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OWL Working Group

Minutes of 02 July 2008

Present
Ivan Herman, Markus Krötzsch, Michael Smith, Ratnesh Sahay, Ian Horrocks, Boris Motik, Bernardo Cuenca Grau, Unknown Carsten, Martin Dzbor, Diego Calvanese, Bijan Parsia, Rinke Hoekstra, Sandro Hawke, Jie Bao, Evan Wallace, Alan Ruttenberg, Jeff Pan, Michael Schneider, Zhe Wu
Regrets
Peter Patel-Schneider, Elisa Kendall, Achille Fokoue
Chair
Ian Horrocks
Scribe
Evan Wallace
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. accept previous minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-06-25 link
Topics

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00:00:00 <ewallace> PRESENT: ivan, MarkusK, msmith, ratnesh, IanH, bmotik, bcuencagrau, Carsten, MartinD, calvanese, bijan, Rinke, sandro, baojie, ewallace, alan ruttenberg, JeffP, m_schnei, zhe

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Christine Golbreich Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Diego Calvanese Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman Jeff Pan Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Kendall Clark Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Michel Dumontier Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu

00:00:00 <ewallace> CHAIR: IanH
00:00:00 <ewallace> REGRETS: Peter Patel-Schneider, Elisa Kendall, AchilleFokoue
16:48:43 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-owl-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-owl-irc

16:48:53 <Rinke> Zakim, this will be owl

Rinke Hoekstra: Zakim, this will be owl

16:48:53 <Zakim> ok, Rinke; I see SW_OWL()12:00PM scheduled to start 48 minutes ago

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Rinke; I see SW_OWL()12:00PM scheduled to start 48 minutes ago

16:49:13 <Rinke> RRSAgent, make records public

Rinke Hoekstra: RRSAgent, make records public

16:54:49 <Zakim> SW_OWL()12:00PM has now started

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()12:00PM has now started

16:54:56 <Zakim> +??P9

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9

16:55:06 <bijan> zakim, ??P9 is me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, ??P9 is me

16:55:06 <Zakim> +bijan; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan; got it

16:55:12 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

16:55:12 <Zakim> sorry, bijan, muting is not permitted when only one person is present

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, bijan, muting is not permitted when only one person is present

16:56:38 <Zakim> + +31.20.525.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +31.20.525.aaaa

16:56:44 <Rinke> zakim, aaaa is me

Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, aaaa is me

16:56:44 <Zakim> +Rinke; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Rinke; got it

16:56:46 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

16:56:46 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

16:58:00 <Zakim> +calvanese

Zakim IRC Bot: +calvanese

16:58:02 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: +Evan_Wallace

16:58:10 <Zakim> +??P12

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12

16:58:12 <calvanese> zakim, mute me

Diego Calvanese: zakim, mute me

16:58:12 <Zakim> calvanese should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: calvanese should now be muted

16:58:14 <bmotik> Zakim, ??P12 is me

Boris Motik: Zakim, ??P12 is me

16:58:14 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it

16:58:17 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

16:58:17 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

16:58:51 <Zakim> + +49.351.463.3.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +49.351.463.3.aabb

16:59:00 <Carsten> zakim, +aabb is me

Unknown Carsten: zakim, +aabb is me

16:59:00 <Zakim> sorry, Carsten, I do not recognize a party named '+aabb'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Carsten, I do not recognize a party named '+aabb'

16:59:01 <Zakim> +??P14

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14

16:59:08 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, ??P14 is me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, ??P14 is me

16:59:08 <Zakim> +bcuencagrau; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bcuencagrau; got it

16:59:13 <Carsten> zakim, aabb is me

Unknown Carsten: zakim, aabb is me

16:59:13 <Zakim> +Carsten; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Carsten; got it

16:59:20 <Carsten> zakim, mute me

Unknown Carsten: zakim, mute me

16:59:20 <Zakim> Carsten should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Carsten should now be muted

16:59:26 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, mute me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me

16:59:26 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should now be muted

16:59:52 <Zakim> +IanH

Zakim IRC Bot: +IanH

17:00:03 <Zakim> +??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17

17:00:11 <Zakim> +baojie

Zakim IRC Bot: +baojie

17:00:24 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

17:00:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, Evan_Wallace, calvanese (muted), bmotik (muted), Carsten (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), IanH, ??P17, baojie

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, Evan_Wallace, calvanese (muted), bmotik (muted), Carsten (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), IanH, ??P17, baojie

