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16:53:59 <scribenick> PRESENT: bijan (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, IanH, calvanese, baojie, uli (muted), Ivan (muted), bmotik (muted), Zhe, Ratnesh, christine, clu, bernardo, Alan_Ruttenberg, Evan, msmith, Markus
Scribe problem: the name 'clu' does not match any of the 51 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Christine Golbreich Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Diego Calvanese Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman Jeff Pan Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Kendall Clark Markus Krötzsch Markus Stocker Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Michel Dumontier Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Rob Shearer Sandro Hawke Suzette Stoutenburg Thomas Schneider Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu
Scribe problem: the name 'Markus' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Markus Stocker Markus Krötzsch . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
16:53:59 <scribenick> REGRETS: Michael Schneider
16:53:59 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-owl-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-owl-irc ←
16:54:07 <bmotik> rrsagent. make log public
Boris Motik: rrsagent. make log public ←
16:54:14 <bmotik> rrsagent, make log public
Boris Motik: rrsagent, make log public ←
16:54:55 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has now started ←
16:54:59 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
16:54:59 <Zakim> sorry, bijan, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, bijan, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←
16:55:02 <Zakim> +??P7
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7 ←
16:55:07 <bijan> zakim, ??p7 is me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, ??p7 is me ←
16:55:07 <Zakim> +bijan; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan; got it ←
16:55:12 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
16:55:12 <Zakim> sorry, bijan, muting is not permitted when only one person is present
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, bijan, muting is not permitted when only one person is present ←
16:55:16 <bijan> Grr
Bijan Parsia: Grr ←
16:56:16 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider
Zakim IRC Bot: +Peter_Patel-Schneider ←
16:56:18 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
16:56:18 <Zakim> sorry, pfps, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, pfps, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←
16:56:23 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
16:56:23 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
16:56:33 <Zakim> + +39.047.101.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +39.047.101.aaaa ←
16:57:00 <calvanese> zakim, aaaa is me
Diego Calvanese: zakim, aaaa is me ←
16:57:00 <Zakim> +calvanese; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +calvanese; got it ←
16:57:01 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
16:57:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, calvanese
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, calvanese ←
16:57:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see IanH, baojie, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, pfps, calvanese, clu, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see IanH, baojie, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, pfps, calvanese, clu, sandro, trackbot ←
16:57:13 <Zakim> -calvanese
Zakim IRC Bot: -calvanese ←
16:58:01 <Zakim> +IanH
Zakim IRC Bot: +IanH ←
16:58:07 <Zakim> +calvanese
Zakim IRC Bot: +calvanese ←
16:58:59 <IanH> ScribeNick: calvanese
(Scribe set to Diego Calvanese)
16:59:35 <uli> hm, dialling in seems to be difficult today
Uli Sattler: hm, dialling in seems to be difficult today ←
16:59:47 <Zakim> +baojie
Zakim IRC Bot: +baojie ←
17:00:00 <Zakim> +??P16
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P16 ←
17:00:04 <Zakim> +??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17 ←
17:00:05 <bmotik> Zakim, ??P16 is me
Boris Motik: Zakim, ??P16 is me ←
17:00:06 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it ←
17:00:12 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
17:00:13 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
17:00:16 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
17:00:18 <Zakim> -bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik ←
17:00:27 <uli> zakim, ??P17 is me
Uli Sattler: zakim, ??P17 is me ←
17:00:28 <Zakim> +uli; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +uli; got it ←
17:00:30 <ivan> zakim, mute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me ←
17:00:30 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted ←
17:00:38 <Zakim> +??P16
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P16 ←
17:00:42 <bmotik> Zakim, ??P16 is me
Boris Motik: Zakim, ??P16 is me ←
17:00:42 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it ←
17:00:46 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:00:46 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:00:48 <uli> zakim, mute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←
17:00:48 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←
17:01:11 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
17:01:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, IanH, calvanese, baojie, uli (muted), Ivan (muted), bmotik (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, IanH, calvanese, baojie, uli (muted), Ivan (muted), bmotik (muted) ←
17:01:13 <Zakim> On IRC I see ivan, uli, IanH, baojie, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, pfps, calvanese, clu, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see ivan, uli, IanH, baojie, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, pfps, calvanese, clu, sandro, trackbot ←
17:01:33 <calvanese> Topic: Admin
17:01:40 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
17:01:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, IanH, calvanese, baojie, uli (muted), Ivan (muted), bmotik (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, IanH, calvanese, baojie, uli (muted), Ivan (muted), bmotik (muted) ←
17:01:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see Zhe, Ratnesh, ivan, uli, IanH, baojie, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, pfps, calvanese, clu, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Zhe, Ratnesh, ivan, uli, IanH, baojie, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, pfps, calvanese, clu, sandro, trackbot ←
17:01:43 <Zakim> +Zhe
Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe ←
17:01:49 <calvanese> IanH: roll call
Ian Horrocks: roll call ←
17:01:55 <pfps> q+
17:01:59 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:02:00 <calvanese> IanH: agenda amendments?
Ian Horrocks: agenda amendments? ←
17:02:09 <Zhe> zakim, mute me
17:02:09 <Zakim> Zhe should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Zhe should now be muted ←
17:02:15 <bijan> +2
Bijan Parsia: +2 ←
17:02:27 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:02:36 <IanH> ack ??p17
Ian Horrocks: ack ??p17 ←
17:02:38 <uli> q-
Uli Sattler: q- ←
17:02:38 <pfps> q-
17:02:40 <Zakim> +??P20
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P20 ←
17:02:43 <Zakim> +??P24
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P24 ←
17:02:45 <uli> 56
Uli Sattler: 56 ←
17:02:51 <Zakim> -??P24
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P24 ←
17:02:52 <Ratnesh> Zakim, ??P20 is me
Ratnesh Sahay: Zakim, ??P20 is me ←
17:02:53 <Zakim> +Ratnesh; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ratnesh; got it ←
17:03:00 <pfps> pfps: propose to put issue-56 into "under consideration for resolution" section
Peter Patel-Schneider: propose to put ISSUE-56 into "under consideration for resolution" section [ Scribe Assist by Peter Patel-Schneider ] ←
17:03:02 <calvanese> pfps: pfps move issue 56 under consideration for resolution
Peter Patel-Schneider: pfps move ISSUE-56 under consideration for resolution ←
17:03:21 <calvanese> IanH: moved
Ian Horrocks: moved ←
17:03:24 <Zakim> + +49.421.218.6.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +49.421.218.6.aabb ←
17:03:28 <Zakim> +??P28
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P28 ←
17:03:34 <calvanese> Ianh: no other amendments
Ian Horrocks: no other amendments ←
17:03:37 <pfps> minutes are OK
Peter Patel-Schneider: minutes are OK ←
17:03:37 <uli> yes
Uli Sattler: yes ←
17:03:40 <clu> zakim, aabb is me
Unknown clu: zakim, aabb is me ←
17:03:40 <Zakim> +clu; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +clu; got it ←
17:03:40 <uli> look fine
Uli Sattler: look fine ←
17:03:40 <calvanese> IanH: previous minutes?
