24:18 <Curt> ... there isn't a good way to transfer the RDF blank nodes
... there isn't a good way to transfer the RDF blank nodes ←
15:24:36 <dgarijo> they have to be unique instances of the properties, just like the unique instances of EntityInRole.
Daniel Garijo: they have to be unique instances of the properties, just like the unique instances of EntityInRole. ←
15:24:43 <pgroth> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
Paul Groth: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me ←
15:24:44 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it ←
15:24:52 <dgarijo> in fact, the approaches are very similar (in essence)
Daniel Garijo: in fact, the approaches are very similar (in essence) ←
15:24:53 <Curt> ... there are practical reasons why the biomedical community has gone to using roles
... there are practical reasons why the biomedical community has gone to using roles ←
15:25:06 <Curt> ... and have a different way of modeling some things
... and have a different way of modeling some things ←
15:25:20 <Zakim> -pgroth
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth ←
15:25:20 <sandro> @Satya FYI the RDF WG has decided on a standard way to do Skolemization, although it's still just in a Working Draft. not sure that helps much with this problem.
Sandro Hawke: @Satya FYI the RDF WG has decided on a standard way to do Skolemization, although it's still just in a Working Draft. not sure that helps much with this problem. ←
15:25:23 <Curt> ... the simple approach runs into problems others in the SW community have already run into
... the simple approach runs into problems others in the SW community have already run into ←
15:25:24 <Lena> on blank nodes: http://axel.deri.ie/publications/mall-etal-2011ISWC.pdf
Helena Deus: on blank nodes: http://axel.deri.ie/publications/mall-etal-2011ISWC.pdf ←
15:25:42 <Lena> (paper nominated for best paper award as ISWC 2011)
Helena Deus: (paper nominated for best paper award as ISWC 2011) ←
15:25:48 <Curt> Luc: Maybe that problem doesn't actually hit us, let's look at examples
Luc Moreau: Maybe that problem doesn't actually hit us, let's look at examples ←
15:25:49 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:25:51 <stain> you can name any node, obviously.
Stian Soiland-Reyes: you can name any node, obviously. ←
15:26:00 <Luc> ack khal
Luc Moreau: ack khal ←
15:26:01 <dgarijo> they cab be blank nodes, but they don't necessarily have to.
Daniel Garijo: they cab be blank nodes, but they don't necessarily have to. ←
15:26:26 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:26:30 <Curt> khalidbelhajjame: In our context, we won't have that problem, we have some shortcuts
Khalid Belhajjame: In our context, we won't have that problem, we have some shortcuts ←
15:26:40 <Curt> ... that can link the constructs.
... that can link the constructs. ←
15:26:47 <Luc> i hope to be able to join you on Monday
Luc Moreau: i hope to be able to join you on Monday ←
15:26:52 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:26:53 <dgarijo> +q
Daniel Garijo: +q ←
15:26:54 <Curt> ... we won't have the drawbacks that others have run into
... we won't have the drawbacks that others have run into ←
15:27:00 <satya> @Daniel: In OWL, RDF, there is a single URI for properties (both object and datatype) - so a property does not have instances as OWL classes
Satya Sahoo: @Daniel: In OWL, RDF, there is a single URI for properties (both object and datatype) - so a property does not have instances as OWL classes ←
15:27:01 <Curt> ... we will discuss at monday's telecon
... we will discuss at monday's telecon ←
15:27:10 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:27:26 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:27:36 <Luc> ack dga
Luc Moreau: ack dga ←
15:27:41 <Curt> dgarijo: If there are n-ary relationships, there isn't a good solution. The current approach is confusing.
Daniel Garijo: If there are n-ary relationships, there isn't a good solution. The current approach is confusing. ←
15:28:00 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:28:01 <Curt> Luc: We will have to resolve this and make a decision.
Luc Moreau: We will have to resolve this and make a decision. ←
15:28:18 <Curt> Topic: PROV-DM
Summary: Two proposals for simplification were discussed. Both proposals were accepted after the clarification that they were not changing existing terminology but aligning terminology through out the document
<pgroth> Summary: Two proposals for simplification were discussed. Both proposals were accepted after the clarification that they were not changing existing terminology but aligning terminology through out the document
15:28:36 <dgarijo> @Satya: but n-ary relationships are a well known ontology pattern too.