17:00:25 <ratnesh> zakim, ??P17 is ratnesh

Ratnesh Sahay: zakim, ??P17 is ratnesh

17:00:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see MarkusK, msmith, ratnesh, IanH, bmotik, bcuencagrau, Carsten, MartinD, calvanese, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, Rinke, sandro, baojie, ewallace, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see MarkusK, msmith, ratnesh, IanH, bmotik, bcuencagrau, Carsten, MartinD, calvanese, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, Rinke, sandro, baojie, ewallace, trackbot

17:00:29 <Zakim> +ratnesh; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +ratnesh; got it

17:00:29 <Zakim> + +0190827aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +0190827aacc

17:00:38 <Zakim> +msmith

Zakim IRC Bot: +msmith

17:00:43 <MartinD> zakim, aacc is me

Martin Dzbor: zakim, aacc is me

17:00:43 <Zakim> +MartinD; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MartinD; got it

17:00:53 <MartinD> zakim, mute me

Martin Dzbor: zakim, mute me

17:00:53 <Zakim> MartinD should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MartinD should now be muted

17:01:26 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

17:02:19 <ewallace> scribeNick: ewallace

(Scribe set to Evan Wallace)

17:02:30 <ewallace> Topic: admin

1. admin

17:02:34 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

17:02:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, Evan_Wallace, calvanese (muted), bmotik (muted), Carsten (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), IanH, ratnesh, baojie, MartinD (muted), msmith,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, Evan_Wallace, calvanese (muted), bmotik (muted), Carsten (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), IanH, ratnesh, baojie, MartinD (muted), msmith,

17:02:37 <Zakim> ... MarkusK

Zakim IRC Bot: ... MarkusK

17:02:38 <Zakim> On IRC I see ivan, MarkusK, msmith, ratnesh, IanH, bmotik, bcuencagrau, Carsten, MartinD, calvanese, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, Rinke, sandro, baojie, ewallace, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see ivan, MarkusK, msmith, ratnesh, IanH, bmotik, bcuencagrau, Carsten, MartinD, calvanese, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, Rinke, sandro, baojie, ewallace, trackbot

17:03:03 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

17:03:03 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

17:03:05 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

17:03:42 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

17:03:49 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

17:03:57 <m_schnei> zakim, [IPcaller] is me

Michael Schneider: zakim, [IPcaller] is me

17:03:58 <Zakim> +m_schnei; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +m_schnei; got it

17:04:02 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

17:04:02 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

17:04:05 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

17:04:05 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted

17:04:13 <Zakim> + +1.617.278.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.617.278.aadd

17:04:17 <alanr> zakim, aadd is alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, aadd is alanr

17:04:17 <Zakim> +alanr; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +alanr; got it

17:04:21 <ewallace> Zakim, this will be owlwg

Zakim, this will be owlwg

17:04:21 <Zakim> ok, ewallace; I see SW_OWL()12:00PM scheduled to start 64 minutes ago

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ewallace; I see SW_OWL()12:00PM scheduled to start 64 minutes ago

17:04:26 <ivan> zakim, mute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me

17:04:26 <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I don't know what conference this is

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, ivan, I don't know what conference this is

17:04:31 <ivan> ???

Ivan Herman: ???

17:04:50 <Rinke> zakim, this is owl

Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, this is owl

17:04:50 <Zakim> ok, Rinke; that matches SW_OWL()12:00PM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Rinke; that matches SW_OWL()12:00PM

17:04:52 <ewallace> subtopic: accept previous minutes

1.1. accept previous minutes

17:04:54 <msmith> the scribee thinks they look good

Michael Smith: the scribee thinks they look good

17:05:01 <ivan> zakim, mute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me

17:05:02 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted

17:05:17 <IanH> PROPOSED: accept previous minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-06-25

PROPOSED: accept previous minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-06-25

17:05:20 <msmith> +1 to accept 2008-06-25 minutes

Michael Smith: +1 to accept 2008-06-25 minutes

17:05:23 <Rinke> +1

Rinke Hoekstra: +1

17:05:26 <calvanese> +1

Diego Calvanese: +1

17:05:26 <MartinD> +1

Martin Dzbor: +1

17:05:27 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

17:05:28 <ewallace> +1

+1

17:05:30 <IanH> +1

Ian Horrocks: +1

17:05:34 <Zakim> +JeffP

Zakim IRC Bot: +JeffP

17:05:48 <ewallace> RESOLVED: accept previous minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-06-25