Ian Horrocks: previous minutes? ←
17:03:41 <Zakim> +Alan_Ruttenberg
Zakim IRC Bot: +Alan_Ruttenberg ←
17:03:44 <clu> zakim, mute me
Unknown clu: zakim, mute me ←
17:03:45 <Zakim> clu should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: clu should now be muted ←
17:03:53 <Zakim> +msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: +msmith ←
17:03:58 <calvanese> RESOLVED: accept previous minutes
RESOLVED: accept previous minutes ←
17:04:30 <calvanese> IanH: action item status
Ian Horrocks: action item status ←
17:04:50 <calvanese> ... no pending review actions
... no pending review actions ←
17:05:03 <calvanese> ... due and overdue actions
... due and overdue actions ←
17:05:13 <calvanese> ... Action 189
... ACTION-189 ←
17:05:34 <pfps> isn't action-189 for reviewing mapping for the *previous* publication?
Peter Patel-Schneider: isn't ACTION-189 for reviewing mapping for the *previous* publication? ←
17:06:04 <calvanese> ... alan: proposes to close the action
... alan: proposes to close the action ←
17:06:21 <Zakim> +??P32
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P32 ←
17:06:21 <calvanese> RESOLVED: close action 189
RESOLVED: close ACTION-189 ←
17:06:28 <bernardo> Zakim, ??P32 is me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, ??P32 is me ←
17:06:28 <Zakim> +bernardo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bernardo; got it ←
17:06:32 <bernardo> Zakim, mute me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me ←
17:06:32 <Zakim> bernardo should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bernardo should now be muted ←
17:06:58 <calvanese> Ianh: action 217
17:07:25 <baojie> Jie Bao
17:07:34 <calvanese> baojie: continue for another week
Jie Bao: continue for another week ←
17:07:53 <pfps> q+
17:08:00 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:08:04 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
17:08:06 <calvanese> IanH: action amendments for agenda F2F next week?
Ian Horrocks: action amendments for agenda F2F next week? ←
17:08:26 <calvanese> pfps: sent email on amendment
Peter Patel-Schneider: sent email on amendment ←
17:08:37 <calvanese> ... there is a disturbing asymmetry
... there is a disturbing asymmetry ←
17:08:40 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
17:08:47 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
17:09:33 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:09:39 <calvanese> alanr: have a session where to discuss options
Alan Ruttenberg: have a session where to discuss options ←
17:10:18 <calvanese> IanH: discuss later on agenda amendment
Ian Horrocks: discuss later on agenda amendment ←
17:10:24 <calvanese> pfps: sounds fine
Peter Patel-Schneider: sounds fine ←
17:10:40 <calvanese> Ianh: no other agenda amendments
Ian Horrocks: no other agenda amendments ←
17:11:06 <pfps> q-
17:11:13 <calvanese> ... no teleconf next week because of F2F
... no teleconf next week because of F2F ←
17:11:26 <calvanese> Topic: reviewing and publishing
17:11:43 <calvanese> Ianh: first public draft published oct. 8
Ian Horrocks: first public draft published oct. 8 ←
17:11:51 <uli> thanks, Sandro and others!
Uli Sattler: thanks, Sandro and others! ←
17:11:52 <pfps> hear, hear!
Peter Patel-Schneider: hear, hear! ←
17:11:54 <calvanese> ... thank to all editors and contributors
... thank to all editors and contributors ←
17:11:56 <ivan> clap clap clap
Ivan Herman: clap clap clap ←
17:11:56 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:12:20 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace
Zakim IRC Bot: +Evan_Wallace ←
17:12:28 <calvanese> Ianh: reviewing remaining documents
Ian Horrocks: reviewing remaining documents ←
17:12:31 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:12:50 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:11:26 <calvanese> SubTopic: Manchester Syntax
17:12:51 <calvanese> alanr: my review is not fully completed. not satisfied
Alan Ruttenberg: my review is not fully completed. not satisfied ←
17:12:56 <calvanese> ... not sure how to proceed
... not sure how to proceed ←
17:12:56 <bijan> q-
Bijan Parsia: q- ←
17:13:00 <bijan> THat was my question
Bijan Parsia: THat was my question ←
17:13:14 <calvanese> Ianh: does this affect finishing the review?
Ian Horrocks: does this affect finishing the review? ←
17:13:26 <calvanese> alanr: no, I'll finish the review
Alan Ruttenberg: no, I'll finish the review ←
17:14:01 <Zakim> +??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21 ←
17:14:10 <calvanese> IanH: comment that alan is not satisfied with editor's response. not sure how to proceed
Ian Horrocks: comment that alan is not satisfied with editor's response. not sure how to proceed ←
17:14:17 <calvanese> alanr: take it as issue
Alan Ruttenberg: take it as issue ←
17:14:24 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
17:14:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, IanH, calvanese, baojie, uli (muted), Ivan (muted), bmotik (muted), Zhe (muted), Ratnesh, clu (muted), MarkusK_,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, IanH, calvanese, baojie, uli (muted), Ivan (muted), bmotik (muted), Zhe (muted), Ratnesh, clu (muted), MarkusK_, ←
17:14:33 <Zakim> ... Alan_Ruttenberg, msmith, bernardo (muted), Evan_Wallace, ??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Alan_Ruttenberg, msmith, bernardo (muted), Evan_Wallace, ??P21 ←
17:14:38 <Zakim> On IRC I see cgolbrei, ewallace, bernardo, msmith, alanr, bmotik, MarkusK_, Zhe, Ratnesh, ivan, uli, IanH, baojie, RRSAgent, Zakim, bijan, pfps, calvanese, clu, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see cgolbrei, ewallace, bernardo, msmith, alanr, bmotik, MarkusK_, Zhe, Ratnesh, ivan, uli, IanH, baojie, RRSAgent, Zakim, bijan, pfps, calvanese, clu, sandro, trackbot ←
17:14:40 <cgolbrei> ??P21 cgolbrei
Christine Golbreich: ??P21 cgolbrei ←
17:14:46 <calvanese> Ianh: alan will submit an issue on this
Ian Horrocks: alan will submit an issue on this ←
17:14:55 <ivan> zakim, ??P21 is christine
Ivan Herman: zakim, ??P21 is christine ←
17:14:55 <Zakim> +christine; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +christine; got it ←
17:14:55 <uli> zakim, ??P21 is cgolbrei
Uli Sattler: zakim, ??P21 is cgolbrei ←
17:14:56 <Zakim> I already had ??P21 as christine, uli
Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P21 as christine, uli ←
17:11:26 <calvanese> SubTopic: Quick Reference Guide
17:15:02 <calvanese> Ianh: anything to report on quick reference guide
Ian Horrocks: anything to report on quick reference guide ←
17:15:05 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:15:41 <calvanese> Zhe: at meeting of task force decided to redesign the card(?)
Zhe Wu: at meeting of task force decided to redesign the card(?) ←
17:15:58 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
17:16:06 <ivan> zakim, unmute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute me ←
17:16:06 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should no longer be muted ←
17:16:06 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:16:08 <baojie> http://tw.rpi.edu/portal/OWL_2_Reference_Card_v2
Jie Bao: http://tw.rpi.edu/portal/OWL_2_Reference_Card_v2 ←
17:16:29 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:16:32 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack evan ←
17:16:36 <calvanese> IanH: when new version of card(?) available, then new reviewing round
Ian Horrocks: when new version of card(?) available, then new reviewing round ←
17:16:47 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:17:13 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:17:19 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:17:19 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
17:17:22 <calvanese> Ianh: proposes to close reviewing actions on the card
Ian Horrocks: proposes to close reviewing actions on the card ←
17:17:24 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:17:35 <calvanese> bijan: why developed on external wiki?