Daniel Garijo: @Satya: but n-ary relationships are a well known ontology pattern too. ←
15:28:40 <satya> @Daniel, so I am not sure I understand your point
Satya Sahoo: @Daniel, so I am not sure I understand your point ←
15:28:53 <Curt> Luc: On monday we will discuss examples of two approaches and converge toward solution.
Luc Moreau: On monday we will discuss examples of two approaches and converge toward solution. ←
15:29:10 <satya> @Daniel, can you give examples of ontologies that use n-ary properties modeled as classes?
Satya Sahoo: @Daniel, can you give examples of ontologies that use n-ary properties modeled as classes? ←
15:29:18 <pgroth> sorry everyone
Paul Groth: sorry everyone ←
15:29:20 <Curt> Luc: Two proposals were floated on mailing list
Luc Moreau: Two proposals were floated on mailing list ←
15:29:23 <Luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Oct/0195.html
Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Oct/0195.html ←
15:29:40 <stain> the problem is often finding a good name for the n-ary class, we've got Generation, Use and Control, which is not too bad
Stian Soiland-Reyes: the problem is often finding a good name for the n-ary class, we've got Generation, Use and Control, which is not too bad ←
15:29:45 <stain> they are of course no longer properties
Stian Soiland-Reyes: they are of course no longer properties ←
15:29:52 <stain> just n-ary relationship
Stian Soiland-Reyes: just n-ary relationship ←
15:29:55 <satya> @Sandro thanks! I will read the RDF Working Draft
Satya Sahoo: @Sandro thanks! I will read the RDF Working Draft ←
15:29:58 <dgarijo> @Satya: people are complaining because the current approach is hard to follow. And basically, EntityInRole is a "trick" to avoidintroducing the classes. I like the approach because it's simpler
Daniel Garijo: @Satya: people are complaining because the current approach is hard to follow. And basically, EntityInRole is a "trick" to avoidintroducing the classes. I like the approach because it's simpler ←
15:30:04 <Curt> Luc: A number of votes on proposals
Luc Moreau: A number of votes on proposals ←
15:30:09 <dgarijo> (I mean, the current approach)
Daniel Garijo: (I mean, the current approach) ←
15:30:13 <Curt> Luc: overwhelming support for first proposal
Luc Moreau: overwhelming support for first proposal ←
15:30:39 <Luc> PROPOSED: in section 2.1 [1], to define an entity as an identifiable characterized thing.
PROPOSED: in section 2.1 [1], to define an entity as an identifiable characterized thing. ←
15:30:41 <dgarijo> @Satya: One example: OPMO :P
Daniel Garijo: @Satya: One example: OPMO :P ←
15:30:55 <Luc> ACCEPTED: in section 2.1 [1], to define an entity as an identifiable characterized thing.
RESOLVED: in section 2.1 [1], to define an entity as an identifiable characterized thing. ←
15:31:12 <Luc> PROPOSED: to rename 'process execution' by 'activity'
PROPOSED: to rename 'process execution' by 'activity' ←
15:31:18 <Curt> Luc: not as much support for second proposal
Luc Moreau: not as much support for second proposal ←
15:31:48 <Curt> Luc: rationale - the first proposal introduces entity as an identifiable characterized thing
Luc Moreau: rationale - the first proposal introduces entity as an identifiable characterized thing ←
15:32:00 <Curt> ... we need to bring section 5 to match
... we need to bring section 5 to match ←
15:32:10 <sandro> @satya specifically: http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-rdf11-concepts-20110830/#section-skolemization
Sandro Hawke: @satya specifically: http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-rdf11-concepts-20110830/#section-skolemization ←
15:32:33 <Curt> ... entity expression describes entity
... entity expression describes entity ←
15:32:49 <satya> @Daniel: OPMO has multiple OWL specific modeling issues and there are no application using OPMO for generating RDF in contrast to ontologies listed in NCBO: http://bioportal.bioontology.org/ontologies
Satya Sahoo: @Daniel: OPMO has multiple OWL specific modeling issues and there are no application using OPMO for generating RDF in contrast to ontologies listed in NCBO: http://bioportal.bioontology.org/ontologies ←
15:33:01 <satya> @Sandro thanks!
