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17:01:32 <Carsten> PRESENT: Achille, JeffP, msmith, bmotik, ruttenberg, baojie, pfps, Rinke, pha, Carsten, sandro, Christine, Elisa
Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 51 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Christine Golbreich Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Diego Calvanese Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman Jeff Pan Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Kendall Clark Markus Krötzsch Markus Stocker Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Michel Dumontier Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Rob Shearer Sandro Hawke Suzette Stoutenburg Thomas Schneider Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu
17:01:33 <Carsten> REGRETS: Bernardo Cuenca Grau, Martin Dzbor, Markus Krötzsch, Uli Sattler, Evan Wallace
17:01:34 <Carsten> Topic: Admin
17:01:35 <Carsten> CHAIR: Alan Ruttenberg
17:01:36 <Carsten> scribenick: Carsten
(Scribe set to Unknown Carsten)
17:05:33 <Carsten> alan: agenda amendments?
Alan Ruttenberg: agenda amendments? ←
17:05:54 <Carsten> pfps: discuss Manchester syntax next steps along with other next steps
Peter Patel-Schneider: discuss Manchester syntax next steps along with other next steps ←
17:07:36 <Rinke> the minutes look like they have not been edited at all
Rinke Hoekstra: the minutes look like they have not been edited at all ←
17:08:39 <Rinke> they are draft minutes?
Rinke Hoekstra: they are draft minutes? ←
17:12:17 <msmith> action smith to edit previous minutes to reflect michael sch's complaint
Michael Smith: action smith to edit previous minutes to reflect michael sch's complaint ←
17:12:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-214 - Edit previous minutes to reflect michael sch's complaint [on Michael Smith - due 2008-10-01].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-214 - Edit previous minutes to reflect michael sch's complaint [on Michael Smith - due 2008-10-01]. ←
17:11:15 <Carsten> Alan: Minutes not accepted, have to be completed and will be reviewed again next week
Alan Ruttenberg: Minutes not accepted, have to be completed and will be reviewed again next week ←
17:11:21 <Carsten> Action Item Status
Action Item Status ←
17:12:28 <Carsten> Alan: Actions 211, 205, 213, 212, 210, 208, 209 completed
Alan Ruttenberg: Actions 211, 205, 213, 212, 210, 208, 209 completed ←
17:13:13 <Carsten> Alan: Action 188 completed
Alan Ruttenberg: ACTION-188 completed ←
17:14:12 <Carsten> Reviewing -- all requested reviews were received
Reviewing -- all requested reviews were received ←
17:15:15 <Carsten> Alan: still not very many participants for next F2F, please try to participate
Alan Ruttenberg: still not very many participants for next F2F, please try to participate ←
17:15:38 <Carsten> Topic: Proposal to publish working drafts
17:16:30 <alanr> http://www.w3.org/mid/938DA7C9-4926-4D21-B7D2-F5A26D7EDDCE@cs.rpi.edu
Alan Ruttenberg: http://www.w3.org/mid/938DA7C9-4926-4D21-B7D2-F5A26D7EDDCE@cs.rpi.edu ←
17:17:35 <Rinke> q+ to ask why
Rinke Hoekstra: q+ to ask why ←
17:17:38 <pfps> as far as I could tell almost all of Jim's comments are minor, and many are editorial
Peter Patel-Schneider: as far as I could tell almost all of Jim's comments are minor, and many are editorial ←
17:17:47 <Carsten> alan: are the comments of the reviewers of profile document of a kind that allows us to publish soon, say within a week?
Alan Ruttenberg: are the comments of the reviewers of profile document of a kind that allows us to publish soon, say within a week? ←
17:17:47 <alanr> ack rinke
Alan Ruttenberg: ack rinke ←
17:17:47 <Zakim> Rinke, you wanted to ask why
Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke, you wanted to ask why ←
17:18:14 <pfps> alan, please answer Rinke's question
Peter Patel-Schneider: alan, please answer Rinke's question ←
17:18:16 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:18:29 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:18:32 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
17:18:36 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:18:36 <Zakim> bmotik was not muted, bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik was not muted, bmotik ←
17:18:40 <Carsten> alan: should be up to the editors
Rinke Hoekstra: should be up to the editors ←
17:19:03 <Rinke> s/alan/rinke
17:19:14 <Carsten> boris: will go through them this weekend and address them; there seems nothing special about them.
