<ScribeNick> PRESENT: Bijan Parsia, Peter (pfps) Patel-Schneider, Boris Motik, Antoine (zimmer) Zimmermann, Ian Horrocks, Jeff Pan, Markus Krötzsch, Alan (alanr) Ruttenberg, Uli Sattler, Sandro Hawke, Rinke Hoekstra, Zhe Wu, Bernardo (bcuencag2) Cuenca Grau, Achille Fokoue, Ivan Herman, Evan Wallace, Christine Golbreich, Mike Smith, Jie (baojie) Bao
17:04:37 <ScribeNick> REGRETS: Elisa Kendall, Michael Schneider
17:04:37 <ScribeNick> CHAIR: Alan Ruttenberg
17:04:37 <JeffP> ScribeNick: JeffP
(Scribe set to Jeff Pan)
17:04:37 <JeffP> subtopic: Agenda amendments?
17:05:06 <JeffP> alanr: if we have time, maybe also cover test annotations
Alan Ruttenberg: if we have time, maybe also cover test annotations ←
17:05:23 <pfps> minutes OK
Peter Patel-Schneider: minutes OK ←
17:05:26 <alanr> PROPOSED: Accept Previous Minutes (1 April)
PROPOSED: Accept Previous Minutes (1 April) ←
17:05:28 <Rinke> +1
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 ←
17:05:41 <uli> +1
Uli Sattler: +1 ←
17:05:44 <alanr> RESOLVED: Accept Previous Minutes (1 April)
RESOLVED: Accept Previous Minutes (1 April) ←
17:05:56 <JeffP> subtopic: Action items status
17:06:18 <JeffP> subsubtopic: Pending Review Actions
17:06:30 <JeffP> subsubtopic: Due and overdue Actions
17:06:47 <bijan> <http://www.w3.org/mid/49DC3E4D.2020501@sandsoft.com>?
Bijan Parsia: <http://www.w3.org/mid/49DC3E4D.2020501@sandsoft.com>? ←
17:07:07 <alanr> PROPOSED: WG will send short CR comment to the Semantic Web Best Practices and Deployment Working Group and XHTML 2 Working Group of the form "we looked at the CURIE draft, but came to the conclusion that it did not meet our requirements
PROPOSED: WG will send short CR comment to the Semantic Web Best Practices and Deployment Working Group and XHTML 2 Working Group of the form "we looked at the CURIE draft, but came to the conclusion that it did not meet our requirements ←
17:07:28 <ewallace> she did
Evan Wallace: she did ←
17:08:12 <JeffP> alanr: any comments?
Alan Ruttenberg: any comments? ←
17:08:16 <sandro> alan: Bijan will send his more-detailed comments as personal comments.
Sandro Hawke: alan: Bijan will send his more-detailed comments as personal comments. ←
17:08:40 <JeffP> bijan: any objection on more detailed comments?
Bijan Parsia: any objection on more detailed comments? ←
17:08:47 <sandro> -0 it seems a little rude to not explain ourselves, but I agree it's not worth our time
Sandro Hawke: -0 it seems a little rude to not explain ourselves, but I agree it's not worth our time ←
17:09:52 <sandro> sandro: I should have read Bijan's comment, and it would be nice to have a WG response, but I think we're a little too busy right now.
Sandro Hawke: sandro: I should have read Bijan's comment, and it would be nice to have a WG response, but I think we're a little too busy right now. ←
17:10:02 <JeffP> IanH: it is reasonable to send personal comments
Ian Horrocks: it is reasonable to send personal comments ←
17:10:07 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
17:10:26 <JeffP> ... it will be a pity to throw it away
... it will be a pity to throw it away ←
17:10:37 <JeffP> ... WG does not have time to review it
... WG does not have time to review it ←
17:12:18 <sandro> action: sandro send a comment to the CURIE folks about us not using them.
ACTION: sandro send a comment to the CURIE folks about us not using them. ←
17:12:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-325 - Send a comment to the CURIE folks about us not using them. [on Sandro Hawke - due 2009-04-15].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-325 - Send a comment to the CURIE folks about us not using them. [on Sandro Hawke - due 2009-04-15]. ←
17:12:23 <alanr> PROPOSED: WG will send short CR comment to the Semantic Web Best Practices and Deployment Working Group and XHTML 2 Working Group of the form "we looked at the CURIE draft, but came to the conclusion that it did not meet our requirements, with Sandro's fixup to be more friendly.
PROPOSED: WG will send short CR comment to the Semantic Web Best Practices and Deployment Working Group and XHTML 2 Working Group of the form "we looked at the CURIE draft, but came to the conclusion that it did not meet our requirements, with Sandro's fixup to be more friendly. ←
17:12:30 <bijan> +1
Bijan Parsia: +1 ←
17:12:30 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
17:12:32 <sandro> +0
Sandro Hawke: +0 ←
17:12:33 <IanH> +1
Ian Horrocks: +1 ←
17:12:33 <ivan> 1
Ivan Herman: 1 ←
17:12:36 <Zhe> +0
17:12:37 <Achille> 0
Achille Fokoue: 0 ←
17:12:38 <uli> +1
Uli Sattler: +1 ←
17:12:38 <ewallace> +1
Evan Wallace: +1 ←
17:12:39 <JeffP> +1
+1 ←
17:12:40 <Rinke> +1
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 ←
17:12:40 <msmith> +1
Michael Smith: +1 ←
17:12:40 <MarkusK_> +1
Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←
17:12:41 <pfps> +0
17:12:46 <bcuencagrau> +1
17:12:47 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
17:12:50 <alanr> RESOLVED: WG will send short CR comment to the Semantic Web Best Practices and Deployment Working Group and XHTML 2 Working Group of the form "we looked at the CURIE draft, but came to the conclusion that it did not meet our requirements, with Sandro's fixup to be more friendly.
RESOLVED: WG will send short CR comment to the Semantic Web Best Practices and Deployment Working Group and XHTML 2 Working Group of the form "we looked at the CURIE draft, but came to the conclusion that it did not meet our requirements, with Sandro's fixup to be more friendly. ←
17:12:51 <zimmer> +!
Antoine Zimmermann: +! ←
17:13:49 <JeffP> ivan: I won't be around till next Wed
Ivan Herman: I won't be around till next Wed ←
17:14:27 <JeffP> Topic: Documents and Reviewing
17:14:48 <JeffP> subtopic: Primer now ready for review -- thanks to Markus, Pascal & Sebastian
17:15:07 <JeffP> alanr: need more reviewers
Alan Ruttenberg: need more reviewers ←
17:15:18 <MarkusK_> ok, I did not see Chrsitine's review yet
Markus Krötzsch: ok, I did not see Chrsitine's review yet ←
17:15:44 <uli> too soon
Uli Sattler: too soon ←
17:16:04 <IanH> I think Christine means short notice
Ian Horrocks: I think Christine means short notice ←
17:16:09 <pfps> I'm confused, what review is being discussed?
Peter Patel-Schneider: I'm confused, what review is being discussed? ←
17:16:14 <bijan> It's not ready as a WD?