Satya Sahoo: @Sandro thanks! ←
15:33:12 <Curt> ... there are negative votes for replacing process execution with activity
... there are negative votes for replacing process execution with activity ←
15:33:18 <dgarijo> @Satya: yes, there are.
Daniel Garijo: @Satya: yes, there are. ←
15:33:34 <JimMcCusker> +q
James McCusker: +q ←
15:33:37 <Curt> Luc: first proposal being accepted and not second would make document confusing
Luc Moreau: first proposal being accepted and not second would make document confusing ←
15:33:44 <Luc> ack Jim
Luc Moreau: ack Jim ←
15:33:51 <pgroth> we can't hear you
Paul Groth: we can't hear you ←
15:33:52 <Luc> we can't hear you
Luc Moreau: we can't hear you ←
15:33:57 <satya> @Daniel, also easier does not mean repeating mistakes already known to the community'
Satya Sahoo: @Daniel, also easier does not mean repeating mistakes already known to the community' ←
15:34:05 <Curt> JimMcCusker: Plan B is to use some other word
James McCusker: Plan B is to use some other word ←
15:34:10 <satya> @Daniel, can you send pointers
Satya Sahoo: @Daniel, can you send pointers ←
15:34:32 <Curt> ... there are problems with process as well, but it is ok
... there are problems with process as well, but it is ok ←
15:34:37 <Curt> ... perhaps use event?
... perhaps use event? ←
15:34:50 <Curt> Luc: that isn't the current issue
Luc Moreau: that isn't the current issue ←
15:35:13 <pgroth> +q
Paul Groth: +q ←
15:35:26 <dgarijo> @satya: http://webenemasuno.linkeddata.es/models_en.html, http://www.policygrid.org/ (But according to what Luc is saying, maybe we should leave this for monday)
Daniel Garijo: @satya: http://webenemasuno.linkeddata.es/models_en.html, http://www.policygrid.org/ (But according to what Luc is saying, maybe we should leave this for monday) ←
15:35:32 <Curt> JimMcCusker: Borrow the term as an alternative
James McCusker: Borrow the term as an alternative ←
15:35:39 <pgroth> ack pgroth
Paul Groth: ack pgroth ←
15:36:00 <Curt> Luc: There is no proposal to remove term activity. We are just trying to align terms.
Luc Moreau: There is no proposal to remove term activity. We are just trying to align terms. ←
15:36:15 <Curt> ... We can make it clear that there is no agency involved
... We can make it clear that there is no agency involved ←
15:36:25 <Curt> JimMcCusker: Activity implies actor
James McCusker: Activity implies actor ←
15:36:27 <pgroth> +q
Paul Groth: +q ←
15:36:34 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:36:36 <Curt> ... invites misinterpretation
... invites misinterpretation ←
15:36:43 <stain> \=1
Stian Soiland-Reyes: \=1 ←
15:36:43 <Luc> ack
Luc Moreau: ack ←
15:36:46 <stain> plus 1
Stian Soiland-Reyes: plus 1 ←
15:36:47 <Luc> ack pgr
Luc Moreau: ack pgr ←
15:36:58 <Curt> pgroth: Why didn't this come up earlier?
Paul Groth: Why didn't this come up earlier? ←
15:37:17 <Curt> ... We can at least simplify this so we are discussing one term
... We can at least simplify this so we are discussing one term ←
15:37:24 <stain> I think it did not come up earlier because it was just in the preamble of the conceptualisation which was always about "stuff and things in the world" and probably easy to overlook
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I think it did not come up earlier because it was just in the preamble of the conceptualisation which was always about "stuff and things in the world" and probably easy to overlook ←
15:37:27 <Curt> ... This proposal is trying to simplify use of terms
... This proposal is trying to simplify use of terms ←
15:37:30 <Luc> currently, a minimum of 54 occurrences of the word activity in prov-dm
Luc Moreau: currently, a minimum of 54 occurrences of the word activity in prov-dm ←
15:37:30 <JimMcCusker> I didn't raise it earlier because "activity" was being used informally.