Bijan Parsia: why developed on external wiki? ←
17:17:53 <uli> baojie
Uli Sattler: baojie ←
17:18:04 <uli> ...answered to Bijan
Uli Sattler: ...answered to Bijan ←
17:18:07 <ivan> +1 to bijan
Ivan Herman: +1 to bijan ←
17:18:13 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:18:13 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:18:14 <calvanese> ... we should do all the working group work on the working group wiki
... we should do all the working group work on the working group wiki ←
17:18:28 <calvanese> ACTION: move reference card work on owl wiki
ACTION: move reference card work on owl wiki ←
17:18:28 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - move
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - move ←
17:19:00 <calvanese> ACTION: baojie move reference card work on owl wiki
ACTION: baojie move reference card work on owl wiki ←
17:19:00 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - baojie
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - baojie ←
17:19:02 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:19:13 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:19:13 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
17:19:20 <baojie> try Jie Bao?
17:19:23 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:19:25 <pfps> ACTION: JieBao move reference card work on owl wiki
ACTION: JieBao move reference card work on owl wiki ←
17:19:25 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - JieBao
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - JieBao ←
17:20:30 <calvanese> IanH: can BiJan discuss this with task force
Ian Horrocks: can BiJan discuss this with task force ←
17:20:49 <calvanese> bijan: ok
Bijan Parsia: ok ←
17:21:03 <calvanese> SubTopic: Requirements
17:21:03 <calvanese> IanH: what is the latest state with requirement?
Ian Horrocks: what is the latest state with requirement? ←
17:21:13 <bijan> Bijan: I was wondering if the TF has determined whether they'll use HTML for the quick reference card.
Bijan Parsia: I was wondering if the TF has determined whether they'll use HTML for the quick reference card. [ Scribe Assist by Bijan Parsia ] ←
17:21:16 <uli> Diego, this is cgolbrei
Uli Sattler: Diego, this is cgolbrei ←
17:21:33 <calvanese> cgolbrei: since review updated requirements to take into account comments
Christine Golbreich: since review updated requirements to take into account comments ←
17:22:20 <calvanese> ... actions till Oct. 20 to be done. by then we will have a complete version of requirements
... actions till Oct. 20 to be done. by then we will have a complete version of requirements ←
17:22:27 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:22:31 <bijan> q-
Bijan Parsia: q- ←
17:22:31 <ewallace> yes
Evan Wallace: yes ←
17:22:35 <calvanese> ... in touch with Ivan to improve narrative of usecases
... in touch with Evan to improve narrative of usecases ←
17:22:41 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:22:44 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:22:44 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:22:51 <cgolbrei> evan
Christine Golbreich: evan ←
17:22:51 <ivan> :-)
Ivan Herman: :-) ←
17:22:53 <calvanese> IanH: so good progress has been done
Ian Horrocks: so good progress has been done ←
17:22:55 <uli> s/Ivan/Evan
17:22:57 <bijan> I've not reviewed the requirements in quite some time
Bijan Parsia: I've not reviewed the requirements in quite some time ←
17:22:59 <ivan> s/ivan/evan/
17:22:59 <calvanese> s/ivan/evan
17:23:05 <baojie> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Quick_Reference_Guide QRG is transferred to OWL Wiki
Jie Bao: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Quick_Reference_Guide QRG is transferred to OWL Wiki ←
17:23:09 <calvanese> s/ivan/evan/
17:23:15 <bijan> I've had reservations about it...if we hit a point where you'd like my (critical) feedback, let me know
Bijan Parsia: I've had reservations about it...if we hit a point where you'd like my (critical) feedback, let me know ←
17:23:25 <calvanese> Topic: Issues
17:24:17 <calvanese> IanH: there are a few issues remaining that have been talked to death, but still no clear right or wrong answer
Ian Horrocks: there are a few issues remaining that have been talked to death, but still no clear right or wrong answer ←
17:24:44 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:24:49 <calvanese> ... we have just to vote with a majority on these. this is the reason for the slight change of title on this first part of the issues
... we have just to vote with a majority on these. this is the reason for the slight change of title on this first part of the issues ←
17:25:01 <calvanese> IanH: no procedural questions
Ian Horrocks: no procedural questions ←
17:25:14 <calvanese> SubTopic: Issue 109
17:25:14 <calvanese> IanH: Issue 109 about namespaces
Ian Horrocks: ISSUE-109 about namespaces ←
17:25:28 <IanH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Apr/0187.html
Ian Horrocks: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Apr/0187.html ←
17:25:46 <calvanese> IanH: this email contains a reasonable summary of the issue
Ian Horrocks: this email contains a reasonable summary of the issue ←
17:25:48 <bijan> that's the proposal
Bijan Parsia: that's the proposal ←
17:26:05 <pfps> Ian posted in one of my messages. Ivan is free to agree with it.
Peter Patel-Schneider: Ian posted in one of my messages. Ivan is free to agree with it. ←
17:26:10 <calvanese> ivan: this is Peter's email, not mine
Ivan Herman: this is Peter's email, not mine ←
17:26:20 <IanH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jun/0031.html
Ian Horrocks: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jun/0031.html ←
17:26:33 <calvanese> IanH: this is the one from Ivan that summarizes the discussion
Ian Horrocks: this is the one from Ivan that summarizes the discussion ←
17:27:05 <bijan> Key bit:
Bijan Parsia: Key bit: ←
17:27:06 <bijan> From that point on the disagreement between Bijan and me is, I believe,
Bijan Parsia: From that point on the disagreement between Bijan and me is, I believe, ←
17:27:06 <bijan> a kind of a judgement call:
Bijan Parsia: a kind of a judgement call: ←
17:27:06 <bijan> - Bijan believes that introducing a _different_ URI for the purpose of
Bijan Parsia: - Bijan believes that introducing a _different_ URI for the purpose of ←
17:27:07 <bijan> #2 is too expensive, so to say, in terms of the user community, and that
Bijan Parsia: #2 is too expensive, so to say, in terms of the user community, and that ←
17:27:07 <bijan> issue of this extra 'price' should have a higher priority than other
Bijan Parsia: issue of this extra 'price' should have a higher priority than other ←
17:27:07 <calvanese> IanH: Ivan gives a short summary of the issue
Ian Horrocks: Ivan gives a short summary of the issue ←
17:27:08 <bijan> considerations
Bijan Parsia: considerations ←
17:27:10 <bijan> - I am concerned that mixing two very different features/roles on the
Bijan Parsia: - I am concerned that mixing two very different features/roles on the ←
17:27:12 <bijan> same URI is not a clear design and may be misleading (see also my remark
Bijan Parsia: same URI is not a clear design and may be misleading (see also my remark ←
17:27:14 <bijan> below), and I do not feel the 'price' referred to by Bijan to be high
Bijan Parsia: below), and I do not feel the 'price' referred to by Bijan to be high ←
17:27:16 <bijan> enough to overrule this concern.