Bijan Parsia: It's not ready as a WD? ←
17:16:15 <alanr> primer
Alan Ruttenberg: primer ←
17:16:19 <JeffP> christine: I could review it if it is not too urgent
Christine Golbreich: I could review it if it is not too urgent ←
17:16:43 <JeffP> ... I like Bijan's version
... I like Bijan's version ←
17:16:44 <bijan> I'm not surprised! Christine is fair.
Bijan Parsia: I'm not surprised! Christine is fair. ←
17:17:03 <JeffP> ... anyway, I need more time
... anyway, I need more time ←
17:17:05 <IanH> Just shows that you can't please all of the people all of the time :-)
Ian Horrocks: Just shows that you can't please all of the people all of the time :-) ←
17:17:24 <MarkusK_> Actually, we tried to not "throw away" content, but mostly restructure it. I need to see detailed comments.
Markus Krötzsch: Actually, we tried to not "throw away" content, but mostly restructure it. I need to see detailed comments. ←
17:18:02 <baojie> +1
17:18:30 <JeffP> Bijan: will we publish Primer soon?
Bijan Parsia: will we publish Primer soon? ←
17:18:44 <bijan> E.g., after this publicaiton, we could revert entirely
Bijan Parsia: E.g., after this publicaiton, we could revert entirely ←
17:18:46 <bijan> Nothing blocks us
Bijan Parsia: Nothing blocks us ←
17:18:49 <JeffP> Ivan: publish as a draft is fine with me
Ivan Herman: publish as a draft is fine with me ←
17:18:59 <christine> for what reason to publish it now ?
Christine Golbreich: for what reason to publish it now ? ←
17:19:15 <pfps> Primer is OK to publish as WD
Peter Patel-Schneider: Primer is OK to publish as WD ←
17:19:18 <JeffP> alanr: I notice that we spent less time on this doc than others
Alan Ruttenberg: I notice that we spent less time on this doc than others ←
17:19:35 <bijan> Just to get all publishing in synch. Publishing is cheap so we might as well.
Bijan Parsia: Just to get all publishing in synch. Publishing is cheap so we might as well. ←
17:19:42 <Rinke> +1 to publishing as draft, because the previous WD was of 11 April 2008
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 to publishing as draft, because the previous WD was of 11 April 2008 ←
17:19:58 <JeffP> MarkusK: we are still working on the doc
Markus Krötzsch: we are still working on the doc ←
17:20:20 <bijan> My default is to publish things as WDs often.
Bijan Parsia: My default is to publish things as WDs often. ←
17:20:27 <pfps> Has anyone seen a review by Christine on Primer?
Peter Patel-Schneider: Has anyone seen a review by Christine on Primer? ←
17:20:31 <JeffP> christine: why do we need to publish it now?
Christine Golbreich: why do we need to publish it now? ←
17:21:08 <JeffP> alanr: in the f2f, I agreed that we publish the docs at the same time
Alan Ruttenberg: in the f2f, I agreed that we publish the docs at the same time ←
17:21:09 <Rinke> What about the reviews by Deborah and Michel... are they in yet?
Rinke Hoekstra: What about the reviews by Deborah and Michel... are they in yet? ←
17:21:29 <JeffP> christine: I don't agree to publish it now
Christine Golbreich: I don't agree to publish it now ←
17:21:36 <christine> was there reviewers assigned already ?
Christine Golbreich: was there reviewers assigned already ? ←
17:21:45 <MarkusK_> q+ re missing features and syntax
Markus Krötzsch: q+ re missing features and syntax ←
17:21:54 <uli> I would think that missing features in Primer is fine! It doesn't (and shouldn't) be comprehensive!
Uli Sattler: I would think that missing features in Primer is fine! It doesn't (and shouldn't) be comprehensive! ←
17:22:07 <ewallace> Primer is not intended to be comprehensive for language features.
Evan Wallace: Primer is not intended to be comprehensive for language features. ←
17:22:17 <bijan> Indeed!
Bijan Parsia: Indeed! ←
17:22:21 <Rinke> I agree with Evan...
Rinke Hoekstra: I agree with Evan... ←
17:22:22 <JeffP> ivan: the previous version was published one year ago
Ivan Herman: the previous version was published one year ago ←
17:22:28 <JeffP> ... i.e. a long time ago
... i.e. a long time ago ←
17:22:49 <bijan> I'm consistent: Publish early and often. There's should be no bar to pubbing a wd
Bijan Parsia: I'm consistent: Publish early and often. There's should be no bar to pubbing a wd ←
17:22:55 <JeffP> ... we need to prove to the community that this work is as serious as others
... we need to prove to the community that this work is as serious as others ←
17:23:23 <IanH> +1 to Ivan
Ian Horrocks: +1 to Ivan ←
17:23:43 <JeffP> alanr: we could postpone the vote till next week
Alan Ruttenberg: we could postpone the vote till next week ←
17:23:53 <JeffP> Markus: agree with Ivan
Markus Krötzsch: agree with Ivan ←
17:24:43 <JeffP> christine: I agree with Ivan's comment
Christine Golbreich: I agree with Ivan's comment ←
17:24:56 <JeffP> ... that's the reason that we should not publish it now
... that's the reason that we should not publish it now ←
17:25:04 <JeffP> ... as we concern the quality of the doc
... as we concern the quality of the doc ←
17:25:20 <JeffP> ... otherwise, it could give bad impression
... otherwise, it could give bad impression ←
17:25:23 <sandro> (I have a compromise for Christine)
Sandro Hawke: (I have a compromise for Christine) ←
17:25:46 <JeffP> Bijan: I appreciate both points
Bijan Parsia: I appreciate both points ←
17:25:56 <JeffP> ... the point is that WD is cheap
... the point is that WD is cheap ←
17:26:00 <MarkusK_> +1 to Bijan
Markus Krötzsch: +1 to Bijan ←
17:26:08 <JeffP> ... that's my default
... that's my default ←
17:26:18 <sandro> It's not unwritten. It's a rule.
Sandro Hawke: It's not unwritten. It's a rule. ←
17:26:27 <bijan> Er...Ivan is confused: It's a rule...the heartbeat rule
Bijan Parsia: Er...Ivan is confused: It's a rule...the heartbeat rule ←
17:26:30 <ewallace> Heartbeat?
Evan Wallace: Heartbeat? ←
17:26:30 <JeffP> Ivan: there is a rule that each group should publish something every three months
Ivan Herman: there is a rule that each group should publish something every three months ←
17:26:32 <sandro> (but it can be ANY wd.)
Sandro Hawke: (but it can be ANY wd.) ←
17:26:34 <bijan> And it's not per document, it's for the group
Bijan Parsia: And it's not per document, it's for the group ←
17:26:43 <bijan> It's not a big deal eithe rway
Bijan Parsia: It's not a big deal eithe rway ←
17:27:18 <ewallace> Didn't Sandro have a compromise to propose?
Evan Wallace: Didn't Sandro have a compromise to propose? ←
17:27:25 <MarkusK_> Could we have an action for Christine to send an email with the issues she perceives to be blocking publication?
Markus Krötzsch: Could we have an action for Christine to send an email with the issues she perceives to be blocking publication? ←
17:27:26 <sandro> I'm waiting patiently
Sandro Hawke: I'm waiting patiently ←
17:27:29 <JeffP> alanr: shall we vote for it next week?
