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00:00:00 <scribenick> PRESENT: Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Ivan, MarkusK_, msmith, Achille, bcuencagrau (muted), Alan_Ruttenberg, uli (muted), Sandro, Evan_Wallace, Michael Schneider , Zhe, Christine, Harold, dlm, Carsten, Rinke
Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 54 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Christine Golbreich Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Diego Calvanese Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Guoqian Jiang Harold Solbrig Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman Jeff Pan Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Jyotishman Pathak Kendall Clark Markus Krötzsch Markus Stocker Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Michel Dumontier Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Rob Shearer Sandro Hawke Suzette Stoutenburg Thomas Schneider Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu
00:00:00 <scribenick> REGRETS: Bijan Parsia, Jeff Pan
17:57:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/11/05-owl-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/11/05-owl-irc ←
17:58:01 <pfps> zakim, who is here?
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, who is here? ←
17:58:01 <Zakim> sorry, pfps, I don't know what conference this is
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, pfps, I don't know what conference this is ←
17:58:02 <IanH> IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.11.05/Agenda
Ian Horrocks: IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.11.05/Agenda ←
17:58:03 <Zakim> On IRC I see MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot ←
17:58:08 <pfps> zakim, this is owlwg
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, this is owlwg ←
17:58:08 <Zakim> ok, pfps; that matches SW_OWL()1:00PM
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, pfps; that matches SW_OWL()1:00PM ←
17:58:15 <Zakim> +Elisa_Kendall
Zakim IRC Bot: +Elisa_Kendall ←
17:58:16 <pfps> zakim, who is here?
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, who is here? ←
17:58:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall ←
17:58:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot ←
17:58:55 <Zakim> + +31.20.525.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +31.20.525.aaaa ←
17:59:00 <Rinke> zakim, aaa is me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, aaa is me ←
17:59:00 <Zakim> sorry, Rinke, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Rinke, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa' ←
17:59:06 <Rinke> zakim, aaaa is me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, aaaa is me ←
17:59:07 <Zakim> +Ian_Horrocks
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ian_Horrocks ←
17:59:07 <Zakim> +Rinke; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Rinke; got it ←
17:59:21 <Zakim> +??P9
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9 ←
17:59:23 <IanH> zakim, Ian_Horrocks is IanH
Ian Horrocks: zakim, Ian_Horrocks is IanH ←
17:59:23 <Zakim> +IanH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +IanH; got it ←
17:59:30 <bmotik> Zakim, ??P9 is me
Boris Motik: Zakim, ??P9 is me ←
17:59:30 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it ←
17:59:32 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
17:59:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik ←
17:59:34 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:59:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot ←
17:59:36 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:59:58 <IanH> ScribeNick: Elisa
(Scribe set to Elisa Kendall)
18:00:31 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
18:00:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted) ←
18:00:45 <pfps> rrsagent, make records public
Peter Patel-Schneider: rrsagent, make records public ←
18:00:49 <Zakim> +Tony
Zakim IRC Bot: +Tony ←
18:00:52 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
18:01:00 <Zakim> On IRC I see ivan, msmith, bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see ivan, msmith, bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot ←
18:01:07 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
18:01:10 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
18:01:26 <Zakim> +??P11
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11 ←
18:01:48 <Zakim> + +1.202.408.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.202.408.aabb ←
18:02:51 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
18:02:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Tony, Ivan, MarkusK_, msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Tony, Ivan, MarkusK_, msmith ←
18:02:54 <Zakim> On IRC I see Achille, dlm, ivan, msmith, bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Achille, dlm, ivan, msmith, bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot ←
18:03:00 <Zakim> +[IBM]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM] ←
18:03:13 <Achille> Zakim, IBM is me
Achille Fokoue: Zakim, IBM is me ←
18:03:13 <Zakim> +Achille; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Achille; got it ←
18:03:48 <Elisa> Topic: Admin
18:04:28 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
18:04:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Tony, Ivan, MarkusK_, msmith, Achille
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Tony, Ivan, MarkusK_, msmith, Achille ←
18:04:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see bcuencagrau, Achille, dlm, ivan, msmith, bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see bcuencagrau, Achille, dlm, ivan, msmith, bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, sandro, trackbot ←
18:04:32 <Zakim> +Tony.a
Zakim IRC Bot: +Tony.a ←
18:04:34 <Zakim> +??P15
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15 ←
18:04:39 <Elisa> Ian: Any agenda amendments?
Ian Horrocks: Any agenda amendments? ←
18:04:53 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, ??P15 is me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, ??P15 is me ←
18:04:53 <Zakim> +bcuencagrau; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bcuencagrau; got it ←
18:05:01 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, mute me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me ←
18:05:01 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should now be muted ←
18:05:06 <Zakim> +Alan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Alan ←
18:05:17 <pfps> 15 oct minutes look OK
Peter Patel-Schneider: 15 oct minutes look OK ←
18:05:18 <Zakim> +??P19
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P19 ←
18:05:21 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
18:05:22 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace
Zakim IRC Bot: +Evan_Wallace ←
18:05:26 <alanr> I'd like to have another week to review them
Alan Ruttenberg: I'd like to have another week to review them ←
18:05:26 <uli> zakim, ??P19 is me
Uli Sattler: zakim, ??P19 is me ←
18:05:26 <Zakim> +uli; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +uli; got it ←
18:05:33 <Elisa> PROPOSED: To accept previous minutes from 15 October (http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-10-15)
PROPOSED: To accept previous minutes from 15 October (http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-10-15) ←
18:05:36 <uli> zakim, mute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←
18:05:36 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←
18:06:06 <Elisa> RESOLVED: To accept previous minutes from 15 October (http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-10-15)
RESOLVED: To accept previous minutes from 15 October (http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-10-15) ←
18:06:14 <pfps> Day 2 needs work - there are problems
Peter Patel-Schneider: Day 2 needs work - there are problems ←
18:06:25 <pfps> I sent out a message
Peter Patel-Schneider: I sent out a message ←
18:06:29 <Zakim> +??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22 ←
18:06:37 <schneid> zakim, ??P22 is me
Michael Schneider: zakim, ??P22 is me ←
18:06:37 <Zakim> +schneid; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +schneid; got it ←
18:06:44 <Elisa> PROPOSED: To accept previous minutes from F2F4 - Day 1: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-10-23
PROPOSED: To accept previous minutes from F2F4 - Day 1: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-10-23 ←
18:07:07 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:07:07 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
18:07:16 <Elisa> pfps: I just fixed some minor things in day 1
Peter Patel-Schneider: I just fixed some minor things in day 1 ←
18:07:26 <Elisa> ...otherwise day 1 looks ok
...otherwise day 1 looks ok ←
18:07:47 <Elisa> RESOLVED: To accept minutes from F2F4 Day 1: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-10-23
RESOLVED: To accept minutes from F2F4 Day 1: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-10-23 ←
18:08:25 <Elisa> Ian: Agree to postpone Day 2 minutes approval to next week
Ian Horrocks: Agree to postpone Day 2 minutes approval to next week ←
18:08:42 <Elisa> Subtopic: Action Item Status
18:09:02 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aacc ←
18:09:03 <Zakim> +??P24
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P24 ←
18:09:11 <pfps> pending review actions all look done to me
Peter Patel-Schneider: pending review actions all look done to me ←
18:09:13 <Elisa> RESOLVED: To accept pending review actions as complete/done.