Bijan Parsia: enough to overrule this concern. ←
17:28:01 <calvanese> Ivan: summarizes issue 109
Ivan Herman: summarizes ISSUE-109 ←
17:28:07 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:28:40 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:28:44 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:28:44 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
17:28:46 <calvanese> IanH: there is no new info to bring on this issue
Ian Horrocks: there is no new info to bring on this issue ←
17:29:17 <calvanese> bijan: would like to see a pointer to another place that says that it is bad engineering practice
Bijan Parsia: would like to see a pointer to another place that says that it is bad engineering practice ←
17:29:56 <calvanese> ... it is not just a beaty contest, since it changes how I have to write software
... it is not just a beaty contest, since it changes how I have to write software ←
17:30:03 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:30:03 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:30:16 <bijan> I've shown material effects!
Bijan Parsia: I've shown material effects! ←
17:30:28 <bijan> Yep
Bijan Parsia: Yep ←
17:30:31 <bijan> Yes
Bijan Parsia: Yes ←
17:30:35 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:30:38 <bijan> q-
Bijan Parsia: q- ←
17:30:39 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
17:30:40 <calvanese> IanH: the long discussion we already had didn't seem to converge
Ian Horrocks: the long discussion we already had didn't seem to converge ←
17:30:44 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:30:44 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:31:22 <bijan> If there's a -1 then ask if we're going to lie down in the road
Bijan Parsia: If there's a -1 then ask if we're going to lie down in the road ←
17:31:47 <calvanese> IanH: we could start with a straw poll first, and then try to find out which direction people are going
Ian Horrocks: we could start with a straw poll first, and then try to find out which direction people are going ←
17:31:58 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
17:32:02 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:32:29 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
17:32:31 <bijan> "lie down in the road" is old w3c lingo for "make a formal objection"
Bijan Parsia: "lie down in the road" is old w3c lingo for "make a formal objection" ←
17:32:33 <ivan> ack alanr
Ivan Herman: ack alanr ←
17:32:38 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
17:32:58 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
17:33:02 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:33:03 <pfps> Straw Poll: same = same namespace, different = different namespace (caps for road kill)??
Peter Patel-Schneider: Straw Poll: same = same namespace, different = different namespace (caps for road kill)?? ←
17:33:21 <calvanese> ivan: whatever the outcome is, w3c does not want to use this as a formal objection.
Ivan Herman: whatever the outcome is, w3c does not want to use this as a formal objection. ←
17:33:39 <calvanese> ... we will go with the majority, and would not make a formal objection out of that
... we will go with the majority, and would not make a formal objection out of that ←
17:33:47 <bijan> Manchester has not determined whether we'd formally object
Bijan Parsia: Manchester has not determined whether we'd formally object ←
17:34:02 <pfps> mixed case for Manchester :-)
Peter Patel-Schneider: mixed case for Manchester :-) ←
17:34:06 <calvanese> IanH: straw poll
Ian Horrocks: straw poll ←
17:34:09 <ewallace> 0
Evan Wallace: 0 ←
17:34:12 <baojie> 0
17:34:14 <ivan> different
Ivan Herman: different ←
17:34:14 <pfps> same
Peter Patel-Schneider: same ←
17:34:18 <bijan> same
Bijan Parsia: same ←
17:34:40 <IanH> STRAWPOLL: same = same namespace, different = different, 0 = don't care
STRAWPOLL: same = same namespace, different = different, 0 = don't care ←
17:34:50 <Zhe> 0
17:34:50 <pfps> ame :-)
Peter Patel-Schneider: ame :-) ←
17:34:51 <bijan> ame
Bijan Parsia: ame ←
17:34:52 <ewallace> 0
Evan Wallace: 0 ←
17:34:53 <msmith> same
Michael Smith: same ←
17:34:53 <ivan> different
Ivan Herman: different ←
17:35:00 <uli> same
Uli Sattler: same ←
17:35:03 <bmotik> 0
Boris Motik: 0 ←
17:35:04 <bernardo> same
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: same ←
17:35:04 <cgolbrei> same
Christine Golbreich: same ←
17:35:05 <alanr> 0
Alan Ruttenberg: 0 ←
17:35:05 <baojie> 0
17:35:05 <MarkusK_> same
Scribe problem: the name 'MarkusK_' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Peter Patel-Schneider Ian Horrocks Diego Calvanese Jie Bao Uli Sattler Ivan Herman Boris Motik Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Christine Golbreich Unknown clu Bernardo Cuenca Grau Alan Ruttenberg Evan Wallace Michael Smith Unknown Markus Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'MarkusK_' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Peter Patel-Schneider Ian Horrocks Diego Calvanese Jie Bao Uli Sattler Ivan Herman Boris Motik Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Christine Golbreich Unknown clu Bernardo Cuenca Grau Alan Ruttenberg Evan Wallace Michael Smith Unknown Markus Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown MarkusK_: same ←
17:35:10 <calvanese> 0
0 ←
17:35:13 <clu> 0
Unknown clu: 0 ←
17:35:42 <bijan> Yes
Bijan Parsia: Yes ←
17:36:04 <calvanese> IanH; same is in vast majority. sandro sent email that he would vote "different"
IanH; same is in vast majority. sandro sent email that he would vote "different" ←
17:36:14 <alanr> also manchester
Alan Ruttenberg: also manchester ←
17:36:33 <bijan> So are we settled?
Bijan Parsia: So are we settled? ←
17:36:58 <calvanese> IanH: only W3C voting different
Ian Horrocks: only W3C voting different ←
17:37:11 <calvanese> IanH: let's have now a formal vote
Ian Horrocks: let's have now a formal vote ←
17:37:58 <IanH> PROPOSAL: close issue-109 by resolving to use a single namespace for everything and that that namespace is the old OWL namespace and that we use it for the XML syntax elements and attributes.
PROPOSED: close ISSUE-109 by resolving to use a single namespace for everything and that that namespace is the old OWL namespace and that we use it for the XML syntax elements and attributes. ←
17:38:11 <bijan> Ok by me
Bijan Parsia: Ok by me ←
17:38:21 <pfps> I believe that the above is adequate
Peter Patel-Schneider: I believe that the above is adequate ←
17:38:29 <pfps> q+
17:38:35 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:38:40 <bijan> Separate issue?
Bijan Parsia: Separate issue? ←
17:38:40 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
17:38:44 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:38:46 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
17:38:56 <calvanese> pfps: there is a proposal for attributes having no namespace
Peter Patel-Schneider: there is a proposal for attributes having no namespace ←
17:39:38 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:39:38 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:39:50 <uli> or add (pending decision about namespacing of attributes in general)
Uli Sattler: or add (pending decision about namespacing of attributes in general) ←
17:39:54 <IanH> PROPOSAL: close issue-109 by resolving to use a single namespace for everything and that namespace is the old OWL namespace and that we use it for the XML syntax elements and attributes.