Alan Ruttenberg: shall we vote for it next week? ←
17:27:33 <bijan> There is no rule that we need to publish the primer
Bijan Parsia: There is no rule that we need to publish the primer ←
17:27:36 <bijan> at this time
Bijan Parsia: at this time ←
17:27:48 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to address Christine's point about present scope and structure
Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, you wanted to address Christine's point about present scope and structure ←
17:27:55 <JeffP> Jie: can we add anchors into the docs?
Jie Bao: can we add anchors into the docs? ←
17:28:18 <MarkusK_> yes, we can add more anchors. I though of this before, too.
Markus Krötzsch: yes, we can add more anchors. I though of this before, too. ←
17:28:47 <bijan> +1 to sandro
Bijan Parsia: +1 to sandro ←
17:28:51 <MarkusK_> Jie, if you have particular subjects for which you need anchors, please sent an email.
Markus Krötzsch: Jie, if you have particular subjects for which you need anchors, please sent an email. ←
17:28:53 <baojie> Markus: the current available "anchors" are in
Markus Krötzsch: the current available "anchors" are in [ Scribe Assist by Jie Bao ] ←
17:28:56 <baojie> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Talk:Quick_Reference_Guide
Jie Bao: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Talk:Quick_Reference_Guide ←
17:28:57 <JeffP> sandro: it is only a WD
Sandro Hawke: it is only a WD ←
17:29:05 <MarkusK_> Jie, ok
Markus Krötzsch: Jie, ok ←
17:29:38 <sandro> sandro: Let's add an editor's note saying we're looking for feedback on this different style.
Sandro Hawke: Let's add an editor's note saying we're looking for feedback on this different style. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:29:39 <baojie> However, many of them are not very fine-grained, better to have anchor to each feature
Jie Bao: However, many of them are not very fine-grained, better to have anchor to each feature ←
17:29:46 <bijan> Another ednote!
Bijan Parsia: Another ednote! ←
17:29:50 <Rinke> I don't think it's fair to keep Markus et al. in the dark on the publication track. If we don't publish next week, they could have spent their effort more usefully on other documents.
Rinke Hoekstra: I don't think it's fair to keep Markus et al. in the dark on the publication track. If we don't publish next week, they could have spent their effort more usefully on other documents. ←
17:29:50 <JeffP> christine: still have some concern
Christine Golbreich: still have some concern ←
17:30:21 <sandro> alan: Let's do the ednote sandro suggests
Alan Ruttenberg: Let's do the ednote sandro suggests [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:30:22 <ewallace> It looks like the appendix is gone.
Evan Wallace: It looks like the appendix is gone. ←
17:30:34 <JeffP> ... at this point we should remove the section
... at this point we should remove the section ←
17:30:45 <bijan> Sounds good!
Bijan Parsia: Sounds good! ←
17:30:57 <JeffP> MarkusK: we can remove the Appendic section if people oppose
Markus Krötzsch: we can remove the Appendic section if people oppose ←
17:30:57 <sandro> markus: agreed -- we're removing appendix.
Markus Krötzsch: agreed -- we're removing appendix. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:31:30 <JeffP> bijan: is this the only concern from christine?
Bijan Parsia: is this the only concern from christine? ←
17:32:03 <MarkusK_> The OWL-1-changes appendix is not removed yet; it will be removed for publication.
Markus Krötzsch: The OWL-1-changes appendix is not removed yet; it will be removed for publication. ←
17:32:15 <JeffP> alanr: Jie, christine what do you think?
Alan Ruttenberg: Jie, christine what do you think? ←
17:32:27 <JeffP> Jie: put it off
17:32:30 <MarkusK_> Jie, could you also send an email with your main concerns?
Markus Krötzsch: Jie, could you also send an email with your main concerns? ←
17:32:46 <JeffP> ... I mean put off the vote
... I mean put off the vote ←
17:32:53 <bijan> Ok, we're putting off. Thanks alan
Bijan Parsia: Ok, we're putting off. Thanks alan ←
17:33:00 <baojie> Markus: will do
Markus Krötzsch: will do [ Scribe Assist by Jie Bao ] ←
17:33:22 <MarkusK_> Christine, we will publish this outside of W3C space
Markus Krötzsch: Christine, we will publish this outside of W3C space ←
17:33:28 <JeffP> alanr: christine, what is your position about Primer, vote publication now or next week?
Alan Ruttenberg: christine, what is your position about Primer, vote publication now or next week? ←
17:33:33 <JeffP> christine: up to you
Christine Golbreich: up to you ←
17:33:34 <bijan> Yep
Bijan Parsia: Yep ←
17:33:35 <MarkusK_> ... it wil not go into any document or note of the WG.
Markus Krötzsch: ... it wil not go into any document or note of the WG. ←
17:33:41 <JeffP> alanr: easy to postpone
Alan Ruttenberg: easy to postpone ←
17:34:22 <alanr> PROPOSED: SS&FS, Mapping to RDF, Direct Semantics, RDF-Based Semantics, Conformance & Test Cases, Profiles and XML Serialization are ready for publication as Last Call Working Drafts (modulo outstanding review discussions)
PROPOSED: SS&FS, Mapping to RDF, Direct Semantics, RDF-Based Semantics, Conformance & Test Cases, Profiles and XML Serialization are ready for publication as Last Call Working Drafts (modulo outstanding review discussions) ←
17:34:25 <JeffP> subtopic: Publication Schedule
17:34:37 <pfps> are there any outstanding review discussions?
Peter Patel-Schneider: are there any outstanding review discussions? ←
17:34:56 <JeffP> alanr: I am impressed by the reviews and responses
Alan Ruttenberg: I am impressed by the reviews and responses ←
17:35:14 <IanH> +1 -- huge kudos due to whole WG for the amount and quality of work over the past couple of weeks!
Ian Horrocks: +1 -- huge kudos due to whole WG for the amount and quality of work over the past couple of weeks! ←
17:35:35 <bijan> Mike Grove has approved the XML Syntax as well
Bijan Parsia: Mike Grove has approved the XML Syntax as well ←
17:35:47 <msmith> ... assuming you are ok with T&C
Michael Smith: ... assuming you are ok with T&C ←
17:36:10 <JeffP> Ivan: Michael says he didn't address one of the reviews
Ivan Herman: Michael says he didn't address one of the reviews ←
17:36:15 <alanr> PROPOSED: SS&FS, Mapping to RDF, Direct Semantics, RDF-Based Semantics, Conformance & Test Cases, Profiles and XML Serialization are ready for publication as Last Call Working Drafts (modulo outstanding review discussions)
PROPOSED: SS&FS, Mapping to RDF, Direct Semantics, RDF-Based Semantics, Conformance & Test Cases, Profiles and XML Serialization are ready for publication as Last Call Working Drafts (modulo outstanding review discussions) ←
17:36:15 <bijan> * RDF-Based Semantics review by Zhe:
Bijan Parsia: * RDF-Based Semantics review by Zhe: ←
17:36:15 <bijan> I have sent a complete response as of today (late), but no answer yet
Bijan Parsia: I have sent a complete response as of today (late), but no answer yet ←
17:37:03 <sandro> only outstanding review discussions we know of is Zhe's to Michael.