RESOLVED: To accept pending review actions as complete/done. ←
18:09:19 <Zhe> zakim, mute me
18:09:19 <Zakim> sorry, Zhe, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Zhe, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←
18:09:27 <Elisa> Subtopic: Due and Overdue Actions
18:09:41 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
18:09:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Tony, Ivan, MarkusK_, msmith, Achille, Tony.a, bcuencagrau (muted), Alan, uli (muted), Sandro,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Tony, Ivan, MarkusK_, msmith, Achille, Tony.a, bcuencagrau (muted), Alan, uli (muted), Sandro, ←
18:09:45 <Zakim> ... Evan_Wallace, schneid (muted), +1.603.897.aacc, ??P24
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Evan_Wallace, schneid (muted), +1.603.897.aacc, ??P24 ←
18:09:47 <Zakim> On IRC I see Zhe, Christine, Harold, schneid, uli, bcuencagrau, Achille, dlm, ivan, msmith, bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Zhe, Christine, Harold, schneid, uli, bcuencagrau, Achille, dlm, ivan, msmith, bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, ←
18:09:49 <Zakim> ... sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: ... sandro, trackbot ←
18:09:52 <alanr> 202 is done given resolution of punning
Alan Ruttenberg: 202 is done given resolution of punning ←
18:09:56 <Zhe> zakim, +1.603.897.aacc is me
Zhe Wu: zakim, +1.603.897.aacc is me ←
18:09:56 <Zakim> +Zhe; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe; got it ←
18:10:09 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
18:10:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Tony, Ivan, MarkusK_, msmith, Achille, Tony.a, bcuencagrau (muted), Alan, uli (muted), Sandro,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Tony, Ivan, MarkusK_, msmith, Achille, Tony.a, bcuencagrau (muted), Alan, uli (muted), Sandro, ←
18:10:12 <Zakim> ... Evan_Wallace, schneid (muted), Zhe, ??P24
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Evan_Wallace, schneid (muted), Zhe, ??P24 ←
18:10:13 <Zakim> On IRC I see Zhe, Christine, Harold, schneid, uli, bcuencagrau, Achille, dlm, ivan, msmith, bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Zhe, Christine, Harold, schneid, uli, bcuencagrau, Achille, dlm, ivan, msmith, bmotik, MarkusK_, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, Carsten, Rinke, pfps, alanr, ewallace, ←
18:10:15 <Zakim> ... sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: ... sandro, trackbot ←
18:10:19 <Zhe> zakim, muteme
18:10:19 <Zakim> I don't understand 'muteme', Zhe
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'muteme', Zhe ←
18:10:24 <Zhe> zakim, mute me
18:10:24 <Zakim> Zhe should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Zhe should now be muted ←
18:10:46 <uli> zakim, ??P24 is Christine
Uli Sattler: zakim, ??P24 is Christine ←
18:10:46 <Zakim> +Christine; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Christine; got it ←
18:11:03 <Zhe> zakim, unmute me
18:11:03 <Zakim> Zhe should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Zhe should no longer be muted ←
18:12:05 <Elisa> Zhe: Regarding action 224, the action with respect to the implementation is moot, not much to do there
Zhe Wu: Regarding ACTION-224, the action with respect to the implementation is moot, not much to do there ←
18:12:18 <Elisa> ... I felt obligated to do something so I did a review
... I felt obligated to do something so I did a review ←
18:12:43 <Elisa> Christine: most of the TBDs have been done; what might be useful is to have a review of the last version
Christine Golbreich: most of the TBDs have been done; what might be useful is to have a review of the last version ←
18:12:49 <ewallace> I would call Zhe's task done
Evan Wallace: I would call Zhe's task done ←
18:13:52 <Elisa> Ian: there is a similar action on Achille - action 226
Ian Horrocks: there is a similar action on Achille - ACTION-226 ←
18:13:55 <Elisa> Achille: this should be deferred to next week, revised in tracker, but I could review the document rather than add more on the implementation section
Achille Fokoue: this should be deferred to next week, revised in tracker, but I could review the document rather than add more on the implementation section ←
18:14:15 <Elisa> Christine: I think it's the same - the implementation part is mostly done
Christine Golbreich: I think it's the same - the implementation part is mostly done ←
18:14:37 <Elisa> Ian: we can discuss the document status later in the agenda - could ask later
Ian Horrocks: we can discuss the document status later in the agenda - could ask later ←
18:15:10 <Elisa> Action 224 and 226 are done
ACTION-224 and 226 are done ←
18:15:10 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 224
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - 224 ←
18:15:18 <sandro> action-224 closed
Sandro Hawke: ACTION-224 closed ←
18:15:18 <trackbot> ACTION-224 Fill TBD implementation perspective in the Req before F2F closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-224 Fill TBD implementation perspective in the Req before F2F closed ←
18:15:22 <sandro> action-226 closed
Sandro Hawke: ACTION-226 closed ←
18:15:22 <trackbot> ACTION-226 Fill TBD implementation perspective in the Req before F2F closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-226 Fill TBD implementation perspective in the Req before F2F closed ←
18:15:48 <sandro> action-227?
18:15:48 <trackbot> ACTION-227 -- Alan Ruttenberg to email to Elisa and other interesyed person about metamodel -- due 2008-10-08 -- CLOSED
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-227 -- Alan Ruttenberg to email to Elisa and other interesyed person about metamodel -- due 2008-10-08 -- CLOSED ←
18:15:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/227
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/227 ←
18:15:49 <pfps> I think that that has been done -
Peter Patel-Schneider: I think that that has been done - ←
18:15:56 <Elisa> Regarding action 217 on Jie
Regarding ACTION-217 on Jie ←
18:16:16 <Elisa> action-217 closed
ACTION-217 closed ←
18:16:16 <trackbot> ACTION-217 Get to the RIF to ensure that RDF changes are done properly closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-217 Get to the RIF to ensure that RDF changes are done properly closed ←
18:16:38 <Elisa> action-202 closed
ACTION-202 closed ←
18:16:38 <trackbot> ACTION-202 Have another try at punning proposal in the light of discussion with peter and come up with test cases closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-202 Have another try at punning proposal in the light of discussion with peter and come up with test cases closed ←
18:16:59 <Elisa> action-240 closed
ACTION-240 closed ←
18:16:59 <trackbot> ACTION-240 Show a format for the use cases that he likes, making clear what it is and does. closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-240 Show a format for the use cases that he likes, making clear what it is and does. closed ←
18:18:05 <Elisa> Markus: is still discussing the test case issues with RIF member, but the action (239) is postponed for one week
Markus Krötzsch: is still discussing the test case issues with RIF member, but the action (239) is postponed for one week ←
18:18:19 <Elisa> action-239 closed
ACTION-239 closed ←
18:18:19 <trackbot> ACTION-239 Align OWL test case suite with RIF efforts, and to make required editorial changes to test part of "Conformance and Test Cases" closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-239 Align OWL test case suite with RIF efforts, and to make required editorial changes to test part of "Conformance and Test Cases" closed ←
18:18:35 <Elisa> Topic: Reviewing and Publishing
18:18:36 <Elisa> Subtopic: Preparations for Last Call
18:19:03 <pfps> I put some "DONE" & "MOSTLY DONE" for the stuff that I did
Peter Patel-Schneider: I put some "DONE" & "MOSTLY DONE" for the stuff that I did ←
18:19:22 <Elisa> Ian: I created a Last Call Check List to assist editors in keeping track of updates required after the F2F (http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Last_Call_Check_List)
Ian Horrocks: I created a Last Call Check List to assist editors in keeping track of updates required after the F2F (http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Last_Call_Check_List) ←
18:19:30 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
18:19:30 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
18:19:34 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:19:40 <Elisa> ... the deadline for revisions is not until next week
... the deadline for revisions is not until next week ←
18:19:53 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
18:19:53 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
18:20:00 <Elisa> Boris: I hope to have them finished next week, but the deadline is two weeks from now
Boris Motik: I hope to have them finished next week, but the deadline is two weeks from now ←
18:20:13 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Last_Call_Check_List
Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Last_Call_Check_List ←
18:20:18 <Elisa> Ian: progress is being made, no point to going through the list point by point
Ian Horrocks: progress is being made, no point to going through the list point by point ←
18:20:30 <Elisa> ... there are a few items that might be clarified
... there are a few items that might be clarified ←
18:20:38 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:20:41 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
18:20:41 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
18:20:42 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:20:44 <pfps> let the ... freeze in the dark :-)
Peter Patel-Schneider: let the ... freeze in the dark :-) ←
18:20:45 <Elisa> ... one is the problem Michael pointed out regarding IE
... one is the problem Michael pointed out regarding IE ←
18:20:48 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
18:21:12 <Elisa> Boris: my suggestion is we do nothing - there are two problems (1) IE implements the style sheet incorrectly, and
Boris Motik: my suggestion is we do nothing - there are two problems (1) IE implements the style sheet incorrectly, and ←
18:21:28 <schneid> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
18:21:32 <Elisa> (2) some of the XML entities don't show correctly
(2) some of the XML entities don't show correctly ←
18:21:43 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
18:21:43 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted ←
18:21:46 <Elisa> ... this may be partly due to fonts, but don't know what to do there
... this may be partly due to fonts, but don't know what to do there ←
18:21:48 <IanH> ack schneid
Ian Horrocks: ack schneid ←
18:22:29 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
18:22:33 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:22:35 <Elisa> Michael: I probably agree with Boris, but Bijan came up with script that checks for version and changes rendering.