Boris Motik: will go through them this weekend and address them; there seems nothing special about them. ←
17:20:04 <baojie> q+
17:20:07 <Carsten> as an editor of the profiles document, I agree with Boris and Rinke.
as an editor of the profiles document, I agree with Boris and Rinke. ←
17:20:17 <sandro> q+ to ask about process/timing here
Sandro Hawke: q+ to ask about process/timing here ←
17:20:25 <Carsten> Boris: when will the actual documents be generated for publication
Boris Motik: when will the actual documents be generated for publication ←
17:20:36 <JeffP> Jie is in the queue too
Jeff Pan: Jie is in the queue too ←
17:20:42 <alanr> ack Jie
Alan Ruttenberg: ack Jie ←
17:20:48 <alanr> ack baojie
Alan Ruttenberg: ack baojie ←
17:20:51 <sandro> q-
Sandro Hawke: q- ←
17:20:52 <alanr> ack sandro
Alan Ruttenberg: ack sandro ←
17:21:04 <Carsten> Jie: Jim's review is mostly editorial, can be easily addressed
Jie Bao: Jim's review is mostly editorial, can be easily addressed ←
17:21:26 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:21:26 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:21:29 <Zakim> -??P16
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P16 ←
17:21:33 <Carsten> Ian's is definitely mainly editoral, just read it
Ian's is definitely mainly editoral, just read it ←
17:22:09 <Carsten> Jeff: regarding my review, it may also be helpful if Boris goes through it and responds
Jeff Pan: regarding my review, it may also be helpful if Boris goes through it and responds ←
17:22:27 <Zakim> +??P0
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P0 ←
17:22:35 <cgolbrei> +christine
Christine Golbreich: +christine ←
17:22:46 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:23:08 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:23:08 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:23:09 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
17:23:12 <Carsten> Jeff: how to draw the line between comments that have to be addressed before publication and those that don't
Jeff Pan: how to draw the line between comments that have to be addressed before publication and those that don't ←
17:23:32 <Rinke> zakim, ??P0 is christine
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, ??P0 is christine ←
17:23:32 <Zakim> +christine; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +christine; got it ←
17:24:01 <Carsten> boris: no showstopper in any of the reviews. I'll respond.
Boris Motik: no showstopper in any of the reviews. I'll respond. ←
17:24:03 <Rinke> zakim, christine is cgolbrei
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, christine is cgolbrei ←
17:24:03 <Zakim> +cgolbrei; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cgolbrei; got it ←
17:24:12 <JeffP> q+
17:24:17 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:24:17 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:24:19 <alanr> ack JeffP
Alan Ruttenberg: ack JeffP ←
17:25:54 <bmotik> Yes
Boris Motik: Yes ←
17:26:12 <Carsten> Alan: since Jeff seems uncomfortable, please process his review first
Alan Ruttenberg: since Jeff seems uncomfortable, please process his review first ←
17:26:19 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:26:40 <Carsten> Alan: Reviews of tests and conformance
Alan Ruttenberg: Reviews of tests and conformance ←
17:27:42 <Carsten> mike: my review doesn't need to be processed before publication
Michael Smith: the reviews doesn't need to be processed before publication ←
17:27:55 <pfps> q+
17:28:13 <Carsten> s/my review/the reviews/
17:29:33 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
17:29:53 <pfps> I don't see any show-stoppers in Michael's review (but he should be able to speak for himself)
Peter Patel-Schneider: I don't see any show-stoppers in Michael's review (but he should be able to speak for himself) ←
17:30:32 <Carsten> sandro: awkward to manage to publish in a few week rather than next week with the other documents
Sandro Hawke: awkward to manage to publish in a few week rather than next week with the other documents ←
17:31:28 <Carsten> alan: will contact Ian and Michael and produce a version until Sunday that people can look at on Monday
Alan Ruttenberg: will contact Ian and Michael and produce a version until Sunday that people can look at on Monday ←
17:31:39 <pfps> I'm fine with publishing
Peter Patel-Schneider: I'm fine with publishing ←
17:32:46 <Carsten> discussion of "unknown"
discussion of "unknown" ←
17:33:09 <Carsten> alan: distinguish minimally conforming vs conforming
Alan Ruttenberg: distinguish minimally conforming vs conforming ←
17:33:15 <alanr> versus "complete"
Alan Ruttenberg: versus "complete" ←
17:33:22 <Carsten> pfps: first is trivial, second close to impossible
Peter Patel-Schneider: first is trivial, second close to impossible ←
17:33:50 <Carsten> pfps: minimally conforming can return unknown, but should not; conforming must not return unknown
Peter Patel-Schneider: minimally conforming can return unknown, but should not; conforming must not return unknown ←
17:34:12 <Carsten> alan: how can anything be conforming with OWL Full?
