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Provenance Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 25 August 2011

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.08.25
Seen
Curt Tilmes, Daniel Garijo, David Corsar, Edoardo Pignotti, Helena Deus, James Cheney, Jörn Hees, Khalid Belhajjame, Luc Moreau, Paul Groth, Paulo Pinheiro da Silva, Satya Sahoo, Simon Miles, Stephen Cresswell, Ted Thibodeau, Vinh Nguyen, Yogesh Simmhan, Yolanda Gil
Chair
Luc Moreau
Scribe
Paul Groth
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. To adopt camel case notation. In OWL, classes begin with upper case, and properties begin with lower case. link
  2. To express nodes in noun form link
  3. To express edges in verbal form link
Topics
  1. Admin

    Last week's minutes were approved and actions closed. The co-chairs are planning to identify a suitable time and location for F2F2, early in the new year. Participants are invited to suggest names for the standard, in view of resolution in September.

  2. Provenance Implementation and Test Cases

    No further feedback was received. The questionnaire is now going to be rolled out.

  3. Named graphs requirements

    The RDF-WG has approached the co-chairs to set up a joint teleconference, in which PROV-WG requirements for RDF Named Graphs are being discussed. Satya is setting up a page on the wiki. Members are invited to express their views on what requirements are.

  4. Adopting naming conventions

    Four proposals were drafted in the agenda. The first three were adopted. We did not reach consensus on directionality. Furthermore, we debated the use of tense without formulating a resolution. Watch this space!

  5. Provenance Ontology

    Satya reported on progress on the ontology. Focus is on working on the formal model document, the owl file will be updated later. The file example is now encoded in rdf and available in the document.

  6. Provenance Model Document

    Nothing specific to report on. Members are invited to raise issues, which will determine the focus of the next iteration.

14:44:19 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-prov-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-prov-irc

14:44:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:44:23 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be

14:44:23 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

14:44:24 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV

Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV

14:44:24 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:44:24 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 16 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 16 minutes

14:44:24 <trackbot> Date: 25 August 2011
14:44:40 <Luc> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.08.25
14:44:50 <Luc> Chair: Luc Moreau
14:44:58 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public

14:52:07 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

(No events recorded for 7 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

14:52:14 <Zakim> +??P48

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P48

14:52:26 <pgroth> zakim, ??P48 is me

Paul Groth: zakim, ??P48 is me

14:52:26 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it

14:55:54 <Zakim> +Luc

Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc

14:56:24 <Luc> zakim, who is here?

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here?

14:56:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, Luc

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, Luc

14:56:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, Vinh, MacTed, jorn, sandro, edsu, stain, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, Vinh, MacTed, jorn, sandro, edsu, stain, trackbot

14:59:08 <Zakim> +Vinh

Zakim IRC Bot: +Vinh

15:00:14 <Luc> zakim, who is here?

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here?

15:00:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, Luc, Vinh

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, Luc, Vinh

15:00:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see Helena, GK_, edoardo, pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, Vinh, MacTed, jorn, sandro, edsu, stain, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Helena, GK_, edoardo, pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, Vinh, MacTed, jorn, sandro, edsu, stain, trackbot

15:00:36 <Zakim> +??P57

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P57

15:00:52 <Zakim> +Curt

Zakim IRC Bot: +Curt

15:01:35 <pgroth> scribe?

Paul Groth: scribe?

15:02:17 <pgroth> Zakim, who is one the phone?

Paul Groth: Zakim, who is one the phone?

15:02:32 <Luc> scribe: pgroth

(Scribe set to Paul Groth)

15:02:38 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, pgroth.

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, pgroth.

15:02:46 <pgroth> zakim, who is here?

zakim, who is here?

15:03:06 <pgroth> scribe: pgroth
15:03:11 <Zakim> +satya

Zakim IRC Bot: +satya

15:03:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, Luc, Vinh, ??P57, Curt, satya

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, Luc, Vinh, ??P57, Curt, satya

15:04:01 <Luc> TOPIC: Admin

1. Admin

Summary: Last week's minutes were approved and actions closed. The co-chairs are planning to identify a suitable time and location for F2F2, early in the new year. Participants are invited to suggest names for the standard, in view of resolution in September.

<luc>Summary: Last week's minutes were approved and actions closed. The co-chairs are planning to identify a suitable time and location for F2F2, early in the new year.  Participants are invited to suggest names for the standard, in view of resolution in September.
15:03:17 <pgroth> luc overviewing the agenda

luc overviewing the agenda

15:03:37 <Luc> PROPOSED: to accept the minutes of Aug 18 telecon

PROPOSED: to accept the minutes of Aug 18 telecon

15:03:42 <satya> +1

Satya Sahoo: +1

15:03:51 <Zakim> +??P64

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P64

15:03:52 <edoardo> +1

Edoardo Pignotti: +1

15:03:52 <Curt> +1

Curt Tilmes: +1

15:03:53 <Helena> +1

Helena Deus: +1

15:03:58 <dcorsar> +1

David Corsar: +1

15:04:04 <StephenCresswell> +1

Stephen Cresswell: +1

15:04:12 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1

15:04:15 <smiles> +1

Simon Miles: +1

15:04:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see smiles, khalidbelhajjame, satya, yogesh, Curt, Helena, GK_, edoardo, pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, Vinh, MacTed, jorn, sandro, edsu, stain, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see smiles, khalidbelhajjame, satya, yogesh, Curt, Helena, GK_, edoardo, pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, Vinh, MacTed, jorn, sandro, edsu, stain, trackbot