Scribe problem: the name 'Michael' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Michael Smith Michael Schneider . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Michael: I probably agree with Boris, but Bijan came up with script that checks for version and changes rendering. ←
18:22:57 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:22:58 <Elisa> ... This is really hack-y, and if IE 8 fixes it, we should not worry about it
... This is really hack-y, and if IE 8 fixes it, we should not worry about it ←
18:23:00 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
18:23:02 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:23:02 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
18:23:22 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:23:34 <Elisa> Ivan: I was wondering if directly using unicode chars would work
Ivan Herman: I was wondering if directly using unicode chars would work ←
18:23:38 <schneid> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
18:23:41 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:23:44 <schneid> zakim,unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim,unmute me ←
18:23:44 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted ←
18:23:49 <IanH> ack schneid
Ian Horrocks: ack schneid ←
18:24:07 <Elisa> Michael: I answered this mail, and it's the same problem -- I checked it and had the same problem with entities
Scribe problem: the name 'Michael' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Michael Smith Michael Schneider . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Michael: I answered this mail, and it's the same problem -- I checked it and had the same problem with entities ←
18:24:09 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:24:09 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
18:24:23 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
18:24:27 <pfps> +1 to doing nothing :-)
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to doing nothing :-) ←
18:24:35 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:24:37 <Elisa> Ian: can we decide not to do anything about this, since it is not unique to us, and hopefully Microsoft will fix it
Ian Horrocks: can we decide not to do anything about this, since it is not unique to us, and hopefully Microsoft will fix it ←
18:24:39 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
18:24:42 <schneid> schneid: I had the same problem with unicode characters as with HTML entities
Michael Schneider: I had the same problem with unicode characters as with HTML entities [ Scribe Assist by Michael Schneider ] ←
18:24:45 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
18:24:45 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
18:24:58 <schneid> +1 to PDF versions
Michael Schneider: +1 to PDF versions ←
18:25:07 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
18:25:11 <Elisa> Ivan: we should also provide pdf or some similar versions of the documents, as an alternative, knowing how many people
Ivan Herman: we should also provide pdf or some similar versions of the documents, as an alternative, knowing how many people ←
18:25:16 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:25:23 <Elisa> ... are using IE -- so that we don't leave them out
... are using IE -- so that we don't leave them out ←
18:25:25 <pfps> +1 to *us* doing nothing
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to *us* doing nothing ←
18:25:38 <Elisa> Ian: is there any significant over head in producting the pdf?
Ian Horrocks: is there any significant over head in producting the pdf? ←
18:25:46 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:25:52 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:25:53 <bmotik> Zakim, unm,ute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unm,ute me ←
18:25:53 <Zakim> I don't understand 'unm,ute me', bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'unm,ute me', bmotik ←
18:25:56 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
18:25:56 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
18:25:57 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
18:25:59 <Elisa> Ivan: there are some acrobat tools that assist, and don't think it would be a major thing to do
Ivan Herman: there are some acrobat tools that assist, and don't think it would be a major thing to do ←
18:26:24 <Elisa> Boris: if it is just about printing the html, I'm ok, but am adverse to producing an entirely alternate version
Boris Motik: if it is just about printing the html, I'm ok, but am adverse to producing an entirely alternate version ←
18:26:44 <Zhe> +1
18:26:45 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:26:47 <Elisa> Ian: suppose we propose that we make our documents available in pdf for those who have trouble with their browsers
Ian Horrocks: suppose we propose that we make our documents available in pdf for those who have trouble with their browsers ←
18:26:56 <pfps> who is going to "bell this cat"?
Peter Patel-Schneider: who is going to "bell this cat"? ←
18:27:25 <Elisa> PROPOSED: we will provide pdf versions of our documents for those who need them
PROPOSED: we will provide pdf versions of our documents for those who need them ←
18:27:32 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
18:27:41 <uli> how pretty does this need to be?
Uli Sattler: how pretty does this need to be? ←
18:28:12 <Zhe> :)
18:28:17 <Elisa> Ivan: I'm not concerned with the tools - you can play with the font size to make it look better
Ivan Herman: I'm not concerned with the tools - you can play with the font size to make it look better ←
18:28:26 <sandro> PrinceXML
Sandro Hawke: PrinceXML ←
18:28:48 <Elisa> Sandro: Bijan also suggests PrinceXML
Sandro Hawke: Bijan also suggests PrinceXML ←
18:29:06 <Elisa> Ivan is volunteering to do this - needs to be done before rec
Ivan is volunteering to do this - needs to be done before rec ←
18:29:21 <Elisa> Ian: we should do this when we produce the documents for last call
Ian Horrocks: we should do this when we produce the documents for last call ←
18:29:38 <Elisa> Ivan: I'm happy to take the action
Ivan Herman: I'm happy to take the action ←
18:30:36 <Elisa> PROPOSED: That Ivan will provide pdf versions of our last call documents for those who need them
PROPOSED: That Ivan will provide pdf versions of our last call documents for those who need them ←
18:30:39 <pfps> +0.1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
Peter Patel-Schneider: +0.1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 ←
18:30:45 <IanH> +1
Ian Horrocks: +1 ←
18:30:47 <Achille> +1
Achille Fokoue: +1 ←
18:30:47 <schneid> +1
Michael Schneider: +1 ←
18:30:48 <Elisa> +1
+1 ←
18:30:49 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
18:30:49 <ewallace> +1
Evan Wallace: +1 ←
18:30:50 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
18:30:52 <msmith> +1
Michael Smith: +1 ←
18:30:52 <Zhe> +1
18:30:54 <Rinke> +1
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 ←
18:30:54 <uli> +1
Uli Sattler: +1 ←
18:30:54 <Christine> +1
Christine Golbreich: +1 ←
18:30:56 <Harold> +1
Harold Solbrig: +1 ←
18:30:59 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
18:31:02 <MarkusK_> +1
Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←
18:31:18 <ivan> another PDF generating tool: http://www.pdf995.com/
Ivan Herman: another PDF generating tool: http://www.pdf995.com/ ←
18:31:19 <Elisa> RESOLVED: That Ivan will provide pdf versions of our last call documents for those who need them
RESOLVED: That Ivan will provide pdf versions of our last call documents for those who need them ←
18:31:30 <Elisa> Action: Ivan will provide pdf versions of our last call documents for those who need them
ACTION: Ivan will provide pdf versions of our last call documents for those who need them ←
18:31:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-241 - Will provide pdf versions of our last call documents for those who need them [on Ivan Herman - due 2008-11-12].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-241 - Will provide pdf versions of our last call documents for those who need them [on Ivan Herman - due 2008-11-12]. ←
18:31:34 <MarkusK_> There is a company offering a free service for transforming wiki page collections to PDF
Markus Krötzsch: There is a company offering a free service for transforming wiki page collections to PDF ←
18:31:45 <MarkusK_> ... http://pediapress.com/collection/
Markus Krötzsch: ... http://pediapress.com/collection/ ←
18:31:59 <MarkusK_> ... Their business is in print-on-demand, PDF creation should be free
Markus Krötzsch: ... Their business is in print-on-demand, PDF creation should be free ←
18:32:28 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
18:32:29 <pfps> I'm up for "nothing"
Peter Patel-Schneider: I'm up for "nothing" ←
18:32:29 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:32:34 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
18:32:45 <bmotik> Peter, can you send a link to the IRC?
Boris Motik: Peter, can you send a link to the IRC? ←
18:33:03 <Elisa> Ian: next issue was a survey sent around by pfps on the differences between functional syntax keywords and RDF syntax URIs (see
Ian Horrocks: next issue was a survey sent around by pfps on the differences between functional syntax keywords and RDF syntax URIs (see ←
18:33:08 <IanH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Oct/0150.html
Ian Horrocks: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Oct/0150.html ←
18:33:14 <alanr> ivan: I suggested we normalize to rdf
Ivan Herman: I suggested we normalize to rdf [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←
18:33:31 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:33:31 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:33:32 <Elisa> Alan: I found a few more
Alan Ruttenberg: I found a few more ←
18:33:42 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
18:33:45 <Elisa> Ian: suggestion is to change the functional syntax
Ian Horrocks: suggestion is to change the functional syntax ←
18:34:19 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:34:22 <Elisa> Boris: we can change exists self to self restriction, but for qualified cardinality we don't want to add to the terminals for this
Boris Motik: we can change exists self to self restriction, but for qualified cardinality we don't want to add to the terminals for this ←
18:34:35 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
18:34:45 <Elisa> ... then there is the issue of DisjointClasses - I would leave the difference for this
... then there is the issue of DisjointClasses - I would leave the difference for this ←
18:34:49 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:34:57 <Elisa> Ian: but there is an issue of backwards compatibility
Ian Horrocks: but there is an issue of backwards compatibility ←
18:35:07 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:35:11 <schneid> DataProperty is probably better than owl:datatypeProperty?
