Yolanda Gil goes over the plan for the primer. Aim to have something ready within a month. Primer should consider both model and query, however, the model is the first goal.
The group agrees to drop the term "formel model" to refer to the semantic web ontology. Terms are requested for a vote at the next telecon.
Satya reviewed the status of the OWL Ontology. Goal is to address current issues while preparing the document for FPWD. Tim Lebo went over his proposal for dealing with accounts using named graphs. He was encouraged to continue to bring it to the attention of the RDF working group
Asked for support in advertising FPWD. Also discussed the status of the questionnaire.
14:51:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/10/06-prov-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/10/06-prov-irc ←
14:51:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:51:39 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be ←
14:51:39 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot ←
14:51:40 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:51:40 <trackbot> Date: 06 October 2011
14:51:53 <pgroth> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.10.06
14:52:02 <pgroth> Chair: Paul Groth
14:52:12 <pgroth> rrsagent, make logs public
Paul Groth: rrsagent, make logs public ←
14:52:29 <pgroth> Zakim, who is here?
Paul Groth: Zakim, who is here? ←
14:52:29 <Zakim> sorry, pgroth, I don't know what conference this is
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, pgroth, I don't know what conference this is ←
14:52:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, pgroth, MacTed, stain, trackbot, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, pgroth, MacTed, stain, trackbot, sandro ←
14:52:42 <pgroth> Zakim, this will be PROV
Paul Groth: Zakim, this will be PROV ←
14:52:54 <Zakim> ok, pgroth; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, pgroth; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes ←
14:53:06 <pgroth> Zakim, who is here?
Paul Groth: Zakim, who is here? ←
14:53:14 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has not yet started, pgroth
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has not yet started, pgroth ←
14:53:24 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, pgroth, MacTed, stain, trackbot, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, pgroth, MacTed, stain, trackbot, sandro ←
14:53:50 <stain_> two of me!
Stian Soiland-Reyes: two of me! ←
14:55:39 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started ←
14:55:46 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:55:48 <pgroth> Zakim, who is on the call?
Paul Groth: Zakim, who is on the call? ←
14:55:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see [IPcaller] ←
14:56:06 <pgroth> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
Paul Groth: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me ←
14:56:06 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it ←
14:56:19 <pgroth> does anyone want to scribe?
Paul Groth: does anyone want to scribe? ←
14:57:56 <pgroth> Regrets: Paolo Missier
14:58:00 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes
Zakim IRC Bot: +Curt_Tilmes ←
14:58:58 <Zakim> + +44.789.470.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.789.470.aaaa ←
14:59:05 <Zakim> +Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc ←
14:59:14 <stain> Zakim, +44.789.470.aaaa is me
Stian Soiland-Reyes: Zakim, +44.789.470.aaaa is me ←
14:59:14 <Zakim> +stain; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +stain; got it ←
14:59:16 <pgroth> Stephan can you scribe?
Paul Groth: Stephan can you scribe? ←
15:00:14 <Zakim> +??P64
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P64 ←
15:00:19 <jcheney> zakim, ??p64 is me
James Cheney: zakim, ??p64 is me ←
15:00:31 <Zakim> +??P65
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P65 ←
15:00:44 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jcheney; got it ←
15:00:47 <Zakim> + +1.509.967.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.509.967.aabb ←
15:00:51 <pgroth> scribe anybody?
Paul Groth: scribe anybody? ←
15:01:05 <Zakim> +??P73
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P73 ←
15:01:15 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo
Zakim IRC Bot: +Satya_Sahoo ←
15:01:42 <tlebo> zakim, who is on the phone?
Timothy Lebo: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:01:55 <Zakim> + +1.315.330.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.315.330.aacc ←
15:02:03 <tlebo> zakim, aac is lebot
Timothy Lebo: zakim, aac is lebot ←
15:02:06 <stain> yes, Satya would be talking a bit today ;)
Stian Soiland-Reyes: yes, Satya would be talking a bit today ;) ←
15:02:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, Curt_Tilmes, stain, Luc, jcheney, ??P65, +1.509.967.aabb, ??P73, Satya_Sahoo, +1.315.330.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, Curt_Tilmes, stain, Luc, jcheney, ??P65, +1.509.967.aabb, ??P73, Satya_Sahoo, +1.315.330.aacc ←
15:02:10 <tlebo> zakim, 315 is me
Timothy Lebo: zakim, 315 is me ←
15:02:25 <tlebo> zakim, aacc is tlebo
Timothy Lebo: zakim, aacc is tlebo ←
15:02:30 <Zakim> +??P48
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P48 ←
15:02:31 <Zakim> sorry, tlebo, I do not recognize a party named 'aac'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, tlebo, I do not recognize a party named 'aac' ←
15:02:36 <kai> zakim, ??P48 is probably me.