15:04:44 <Luc>  ACCEPTED: the minutes of Aug 18 telecon

Luc Moreau: ACCEPTED: the minutes of Aug 18 telecon

15:05:01 <pgroth> reviewing the action items

reviewing the action items

15:05:08 <Zakim> +??P61

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P61

15:05:09 <pgroth> luc still has an open action

luc still has an open action

15:05:22 <khalidbelhajjame> zakim, ??P61 is me

Khalid Belhajjame: zakim, ??P61 is me

15:05:23 <Zakim> +??P66

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P66

15:05:29 <Zakim> + +44.789.470.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.789.470.aaaa

15:05:30 <pgroth> luc: discussing a potential f2f

Luc Moreau: discussing a potential f2f

15:05:45 <pgroth> luc: initial discussions about f2f at iswc

Luc Moreau: initial discussions about f2f at iswc

15:05:47 <Zakim> +??P11

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11

15:05:53 <Zakim> -??P61

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P61

15:05:59 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:06:10 <pgroth> luc: but probably not good because of current work on various drafts

Luc Moreau: but probably not good because of current work on various drafts

15:06:11 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here?

15:06:21 <pgroth> luc: chairs will propose a time in the new year 2012

Luc Moreau: chairs will propose a time in the new year 2012

15:06:27 <Zakim> +??P6

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P6

15:06:38 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

15:06:38 <jorn> zakim, ??p6 is me

Jörn Hees: zakim, ??p6 is me

15:06:38 <pgroth> luc: discussing the name of the standard

Luc Moreau: discussing the name of the standard

15:06:39 <Zakim> I already had ??P61 as ??P61, khalidbelhajjame

Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P61 as ??P61, khalidbelhajjame

15:06:41 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

15:06:41 <MacTed> zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: zakim, mute me

15:06:48 <pgroth> luc: please update the suggestions

Luc Moreau: please update the suggestions

15:06:56 <Zakim> +Yogesh

Zakim IRC Bot: +Yogesh

15:07:03 <Zakim> +Yolanda

Zakim IRC Bot: +Yolanda

15:07:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, Luc, Vinh, ??P57, Curt, satya, ??P64, ??P66, +44.789.470.aaaa, ??P11, ??P6, OpenLink_Software, Yogesh, Yolanda

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, Luc, Vinh, ??P57, Curt, satya, ??P64, ??P66, +44.789.470.aaaa, ??P11, ??P6, OpenLink_Software, Yogesh, Yolanda

15:07:05 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:07:09 <pgroth> luc: agenda item next week on the name of the standard

Luc Moreau: agenda item next week on the name of the standard

15:07:24 <Zakim> +??P28

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P28

15:07:27 <Zakim> I already had ??P6 as ??P6, jorn

Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P6 as ??P6, jorn

15:07:28 <pgroth> luc: please volunteer for scribing:

Luc Moreau: please volunteer for scribing:

15:07:29 <Luc> Topic: Provenance Implementation and Test Cases

2. Provenance Implementation and Test Cases

Summary: No further feedback was received. The questionnaire is now going to be rolled out.

<Luc>Summary: No further feedback was received. The questionnaire is now going to be rolled out.
15:07:33 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it

15:07:37 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

15:07:49 <pgroth> luc: helena giving update on the questionnaire

Luc Moreau: helena giving update on the questionnaire

15:07:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see dcorsar, StephenCresswell, smiles, khalidbelhajjame, satya, Curt, Helena, GK_, edoardo, pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, Vinh, MacTed, jorn, sandro, edsu, stain, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see dcorsar, StephenCresswell, smiles, khalidbelhajjame, satya, Curt, Helena, GK_, edoardo, pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, Vinh, MacTed, jorn, sandro, edsu, stain, trackbot

15:08:04 <pgroth> luc: are you ready to role out the questionnaire

Luc Moreau: are you ready to role out the questionnaire

15:08:07 <pgroth> helena: yes

Helena Deus: yes

15:08:18 <Zakim> +??P31

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P31

15:08:25 <Zakim> + +1.509.375.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.509.375.aabb

15:08:30 <pgroth> luc: including already populating the questionnaire?

Luc Moreau: including already populating the questionnaire?

15:08:46 <pgroth> helena: happy with the current questionanaire

Helena Deus: happy with the current questionanaire

15:08:47 <Luc> Topic: Named graphs requirements

3. Named graphs requirements

Summary: The RDF-WG has approached the co-chairs to set up a joint teleconference, in which PROV-WG requirements for RDF Named Graphs are being discussed. Satya is setting up a page on the wiki. Members are invited to express their views on what requirements are.