Michael Schneider: DataProperty is probably better than owl:datatypeProperty? ←
18:35:43 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:35:46 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
18:35:56 <Elisa> Boris: at the level of the structural syntax, we have only DisjointClasses, whereas in the terminals we also have disjointWith ... would prefer to have only DisjointClasses
Boris Motik: at the level of the structural syntax, we have only DisjointClasses, whereas in the terminals we also have disjointWith ... would prefer to have only DisjointClasses ←
18:36:20 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:36:21 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:36:26 <Elisa> Ivan: I think there are cases where we should keep the differences, but we should use the same names where possible
Ivan Herman: I think there are cases where we should keep the differences, but we should use the same names where possible ←
18:36:45 <Elisa> ... we can't change the qualified cardinality, but I don't see why we can't align the others
... we can't change the qualified cardinality, but I don't see why we can't align the others ←
18:36:46 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
18:36:57 <Elisa> Ian: it seems we're not that far from agreement here
Ian Horrocks: it seems we're not that far from agreement here ←
18:37:20 <Elisa> ... it's really a matter of going through the list and deciding in each case what we're going to do with that thing,
... it's really a matter of going through the list and deciding in each case what we're going to do with that thing, ←
18:37:23 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:37:28 <Elisa> ... rather than going through the whole list
... rather than going through the whole list ←
18:37:53 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
18:38:03 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:38:09 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
18:38:12 <ivan> ack bmotik
Ivan Herman: ack bmotik ←
18:38:14 <Elisa> Boris: I would do one or two things in terms of what's in the list ... I would not change much except for exisits self
Boris Motik: I would do one or two things in terms of what's in the list ... I would not change much except for exisits self ←
18:38:18 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
18:39:04 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:39:08 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
18:39:16 <Elisa> Alan: in the case where we've introduced something in OWL 2 in both the functional and RDF syntax, we can certainly make a proposal there, but if there are backward compatibility issues then we'll have to deal with that
Alan Ruttenberg: in the case where we've introduced something in OWL 2 in both the functional and RDF syntax, we can certainly make a proposal there, but if there are backward compatibility issues then we'll have to deal with that ←
18:39:59 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:40:04 <Elisa> Ivan: I don't buy the argument that capitalization has to be different in the functional syntax, as it makes life difficult for those who have to go back and forth between the RDF and
Ivan Herman: I don't buy the argument that capitalization has to be different in the functional syntax, as it makes life difficult for those who have to go back and forth between the RDF and ←
18:40:13 <alanr> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/AligningSyntaxKeywords
Alan Ruttenberg: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/AligningSyntaxKeywords ←
18:40:14 <Elisa> ... functional syntax
... functional syntax ←
18:40:19 <schneid> in FS, these are /all/ functions, with different arity. in RDF, there is a clear distinction between classes (capital) and properties (non-capital)
Michael Schneider: in FS, these are /all/ functions, with different arity. in RDF, there is a clear distinction between classes (capital) and properties (non-capital) ←
18:40:30 <Elisa> ... the RDF should take precedence if the only difference is capitalizatoin
... the RDF should take precedence if the only difference is capitalizatoin ←
18:41:05 <alanr> I can
Alan Ruttenberg: I can ←
18:41:07 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:41:07 <Elisa> Ian: we should take this offline regarding what should change and not change and then come back with something more concrete
Ian Horrocks: we should take this offline regarding what should change and not change and then come back with something more concrete ←
18:41:21 <schneid> one does not really see this distinction with the FS glasses on
Michael Schneider: one does not really see this distinction with the FS glasses on ←
18:41:27 <Elisa> ... who will take the job of making a proposal from Peter's email
... who will take the job of making a proposal from Peter's email ←
18:41:34 <Elisa> Alan: I'll take it on
Alan Ruttenberg: I'll take it on ←
18:41:53 <schneid> I would be confused by different capitalization in FS
Michael Schneider: I would be confused by different capitalization in FS ←
18:41:55 <Elisa> Ian: if you would talk with Boris and Ivan on this, to get closer to agreement before coming back to us
Ian Horrocks: if you would talk with Boris and Ivan on this, to get closer to agreement before coming back to us ←
18:42:45 <Elisa> Action: Alan will make a proposal regarding naming alignment between the functional syntax and RDF syntax based on the summary from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Oct/0150.html
ACTION: Alan will make a proposal regarding naming alignment between the functional syntax and RDF syntax based on the summary from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Oct/0150.html ←
18:42:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-242 - Will make a proposal regarding naming alignment between the functional syntax and RDF syntax based on the summary from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Oct/0150.html [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-11-12].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-242 - Will make a proposal regarding naming alignment between the functional syntax and RDF syntax based on the summary from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Oct/0150.html [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-11-12]. ←
18:43:01 <MarkusK_> q+
Markus Krötzsch: q+ ←
18:43:09 <MarkusK_> http://km.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/projects/owltests/
Markus Krötzsch: http://km.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/projects/owltests/ ←
18:43:22 <Elisa> Ian: last item is the adding test cases issue - in addition to the question of the web site Markus set up, there is the issue of what we are going to do
Ian Horrocks: last item is the adding test cases issue - in addition to the question of the web site Markus set up, there is the issue of what we are going to do ←
18:43:30 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:43:33 <Elisa> ... in the test cases and conformance document
... in the test cases and conformance document ←
18:43:38 <IanH> ack MarkusK_
Ian Horrocks: ack MarkusK_ ←
18:43:46 <Elisa> Markus: the web site is not officially announced yet;
Markus Krötzsch: the web site is not officially announced yet; ←
18:44:13 <Elisa> ... we might still have changes in the schema we are going to use for the test cases, so a good time to watch this would be after next week
... we might still have changes in the schema we are going to use for the test cases, so a good time to watch this would be after next week ←
18:44:38 <Elisa> Ian: about the web site - the thing I would like to get clarity about is the test cases document itself -- are we going to have
Ian Horrocks: about the web site - the thing I would like to get clarity about is the test cases document itself -- are we going to have ←
18:44:41 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:44:45 <MarkusK_> q+
Markus Krötzsch: q+ ←
18:44:50 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:44:53 <Elisa> ... pointers to each test case, to a place where the test cases live?
... pointers to each test case, to a place where the test cases live? ←
18:44:56 <MarkusK_> q-
Markus Krötzsch: q- ←
18:45:15 <Elisa> Alan: I think it should be to where the test cases live - I'll offer a strawman on that
Alan Ruttenberg: I think it should be to where the test cases live - I'll offer a strawman on that ←
18:45:23 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
18:45:31 <msmith> q+
Michael Smith: q+ ←
18:45:32 <sandro> q+
Sandro Hawke: q+ ←
18:45:38 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:45:43 <IanH> ack msmith
Ian Horrocks: ack msmith ←
18:45:53 <Elisa> Ian: a pointer would make this more extensible in the documents
Ian Horrocks: a pointer would make this more extensible in the documents ←
18:46:07 <MarkusK_> Markus: (earlier) I am still waiting for W3C to agree on a license policy for the publicly collected test cases
Markus Krötzsch: (earlier) I am still waiting for W3C to agree on a license policy for the publicly collected test cases [ Scribe Assist by Markus Krötzsch ] ←
18:46:10 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
18:46:18 <Elisa> Michael: I agree, but we need to have a way to say which tests we've agreed on, not just any test people add,
Scribe problem: the name 'Michael' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Michael Smith Michael Schneider . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Michael: I agree, but we need to have a way to say which tests we've agreed on, not just any test people add, ←
18:46:19 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:46:24 <IanH> ack sandro
Ian Horrocks: ack sandro ←
18:46:27 <alanr> q+ to say in conformance doc how we tell the difference
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to say in conformance doc how we tell the difference ←
18:46:28 <Elisa> ... so we need a mechanism to agree on this
... so we need a mechanism to agree on this ←
18:47:01 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:47:05 <Elisa> Sandro: we need a way to lend some weight to that approval in the documents, which have been approved by the working group
Sandro Hawke: we need a way to lend some weight to that approval in the documents, which have been approved by the working group ←
18:47:06 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
18:47:06 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to say in conformance doc how we tell the difference
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to say in conformance doc how we tell the difference ←
18:47:25 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:47:28 <Elisa> Alan: we should document this in the conformance document - we should say how to tell which are approved in the conformance document
Alan Ruttenberg: we should document this in the conformance document - we should say how to tell which are approved in the conformance document ←
18:47:47 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:47:49 <MarkusK_> +1 to highlight approved tests, while keeping an external site for collecting more tests after the WG
Markus Krötzsch: +1 to highlight approved tests, while keeping an external site for collecting more tests after the WG ←
18:47:49 <Elisa> Ian: we could have two completely separate sets of tests, where the extra set is only informative
Ian Horrocks: we could have two completely separate sets of tests, where the extra set is only informative ←
18:48:27 <Elisa> ... we need to distinguish which are normative and which are informative, so there are a couple of ways to do this
... we need to distinguish which are normative and which are informative, so there are a couple of ways to do this ←
18:48:31 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:48:41 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:48:43 <MarkusK_> q+
Markus Krötzsch: q+ ←
18:49:03 <Elisa> ... mark those that are normative, and put them in the document, or point to two separate places, with one set as normative
... mark those that are normative, and put them in the document, or point to two separate places, with one set as normative ←
18:49:41 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:49:42 <Elisa> Markus: we should keep them separate, with a set that are normative called out explicitly, but continue to collect the non-normative ones
Markus Krötzsch: we should keep them separate, with a set that are normative called out explicitly, but continue to collect the non-normative ones ←
18:49:55 <IanH> ack MarkusK_
Ian Horrocks: ack MarkusK_ ←
18:50:07 <Elisa> Ian: it's a good idea, but we have to be a little bit careful of what we do from the standards perspective
Ian Horrocks: it's a good idea, but we have to be a little bit careful of what we do from the standards perspective ←
18:50:31 <schneid> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
18:50:37 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:50:45 <Elisa> ... so (1) the document contains a pointer to where the test cases live, and (2) the document also contains a pointer to a second set of tests that continue to grow as people add to them
... so (1) the document contains a pointer to where the test cases live, and (2) the document also contains a pointer to a second set of tests that continue to grow as people add to them ←
18:50:47 <msmith> point to extra tests informatively, at least
Michael Smith: point to extra tests informatively, at least ←
18:50:47 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
18:50:47 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted ←
18:50:51 <IanH> ack schneid
Ian Horrocks: ack schneid ←
18:50:54 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
18:51:07 <MarkusK_> q+
Markus Krötzsch: q+ ←
18:51:12 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:51:16 <Zakim> -Tony.a
Zakim IRC Bot: -Tony.a ←
18:51:28 <Elisa> schneid: the alternative is that we have a pointer to the normative ones in our document, and at that location we have a pointer to additional informative tests
Michael Schneider: the alternative is that we have a pointer to the normative ones in our document, and at that location we have a pointer to additional informative tests ←
18:51:30 <schneid> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:51:30 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
18:51:35 <msmith> q+ on this
Michael Smith: q+ on this ←
18:51:44 <Elisa> Ivan: do we refer to the test cases when we describe conformance?