James McCusker: I didn't raise it earlier because "activity" was being used informally. ←
15:37:45 <Curt> ... Other terms are a separate issue
... Other terms are a separate issue ←
15:38:02 <Curt> JimMcCusker: Ok, if the proposal is to align terms, we should do that
James McCusker: Ok, if the proposal is to align terms, we should do that ←
15:38:17 <Curt> Luc: proposal not perfectly clear, but the intent is alignment
Luc Moreau: proposal not perfectly clear, but the intent is alignment ←
15:38:19 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:38:21 <pgroth> q+
Paul Groth: q+ ←
15:38:25 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:38:26 <stain> alignment can happen from both sides
Stian Soiland-Reyes: alignment can happen from both sides ←
15:39:05 <pgroth> PROPOSED: align terminology of process execution and activity with entity and entity expression
PROPOSED: align terminology of process execution and activity with entity and entity expression ←
15:40:10 <Luc> PROPOSED: align terminology of process execution expression and entity expression with activity and entity
PROPOSED: align terminology of process execution expression and entity expression with activity and entity ←
15:40:22 <Luc> PROPOSED: align terminology of process execution expression and entity expression with activity and entity, respectively
PROPOSED: align terminology of process execution expression and entity expression with activity and entity, respectively ←
15:40:32 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:40:35 <pgroth> ack pgroth
Paul Groth: ack pgroth ←
15:40:39 <Curt> Luc: Jim, is that better?
Luc Moreau: Jim, is that better? ←
15:41:01 <Curt> JimMcCusker: Yes, that is better, I'll raise the issue
James McCusker: Yes, that is better, I'll raise the issue ←
15:41:09 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:41:17 <satya> q+
Satya Sahoo: q+ ←
15:41:17 <smiles> +1
Simon Miles: +1 ←
15:41:18 <JimMcCusker> +1
James McCusker: +1 ←
15:41:23 <zednik> +1
Stephan Zednik: +1 ←
15:41:24 <dgarijo> +1
Daniel Garijo: +1 ←
15:41:30 <stain> +1
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 ←
15:41:40 <Zakim> -stain
Zakim IRC Bot: -stain ←
15:41:43 <Curt> satya: 'align' is to use the new terms?
Satya Sahoo: 'align' is to use the new terms? ←
15:41:58 <Curt> ... we are replacing the terms in the document
... we are replacing the terms in the document ←
15:42:06 <Curt> Luc: Yes, we are using the new terms
Luc Moreau: Yes, we are using the new terms ←
15:42:36 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:42:43 <Luc> ack satya
Luc Moreau: ack satya ←
15:42:43 <satya> +1 (differentiating between activity execution and activity specification)
Satya Sahoo: +1 (differentiating between activity execution and activity specification) ←
15:42:44 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←
15:42:45 <Curt> +1
+1 ←
15:42:46 <SamCoppens> +1
Sam Coppens: +1 ←
15:42:49 <YolandaGil> +1
Yolanda Gil: +1 ←
15:43:01 <Zakim> -Yogesh_Simmhan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Yogesh_Simmhan ←
15:43:07 <Luc> ACCEPTED: align terminology of process execution expression and entity expression with activity and entity, respectively
RESOLVED: align terminology of process execution expression and entity expression with activity and entity, respectively ←
15:43:08 <Zakim> +stain
Zakim IRC Bot: +stain ←
15:43:28 <dgarijo> @Satya: but activity specification isn't Recipe (or recipeLink) already?
Daniel Garijo: @Satya: but activity specification isn't Recipe (or recipeLink) already? ←
15:43:51 <dgarijo> I mean, they are already differentiated, right?
Daniel Garijo: I mean, they are already differentiated, right? ←
15:43:59 <satya> @Daniel: I did not find anything about OPMO and for PRISMA I did not see how OPMO is used for SIOC, MPEG-7 and other ontologies
Satya Sahoo: @Daniel: I did not find anything about OPMO and for PRISMA I did not see how OPMO is used for SIOC, MPEG-7 and other ontologies ←
<pgroth> Topic: Update on Primer
Summary: Many sections are completed. Paolo has been checking that examples used are consistent with the conceptual model.
