<sandro> ScribeNick: baojie
(Scribe set to Jie Bao)
<sandro> Present: Sandro, ruttenberg, Evan_Wallace, baojie, msmith, MarkusK, Ivan, IanH, mschneid, bmotik, zimmer, Zhe, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Achille
13:02:18 <baojie> Topic: Admin
13:02:18 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
13:02:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, alanr, Evan_Wallace, IanH, baojie, msmith, MarkusK_, Ivan, ??P1
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Sandro, alanr, Evan_Wallace, IanH, baojie, msmith, MarkusK_, Ivan, ??P1 ←
13:02:21 <Zakim> On IRC I see msmith, MarkusK_, IanH, Zakim, ewallace, schneid, bmotik, alanr, ivan, zimmer, baojie, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see msmith, MarkusK_, IanH, Zakim, ewallace, schneid, bmotik, alanr, ivan, zimmer, baojie, sandro, trackbot ←
13:03:32 <baojie> roll call
roll call ←
13:03:58 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
13:03:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, alanr, Evan_Wallace, IanH, baojie, msmith, MarkusK_, Ivan, schneid (muted), bmotik (muted), +03539149aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Sandro, alanr, Evan_Wallace, IanH, baojie, msmith, MarkusK_, Ivan, schneid (muted), bmotik (muted), +03539149aacc ←
13:04:00 <Zakim> On IRC I see msmith, MarkusK_, IanH, Zakim, ewallace, schneid, bmotik, alanr, ivan, zimmer, baojie, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see msmith, MarkusK_, IanH, Zakim, ewallace, schneid, bmotik, alanr, ivan, zimmer, baojie, sandro, trackbot ←
13:04:28 <baojie> subtopic: Agenda amendments?
13:04:29 <baojie> no
no ←
13:05:45 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
13:05:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, alanr, Evan_Wallace, IanH, baojie, msmith (muted), MarkusK_, Ivan, schneid (muted), bmotik (muted), zimmer, Zhe
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Sandro, alanr, Evan_Wallace, IanH, baojie, msmith (muted), MarkusK_, Ivan, schneid (muted), bmotik (muted), zimmer, Zhe ←
13:05:47 <Zakim> On IRC I see Zhe, msmith, MarkusK_, IanH, Zakim, ewallace, schneid, bmotik, alanr, ivan, zimmer, baojie, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Zhe, msmith, MarkusK_, IanH, Zakim, ewallace, schneid, bmotik, alanr, ivan, zimmer, baojie, sandro, trackbot ←
<baojie> subtopic: Previous Minutes
13:06:08 <baojie> PROPOSED: Accept Previous Minutes (1 July)
PROPOSED: Accept Previous Minutes (1 July) ←
13:06:16 <alanr> I looked
Alan Ruttenberg: I looked ←
13:06:19 <alanr> ok for me
Alan Ruttenberg: ok for me ←
13:06:25 <baojie> Ian: i think it is in good shape
Ian Horrocks: i think it is in good shape ←
13:06:26 <zimmer> looks good
Antoine Zimmermann: looks good ←
13:06:31 <ewallace> I thought they were fine. Of course.
Evan Wallace: I thought they were fine. Of course. ←
13:06:43 <baojie> ... ok, passed
... ok, passed ←
13:07:06 <IanH> RESOLVED: accept previous minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2009-07-01
RESOLVED: accept previous minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2009-07-01 ←
13:07:31 <baojie> Subtopic: Action items status
<baojie> Ian: there is no pending review actions.
Ian Horrocks: there is no pending review actions. ←
13:07:48 <baojie> Subsubtopic: Action 331
<baojie> Action 331: About 1 month out to do accessibility audit / Bijan Parsia
ACTION-331: About 1 month out to do accessibility audit / Bijan Parsia ←
13:08:11 <baojie> Ian: how urgent it is
Ian Horrocks: how urgent it is ←
13:08:16 <baojie> Sandro: it is urgent
Sandro Hawke: it is urgent ←
13:08:17 <schneid> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
13:08:20 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
13:08:20 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted ←
13:08:26 <IanH> ack schneid
Ian Horrocks: ack schneid ←
13:08:30 <baojie> Ian: I will get Bijan acts on this
Ian Horrocks: I will get Bijan acts on this ←
13:08:36 <ewallace> Sandro: I'd say we have to have it done by the next publication.
Sandro Hawke: I'd say we have to have it done by the next publication. [ Scribe Assist by Evan Wallace ] ←
13:08:46 <baojie> schneid: what the problem is?
Michael Schneider: what the problem is? ←
13:09:14 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
13:09:14 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
13:09:59 <alanr> I sent him a quick skype note, but am not sure he is on line now
Alan Ruttenberg: I sent him a quick skype note, but am not sure he is on line now ←
13:10:10 <ewallace> Sandro: the main thing is that there must be alt text for any figures.
Sandro Hawke: the main thing is that there must be alt text for any figures. [ Scribe Assist by Evan Wallace ] ←
13:10:14 <sandro> sandro: the accessibility audit is to make sure that all our documents are appropriately accessible to people with various disabilities, eg with alt text on images, etc.
Sandro Hawke: the accessibility audit is to make sure that all our documents are appropriately accessible to people with various disabilities, eg with alt text on images, etc. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
13:10:35 <bmotik> ZAkim, unmute me
Boris Motik: ZAkim, unmute me ←
13:10:35 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
13:10:37 <sandro> action: ian to push along the accessibility audit of our documents
ACTION: ian to push along the accessibility audit of our documents ←
13:10:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-345 - Push along the accessibility audit of our documents [on Ian Horrocks - due 2009-07-22].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-345 - Push along the accessibility audit of our documents [on Ian Horrocks - due 2009-07-22]. ←
13:10:48 <baojie> Action: on Ian to ping Bijan or somebody else for solution to ACTION-331 (accessibility audit)
ACTION: on Ian to ping Bijan or somebody else for solution to ACTION-331 (accessibility audit) ←
13:10:48 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - on
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - on ←
13:10:56 <sandro> I got in baojie
Sandro Hawke: I got in baojie ←
13:11:01 <sandro> I mean, "I got it"
Sandro Hawke: I mean, "I got it" ←
13:11:01 <baojie> Action: Ian to ping Bijan or somebody else for solution to ACTION-331 (accessibility audit)
ACTION: Ian to ping Bijan or somebody else for solution to ACTION-331 (accessibility audit) ←
13:11:01 <trackbot> Created ACTION-346 - Ping Bijan or somebody else for solution to ACTION-331 (accessibility audit) [on Ian Horrocks - due 2009-07-22].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-346 - Ping Bijan or somebody else for solution to ACTION-331 (accessibility audit) [on Ian Horrocks - due 2009-07-22]. ←
13:11:30 <baojie> Ian: Action 344 Clarity the description of datatype maps in Syntax and Conformance / Boris Motik
Ian Horrocks: ACTION-344 Clarity the description of datatype maps in Syntax and Conformance / Boris Motik ←
<baojie> Subsubtopic: Action 344
<baojie> Action 344: Clarity the description of datatype maps in Syntax and Conformance / Boris Motik
ACTION-344: Clarity the description of datatype maps in Syntax and Conformance / Boris Motik ←
<baojie> bmotik: I have done something but haven't sent email yet.
