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OWL Working Group

Minutes of 21 July 2008

Seen
Christine Golbreich, Deborah McGuinness, Elisa Kendall, Evan Wallace, Ian Horrocks, Michel Dumontier, Unknown cgolbei, Vipul Kashyap
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Ian Horrocks
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. Accept previous minutes link
Topics

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14:00:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/21-owl-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/21-owl-irc

14:00:18 <IanH> zakim, this is owl

Ian Horrocks: zakim, this is owl

14:00:18 <Zakim> IanH, I see SW_OWL()10:00AM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be owl".

Zakim IRC Bot: IanH, I see SW_OWL()10:00AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be owl".

14:00:25 <IanH> zakim, this will be owl

Ian Horrocks: zakim, this will be owl

14:00:25 <Zakim> ok, IanH; I see SW_OWL()10:00AM scheduled to start now

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, IanH; I see SW_OWL()10:00AM scheduled to start now

14:01:07 <IanH> IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/UFDTF/Agenda.2008.07.21

Ian Horrocks: IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/UFDTF/Agenda.2008.07.21

14:01:15 <Zakim> SW_OWL()10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()10:00AM has now started

14:01:16 <Zakim> +Vipul_Kashyap

Zakim IRC Bot: +Vipul_Kashyap

14:02:02 <Zakim> +??P12

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12

14:02:13 <IanH> zakim, ??P12 is IanH

Ian Horrocks: zakim, ??P12 is IanH

14:02:13 <Zakim> +IanH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +IanH; got it

14:02:24 <Zakim> +??P13

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13

14:03:13 <Zakim> +Elisa_Kendall

Zakim IRC Bot: +Elisa_Kendall

14:04:08 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

14:04:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see Vipul_Kashyap, IanH, ??P13, Elisa_Kendall

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Vipul_Kashyap, IanH, ??P13, Elisa_Kendall

14:04:09 <Zakim> On IRC I see vipul, Elisa, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ewallace, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see vipul, Elisa, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ewallace, trackbot

14:04:34 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: +Evan_Wallace

14:04:49 <IanH> Who is ??P13?

Ian Horrocks: Who is ??P13?

14:05:32 <IanH> Deb, did you call in?

Ian Horrocks: Deb, did you call in?

14:05:37 <IanH> ScribeNick: IanH

(Scribe set to Ian Horrocks)

14:05:48 <dlm> yes - i did but it answered and then started ringing before i could put in the conf code

Deborah McGuinness: yes - i did but it answered and then started ringing before i could put in the conf code

14:05:51 <dlm> trying again

Deborah McGuinness: trying again

14:06:01 <Zakim> +dlm

Zakim IRC Bot: +dlm

14:06:07 <dlm> got on

Deborah McGuinness: got on

14:06:09 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

zakim, who is here?

14:06:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see Vipul_Kashyap, IanH, ??P13 (muted), Elisa_Kendall, Evan_Wallace, dlm

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Vipul_Kashyap, IanH, ??P13 (muted), Elisa_Kendall, Evan_Wallace, dlm

14:06:12 <Zakim> On IRC I see dlm, vipul, Elisa, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ewallace, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see dlm, vipul, Elisa, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ewallace, trackbot

14:08:00 <ewallace> minutes look fine

Evan Wallace: minutes look fine

14:08:16 <IanH> RESOLVED: Accept previous minutes

RESOLVED: Accept previous minutes

14:08:50 <Zakim> +??P20

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P20

14:08:54 <IanH> IanH has changed the topic to: quick start

IanH has changed the topic to: quick start

14:09:03 <michel> Zakim, ??P20 is michel

Michel Dumontier: Zakim, ??P20 is michel

14:09:03 <Zakim> +michel; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +michel; got it

14:09:04 <IanH> Ian: progress

Ian Horrocks: progress

14:09:11 <Elisa> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/UFDTF

Elisa Kendall: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/UFDTF

14:09:54 <dlm> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Quick_Reference_Guide

Deborah McGuinness: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Quick_Reference_Guide

14:10:27 <IanH> Elisa: Made some progress; some issues have arisen

Elisa Kendall: Made some progress; some issues have arisen

14:11:11 <IanH> Elisa: Structure follows syntax doc

Elisa Kendall: Structure follows syntax doc

14:12:19 <IanH> ... some issues w.r.t. annotations due to lack of links

... some issues w.r.t. annotations due to lack of links

14:13:21 <IanH> ... needs relevant tags in syntax document

... needs relevant tags in syntax document

14:15:40 <IanH> ... e.g., tag for Declaration to enable a jump straight to that point in Syntax

... e.g., tag for Declaration to enable a jump straight to that point in Syntax

14:18:45 <IanH> ... e.g., owl:deprecated

... e.g., owl:deprecated

14:20:38 <IanH> ... not sure if links to Primer are needed

... not sure if links to Primer are needed

14:21:51 <IanH> Elisa: what about the structure?