Kai Eckert: zakim, ??P48 is probably me. ←
15:02:37 <tlebo> zakim, just know what I mean!
Timothy Lebo: zakim, just know what I mean! ←
15:02:47 <Zakim> sorry, tlebo, I do not recognize a party named '315'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, tlebo, I do not recognize a party named '315' ←
15:02:50 <Zakim> + +1.518.633.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.633.aadd ←
15:02:55 <Zakim> +??P84
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P84 ←
15:02:57 <Zakim> +tlebo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tlebo; got it ←
15:02:59 <Zakim> +kai?; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +kai?; got it ←
15:03:01 <pgroth> pgroth: ask for scribes
Paul Groth: ask for scribes [ Scribe Assist by Paul Groth ] ←
15:03:03 <Zakim> I don't understand 'just know what I mean!', tlebo
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'just know what I mean!', tlebo ←
15:03:20 <pgroth> Scribe: ericstephan
(Scribe set to Eric Stephan)
15:03:30 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
15:03:54 <pgroth> Minutes
Paul Groth: Minutes ←
15:03:55 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-09-29
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-09-29 ←
15:04:02 <Zakim> +??P55
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P55 ←
15:04:03 <pgroth> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of Sep 29 telecon
Paul Groth: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of Sep 29 telecon ←
15:04:05 <satya> +1
Satya Sahoo: +1 ←
15:04:07 <stain> Zakim never recognizes me.. on http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/info/name.php3 exactly what do I need to fill in? stain or ssoiland or Stian Soiland-Reyes? +44....aaa or with the real digits?
Stian Soiland-Reyes: Zakim never recognizes me.. on http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/info/name.php3 exactly what do I need to fill in? stain or ssoiland or Stian Soiland-Reyes? +44....aaa or with the real digits? ←
15:04:08 <ericstephan> pgroth: proposal to accept minutes
Paul Groth: proposal to accept minutes ←
15:04:09 <jcheney> +1
James Cheney: +1 ←
15:04:09 <Curt> +1
Curt Tilmes: +1 ←
15:04:10 <kai> +1
Kai Eckert: +1 ←
15:04:11 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←
15:04:11 <ericstephan> +1
+1 ←
15:04:18 <stain> +1
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 ←
15:04:19 <tlebo> +1
Timothy Lebo: +1 ←
15:04:24 <stain> I was not there, but you represented me well ;)
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I was not there, but you represented me well ;) ←
15:04:31 <khalidbelhajjame> zakim, ??P84 is me
Khalid Belhajjame: zakim, ??P84 is me ←
15:04:39 <pgroth> ACCEPTED minutes from last week
Paul Groth: ACCEPTED minutes from last week ←
15:04:55 <ericstephan> pgroth: no action items to review
Paul Groth: no action items to review ←
15:05:02 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Scribes
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Scribes ←
15:05:19 <ericstephan> pgroth: reminder we need scribes in advance. Please sign up.
Paul Groth: reminder we need scribes in advance. Please sign up. ←
15:05:30 <pgroth> TOPIC: Primer
Summary: Yolanda Gil goes over the plan for the primer. Aim to have something ready within a month. Primer should consider both model and query, however, the model is the first goal.
<pgroth> Summary: Yolanda Gil goes over the plan for the primer. Aim to have something ready within a month. Primer should consider both model and query, however, the model is the first goal.
15:05:34 <Zakim> +khalidbelhajjame; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +khalidbelhajjame; got it ←
15:05:56 <ericstephan> yolanda: discussing Primer
Yolanda Gil: discussing Primer ←
15:06:08 <YolandaGil> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/primer/Primer.html
Yolanda Gil: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/primer/Primer.html ←
15:06:16 <ericstephan> yolanda: Initial plan was developed last Friday
Yolanda Gil: Initial plan was developed last Friday ←
15:06:34 <ericstephan> yolanda: two major sections...
Yolanda Gil: two major sections... ←
15:06:51 <ericstephan> yolanda: Intro to provenance concepts...informal
Yolanda Gil: Intro to provenance concepts...informal ←
15:07:05 <ericstephan> yolanda: Second half worked out examples
Yolanda Gil: Second half worked out examples ←
15:07:34 <ericstephan> yolanda: wants to use examples based on ths same general scenario
Yolanda Gil: wants to use examples based on ths same general scenario ←
15:08:25 <tlebo> +q to mention http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PROV_OWL_ontology_component_examples
Timothy Lebo: +q to mention http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PROV_OWL_ontology_component_examples ←
15:08:27 <ericstephan> yolanda: Simon created skeleton doc.