Alan Ruttenberg: how can anything be conforming with OWL Full? ←
17:35:05 <Carsten> ???
??? ←
17:35:33 <sandro> pfps: it's perfectly okay for an OWL Full reasoner to return Unknown -- there are various times it's fine, like it's been 5 days, or it's hit a known incompleteness, etc.
Peter Patel-Schneider: it's perfectly okay for an OWL Full reasoner to return Unknown -- there are various times it's fine, like it's been 5 days, or it's hit a known incompleteness, etc. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:36:02 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:36:04 <Carsten> zakim, unmute me
zakim, unmute me ←
17:36:04 <Zakim> carsten should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: carsten should no longer be muted ←
17:36:38 <Carsten> sandro: how do distinguish in the marketplace a trivial from a "hard working" reasoner trying to avoid unknown?
Sandro Hawke: how do distinguish in the marketplace a trivial from a "hard working" reasoner trying to avoid unknown? ←
17:36:57 <Carsten> pfps: you could have an OWL Full reasoner complete for OWL DL
Peter Patel-Schneider: you could have an OWL Full reasoner complete for OWL DL ←
17:36:59 <Carsten> q+
q+ ←
17:37:58 <Carsten> pfps: difficult to distinguish different degrees of completeness
Peter Patel-Schneider: difficult to distinguish different degrees of completeness ←
17:38:35 <sandro> Sandro: It's sounds like there's no way -- in the OWL-Full-By-Itself market -- to use Conformance to segment the market, to have different classes of power of Reasoners
Sandro Hawke: It's sounds like there's no way -- in the OWL-Full-By-Itself market -- to use Conformance to segment the market, to have different classes of power of Reasoners [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:39:08 <Carsten> pfps: message of recursion theory that the boundary is messy
Peter Patel-Schneider: message of recursion theory that the boundary is messy ←
17:39:12 <pfps> some rationales for should not are in the email I sent out, for OWL Full there can be others, including known incompleteness (actually it would be possible for an OWL 2 DL tool to return unknown and say that it just doesn't implement everything)
Peter Patel-Schneider: some rationales for should not are in the email I sent out, for OWL Full there can be others, including known incompleteness (actually it would be possible for an OWL 2 DL tool to return unknown and say that it just doesn't implement everything) ←
17:40:30 <Carsten> pfps: too many possibilities, often unreasonable assumptions
Peter Patel-Schneider: too many possibilities, often unreasonable assumptions ←
17:40:56 <alanr> ack Carsten
Alan Ruttenberg: ack Carsten ←
17:41:31 <sandro> Sandro: What I'm hearing, and sounds right to me: OWL Full is left without useful distinctions inside it, because all the useful distinctions have been pulled out as other profiles.