Sandro Hawke: only outstanding review discussions we know of is Zhe's to Michael. ←
17:37:04 <JeffP> Zhe: I didn't read the email yet
Zhe Wu: I didn't read the email yet ←
17:37:05 <alanr> +1 (Science Commons)
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 (Science Commons) ←
17:37:06 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:37:06 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:37:06 <pfps> +1 ALU
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 ALU ←
17:37:07 <bmotik> +1 (Oxford)
Boris Motik: +1 (Oxford) ←
17:37:07 <Rinke> +1 (University of Amsterdam)
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 (University of Amsterdam) ←
17:37:07 <MarkusK_> +1 (FZI)
Markus Krötzsch: +1 (FZI) ←
17:37:09 <zimmer> +1 (DERI)
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 (DERI) ←
17:37:09 <sandro> +1 (W3C)
Sandro Hawke: +1 (W3C) ←
17:37:13 <msmith> +1 (C&P)
Michael Smith: +1 (C&P) ←
17:37:14 <JeffP> 0 (Aberdeen)
0 (Aberdeen) ←
17:37:15 <ewallace> 0
Evan Wallace: 0 ←
17:37:20 <Achille> +1 (IBM)
Achille Fokoue: +1 (IBM) ←
17:37:23 <Zhe> +1
17:37:27 <baojie> +1
17:37:31 <alanr> RESOLVED: SS&FS, Mapping to RDF, Direct Semantics, RDF-Based Semantics, Conformance & Test Cases, Profiles and XML Serialization are ready for publication as Last Call Working Drafts (modulo outstanding review discussions)
RESOLVED: SS&FS, Mapping to RDF, Direct Semantics, RDF-Based Semantics, Conformance & Test Cases, Profiles and XML Serialization are ready for publication as Last Call Working Drafts (modulo outstanding review discussions) ←
17:37:39 <bijan> +1 Manchester
Bijan Parsia: +1 Manchester ←
17:37:40 <sandro> Awesome work, folks.
Sandro Hawke: Awesome work, folks. ←
17:37:45 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
17:37:53 <christine> +1
Christine Golbreich: +1 ←
17:38:15 <alanr> PROPOSED: Document Overview, NF&R, QRG are ready for publication as OWD (modulo outstanding review discussions)
PROPOSED: Document Overview, NF&R, QRG are ready for publication as OWD (modulo outstanding review discussions) ←
17:38:30 <bijan> Please, can we not use OWD
Bijan Parsia: Please, can we not use OWD ←
17:38:33 <bijan> WD is sufficent
Bijan Parsia: WD is sufficent ←
17:38:35 <bijan> And standadrd
Bijan Parsia: And standadrd ←
17:38:39 <pfps> +1 ALU
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 ALU ←
17:38:43 <baojie> +1 RPI
17:38:45 <ewallace> +1
Evan Wallace: +1 ←
17:38:47 <alanr> +1 Science Commons
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 Science Commons ←
17:38:48 <zimmer> +1 (DERI)
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 (DERI) ←
17:38:49 <christine> +1
Christine Golbreich: +1 ←
17:38:49 <Zhe> +1 ORACLE
17:38:49 <bijan> +1 Manchester
Bijan Parsia: +1 Manchester ←
17:38:50 <MarkusK_> +1 FZI
Markus Krötzsch: +1 FZI ←
17:38:50 <Achille> +1
Achille Fokoue: +1 ←
17:38:51 <bmotik> +1 (Oxford)
Boris Motik: +1 (Oxford) ←
17:38:55 <ivan> +1 w3c
Ivan Herman: +1 w3c ←
17:39:01 <Rinke> +1 (University of Amsterdam)
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 (University of Amsterdam) ←
17:39:03 <msmith> +1 (C&P)
Michael Smith: +1 (C&P) ←
17:39:05 <JeffP> +1 (Aberdeen)
+1 (Aberdeen) ←
17:39:11 <sandro> +1 (W3C)
Sandro Hawke: +1 (W3C) ←
17:39:40 <sandro> OWD == Ordinary Working Draft (WD that is not FPWD or LCWD)
Sandro Hawke: OWD == Ordinary Working Draft (WD that is not FPWD or LCWD) ←
17:39:46 <alanr> RESOLVED: Document Overview, NF&R, QRG are ready for publication as OWD (modulo outstanding review discussions)
RESOLVED: Document Overview, NF&R, QRG are ready for publication as OWD (modulo outstanding review discussions) ←
17:39:54 <sandro> woo hoo. :-)
Sandro Hawke: woo hoo. :-) ←
17:40:16 <sandro> yeah, probably soon, peter.
Sandro Hawke: yeah, probably soon, peter. ←
17:40:18 <ivan> clap clap clap clap
Ivan Herman: clap clap clap clap ←
17:40:22 <alanr> PROPOSED: Manchester Syntax and Data Range Extension are ready for publication as OWD
PROPOSED: Manchester Syntax and Data Range Extension are ready for publication as OWD ←
17:40:44 <ewallace> Is Data Range Extension what formerly called N-ary?
Evan Wallace: Is Data Range Extension what formerly called N-ary? ←
17:40:49 <bijan> Yes
Bijan Parsia: Yes ←
17:40:50 <sandro> yes, ewallace
Sandro Hawke: yes, ewallace ←
17:40:52 <alanr> PROPOSED: Manchester Syntax is ready for OWD and Data Range Extension is read for FPWD
PROPOSED: Manchester Syntax is ready for OWD and Data Range Extension is ready for FPWD ←
17:41:01 <Achille> 0 (IBM)
Achille Fokoue: 0 (IBM) ←
17:41:03 <ivan> s/read /ready /
17:41:03 <bijan> Data Range Extension: Linear (In)Equations
Bijan Parsia: Data Range Extension: Linear (In)Equations ←
17:41:04 <baojie> 0
17:41:04 <pfps> +1 ALU
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 ALU ←
17:41:08 <ivan> +1 w3c
Ivan Herman: +1 w3c ←
17:41:08 <bijan> +1 Manchester
Bijan Parsia: +1 Manchester ←
17:41:09 <JeffP> 0 (Aberdeen)
0 (Aberdeen) ←
17:41:12 <ewallace> +1 NIST
Evan Wallace: +1 NIST ←
17:41:13 <alanr> +1 Science Commons
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 Science Commons ←
17:41:13 <Zhe> 0 ORACLE
17:41:14 <MarkusK_> +1 FZI
Markus Krötzsch: +1 FZI ←
17:41:16 <christine> 0
17:41:17 <bmotik> +1 (Oxford)
Boris Motik: +1 (Oxford) ←
17:41:18 <zimmer> 0 DERI
Antoine Zimmermann: 0 DERI ←
17:41:18 <Rinke> +1 (University of Amsterdam)
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 (University of Amsterdam) ←
17:41:18 <msmith> +1 (C&P)
Michael Smith: +1 (C&P) ←
17:41:48 <alanr> RESOLVED: Manchester Syntax is ready for OWD and Data Range Extension is read for FPWD
RESOLVED: Manchester Syntax is ready for OWD and Data Range Extension is read for FPWD ←
17:42:15 <alanr> PROPOSED: rdf:text is ready for publication as a Last Call Working Draft
PROPOSED: rdf:text is ready for publication as a Last Call Working Draft ←
17:42:40 <bijan> +1 Manchester
Bijan Parsia: +1 Manchester ←
17:42:42 <pfps> +1 ALU
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 ALU ←
17:42:42 <baojie> +1 RPI
17:42:43 <bmotik> +1 (Oxford)
Boris Motik: +1 (Oxford) ←
17:42:43 <alanr> +1 Science Commons
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 Science Commons ←
17:42:47 <zimmer> 0
17:42:48 <JeffP> 0 (Aberdeen)
0 (Aberdeen) ←
17:42:50 <Achille> 0
Achille Fokoue: 0 ←
17:42:52 <Rinke> +1 (University of Amsterdam)
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 (University of Amsterdam) ←
17:42:53 <Zhe> +1 Oracle
17:42:54 <ewallace> +1
Evan Wallace: +1 ←
17:42:55 <sandro> +1 (W3C)
Sandro Hawke: +1 (W3C) ←
17:42:58 <msmith> +1 (C&P)
Michael Smith: +1 (C&P) ←
17:43:00 <christine> +1
Christine Golbreich: +1 ←
17:43:02 <MarkusK_> +1 FZI
Markus Krötzsch: +1 FZI ←
17:43:19 <alanr> RESOLVED: rdf:text is ready for publication as a Last Call Working Draft
RESOLVED: rdf:text is ready for publication as a Last Call Working Draft ←
17:43:29 <IanH> Thanks to everyone! (Virtual) drinks are on me :-)
Ian Horrocks: Thanks to everyone! (Virtual) drinks are on me :-) ←
17:43:41 <JeffP> :-)
:-) ←
17:43:48 <uli> feierabend!