Boris Motik: I have done something but haven't sent email yet. ←
13:11:45 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
13:11:45 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
13:12:01 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
13:12:01 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted ←
13:12:06 <baojie> Ian: Boris, you may send an email and let's talk offline
Ian Horrocks: Boris, you may send an email and let's talk offline ←
13:12:21 <schneid> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
13:12:24 <baojie> topic: Issues/comments
13:12:24 <baojie> subtopic: Michael Schneider's proposal to make certain ontology properties of OWL 2 Full into annotation properties
13:12:46 <baojie> schneid: there are several ontology properties in OWL 2 Full
Michael Schneider: there are several ontology properties in OWL 2 Full ←
13:13:03 <baojie> ... that are annotation properties in the structural spec
... that are annotation properties in the structural spec ←
13:13:31 <baojie> ... ontology properties are the ones map from ontologies to ontologies
... ontology properties are the ones map from ontologies to ontologies ←
13:13:46 <baojie> ... they are not annotation properties in OWL 2 DL
... they are not annotation properties in OWL 2 DL ←
13:14:07 <baojie> ... That may lead to problems in RL rules
... That may lead to problems in RL rules ←
13:15:28 <baojie> ... My proposal is to have the ontology properties be additionally annotation properties
... My proposal is to have the ontology properties be additionally annotation properties ←
13:15:53 <baojie> ... This will only change the RDF-based semantics
... This will only change the RDF-based semantics ←
13:16:11 <baojie> Ian: idea? I trust Michael
Ian Horrocks: idea? I trust Michael ←
13:16:22 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
13:16:22 <alanr> what happens if someone was querying for x ?type :OntologyProperty
Alan Ruttenberg: what happens if someone was querying for x ?type :OntologyProperty ←
13:16:26 <baojie> schneid: It is a minor change
Michael Schneider: It is a minor change ←
13:16:27 <ivan> ack schneid
Ivan Herman: ack schneid ←
13:16:29 <alanr> backwards compatibility issue?
Alan Ruttenberg: backwards compatibility issue? ←
13:16:31 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
13:16:51 <baojie> Ivan: CR is about implementation issue. I won't worry about that. Let's wait for feedback.
Ivan Herman: CR is about implementation issue. I won't worry about that. Let's wait for feedback. ←
13:17:23 <IanH> PROPOSED: make changes as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2009Jun/0095.html
PROPOSED: make changes as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2009Jun/0095.html ←
13:17:33 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
13:17:35 <ewallace> +1
Evan Wallace: +1 ←
13:17:36 <IanH> +1
Ian Horrocks: +1 ←
13:17:37 <baojie> +1
+1 ←
13:17:38 <alanr> 0
Alan Ruttenberg: 0 ←
13:17:56 <zimmer> 0
13:18:04 <MarkusK_> 0
Markus Krötzsch: 0 ←
13:18:07 <alanr> q+ to ask about backwards compatibility
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask about backwards compatibility ←
13:18:53 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
<baojie> alanr: will there still be ontology properties?
Alan Ruttenberg: will there still be ontology properties? ←
13:18:53 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to ask about backwards compatibility
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to ask about backwards compatibility ←
13:18:58 <baojie> schneid: the changes is trivial
Michael Schneider: the changes is trivial ←
13:19:08 <baojie> ... it is a conservative change
... it is a conservative change ←
13:19:18 <alanr> ok
Alan Ruttenberg: ok ←
13:19:41 <alanr> alan changes vote to +1
Alan Ruttenberg: alan changes vote to +1 ←
13:19:53 <IanH> schneid: changes are conservative
Michael Schneider: changes are conservative [ Scribe Assist by Ian Horrocks ] ←
13:19:59 <ivan> schneid: all property that were ontology properties stay so
Michael Schneider: all property that were ontology properties stay so [ Scribe Assist by Ivan Herman ] ←
13:20:16 <ivan> ... they just get an additional annotation property typing
Ivan Herman: ... they just get an additional annotation property typing ←
13:20:25 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
13:20:33 <IanH> PROPOSED: make changes as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2009Jun/0095.html
PROPOSED: make changes as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2009Jun/0095.html ←
13:20:34 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
13:20:34 <ewallace> +1
Evan Wallace: +1 ←
13:20:36 <MarkusK_> +1 (convinced now :)
Markus Krötzsch: +1 (convinced now :) ←
13:20:37 <IanH> +1
Ian Horrocks: +1 ←
13:20:37 <Zhe> +1
13:20:37 <baojie> +1
+1 ←
13:20:38 <schneid> +1
Michael Schneider: +1 ←
13:20:39 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
13:20:44 <zimmer> +1
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 ←
13:20:48 <msmith> +1
Michael Smith: +1 ←
13:20:57 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
13:21:01 <IanH> RESOLVED: make changes as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2009Jun/0095.html
RESOLVED: make changes as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2009Jun/0095.html ←
13:21:35 <baojie> subtopic: Michael Schneider's proposal to require at least one property for key axioms
13:21:51 <baojie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2009Jul/0005.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2009Jul/0005.html ←
13:22:56 <baojie> schneid: there is no constraint on the size of the argument list of owl:hasKey
Michael Schneider: there is no constraint on the size of the argument list of owl:hasKey ←
13:23:18 <baojie> ... so it is possible to have it on an empty list of properties
... so it is possible to have it on an empty list of properties ←
13:23:25 <bmotik> And I've already fixed this
Boris Motik: And I've already fixed this ←
13:23:38 <baojie> ... my proposal is to restrict hasKey to be on at least one property
... my proposal is to restrict hasKey to be on at least one property ←
13:23:40 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
13:23:40 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
13:23:53 <baojie> Ian: it is a bug - Boris has already fixed it
Ian Horrocks: it is a bug - Boris has already fixed it ←
13:24:20 <IanH> PROPOSED: fix problem with key axioms as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2009Jul/0005.html
PROPOSED: fix problem with key axioms as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2009Jul/0005.html ←
13:24:23 <zimmer> +1
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 ←
13:24:24 <baojie> +1
+1 ←
13:24:26 <IanH> +1
Ian Horrocks: +1 ←
13:24:28 <msmith> +1
Michael Smith: +1 ←
13:24:29 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
13:24:30 <Zhe> +1
13:24:34 <MarkusK_> +1
Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←
13:24:38 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
13:24:57 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
13:25:06 <IanH> RESOLVED: fix problem with key axioms as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2009Jul/0005.html
RESOLVED: fix problem with key axioms as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2009Jul/0005.html ←
13:25:07 <schneid> +1
Michael Schneider: +1 ←
13:25:23 <baojie> subtopic: Holger Knublauch's LC Comment -- Request for OWL 2 vocabulary file
13:25:29 <baojie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-comments/2009Jul/0007.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-comments/2009Jul/0007.html ←
13:25:35 <schneid> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
13:25:40 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
13:25:40 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted ←
13:25:44 <IanH> ack schneid
Ian Horrocks: ack schneid ←
13:25:49 <baojie> Ian: he is asking for an OWL file, similar to that of OWL 1
Ian Horrocks: he is asking for an OWL file, similar to that of OWL 1 ←
13:26:45 <baojie> schneid: They need a file of axiomatic triples of OWL 2 Full which completes that of OWL 1 Full. We may add to RDF-based Semantics a section on axiomatic triples. That may also help developers.