Ivan Herman: do we refer to the test cases when we describe conformance? ←
18:51:48 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:51:49 <msmith> q-
Michael Smith: q- ←
18:51:51 <Elisa> Ian: no specific tests are mentioned
Ian Horrocks: no specific tests are mentioned ←
18:51:53 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
18:51:59 <IanH> ack MarkusK_
Ian Horrocks: ack MarkusK_ ←
18:52:29 <Elisa> Markus: I prefer to have a link in the document
Markus Krötzsch: I prefer to have a link in the document ←
18:52:34 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:52:40 <Elisa> Ian: I agree;
Ian Horrocks: I agree; ←
18:52:58 <msmith> +1
Michael Smith: +1 ←
18:53:00 <MarkusK_> +1
Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←
18:53:02 <uli> +1
Uli Sattler: +1 ←
18:53:03 <Elisa> ... there will be two pointers in the document, one to the frozen set and one to the informative growing set
... there will be two pointers in the document, one to the frozen set and one to the informative growing set ←
18:53:48 <Elisa> PROPOSED: To have two pointers in the conformance and test cases document, one to a frozen normative test set and one to an informative set that can evolve over time
PROPOSED: To have two pointers in the conformance and test cases document, one to a frozen normative test set and one to an informative set that can evolve over time ←
18:53:59 <IanH> +1
Ian Horrocks: +1 ←
18:53:59 <msmith> +1
Michael Smith: +1 ←
18:54:01 <MarkusK_> +1
Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←
18:54:01 <bcuencagrau> +1
18:54:01 <Elisa> +1
+1 ←
18:54:02 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
18:54:04 <uli> +1
Uli Sattler: +1 ←
18:54:05 <schneid> +1
Michael Schneider: +1 ←
18:54:06 <Zhe> +1
18:54:07 <Rinke> +1
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 ←
18:54:08 <ewallace> +1
Evan Wallace: +1 ←
18:54:11 <sandro> +0
Sandro Hawke: +0 ←
18:54:12 <pfps> +1
18:54:19 <Elisa> RESOLVED: To have two pointers in the conformance and test cases document, one to a frozen normative test set and one to an informative set that can evolve over time
RESOLVED: To have two pointers in the conformance and test cases document, one to a frozen normative test set and one to an informative set that can evolve over time ←
18:54:37 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:54:41 <msmith> action msmith to edit test section of test & conf to include two links and explanatory text
Michael Smith: action msmith to edit test section of test & conf to include two links and explanatory text ←
18:54:41 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - msmith
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - msmith ←
18:54:42 <Elisa> Subtopic: Remaining Documents
18:54:43 <Elisa> Ian: Remaining documents -what to do with them.
Ian Horrocks: Remaining documents -what to do with them. ←
18:54:53 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:54:57 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:55:07 <Elisa> Ian: Internationalized String Spec - what should we do with this
Ian Horrocks: Internationalized String Spec - what should we do with this ←
18:55:22 <msmith> action smith to edit test section of test & conf to include two links and explanatory text
Michael Smith: action smith to edit test section of test & conf to include two links and explanatory text ←
18:55:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-243 - Edit test section of test & conf to include two links and explanatory text [on Michael Smith - due 2008-11-12].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-243 - Edit test section of test & conf to include two links and explanatory text [on Michael Smith - due 2008-11-12]. ←
18:55:23 <pfps> I'm happy with the ISS document
Peter Patel-Schneider: I'm happy with the ISS document ←
18:55:24 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:55:26 <Zakim> -Tony
Zakim IRC Bot: -Tony ←
18:55:31 <Elisa> Boris: I had a discussion with Axel from the RIF group, and a decision was going to be made about voting on this
Boris Motik: I had a discussion with Axel from the RIF group, and a decision was going to be made about voting on this ←
18:55:32 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
18:55:51 <pfps> q+
18:55:55 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:55:56 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:55:56 <Elisa> Sandro: this didn't get on the agenda for this week, will be done next Tuesday in RIF, and we can do so on Wednesday
Sandro Hawke: this didn't get on the agenda for this week, will be done next Tuesday in RIF, and we can do so on Wednesday ←
18:56:06 <Elisa> pfps: why can't we do it now?
Peter Patel-Schneider: why can't we do it now? ←
18:56:06 <pfps> q-
18:56:10 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:56:14 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
18:56:19 <Elisa> Ian: ok - since we are happy with this
Ian Horrocks: ok - since we are happy with this ←
18:56:37 <Elisa> Boris: there is one open issue from Jeremy Carroll
Boris Motik: there is one open issue from Jeremy Carroll ←
18:57:03 <Elisa> PROPOSED: To publish the Internationalized String Specification as a first public working draft
PROPOSED: To publish the Internationalized String Specification as a first public working draft ←
18:57:05 <pfps> +1
18:57:09 <IanH> +1
Ian Horrocks: +1 ←
18:57:11 <Elisa> +1
+1 ←
18:57:13 <bcuencagrau> +1
18:57:16 <MarkusK_> +1
Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←
18:57:20 <Rinke> +1
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 ←
18:57:22 <ewallace> 0
Evan Wallace: 0 ←
18:57:22 <alanr> _1
Alan Ruttenberg: _1 ←
18:57:23 <uli> +1
Uli Sattler: +1 ←
18:57:24 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
18:57:25 <Zhe> +1
18:57:32 <schneid> should be by institute?
Michael Schneider: should be by institute? ←
18:57:36 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
18:57:38 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
18:57:41 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
18:57:41 <msmith> +1
Michael Smith: +1 ←
18:57:43 <schneid> +1
Michael Schneider: +1 ←
18:57:45 <Achille> +1
Achille Fokoue: +1 ←
18:57:55 <Christine> +1
Christine Golbreich: +1 ←
18:58:06 <Elisa> RESOLVED: To publish the Internationalized String Specification as a first public working draft
RESOLVED: To publish the Internationalized String Specification as a first public working draft ←
18:58:12 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?
Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, pointer? ←
18:58:12 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/11/05-owl-irc#T18-58-12
RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/11/05-owl-irc#T18-58-12 ←
18:58:37 <uli> but it isn't ready yet
Uli Sattler: but it isn't ready yet ←
18:58:41 <uli> indeed
Uli Sattler: indeed ←
18:58:46 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:58:51 <Elisa> Ian: the next document is the data range extension, http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Data_Range_Extension:_Linear_Equations
Ian Horrocks: the next document is the data range extension, http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Data_Range_Extension:_Linear_Equations ←
18:59:02 <uli> zakim, unmute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, unmute me ←
18:59:02 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should no longer be muted ←
18:59:08 <Elisa> ... I thought the plan was that it would be ready and be reviewed now?
... I thought the plan was that it would be ready and be reviewed now? ←
18:59:10 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:59:38 <Elisa> Uli: we've seen the reviews, the easy issues have been addressed, there are various medium pieces we can take care of by next week
Uli Sattler: we've seen the reviews, the easy issues have been addressed, there are various medium pieces we can take care of by next week ←
19:00:01 <Elisa> ... the most contentious part is the implementation part, and I'm not sure we can have this by next wek
... the most contentious part is the implementation part, and I'm not sure we can have this by next wek ←
19:00:16 <Elisa> Ian: what's your expectation of what we will do with this?