Sandro Hawke: What I'm hearing, and sounds right to me: OWL Full is left without useful distinctions inside it, because all the useful distinctions have been pulled out as other profiles. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:41:34 <pfps> my initial response (minimally conforming) was a reducto ad absurdum
Peter Patel-Schneider: my initial response (minimally conforming) was a reducto ad absurdum ←
17:42:02 <Carsten> sandro: if as soon as something is complete we pull it out as a profile, owl full will necessarily remain in a not-very-useful condition
Sandro Hawke: if as soon as something is complete we pull it out as a profile, owl full will necessarily remain in a not-very-useful condition ←
17:43:01 <Carsten> sandro: I suggest to take out "should not" and use another phrasing
Sandro Hawke: I suggest to take out "should not" and use another phrasing ←
17:43:07 <Carsten> zakim, mute me
zakim, mute me ←
17:43:07 <Zakim> carsten should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: carsten should now be muted ←
17:43:47 <pfps> this could be a *addition* instead of a *replacement*
Peter Patel-Schneider: this could be a *addition* instead of a *replacement* ←
17:43:49 <Carsten> sandro: owl full reasoner may be distinguished by the number of cases for which they return unknown; better reasoners will return unknown very rarely
Sandro Hawke: owl full reasoner may be distinguished by the number of cases for which they return unknown; better reasoners will return unknown very rarely ←
17:43:59 <sandro> Replacein "It SHOULD NOT return Unknown." with "We expect OWL Full reasoners to be characterized and distriinguished in the market by which situations they can handle without returning unknown."
Sandro Hawke: Replacein "It SHOULD NOT return Unknown." with "We expect OWL Full reasoners to be characterized and distriinguished in the market by which situations they can handle without returning unknown." ←
17:44:53 <sandro> Sandro: This isn't a blocker; it's just editorial.
Sandro Hawke: This isn't a blocker; it's just editorial. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:45:19 <Carsten> alan: anybody wants to fight for removing "should not"?
Alan Ruttenberg: anybody wants to fight for removing "should not"? ←
17:46:34 <sandro> PROPOSED: Publish OWL 2 Profiles and Test+Conformance as WDs, with editorial changes, subject to approval by Michael Schneider, Peter, and Alan.
PROPOSED: Publish OWL 2 Profiles and Test+Conformance as WDs, with editorial changes, subject to approval by Michael Schneider, Peter, and Alan. ←
17:47:37 <sandro> PROPOSED: Publish OWL 2 Profiles with Boris' editorial changes, and Test+Conformance as WDs, with editorial changes subject to approval by Michael Schneider, Peter, and Alan.
PROPOSED: Publish OWL 2 Profiles with Boris' editorial changes, and Test+Conformance as WDs, with editorial changes subject to approval by Michael Schneider, Peter, and Alan. ←
17:47:51 <pfps> +1 to publish Profiles and T&C as suggested
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to publish Profiles and T&C as suggested ←
17:47:53 <sandro> PROPOSED: Publish OWL 2 Profiles as WD with Boris' editorial changes, and Test+Conformance as PFWD, with editorial changes subject to approval by Michael Schneider, Peter, and Alan.
PROPOSED: Publish OWL 2 Profiles as WD with Boris' editorial changes, and Test+Conformance as PFWD, with editorial changes subject to approval by Michael Schneider, Peter, and Alan. ←
17:48:01 <bmotik> +1 (Oxford)
Boris Motik: +1 (Oxford) ←
17:48:03 <Carsten> +1
+1 ←
17:48:04 <pfps> +1 to publish Profiles and T&C as suggested (ALU)
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to publish Profiles and T&C as suggested (ALU) ←
17:48:05 <sandro> PROPOSED: Publish OWL 2 Profiles as WD with Boris' editorial changes, and Test+Conformance as FPWD, with editorial changes subject to approval by Michael Schneider, Peter, and Alan.