Uli Sattler: feierabend! ←
17:43:58 <JeffP> Topic: (Technical) Issues Arising
17:44:13 <alanr> PROPOSED: owl:versionIRI will be used to store the version IRI
PROPOSED: owl:versionIRI will be used to store the version IRI ←
17:44:14 <JeffP> subtopic: RDF-Based Semantics and n-ary dataranges (see Michael's email)
17:45:14 <JeffP> subtopic: owl:versionInfo (see Uli's email and thread)
17:45:18 <alanr> PROPOSED: owl:versionIRI will be used to store the version IRI
PROPOSED: owl:versionIRI will be used to store the version IRI ←
17:45:21 <sandro> sandro: So these changes are considered part of the "modulo open reviews", since we're already at LC?
Sandro Hawke: So these changes are considered part of the "modulo open reviews", since we're already at LC? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:45:24 <pfps> This is one of the "modulos". Fortunately all changes for these are very localised.
Peter Patel-Schneider: This is one of the "modulos". Fortunately all changes for these are very localised. ←
17:45:28 <Rinke> +1
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 ←
17:45:29 <baojie> +1
17:45:29 <zimmer> +1
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 ←
17:45:30 <MarkusK_> +1
Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←
17:45:30 <uli> +1
Uli Sattler: +1 ←
17:45:30 <alanr> +1 Science Commons
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 Science Commons ←
17:45:31 <ivan> 0
Ivan Herman: 0 ←
17:45:31 <JeffP> +1
+1 ←
17:45:34 <ewallace> 0
Evan Wallace: 0 ←
17:45:34 <Achille> +1
Achille Fokoue: +1 ←
17:45:35 <pfps> +1
17:45:35 <Zhe> 0
17:45:38 <christine> 0
17:45:45 <msmith> 0
Michael Smith: 0 ←
17:45:45 <bijan> +1
Bijan Parsia: +1 ←
17:45:53 <alanr> RESOLVED: owl:versionIRI will be used to store the version IRI
RESOLVED: owl:versionIRI will be used to store the version IRI ←
17:45:56 <sandro> 0
Sandro Hawke: 0 ←
17:45:57 <pfps> Editor's should probably report back to the WG on the changes they made for these "modulos"
Peter Patel-Schneider: Editor's should probably report back to the WG on the changes they made for these "modulos" ←
17:46:28 <pfps> q+
17:46:29 <bmotik> I've already started changing it.
Boris Motik: I've already started changing it. ←
17:47:08 <IanH> I can look at it too
Ian Horrocks: I can look at it too ←
17:47:30 <sandro> action: boris to implement changes for owl:versionIRI
ACTION: boris to implement changes for owl:versionIRI ←
17:47:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-326 - Implement changes for owl:versionIRI [on Boris Motik - due 2009-04-15].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-326 - Implement changes for owl:versionIRI [on Boris Motik - due 2009-04-15]. ←
17:47:36 <JeffP> ivan: there is a change in RDF semantics too
Ivan Herman: there is a change in RDF semantics too ←
17:47:43 <bmotik> Sure
Boris Motik: Sure ←
17:47:57 <pfps> action: pfps to review changes for owl:versionIRI
ACTION: pfps to review changes for owl:versionIRI ←
17:47:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-327 - Review changes for owl:versionIRI [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2009-04-15].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-327 - Review changes for owl:versionIRI [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2009-04-15]. ←
17:47:58 <JeffP> alanr: Boris, could you check with Michael?
Alan Ruttenberg: Boris, could you check with Michael? ←
17:48:00 <sandro> action: peter to review and signal approval of changes made for owl:versionIRI
ACTION: peter to review and signal approval of changes made for owl:versionIRI ←
17:48:00 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - peter
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - peter ←
17:48:00 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ppatelsc, phaase)
Trackbot IRC Bot: Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ppatelsc, phaase) ←
17:48:04 <bmotik> No need for an axiom: I've already started changing everything.
Boris Motik: No need for an axiom: I've already started changing everything. ←
17:48:08 <sandro> action: pfps to review and signal approval of changes made for owl:versionIRI
ACTION: pfps to review and signal approval of changes made for owl:versionIRI ←
17:48:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-328 - Review and signal approval of changes made for owl:versionIRI [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2009-04-15].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-328 - Review and signal approval of changes made for owl:versionIRI [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2009-04-15]. ←
17:48:10 <bmotik> s/aximo/action
Boris Motik: s/aximo/action (warning: replacement failed) ←
17:48:14 <sandro> action: ian to review and signal approval of changes made for owl:versionIRI
ACTION: ian to review and signal approval of changes made for owl:versionIRI ←
17:48:14 <trackbot> Created ACTION-329 - Review and signal approval of changes made for owl:versionIRI [on Ian Horrocks - due 2009-04-15].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-329 - Review and signal approval of changes made for owl:versionIRI [on Ian Horrocks - due 2009-04-15]. ←
17:48:30 <JeffP> subtopic: negative class and property assertions: should they be supported in OWL RL? (see Jos de Bruijn's LC comment and Achille's review of Profiles)
17:48:44 <sandro> action: boris to communicate with Michael Schneider about doing the changes to RDF-Based Semantic in support of owl:versionIRI
ACTION: boris to communicate with Michael Schneider about doing the changes to RDF-Based Semantic in support of owl:versionIRI ←
17:48:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-330 - Communicate with Michael Schneider about doing the changes to RDF-Based Semantic in support of owl:versionIRI [on Boris Motik - due 2009-04-15].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-330 - Communicate with Michael Schneider about doing the changes to RDF-Based Semantic in support of owl:versionIRI [on Boris Motik - due 2009-04-15]. ←
17:49:09 <JeffP> bmotik: we could easily add both of them
Boris Motik: we could easily add both of them ←
17:49:25 <JeffP> ... the change in OWL2RL RDF is minimum
... the change in OWL2RL RDF is minimum ←
17:49:47 <bijan> E.g., a:notC
Bijan Parsia: E.g., a:notC ←
17:50:07 <uli> but we don't have "negClassAssertion(a C)"
Uli Sattler: but we don't have "negClassAssertion(a C)" ←
17:50:41 <uli> only ClassAssertion(a not(C))
Uli Sattler: only ClassAssertion(a not(C)) ←
17:50:51 <JeffP> Zhe: for negative properties are fine
Zhe Wu: for negative properties are fine ←
17:51:06 <bmotik> +q
Boris Motik: +q ←
17:51:14 <uli> could you explain, Zhe?