PROPOSED: close ISSUE-109 by resolving to use a single namespace for everything and that namespace is the old OWL namespace and that we use it for the XML syntax elements and attributes. ←
17:39:58 <ewallace> 0 NIST
Evan Wallace: 0 NIST ←
17:39:59 <pfps> +1 (Alcatel-Lucent)
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 (Alcatel-Lucent) ←
17:40:01 <uli> +1 (Manchester)
Uli Sattler: +1 (Manchester) ←
17:40:03 <MarkusK_> +1 (FZI)
Scribe problem: the name 'MarkusK_' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Peter Patel-Schneider Ian Horrocks Diego Calvanese Jie Bao Uli Sattler Ivan Herman Boris Motik Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Christine Golbreich Unknown clu Bernardo Cuenca Grau Alan Ruttenberg Evan Wallace Michael Smith Unknown Markus Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'MarkusK_' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Peter Patel-Schneider Ian Horrocks Diego Calvanese Jie Bao Uli Sattler Ivan Herman Boris Motik Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Christine Golbreich Unknown clu Bernardo Cuenca Grau Alan Ruttenberg Evan Wallace Michael Smith Unknown Markus Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown MarkusK_: +1 (FZI) ←
17:40:04 <msmith> +1 (C&P)
Michael Smith: +1 (C&P) ←
17:40:05 <ivan> -1 (W3C)
Ivan Herman: -1 (W3C) ←
17:40:09 <bernardo> 0 (OX)
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: 0 (OX) ←
17:40:09 <baojie> +1 (RPI)
17:40:09 <alanr> 0 (Science Commons)
Alan Ruttenberg: 0 (Science Commons) ←
17:40:11 <calvanese> 0 (FUB)
0 (FUB) ←
17:40:15 <cgolbrei> +1 uvsq
Christine Golbreich: +1 uvsq ←
17:40:17 <Zhe> 0 (ORACLE)
17:40:39 <IanH> RESOLVED: close issue-109 by resolving to use a single namespace for everything and that namespace is the old OWL namespace and that we use it for the XML syntax elements and attributes.
RESOLVED: close ISSUE-109 by resolving to use a single namespace for everything and that namespace is the old OWL namespace and that we use it for the XML syntax elements and attributes. ←
17:40:50 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:41:01 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:41:07 <calvanese> pfps: can we resolve the part on attributes now?
Peter Patel-Schneider: can we resolve the part on attributes now? ←
17:41:08 <bijan> But I've heard no objection
Bijan Parsia: But I've heard no objection ←
17:41:11 <bijan> Sandro is for it
Bijan Parsia: Sandro is for it ←
17:41:18 <bijan> All discussion is positive
Bijan Parsia: All discussion is positive ←
17:41:34 <pfps> let's go for it!
Peter Patel-Schneider: let's go for it! ←
17:41:40 <calvanese> IanH: have we discussed this adequately, and are we in a position to decide on it now?
Ian Horrocks: have we discussed this adequately, and are we in a position to decide on it now? ←
17:41:44 <bijan> And it's standard XML practice
Bijan Parsia: And it's standard XML practice ←
17:41:48 <calvanese> ivan: seems to be a nobrainer
Ivan Herman: seems to be a nobrainer ←
17:41:55 <bijan> Yes
Bijan Parsia: Yes ←
17:42:03 <IanH> PROPOSAL: attributes should have no namespace.
PROPOSED: attributes should have no namespace. ←
17:42:11 <bijan> attirbutes in owl/xml
Bijan Parsia: attirbutes in owl/xml ←
17:42:35 <IanH> PROPOSAL: attributes in owl/xml should have no namespace.
PROPOSED: attributes in owl/xml should have no namespace. ←
17:42:36 <bijan> +1
Bijan Parsia: +1 ←
17:42:41 <ivan> 1
Ivan Herman: 1 ←
17:42:45 <pfps> +1 (Alcatel-Lucent)
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 (Alcatel-Lucent) ←
17:42:47 <MarkusK_> +1 (FZI)
Scribe problem: the name 'MarkusK_' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Peter Patel-Schneider Ian Horrocks Diego Calvanese Jie Bao Uli Sattler Ivan Herman Boris Motik Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Christine Golbreich Unknown clu Bernardo Cuenca Grau Alan Ruttenberg Evan Wallace Michael Smith Unknown Markus Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'MarkusK_' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Peter Patel-Schneider Ian Horrocks Diego Calvanese Jie Bao Uli Sattler Ivan Herman Boris Motik Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Christine Golbreich Unknown clu Bernardo Cuenca Grau Alan Ruttenberg Evan Wallace Michael Smith Unknown Markus Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown MarkusK_: +1 (FZI) ←
17:42:48 <uli> +1
Uli Sattler: +1 ←
17:42:49 <Zhe> +1 (ORACLE)
17:42:49 <alanr> +1 (Science Commons)
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 (Science Commons) ←
17:42:50 <ewallace> +1 (NIST)
Evan Wallace: +1 (NIST) ←
17:42:51 <ivan> 1 (W3C)
Ivan Herman: 1 (W3C) ←
17:42:55 <msmith> +1 (C&P)
Michael Smith: +1 (C&P) ←
17:42:57 <IanH> +1
Ian Horrocks: +1 ←
17:42:59 <Ratnesh> +1 (DERI)
Ratnesh Sahay: +1 (DERI) ←
17:43:02 <baojie> 1(RPI)
17:43:05 <bernardo> +1
17:43:06 <calvanese> +1 (FUB)
+1 (FUB) ←
17:43:12 <cgolbrei> +1 (UVSQ)
Christine Golbreich: +1 (UVSQ) ←
17:43:16 <IanH> RESOLVED: attributes in owl/xml should have no namespace.
RESOLVED: attributes in owl/xml should have no namespace. ←
17:43:35 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:43:50 <calvanese> SubTopic: Issue 114
17:43:50 <calvanese> IanH: Issue 114 - which combinations of punning should be allowed?
Ian Horrocks: ISSUE-114 - which combinations of punning should be allowed? ←
17:43:58 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:44:04 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
17:44:10 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:44:14 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
17:44:15 <calvanese> ... nobody seems to object to the proposal for resolution
... nobody seems to object to the proposal for resolution ←
17:44:15 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:44:38 <uli> Alan, you phone line comes and goes
Uli Sattler: Alan, you phone line comes and goes ←
17:45:03 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:45:05 <pfps> q+
17:45:09 <calvanese> alanr: summarizes issue 114
Alan Ruttenberg: summarizes ISSUE-114 ←
17:45:31 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:45:31 <Zakim> bijan was already muted, bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was already muted, bijan ←
17:45:43 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:45:52 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:45:52 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:46:06 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:46:10 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
17:46:33 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:46:36 <uli> yes
Uli Sattler: yes ←
17:46:44 <uli> yes
Uli Sattler: yes ←
17:46:46 <bernardo> yes
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: yes ←
17:46:47 <calvanese> bmotik: i think I have a good set of answers to alan's questions
Boris Motik: i think I have a good set of answers to alan's questions ←
17:46:51 <msmith> yes, I can hear you both fine
Michael Smith: yes, I can hear you both fine ←
17:47:09 <uli> re-dial?
Uli Sattler: re-dial? ←
17:47:12 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:47:12 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
17:47:20 <bijan> Ian can can you hear me?
Bijan Parsia: Ian can can you hear me? ←
17:47:38 <alanr> ok I've got
Alan Ruttenberg: ok I've got ←
17:47:41 <alanr> it
Alan Ruttenberg: it ←
17:47:42 <uli> we still hear you
Uli Sattler: we still hear you ←
17:47:48 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:47:48 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:48:28 <calvanese> bmotik: the rhs of annotiations would also be URIs
Boris Motik: the rhs of annotiations would also be URIs ←
17:48:48 <calvanese> ... this is technical, and difficult to discuss via phone
... this is technical, and difficult to discuss via phone ←
17:49:27 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:49:30 <calvanese> IanH: it would be fare to postpone the discussion today, and have a discussion via email. then resolve it at the F2F
Ian Horrocks: it would be fare to postpone the discussion today, and have a discussion via email. then resolve it at the F2F ←
17:49:35 <pfps> q-
17:50:23 <calvanese> SubTopic: Issue 138
17:50:23 <calvanese> IanH: Issue 138 on name of dateTime
Ian Horrocks: ISSUE-138 on name of dateTime ←
17:50:34 <calvanese> pfps: summarizes issue
Peter Patel-Schneider: summarizes issue ←
17:50:36 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:50:40 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
17:50:41 <msmith> q+
Michael Smith: q+ ←
17:50:49 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
17:51:23 <pfps> q+
17:51:32 <calvanese> ivan: clarify next week with the XML schema people all remaining questions
Ivan Herman: clarify next week with the XML schema people all remaining questions ←
17:51:36 <IanH> ack msmith
Ian Horrocks: ack msmith ←
17:51:57 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
17:51:58 <calvanese> msmith: there is still an issue with identity being different
Michael Smith: there is still an issue with identity being different ←
17:52:15 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:52:15 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:52:28 <bijan> Isnt' this just words?