Yolanda Gil: Simon created skeleton doc. ←
15:09:34 <ericstephan> Yolanda: For each example section Yolanda/Simon asked for people to fill out each part
Yolanda Gil: For each example section Yolanda/Simon asked for people to fill out each part ←
15:10:08 <ericstephan> Yolanda: Having the doc ready in 3-4 weeks sufficient?
Yolanda Gil: Having the doc ready in 3-4 weeks sufficient? ←
15:10:49 <tlebo> 3-4 weeks is reasonable goal.
Timothy Lebo: 3-4 weeks is reasonable goal. ←
15:10:49 <Luc> it's ambitious, I believe
Luc Moreau: it's ambitious, I believe ←
15:11:00 <tlebo> (emphasis on "goal")
Timothy Lebo: (emphasis on "goal") ←
15:11:17 <stain> Is that 3-4 weeks for first public draft of the primer, or to be ready for in-group review?
Stian Soiland-Reyes: Is that 3-4 weeks for first public draft of the primer, or to be ready for in-group review? ←
15:11:23 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:11:26 <ericstephan> Yolanda: 2 weeks the group would work out examples. 2 weeks would be reviewed by the group overall
Yolanda Gil: 2 weeks the group would work out examples. 2 weeks would be reviewed by the group overall ←
15:11:46 <YolandaGil> first in group review Stian
Yolanda Gil: first in group review Stian ←
15:11:50 <ericstephan> Tim: Has been collecting examples in the wiki that could be drawn upon
Timothy Lebo: Has been collecting examples in the wiki that could be drawn upon ←
15:11:55 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:11:55 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:11:56 <satya> +1 for including the examples by Tim
Satya Sahoo: +1 for including the examples by Tim ←
15:11:57 <stain> that's very helpful, tlebo
Stian Soiland-Reyes: that's very helpful, tlebo ←
15:11:59 <pgroth> ack tlebo
Paul Groth: ack tlebo ←
15:11:59 <Zakim> tlebo, you wanted to mention http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PROV_OWL_ontology_component_examples
Zakim IRC Bot: tlebo, you wanted to mention http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PROV_OWL_ontology_component_examples ←
15:12:01 <satya> q+
Satya Sahoo: q+ ←
15:12:02 <tlebo> q-
Timothy Lebo: q- ←
15:12:17 <pgroth> ack Luc
Paul Groth: ack Luc ←
15:12:18 <khalidbelhajjame> +q
Khalid Belhajjame: +q ←
15:12:42 <ericstephan> Luc: Very ambitious, it would be good to have this within the month for the overall group
Luc Moreau: Very ambitious, it would be good to have this within the month for the overall group ←
15:13:34 <stain> I've done my examples both in TTL and PROV-ASN - but manually, of course
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I've done my examples both in TTL and PROV-ASN - but manually, of course ←
15:13:39 <satya> Luc is mentioning this: http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/REC-owl2-primer-20091027/#OWL_Syntaxes
Satya Sahoo: Luc is mentioning this: http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/REC-owl2-primer-20091027/#OWL_Syntaxes ←
15:13:47 <ericstephan> Luc: If the examples could be organized so that they could be expressed in different ways this would be nice
Luc Moreau: If the examples could be organized so that they could be expressed in different ways this would be nice ←
15:14:22 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:14:24 <ericstephan> Luc: We want to make sure the Primer stays insync with the schemas as they emerge. Script checks would be nice
Luc Moreau: We want to make sure the Primer stays insync with the schemas as they emerge. Script checks would be nice ←
15:14:52 <stain> many JS-experts who know how to do that include-thingie?
Stian Soiland-Reyes: many JS-experts who know how to do that include-thingie? ←
15:15:07 <tlebo> automated verification of examples "stuck in HTML" is a great idea. I'm willing to take lead on that.
Timothy Lebo: automated verification of examples "stuck in HTML" is a great idea. I'm willing to take lead on that. ←
15:15:08 <ericstephan> Luc: Within the context of the primer, the ontology group should be able to give you guidance
Luc Moreau: Within the context of the primer, the ontology group should be able to give you guidance ←
15:15:10 <pgroth> ack satya
Paul Groth: ack satya ←
15:15:13 <stain> alternatively an XHTML-extraction-tool could try to dump out everything say <pre class="example">
Stian Soiland-Reyes: alternatively an XHTML-extraction-tool could try to dump out everything say <pre class="example"> ←
15:15:25 <tlebo> +1 @stian
Timothy Lebo: +1 @stian ←
15:15:34 <Luc> respect.js allows for inclusion of files ...
Luc Moreau: respect.js allows for inclusion of files ... ←
15:15:45 <ericstephan> Satya: Overview comments...the primer should cover the modeling aspects, but also the querying aspects
Satya Sahoo: Overview comments...the primer should cover the modeling aspects, but also the querying aspects ←
15:16:20 <ericstephan> Satya: It would be helpful with a scenario like the data model group
Satya Sahoo: It would be helpful with a scenario like the data model group ←
15:16:26 <Luc> respec.js allows for inclusion of files ...