<pgroth> Summary: Many sections are completed. Paolo has been checking that examples used are consistent with the conceptual model.
15:44:08 <Curt> smiles: people are adding a lot to the document
Simon Miles: people are adding a lot to the document ←
15:44:14 <Curt> ... intro done, examples coming in
... intro done, examples coming in ←
15:44:43 <Curt> ... sections allocated, Tim, Ted contributing sections
... sections allocated, Tim, Ted contributing sections ←
15:44:46 <Luc> ted?
Luc Moreau: ted? ←
15:45:14 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:45:15 <Curt> ... The rest is almost there, need some examples from some others
... The rest is almost there, need some examples from some others ←
15:45:17 <dgarijo> @Satya: in the webn+1 project is used for describing the evolution of the entities (travel guides). SIOC, MPEG-7 and other ontologies are used to describe those entities further.
Daniel Garijo: @Satya: in the webn+1 project is used for describing the evolution of the entities (travel guides). SIOC, MPEG-7 and other ontologies are used to describe those entities further. ←
15:45:25 <Curt> ... Paolo has been checking against the conceptual model
... Paolo has been checking against the conceptual model ←
15:45:31 <Curt> ... Satya will check against the formal model
... Satya will check against the formal model ←
15:45:37 <dgarijo> @Satya: http://webenemasuno.linkeddata.es/page/elviajero/resource/Guide/20040117ELPVIALBV_6.TES
Daniel Garijo: @Satya: http://webenemasuno.linkeddata.es/page/elviajero/resource/Guide/20040117ELPVIALBV_6.TES ←
15:45:38 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:46:08 <zednik> q+
Stephan Zednik: q+ ←
15:46:11 <satya> @Daniel: translation :)
Satya Sahoo: @Daniel: translation :) ←
15:46:27 <Curt> smiles: examples to be done soon, waiting on Tim,Ted sections, hopefully draft within the week
Simon Miles: examples to be done soon, waiting on Tim,Ted sections, hopefully draft within the week ←
15:46:30 <pgroth> q+
Paul Groth: q+ ←
15:46:35 <Luc> ack zed
Luc Moreau: ack zed ←
15:46:49 <Curt> zednik: Roles examples, same issues with entity and role
Stephan Zednik: Roles examples, same issues with entity and role ←
15:46:57 <Zakim> -SamCoppens
Zakim IRC Bot: -SamCoppens ←
15:47:21 <pgroth> you mean entityinrole?
Paul Groth: you mean entityinrole? ←
15:47:25 <Curt> ... in the work example, entity/role problems are still confusing
... in the work example, entity/role problems are still confusing ←
15:47:35 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:47:43 <zednik> q-
Stephan Zednik: q- ←
15:47:44 <Curt> Luc: hopefully we'll have a better solution on Monday
Luc Moreau: hopefully we'll have a better solution on Monday ←
15:47:44 <Zakim> +SamCoppens
Zakim IRC Bot: +SamCoppens ←
15:47:50 <stain> q\
Stian Soiland-Reyes: q\ ←
15:48:01 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:48:02 <Luc> ack pg
Luc Moreau: ack pg ←
15:48:16 <stain> q
15:48:28 <Curt> pgroth: primer - do the examples have problems that are difficult to explain?
Paul Groth: primer - do the examples have problems that are difficult to explain? ←
15:48:33 <Luc> ... or are difficult to understand in prov-dm?
Luc Moreau: ... or are difficult to understand in prov-dm? ←
15:48:38 <Curt> ... Are you capturing problems explaining things?
... Are you capturing problems explaining things? ←
15:49:04 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:49:47 <Curt> Roles/entities are the most difficult, should be resolved on monday
Roles/entities are the most difficult, should be resolved on monday ←
15:49:56 <Curt> zednik: also accounts
Stephan Zednik: also accounts ←
15:50:15 <Curt> Luc: We haven't really debated much about accounts yet
Luc Moreau: We haven't really debated much about accounts yet ←
15:50:30 <Curt> ... We might need to make changes to PROV-DM for accounts, but we haven't addressed
... We might need to make changes to PROV-DM for accounts, but we haven't addressed ←
15:50:55 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:51:38 <Curt> Topic: Building an Example Catalogue
Summary: Discussed having one repository for all examples. Suggestion was to have one mercurial repository for all examples with brief description of each. It should leverage Tim Lebo's and the Primers current example sets. Chairs to follow-up with the approach for creating this.