PROPOSED: Publish OWL 2 Profiles as WD with Boris' editorial changes, and Test+Conformance as FPWD, with editorial changes subject to approval by Michael Schneider, Peter, and Alan. ←
17:48:10 <Achille> +1 (IBM)
Achille Fokoue: +1 (IBM) ←
17:48:11 <msmith> +1 (C&P)
Michael Smith: +1 (C&P) ←
17:48:12 <sandro> +1 (W3C)
Sandro Hawke: +1 (W3C) ←
17:48:15 <Rinke> +1 (Amsterdam)
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 (Amsterdam) ←
17:48:16 <Carsten> +1 to all four proposals
+1 to all four proposals ←
17:48:21 <alanr> +1 (sciencecommons)
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 (sciencecommons) ←
17:48:33 <JeffP> -0 (need to check the changes)
Jeff Pan: -0 (need to check the changes) ←
17:49:03 <Elisa> +1 Sandpiper
Elisa Kendall: +1 Sandpiper ←
17:49:15 <baojie> +1 (RPI)
17:49:30 <cgolbrei> +1 (versailles)
Christine Golbreich: +1 (versailles) ←
17:49:36 <sandro> RESOLVED: Publish OWL 2 Profiles as WD with Boris' editorial changes, and Test+Conformance as FPWD, with editorial changes subject to approval by Michael Schneider, Peter, and Alan.
RESOLVED: Publish OWL 2 Profiles as WD with Boris' editorial changes, and Test+Conformance as FPWD, with editorial changes subject to approval by Michael Schneider, Peter, and Alan. ←
17:50:53 <Carsten> sandro: need to know more details; when to publish
Sandro Hawke: need to know more details; when to publish ←
17:50:55 <bmotik> I'll do stuff over the weekend.
Boris Motik: I'll do stuff over the weekend. ←
17:50:59 <bmotik> As much as I can do
Boris Motik: As much as I can do ←
17:51:11 <bmotik> It's all yours on Monday.
Boris Motik: It's all yours on Monday. ←
17:51:14 <JeffP> The resolution does not seem to match precisely what Alan said
Jeff Pan: The resolution does not seem to match precisely what Alan said ←
17:51:37 <Carsten> sandro: last minute scrambling on monday, publish on tuesday
Sandro Hawke: last minute scrambling on monday, publish on tuesday ←
17:51:46 <sandro> Alan: Editors and Constributors will need to be updated, too.
Alan Ruttenberg: Editors and Constributors will need to be updated, too. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:52:43 <Carsten> alan: editor order will be in order of how much was done; contributors alphabetically
Alan Ruttenberg: editor order will be in order of how much was done; contributors alphabetically ←
17:53:03 <pfps> as I hope I had indicated earlier, I am uneasy about this assignment of editorship
Peter Patel-Schneider: as I hope I had indicated earlier, I am uneasy about this assignment of editorship ←
17:54:11 <Carsten> pfps: alternative is negotiation with the involved people
Peter Patel-Schneider: alternative is negotiation with the involved people ←
17:54:37 <Carsten> alan: we will contact people if anything is unclear, there will be a chance to object
Alan Ruttenberg: we will contact people if anything is unclear, there will be a chance to object ←
17:55:32 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/41712/semantics_titles/results
Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/41712/semantics_titles/results ←
17:55:50 <Rinke> q+ to say something about the number of votes
Rinke Hoekstra: q+ to say something about the number of votes ←
17:56:00 <sandro> winner on survey is: LATE ADDITION: "Standard First Order Semantics" and "RDF-Based Semantics"
Sandro Hawke: winner on survey is: LATE ADDITION: "Standard First Order Semantics" and "RDF-Based Semantics" ←
17:56:18 <alanr> ack Rinke
Alan Ruttenberg: ack Rinke ←
17:56:18 <Zakim> Rinke, you wanted to say something about the number of votes
Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke, you wanted to say something about the number of votes ←
17:56:40 <Carsten> rinke: number of votes casts on different proposals differ
Rinke Hoekstra: number of votes casts on different proposals differ ←
17:56:47 <JeffP> some of them are negative votes
Jeff Pan: some of them are negative votes ←
17:57:30 <sandro> NOT clear winner: "Direct Semantics" and "RDF-Based Semantics" -- also has strong showing.
Sandro Hawke: NOT clear winner: "Direct Semantics" and "RDF-Based Semantics" -- also has strong showing. ←
17:58:00 <alanr> 1 = Direct Semantics
Alan Ruttenberg: 1 = Direct Semantics ←
17:58:24 <alanr> 2= Standard First Order Semantics
Alan Ruttenberg: 2= Standard First Order Semantics ←
17:58:28 <sandro> PROPOSED: 1="Direct Semantics" 2 ="Standard First-Order Semantics" . Pick one.