<Luc>Summary: The RDF-WG has approached the co-chairs to set up a joint teleconference, in which PROV-WG requirements for RDF Named Graphs are being discussed. Satya is setting up a page on the wiki. Members are invited to express their views on what requirements are.
15:08:51 <Zakim> -Yogesh

Zakim IRC Bot: -Yogesh

15:09:02 <Zakim> +Yogesh

Zakim IRC Bot: +Yogesh

15:09:33 <pgroth> luc: paul and I were contacted by the co-chair of the w3c rdf working group

Luc Moreau: paul and I were contacted by the co-chair of the w3c rdf working group

15:09:41 <Zakim> - +44.789.470.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: - +44.789.470.aaaa

15:09:50 <pgroth> luc: ref wg would like to know what our requirements are in terms of named graphs

Luc Moreau: ref wg would like to know what our requirements are in terms of named graphs

15:09:55 <pgroth> luc: setting up a telecon

Luc Moreau: setting up a telecon

15:09:57 <pgroth> �

15:10:33 <Zakim> + +44.789.470.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.789.470.aacc

15:10:34 <pgroth> luc: going over points from guus (in the agenda)

Luc Moreau: going over points from guus (in the agenda)

15:10:44 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs/RDF-Datasets-Proposal

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs/RDF-Datasets-Proposal

15:10:53 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs-UC#Provenance_Use_Cases

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs-UC#Provenance_Use_Cases

15:11:03 <Zakim> +??P14

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14

15:11:06 <pgroth> luc: includes a link to the current thinking and use cases with respect to named graphs

Luc Moreau: includes a link to the current thinking and use cases with respect to named graphs

15:11:10 <jcheney> zakim, ??p14 is me

James Cheney: zakim, ??p14 is me

15:11:10 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jcheney; got it

15:11:24 <Zakim> + +1.915.603.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.915.603.aadd

15:11:39 <pgroth> luc: rdf-wg would really like to have specific requirements that the prov-wg has on named graphs

Luc Moreau: rdf-wg would really like to have specific requirements that the prov-wg has on named graphs

15:12:01 <pgroth> luc: this is a heads-up, who would be interested in getting involved in the discussion

Luc Moreau: this is a heads-up, who would be interested in getting involved in the discussion

15:12:26 <pgroth> luc: in particular people involved in representing the model in rdf

Luc Moreau: in particular people involved in representing the model in rdf

15:12:32 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:12:33 <satya> q+

Satya Sahoo: q+

15:12:39 <Luc> ack satya

Luc Moreau: ack satya

15:13:05 <Paulo> zakim,  aadd is me

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: zakim, aadd is me

15:13:05 <Zakim> +Paulo; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Paulo; got it

15:13:20 <pgroth> satya: are they planning to extended existing work on rdf named graphs

Satya Sahoo: are they planning to extended existing work on rdf named graphs

15:13:25 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:14:21 <pgroth> satya: in terms of representing provenance in rdf. there are other approaches in terms of contextualization, is named graphs the only approach

Satya Sahoo: in terms of representing provenance in rdf. there are other approaches in terms of contextualization, is named graphs the only approach

15:14:27 <smiles> q+

Simon Miles: q+

15:14:34 <Paulo> q+

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: q+

15:14:40 <pgroth> luc: rdf wg is chartered to do named graphs

Luc Moreau: rdf wg is chartered to do named graphs

15:15:15 <pgroth> satya: is it overall for rdf group, or just for named groups

Satya Sahoo: is it overall for rdf group, or just for named groups

15:15:23 <pgroth> luc: were approached only for named graphs

Luc Moreau: were approached only for named graphs

15:15:25 <pgroth> q+

q+

15:15:26 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:15:29 <Luc> ack smil

Luc Moreau: ack smil

15:15:47 <pgroth> smiles: suggest some requirements

Simon Miles: suggest some requirements

15:16:02 <pgroth> smiles: give the provenance of rdf based data

Simon Miles: give the provenance of rdf based data

15:16:15 <Zakim> +??P16

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P16

15:16:18 <pgroth> smiles: need to be able to say that two things have the same provenance

Simon Miles: need to be able to say that two things have the same provenance

15:16:41 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:16:41 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P16 is me

Daniel Garijo: Zakim, ??P16 is me

15:16:42 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +dgarijo; got it

15:16:46 <Luc> ack pau

Luc Moreau: ack pau

15:17:25 <Luc> paulo, isn't there an outline of specification in http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs/RDF-Datasets-Proposal?

Luc Moreau: paulo, isn't there an outline of specification in http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs/RDF-Datasets-Proposal?

15:17:26 <pgroth> paulo: in terms of formal specification, they are moving targets, even if they have one, we need more than one for the provenance solution

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: in terms of formal specification, they are moving targets, even if they have one, we need more than one for the provenance solution

15:17:50 <pgroth> paulo: the fact that we want to work with named graphs are just one of the aspects of formalizing provenance

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: the fact that we want to work with named graphs are just one of the aspects of formalizing provenance

15:18:03 <khalidbelhajjame> One of the concepts we may need RDF graph for is Provenance Container. We have not really discussed this concept in details yet, though.

Khalid Belhajjame: One of the concepts we may need RDF graph for is Provenance Container. We have not really discussed this concept in details yet, though.