<pgroth> Summary: Discussed having one repository for all examples. Suggestion was to have one mercurial repository for all examples with brief description of each. It should leverage Tim Lebo's and the Primers current example sets. Chairs to follow-up with the approach for creating this.
15:51:52 <Curt> Luc: people writing documents, primer, etc. are making examples
Luc Moreau: people writing documents, primer, etc. are making examples ←
15:52:07 <Curt> ... We should build a catalogue of those examples systematically
... We should build a catalogue of those examples systematically ←
15:52:46 <Curt> ... We need something wider to evaluate the various representations
... We need something wider to evaluate the various representations ←
15:52:50 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:53:08 <pgroth> +1
Paul Groth: +1 ←
15:53:10 <Curt> Luc: Should we do that? How should we approach it?
Luc Moreau: Should we do that? How should we approach it? ←
15:53:10 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:53:11 <stain> hard to keep in sync
Stian Soiland-Reyes: hard to keep in sync ←
15:53:29 <dgarijo> @Luc: +1 for the catalogue. Are we going to have more than one RDF representation??
Daniel Garijo: @Luc: +1 for the catalogue. Are we going to have more than one RDF representation?? ←
15:54:00 <Curt> stain: examples aren't complex enough to handle everything
Stian Soiland-Reyes: examples aren't complex enough to handle everything ←
15:54:27 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:54:28 <Curt> ... difficult to make them match everything and stay up to date
... difficult to make them match everything and stay up to date ←
15:54:42 <Curt> Luc: concepts will stabilize, then it will be easier
Luc Moreau: concepts will stabilize, then it will be easier ←
15:54:43 <pgroth> q+
Paul Groth: q+ ←
15:54:52 <Luc> ack pg
Luc Moreau: ack pg ←
15:55:10 <Curt> pgroth: We could do it as an adjunct to the primer
Paul Groth: We could do it as an adjunct to the primer ←
15:55:31 <Curt> ... The primer could link to the examples on separate pages, we could restructure
... The primer could link to the examples on separate pages, we could restructure ←
15:55:31 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:55:55 <Curt> ... into a catalogue. Revisit after things are more stable.
... into a catalogue. Revisit after things are more stable. ←
15:56:17 <Curt> ... A single wiki page that links to all the different examples.
... A single wiki page that links to all the different examples. ←
15:56:22 <stain> +1
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 ←
15:56:30 <Curt> ... Link to blog posts, primer examples, etc. at least get a common list
... Link to blog posts, primer examples, etc. at least get a common list ←
15:56:49 <satya> @Daniel If you are interested, we can have short skype call right after the telcon now (just reviewed web1ontology.owl)
Satya Sahoo: @Daniel If you are interested, we can have short skype call right after the telcon now (just reviewed web1ontology.owl) ←
15:56:50 <Curt> Luc: Something more formal would help with tool development
Luc Moreau: Something more formal would help with tool development ←
15:57:01 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:57:30 <Curt> pgroth: Use wiki page as a directory, then add more structure/formality later
Paul Groth: Use wiki page as a directory, then add more structure/formality later ←
15:57:31 <dgarijo> @satya: ok
Daniel Garijo: @satya: ok ←
15:57:34 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:57:35 <smiles> q+
Simon Miles: q+ ←
15:57:47 <Luc> ack sm
Luc Moreau: ack sm ←
15:57:47 <satya> q+
Satya Sahoo: q+ ←
15:58:10 <pgroth> yeah
Paul Groth: yeah ←
15:58:19 <pgroth> well the turtle file
Paul Groth: well the turtle file ←
15:58:25 <Curt> smiles: How would that work?
Simon Miles: How would that work? ←
15:58:40 <Curt> Luc: As an RDF file, turtle, that would work.