Uli Sattler: could you explain, Zhe? ←
17:52:29 <JeffP> bmotik: we are talking about the right hand side
Boris Motik: we are talking about the right hand side ←
17:53:12 <JeffP> achille: if it is simply syntactic sugar, there is no reason that we should reject that
Achille Fokoue: if it is simply syntactic sugar, there is no reason that we should reject that ←
17:53:34 <alanr> PROPOSED: negative property assertions will be added to the OWL 2 RL profile
PROPOSED: negative property assertions will be added to the OWL 2 RL profile ←
17:53:52 <JeffP> Zhe: I am convinced, no big deal
Zhe Wu: I am convinced, no big deal ←
17:54:39 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
17:54:46 <JeffP> bijan: jeremy is oppose to the negative properties in general
Bijan Parsia: jeremy is oppose to the negative properties in general ←
17:54:52 <alanr> "at risk"?
Alan Ruttenberg: "at risk"? ←
17:55:30 <uli> you can even translate them out (using disjointclasses)
Uli Sattler: you can even translate them out (using disjointclasses) ←
17:55:42 <JeffP> bmotik: we should vote anyway
Boris Motik: we should vote anyway ←
17:55:55 <uli> (the above relates to negative class assertions
Uli Sattler: (the above relates to negative class assertions ←
17:55:59 <bijan> +1 to bmotik
Bijan Parsia: +1 to bmotik ←
17:56:09 <IanH> bijan: adding them (NPAs) to RL is thus good because it reinforces their importance
Bijan Parsia: adding them (NPAs) to RL is thus good because it reinforces their importance [ Scribe Assist by Ian Horrocks ] ←
17:56:20 <bijan> IRI everywhere
Bijan Parsia: IRI everywhere ←
17:57:00 <alanr> PROPOSED: negative class and property assertions will be added to the OWL 2 RL profile
PROPOSED: negative class and property assertions will be added to the OWL 2 RL profile ←
17:57:07 <bmotik> +1 (Oxford)
Boris Motik: +1 (Oxford) ←
17:57:07 <Achille> +1 (IBM)
Achille Fokoue: +1 (IBM) ←
17:57:08 <pfps> -0 ALU (worry about late changes, and rationale for doing this)
Peter Patel-Schneider: -0 ALU (worry about late changes, and rationale for doing this) ←
17:57:10 <MarkusK_> +1 (FZI)
Markus Krötzsch: +1 (FZI) ←
17:57:13 <alanr> 0 Science Commons
Alan Ruttenberg: 0 Science Commons ←
17:57:15 <bijan> +1 (Manchester)
Bijan Parsia: +1 (Manchester) ←
17:57:18 <ewallace> 0 NIST
Evan Wallace: 0 NIST ←
17:57:19 <msmith> +1 (C&P)
Michael Smith: +1 (C&P) ←
17:57:19 <baojie> 0
17:57:21 <Rinke> 0
Rinke Hoekstra: 0 ←
17:57:22 <Zhe> +0 (ORACLE)
17:57:22 <zimmer> 0
17:57:22 <JeffP> -1 need more time thinking
-1 need more time thinking ←
17:57:26 <christine> 0
17:57:28 <ivan> 0
Ivan Herman: 0 ←
17:57:30 <alanr> fwiw, I'm sympathetic to pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: fwiw, I'm sympathetic to pfps ←
17:57:32 <sandro> 0 (concerned about size of RL)
Sandro Hawke: 0 (concerned about size of RL) ←
17:58:48 <sandro> let's make it at risk for being in RL
Sandro Hawke: let's make it at risk for being in RL ←
18:00:29 <Achille> JeffP, NegativeObjectPropertyAssertion(R, a, b) = DisjointClasses(ObjectSomeValueFrom(R, ObjectOneOf(b)), ObjectOneOf(a))). It is just a syntactic sugar.
Achille Fokoue: JeffP, NegativeObjectPropertyAssertion(R, a, b) = DisjointClasses(ObjectSomeValueFrom(R, ObjectOneOf(b)), ObjectOneOf(a))). It is just a syntactic sugar. ←
18:01:17 <uli> Jeff, see Achille's comment above - and you can do the same with NegClassAssertion
Uli Sattler: Jeff, see Achille's comment above - and you can do the same with NegClassAssertion ←
18:01:25 <sandro> +1 bijan -- put it in the documents for now -- decide next week,
Sandro Hawke: +1 bijan -- put it in the documents for now -- decide next week, ←
18:01:46 <MarkusK_> +1 to Bijan; the more time the editors get for the changes the better (also re peter's concerns)
Markus Krötzsch: +1 to Bijan; the more time the editors get for the changes the better (also re peter's concerns) ←
18:01:53 <uli> +1 to Boris
Uli Sattler: +1 to Boris ←
18:01:56 <sandro> bmotik: I am 100,000% sure there is no problem here. [[ and I am wrong 103% of the time. ]]
Boris Motik: I am 100,000% sure there is no problem here. [[ and I am wrong 103% of the time. ]] [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:01:58 <JeffP> I trust bmotik, ok to put At Risk
I trust bmotik, ok to put At Risk ←
18:02:36 <Zhe> Achille, is that expression representable by RL syntax?