RESOLVED: accept previous minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-06-25

17:05:49 <JeffP> +1

Jeff Pan: +1

17:06:20 <ewallace> subTopic: Action Items status

1.2. Action Items status

17:07:02 <ewallace> subsubtopic: Pending Review Actions
1.2.1. Pending Review Actions
17:07:05 <ewallace> subsubsubtopic: Action 163 Update the structural spec according to the resolution of ISSUE 21 and ISSUE 24 / Boris Motick
1.2.1.1. ACTION-163 Update the structural spec according to the resolution of ISSUE-21 and ISSUE-24 / Boris Motick
17:07:07 <ewallace> Act 163 completed

Act 163 completed

17:07:10 <ewallace> subsubtopic: Due and overdue Actions
1.2.2. Due and overdue Actions
17:07:15 <ewallace> subsubsubtopic: Action 42 Improve examples for rich annotations / Bijan Parsia
1.2.2.1. ACTION-42 Improve examples for rich annotations / Bijan Parsia
17:07:29 <bijan> Done and closed

Bijan Parsia: Done and closed

17:07:50 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

17:07:50 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted

17:08:42 <msmith> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Annotation_System

Michael Smith: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Annotation_System

17:08:50 <ivan> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Annotation_System#Simple_Syntax_Example

Ivan Herman: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Annotation_System#Simple_Syntax_Example

17:08:51 <ewallace> Action-42 done

ACTION-42 done

17:08:51 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 156

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - 156

17:09:20 <ewallace> subsubsubtopic: Action 156 Respond to the email along the lines Bijan suggests above / Alan Ruttenberg
1.2.2.2. ACTION-156 Respond to the email along the lines Bijan suggests above / Alan Ruttenberg
17:09:25 <ewallace> continued

continued

17:09:46 <ewallace> subsubsubtopic: action 157 Confer with chairs list about how to get more information about what we need to do wrt accessibility / Alan Ruttenberg
1.2.2.3. ACTION-157 Confer with chairs list about how to get more information about what we need to do wrt accessibility / Alan Ruttenberg
17:10:03 <ewallace> continued

continued

17:10:03 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

17:10:03 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

17:10:34 <ewallace> subsubsubtopic: action 158 Create first draft of requirements Document / Evan Wallace
1.2.2.4. ACTION-158 Create first draft of requirements Document / Evan Wallace
17:10:42 <ewallace> done and closed

done and closed

17:11:00 <ewallace> subsubsubtopic: action 159 Work wih M_schnei to collect, propose how to address issues in making rdf list vocabulary / Alan Ruttenberg
1.2.2.5. ACTION-159 Work wih M_schnei to collect, propose how to address issues in making rdf list vocabulary / Alan Ruttenberg
17:11:02 <ewallace>  continued

continued

17:11:02 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 159

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - 159

17:11:10 <calvanese> zakim, unmute me

Diego Calvanese: zakim, unmute me

17:11:11 <Zakim> calvanese should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: calvanese should no longer be muted

17:11:12 <m_schnei> i step back from 159

Michael Schneider: i step back from 159

17:11:15 <ewallace> subsubsubtopic: action 161 Top and Bottom Role in various Profiles / Uli Sattler
1.2.2.6. ACTION-161 Top and Bottom Role in various Profiles / Uli Sattler
17:11:17 <ewallace> action 161 continued

ACTION-161 continued

17:11:17 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 161

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - 161

17:11:48 <ewallace> subsubsubtopic: action 162 Investigate top/bottom roles in DL-Lite / Diego Calvanese
1.2.2.7. ACTION-162 Investigate top/bottom roles in DL-Lite / Diego Calvanese
17:11:57 <bmotik> OK, I'll just add it right away.

Boris Motik: OK, I'll just add it right away.

17:12:47 <ewallace> Diego will write up what his investigation revealed and send to WG

Diego will write up what his investigation revealed and send to WG

17:12:59 <bijan> Subject line containing ACTION-Number will be found by tracker

Bijan Parsia: Subject line containing ACTION-Number will be found by tracker

17:15:01 <ewallace> jeffP: cmt on inconsistancy

Jeff Pan: cmt on inconsistancy

17:15:32 <bcuencagrau> you need the data to have the inconsistency

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: you need the data to have the inconsistency

17:16:03 <ewallace> subsubsubtopic: action 165 Investigate easy keys in DL-Lite / Diego Calvenese
1.2.2.8. ACTION-165 Investigate easy keys in DL-Lite / Diego Calvenese
17:16:20 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