Bijan Parsia: Isnt' this just words? ←
17:52:40 <msmith> q+
Michael Smith: q+ ←
17:52:43 <bijan> I.e., does it matter if we call our identity "xsd equality"?
Bijan Parsia: I.e., does it matter if we call our identity "xsd equality"? ←
17:52:50 <calvanese> pfps: xml schema 1.1 identity is data structure identity. we are not using that as our semantic notion of identity. we are using equality
Peter Patel-Schneider: xml schema 1.1 identity is data structure identity. we are not using that as our semantic notion of identity. we are using equality ←
17:53:17 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:53:25 <calvanese> msmith: I will try to find out when the xml-schema people meet next week
Ivan Herman: I will try to find out when the xml-schema people meet next week ←
17:53:38 <pfps> s/msmith/ivan/
17:53:59 <bmotik> q+ to answer this
Boris Motik: q+ to answer this ←
17:54:05 <IanH> ack msmith
Ian Horrocks: ack msmith ←
17:54:12 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:54:12 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:54:21 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
17:54:21 <Zakim> bmotik, you wanted to answer this
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik, you wanted to answer this ←
17:54:37 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:55:11 <pfps> there is explicit wording in the xsd 1.1 document saying that smushing real and double is OK
Peter Patel-Schneider: there is explicit wording in the xsd 1.1 document saying that smushing real and double is OK ←
17:55:28 <msmith> ok
Michael Smith: ok ←
17:55:31 <msmith> I'm happier, thanks
Michael Smith: I'm happier, thanks ←
17:55:32 <calvanese> bmotik: we are doing here something similar to what done with numbers in general
Boris Motik: we are doing here something similar to what done with numbers in general ←
17:55:46 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:56:00 <calvanese> IanH: we postpone issue 138 till we speak with the xml-schema people
Ian Horrocks: we postpone ISSUE-138 till we speak with the xml-schema people ←
17:57:16 <calvanese> SubTopic: Issue 56
17:57:16 <calvanese> IanH: as agreed at the beginning, we are moving issue 56 forward
Ian Horrocks: as agreed at the beginning, we are moving ISSUE-56 forward ←
17:57:20 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:57:25 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:58:04 <calvanese> pfps: the issue is out of scope for our working group. there are better places to discuss it
Peter Patel-Schneider: the issue is out of scope for our working group. there are better places to discuss it ←
17:58:13 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:58:16 <calvanese> ... e.g. OWLED
... e.g. OWLED ←
17:58:27 <alanr> misunderstanding
Alan Ruttenberg: misunderstanding ←
17:58:32 <alanr> no SHOULDs involved
Alan Ruttenberg: no SHOULDs involved ←
17:58:35 <alanr> WG Note
Alan Ruttenberg: WG Note ←
17:58:53 <bijan> I have a meta point
Bijan Parsia: I have a meta point ←
17:59:01 <calvanese> pfps: summarizes the issue, and explain what "this" is
Peter Patel-Schneider: summarizes the issue, and explain what "this" is ←
17:59:02 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:59:02 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
17:59:35 <calvanese> bparsia: I don't see that a discussion would change people's positions
Bijan Parsia: I don't see that a discussion would change people's positions ←
17:59:40 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:59:40 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:59:40 <ivan> an aside: Michael SperbergMcQueen will not be in Mandelieu:-( But Henry Thompson and Liam Quinn will be there
Ivan Herman: an aside: Michael SperbergMcQueen will not be in Mandelieu:-( But Henry Thompson and Liam Quinn will be there ←
18:00:03 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
18:00:07 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:00:11 <pfps> q+
18:01:11 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:01:12 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
18:01:12 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
18:01:17 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
18:02:08 <calvanese> pfps: owled would allow us to do the work on this outside the working group, and save resources
Peter Patel-Schneider: owled would allow us to do the work on this outside the working group, and save resources ←
18:02:17 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:02:21 <pfps> pfps: my view of the issue is to prepare a document that specifies repairs that tools should do to move RDF documents to OWL 2 Dl
Peter Patel-Schneider: my view of the issue is to prepare a document that specifies repairs that tools should do to move RDF documents to OWL 2 Dl [ Scribe Assist by Peter Patel-Schneider ] ←
18:02:21 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack bparsia ←
18:02:26 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
18:02:26 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
18:02:32 <calvanese> s/pfps/bparsia/
18:02:50 <calvanese> pfps: I agree with bijan
Peter Patel-Schneider: I agree with bijan ←
18:02:58 <msmith> yes, bijan is the only Pellet person at the f2f
Michael Smith: yes, bijan is the only Pellet person at the f2f ←
18:03:10 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:03:35 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
18:03:38 <bijan> Manchester qua OWL Lint (CO-ODE) don't want to do it either :)
Bijan Parsia: Manchester qua OWL Lint (CO-ODE) don't want to do it either :) ←
18:03:39 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:03:50 <pfps> i'm not interested in doing it at the F2F
Peter Patel-Schneider: i'm not interested in doing it at the F2F ←
18:04:00 <bijan> Why?
Bijan Parsia: Why? ←
18:04:04 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:04:05 <pfps> yes, why?
Peter Patel-Schneider: yes, why? ←
18:04:07 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
18:04:18 <msmith> q+
Michael Smith: q+ ←
18:04:25 <calvanese> IanH: the question seems to be whether to discuss this in the working group or ouside, not whether to discuss this at all
Ian Horrocks: the question seems to be whether to discuss this in the working group or ouside, not whether to discuss this at all ←
18:04:27 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:04:35 <msmith> q-
Michael Smith: q- ←
18:04:38 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
18:04:49 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:05:10 <msmith> +1 to Ivan. From Pellet implementer perspective, this is not high priority in WG time
Michael Smith: +1 to Ivan. From Pellet implementer perspective, this is not high priority in WG time ←
18:05:20 <pfps> +1 to Ivan
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to Ivan ←
18:05:25 <bijan> +1 to ivan
Bijan Parsia: +1 to ivan ←
18:05:30 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:06:01 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
18:06:01 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
18:06:04 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:06:12 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
18:06:28 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
18:06:32 <calvanese> IanH: we can decide at the beginning of the f2f whether we discuss this
Ian Horrocks: we can decide at the beginning of the f2f whether we discuss this ←
18:07:06 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:07:17 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
18:07:17 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
18:07:18 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
18:07:34 <calvanese> IanH: bijan, is it ok to leave deciding on that at the beginning of the f2f?