15:18:24 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:18:27 <Paulo> q+

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: q+

15:18:28 <Luc> ack pgr

Luc Moreau: ack pgr

15:19:08 <Luc> ack pau

Luc Moreau: ack pau

15:19:09 <satya> pgroth: RDF WG is looking for requirements of named graphs - to help them identify their objectives

Paul Groth: RDF WG is looking for requirements of named graphs - to help them identify their objectives [ Scribe Assist by Satya Sahoo ]

15:19:11 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:19:20 <pgroth> pgroth: shaping where the rdf-wg is going on named graphs

Paul Groth: shaping where the rdf-wg is going on named graphs

15:19:50 <pgroth> paulo: assumption is that the mapping to owl, and rdf is enough in terms of formalization

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: assumption is that the mapping to owl, and rdf is enough in terms of formalization

15:20:11 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:20:16 <pgroth> paulo: not enough for the formalization

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: not enough for the formalization

15:20:52 <khalidbelhajjame> Paulo, we are investigating in the formal model task force on whether OWL is sifficient, or whether we need another language that we need to specify the semantics

Khalid Belhajjame: Paulo, we are investigating in the formal model task force on whether OWL is sifficient, or whether we need another language that we need to specify the semantics

15:21:05 <pgroth> luc: simon identified two requirements for named graphs, there's a third requirement coming from the provenance container (have asserter, maybe having signature)

Luc Moreau: simon identified two requirements for named graphs, there's a third requirement coming from the provenance container (have asserter, maybe having signature)

15:21:18 <pgroth> luc: a possibility for provenance containers is to use named graphs

Luc Moreau: a possibility for provenance containers is to use named graphs

15:21:20 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:21:35 <pgroth> luc: potentially another requirement for the rdf wg

Luc Moreau: potentially another requirement for the rdf wg

15:21:47 <pgroth> luc: start creating a wiki page for these requirements

Luc Moreau: start creating a wiki page for these requirements

15:21:50 <Zakim> -??P28

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P28

15:22:00 <satya> I will be happy to create the page

Satya Sahoo: I will be happy to create the page

15:22:02 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:22:11 <Zakim> +??P15

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15

15:22:16 <jorn> zakim, ??p15 is me

Jörn Hees: zakim, ??p15 is me

15:22:16 <Zakim> +jorn; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it

15:22:20 <smiles> yes, that's fine

Simon Miles: yes, that's fine

15:22:22 <pgroth> luc: satya will create the page

Luc Moreau: satya will create the page

15:22:25 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:22:32 <pgroth> luc: simon will write up his requirements on the page

Luc Moreau: smiles will write up his requirements on the page

15:22:39 <Luc> TOPIC: Adopting naming conventions

4. Adopting naming conventions

Summary: Four proposals were drafted in the agenda. The first three were adopted. We did not reach consensus on directionality. Furthermore, we debated the use of tense without formulating a resolution. Watch this space!

<Luc>Summary: Four proposals were drafted in the agenda. The first three were adopted. We did not reach consensus on directionality.  Furthermore, we debated the use of tense without formulating a resolution. Watch this space!
15:23:24 <pgroth> luc: i had an action to poll the group on naming conventions

Luc Moreau: i had an action to poll the group on naming conventions

15:23:49 <pgroth> luc: seems to have consensus around naming conventions (see agenda)

Luc Moreau: seems to have consensus around naming conventions (see agenda)

15:23:55 <pgroth> luc: wants feed back

Luc Moreau: wants feed back

15:24:21 <pgroth> luc: go through these conventions one by one

Luc Moreau: go through these conventions one by one

15:24:39 <pgroth> luc: process, see whether there's objection or comments

Luc Moreau: process, see whether there's objection or comments

15:24:40 <Luc> To adopt camel case notation. In OWL, classes begin with upper case, and properties begin with lower case.

Luc Moreau: To adopt camel case notation. In OWL, classes begin with upper case, and properties begin with lower case.

15:25:14 <dgarijo> +1 (I think the ontology os already using this convention)

Daniel Garijo: +1 (I think the ontology os already using this convention)

15:25:15 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:25:30 <Luc> PROPOSED: To adopt camel case notation. In OWL, classes begin with upper case, and properties begin with lower case.

PROPOSED: To adopt camel case notation. In OWL, classes begin with upper case, and properties begin with lower case.

15:25:36 <satya> +1

Satya Sahoo: +1

15:25:37 <smiles> +1

Simon Miles: +1

15:25:37 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1

15:25:38 <dcorsar> +1

David Corsar: +1

15:25:39 <jcheney> +1

James Cheney: +1

15:25:40 <jorn> +1

Jörn Hees: +1

15:25:40 <edoardo> +1

Edoardo Pignotti: +1

15:25:41 <StephenCresswell> +1

Stephen Cresswell: +1

15:25:42 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

15:25:42 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1

15:25:43 <Curt> +1

Curt Tilmes: +1

15:25:45 <Helena> +1

Helena Deus: +1

15:26:06 <Luc> ACCEPTED: To adopt camel case notation. In OWL, classes begin with upper case, and properties begin with lower case.

RESOLVED: To adopt camel case notation. In OWL, classes begin with upper case, and properties begin with lower case.

15:26:49 <pgroth> luc: moving on whether we want To express nodes in noun form

Luc Moreau: moving on whether we want To express nodes in noun form

15:27:08 <smiles> q+

Simon Miles: q+

15:27:12 <pgroth> luc: we express edges in verbal form

Luc Moreau: we express edges in verbal form

15:27:15 <Luc> ack smi

Luc Moreau: ack smi

15:27:26 <Zakim> -Paulo

Zakim IRC Bot: -Paulo

15:27:50 <pgroth> smiles: a process execution might be best described by a verb (i.e. publish), the node in a particular graph might be a verb

Simon Miles: a process execution might be best described by a verb (i.e. publish), the node in a particular graph might be a verb

15:28:08 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:28:13 <pgroth> luc: talking about the concepts in the model or classes defined in the ontology

Luc Moreau: talking about the concepts in the model or classes defined in the ontology

15:28:14 <MacTed> hasPublisher ?

Ted Thibodeau: hasPublisher ?