Luc Moreau: respec.js allows for inclusion of files ... ←
15:16:42 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:16:46 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:16:52 <ericstephan> Satya: After the scenario bring out these capabiltieis
Satya Sahoo: After the scenario bring out these capabiltieis ←
15:17:31 <ericstephan> Yolanda: Simon and I talked about bringing out three different perspectives of provenance
Yolanda Gil: Simon and I talked about bringing out three different perspectives of provenance ←
15:17:55 <Luc> q-
Luc Moreau: q- ←
15:18:05 <stain> <div data-include='myDatatypes.xsd'></div>
Stian Soiland-Reyes: <div data-include='myDatatypes.xsd'></div> ←
15:18:09 <ericstephan> Yolanda: Document, process, and other perspectives views might be helpful
Yolanda Gil: Document, process, and other perspectives views might be helpful ←
15:18:16 <Luc> q+ to ask if primer is just about model or also about PAQ
Luc Moreau: q+ to ask if primer is just about model or also about PAQ ←
15:18:24 <satya> @Yolanda +1
Satya Sahoo: @Yolanda +1 ←
15:18:28 <pgroth> ack khalidbelhajjame
Paul Groth: ack khalidbelhajjame ←
15:19:09 <ericstephan> Khalid: My only worry is hitting the relationship between concepts...could we give concepts in relationship to importance so that the reader could follow it?
Khalid Belhajjame: My only worry is hitting the relationship between concepts...could we give concepts in relationship to importance so that the reader could follow it? ←
15:19:26 <tlebo> +1 daniel, deemphasizing the focus on the concepts might make it more approachable.
Timothy Lebo: +1 daniel, deemphasizing the focus on the concepts might make it more approachable. ←
15:19:30 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:19:39 <ericstephan> Yolanda: It would definitely make the primer more usable.
Yolanda Gil: It would definitely make the primer more usable. ←
15:19:45 <pgroth> ack luc
Paul Groth: ack luc ←
15:19:45 <Zakim> Luc, you wanted to ask if primer is just about model or also about PAQ
Zakim IRC Bot: Luc, you wanted to ask if primer is just about model or also about PAQ ←
15:19:56 <stain> @khalidbelhajjame +1 - the other two documents are already "sequential" by class/property, so a non-sequential prioritised example would help
Stian Soiland-Reyes: @khalidbelhajjame +1 - the other two documents are already "sequential" by class/property, so a non-sequential prioritised example would help ←
15:20:26 <ericstephan> Luc: Two questions...It feels like the primer is just about the provenance ontology, what about the provenance of (sorry couldn't hear)
Luc Moreau: Two questions...It feels like the primer is just about the provenance ontology, what about the provenance of (sorry couldn't hear) ←
15:20:50 <stain> Luc: ... provenance access and query document
Luc Moreau: ... provenance access and query document [ Scribe Assist by Stian Soiland-Reyes ] ←
15:21:20 <ericstephan> Luc: Second point a number of common relations in the data model not listed here...its important that they are addressed.
Luc Moreau: Second point a number of common relations in the data model not listed here...its important that they are addressed. ←
15:22:08 <ericstephan> Yolanda: I think it would be good to have a first draft to see what needs to be improved...to show what is shown in primer vs practice
Yolanda Gil: I think it would be good to have a first draft to see what needs to be improved...to show what is shown in primer vs practice ←
15:22:11 <tlebo> pushing shortcut aspects to Best Practices makes sense.
Timothy Lebo: pushing shortcut aspects to Best Practices makes sense. ←
15:22:14 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:23:03 <tlebo> Primer some reads a couple of times, then moves to regularly reference the Best Practices for design solutions to apply to their problems.
Timothy Lebo: Primer some reads a couple of times, then moves to regularly reference the Best Practices for design solutions to apply to their problems. ←
15:23:04 <ericstephan> Luc: For now the primer will focus on the core concpets of the model, but extensions addressed later...
Luc Moreau: For now the primer will focus on the core concpets of the model, but extensions addressed later... ←
15:23:10 <tlebo> *someone
Timothy Lebo: *someone ←
15:23:31 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:23:34 <ericstephan> pgroth: I'd like to discuss more, perhaps later will raise issue later
Paul Groth: I'd like to discuss more, perhaps later will raise issue later ←
15:23:55 <tlebo> retweet - someone reads the Primer a couple of times, then moves to regularly reference the Best Practices Document to get design solutions and apply them to their problems.
Timothy Lebo: retweet - someone reads the Primer a couple of times, then moves to regularly reference the Best Practices Document to get design solutions and apply them to their problems. ←
15:24:11 <pgroth> TOPIC: Renaming Deliverables
Summary: The group agrees to drop the term "formel model" to refer to the semantic web ontology. Terms are requested for a vote at the next telecon.