Ian Horrocks: bijan, is it ok to leave deciding on that at the beginning of the f2f? ←
18:07:39 <pfps> pointer please!
Peter Patel-Schneider: pointer please! ←
18:07:40 <bijan> I have *always* objected to doing in the wg
Bijan Parsia: I have *always* objected to doing in the wg ←
18:07:46 <pfps> q+
18:07:47 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
18:07:49 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
18:07:49 <Zakim> bijan was already muted, bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was already muted, bijan ←
18:07:50 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:07:53 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
18:07:53 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
18:08:16 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
18:08:37 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:08:44 <ewallace> roadmap discussion, future tasks for life of OWL WG
Evan Wallace: roadmap discussion, future tasks for life of OWL WG ←
18:09:32 <calvanese> alanr: I would not object to rename the session at the f2f from "discussion on issue 56" to "discussion on open issues"
Alan Ruttenberg: I would not object to rename the session at the f2f from "discussion on ISSUE-56" to "discussion on open issues" ←
18:09:34 <pfps> pfps: I don't remember a straw poll on repairs - I would like a pointer
Peter Patel-Schneider: I don't remember a straw poll on repairs - I would like a pointer [ Scribe Assist by Peter Patel-Schneider ] ←
18:09:37 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:09:43 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
18:09:48 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
18:10:10 <alanr> Nor did I suggest that Bijan said that
Alan Ruttenberg: Nor did I suggest that Bijan said that ←
18:10:23 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
18:10:23 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
18:10:32 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:10:42 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
18:10:42 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
18:11:00 <calvanese> animated discssion going on between alanr, bijan
animated discssion going on between alanr, bijan ←
18:11:00 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:11:13 <calvanese> PROPOSED: amend agenda of f2f
PROPOSED: amend agenda of f2f ←
18:11:20 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
18:11:20 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
18:12:18 <calvanese> RESOLVED: amend agenda of f2f such that session on issue 56 is changed to "discussion on future working group activities"
RESOLVED: amend agenda of f2f such that session on ISSUE-56 is changed to "discussion on future working group activities" ←
18:12:39 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
18:12:39 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:12:54 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
18:13:03 <pfps> q+
18:13:08 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
18:13:16 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:13:20 <calvanese> SubTopic: Issue 145
18:13:20 <calvanese> IanH: we move to issue 145
Ian Horrocks: we move to ISSUE-145 ←
18:13:50 <calvanese> alanr: summarizes issue 145
Alan Ruttenberg: summarizes ISSUE-145 ←
18:13:54 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:14:16 <bijan> application/xml+owl
Bijan Parsia: application/xml+owl ←
18:14:23 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
18:14:35 <bijan> what's the question?
Bijan Parsia: what's the question? ←
18:14:45 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:14:55 <calvanese> pfps: I have nothing against having mime types for the manchester syntax etc., but I am confused why the xml syntax should have a mime type
Peter Patel-Schneider: I have nothing against having mime types for the manchester syntax etc., but I am confused why the xml syntax should have a mime type ←
18:14:58 <alanr> Sandro said
Alan Ruttenberg: Sandro said ←
18:14:59 <alanr> The Last Call drafts for any syntax we expect to be transmitted over the
Alan Ruttenberg: The Last Call drafts for any syntax we expect to be transmitted over the ←
18:14:59 <alanr> web need to include mime type registrations. For example, see the one I
Alan Ruttenberg: web need to include mime type registrations. For example, see the one I ←
18:14:59 <alanr> did for RIF BLD:
Alan Ruttenberg: did for RIF BLD: ←
18:15:00 <alanr> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-rif-bld-20080730/#Appendix:_RIF_Media_Type_Registration
Alan Ruttenberg: http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-rif-bld-20080730/#Appendix:_RIF_Media_Type_Registration ←
18:15:00 <alanr> So someone needs to draft that for the OWL XML serialization.
Alan Ruttenberg: So someone needs to draft that for the OWL XML serialization. ←
18:15:07 <bijan> It's pretty easy
Bijan Parsia: It's pretty easy ←
18:15:09 <alanr> end of what sandro said
Alan Ruttenberg: end of what sandro said ←
18:15:11 <IanH> Question is: do we*need* a mime type for the XML syntax
Ian Horrocks: Question is: do we*need* a mime type for the XML syntax ←
18:15:14 <bijan> but tedious
Bijan Parsia: but tedious ←
18:15:18 <calvanese> ivan: to have a mime type we have to officially submit a request to ???
Ivan Herman: to have a mime type we have to officially submit a request to IETF ←
18:15:20 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:15:26 <ivan> s/???/IETF/
18:15:27 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
18:15:59 <bijan> Example registration: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3870.txt
Bijan Parsia: Example registration: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3870.txt ←
18:16:19 <calvanese> ivan: the obvious serialization of owl will inherti the mime type from RDF, so this is not an issue
Ivan Herman: the obvious serialization of owl will inherti the mime type from RDF, so this is not an issue ←
18:16:39 <pfps> register early, register often :-0
Peter Patel-Schneider: register early, register often :-0 ←
18:16:46 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:16:54 <calvanese> IanH: is there any downside to registering mime types for the various syntaxes?
Ian Horrocks: is there any downside to registering mime types for the various syntaxes? ←
18:17:20 <pfps> sandro :-)
Peter Patel-Schneider: sandro :-) ←
18:17:57 <calvanese> IanH: we can take this offiline
Ian Horrocks: we can take this offiline ←
18:18:14 <calvanese> ACTION: IanH to find a volunteer for this
ACTION: IanH to find a volunteer for this ←
18:18:14 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - IanH
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - IanH ←
18:18:16 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:18:49 <calvanese> SubTopic: Issue 142
18:18:49 <calvanese> IanH: move to Issue 142
Ian Horrocks: move to ISSUE-142 ←
18:18:54 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:19:02 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:19:04 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
18:19:07 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
18:19:07 <Zakim> bmotik was not muted, bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik was not muted, bmotik ←
18:19:18 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:19:22 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
18:19:24 <calvanese> IanH: are we doing anything to prove that Theorem 1 in the profiles document is true?
Ian Horrocks: are we doing anything to prove that Theorem 1 in the profiles document is true? ←
18:19:49 <calvanese> bmotik: a full proof of the theorem would require pages and pages, and would probably be useless
Boris Motik: a full proof of the theorem would require pages and pages, and would probably be useless ←
18:19:51 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:20:00 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
18:20:01 <calvanese> ... I can provide a proof sketch
... I can provide a proof sketch ←
18:20:03 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:20:19 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:20:23 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
18:20:26 <ivan> ack alanr
Ivan Herman: ack alanr ←
18:20:37 <calvanese> ACTION: bmotik to provide proof sketch for Theorem 1 in profiles document
ACTION: bmotik to provide proof sketch for Theorem 1 in profiles document ←
18:20:37 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - bmotik
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - bmotik ←
18:20:39 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:20:43 <pfps> q+
18:20:46 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:21:23 <pfps> Alan is not reading the theorem correctly
Peter Patel-Schneider: Alan is not reading the theorem correctly ←
18:21:33 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:21:38 <ivan> ack ivan
Ivan Herman: ack ivan ←
18:21:49 <calvanese> IanH: I believe annotations don't belong to the theorem
Ian Horrocks: I believe annotations don't belong to the theorem ←
18:22:02 <alanr> let O1 and O2 be OWL 2 RL ontologies in both of which no URI is used for more than one type of entity (i.e., no URIs is used both as, say, a class and an individual), and where all axioms in O2 are assertions of the following form with a, a1, ..., an named individuals:
Alan Ruttenberg: let O1 and O2 be OWL 2 RL ontologies in both of which no URI is used for more than one type of entity (i.e., no URIs is used both as, say, a class and an individual), and where all axioms in O2 are assertions of the following form with a, a1, ..., an named individuals: ←
18:22:05 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
18:22:10 <alanr> so O1 can have annotations
Alan Ruttenberg: so O1 can have annotations ←
18:22:11 <calvanese> ivan: does the theorem have to be proved?