Elisa Kendall: what about the structure?

14:22:01 <dlm> one portion of our target audience is the people who use  http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-owl-features-20040210/#s2 in the owl 1 overview

Deborah McGuinness: one portion of our target audience is the people who use http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-owl-features-20040210/#s2 in the owl 1 overview

14:22:08 <IanH> IanH: Looks OK, but I'm not the target audience

Ian Horrocks: Looks OK, but I'm not the target audience

14:23:39 <IanH> dlm: would like 2 page reference card, but this might be a squeeze

Deborah McGuinness: would like 2 page reference card, but this might be a squeeze

14:23:50 <IanH> Evan: need reviewers from outside WG

Evan Wallace: need reviewers from outside WG

14:25:10 <IanH> IanH: Let Boris know what tags you need

Ian Horrocks: Let Boris know what tags you need

14:25:16 <IanH> Elisa: Yes

Elisa Kendall: Yes

14:25:37 <IanH> dlm: will link to examples in Primer

Deborah McGuinness: will link to examples in Primer

14:26:50 <IanH> IanH: examples here will make it too long; link to primer will be better

Ian Horrocks: examples here will make it too long; link to primer will be better

14:27:03 <IanH> Elisa: can provide link in 4th column

Elisa Kendall: can provide link in 4th column

14:27:27 <IanH> dlm: and too time consuming

Deborah McGuinness: and too time consuming

14:29:13 <IanH> IanH: maybe structure is back to front for this audience?

Ian Horrocks: maybe structure is back to front for this audience?

14:29:24 <ewallace> I agree that quickstart should be factored differently

Evan Wallace: I agree that quickstart should be factored differently

14:29:36 <ewallace> ... then Syntax doc

Evan Wallace: ... then Syntax doc

14:30:00 <IanH> Elisa: agree, but had to start with some ordering

Elisa Kendall: agree, but had to start with some ordering

14:30:26 <IanH> dlm: figured that it would be least contentious

Deborah McGuinness: figured that it would be least contentious

14:31:17 <IanH> IanH: you have a lot of leeway

Ian Horrocks: you have a lot of leeway

14:32:16 <IanH> IanH: does it need to be fully comprehensive?

Ian Horrocks: does it need to be fully comprehensive?

14:32:28 <ewallace> might be able to leave out datacomplementOf

Evan Wallace: might be able to leave out datacomplementOf

14:32:36 <IanH> dlm: was benefit to that in OWL overview

Deborah McGuinness: was benefit to that in OWL overview

14:33:05 <IanH> Elisa: perhaps go back to ordering in OWL overview

Elisa Kendall: perhaps go back to ordering in OWL overview

14:34:55 <IanH> IanH: maybe only provide list of pointers for "complicated stuff"

Ian Horrocks: maybe only provide list of pointers for "complicated stuff"

14:35:23 <IanH> Evan: too early to know about all this stuff -- let's see how it goes

Evan Wallace: too early to know about all this stuff -- let's see how it goes

14:35:45 <IanH> Elisa: test audience at NIST?

Elisa Kendall: test audience at NIST?

14:36:03 <IanH> Evan: yes; guess you and Deb also have customers

Evan Wallace: yes; guess you and Deb also have customers

14:37:07 <IanH> IanH: Reasonably clear how to go forward

Ian Horrocks: Reasonably clear how to go forward

14:37:44 <michel> +q

Michel Dumontier: +q

14:38:14 <ewallace> michel is on the queue

Evan Wallace: michel is on the queue

14:38:21 <IanH> q?

q?