<pgroth> Summary: The group agrees to drop the term "formel model" to refer to the semantic web ontology. Terms are requested for a vote at the next telecon.
15:24:50 <pgroth> Proposed: Drop 'formel model' name for referring to the semantic web ontology
PROPOSED: Drop 'formel model' name for referring to the semantic web ontology ←
15:25:04 <ericstephan> pgroth: comments on this?
Paul Groth: comments on this? ←
15:25:15 <satya> briefly discussed during ontology call
Satya Sahoo: briefly discussed during ontology call ←
15:25:29 <jcheney> +1
James Cheney: +1 ←
15:25:29 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←
15:25:30 <stain> +1
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 ←
15:25:30 <Curt> +1
Curt Tilmes: +1 ←
15:25:30 <satya> +1
Satya Sahoo: +1 ←
15:25:32 <zednik> +1
Stephan Zednik: +1 ←
15:25:32 <tlebo> +1 x10^5; I suggest renaming it to "PROV OWL Encoding"
Timothy Lebo: +1 x10^5; I suggest renaming it to "PROV OWL Encoding" ←
15:25:33 <ericstephan> +1
+1 ←
15:25:40 <kai> +1
Kai Eckert: +1 ←
15:25:40 <YolandaGil> +1
Yolanda Gil: +1 ←
15:25:57 <pgroth> Resolved: Drop 'formel model' name for referring to the semantic web ontology
RESOLVED: Drop 'formel model' name for referring to the semantic web ontology ←
15:25:59 <satya> q+
Satya Sahoo: q+ ←
15:26:01 <ericstephan> pgroth: approved
Paul Groth: approved ←
15:26:17 <satya> PROV Ontology Model (also PROV ontology)
Satya Sahoo: PROV Ontology Model (also PROV ontology) ←
15:26:44 <satya> q-
Satya Sahoo: q- ←
15:26:47 <khalidbelhajjame> Paolo isn't on the call, but he was suggesting PROV-Onto
Khalid Belhajjame: Paolo isn't on the call, but he was suggesting PROV-Onto ←
15:26:51 <ericstephan> pgroth: Put suggested name on the mailing list vote next week
Paul Groth: Put suggested name on the mailing list vote next week ←
15:27:05 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:27:30 <pgroth> TOPIC: OWL Ontology
Summary: Satya reviewed the status of the OWL Ontology. Goal is to address current issues while preparing the document for FPWD. Tim Lebo went over his proposal for dealing with accounts using named graphs. He was encouraged to continue to bring it to the attention of the RDF working group
<pgroth> Summary: Satya reviewed the status of the OWL Ontology. Goal is to address current issues while preparing the document for FPWD. Tim Lebo went over his proposal for dealing with accounts using named graphs. He was encouraged to continue to bring it to the attention of the RDF working group
15:27:42 <tlebo> does anyone know which issue the formal renaming is?
Timothy Lebo: does anyone know which issue the formal renaming is? ←
15:27:52 <ericstephan> pgroth: satya review of ontology
Paul Groth: satya review of ontology ←
15:28:10 <stain> I don't think there is an official issue yet for the name
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I don't think there is an official issue yet for the name ←
15:28:13 <ericstephan> Satya: requested reviews, feedback and comments yesterday
Satya Sahoo: requested reviews, feedback and comments yesterday ←
15:28:45 <ericstephan> Satya: Covered all sections we planned to do, lots of editing ahead, ready for review from end to end.
Satya Sahoo: Covered all sections we planned to do, lots of editing ahead, ready for review from end to end. ←
15:29:17 <ericstephan> Satya: Jcheney acting as user perpsective reviewer
Satya Sahoo: Jcheney acting as user perpsective reviewer ←
15:29:59 <tlebo> (what is the subject of the email proposing the Formal Model rename? It's buried :-)
Timothy Lebo: (what is the subject of the email proposing the Formal Model rename? It's buried :-) ←
15:30:19 <ericstephan> Satya: need to formalize concepts in OWL framework and explain how it can be used by another ontology
Satya Sahoo: need to formalize concepts in OWL framework and explain how it can be used by another ontology ←
15:30:35 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:30:37 <ericstephan> Satya: Describe the inferences given that its an OWL ontology
Satya Sahoo: Describe the inferences given that its an OWL ontology ←
15:30:46 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:30:55 <khalidbelhajjame> Tim, here is the subject "proposal: drop 'formal model' terminology"
Khalid Belhajjame: Tim, here is the subject "proposal: drop 'formal model' terminology" ←
15:31:15 <ericstephan> pgroth: what do you think needs to be done before making the owl ontology a first public working draft
Paul Groth: what do you think needs to be done before making the owl ontology a first public working draft ←
15:31:36 <Luc> @tlebo, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Sep/0338.html
Luc Moreau: @tlebo, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Sep/0338.html ←
15:31:49 <ericstephan> satya: currently making edits over the next week and doing the preliminary review as described earlier
Satya Sahoo: currently making edits over the next week and doing the preliminary review as described earlier ←
15:31:59 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:32:30 <ericstephan> pgroth: a couple of issues making sure ontology is integrated with model...issue of ACCOUNT
Paul Groth: a couple of issues making sure ontology is integrated with model...issue of ACCOUNT ←
15:32:32 <tlebo> (created issues on http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/120)
Timothy Lebo: (created issues on http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/120) ←
15:32:45 <tlebo> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Using_named_graphs_to_model_Accounts
Timothy Lebo: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Using_named_graphs_to_model_Accounts ←
15:33:01 <zednik> q+
Stephan Zednik: q+ ←
15:33:02 <ericstephan> tlebo: discussion starts with named graphs...