Luc Moreau: As an RDF file, turtle, that would work. ←
15:58:51 <pgroth> yeah
Paul Groth: yeah ←
15:58:53 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:58:53 <Curt> ... Some comments with context/documentation
... Some comments with context/documentation ←
15:59:01 <Luc> ack sat
Luc Moreau: ack sat ←
15:59:26 <pgroth> q+
Paul Groth: q+ ←
15:59:30 <Curt> satya: How should we link the RDF/turtle files to the wiki/mercurial repository?
Satya Sahoo: How should we link the RDF/turtle files to the wiki/mercurial repository? ←
15:59:45 <pgroth> q-
Paul Groth: q- ←
15:59:51 <stain> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/90a007a1712d/ontology/examples/ontology-extensions
Stian Soiland-Reyes: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/90a007a1712d/ontology/examples/ontology-extensions ←
15:59:54 <Curt> Luc: Have a top level mercurial area for examples. If Tim has a structure, we can adopt it
Luc Moreau: Have a top level mercurial area for examples. If Tim has a structure, we can adopt it ←
16:00:02 <stain> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/90a007a1712d/ontology/components
Stian Soiland-Reyes: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/90a007a1712d/ontology/components ←
16:00:04 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:00:19 <stain> but its only provo now of course
Stian Soiland-Reyes: but its only provo now of course ←
16:00:31 <Zakim> -stain
Zakim IRC Bot: -stain ←
16:00:36 <stain> sorry
Stian Soiland-Reyes: sorry ←
16:00:40 <stain> son pulled phone
Stian Soiland-Reyes: son pulled phone ←
16:00:49 <Lena> (i have to go to another telco, I will continue to help simon in the primer document + RDF examples)
Helena Deus: (i have to go to another telco, I will continue to help simon in the primer document + RDF examples) ←
16:00:56 <Zakim> +stain
Zakim IRC Bot: +stain ←
16:01:12 <Zakim> -??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P10 ←
16:01:17 <Curt> Luc: A top-level project would help organize it. Stain noted there are PROV-O examples already there
Luc Moreau: A top-level project would help organize it. Stain noted there are PROV-O examples already there ←
16:01:37 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:01:55 <Curt> pgroth: Let's proceed, sort out details on email
Paul Groth: Let's proceed, sort out details on email ←
16:02:01 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:02:04 <stain> some of the components ex are out of date or experimental
Stian Soiland-Reyes: some of the components ex are out of date or experimental ←
16:02:13 <stain> but thart can be cleaned
Stian Soiland-Reyes: but thart can be cleaned ←
16:02:18 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller.a] ←
16:02:18 <Zakim> -smiles
Zakim IRC Bot: -smiles ←
16:02:20 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.aa]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller.aa] ←
16:02:22 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
16:02:23 <Zakim> -SamCoppens
Zakim IRC Bot: -SamCoppens ←
16:02:24 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo
Zakim IRC Bot: -Satya_Sahoo ←
16:02:25 <Zakim> -dgarijo
Zakim IRC Bot: -dgarijo ←
16:02:34 <Zakim> -stain
Zakim IRC Bot: -stain ←
16:02:34 <pgroth> rrsagent, set log public
Paul Groth: rrsagent, set log public ←
16:02:40 <pgroth> rrsagent, draft minutes
Paul Groth: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
16:02:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/27-prov-minutes.html pgroth
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/27-prov-minutes.html pgroth ←
16:02:41 <Zakim> -Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc ←
16:02:47 <pgroth> trackbot, end telcon
Paul Groth: trackbot, end telcon ←
16:02:47 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
16:02:47 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Curt_Tilmes, Yogesh_Simmhan, Sandro, dgarijo, smiles, Satya_Sahoo, SamCoppens, +1.518.633.aaaa, Yolanda, Luc, stain, pgroth, [IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been Curt_Tilmes, Yogesh_Simmhan, Sandro, dgarijo, smiles, Satya_Sahoo, SamCoppens, +1.518.633.aaaa, Yolanda, Luc, stain, pgroth, [IPcaller] ←
16:02:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
16:02:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/27-prov-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/27-prov-minutes.html trackbot ←
16:02:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
16:02:49 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←
16:02:51 <Zakim> -Yolanda
Zakim IRC Bot: -Yolanda ←
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