Michael Schneider: They need a file of axiomatic triples of OWL 2 Full which completes that of OWL 1 Full. We may add to RDF-based Semantics a section on axiomatic triples. That may also help developers. ←
13:26:47 <msmith> q+ to ask if the file had any WG status in WebOnt
Michael Smith: q+ to ask if the file had any WG status in WebOnt ←
13:26:52 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:26:58 <ewallace> It's just an rdf description of the OWL2 vocabulary, like we have for OWL1, isn't it?
Evan Wallace: It's just an rdf description of the OWL2 vocabulary, like we have for OWL1, isn't it? ←
13:27:04 <schneid> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Fragments_Proposal#Theorem-PR1
Michael Schneider: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Fragments_Proposal#Theorem-PR1 ←
13:27:58 <schneid> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RDF-Based_Semantics#Appendix:_Axiomatic_Triples_.28Informative.29
Michael Schneider: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RDF-Based_Semantics#Appendix:_Axiomatic_Triples_.28Informative.29 ←
13:29:18 <baojie> schneid: We may have the RDF semantics rules explicit encoded
Michael Schneider: We may have the RDF semantics rules explicit encoded ←
13:29:28 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:29:39 <baojie> ... I can do this
... I can do this ←
13:30:04 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:30:10 <IanH> ack msmith
Ian Horrocks: ack msmith ←
13:30:10 <Zakim> msmith, you wanted to ask if the file had any WG status in WebOnt
Zakim IRC Bot: msmith, you wanted to ask if the file had any WG status in WebOnt ←
13:30:12 <alanr> zakim, what is the passcode?
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, what is the passcode? ←
13:30:12 <Zakim> the conference code is 6951 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 6951 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), alanr ←
13:30:13 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:30:24 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider
Zakim IRC Bot: +Peter_Patel-Schneider ←
13:30:26 <baojie> Mike: i don't have a problem with schneid's proposal
Michael Smith: i don't have a problem with schneid's proposal ←
13:30:35 <ewallace> owl.owl or owl.rdf?
Evan Wallace: owl.owl or owl.rdf? ←
13:30:55 <schneid> owl.owl is in the OWL Reference, so its informative I guess
Michael Schneider: owl.owl is in the OWL Reference, so its informative I guess ←
13:30:59 <baojie> Mike: just to check what WG status the owl.owl file will be. The problem is whether it will be normative or informative.
Michael Smith: just to check what WG status the owl.owl file will be. The problem is whether it will be normative or informative. ←
<baojie> Ian: We have decided earlier not to produce an owl.owl file for OWL 2, since the one for OWL 1 was not widely used. Anybody think we should have such a file for OWL 2?
Ian Horrocks: We have decided earlier not to produce an owl.owl file for OWL 2, since the one for OWL 1 was not widely used. Anybody think we should have such a file for OWL 2? ←
13:31:19 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:31:23 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
13:31:24 <ewallace> pfps Please use code OWL1 (6951) instead of
Evan Wallace: pfps Please use code OWL1 (6951) instead of ←
13:31:25 <schneid> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
13:31:26 <ewallace> "OWLWG"
Evan Wallace: "OWLWG" ←
13:31:37 <pfps> q+
13:31:37 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:31:42 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
13:33:11 <schneid> q-
Michael Schneider: q- ←
13:33:12 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:33:14 <sandro> q+
Sandro Hawke: q+ ←
13:33:22 <zimmer> ivan: the OWL uri should be dereferencable
Ivan Herman: the OWL uri should be dereferencable [ Scribe Assist by Antoine Zimmermann ] ←
13:33:23 <alanr> I see http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl.rdf
Alan Ruttenberg: I see http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl.rdf ←
13:33:30 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
13:34:05 <zimmer> ... and dereferencing to an outdated doc is maybe not a good idea
Antoine Zimmermann: ... and dereferencing to an outdated doc is maybe not a good idea ←
13:34:37 <alanr> Ivan, where is this currently served from?
Alan Ruttenberg: Ivan, where is this currently served from? ←
13:34:48 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:35:08 <IanH> pfps: doesn't want to have something that is only likely to be misunderstood
Peter Patel-Schneider: doesn't want to have something that is only likely to be misunderstood [ Scribe Assist by Ian Horrocks ] ←
13:35:33 <baojie> Ivan: there should be a file containing all OWL 2 axiomatic triples.
Ivan Herman: there should be a file containing all OWL 2 axiomatic triples. ←
13:35:54 <baojie> ivan: as schneid proposed
Ivan Herman: as schneid proposed ←
<baojie> sandro: you should provide the RDF triples in some reasonable way.
Sandro Hawke: you should provide the RDF triples in some reasonable way. ←
13:35:34 <schneid> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
13:35:40 <alanr> ah, ok at http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl# there is owl served
Alan Ruttenberg: ah, ok at http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl# there is owl served ←
13:35:44 <alanr> currently
Alan Ruttenberg: currently ←
13:35:47 <IanH> ack sandro
Ian Horrocks: ack sandro ←
13:36:04 <pfps> Umm. There are an infinite number of axiomatic triples even for RDFS.