PROPOSED: 1="Direct Semantics" 2 ="Standard First-Order Semantics" . Pick one. ←
17:58:43 <bmotik> 2 (Oxford)
Boris Motik: 2 (Oxford) ←
17:58:45 <pfps> 1 (ALU) - I picked "one" :-)
Peter Patel-Schneider: 1 (ALU) - I picked "one" :-) ←
17:58:46 <Rinke> 1 (Amsterdam)
Rinke Hoekstra: 1 (Amsterdam) ←
17:58:52 <JeffP> 1 (Aberdeen)
17:58:52 <Achille> 2 (IBM)
Achille Fokoue: 2 (IBM) ←
17:58:56 <baojie> 1 (RPI)
17:58:59 <Elisa> 1 (Sandpiper)
Elisa Kendall: 1 (Sandpiper) ←
17:59:13 <alanr> 0 (sciencecommons)
Alan Ruttenberg: 0 (sciencecommons) ←
17:59:22 <sandro> 0 (W3C)
Sandro Hawke: 0 (W3C) ←
17:59:33 <pfps> (which option is "0"?)
Peter Patel-Schneider: (which option is "0"?) ←
17:59:34 <sandro> winner - Direct Semantics
Sandro Hawke: winner - Direct Semantics ←
17:59:36 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:59:38 <sandro> 0 == abstain
Sandro Hawke: 0 == abstain ←
17:59:40 <bmotik> Zakim unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim unmute me ←
17:59:45 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:59:45 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:59:46 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
17:59:47 <msmith> 1 (C&P)
Michael Smith: 1 (C&P) ←
17:59:55 <sandro> RESOLVED: "Direct Semantics" and "RDF-Based Semantics"
RESOLVED: "Direct Semantics" and "RDF-Based Semantics" ←
18:00:05 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
18:00:05 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
18:00:23 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
18:00:23 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
18:01:33 <Carsten> Topic: Status reports: Other documents
18:01:34 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
18:01:34 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
18:02:44 <Carsten> jie: made some reorganizations addressing Uli's concerned; added some new terms; still incomplete
Jie Bao: made some reorganizations addressing Uli's concerns; added some new terms; still incomplete ←
18:02:57 <Carsten> (Quick reference guide status update)
(Quick reference guide status update) ←
18:03:10 <Carsten> Requirements document
Requirements document ←
18:03:12 <Rinke> s/concerned/concerns
18:03:32 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.09.24/Agenda
Sandro Hawke: sandro has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.09.24/Agenda ←
18:04:32 <Carsten> Christine: we need to complete some subsections in section 5, some other questions need to be decided, most pressing to know if there is agreement with the structure
Christine Golbreich: we need to complete some subsections in section 5, some other questions need to be decided, most pressing to know if there is agreement with the structure ←
18:06:45 <Carsten> christine: missing mainly implementation stuff and features still under discussion
Christine Golbreich: missing mainly implementation stuff and features still under discussion ←
18:07:49 <Carsten> elisa: can look at it until October 1st, will also ask Evan to also do that
Elisa Kendall: can look at it until October 1st, will also ask Evan to also do that ←
18:08:05 <cgolbrei> evan knows it
Christine Golbreich: evan knows it ←
18:08:28 <Carsten> alan: more (informal) reviews would be good. anyone?
Alan Ruttenberg: more (informal) reviews would be good. anyone? ←
18:09:35 <Carsten> Manchester Syntax
Manchester Syntax ←
18:10:37 <Carsten> alan: document looks in good formal shape, but I suggest a change:
Alan Ruttenberg: document looks in good formal shape, but I suggest a change: ←
18:10:52 <Carsten> didn't get it
didn't get it ←
18:12:12 <Carsten> display labels instead of URIs unless label empty
display labels instead of URIs unless label empty ←
18:12:22 <Carsten> or ambiguou
or ambiguou ←
18:12:23 <Carsten> s
s ←
18:12:25 <Carsten> :)
:) ←
18:12:28 <Rinke> display label where?