17:16:20 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted

17:16:30 <ewallace> Diego: Easy keys are compatible with key notion in DL-Lite

Diego Calvanese: Easy keys are compatible with key notion in DL-Lite

17:16:54 <ewallace> Diego: we need to restict these keys in the same way

Diego Calvanese: we need to restict these keys in the same way

17:17:11 <ewallace> Diego: the keys cannot be subtyped

Diego Calvanese: the keys cannot be subtyped

17:17:16 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

17:17:16 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

17:17:28 <Zakim> +Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe

17:17:35 <Zhe> Zakim, mute me

Zhe Wu: Zakim, mute me

17:17:35 <Zakim> Zhe should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Zhe should now be muted

17:17:53 <ewallace> diego to write up how easy-keys could be used in DL-lite

diego to write up how easy-keys could be used in DL-lite

17:18:01 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

17:18:03 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

17:18:53 <ewallace> msmith: asked if we described unique names assumption in the profile document

Michael Smith: asked if we described unique names assumption in the profile document

17:18:57 <msmith> I see, I didn't realize this had changed

Michael Smith: I see, I didn't realize this had changed

17:19:21 <ewallace> Boris: it is described

Boris Motik: it is described

17:19:38 <ewallace> subsubsubtopic: action 164 Send email re: suggestions for unnamed individuals *in addition* to bnodes / Alan Ruttenberg
1.2.2.9. ACTION-164 Send email re: suggestions for unnamed individuals *in addition* to bnodes / Alan Ruttenberg
17:19:39 <calvanese> zakim, mute me

Diego Calvanese: zakim, mute me

17:19:39 <Zakim> calvanese should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: calvanese should now be muted

17:19:47 <ewallace> done

done

17:19:53 <ewallace> topic: Issues

2. Issues

17:19:54 <ewallace> subtopic: Other Issue Discussions

2.1. Other Issue Discussions

17:20:42 <ewallace> subsubtopic: Issue 16 Entity Annotations
2.1.1. ISSUE-16 Entity Annotations
17:20:42 <alanr_> could we get a review of what the issue was?

Alan Ruttenberg: could we get a review of what the issue was?

17:21:17 <bijan> Peter's not here, and he's the issue raiser?

Bijan Parsia: Peter's not here, and he's the issue raiser?

17:21:41 <ewallace> IanH: the issue was - could you annotate annotations?

Ian Horrocks: the issue was - could you annotate annotations?

17:22:32 <ewallace> boris: problem - you can annotate entity annotations, because they are axioms, but not other kinds of annotation, because they are not axioms

Boris Motik: problem - you can annotate entity annotations, because they are axioms, but not other kinds of annotation, because they are not axioms

17:23:07 <ewallace> ... peter proposed various solutions, including one where annotations could contain a set of other annotations

... peter proposed various solutions, including one where annotations could contain a set of other annotations

17:24:35 <ewallace> boris: having an axiom that contains another axiom is hard in RDF

Boris Motik: having an axiom that contains another axiom is hard in RDF

17:25:04 <ewallace> ... my proposal is to can the issue because both proposed solutions are quite hard

... my proposal is to can the issue because both proposed solutions are quite hard

17:25:24 <ewallace> alanr: I wonder if the question might go away with rich annotations

Alan Ruttenberg: I wonder if the question might go away with rich annotations

17:26:01 <ewallace> ... there are motivating use cases for this

... there are motivating use cases for this

17:26:27 <bijan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data:_URI_scheme

Bijan Parsia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data:_URI_scheme

17:26:29 <bijan> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Reification_Alternatives

Bijan Parsia: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Reification_Alternatives

17:26:41 <ewallace> alanr: How is the reification in one of the proposed solutions harder than where we have done this elsewhere?

Alan Ruttenberg: How is the reification in one of the proposed solutions harder than where we have done this elsewhere?

17:26:58 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

17:26:58 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted

17:28:00 <alanr_> Mcdermott was convincing to me....

Alan Ruttenberg: Mcdermott was convincing to me....