15:28:32 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

15:28:32 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted

15:28:46 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:29:04 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:29:04 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

15:29:05 <pgroth> MacTed: depending on what the process execution may be, you can noun things

Ted Thibodeau: depending on what the process execution may be, you can noun things

15:29:18 <Luc> PROPOSED: To express nodes in noun form

PROPOSED: To express nodes in noun form

15:29:38 <satya> +1

Satya Sahoo: +1

15:29:38 <Curt> +1

Curt Tilmes: +1

15:29:38 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1

15:29:40 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

15:29:41 <smiles> +1

Simon Miles: +1

15:29:41 <edoardo> +1

Edoardo Pignotti: +1

15:29:41 <jcheney> +1

James Cheney: +1

15:29:42 <dcorsar> +1

David Corsar: +1

15:29:43 <StephenCresswell> +1

Stephen Cresswell: +1

15:29:43 <Helena> +!

Helena Deus: +!

15:29:44 <jorn> +1

Jörn Hees: +1

15:29:47 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1

15:30:06 <Luc> ACCEPTED: To express nodes in noun form

RESOLVED: To express nodes in noun form

15:30:19 <Luc> PROPOSED: To express edges in verbal form

PROPOSED: To express edges in verbal form

15:30:21 <satya> +1

Satya Sahoo: +1

15:30:22 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1

15:30:23 <edoardo> +1

Edoardo Pignotti: +1

15:30:27 <jorn> +1

Jörn Hees: +1

15:30:27 <dcorsar> +1

David Corsar: +1

15:30:28 <Curt> +1

Curt Tilmes: +1

15:30:28 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

15:30:30 <Zakim> -Yolanda

Zakim IRC Bot: -Yolanda

15:30:32 <smiles> +1

Simon Miles: +1

15:30:35 <StephenCresswell> +1

Stephen Cresswell: +1

15:30:35 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1

15:30:37 <jcheney> +1

James Cheney: +1

15:30:44 <Luc> ACCEPTED: To express edges in verbal form

RESOLVED: To express edges in verbal form

15:30:53 <dgarijo> Luc, is Ralph here? He was the one that rose all the issues

Daniel Garijo: Luc, is Ralph here? He was the one that rose all the issues

15:31:12 <Zakim> +Yolanda

Zakim IRC Bot: +Yolanda

15:31:13 <dgarijo> ok

Daniel Garijo: ok

15:31:28 <pgroth> luc: ralph is not around but there's nothing we can do

Luc Moreau: ralph is not around but there's nothing we can do

15:32:00 <pgroth> luc: introducing the edge directionality

Luc Moreau: introducing the edge directionality

15:32:16 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:32:24 <pgroth> luc: this directionality may be best expressed by pointing towards the past

Luc Moreau: this directionality may be best expressed by pointing towards the past

15:32:30 <pgroth> luc: asks for feedback

Luc Moreau: asks for feedback

15:32:34 <dgarijo> +q

Daniel Garijo: +q

15:32:43 <pgroth> luc: asks satya specifically, are you happy?

Luc Moreau: asks satya specifically, are you happy?

15:33:16 <pgroth> luc: satya are you happy with your edges point towards the past

Luc Moreau: satya are you happy with your edges point towards the past

15:33:23 <pgroth> satya: what do you mean?

Satya Sahoo: what do you mean?

15:33:38 <khalidbelhajjame> entity <- uses--process execution

Khalid Belhajjame: entity <- uses--process execution

15:34:05 <jorn> example\: e2 is derived from e1, then e2 is the most recent entity and e1 is older, so edge points to past

Jörn Hees: example\: e2 is derived from e1, then e2 is the most recent entity and e1 is older, so edge points to past

15:34:06 <pgroth> luc: giving examples of the possibilities

Luc Moreau: giving examples of the possibilities

15:34:26 <MacTed> process takesInput foo

Ted Thibodeau: process takesInput foo

15:34:26 <MacTed> process hasOutput bar

Ted Thibodeau: process hasOutput bar

15:35:05 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

15:35:05 <MacTed> q+

Ted Thibodeau: q+

15:35:05 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted

15:35:35 <pgroth> luc: not discussing ordering of events

Luc Moreau: not discussing ordering of events

15:35:58 <pgroth> luc: as designers of the model we have the choice of expressing the edges in different ways

Luc Moreau: as designers of the model we have the choice of expressing the edges in different ways

15:36:03 <Zakim> +Paulo

Zakim IRC Bot: +Paulo

15:36:05 <pgroth> luc: proposing to adopt a convention

Luc Moreau: proposing to adopt a convention

15:36:07 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:36:30 <pgroth> satya: we had the discussion in the formal model task group

Satya Sahoo: we had the discussion in the formal model task group

15:37:00 <pgroth> satya: from an ontology model perspective it doesn't matter, just a matter of style

Satya Sahoo: from an ontology model perspective it doesn't matter, just a matter of style

15:37:38 <Zakim> -jorn

Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn

15:37:49 <Zakim> +??P15

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15

15:37:54 <pgroth> dgarijo: happy with everything in the past

Daniel Garijo: happy with everything in the past

15:38:05 <Luc> ack dgar

Luc Moreau: ack dgar

15:38:19 <khalidbelhajjame> +q

Khalid Belhajjame: +q

15:38:54 <pgroth> luc: not all edges should point to the past

Luc Moreau: not all edges should point to the past

15:39:07 <pgroth> luc: only for edges that have an event ordering

Luc Moreau: only for edges that have an event ordering

15:39:17 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:39:24 <pgroth> luc: currently, definition of hasParticipant does not imply an event ordering

Luc Moreau: currently, definition of hasParticipant does not imply an event ordering

15:39:42 <Luc> ack mac

Luc Moreau: ack mac

15:39:45 <StephenCresswell> The ontology can define the edges in both direction (pairs of mutually inverse properties), and let people use which they find natural in their application.