Ian Horrocks: what's your expectation of what we will do with this? ←
19:00:21 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:00:41 <Elisa> Uli: Producing this as a note would be fine
Uli Sattler: Producing this as a note would be fine ←
19:00:59 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:01:07 <Elisa> Ian: so that seems less contentious and makes the time pressure less, as it does not have to be fully formed in time for the last call
Ian Horrocks: so that seems less contentious and makes the time pressure less, as it does not have to be fully formed in time for the last call ←
19:01:36 <Elisa> Uli: One of the things was that we wanted some feedback through the reviews, and I'm not sure what they are seeing
Uli Sattler: One of the things was that we wanted some feedback through the reviews, and I'm not sure what they are seeing ←
19:01:57 <Elisa> Ian: so we need to decide what to do about issue 87 and issue 127
Ian Horrocks: so we need to decide what to do about ISSUE-87 and ISSUE-127 ←
19:01:58 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:01:58 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
19:02:08 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:02:13 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
19:02:15 <Elisa> Uli: publishing a note would only make sense if we leave the hooks in
Uli Sattler: publishing a note would only make sense if we leave the hooks in ←
19:02:40 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
19:02:46 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:02:48 <Elisa> Alan: if we put this as a note we still have the same level of standard for publication, so I would like to put the hooks at risk, in case there is discussion about that
Alan Ruttenberg: if we put this as a note we still have the same level of standard for publication, so I would like to put the hooks at risk, in case there is discussion about that ←
19:03:22 <Elisa> Boris: why do we have to put them at risk - it is clear that some version of that can be implemented, I would be open to working on this but after last call
Boris Motik: why do we have to put them at risk - it is clear that some version of that can be implemented, I would be open to working on this but after last call ←
19:03:25 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:03:30 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
19:03:35 <Elisa> ... do we really think this won't get in?
... do we really think this won't get in? ←
19:03:40 <pfps> q?
19:03:53 <pfps> q+
19:03:54 <Elisa> Alan: I don't think there is much consequence to putting this at risk
Alan Ruttenberg: I don't think there is much consequence to putting this at risk ←
19:04:17 <pfps> q-
19:04:21 <Elisa> Ian: we put it at risk but if the reviewer comments are addressed and the document is in the same shape as the others then the risk goes away
Ian Horrocks: we put it at risk but if the reviewer comments are addressed and the document is in the same shape as the others then the risk goes away ←
19:04:22 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:04:31 <Elisa> Uli: fine with me
Uli Sattler: fine with me ←
19:04:43 <pfps> maybe the "at risk" status would go away before LC even
Peter Patel-Schneider: maybe the "at risk" status would go away before LC even ←
19:04:52 <Elisa> Boris: I can't see a scenario where it doesn't happen, but I'm fine with this
Boris Motik: I can't see a scenario where it doesn't happen, but I'm fine with this ←
19:05:27 <Elisa> Ian: it wasn't clear what we would do about 87 - we would resolve 127 with this at risk thing, but
Ian Horrocks: it wasn't clear what we would do about 87 - we would resolve 127 with this at risk thing, but ←
19:05:37 <uli> zakim, mute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←
19:05:37 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←
19:06:08 <uli> we can discuss them again
Uli Sattler: we can discuss them again ←
19:06:08 <Elisa> ... we would resolve 127 by saying that the hooks are at risk given that the document achieves nirvanna(sp?)
... we would resolve 127 by saying that the hooks are at risk given that the document achieves nirvanna(sp?) ←
19:06:13 <pfps> q+
19:06:18 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:06:29 <Elisa> Alan: if it doesn't achieve nirvanna, then these at risk things would be pulled out ...
Alan Ruttenberg: if it doesn't achieve nirvanna, then these at risk things would be pulled out ... ←
19:06:43 <Zakim> -Alan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Alan ←
19:07:01 <alanr> phone died caling back in
Alan Ruttenberg: phone died caling back in ←
19:07:05 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:07:09 <uli> q+
Uli Sattler: q+ ←
19:07:22 <Elisa> pfps: I'm a little bit worried - it is extraordinarily likely that some n-ary things will be addressed, I'm worried about removing this just because we didn't dot some i
Peter Patel-Schneider: I'm a little bit worried - it is extraordinarily likely that some n-ary things will be addressed, I'm worried about removing this just because we didn't dot some i ←
19:07:26 <Zakim> +Alan_Ruttenberg
Zakim IRC Bot: +Alan_Ruttenberg ←
19:07:52 <uli> zakim, unmute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, unmute me ←
19:07:52 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should no longer be muted ←
19:08:14 <IanH> ack q?
Ian Horrocks: ack q? ←
19:08:21 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
19:08:22 <Elisa> Ian: could we soften the issue about 127 to say it would be left open and if the document doesn't come up to snuff we can discuss it again
Ian Horrocks: could we soften the issue about 127 to say it would be left open and if the document doesn't come up to snuff we can discuss it again ←
19:08:23 <IanH> ack uli
Ian Horrocks: ack uli ←
19:08:58 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
19:09:00 <uli> zakim, mute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←
19:09:00 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←
19:09:01 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:09:02 <Elisa> Uli: it is highly unlikely that we don't dot some i regarding all parts of this, and in the worst case we could pull out the more ambitious parts
Uli Sattler: it is highly unlikely that we don't dot some i regarding all parts of this, and in the worst case we could pull out the more ambitious parts ←
19:09:28 <Elisa> Alan: I would like there to be n-ary, what I don't want is hook for n-ary without actually having n-ary
Alan Ruttenberg: I would like there to be n-ary, what I don't want is hook for n-ary without actually having n-ary ←
19:09:57 <schneid> and RDF based semantics
Michael Schneider: and RDF based semantics ←
19:09:58 <Elisa> Ian: so can we agree to leave 127 open for the moment pending the document being completed, and mark it at risk in the syntax and mapping documents
Ian Horrocks: so can we agree to leave 127 open for the moment pending the document being completed, and mark it at risk in the syntax and mapping documents ←
19:10:30 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
19:10:31 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:10:35 <Elisa> Ian: so it is not clear to me what to do about 87
Ian Horrocks: so it is not clear to me what to do about 87 ←
19:10:37 <schneid> RDF based semantics also has the "nary hooks"
Michael Schneider: RDF based semantics also has the "nary hooks" ←
19:10:38 <pfps> q+
19:10:38 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
19:10:56 <Elisa> Alan: I was wondering - there was some issue regarding whether this is a datatype or another kind of literal
Alan Ruttenberg: I was wondering - there was some issue regarding whether this is a datatype or another kind of literal ←
19:10:57 <uli> a datatype
Uli Sattler: a datatype ←
19:11:13 <Elisa> Ian: I believe its a datatype
Ian Horrocks: I believe its a datatype ←
19:11:18 <schneid> rational would be subtype of real
Michael Schneider: rational would be subtype of real ←
19:11:29 <msmith> q+
Michael Smith: q+ ←
19:11:31 <Elisa> Ian: can you represent them all as reals?
Ian Horrocks: can you represent them all as reals? ←
19:11:32 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:11:39 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
19:11:41 <pfps> ack pfps
Peter Patel-Schneider: ack pfps ←
19:11:50 <Elisa> pfps: rationals are a small subset of reals
Peter Patel-Schneider: rationals are a small subset of reals ←
19:11:55 <IanH> ack msmith
Ian Horrocks: ack msmith ←
19:11:55 <pfps> "1/3"^^owl:real
Peter Patel-Schneider: "1/3"^^owl:real ←
19:12:01 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:12:02 <alanr> we don't have 1/1 for datatypes to lexical forms
Alan Ruttenberg: we don't have 1/1 for datatypes to lexical forms ←
19:12:07 <Elisa> Michael: there was no way to represent them lexically
Scribe problem: the name 'Michael' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Michael Smith Michael Schneider . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Michael: there was no way to represent them lexically ←
19:12:22 <pfps> "pi"^^owl:real ??