Peter Patel-Schneider: Umm. There are an infinite number of axiomatic triples even for RDFS. ←
13:36:24 <alanr> might take a while to download ;-)
Alan Ruttenberg: might take a while to download ;-) ←
13:36:37 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:36:41 <sandro> :-) alan
Sandro Hawke: :-) alan ←
13:36:42 <IanH> ack schneid
Ian Horrocks: ack schneid ←
13:36:52 <baojie> schneid: my proposal is to the axiomatic triples explicit by ourselves
Michael Schneider: my proposal is to the axiomatic triples explicit by ourselves ←
13:37:26 <baojie> ... the RDF-based semantics gives one possible way to create it
... the RDF-based semantics gives one possible way to create it ←
13:38:22 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:38:30 <baojie> ... my prposal will not add new information to doc
... my prposal will not add new information to doc ←
13:38:59 <baojie> ... just have explicit encoding of the rdf-based semantics (axiomatic triples)
... just have explicit encoding of the rdf-based semantics (axiomatic triples) ←
13:39:18 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:39:25 <baojie> Ian: I think that's a separate issue. You are talking about a spec document
Ian Horrocks: I think that's a separate issue. You are talking about a spec document ←
13:39:29 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:39:49 <baojie> ... the others are talking about file of the OWL 2's URI
... the others are talking about file of the OWL 2's URI ←
13:39:59 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:40:31 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:40:40 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
13:40:40 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
13:40:43 <alanr> minimal dereferencable document could be a set of triples with each vocabulary term rdfs:isDefinedBy link to spec
Alan Ruttenberg: minimal dereferencable document could be a set of triples with each vocabulary term rdfs:isDefinedBy link to spec ←
13:40:58 <baojie> Ivan: my understanding is that they are the same thing. Michael's proposal is to create an RDF file of axiomatic triples.
Ivan Herman: my understanding is that they are the same thing. Michael's proposal is to create an RDF file of axiomatic triples. ←
13:41:27 <schneid> yes, this is absolutely specific to OWL 2 Full
Michael Schneider: yes, this is absolutely specific to OWL 2 Full ←
13:41:53 <baojie> Ian: I think Michael's proposal is to add something to RDF-based semantics.
Ian Horrocks: I think Michael's proposal is to add something to RDF-based semantics. ←
13:42:19 <baojie> ... and you (Ivan) think is to extract that part into a file
... and you (Ivan) think is to extract that part into a file ←
13:41:57 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:42:04 <ewallace> How is this different from what we have for OWL1 now?
Evan Wallace: How is this different from what we have for OWL1 now? ←
13:42:08 <pfps> q+
13:42:21 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
13:42:46 <baojie> pfps: the current doc is not a set of axiomatic triples
Peter Patel-Schneider: the current doc is not a set of axiomatic triples ←
13:43:03 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
13:43:04 <schneid> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
13:43:04 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:43:09 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
13:43:18 <schneid> q-
Michael Schneider: q- ←
13:43:35 <baojie> pfps: there was an RDF schema for OWL 1
Peter Patel-Schneider: there was an RDF schema for OWL 1 ←
13:43:35 <Zakim> +[IBM]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM] ←
13:43:40 <schneid> it is *extremely* incomplete
Michael Schneider: it is *extremely* incomplete ←
13:43:45 <baojie> Ian: it was incomplete, only those that can be captured in RDF.
Ian Horrocks: it was incomplete, only those that can be captured in RDF. ←
<baojie> ivan: I don't understand what Peter says.
Ivan Herman: I don't understand what Peter says. ←
<baojie> ian: what peter means is that the intention of the doc is to provide an RDF schema for the structural spec.
Ian Horrocks: what peter means is that the intention of the doc is to provide an RDF schema for the structural spec. ←
13:43:48 <Achille> Zakim, IBM is me
Achille Fokoue: Zakim, IBM is me ←
13:43:48 <Zakim> +Achille; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Achille; got it ←
13:43:49 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:43:52 <Zhe> zakim, mute me
13:43:52 <Zakim> Zhe should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Zhe should now be muted ←
13:43:52 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
13:43:53 <ivan> <rdf:Property rdf:ID="equivalentClass">
Ivan Herman: <rdf:Property rdf:ID="equivalentClass"> ←
13:43:53 <ivan> <rdfs:label>equivalentClass</rdfs:label>
Ivan Herman: <rdfs:label>equivalentClass</rdfs:label> ←
13:43:53 <ivan> <rdfs:subPropertyOf rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#subClassOf"/>
Ivan Herman: <rdfs:subPropertyOf rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#subClassOf"/> ←
13:43:53 <ivan> <rdfs:domain rdf:resource="#Class"/>
Ivan Herman: <rdfs:domain rdf:resource="#Class"/> ←
13:43:53 <ivan> <rdfs:range rdf:resource="#Class"/>
Ivan Herman: <rdfs:range rdf:resource="#Class"/> ←
13:43:54 <ivan> </rdf:Property>
Ivan Herman: </rdf:Property> ←
13:44:07 <baojie> Ivan: that's an example
Ivan Herman: that's an example ←
13:44:10 <ivan> http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#
Ivan Herman: http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl# ←
13:44:22 <baojie> ... this is that schneid will generate
... this is that schneid will generate ←
13:44:25 <schneid> these are *4* axiomatic triples
Michael Schneider: these are *4* axiomatic triples ←
13:44:51 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:44:53 <schneid> all of them match the discussion in Section 6 of the RDF-based Semantics, AFAICS
Michael Schneider: all of them match the discussion in Section 6 of the RDF-based Semantics, AFAICS ←
13:44:54 <baojie> ... I don't understand Peter
... I don't understand Peter ←
13:44:59 <pfps> There are some axiomatic triples here, but this is *not* an axiomatization of OWL. There are, as well, some non-axiomatic triples in the document.
Peter Patel-Schneider: There are some axiomatic triples here, but this is *not* an axiomatization of OWL. There are, as well, some non-axiomatic triples in the document. ←
13:45:03 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:45:06 <sandro> q+
Sandro Hawke: q+ ←
13:45:25 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:45:37 <IanH> ack sandro
Ian Horrocks: ack sandro ←
13:45:47 <pfps> There are only *3* axiomatic triples, the rdfs:label triple is not axiomatic.
Peter Patel-Schneider: There are only *3* axiomatic triples, the rdfs:label triple is not axiomatic. ←
13:45:55 <baojie> Ivan: we can't have the file unchanged using the same uri of OWL (now for OWL 1)
Ivan Herman: we can't have the file unchanged using the same uri of OWL (now for OWL 1) ←
13:46:02 <schneid> axiomatic triples are simply ground semantic conditions without a premis
Michael Schneider: axiomatic triples are simply ground semantic conditions without a premis ←
13:46:31 <schneid> the axiomatic triples of RDFS are also *not* a complete axiomatization of the RDFS semantics
Michael Schneider: the axiomatic triples of RDFS are also *not* a complete axiomatization of the RDFS semantics ←
13:46:33 <pfps> q+
13:46:42 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
13:46:57 <schneid> equivalentClass rdf:type rdf:Property :)
Michael Schneider: equivalentClass rdf:type rdf:Property :) ←
13:47:19 <IanH> sandro: could use content negotiation to serve relevant content
Sandro Hawke: could use content negotiation to serve relevant content [ Scribe Assist by Ian Horrocks ] ←
<baojie> sandro: if you ask for RDF, you get RDF, and if you ask for HTML, you get HTML. You may also ask for other things, like axiomatic rules in RIF for OWL 2 Full.