Rinke Hoekstra: display label where? ←
18:13:49 <alanr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Sep/0248.html
Alan Ruttenberg: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Sep/0248.html ←
18:16:51 <pfps> q+
18:16:55 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
18:17:56 <Carsten> pfps: I have prepared the document for review; we should know assign reviewers so that, after the reviews, a public working draft can be published. I am disappointed that this didn't happen.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I have prepared the document for review; we should know assign reviewers so that, after the reviews, a public working draft can be published. I am disappointed that this didn't happen. ←
18:18:09 <msmith> q+
Michael Smith: q+ ←
18:18:14 <alanr> ack msmith
Alan Ruttenberg: ack msmith ←
18:18:48 <Carsten> msmith: there are benefits other than accessibility
Michael Smith: there are benefits other than accessibility ←
18:18:50 <sandro> q+
Sandro Hawke: q+ ←
18:19:20 <Carsten> sandro: let's publish as soon as we can; I don't see any reason not to publish
Sandro Hawke: let's publish as soon as we can; I don't see any reason not to publish ←
18:19:28 <Carsten> sandro: put an issue in there and move on
Sandro Hawke: put an issue in there and move on ←
18:19:52 <pfps> I wasn't asking for a decision to publish - I was only asking for assignment of reviewers.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I wasn't asking for a decision to publish - I was only asking for assignment of reviewers. ←
18:19:56 <Carsten> alan: any volunteers for reviews?
Alan Ruttenberg: any volunteers for reviews? ←
18:19:57 <Rinke> when would the review be due?
Rinke Hoekstra: when would the review be due? ←
18:20:20 <pfps> The "usual" timing is two or three weeks.
Peter Patel-Schneider: The "usual" timing is two or three weeks. ←
18:20:20 <Rinke> I am willing to review
Rinke Hoekstra: I am willing to review ←
18:20:28 <Rinke> that sounds reasonable
Rinke Hoekstra: that sounds reasonable ←
18:20:30 <msmith> I will review. due Oct 8?
Michael Smith: I will review. due Oct 8? ←
18:20:37 <cgolbrei> i am too
Christine Golbreich: i am too ←
18:20:56 <Rinke> think so
Rinke Hoekstra: think so ←
18:20:57 <msmith> action smith to review manchester syntax doc by oct 8
Michael Smith: action smith to review manchester syntax doc by oct 8 ←
18:20:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-215 - Review manchester syntax doc by oct 8 [on Michael Smith - due 2008-10-01].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-215 - Review manchester syntax doc by oct 8 [on Michael Smith - due 2008-10-01]. ←
18:21:09 <Rinke> action hoekstra to review manchester syntax doc by oct 8
Rinke Hoekstra: action hoekstra to review manchester syntax doc by oct 8 ←
18:21:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-216 - Review manchester syntax doc by oct 8 [on Rinke Hoekstra - due 2008-10-01].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-216 - Review manchester syntax doc by oct 8 [on Rinke Hoekstra - due 2008-10-01]. ←
18:21:35 <Carsten> Topic: Issues
18:21:42 <Carsten> SubTopic: ISSUE 138
18:22:20 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:22:25 <alanr> ack sandro
Alan Ruttenberg: ack sandro ←
18:22:49 <Carsten> no comments
no comments ←
18:23:16 <pfps> q+
18:23:27 <Carsten> sandro: what was response from xml schema WG
Sandro Hawke: what was response from xml schema WG ←
18:23:33 <Carsten> pfps: thanks for sending in a comment
Peter Patel-Schneider: thanks for sending in a comment ←
18:23:56 <msmith> q+
Michael Smith: q+ ←
18:24:29 <pfps> q-
18:24:39 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:24:44 <msmith> q-
Michael Smith: q- ←
18:26:09 <alanr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-comments/2008Jul/0002.html
Alan Ruttenberg: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-comments/2008Jul/0002.html ←
18:27:17 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:27:20 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
18:27:20 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
18:27:22 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
18:27:30 <Carsten> SubTopic: ISSUE 144
18:27:42 <pfps> q+
18:27:58 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
18:28:02 <Carsten> boris: If we include the base triple, we don't know when an axiom has an annotation and when not, etc. It's so much cleaner the way it is now.