Zhe Wu: Achille, is that expression representable by RL syntax? ←
18:02:41 <JeffP> won't insist
won't insist ←
18:02:49 <Achille> yes Zhe
Achille Fokoue: yes Zhe ←
18:03:04 <bijan> No
Bijan Parsia: No ←
18:03:14 <alanr> PROPOSED: negative class and property assertions will be added to the OWL 2 RL profile unless problem are uncovered in then next week in which case revert
PROPOSED: negative class and property assertions will be added to the OWL 2 RL profile unless problem are uncovered in then next week in which case revert ←
18:03:15 <bijan> (er...not ot Zhe)
Bijan Parsia: (er...not ot Zhe) ←
18:03:21 <bijan> +1 Manchester
Bijan Parsia: +1 Manchester ←
18:03:24 <pfps> 0 ALU
Peter Patel-Schneider: 0 ALU ←
18:03:30 <ewallace> +1 NIST
Evan Wallace: +1 NIST ←
18:03:31 <Achille> +1 (IBM)
Achille Fokoue: +1 (IBM) ←
18:03:32 <bmotik> +1 (Oxford)
Boris Motik: +1 (Oxford) ←
18:03:34 <alanr> 0 Science Commons
Alan Ruttenberg: 0 Science Commons ←
18:03:34 <MarkusK_> +1 (FZI)
Markus Krötzsch: +1 (FZI) ←
18:03:35 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
18:03:36 <christine> 0
18:03:38 <JeffP> 0 (Aberdeen)
0 (Aberdeen) ←
18:03:40 <Rinke> 0
Rinke Hoekstra: 0 ←
18:03:40 <Zhe> +0 ORACLE
18:03:43 <zimmer> 0.5
Antoine Zimmermann: 0.5 ←
18:03:44 <baojie> 0
18:03:44 <msmith> +1 (C&P)
Michael Smith: +1 (C&P) ←
18:04:03 <alanr> RESOLVED: negative class and property assertions will be added to the OWL 2 RL profile unless problem are uncovered in then next week in which case revert
RESOLVED: negative class and property assertions will be added to the OWL 2 RL profile unless problem are uncovered in then next week in which case revert ←
18:04:24 <JeffP> subtopic: owl:real -- do we still want/need it?
18:04:36 <ewallace> +1 to Bijan
Evan Wallace: +1 to Bijan ←
18:04:36 <JeffP> bijan: yes, we want and need it
Bijan Parsia: yes, we want and need it ←
18:04:43 <JeffP> ... necessary for n-ary
... necessary for n-ary ←
18:04:45 <MarkusK_> +1 to Bijan
Markus Krötzsch: +1 to Bijan ←
18:04:52 <msmith> +1 to bijan
Michael Smith: +1 to bijan ←
18:05:02 <uli> +1 to Bijan as well
Uli Sattler: +1 to Bijan as well ←
18:05:05 <pfps> +1 to Bijan (at least that rational is not adequate)
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to Bijan (at least that rational is not adequate) ←
18:05:49 <pfps> what we really might want is geometric numbers (I think that this is what we need) but real is better
Peter Patel-Schneider: what we really might want is geometric numbers (I think that this is what we need) but real is better ←
18:06:01 <bijan> algebraic numbers is what you mean
Bijan Parsia: algebraic numbers is what you mean ←
18:06:04 <JeffP> subtopic: Figure 2 in Overview -- to be or not to be?
18:06:09 <bijan> And I think we want transcendentals
Bijan Parsia: And I think we want transcendentals ←
18:07:26 <sandro> we're talking about http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/images/4/4d/Owl2-profiles-4-muted-small.png
Sandro Hawke: we're talking about http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/images/4/4d/Owl2-profiles-4-muted-small.png ←
18:07:33 <JeffP> christine: is the figure correct?
Christine Golbreich: is the figure correct? ←
18:07:44 <JeffP> sandro: just about syntax
Sandro Hawke: just about syntax ←
18:07:50 <uli> and for syntax it's correct
Uli Sattler: and for syntax it's correct ←
18:08:33 <JeffP> Hi uli, how about on semantics?
Hi uli, how about on semantics? ←
18:08:44 <msmith> +1 to removing the "(Full)"
Michael Smith: +1 to removing the "(Full)" ←
18:08:57 <uli> Jeff, what would the sets stand for?
Uli Sattler: Jeff, what would the sets stand for? ←
18:09:08 <JeffP> uli, thanks
uli, thanks ←
18:09:40 <Rinke> +1 to Bijan... the picture is potentially really really confusing
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 to Bijan... the picture is potentially really really confusing ←
18:09:50 <christine> +1 to Bijan!
Christine Golbreich: +1 to Bijan! ←
18:09:52 <JeffP> bijan: could lead to confusion
Bijan Parsia: could lead to confusion ←
18:10:00 <Rinke> (at least, if we have a picture for syntax, we should have one for semantics as well)
Rinke Hoekstra: (at least, if we have a picture for syntax, we should have one for semantics as well) ←
18:10:53 <alanr> STRAW POLL: write "in" for keeping the diagram and "out" for removing it
Alan Ruttenberg: STRAW POLL: write "in" for keeping the diagram and "out" for removing it ←
18:11:17 <Rinke> out
Rinke Hoekstra: out ←
18:11:21 <bijan> out
Bijan Parsia: out ←
18:11:22 <JeffP> christine: can we simply keep the profiles without full?
Christine Golbreich: can we simply keep the profiles without full? ←
18:11:24 <ivan> in
Ivan Herman: in ←
18:11:27 <alanr> in
Alan Ruttenberg: in ←
18:11:30 <sandro> in
Sandro Hawke: in ←
18:11:36 <baojie> out
18:11:37 <uli> don't know
Uli Sattler: don't know ←
18:11:43 <pfps> out, out, out
Peter Patel-Schneider: out, out, out ←
18:11:50 <Zhe> not sure
18:11:51 <zimmer> in
Antoine Zimmermann: in ←
18:12:02 <christine> leaning for out
Christine Golbreich: leaning for out ←
18:12:03 <MarkusK_> unsure
Markus Krötzsch: unsure ←
18:12:03 <msmith> ou
Michael Smith: ou ←
18:12:05 <bcuencagrau> not sure
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: not sure ←
18:12:08 <JeffP> not sure
not sure ←
18:12:09 <Achille> not sure
Achille Fokoue: not sure ←
18:12:17 <ewallace> not sure
Evan Wallace: not sure ←
18:13:01 <pfps> misleading, for sure
Peter Patel-Schneider: misleading, for sure ←
18:13:04 <baojie> Is RL really a subset of DL? it only has RDF semantics
Jie Bao: Is RL really a subset of DL? it only has RDF semantics ←
18:13:05 <alanr> ack christine
Alan Ruttenberg: ack christine ←
18:13:10 <bijan> I don't think it's correct
Bijan Parsia: I don't think it's correct ←
18:13:12 <bijan> But I have no idea
Bijan Parsia: But I have no idea ←
18:13:17 <ivan> baojie: this is not true I believe
Jie Bao: this is not true I believe [ Scribe Assist by Ivan Herman ] ←
18:13:18 <baojie> +q
18:13:18 <alanr> ack uli
Alan Ruttenberg: ack uli ←
18:13:25 <Rinke> baojie ... it's syntax, not semantics
Rinke Hoekstra: baojie ... it's syntax, not semantics ←
18:13:31 <baojie> i see
18:13:32 <JeffP> uli: the syntactic features of RL, EL, and QL overlap, but none is an extension of another
Uli Sattler: the syntactic features of RL, EL, and QL overlap, but none is an extension of another ←
18:13:37 <MarkusK_> baojie, all syntqactic profiles support either semantics
Markus Krötzsch: baojie, all syntqactic profiles support either semantics ←
18:13:42 <Rinke> ... and *that's* the confusing bit
Rinke Hoekstra: ... and *that's* the confusing bit ←
18:13:55 <IanH> As an alternative, how about adding http://blog.wired.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/03/04/puppy.jpg to soothe people who are worried about profiles?