Sandro Hawke: if you ask for RDF, you get RDF, and if you ask for HTML, you get HTML. You may also ask for other things, like axiomatic rules in RIF for OWL 2 Full. ←
13:47:34 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:47:42 <pfps> q+
13:47:47 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:47:52 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
<baojie> pfps: I don't think content negotiation is a right way to go.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I don't think content negotiation is a right way to go. ←
13:47:58 <schneid> my whole proposal is only about convenience for implementers, nothing would change technically in any form (apart from that it's an informative section anyway)
Michael Schneider: my whole proposal is only about convenience for implementers, nothing would change technically in any form (apart from that it's an informative section anyway) ←
13:48:03 <alanr> q+ 2 questions: 1) What are requirements 2) Who has jurisdiction on what is served from there
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ 2 questions: 1) What are requirements 2) Who has jurisdiction on what is served from there ←
13:48:21 <alanr> q+ to ask 2 questions: 1) What are requirements 2) Who has jurisdiction on what is served from there
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask 2 questions: 1) What are requirements 2) Who has jurisdiction on what is served from there ←
13:48:26 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
<baojie> ian: I think everybody agree there should be something here, which should not be the outdated OWL file.
Ian Horrocks: I think everybody agree there should be something here, which should not be the outdated OWL file. ←
13:48:28 <baojie> pfps: I disagree. I don't think we should change the old OWL file
Peter Patel-Schneider: I disagree. I don't think we should change the old OWL file ←
13:48:34 <baojie> Ivan: I object (pfps)
Ivan Herman: I object (pfps) ←
13:48:52 <baojie> ... rdf users will dereference that uri
... rdf users will dereference that uri ←
13:49:10 <baojie> ... it is should be correct and not incomplete
... it is should be correct and not incomplete ←
13:49:36 <baojie> ... if we decide OWL 2 reuses OWL uri, then that file should be updated
... if we decide OWL 2 reuses OWL uri, then that file should be updated ←
13:49:40 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:49:48 <pfps> q+
13:50:02 <baojie> Ian: my understanding is to add more axiomatic triples to the old file
Ian Horrocks: my understanding is to add more axiomatic triples to the old file ←
13:50:08 <baojie> Ivan: yes
Ivan Herman: yes ←
13:50:20 <baojie> ... we have to make it up to date
... we have to make it up to date ←
13:50:13 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
13:50:13 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to ask 2 questions: 1) What are requirements 2) Who has jurisdiction on what is served from there
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to ask 2 questions: 1) What are requirements 2) Who has jurisdiction on what is served from there ←
13:50:15 <ewallace> I would like to see an rdfs vocabulary file for OWL 2 somewhere.
Evan Wallace: I would like to see an rdfs vocabulary file for OWL 2 somewhere. ←
13:50:47 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:50:52 <zimmer> I'm personally in favour of what Ivan says, and I guess that my institute would be in favour of it too
Antoine Zimmermann: I'm personally in favour of what Ivan says, and I guess that my institute would be in favour of it too ←
13:51:04 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:51:29 <baojie> alanr: I want to know the minimal requirement for the file and
Alan Ruttenberg: I want to know the minimal requirement for the file and ←
<baojie> ... I wonder if it is in the jurisdiction of the WG, or W3C
... I wonder if it is in the jurisdiction of the WG, or W3C ←
13:51:35 <alanr> ok
Alan Ruttenberg: ok ←
13:51:37 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
13:51:57 <IanH> sorry Peter
Ian Horrocks: sorry Peter ←
13:52:02 <IanH> You are next
Ian Horrocks: You are next ←
13:52:17 <alanr> 1) dereference to something meaningful and up to date
Alan Ruttenberg: 1) dereference to something meaningful and up to date ←
13:52:18 <baojie> Ivan: I don't have an answer to the jurisdiction question.
Ivan Herman: I don't have an answer to the jurisdiction question. ←
<baojie> ...the minimal requirement is to have it useful and up-to-date
...the minimal requirement is to have it useful and up-to-date ←
13:52:24 <alanr> 2) follow linked data practices
Alan Ruttenberg: 2) follow linked data practices ←
13:52:27 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
13:52:37 <baojie> pfps: I'm not opposed to change it
Peter Patel-Schneider: I'm not opposed to change it ←
13:52:51 <schneid> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
13:52:53 <baojie> ... I'm concerned what kind of document to put here. It provide the same kind of information against the norm work. That's not what Michael proposed to do.
... I'm concerned what kind of document to put here. It provide the same kind of information against the norm work. That's not what Michael proposed to do. ←
13:52:55 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:52:58 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
13:52:58 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted ←
13:53:04 <ewallace> What Peter suggests would make me happy.
Evan Wallace: What Peter suggests would make me happy. ←
13:53:13 <alanr> q+ why do we have to leave the document in the current form?
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ why do we have to leave the document in the current form? ←
13:53:38 <IanH> ack schneid
Ian Horrocks: ack schneid ←
13:53:49 <alanr> q+ to ask why do we have to leave the document in the current form?
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask why do we have to leave the document in the current form? ←
13:54:07 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:54:10 <baojie> Ian: Michael's proposal is to add axiomatic triples as described in RDF-based semantics rules
Ian Horrocks: Michael's proposal is to add axiomatic triples as described in RDF-based semantics rules ←
<baojie> schneid: This is really an OWL 2 Full thing, not for OWL 2 whole. The old owl.owl file is outdated. I prefer to have it replaced.
Michael Schneider: This is really an OWL 2 Full thing, not for OWL 2 whole. The old owl.owl file is outdated. I prefer to have it replaced. ←
13:54:44 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
13:54:44 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to ask why do we have to leave the document in the current form?
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to ask why do we have to leave the document in the current form? ←
<baojie> alanr: the question is whether we change the file, or to change it to adapted purposes for new requirements and practices like linked data.
Alan Ruttenberg: the question is whether we change the file, or to change it to adapted purposes for new requirements and practices like linked data. ←
<baojie> Ian: I'm not clear about the purpose. Since Holger just requests the owl file, why not just update that file.
Ian Horrocks: I'm not clear about the purpose. Since Holger just requests the owl file, why not just update that file. ←
13:54:52 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
13:54:52 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
13:55:09 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:55:26 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:55:37 <alanr> then that should be clarified
Alan Ruttenberg: then that should be clarified ←
13:55:42 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:55:47 <alanr> that's why I asked Ivan about requirements
Alan Ruttenberg: that's why I asked Ivan about requirements ←
13:56:08 <ewallace> Holger's request: I would appreciate if the OWL working group would deliver (and maintain)
Evan Wallace: Holger's request: I would appreciate if the OWL working group would deliver (and maintain) ←
13:56:10 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:56:10 <ewallace> an RDF specification of the OWL 2 vocabulary, as discussed below, in the
Evan Wallace: an RDF specification of the OWL 2 vocabulary, as discussed below, in the ←
13:56:11 <ewallace> RDF/XML exchange format.