Peter Patel-Schneider: "pi"^^owl:real ?? ←
19:12:40 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
19:12:44 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
19:12:48 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:12:51 <Elisa> Ian: so if people implement the n-ary extension, they would also implement this additional datatype
Ian Horrocks: so if people implement the n-ary extension, they would also implement this additional datatype ←
19:12:53 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
19:12:58 <msmith> msmith: I believe rational is needed as a datatype for lexical, not just value space
Michael Smith: I believe rational is needed as a datatype for lexical, not just value space [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ] ←
19:13:02 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
19:13:04 <uli> i thought they did
Uli Sattler: i thought they did ←
19:13:07 <pfps> q+
19:13:10 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:13:13 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
19:13:18 <Elisa> Alan: I still don't see the need for the dataset, just the lexical form
Alan Ruttenberg: I still don't see the need for the dataset, just the lexical form ←
19:13:22 <pfps> q-
19:13:27 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:13:38 <msmith> msmith: I think they can be merged into the linear data range extension
Michael Smith: I think they can be merged into the linear data range extension [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ] ←
19:13:39 <Elisa> Boris: I don't see any danger in adding another datatype
Boris Motik: I don't see any danger in adding another datatype ←
19:13:58 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:13:59 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
19:14:04 <Elisa> ... all the existing datatypes would fall under rational and we would have it for symmetry
... all the existing datatypes would fall under rational and we would have it for symmetry ←
19:14:37 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:14:38 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
19:14:42 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
19:14:49 <Elisa> Alan: there was an issue regarding whether an equation was satisfiable over rationals vs. satisfiable over reals ... does this add an issue for reasoners
Alan Ruttenberg: there was an issue regarding whether an equation was satisfiable over rationals vs. satisfiable over reals ... does this add an issue for reasoners ←
19:15:09 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:15:14 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
19:15:22 <Elisa> Boris: I don't really see this - we would be no worse off if we have it
Boris Motik: I don't really see this - we would be no worse off if we have it ←
19:15:39 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
19:15:42 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:15:43 <msmith> q+
Michael Smith: q+ ←
19:15:43 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
19:15:45 <Elisa> Ian: do we want to add the lexical form? if the answer to that is no, then there is no need to add the datatype
Ian Horrocks: do we want to add the lexical form? if the answer to that is no, then there is no need to add the datatype ←
19:15:54 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
19:16:05 <Elisa> ... we could do what Mike suggested and make it part of the extension
... we could do what Mike suggested and make it part of the extension ←
19:16:46 <IanH> ack msmith
Ian Horrocks: ack msmith ←
19:16:48 <Elisa> Boris: I don't see a problem, except that this is something they should have done in XML schema ...
Boris Motik: I don't see a problem, except that this is something they should have done in XML schema ... ←
19:17:10 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
19:17:21 <Elisa> Michael: a number of the use cases Bijan had were to simply be able to write 1/3
Scribe problem: the name 'Michael' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Michael Smith Michael Schneider . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Michael: a number of the use cases Bijan had were to simply be able to write 1/3 ←
19:17:26 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
19:17:40 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:17:45 <Elisa> Ian: we're all agreed that we should at least have the lexical form
Ian Horrocks: we're all agreed that we should at least have the lexical form ←
19:17:46 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
19:17:48 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:18:00 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
19:18:14 <msmith> +1 to desire for symmetry
Michael Smith: +1 to desire for symmetry ←
19:18:18 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:18:21 <Elisa> Boris: I'm against just adding it as a lexical form and not adding the corresponding datatype - I would put these together, and don't see any problems with having it there
Boris Motik: I'm against just adding it as a lexical form and not adding the corresponding datatype - I would put these together, and don't see any problems with having it there ←
19:18:22 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
19:18:27 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
19:18:38 <msmith> q+
Michael Smith: q+ ←
19:19:02 <Elisa> Alan: every integer literal is a real as well, so I would just look at the lexical for rational as another way of specifying real ... perhaps this just needs to be talked through a bit more
Alan Ruttenberg: every integer literal is a real as well, so I would just look at the lexical for rational as another way of specifying real ... perhaps this just needs to be talked through a bit more ←
19:19:23 <Elisa> Ian: let's try to push this to next week to come back with a proposal to resolve
Ian Horrocks: let's try to push this to next week to come back with a proposal to resolve ←
19:19:36 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
19:20:37 <Elisa> Boris: it is true that every rational data value is an owl real value, but if you look at the structural syntax specification, you have separate datatypes with literals based on datatypes in other cases
Boris Motik: it is true that every rational data value is an owl real value, but if you look at the structural syntax specification, you have separate datatypes with literals based on datatypes in other cases ←
19:20:39 <msmith> q-
Michael Smith: q- ←
19:20:46 <msmith> yup
Michael Smith: yup ←
19:20:52 <Elisa> ... the datatype would allow us to hang the lexical specification off that
... the datatype would allow us to hang the lexical specification off that ←
19:21:20 <Elisa> Ian: let's come back next week with a proposal via email to resolve this, and we know where we're going with the data range extension
Ian Horrocks: let's come back next week with a proposal via email to resolve this, and we know where we're going with the data range extension ←
19:21:27 <schneid> just as the interpretation of "1.0"^^xsd:double is an integer, but the literal is not an xsd:integer literal
Michael Schneider: just as the interpretation of "1.0"^^xsd:double is an integer, but the literal is not an xsd:integer literal ←
19:21:31 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:21:36 <pfps> q+
19:21:42 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:21:46 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
19:21:51 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
19:21:53 <Elisa> Ian: Quick Reference Guide - are we ready to publish a first public working draft
Ian Horrocks: Quick Reference Guide - are we ready to publish a first public working draft ←
19:21:58 <uli> +1
Uli Sattler: +1 ←
19:22:06 <Elisa> pfps: I think it's ready
Peter Patel-Schneider: I think it's ready ←
19:22:09 <Christine> +q
Christine Golbreich: +q ←
19:22:17 <uli> i reviewed it!
Uli Sattler: i reviewed it! ←
19:22:19 <ivan> :-)
Ivan Herman: :-) ←
19:22:41 <uli> why?
Uli Sattler: why? ←
19:22:44 <ivan> why?
Ivan Herman: why? ←
19:22:47 <Elisa> Christine: we should cut the examples section at the end ..
Christine Golbreich: we should cut the examples section at the end .. ←
19:22:49 <uli> zakim, unmute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, unmute me ←
19:22:49 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should no longer be muted ←
19:22:51 <pfps> no need for FPWD
Peter Patel-Schneider: no need for FPWD ←
19:22:56 <uli> zakim, mute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←
19:22:56 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←
19:23:05 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:23:12 <IanH> ack Christine
Ian Horrocks: ack Christine ←
19:23:29 <Elisa> Christine: because it's not finished, and is redundant with examples in the other documents - it's not a good place for them
Christine Golbreich: because it's not finished, and is redundant with examples in the other documents - it's not a good place for them ←
19:23:53 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:24:04 <Elisa> Ian: to be fair, I'm not sure quite why the examples are needed there ...
Ian Horrocks: to be fair, I'm not sure quite why the examples are needed there ... ←
19:24:18 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:25:03 <ewallace> Elisa: I believe that Jie included the examples because his quick ref had examples
Elisa Kendall: I believe that Jie included the examples because his quick ref had examples [ Scribe Assist by Evan Wallace ] ←
19:25:17 <pfps> I would be OK with the examples being removed, but I don't see them as a problem (at least right now)
Peter Patel-Schneider: I would be OK with the examples being removed, but I don't see them as a problem (at least right now) ←
19:25:18 <ewallace> ... I am not sure these are required in such a document.
Evan Wallace: ... I am not sure these are required in such a document. ←
19:25:25 <Elisa> Christine: the document is general on OWL2 and the examples are specific
Christine Golbreich: the document is general on OWL2 and the examples are specific ←
19:25:52 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
19:26:01 <Elisa> Ian: people seemed to think this document was in reasonable shape, so we could publish it as a FPWD ...