14:38:27 <IanH> ack michel

ack michel

14:38:49 <IanH> IanH: send email to the list now pointing people at draft

Ian Horrocks: send email to the list now pointing people at draft

14:39:04 <IanH> ... let them know it is work in progress and to look later in the week for more stuff

... let them know it is work in progress and to look later in the week for more stuff

14:39:22 <IanH> ... Will reiterate this message on Wednesday

... Will reiterate this message on Wednesday

14:39:50 <IanH> Michel: likes reference card format

Michel Dumontier: likes reference card format

14:39:56 <dlm> michel likes the language synopsis of the 1.0 document  and likes the reference card format

Deborah McGuinness: michel likes the language synopsis of the 1.0 document and likes the reference card format

14:40:11 <IanH> Elisa: will produce such a thing and link to it from top of this document

Elisa Kendall: will produce such a thing and link to it from top of this document

14:40:44 <IanH> Michel: likes brief description after names of entities -- this is very useful

Michel Dumontier: likes brief description after names of entities -- this is very useful

14:42:29 <michel> having both would be nice

Michel Dumontier: having both would be nice

14:42:44 <michel> (links to syntax and primer, that is)

Michel Dumontier: (links to syntax and primer, that is)

14:42:50 <IanH> dlm: links to both Primer and Ref (syntax) will be good

Deborah McGuinness: links to both Primer and Ref (syntax) will be good

14:44:05 <Zakim> -Elisa_Kendall

Zakim IRC Bot: -Elisa_Kendall

14:44:10 <IanH> IanH has changed the topic to: requirements

IanH has changed the topic to: requirements

14:44:25 <ewallace> frozen version of reqs doc

Evan Wallace: frozen version of reqs doc

14:44:31 <ewallace> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/draft/ED-owl2-requirements-20080721/

Evan Wallace: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/draft/ED-owl2-requirements-20080721/

14:45:16 <IanH> Vipul: two structures -- mine and Christine's

Vipul Kashyap: two structures -- mine and Christine's

14:45:26 <IanH> ... need to think about users of OWL 2

... need to think about users of OWL 2

14:45:40 <IanH> ... bring out issues related to applications and users

... bring out issues related to applications and users

14:46:30 <IanH> ... agreed with Deb that common threads run through many applications

... agreed with Deb that common threads run through many applications

14:46:44 <cgolbrei> made revisions today, last version is still at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft

Christine Golbreich: made revisions today, last version is still at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft

14:47:49 <ewallace> it was frozen this morning

Evan Wallace: it was frozen this morning

14:48:07 <cgolbrei> added deb ucs

Christine Golbreich: added deb ucs

14:48:16 <IanH> dlm: includes my updates and comments from Christine

Deborah McGuinness: includes my updates and comments from Christine

14:49:10 <cgolbrei> is it possible to take the update including deb's ucs ?

Christine Golbreich: is it possible to take the update including deb's ucs ?

14:49:47 <michel> there is a discussion link

Michel Dumontier: there is a discussion link

14:49:54 <IanH> IanH: send email pointing to editors draft for review

Ian Horrocks: send email pointing to editors draft for review

14:50:09 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

zakim, who is here?

14:50:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see Vipul_Kashyap, IanH, ??P13, Evan_Wallace, dlm, michel

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Vipul_Kashyap, IanH, ??P13, Evan_Wallace, dlm, michel

14:50:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see cgolbrei, michel, dlm, vipul, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ewallace, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see cgolbrei, michel, dlm, vipul, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ewallace, trackbot

14:50:30 <IanH> zakim, ??P13 is cgolbei

zakim, ??P13 is cgolbei

14:50:30 <Zakim> +cgolbei; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cgolbei; got it

14:50:33 <ewallace> echo

Evan Wallace: echo

14:50:46 <IanH> Heavy breathing!

Heavy breathing!

14:51:46 <vipul> Which version is being frozen ? http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/index.php?title=RequirementsDraftForReview

Vipul Kashyap: Which version is being frozen ? http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/index.php?title=RequirementsDraftForReview

14:51:51 <vipul> Is that the one?

Vipul Kashyap: Is that the one?

14:51:58 <ewallace> Yes

Evan Wallace: Yes

14:52:39 <IanH> Christine: may be some outdated references in current document

Christine Golbreich: may be some outdated references in current document

14:52:49 <vipul> q+

Vipul Kashyap: q+

14:54:45 <IanH> q?

q?