Boris Motik: If we include the base triple, we don't know when an axiom has an annotation and when not, etc. It's so much cleaner the way it is now. ←
18:28:26 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
18:28:26 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
18:28:27 <Carsten> boris: easier to parse, what do you do if you only find the reified triples?
Boris Motik: easier to parse, what do you do if you only find the reified triples? ←
18:28:57 <Carsten> pfps: this asks to make a technical change to our system in response to a misconception by somebody else
Peter Patel-Schneider: this asks to make a technical change to our system in response to a misconception by somebody else ←
18:29:03 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:29:13 <Carsten> alan: there are different views on how OWL is used
Alan Ruttenberg: there are different views on how OWL is used ←
18:29:39 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
18:29:39 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
18:30:07 <pfps> rdf users are free to also have the base triple if they so desire
Peter Patel-Schneider: rdf users are free to also have the base triple if they so desire ←
18:30:21 <sandro> q+
Sandro Hawke: q+ ←
18:30:23 <Carsten> boris: nobody said that the RDF user has to retract the existing triple; there is just some redundancy
Boris Motik: nobody said that the RDF user has to retract the existing triple; there is just some redundancy ←
18:30:34 <pfps> this doesn't even change the DL status of the ontology
Peter Patel-Schneider: this doesn't even change the DL status of the ontology ←
18:30:41 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
18:30:42 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
18:30:54 <JeffP> thanks, bye
18:30:56 <Zakim> -msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith ←
18:30:57 <Rinke> thanks, bye
Rinke Hoekstra: thanks, bye ←
18:30:58 <sandro> Short answer to Boris:
Sandro Hawke: Short answer to Boris: ←
18:30:58 <Zakim> -bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik ←
18:30:59 <Zakim> -Achille
Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille ←
18:30:59 <Zakim> -JeffP
Zakim IRC Bot: -JeffP ←
18:31:01 <Zakim> -Elisa_Kendall
Zakim IRC Bot: -Elisa_Kendall ←
18:31:02 <Carsten> zakim, unmute me
zakim, unmute me ←
18:31:03 <Zakim> carsten should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: carsten should no longer be muted ←
18:31:05 <Zakim> -Rinke
Zakim IRC Bot: -Rinke ←
18:31:11 <Zakim> -pha
Zakim IRC Bot: -pha ←
18:31:12 <Zakim> -Peter_Patel-Schneider
Zakim IRC Bot: -Peter_Patel-Schneider ←
18:31:14 <Zakim> -Alan_Ruttenberg
Zakim IRC Bot: -Alan_Ruttenberg ←
18:31:58 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
18:31:59 <sandro> Short answer to Boris: it's about the RDF user and the OWL user interacting....
Sandro Hawke: Short answer to Boris: it's about the RDF user and the OWL user interacting.... ←
18:32:01 <Zakim> -carsten
Zakim IRC Bot: -carsten ←
18:32:02 <Zakim> -baojie
Zakim IRC Bot: -baojie ←
18:32:25 <Zakim> -cgolbrei
Zakim IRC Bot: -cgolbrei ←
18:32:26 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended ←
18:32:27 <Zakim> Attendees were Peter_Patel-Schneider, +49.351.463.3.aaaa, +31.20.525.aabb, Rinke, Alan_Ruttenberg, bmotik, +1.202.408.aacc, pha, msmith, carsten, +1.518.276.aadd, +1.518.276.aaee,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Peter_Patel-Schneider, +49.351.463.3.aaaa, +31.20.525.aabb, Rinke, Alan_Ruttenberg, bmotik, +1.202.408.aacc, pha, msmith, carsten, +1.518.276.aadd, +1.518.276.aaee, ←
18:32:29 <Zakim> ... baojie, +0122427aaff, JeffP, Achille, Sandro, Elisa_Kendall, cgolbrei
Zakim IRC Bot: ... baojie, +0122427aaff, JeffP, Achille, Sandro, Elisa_Kendall, cgolbrei ←
Formatted by CommonScribe