Ivan Herman: does the theorem have to be proved? ←
18:22:20 <alanr> and O2 can have sameas
Alan Ruttenberg: and O2 can have sameas ←
18:23:06 <calvanese> bmotik: agrees with Ian that we don't talk about entailments of annotations in OWL-DL
Boris Motik: agrees with Ian that we don't talk about entailments of annotations in OWL-DL ←
18:23:18 <pfps> Theorem 1 does not allow annotations in the consequent!!!
Peter Patel-Schneider: Theorem 1 does not allow annotations in the consequent!!! ←
18:23:57 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:24:59 <calvanese> pfps: alan is wrong, boris is right, since annotations cannot be in the consequent
Peter Patel-Schneider: alan is wrong, boris is right, since annotations cannot be in the consequent ←
18:25:01 <bijan> I agree with boris and peter as well
Bijan Parsia: I agree with boris and peter as well ←
18:25:04 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:25:07 <bijan> re: the theorem
Bijan Parsia: re: the theorem ←
18:25:09 <pfps> q-
18:25:11 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
18:25:13 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:25:14 <calvanese> IanH: so differences in annotations do not impact on the theorem
Ian Horrocks: so differences in annotations do not impact on the theorem ←
18:25:19 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
18:25:37 <calvanese> boris: answers Ivan's question
Boris Motik: answers Ivan's question ←
18:25:57 <calvanese> ... it is intuitively kind of clear that this holds.
... it is intuitively kind of clear that this holds. ←
18:26:03 <bijan> It's super ugly
Bijan Parsia: It's super ugly ←
18:26:19 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:26:21 <bijan> See the Jermey and Dave Turner "proof" about OWL Full consistency
Bijan Parsia: See the Jermey and Dave Turner "proof" about OWL Full consistency ←
18:26:28 <bijan> 60,000 lines of isabelle code
Bijan Parsia: 60,000 lines of isabelle code ←
18:26:29 <calvanese> ... there is a transformation between derivations
... there is a transformation between derivations ←
18:26:46 <pfps> so change it into a conjecture?
Peter Patel-Schneider: so change it into a conjecture? ←
18:27:32 <pfps> no
18:27:38 <calvanese> alanr: provides his understanding of the theorem
Alan Ruttenberg: provides his understanding of the theorem ←
18:27:41 <pfps> no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
Peter Patel-Schneider: no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no ←
18:27:47 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:27:53 <uli> but O2 is the 'question" ontology!
Uli Sattler: but O2 is the 'question" ontology! ←
18:28:06 <pfps> we have already said how it happens
Peter Patel-Schneider: we have already said how it happens ←
18:28:12 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:28:14 <calvanese> ... I'm not sure how annotations are ruled out
... I'm not sure how annotations are ruled out ←
18:28:22 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
18:28:43 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
18:28:59 <calvanese> boris: explains that putting sameas in O2 does not make a difference
Boris Motik: explains that putting sameas in O2 does not make a difference ←
18:29:27 <IanH> ack
Ian Horrocks: ack ←
18:29:30 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:29:43 <uli> makes sense
Uli Sattler: makes sense ←
18:29:51 <bijan> +1 to conjecture
Bijan Parsia: +1 to conjecture ←
18:29:52 <calvanese> ... if you put sameas in O1, this would have additional consequences, but in O2 you are not allowed to answer questions that would detect such consequences
... if you put sameas in O1, this would have additional consequences, but in O2 you are not allowed to answer questions that would detect such consequences ←
18:29:58 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
18:29:58 <uli> makes sense if with proof sketch
Uli Sattler: makes sense if with proof sketch ←
18:30:01 <pfps> q+
18:30:03 <bernardo> reasonable
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: reasonable ←
18:30:04 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:30:07 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
18:30:17 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
18:30:22 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
18:30:22 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
18:30:26 <calvanese> IanH: PROPOSED: change theorem to conjecture
Ian Horrocks: PROPOSED: change theorem to conjecture ←
18:30:28 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:30:35 <uli> if we are all happy with it?
Uli Sattler: if we are all happy with it? ←
18:30:45 <pfps> ideal solution is theorem+sketch
Peter Patel-Schneider: ideal solution is theorem+sketch ←
18:30:55 <calvanese> alanr: this calls for comments that request a proof
Alan Ruttenberg: this calls for comments that request a proof ←
18:31:06 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
18:31:09 <alanr> ok. I think I understand now. Thank's Boris
Alan Ruttenberg: ok. I think I understand now. Thank's Boris ←
18:31:15 <calvanese> pfps: acceptable situation is theorem + proof sketch
Peter Patel-Schneider: acceptable situation is theorem + proof sketch ←
18:31:27 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:31:32 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
18:31:38 <calvanese> bijan: why do we care?
Bijan Parsia: why do we care? ←
18:31:42 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:31:47 <pfps> q-
18:32:30 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:32:41 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:32:46 <calvanese> IanH: we need at least a sketch proof
Ian Horrocks: we need at least a sketch proof ←
18:32:47 <bijan> I think it is
Bijan Parsia: I think it is ←
18:32:54 <ivan> ewallace: we do not know
Evan Wallace: we do not know [ Scribe Assist by Ivan Herman ] ←
18:33:05 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:33:22 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
18:33:22 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan ←
18:33:26 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:33:33 <Zhe> how long will it take Boris to produce the sketch?
Zhe Wu: how long will it take Boris to produce the sketch? ←
18:33:58 <calvanese> bparsia: it is not hight priority to proof the theorem. we all believe that it holds. boris has better things to do
Bijan Parsia: it is not hight priority to prove the theorem. we all believe that it holds. boris has better things to do ←
18:34:09 <Zhe> :)
18:34:11 <calvanese> s/proof/prove/
18:34:24 <bijan> If that's suffices, then sure
Bijan Parsia: If that's suffices, then sure ←
18:34:30 <pfps> a short sketch would be useful
Peter Patel-Schneider: a short sketch would be useful ←
18:34:51 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:34:52 <calvanese> bmotik: I can produce the sketch in 5 sentences. If it takes more, I agree with Bijan that it is a waste of time.
Boris Motik: I can produce the sketch in 5 sentences. If it takes more, I agree with Bijan that it is a waste of time. ←
18:35:08 <calvanese> ... I try to produce the 5 lines before the f2f
... I try to produce the 5 lines before the f2f ←
18:35:20 <calvanese> IanH: additional other business?
Ian Horrocks: additional other business? ←
18:35:27 <uli> bye
Uli Sattler: bye ←
18:35:28 <Zhe> bye
18:35:30 <Ratnesh> bye
Ratnesh Sahay: bye ←
18:35:31 <calvanese> ... closes the discussion
... closes the discussion ←
Formatted by CommonScribe