Stephen Cresswell: The ontology can define the edges in both direction (pairs of mutually inverse properties), and let people use which they find natural in their application.

15:39:59 <pgroth> MacTed: is there a link to the event ordering definition

Ted Thibodeau: is there a link to the event ordering definition

15:40:00 <satya> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html

Satya Sahoo: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html

15:40:25 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html#concept-Use

Luc Moreau: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html#concept-Use

15:40:26 <pgroth> MacTed: i'm not getting a firm understanding of what is meant by the proposal

Ted Thibodeau: i'm not getting a firm understanding of what is meant by the proposal

15:41:01 <pgroth> Luc: explaining an example

Luc Moreau: explaining an example

15:41:58 <khalidbelhajjame> Mac, he possibilities we are discussing are: entity <--uses---process execution and entity ---is used by --> process execution. In the first, the edges point to the past.

Khalid Belhajjame: Mac, he possibilities we are discussing are: entity <--uses---process execution and entity ---is used by --> process execution. In the first, the edges point to the past.

15:42:24 <pgroth> MacTed: there are two time frames, saying both of those is useful

Ted Thibodeau: there are two time frames, saying both of those is useful

15:42:38 <jorn> Luc's example: process generates output vs. output is generated by process

Jörn Hees: Luc's example: process generates output vs. output is generated by process

15:42:42 <pgroth> luc: only one of them is defined in the model

Luc Moreau: only one of them is defined in the model

15:42:44 <smiles> I think the case for future-to-past directionality (as proposed) is clearest where provenance is distributed. If I have created a new entity, for example, then what I can link it to is other entities which already exist, but not to things which don't yet exist. So the new entity is the *subject* of what I'm asserting, the older entity is the *object*.

Simon Miles: I think the case for future-to-past directionality (as proposed) is clearest where provenance is distributed. If I have created a new entity, for example, then what I can link it to is other entities which already exist, but not to things which don't yet exist. So the new entity is the *subject* of what I'm asserting, the older entity is the *object*.

15:42:59 <pgroth> Luc: useful to have a convention

Luc Moreau: useful to have a convention

15:43:19 <pgroth> MacTed: this is a question for reasoning edges to deal with their inverse

Ted Thibodeau: this is a question for reasoning edges to deal with their inverse

15:44:10 <pgroth> MacTed: inverse properties are extremely important for modeling

Ted Thibodeau: inverse properties are extremely important for modeling

15:44:15 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:44:46 <pgroth> Satya: this can be done in the ontology

Satya Sahoo: this can be done in the ontology

15:45:24 <pgroth> Luc: Ted would like to see the inverse properties expressed in the model as well

Luc Moreau: Ted would like to see the inverse properties expressed in the model as well

15:45:34 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:45:35 <pgroth> Luc: do we have consensus

Luc Moreau: do we have consensus

15:45:38 <pgroth> q+

q+

15:45:45 <Zakim> -Vinh

Zakim IRC Bot: -Vinh

15:46:00 <MacTed> ISSUE: express inverse relationships in Provenance Model as well as ontology

ISSUE: express inverse relationships in Provenance Model as well as ontology

15:46:00 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-83 - Express inverse relationships in Provenance Model as well as ontology ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/83/edit .

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ISSUE-83 - Express inverse relationships in Provenance Model as well as ontology ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/83/edit .

15:46:16 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:46:21 <Luc> ack khal

Luc Moreau: ack khal

15:46:39 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

15:46:51 <satya> As part of the formal model discussion, we are enumerating the list of possible properties - I invite Ted to add his proposal to the ontology wiki: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology

Satya Sahoo: As part of the formal model discussion, we are enumerating the list of possible properties - I invite Ted to add his proposal to the ontology wiki: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology

15:46:54 <Luc> why not define them as "short-cut/extensions"

Luc Moreau: why not define them as "short-cut/extensions"

15:48:10 <pgroth> luc: is it a set of properties defined in the model

Luc Moreau: is it a set of properties defined in the model

15:48:35 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:48:44 <Zakim> -??P57

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P57

15:49:04 <Zakim> - +1.509.375.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.509.375.aabb

15:50:02 <Luc> proposed: make a set of edges consistent with respect to directionality

PROPOSED: make a set of edges consistent with respect to directionality

15:50:16 <jorn> q+ to mention that creating two ways of expressing one things always needs reasoning... problematic with masses of linked data

Jörn Hees: q+ to mention that creating two ways of expressing one things always needs reasoning... problematic with masses of linked data

15:50:38 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:50:51 <Luc> ack jorn

Luc Moreau: ack jorn

15:50:51 <Zakim> jorn, you wanted to mention that creating two ways of expressing one things always needs reasoning... problematic with masses of linked data

Zakim IRC Bot: jorn, you wanted to mention that creating two ways of expressing one things always needs reasoning... problematic with masses of linked data