Timothy Lebo: discussion starts with named graphs... ←
15:33:26 <ericstephan> tlebo: named graphs are just by reference not value
Timothy Lebo: named graphs are just by reference not value ←
15:33:35 <zednik> q-
Stephan Zednik: q- ←
15:33:58 <ericstephan> tlebo: shows how named graphs are represented and model provenance accounts using named graphs
Timothy Lebo: shows how named graphs are represented and model provenance accounts using named graphs ←
15:34:26 <ericstephan> tlebo: named metagraphs are pairs of graphs, not commonly practiced in the rdf community
Timothy Lebo: named metagraphs are pairs of graphs, not commonly practiced in the rdf community ←
15:35:01 <ericstephan> tlebo: One graph naming another, draw distinction where these graphs are (metagraphs)
Timothy Lebo: One graph naming another, draw distinction where these graphs are (metagraphs) ←
15:35:39 <ericstephan> tlebo: example uses: cache a graph off the web storing it in your local graph
Timothy Lebo: example uses: cache a graph off the web storing it in your local graph ←
15:36:28 <ericstephan> tlebo: important distinction from traditional named graph communities, is that it is part of RDF as well as a SPARQL endpoint
Timothy Lebo: important distinction from traditional named graph communities, is that it is part of RDF as well as a SPARQL endpoint ←
15:37:04 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:37:05 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:37:12 <ericstephan> tlebo: let me know if you have any comments or suggestions
Timothy Lebo: let me know if you have any comments or suggestions ←
15:37:34 <ericstephan> Luc: It looks very clear, what is the implication of this in the ontology?
Luc Moreau: It looks very clear, what is the implication of this in the ontology? ←
15:37:52 <ericstephan> Tlebo: Needs to be an assertion process execution
Timothy Lebo: Needs to be an assertion process execution ←
15:38:11 <ericstephan> Tlebo: subclasses within classes of ontology
Timothy Lebo: subclasses within classes of ontology ←
15:38:59 <ericstephan> Luc: in the abstract model have assertions made by two entities that are complements of each other. How would it work in this context? Is it only available at the RDF level?
Luc Moreau: in the abstract model have assertions made by two entities that are complements of each other. How would it work in this context? Is it only available at the RDF level? ←
15:39:56 <ericstephan> Luc: Would there be any constructs any assertions belong to a given account?
Luc Moreau: Would there be any constructs any assertions belong to a given account? ←
15:40:24 <satya> That overlaps with notion of a container structure containing a set of assertions, hence belonging to the container
Satya Sahoo: That overlaps with notion of a container structure containing a set of assertions, hence belonging to the container ←
15:40:39 <khalidbelhajjame> I think the short answer to Luc's question is no.
Khalid Belhajjame: I think the short answer to Luc's question is no. ←
15:40:43 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:40:47 <pgroth> ack Luc
Paul Groth: ack Luc ←
15:41:16 <satya> @Tim: Right - which is also supported by SPARQL
Satya Sahoo: @Tim: Right - which is also supported by SPARQL ←
15:41:17 <ericstephan> Tlebo: there would be a way of specifying a named graph that was asserted.
Timothy Lebo: there would be a way of specifying a named graph that was asserted. ←
15:41:25 <khalidbelhajjame> Luc, you are right
Khalid Belhajjame: Luc, you are right ←
15:41:30 <ericstephan> Luc: The account isn't at the owl level?
Luc Moreau: The account isn't at the owl level? ←
15:41:31 <pgroth> but they will be
Paul Groth: but they will be ←
15:41:41 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:41:50 <ericstephan> Tlebo: writing up at the owl level
Timothy Lebo: writing up at the owl level ←
15:42:05 <ericstephan> sandro: (hard to hear)
Sandro Hawke: (hard to hear) ←
15:42:43 <ericstephan> sandro: is the notion of named graphs also assuming nothing is changed?