Evan Wallace: RDF/XML exchange format. ←
13:56:15 <alanr> ivan?
Alan Ruttenberg: ivan? ←
13:56:38 <pfps> My understanding is also that Holger just wants an update of the information in the document.
Peter Patel-Schneider: My understanding is also that Holger just wants an update of the information in the document. ←
13:57:03 <baojie> Ivan: my proposal is to let Micheal to produce an rdf/xml or turtle file
Ivan Herman: my proposal is to let Micheal to produce an rdf/xml or turtle file ←
13:57:14 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:57:18 <baojie> ... and let's see what it will be
... and let's see what it will be ←
13:57:46 <baojie> ... and postpone the decision
... and postpone the decision ←
13:57:50 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:57:57 <pfps> The current document is mostly domains and ranges for the owl vocabulary.
Peter Patel-Schneider: The current document is mostly domains and ranges for the owl vocabulary. ←
13:58:06 <baojie> ... let's separate the two problems
... let's separate the two problems ←
13:58:52 <baojie> Ian: I don't think schneid's proposal is a starting point for the deferencing problem
Ian Horrocks: I don't think schneid's proposal is a starting point for the deferencing problem ←
13:59:04 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
13:59:05 <baojie> ... we may need to talk offline.
... we may need to talk offline. ←
13:59:07 <schneid> I can do this quickly
Michael Schneider: I can do this quickly ←
13:59:26 <schneid> (one could say it's editorial :)
Michael Schneider: (one could say it's editorial :) ←
13:59:30 <alanr> if there are changes then needs to be vote
Alan Ruttenberg: if there are changes then needs to be vote ←
13:59:38 <schneid> ok!
Michael Schneider: ok! ←
13:59:48 <baojie> ... schneid may add the proposed changes to the RDF-based semantics doc
... schneid may add the proposed changes to the RDF-based semantics doc ←
14:00:20 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:00:37 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:00:38 <baojie> topic: Implementation and Testing
14:00:48 <baojie> subtopic: Test suite
14:00:58 <schneid> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
14:01:02 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
14:01:02 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted ←
14:01:03 <IanH> ack schneid
Ian Horrocks: ack schneid ←
14:01:05 <baojie> Ian: Michael loaded RL test suites
Ian Horrocks: Michael loaded RL test suites ←
14:01:36 <MarkusK_> there are now 84 tests uploaded by Michael
Markus Krötzsch: there are now 84 tests uploaded by Michael ←
14:01:43 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:03:17 <baojie> schneid: last time I proposed 750 cases to cover OWL 2 Full. there are two concerns: no current reasoner can handle some cases. To have them proved: to have them past two implementations, or <scriber lost>.
Michael Schneider: last time I proposed 750 cases to cover OWL 2 Full. there are two concerns: no current reasoner can handle some cases. To have them proved: to have them past two implementations, or <scriber lost>. ←
14:03:25 <baojie> ... I checked with Ivan's implementation. 84 cases succeeded.
... I checked with Ivan's implementation. 84 cases succeeded. ←
14:03:42 <schneid> the testcases: http://km.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/projects/owltests/index.php/User:Michael_Schneider
Michael Schneider: the testcases: http://km.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/projects/owltests/index.php/User:Michael_Schneider ←
14:04:04 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:04:13 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
14:04:13 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
14:04:15 <baojie> Ian: we have a test case and passed as least one implementation
Ian Horrocks: we have a test case and passed as least one implementation ←
14:04:18 <msmith> yes, this works for me
Michael Smith: yes, this works for me ←
14:04:24 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
14:04:39 <schneid> btw, these are really the simplest and most straightforward testcases in my suite
Michael Schneider: btw, these are really the simplest and most straightforward testcases in my suite ←
14:04:43 <schneid> yes, 84
Michael Schneider: yes, 84 ←
14:05:00 <IanH> PROPOSED: Approve the 84 OWL Full/RL tests added by Michael Schneider
PROPOSED: Approve the 84 OWL Full/RL tests added by Michael Schneider ←
14:05:05 <msmith> +1
Michael Smith: +1 ←
14:05:08 <MarkusK_> +1
Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←
14:05:22 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
14:05:23 <baojie> +1
+1 ←
14:05:26 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
14:05:33 <zimmer> +1
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 ←
14:05:43 <IanH> RESOLVED: Approve the 84 OWL Full/RL tests added by Michael Schneider
RESOLVED: Approve the 84 OWL Full/RL tests added by Michael Schneider ←
14:05:44 <msmith> action msmith to change the status on these 84 tests from Proposed to Approved, with a reference to the minutes
Michael Smith: action msmith to change the status on these 84 tests from Proposed to Approved, with a reference to the minutes ←
14:05:44 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - msmith
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - msmith ←
14:05:48 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:05:57 <msmith> action smith to change the status on these 84 tests from Proposed to Approved, with a reference to the minutes
Michael Smith: action smith to change the status on these 84 tests from Proposed to Approved, with a reference to the minutes ←
14:05:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-347 - Change the status on these 84 tests from Proposed to Approved, with a reference to the minutes [on Michael Smith - due 2009-07-22].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-347 - Change the status on these 84 tests from Proposed to Approved, with a reference to the minutes [on Michael Smith - due 2009-07-22]. ←
14:05:59 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:06:14 <baojie> Ian: how many approved test cases we have?
Ian Horrocks: how many approved test cases we have? ←
14:06:17 <schneid> http://km.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/projects/owltests/index.php/Test:Approved
Michael Schneider: http://km.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/projects/owltests/index.php/Test:Approved ←
14:06:21 <ewallace> 220?
Evan Wallace: 220? ←
<baojie> Ian: with the 220, we have 304. Do we have sufficient approved tests? What about the proposed tests that are not yet approved?
Ian Horrocks: with the 220, we have 304. Do we have sufficient approved tests? What about the proposed tests that are not yet approved? ←
14:07:41 <baojie> msmith: Some’s syntax should be updated for the new OWL API.
Michael Smith: Some’s syntax should be updated for the new OWL API. ←
<baojie> ...There are small number of extra credit test cases.
...There are small number of extra credit test cases. ←
14:08:08 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:08:27 <baojie> ... on remaining OWL full test cases from WebOnt, we don't have two implementations yet.
... on remaining OWL full test cases from WebOnt, we don't have two implementations yet. ←
14:08:31 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:08:48 <schneid> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
14:08:51 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
14:08:51 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted ←
14:08:53 <IanH> ack schneid
Ian Horrocks: ack schneid ←
14:09:12 <baojie> Ian: For OWL full test cases from WebOnt, we need to check their correctness. I think we have decided not to approve them. What the OWL full people think?
Ian Horrocks: For OWL full test cases from WebOnt, we need to check their correctness. I think we have decided not to approve them. What the OWL full people think? ←
14:10:10 <baojie> schneid: I haven't checked. Some are very complicated.