15:51:19 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:51:20 <pgroth> jorn: maybe problematic because you would always have to turn on reasoning

Jörn Hees: maybe problematic because you would always have to turn on reasoning

15:51:38 <pgroth> MacTed: definitely not a should

Ted Thibodeau: definitely not a should

15:52:53 <pgroth> luc: it's important to right simple queries that let's us go into the past

Luc Moreau: it's important to right simple queries that let's us go into the past

15:53:02 <pgroth> MacTed: you're looking at the wrong place

Ted Thibodeau: you're looking at the wrong place

15:53:10 <pgroth> MacTed: simple queries are not ruled out

Ted Thibodeau: simple queries are not ruled out

15:53:17 <Zakim> -??P15

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P15

15:53:29 <Zakim> +??P15

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15

15:53:29 <pgroth> MacTed: inverse properties are going to exisit

Ted Thibodeau: inverse properties are going to exisit

15:53:36 <jorn> zakim, ??p15 is me

Jörn Hees: zakim, ??p15 is me

15:53:36 <Zakim> +jorn; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it

15:54:06 <pgroth> Luc: what are the relations pointing to the future and to the past?

Luc Moreau: what are the relations pointing to the future and to the past?

15:54:15 <pgroth> MacTed: you want both

Ted Thibodeau: you want both

15:55:12 <pgroth> Luc: moving on from these issue because there is no consensus

Luc Moreau: moving on from these issue because there is no consensus

15:55:43 <pgroth> Luc: no stylistic constraints in how we write edge directions

Luc Moreau: no stylistic constraints in how we write edge directions

15:55:50 <pgroth> Luc: dropped issue

Luc Moreau: dropped issue

15:56:16 <pgroth> Luc: moving on to the debate around past tense verses future tense

Luc Moreau: moving on to the debate around past tense verses future tense

15:56:21 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:56:23 <pgroth> Luc: should be consistent

Luc Moreau: should be consistent

15:56:33 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:56:34 <pgroth> MacTed: missing temporality

Ted Thibodeau: missing temporality

15:56:40 <jcheney> q+

James Cheney: q+

15:56:49 <smiles> q+

Simon Miles: q+

15:57:00 <dgarijo> +1 for past tense. Provenance is for describing things that have already happened

Daniel Garijo: +1 for past tense. Provenance is for describing things that have already happened

15:57:00 <pgroth> MacTed: all kinds of temporality that might be of interest

Ted Thibodeau: all kinds of temporality that might be of interest

15:57:13 <jcheney> q-

James Cheney: q-

15:57:21 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:57:22 <pgroth> Luc: we are only talking about things in the past

Luc Moreau: we are only talking about things in the past

15:57:28 <Luc> ack smiles

Luc Moreau: ack smiles

15:57:29 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:57:39 <satya> q+

Satya Sahoo: q+

15:57:44 <pgroth> smiles: don't want future tense

Simon Miles: don't want future tense

15:58:00 <pgroth> s/simon/smiles
15:58:08 <Luc> ack sat

Luc Moreau: ack sat

15:58:25 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:58:56 <pgroth> satya: bringing of the issue of the current

Satya Sahoo: bringing of the issue of the current

15:59:28 <pgroth> satya: is it past perfect or continuous

Satya Sahoo: is it past perfect or continuous

15:59:37 <khalidbelhajjame> +q

Khalid Belhajjame: +q

15:59:49 <jorn> there's one such process: the extraction of DBpedia from wikipedia takes a long time

Jörn Hees: there's one such process: the extraction of DBpedia from wikipedia takes a long time

15:59:52 <khalidbelhajjame> -q

Khalid Belhajjame: -q

16:00:00 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:00:01 <pgroth> luc: are you talking bout the nodes or the edges (the process execution are the present) edges represent past actions

Luc Moreau: are you talking bout the nodes or the edges (the process execution are the present) edges represent past actions

16:01:19 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:01:23 <khalidbelhajjame> Sorry, will need to leave, I have another telecon

Khalid Belhajjame: Sorry, will need to leave, I have another telecon

16:01:25 <Zakim> - +44.789.470.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: - +44.789.470.aacc

16:01:26 <pgroth> satya: using past perfect might not be enough because of continuous things

Satya Sahoo: using past perfect might not be enough because of continuous things

16:01:34 <Zakim> -??P6

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P6

16:01:56 <pgroth> q+

q+

16:01:57 <smiles> @satya I think there are edge cases where assertions may be about things ongoing, but I argue consistent past tense just makes things simple and clear for general intended use

Simon Miles: @satya I think there are edge cases where assertions may be about things ongoing, but I argue consistent past tense just makes things simple and clear for general intended use

16:02:06 <satya> +1 for past tense (not sure about past perfect or continous)

Satya Sahoo: +1 for past tense (not sure about past perfect or continous)

16:02:47 <dgarijo> @satya: you are not sure about isGeneratedBy vs wasGeneratedBy, right?

Daniel Garijo: @satya: you are not sure about isGeneratedBy vs wasGeneratedBy, right?