Ian Horrocks: As an alternative, how about adding http://blog.wired.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/03/04/puppy.jpg to soothe people who are worried about profiles? ←
18:14:04 <Rinke> +1 to IanH
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 to IanH ←
18:14:09 <JeffP> ... it could make the context right
... it could make the context right ←
18:14:23 <bijan> Size of langauge
Bijan Parsia: Size of langauge ←
18:14:27 <JeffP> :-)
:-) ←
18:14:28 <bijan> Size of overlap
Bijan Parsia: Size of overlap ←
18:14:36 <sandro> nice, IanH :-)
Sandro Hawke: nice, IanH :-) ←
18:15:09 <Zhe> RL circile should be bigger :)
Zhe Wu: RL circile should be bigger :) ←
18:15:17 <alanr> I'm thinking http://www.wristwatches.tv/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/zidane-head-butt.jpg
Alan Ruttenberg: I'm thinking http://www.wristwatches.tv/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/zidane-head-butt.jpg ←
18:15:36 <alanr> but perhaps that's idiosyncratic to chairing ;-)
Alan Ruttenberg: but perhaps that's idiosyncratic to chairing ;-) ←
18:15:41 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
18:15:43 <sandro> q+
Sandro Hawke: q+ ←
18:15:48 <alanr> ack bijan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan ←
18:16:17 <alanr> ack sandro
Alan Ruttenberg: ack sandro ←
18:16:27 <uli> zakim, mute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←
18:16:43 <bijan> Yes!
Bijan Parsia: Yes! ←
18:16:46 <bijan> Put it on your blog
Bijan Parsia: Put it on your blog ←
18:16:52 <bijan> I'll link to it
Bijan Parsia: I'll link to it ←
18:16:58 <bijan> And you can link to me
Bijan Parsia: And you can link to me ←
18:17:19 <JeffP> Topic: Test Cases
18:17:29 <sandro> sandro: I suggest we leave it out of the next publication of Overview, and see if we get comments on it. I can put it in my blog or something. :-)
Sandro Hawke: I suggest we leave it out of the next publication of Overview, and see if we get comments on it. I can put it in my blog or something. :-) [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:18:16 <sandro> sandro: (and since that's what's in the version on the wiki right now, I think we don't need a resolution about it at this point.)
Sandro Hawke: (and since that's what's in the version on the wiki right now, I think we don't need a resolution about it at this point.) [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:18:18 <sandro> alan: okay.
Alan Ruttenberg: okay. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:18:38 <JeffP> msmith: we need test running tools
Michael Smith: we need test running tools ←
18:19:12 <msmith> the current tests around new features are listed at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Test_Wrangler_Notes#New_Feature_Test_Cases
Michael Smith: the current tests around new features are listed at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Test_Wrangler_Notes#New_Feature_Test_Cases ←
18:19:57 <JeffP> bijan: it will take a while till we have the updated OWL API
Bijan Parsia: it will take a while till we have the updated OWL API ←
18:20:32 <msmith> http://github.com/msmithcp/owlwg-test/tree/master
Michael Smith: http://github.com/msmithcp/owlwg-test/tree/master ←
18:21:06 <JeffP> bijan: Robert Steven has some expressive ontologies and some tutorials
Bijan Parsia: Robert Steven has some expressive ontologies and some tutorials ←
18:21:09 <bijan> E.g., http://owl.cs.manchester.ac.uk/repository/download?ontology=http://www.co-ode.org/roberts/family-tree.owl&version=0&format=RDF/XML
Bijan Parsia: E.g., http://owl.cs.manchester.ac.uk/repository/download?ontology=http://www.co-ode.org/roberts/family-tree.owl&version=0&format=RDF/XML ←
18:21:16 <IanH> We also have a bunch of unit tests and an expanding set of test ontologies.
Ian Horrocks: We also have a bunch of unit tests and an expanding set of test ontologies. ←
18:21:36 <IanH> But I know that Birte is already in touch with Mike on testing.
Ian Horrocks: But I know that Birte is already in touch with Mike on testing. ←
18:21:40 <bijan> Also, we'll have about 18 OWL EL -- reasoners in a few weeks :)
Bijan Parsia: Also, we'll have about 18 OWL EL -- reasoners in a few weeks :) ←
18:21:42 <msmith> I think those were using OWLAPI, yes?
Michael Smith: I think those were using OWLAPI, yes? ←
18:21:45 <alanr> thanks ian
Alan Ruttenberg: thanks ian ←
18:21:55 <JeffP> http://dipper.csd.abdn.ac.uk:8080/OWL2ProfileChecker/
http://dipper.csd.abdn.ac.uk:8080/OWL2ProfileChecker/ ←
18:22:30 <bijan> Test parties!
Bijan Parsia: Test parties! ←
18:22:31 <JeffP> alanr: msmith could check with Jeff
Alan Ruttenberg: msmith could check with Jeff ←
18:23:35 <msmith> [...] not true
Michael Smith: [...] not true ←
18:23:43 <MarkusK_> +1 to mike
Markus Krötzsch: +1 to mike ←
18:24:42 <MarkusK_> Note that there are other syntaxes, see e.g. http://km.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/projects/owltests/index.php/Test:FUNCTIONAL
Markus Krötzsch: Note that there are other syntaxes, see e.g. http://km.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/projects/owltests/index.php/Test:FUNCTIONAL ←
18:24:52 <msmith> See http://km.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/projects/owltests/index.php/New-Feature-DisjointObjectProperties-001
Michael Smith: See http://km.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/projects/owltests/index.php/New-Feature-DisjointObjectProperties-001 ←
18:26:30 <JeffP> alanr: how can we test annotation functioning?
Alan Ruttenberg: how can we test annotation functioning? ←
18:26:44 <JeffP> ... we should discuss more in emails
... we should discuss more in emails ←
18:27:05 <uli> Alan, load, safe, and check whether annotations are still there?
Uli Sattler: Alan, load, safe, and check whether annotations are still there? ←
18:27:24 <alanr> uli: how?
Uli Sattler: how? [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←
18:27:47 <MarkusK_> +1 to Mike that normative syntax transformations need not be generated for *all* tests
Markus Krötzsch: +1 to Mike that normative syntax transformations need not be generated for *all* tests ←
18:27:48 <uli> Alan, use grep?
Uli Sattler: Alan, use grep? ←
18:28:36 <sandro> mike: I don't think we can hand-check syntax tests for every test case.
Michael Smith: I don't think we can hand-check syntax tests for every test case. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:29:20 <sandro> bijan: round-trip testing.
Bijan Parsia: round-trip testing. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:30:06 <JeffP> IanH: a test can be an ontology that consists all language constructs
Ian Horrocks: a test can be an ontology that consists all language constructs ←
18:30:10 <sandro> ian: mutual-entailing as a translation test.
Ian Horrocks: mutual-entailing as a translation test. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:30:12 <msmith> +1 to doing this mostly in 1 large test
Michael Smith: +1 to doing this mostly in 1 large test ←
18:30:17 <sandro> alan: yes, modulo annotations.
Alan Ruttenberg: yes, modulo annotations. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:30:25 <JeffP> Topic: Any other business
18:30:31 <uli> bye bye
Uli Sattler: bye bye ←
18:30:32 <JeffP> thx, bye
thx, bye ←
18:30:34 <Zhe> bye
18:30:35 <Rinke> bye
Rinke Hoekstra: bye ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