Michael Schneider: I haven't checked. Some are very complicated. ←
14:10:11 <msmith> +1 to leave them
Michael Smith: +1 to leave them ←
14:10:18 <MarkusK_> +1
Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←
14:10:26 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
14:10:26 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
14:10:35 <msmith> q+
Michael Smith: q+ ←
14:10:39 <baojie> Ian: i think we should leave the OWL full test cases not approved
Ian Horrocks: i think we should leave the OWL full test cases not approved ←
14:10:47 <IanH> ?
Ian Horrocks: ? ←
14:10:49 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:10:54 <IanH> ack msmith
Ian Horrocks: ack msmith ←
14:11:24 <schneid> schneid: I won't find the time to check the WebOnt tests, and I remember finding some of them to be pretty strange
Michael Schneider: I won't find the time to check the WebOnt tests, and I remember finding some of them to be pretty strange [ Scribe Assist by Michael Schneider ] ←
14:11:29 <baojie> msmith: schneid's test cases have many from the OWL 1 test cases
Michael Smith: schneid's test cases have many from the OWL 1 test cases ←
14:11:36 <msmith> yes
Michael Smith: yes ←
14:11:38 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:11:39 <baojie> ... they should be updated
... they should be updated ←
14:12:01 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:12:22 <baojie> Ian: I'm happy with the current coverage of test cases. We need to contact implementers and say the test cases are already.
Ian Horrocks: I'm happy with the current coverage of test cases. We need to contact implementers and say the test cases are already. ←
14:12:42 <msmith> I'll send an email when I take care of the status changes
Michael Smith: I'll send an email when I take care of the status changes ←
14:12:52 <baojie> Ian: one more thing, extra credit test
Ian Horrocks: one more thing, extra credit test ←
14:13:12 <baojie> ... some of them should not be here
... some of them should not be here ←
14:13:32 <baojie> ... esp. some from OWL 1 test cases that are not for correctness, but for stress test.
... esp. some from OWL 1 test cases that are not for correctness, but for stress test. ←
14:13:47 <msmith> here is an example with very high cardinality restrictions http://km.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/projects/owltests/index.php/TestCase:WebOnt-description-logic-906
Michael Smith: here is an example with very high cardinality restrictions http://km.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/projects/owltests/index.php/TestCase:WebOnt-description-logic-906 ←
14:13:59 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:14:04 <msmith> q+
Michael Smith: q+ ←
14:14:10 <IanH> ack msmith
Ian Horrocks: ack msmith ←
14:14:13 <MarkusK_> +1 to have performance-focused tests extra credit
Markus Krötzsch: +1 to have performance-focused tests extra credit ←
14:14:39 <baojie> ... test cases should be on correctness, not performance. The ones with cardinality restrictions or large ABox should be extra credit tests.
... test cases should be on correctness, not performance. The ones with cardinality restrictions or large ABox should be extra credit tests. ←
14:14:42 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
14:14:56 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:14:59 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
<baojie> mike: we can put together a good list that are problematic for implementation.
Michael Smith: we can put together a good list that are problematic for implementation. ←
14:15:23 <baojie> Ivan: I'm not against this, but we need to be careful
Ivan Herman: I'm not against this, but we need to be careful ←
14:15:41 <baojie> ... the test cases are very useful
... the test cases are very useful ←
14:15:54 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:16:24 <baojie> Ian: i agree
Ian Horrocks: i agree ←
14:16:29 <alanr> q+ to ask do we say anything about passing tests in conformance?
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask do we say anything about passing tests in conformance? ←
14:16:34 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:16:39 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
14:16:39 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to ask do we say anything about passing tests in conformance?
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to ask do we say anything about passing tests in conformance? ←
14:17:00 <baojie> ... what I proposed to have performance-focussed tests as extra credit test cases
... what I proposed to have performance-focussed tests as extra credit test cases ←
14:17:06 <alanr> good thanks
Alan Ruttenberg: good thanks ←
14:17:15 <Zakim> -alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: -alanr ←
14:17:40 <alanr> zakim, what is the passcode?
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, what is the passcode? ←
14:17:40 <Zakim> the conference code is 6951 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 6951 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), alanr ←
14:17:46 <Zakim> +alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: +alanr ←
14:17:47 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:17:48 <baojie> ... not every implementation may pass them
... not every implementation may pass them ←
14:17:53 <alanr> no
Alan Ruttenberg: no ←
14:17:56 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
<baojie> alanr: do we say about the test cases' conformance?
Alan Ruttenberg: do we say about the test cases' conformance? ←
14:18:32 <msmith> +1 to this suggestion
Michael Smith: +1 to this suggestion ←
14:18:43 <baojie> Ian: We don't, but we mentioned in basic criteria for implemenation to app all the tests.
Ian Horrocks: We don't, but we mentioned in basic criteria for implemenation to app all the tests. ←
<baojie> ... For actions: I will send the lists of extra credit test cases and why, then if nobody objects, we will let Michael to redefine them.
... For actions: I will send the lists of extra credit test cases and why, then if nobody objects, we will let Michael to redefine them. ←
14:18:58 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:19:36 <baojie> Ian: anything on implementation?
Ian Horrocks: anything on implementation? ←
14:19:40 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:19:41 <msmith> yes.