14:54:48 <IanH> ack vipul

ack vipul

14:54:58 <cgolbrei> +q

Christine Golbreich: +q

14:55:10 <IanH> vipul: link to discussion page would be useful

Vipul Kashyap: link to discussion page would be useful

14:55:22 <IanH> ... may need more time at F2F

... may need more time at F2F

14:55:46 <ewallace> This will be reviewed http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/draft/ED-owl2-requirements-20080721/

Evan Wallace: This will be reviewed http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/draft/ED-owl2-requirements-20080721/

14:56:05 <ewallace> produced from http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/index.php?title=RequirementsDraftForReview

Evan Wallace: produced from http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/index.php?title=RequirementsDraftForReview

14:56:09 <IanH> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/draft/ED-owl2-requirements-20080721/

http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/draft/ED-owl2-requirements-20080721/

14:57:31 <IanH> Christine: worthwhile to get frozen version updated

Christine Golbreich: worthwhile to get frozen version updated

14:58:35 <IanH> Evan: will try to get new frozen version to reflect latest updates

Evan Wallace: will try to get new frozen version to reflect latest updates

14:59:04 <michel> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft

Michel Dumontier: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft

14:59:14 <michel> contains 19 use cases

Michel Dumontier: contains 19 use cases

14:59:14 <cgolbrei> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft

Christine Golbreich: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft

14:59:27 <dlm> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft

Deborah McGuinness: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft

14:59:48 <cgolbrei> this is the last  updated

Christine Golbreich: this is the last updated

15:00:33 <IanH> Evan: I didn't tell everyone which version we are working from

Evan Wallace: I didn't tell everyone which version we are working from

15:00:42 <IanH> ... so we have several versions :-(

... so we have several versions :-(

15:01:35 <dlm> the other one i updated over the weekend was  http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/UseCasesMotivatedByDomainsAndApplications

Deborah McGuinness: the other one i updated over the weekend was http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/UseCasesMotivatedByDomainsAndApplications

15:01:57 <cgolbrei> all sections are updated and merged in http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft

Christine Golbreich: all sections are updated and merged in http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft

15:02:05 <dlm> i agree

Deborah McGuinness: i agree

15:02:22 <IanH> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft

http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft

15:02:38 <ewallace> Not sure how to do that

Evan Wallace: Not sure how to do that

15:03:24 <IanH> IanH: need to update ReqDraft and make new editors draft

Ian Horrocks: need to update ReqDraft and make new editors draft

15:05:00 <IanH> IanH: Vipul then Christine then Deb update RequirementsDraft

Ian Horrocks: Vipul then Christine then Deb update RequirementsDraft

15:05:40 <IanH> IanH: Then ask Sandro to create new editors' draft

Ian Horrocks: Then ask Sandro to create new editors' draft

15:07:04 <IanH> IanH: Order of play should be: Christine, Vipul then Deb

Ian Horrocks: Order of play should be: Christine, Vipul then Deb

15:07:16 <ewallace> we are already working from Christine's latest version, Yes?

Evan Wallace: we are already working from Christine's latest version, Yes?

15:07:52 <IanH> IanH: yes, http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft

Ian Horrocks: yes, http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft

15:08:38 <ewallace> In one hour Vipul will have exclusive write permission to update

Evan Wallace: In one hour Vipul will have exclusive write permission to update

15:08:47 <ewallace> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft

Evan Wallace: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft

15:10:29 <cgolbrei> on his section

Christine Golbreich: on his section

15:10:52 <ewallace> on the whole document

Evan Wallace: on the whole document

15:11:07 <dlm> later the question is whether we include requirements that are not expected to be met by owl 2.0 (such as vsto's need for defaults).

Deborah McGuinness: later the question is whether we include requirements that are not expected to be met by owl 2.0 (such as vsto's need for defaults).

15:11:16 <IanH> Christine: when can we continue work?

Christine Golbreich: when can we continue work?

15:11:29 <IanH> IanH: After editors' draft

Ian Horrocks: After editors' draft

15:12:03 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: -Evan_Wallace

15:12:04 <Zakim> -Vipul_Kashyap

Zakim IRC Bot: -Vipul_Kashyap

15:12:08 <Zakim> -cgolbei

Scribe problem: the name 'cgolbei' does not match any of the 52 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Christine Golbreich Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Diego Calvanese Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman Jeff Pan Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Kendall Clark Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Michel Dumontier Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Rob Shearer Sandro Hawke Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -cgolbei

15:12:09 <Zakim> -dlm

Zakim IRC Bot: -dlm

15:12:14 <Zakim> -michel

Zakim IRC Bot: -michel

15:12:16 <Zakim> -IanH

Zakim IRC Bot: -IanH

15:12:17 <Zakim> SW_OWL()10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()10:00AM has ended

15:12:19 <Zakim> Attendees were Vipul_Kashyap, IanH, Elisa_Kendall, Evan_Wallace, dlm, michel, cgolbei

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Vipul_Kashyap, IanH, Elisa_Kendall, Evan_Wallace, dlm, michel, cgolbei

15:12:50 <IanH> RRSAgent, make records public

RRSAgent, make records public



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