Sandro Hawke: is the notion of named graphs also assuming nothing is changed? ←
15:43:01 <ericstephan> tlebo: quite the opposite changing all the time
Timothy Lebo: quite the opposite changing all the time ←
15:43:19 <ericstephan> tlebo: account asserted at a particular time.
Timothy Lebo: account asserted at a particular time. ←
15:44:14 <ericstephan> tlebo: these things can move, they don't have to
Timothy Lebo: these things can move, they don't have to ←
15:44:46 <ericstephan> tlebo: you can serialize that named graph and make it an annotation for your account., you don't have to for that account assertion
Timothy Lebo: you can serialize that named graph and make it an annotation for your account., you don't have to for that account assertion ←
15:44:56 <ericstephan> sandro: formal definition of named graph?
Sandro Hawke: formal definition of named graph? ←
15:45:13 <ericstephan> tlebo: specification of a subset of an RDF named graph
Timothy Lebo: specification of a subset of an RDF named graph ←
15:45:41 <ericstephan> tlebo: location is important here, it is a location, and the constant can change at any time
Timothy Lebo: location is important here, it is a location, and the constant can change at any time ←
15:46:02 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:46:03 <ericstephan> sandro: (can't hear)
Sandro Hawke: (can't hear) ←
15:46:12 <pgroth> ack Sandro
Paul Groth: ack Sandro ←
15:46:39 <ericstephan> pgroth: working with Richard and working through this notion in the provenance rdf list
Paul Groth: working with Richard and working through this notion in the provenance rdf list ←
15:46:41 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:47:02 <ericstephan> Luc: Tim, have you seen that in the data model accounts they can be hierarchical?
Luc Moreau: Tim, have you seen that in the data model accounts they can be hierarchical? ←
15:47:25 <satya> No, containment relation for nested accounts
Satya Sahoo: No, containment relation for nested accounts ←
15:47:28 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:47:28 <ericstephan> Tlebo: I wasn't aware of the hierarchy, but will make sure nesting is accounted for
Timothy Lebo: I wasn't aware of the hierarchy, but will make sure nesting is accounted for ←
15:47:29 <satya> in RDF
Satya Sahoo: in RDF ←
15:47:35 <pgroth> ack LUc
Paul Groth: ack LUc ←
15:47:35 <satya> q+
Satya Sahoo: q+ ←
15:48:13 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:48:17 <ericstephan> satya: Luc and Tim if you read account, talks about scoping the identities and semantic constraints. They have global context cannot scope
Satya Sahoo: Luc and Tim if you read account, talks about scoping the identities and semantic constraints. They have global context cannot scope ←
15:48:19 <pgroth> ack satya
Paul Groth: ack satya ←
15:48:35 <ericstephan> Tlebo: Because we are using URI we control what we are talking about
Timothy Lebo: Because we are using URI we control what we are talking about ←
15:48:48 <ericstephan> Satya: WIll point Tim to existing work...
Satya Sahoo: WIll point Tim to existing work... ←
15:49:46 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:49:51 <pgroth> ack Luc
Paul Groth: ack Luc ←
15:49:54 <ericstephan> Luc: we need to be careful when we say we can't scope identifiers. What we are scoping is saying one thing about another resource...
Luc Moreau: we need to be careful when we say we can't scope identifiers. What we are scoping is saying one thing about another resource... ←
15:50:11 <ericstephan> Satya: I'll defer this to email...
Satya Sahoo: I'll defer this to email... ←
15:51:06 <ericstephan> Luc: We need to be careful when we refer to entity or resources.., please flag any unclear sentences
Luc Moreau: We need to be careful when we refer to entity or resources.., please flag any unclear sentences ←
15:51:07 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:51:13 <Luc> @tlebo, it's nice work indeed, thanks
Luc Moreau: @tlebo, it's nice work indeed, thanks ←
15:51:39 <stain> I'll poke Daniel
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I'll poke Daniel ←
15:52:34 <khalidbelhajjame> Also, we added a class Recipe
Khalid Belhajjame: Also, we added a class Recipe ←
15:52:52 <ericstephan> ericstephan: (sorry scribe was distracted Satya)
Eric Stephan: (sorry scribe was distracted Satya) ←
15:52:59 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:53:08 <pgroth> Topic: First Public Working Drafts
Summary: Asked for support in advertising FPWD. Also discussed the status of the questionnaire.
<pgroth> Summary: Asked for support in advertising FPWD. Also discussed the status of the questionnaire.
15:53:16 <Luc> @satya: there is an attribute location
Luc Moreau: @satya: there is an attribute location ←
15:53:38 <tlebo> satya: we need a property to associate Entity to Location, so we are gearing up to propose prov:hadLocation domain Entity range Location .