Michael Smith: yes. ←
14:19:48 <baojie> subtopic: Implementations
14:19:53 <msmith> profile is ok, species is untested
Michael Smith: profile is ok, species is untested ←
14:20:02 <msmith> yes
Michael Smith: yes ←
14:20:23 <baojie> Ian: one task is to push the OWL API people about species validation
Ian Horrocks: one task is to push the OWL API people about species validation ←
14:20:40 <msmith> action ian to ask owlapi devs about species validation
Michael Smith: action ian to ask owlapi devs about species validation ←
14:20:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-348 - Ask owlapi devs about species validation [on Ian Horrocks - due 2009-07-22].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-348 - Ask owlapi devs about species validation [on Ian Horrocks - due 2009-07-22]. ←
14:21:02 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:21:11 <baojie> topic: Advancing documents to Proposed Recommendation
14:21:11 <baojie> subtopic: Features "At-Risk"
14:21:32 <baojie> Ian: as scheduled, we will make decision at the end of the month
Ian Horrocks: as scheduled, we will make decision at the end of the month ←
14:21:56 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:22:09 <pfps> I think that what we want is some message from implementers that they have successfully implemented the at-risk features.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I think that what we want is some message from implementers that they have successfully implemented the at-risk features. ←
14:22:12 <schneid> Shouldn't this be decided AFTER the call of implementation finishes
Michael Schneider: Shouldn't this be decided AFTER the call of implementation finishes ←
14:22:25 <baojie> ... my understanding is that it should be based on implementation experiences
... my understanding is that it should be based on implementation experiences ←
14:22:28 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:22:43 <pfps> I don't think that we should wait - we can even now ask implementers about this particular part of the spec.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I don't think that we should wait - we can even now ask implementers about this particular part of the spec. ←
14:23:03 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:23:55 <ivan> grddl
Ivan Herman: grddl ←
14:23:56 <ewallace> GRDDL
Evan Wallace: GRDDL ←
14:23:57 <msmith> g***l
Michael Smith: g***l ←
14:24:13 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
14:24:26 <baojie> Ian: sandro is working on that (GRDDL)
Ian Horrocks: sandro is working on that (GRDDL) ←
14:25:05 <pfps> if there are no needed changes for the UFDs then we might not need to do much
Peter Patel-Schneider: if there are no needed changes for the UFDs then we might not need to do much ←
14:25:11 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:25:13 <baojie> Ivan: user facing documents
Ivan Herman: user facing documents ←
14:25:27 <baojie> Ian: we don't have any comments
Ian Horrocks: we don't have any comments ←
14:26:23 <baojie> ... we skip CR for UFDs
... we skip CR for UFDs ←
14:26:30 <pfps> We actually did have a comment on a UFD - a glitch in Primer
Peter Patel-Schneider: We actually did have a comment on a UFD - a glitch in Primer ←
14:26:59 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:21:11 <baojie> subtopic: Schedule
14:27:52 <baojie> Ivan: schedule is tight
(No events recorded for 6 minutes)
Ivan Herman: schedule is tight ←
14:28:19 <baojie> Ian: let's focus on documents
Ian Horrocks: let's focus on documents ←
14:28:31 <schneid> think about the AtRisk stuff!!!
Michael Schneider: think about the AtRisk stuff!!! ←
14:28:46 <baojie> Ivan: I think that depends on implementations, we can't vote on documents today
Ivan Herman: I think that depends on implementations, we can't vote on documents today ←
14:29:21 <baojie> Ian: we have to vote in 2 weeks, pending implementation reports
Ian Horrocks: we have to vote in 2 weeks, pending implementation reports ←
14:29:34 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:29:39 <baojie> ... we need to announce it today
... we need to announce it today ←
14:29:55 <alanr> was this contingent on release on july 1st?
Alan Ruttenberg: was this contingent on release on july 1st? ←
14:29:59 <alanr> or was it 8 weeks in CR
Alan Ruttenberg: or was it 8 weeks in CR ←
14:30:11 <baojie> Sandro: we slipped at least 1 week
Sandro Hawke: we slipped at least 1 week ←
14:31:05 <schneid> what about 8th of August?
Michael Schneider: what about 8th of August? ←
14:31:09 <baojie> Ian: we delay to mid Aug and still catch the schedule
Ian Horrocks: we delay to mid Aug and still catch the schedule ←
14:31:29 <schneid> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
14:31:30 <ewallace> Announcing this today sounds reasonable.
Evan Wallace: Announcing this today sounds reasonable. ←
14:31:34 <ivan> ack ivan
Ivan Herman: ack ivan ←
14:31:43 <msmith> I have to drop off. thanks everyone
Michael Smith: I have to drop off. thanks everyone ←
14:31:48 <Zakim> -msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith ←
14:31:49 <pfps> You could announce the no-problems schedule and see if everyone is OK with it.
Peter Patel-Schneider: You could announce the no-problems schedule and see if everyone is OK with it. ←
14:31:54 <baojie> Sandro: shall we assign reviewers?
Sandro Hawke: shall we assign reviewers? ←
14:32:00 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:32:02 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
14:32:02 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted ←
14:32:03 <ewallace> Citations will change.
Evan Wallace: Citations will change. ←
14:32:07 <IanH> ack schneid
Ian Horrocks: ack schneid ←
14:32:15 <baojie> Ian: i don't think we need internal reviewers, since the docs are not changed
Ian Horrocks: i don't think we need internal reviewers, since the docs are not changed ←
14:33:10 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:33:22 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
14:33:22 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
14:33:23 <pfps> So schedule is announce now, get reports ready for end of July at latest, vote on 6 Aug.
Peter Patel-Schneider: So schedule is announce now, get reports ready for end of July at latest, vote on first Wed in Aug. ←
14:33:28 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:33:28 <pfps> That is fine by me.
Peter Patel-Schneider: That is fine by me. ←
14:33:42 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:33:45 <pfps> s/6 Aug/first Wed in Aug/
14:33:50 <baojie> Ivan: on planning
Ivan Herman: on planning ←
14:34:39 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
14:34:56 <baojie> Ian: adjourn
Ian Horrocks: adjourn ←
14:35:15 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace
Zakim IRC Bot: -Evan_Wallace ←
14:35:18 <schneid> bye
Michael Schneider: bye ←
14:35:18 <baojie> ... I will send emails about the next meeting
... I will send emails about the next meeting ←
14:35:19 <Zakim> -Peter_Patel-Schneider
Zakim IRC Bot: -Peter_Patel-Schneider ←
14:35:20 <Zakim> -MarkusK_
Zakim IRC Bot: -MarkusK_ ←
14:35:21 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
14:35:21 <alanr> thanks Ian
Alan Ruttenberg: thanks Ian ←
14:35:22 <zimmer> buy buy
Antoine Zimmermann: buy buy ←
14:35:25 <Zakim> -baojie
Zakim IRC Bot: -baojie ←
14:35:28 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
14:35:30 <Zakim> -schneid
Zakim IRC Bot: -schneid ←
14:35:31 <Zakim> -zimmer
Zakim IRC Bot: -zimmer ←
14:35:35 <Zakim> -IanH
Zakim IRC Bot: -IanH ←
14:35:37 <Zakim> -bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik ←
14:36:33 <IanH> RRSAgent, make records public
Ian Horrocks: RRSAgent, make records public ←
14:36:42 <IanH> RRSAgent, make records public
Ian Horrocks: RRSAgent, make records public ←
14:44:52 <Zakim> -Achille
(No events recorded for 8 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille ←
14:50:57 <Zakim> -Zhe
(No events recorded for 6 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe ←
14:55:58 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, alanr, in Team_(owl)16:59Z
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: disconnecting the lone participant, alanr, in Team_(owl)16:59Z ←
14:56:00 <Zakim> Team_(owl)16:59Z has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: Team_(owl)16:59Z has ended ←
14:56:01 <Zakim> Attendees were Sandro, alanr, Evan_Wallace, +1.518.276.aaaa, +1.202.408.aabb, baojie, msmith, MarkusK_, Ivan, IanH, schneid, bmotik, zimmer, Zhe, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Achille
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Sandro, alanr, Evan_Wallace, +1.518.276.aaaa, +1.202.408.aabb, baojie, msmith, MarkusK_, Ivan, IanH, schneid, bmotik, zimmer, Zhe, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Achille ←
Formatted by CommonScribe