Ian Horrocks: people seemed to think this document was in reasonable shape, so we could publish it as a FPWD ... ←
19:26:02 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:26:15 <Elisa> Christine: I think we should get rid of it and then publish it
Christine Golbreich: I think we should get rid of it and then publish it ←
19:26:16 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:26:17 <uli> q+
Uli Sattler: q+ ←
19:26:19 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
19:26:25 <Zakim> -Zhe
Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe ←
19:26:44 <Elisa> Ivan: having had a very quick look at this, there are certain constructions of OWL that are fairly complicated when you put them in RDF
Ivan Herman: having had a very quick look at this, there are certain constructions of OWL that are fairly complicated when you put them in RDF ←
19:27:00 <Elisa> ... having examples here that focus on those cases is useful for the average reader
... having examples here that focus on those cases is useful for the average reader ←
19:27:05 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:27:14 <IanH> ack uli
Ian Horrocks: ack uli ←
19:27:15 <uli> zakim, unmute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, unmute me ←
19:27:17 <Zakim> uli was not muted, uli
Zakim IRC Bot: uli was not muted, uli ←
19:27:44 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
19:28:24 <Elisa> Uli: I noticed one thing that I didn't pay attention to before - authors aren't ordered lexically ... should be editors, done separately / permuted
Uli Sattler: I noticed one thing that I didn't pay attention to before - authors aren't ordered lexically ... should be editors, done separately / permuted ←
19:28:31 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:28:32 <uli> zakim, unmute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, unmute me ←
19:28:32 <Zakim> uli was not muted, uli
Zakim IRC Bot: uli was not muted, uli ←
19:28:37 <alanr> q-
Alan Ruttenberg: q- ←
19:28:38 <uli> zakim, mute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←
19:28:39 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←
19:29:11 <Elisa> Ian: in spite of questions about the examples section, I'm inclined to move it to FPWD, and put it out for feedback
Ian Horrocks: in spite of questions about the examples section, I'm inclined to move it to FPWD, and put it out for feedback ←
19:29:52 <Elisa> PROPOSED: To publish the Quick Reference Guide as a first public working draft (see http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Quick_Reference_Guide
PROPOSED: To publish the Quick Reference Guide as a first public working draft (see http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Quick_Reference_Guide ←
19:29:54 <pfps> +1 for *FPWD* publication
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 for *FPWD* publication ←
19:30:07 <ewallace> +1 (NIST)
Evan Wallace: +1 (NIST) ←
19:30:08 <ivan> +1 (W3C)
Ivan Herman: +1 (W3C) ←
19:30:09 <MarkusK_> +1 (FZI)
Markus Krötzsch: +1 (FZI) ←
19:30:11 <Rinke> +1 (UvA)
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 (UvA) ←
19:30:13 <Elisa> +1 (Sandpiper)
+1 (Sandpiper) ←
19:30:14 <Achille> +1 (IBM)
Achille Fokoue: +1 (IBM) ←
19:30:15 <Christine> +1 (UVSQ)
Christine Golbreich: +1 (UVSQ) ←
19:30:16 <uli> +1 (UoM)
Uli Sattler: +1 (UoM) ←
19:30:17 <alanr> +1 (Science Commons)
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 (Science Commons) ←
19:30:17 <pfps> +1 for *FPWD* publication (Alcatel-Lucent)
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 for *FPWD* publication (Alcatel-Lucent) ←
19:30:21 <msmith> +1 (C&P)
Michael Smith: +1 (C&P) ←
19:30:22 <bmotik> +1 (Oxford)
Boris Motik: +1 (Oxford) ←
19:30:26 <dlm> +1 (RPI)
Deborah McGuinness: +1 (RPI) ←
19:30:36 <Zhe> +1 (ORACLE)
19:30:44 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:31:06 <pfps> is it a LC document? If not, then no need
Peter Patel-Schneider: is it a LC document? If not, then no need ←
19:31:18 <Elisa> RESOLVED: To publish the Quick Reference Guide as a first public working draft (see http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Quick_Reference_Guide (html only)
RESOLVED: To publish the Quick Reference Guide as a first public working draft (see http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Quick_Reference_Guide (html only) ←
19:31:38 <alanr> I can't
Alan Ruttenberg: I can't ←
19:31:44 <Achille> I
Achille Fokoue: I ←
19:31:46 <ewallace> I can
Evan Wallace: I can ←
19:31:48 <Achille> I can't
Achille Fokoue: I can't ←
19:31:48 <bmotik> I can
Boris Motik: I can ←
19:31:50 <ivan> yep
Ivan Herman: yep ←
19:31:52 <pfps> fine
Peter Patel-Schneider: fine ←
19:31:54 <uli> I could
Uli Sattler: I could ←
19:31:56 <Zakim> -Rinke
Zakim IRC Bot: -Rinke ←
19:32:02 <Zakim> -Achille
Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille ←
19:32:07 <alanr> ok
Alan Ruttenberg: ok ←
19:32:14 <Zakim> -Alan_Ruttenberg
Zakim IRC Bot: -Alan_Ruttenberg ←
19:32:37 <Elisa> Ian: status of requirements document - quite a bit of work has been done, and we have offers for additional review
Ian Horrocks: status of requirements document - quite a bit of work has been done, and we have offers for additional review ←
19:32:38 <ewallace> I think it's ready for FPWD pub.
Evan Wallace: I think it's ready for FPWD pub. ←
19:32:45 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:32:50 <Elisa> ... is this document ready for FPWD?
... is this document ready for FPWD? ←
19:33:16 <Elisa> Christine: yes, I think it is ready, and there are no contentious issues remaining
Christine Golbreich: yes, I think it is ready, and there are no contentious issues remaining ←
19:33:16 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:33:24 <Elisa> +1 for FPWD
+1 for FPWD ←
19:33:37 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
19:33:41 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
19:33:50 <Elisa> Ian: I'm happy to publish it as a FPWD if everyone else is in favor
Ian Horrocks: I'm happy to publish it as a FPWD if everyone else is in favor ←
19:34:09 <ewallace> Did we tell Alan that no decisions would be made?
Evan Wallace: Did we tell Alan that no decisions would be made? ←
19:34:09 <bcuencagrau> +1
19:34:25 <msmith> +1
Michael Smith: +1 ←
19:34:27 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
19:34:32 <Elisa> PROPOSED: To publish the Requirements document as a first public working draft (see http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft)
PROPOSED: To publish the Requirements document as a first public working draft (see http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft) ←
19:34:33 <Christine> +1
Christine Golbreich: +1 ←
19:34:35 <pfps> +1 to publish (Alcatel-Lucent) :-)
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to publish (Alcatel-Lucent) :-) ←
19:34:37 <MarkusK_> +1 (FZI)
Markus Krötzsch: +1 (FZI) ←
19:34:54 <Elisa> +1 (Sandpiper)
+1 (Sandpiper) ←
19:34:58 <ivan> +1 (W3C)
Ivan Herman: +1 (W3C) ←
19:35:08 <ewallace> +1 (NIST) for FPWD of Reqs/features
Evan Wallace: +1 (NIST) for FPWD of Reqs/features ←
19:35:13 <Elisa> RESOLVED: To publish the Requirements document as a first public working draft (see http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft)
RESOLVED: To publish the Requirements document as a first public working draft (see http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft) ←
19:35:27 <uli> +1
Uli Sattler: +1 ←
19:35:59 <Elisa> Ian: there are numerous versions of this document floating around in the wiki -- can we make sure that all of the pointers are redirected to the FPWD?
Ian Horrocks: there are numerous versions of this document floating around in the wiki -- can we make sure that all of the pointers are redirected to the FPWD? ←
19:36:20 <Elisa> Ian: we should put this document in the standard place in the wiki rather than a redirection.
Ian Horrocks: we should put this document in the standard place in the wiki rather than a redirection. ←
19:36:23 <MarkusK_> +1 to still make redirects for the old versions
Markus Krötzsch: +1 to still make redirects for the old versions ←
19:36:48 <sandro> agreed -- redirect from all old URLs
Sandro Hawke: agreed -- redirect from all old URLs ←
19:37:14 <sandro> new location should be: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Requirements or http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/UCR
Sandro Hawke: new location should be: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Requirements or http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/UCR ←
19:37:30 <Elisa> Markus: I want to have redirects at the old places so people with the old versions are not confused. there should be one version, but redirects from the older locations
Markus Krötzsch: I want to have redirects at the old places so people with the old versions are not confused. there should be one version, but redirects from the older locations ←
19:37:52 <Elisa> Ian: we can take the details of where it lives offline
Ian Horrocks: we can take the details of where it lives offline ←
19:38:15 <Elisa> Sandro: which one did we agree to publish?
Sandro Hawke: which one did we agree to publish? ←
19:38:17 <Christine> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/OWL2NewFeatures
Christine Golbreich: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/OWL2NewFeatures ←
19:39:03 <Elisa> Ian: AOB?
Ian Horrocks: AOB? ←
19:39:14 <uli> bye
Uli Sattler: bye ←
19:39:14 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
19:39:16 <Zakim> -msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith ←
19:39:18 <Zakim> -bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik ←
19:39:20 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace
Zakim IRC Bot: -Evan_Wallace ←
19:39:21 <Zakim> -Peter_Patel-Schneider
Zakim IRC Bot: -Peter_Patel-Schneider ←
19:39:22 <Zakim> -bcuencagrau
Zakim IRC Bot: -bcuencagrau ←
19:39:24 <Zakim> -uli
Zakim IRC Bot: -uli ←
19:39:32 <Zakim> -MarkusK_
Zakim IRC Bot: -MarkusK_ ←
19:39:36 <Zakim> -schneid
Zakim IRC Bot: -schneid ←
19:39:45 <Zakim> -Christine
Zakim IRC Bot: -Christine ←
19:42:29 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
19:43:51 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
19:43:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see Elisa_Kendall, IanH
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Elisa_Kendall, IanH ←
19:43:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see alanr, Christine, msmith, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, ewallace, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see alanr, Christine, msmith, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Elisa, ewallace, sandro, trackbot ←
Formatted by CommonScribe