Satya Sahoo: we need a property to associate Entity to Location, so we are gearing up to propose prov:hadLocation domain Entity range Location . [ Scribe Assist by Timothy Lebo ] ←
15:54:20 <ericstephan> pgroth: we need to get people interested in and get feedback..releasing ontology and model at the same time...whats the schedule?
Paul Groth: we need to get people interested in and get feedback..releasing ontology and model at the same time...whats the schedule? ←
15:55:27 <Luc> @satya: ... and the qualifiers are in the DM
Luc Moreau: @satya: ... and the qualifiers are in the DM ←
15:55:41 <ericstephan> pgroth; volunteers for promoting first public working draft?
pgroth; volunteers for promoting first public working draft? ←
15:56:00 <satya> @Luc: as Tim said, we need two terms - a term for location and a property for linking to location (maybe that is covered by notion of qualifier)
Satya Sahoo: @Luc: as Tim said, we need two terms - a term for location and a property for linking to location (maybe that is covered by notion of qualifier) ←
15:56:05 <ericstephan> pgroth: blog posts or illustrative blog posts
Paul Groth: blog posts or illustrative blog posts ←
15:56:06 <khalidbelhajjame> Yes, I ll be interested in doing so
Khalid Belhajjame: Yes, I ll be interested in doing so ←
15:56:38 <satya> @Luc: From Account current description: "Account expressions constitue a scope for identifiers" where identifiers I interpret to be URI
Satya Sahoo: @Luc: From Account current description: "Account expressions constitue a scope for identifiers" where identifiers I interpret to be URI ←
15:56:41 <ericstephan> Yes I agree Paul
Yes I agree Paul ←
15:56:49 <stain> I would be willing to promote as well
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I would be willing to promote as well ←
15:56:51 <Christine> I agree too
Christine Runnegar: I agree too ←
15:56:56 <ericstephan> pgroth: status of questionaire?
Paul Groth: status of questionaire? ←
15:57:01 <stain> excuse to wake up ye old blog..
Stian Soiland-Reyes: excuse to wake up ye old blog.. ←
15:57:38 <ericstephan> zednik: should have a large influx from responses...getting it out there havent assessed feedback.
Stephan Zednik: should have a large influx from responses...getting it out there havent assessed feedback. ←
15:57:47 <stain> we can just tweet it
Stian Soiland-Reyes: we can just tweet it ←
15:57:50 <jcheney> I'd be happy to send survey/FPWD announcment to research data management and DCC mailing lists.
James Cheney: I'd be happy to send survey/FPWD announcment to research data management and DCC mailing lists. ←
15:58:04 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:58:20 <Zakim> -??P55
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P55 ←
15:58:21 <Luc> thanks all, bye
Luc Moreau: thanks all, bye ←
15:58:21 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo
Zakim IRC Bot: -Satya_Sahoo ←
15:58:22 <Zakim> -tlebo
Zakim IRC Bot: -tlebo ←
15:58:23 <Zakim> -??P65
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P65 ←
15:58:23 <Zakim> -??P73
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P73 ←
15:58:23 <Zakim> -jcheney
Zakim IRC Bot: -jcheney ←
15:58:24 <Zakim> -stain
Zakim IRC Bot: -stain ←
15:58:27 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
15:58:28 <Zakim> -Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc ←
15:58:31 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes
Zakim IRC Bot: -Curt_Tilmes ←
15:58:34 <Zakim> -kai
Zakim IRC Bot: -kai ←
15:58:35 <ericstephan> any follow up duties for scribe?
any follow up duties for scribe? ←
15:58:52 <pgroth> rrsagent, set log public
Paul Groth: rrsagent, set log public ←
15:58:59 <pgroth> rrsagent, draft minutes
Paul Groth: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
15:58:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/06-prov-minutes.html pgroth
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/06-prov-minutes.html pgroth ←
15:59:08 <pgroth> trackbot, end telcon
Paul Groth: trackbot, end telcon ←
15:59:08 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
15:59:08 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been pgroth, Curt_Tilmes, Luc, stain, jcheney, +1.509.967.aabb, Satya_Sahoo, +1.315.330.aacc, +1.518.633.aadd, tlebo, kai?, Sandro,
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been pgroth, Curt_Tilmes, Luc, stain, jcheney, +1.509.967.aabb, Satya_Sahoo, +1.315.330.aacc, +1.518.633.aadd, tlebo, kai?, Sandro, ←
15:59:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
15:59:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/06-prov-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/06-prov-minutes.html trackbot ←
15:59:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
15:59:10 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←
15:59:12 <Zakim> ... khalidbelhajjame
Zakim IRC Bot: ... khalidbelhajjame ←
Formatted by CommonScribe