16:03:01 <Curt> q+

Curt Tilmes: q+

16:03:07 <pgroth> ack pgroth

ack pgroth

16:03:21 <Luc> ack curt

Luc Moreau: ack curt

16:03:27 <satya> @Daniel:  no I vote for "was"

Satya Sahoo: @Daniel: no I vote for "was"

16:03:57 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:04:04 <pgroth> q+

q+

16:04:11 <Luc> ack pgro

Luc Moreau: ack pgro

16:04:14 <MacTed> verbal expression does not require "to be"

Ted Thibodeau: verbal expression does not require "to be"

16:04:25 <MacTed> (is, was, will be, has been)

Ted Thibodeau: (is, was, will be, has been)

16:04:32 <satya> q+

Satya Sahoo: q+

16:04:40 <Luc> ack satya

Luc Moreau: ack satya

16:04:51 <jorn> isn't this about was generating vs. generated

Jörn Hees: isn't this about was generating vs. generated

16:05:04 <MacTed> Produces, isProducedBy

Ted Thibodeau: Produces, isProducedBy

16:05:18 <jorn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_progressive

Jörn Hees: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_progressive

16:05:24 <MacTed> participation is linguistic

Ted Thibodeau: participation is linguistic

16:05:52 <Luc> e.g., uses, isControlledBy, isComplementOf

Luc Moreau: e.g., uses, isControlledBy, isComplementOf

16:05:53 <jorn> resp. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_tense

Jörn Hees: resp. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_tense

16:06:13 <pgroth> but you put uses

but you put uses

16:06:18 <MacTed> isUsedBy ?

Ted Thibodeau: isUsedBy ?

16:06:24 <pgroth> luc: do we need is, was in the names

Luc Moreau: do we need is, was in the names

16:06:38 <Luc> TOPIC: Provenance Ontology

5. Provenance Ontology

Summary: Satya reported on progress on the ontology. Focus is on working on the formal model document, the owl file will be updated later. The file example is now encoded in rdf and available in the document.

<luc>Summary: Satya reported on progress on the ontology. Focus is on working on the formal model document, the owl file will be updated later. The file example is now encoded in rdf and available in the document.
16:06:46 <pgroth> luc: update the status

Luc Moreau: update the status

16:06:52 <satya> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/ontology/ProvenanceFormalModel.html

Satya Sahoo: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/ontology/ProvenanceFormalModel.html

16:07:03 <pgroth> luc: is there anything in the model that is blocking progression?

Luc Moreau: is there anything in the model that is blocking progression?

16:07:08 <pgroth> satya: giving an update

Satya Sahoo: giving an update

16:07:18 <pgroth> satya: invites people to go through the encoding

Satya Sahoo: invites people to go through the encoding

16:08:06 <pgroth> satya: what's holding up is that we don't understand the definitions

Satya Sahoo: what's holding up is that we don't understand the definitions

16:08:25 <pgroth> satya: the scope is often not clear from the model

Satya Sahoo: the scope is often not clear from the model

16:08:31 <Zakim> -Paulo

Zakim IRC Bot: -Paulo

16:08:50 <pgroth> satya: there is a gap in understanding of some concepts in particular roles

Satya Sahoo: there is a gap in understanding of some concepts in particular roles

16:08:57 <Zakim> -jorn

Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn

16:09:16 <Luc> satya, where is the example you referred to? in the document?

Luc Moreau: satya, where is the example you referred to? in the document?

16:09:20 <pgroth> satya: need very well defined domains and ranges

Satya Sahoo: need very well defined domains and ranges

16:09:51 <pgroth> satya: the approach we are taking is updating the html document and leaving the owl file until later

Satya Sahoo: the approach we are taking is updating the html document and leaving the owl file until later

16:10:56 <dgarijo> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology#Visualization_of_the_RDF_graph

Daniel Garijo: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology#Visualization_of_the_RDF_graph

16:11:44 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:12:23 <Luc> TOPIC: Provenance Model Document

6. Provenance Model Document

Summary: Nothing specific to report on. Members are invited to raise issues, which will determine the focus of the next iteration.

<Luc>Summary: Nothing specific to report on. Members are invited to raise issues, which will determine the focus of the next iteration.
16:12:43 <pgroth> Luc: nothing specific to report on today

Luc Moreau: nothing specific to report on today

16:13:09 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:13:29 <Zakim> -Yolanda

Zakim IRC Bot: -Yolanda

16:13:31 <Zakim> -pgroth

Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth

16:13:31 <Zakim> -??P66

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P66

16:13:33 <Zakim> -satya

Zakim IRC Bot: -satya

16:13:33 <Zakim> -dgarijo

Zakim IRC Bot: -dgarijo

16:13:34 <Zakim> -jcheney

Zakim IRC Bot: -jcheney

16:13:35 <Zakim> -MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed

16:13:36 <Zakim> -Luc

Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc

16:13:37 <Zakim> -Yogesh

Zakim IRC Bot: -Yogesh

16:13:43 <Zakim> -??P31

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P31

16:13:44 <Zakim> -??P11

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P11

16:13:47 <Zakim> -??P64

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P64

16:27:44 <Zakim> -Curt

(No events recorded for 13 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: -Curt

16:27:45 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended

16:27:47 <Zakim> Attendees were pgroth, Luc, Vinh, Curt, satya, +44.789.470.aaaa, Yogesh, Yolanda, MacTed, +1.509.375.aabb, +44.789.470.aacc, jcheney, +1.915.603.aadd, Paulo, dgarijo, jorn

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were pgroth, Luc, Vinh, Curt, satya, +44.789.470.aaaa, Yogesh, Yolanda, MacTed, +1.509.375.aabb, +44.789.470.aacc, jcheney, +1.915.603.aadd, Paulo, dgarijo, jorn



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