17:28:13 <alanr_> one + level of indirection

Alan Ruttenberg: one + level of indirection

17:29:31 <ewallace> bijan: may need to recommend how to construct annotations for meta-annotations

Bijan Parsia: may need to recommend how to construct annotations for meta-annotations

17:29:55 <ewallace> bijan: set up your structure of annotations so that you always reify in a nice way

Bijan Parsia: set up your structure of annotations so that you always reify in a nice way

17:30:05 <ewallace> ... we could work out the pattern for this

... we could work out the pattern for this

17:30:06 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

17:30:06 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

17:30:39 <ewallace> alan: the idea of structuring annotations works for new annotation but not for old rdf annotations

Alan Ruttenberg: the idea of structuring annotations works for new annotation but not for old rdf annotations

17:30:47 <bijan>  data: uris could solve this

Bijan Parsia: data: uris could solve this

17:30:51 <bijan> But they are ugly

Bijan Parsia: But they are ugly

17:30:57 <bijan> Literals as well

Bijan Parsia: Literals as well

17:31:40 <ewallace> ianH: are annotations inside annotations asserted in the KB?

Ian Horrocks: are annotations inside annotations asserted in the KB?

17:32:45 <ewallace> boris: the problem is that there is no way in rdf to say this axiom contains an axiom

Boris Motik: the problem is that there is no way in rdf to say this axiom contains an axiom

17:33:04 <ewallace> ... as soon as its in a bag of triples in rdf it is asserted

... as soon as its in a bag of triples in rdf it is asserted

17:33:43 <bijan> there's a queue!

Bijan Parsia: there's a queue!

17:33:45 <ewallace> ... can't tell after whether the triple occured at the top level or inside another triple

... can't tell after whether the triple occured at the top level or inside another triple

17:34:59 <ewallace> alan: I'd be happy to work through the example with Boris over email

Alan Ruttenberg: I'd be happy to work through the example with Boris over email

17:35:15 <alanr_>  Note: I will have to leave at 2pm.

Alan Ruttenberg: Note: I will have to leave at 2pm.

17:35:44 <ewallace> bijan: this problem of not having syntactic context is something I considered

Bijan Parsia: this problem of not having syntactic context is something I considered

17:36:17 <ewallace> ... people who are tracking this should look at the reification table

... people who are tracking this should look at the reification table

17:36:33 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

17:36:33 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

17:37:30 <ewallace> skipping Issue 67

skipping ISSUE-67

17:37:54 <ewallace> subsubtopic: issue 126 Normative datatypes
2.1.2. ISSUE-126 Normative datatypes
17:38:35 <ewallace> alan: it seemed like there was clear consensus on an underlying Real datatype

Alan Ruttenberg: it seemed like there was clear consensus on an underlying Real datatype

17:38:41 <msmith> q+ to disagree on type promotion

Michael Smith: q+ to disagree on type promotion

17:38:56 <ewallace> ... and floating point is promoted to this for reasoning

... and floating point is promoted to this for reasoning

17:39:16 <bijan> +1 to disagree with type promotion

Bijan Parsia: +1 to disagree with type promotion

17:39:35 <ewallace> ... there was a question on whether or not non-numeric values of float like +inf were also promoted

... there was a question on whether or not non-numeric values of float like +inf were also promoted

17:40:14 <ewallace> msmith: I agree we want an underlying real datatype, but disagree promoting xsd: float

Michael Smith: I agree we want an underlying real datatype, but disagree promoting xsd: float

17:40:15 <alanr_> is it clear what "promotion" means? Perhaps Boris should explain.

Alan Ruttenberg: is it clear what "promotion" means? Perhaps Boris should explain.

17:40:15 <bijan> I also thing Reals shouldn't have NaN. Those aren't reals! Why make a clean datatype and then crude it up!

Bijan Parsia: I also thing Reals shouldn't have NaN. Those aren't reals! Why make a clean datatype and then crude it up!

17:40:38 <alanr_> the argument is that floats are there to represent machine computations.

Alan Ruttenberg: the argument is that floats are there to represent machine computations.

17:40:39 <ewallace> ... don't understand the point of having both xsd:float and xsd:decimal

... don't understand the point of having both xsd:float and xsd:decimal

17:41:03 <alanr_> This is an important use case for Science Commons

Alan Ruttenberg: This is an important use case for Science Commons

17:41:04 <alanr_> 1+

Alan Ruttenberg: 1+

17:41:10 <alanr_> not 1+

Alan Ruttenberg: not 1+

17:41:16 <MartinD> +1

Martin Dzbor: +1

17:41:42 <ewallace> boris: promotion means to restrict float values

Boris Motik: promotion means to restrict float values

17:42:06 <ewallace> boris: I'm pretty happy with ditching float and double, but this will look bad

Boris Motik: I'm pretty happy with ditching float and double, but this will look bad

17:42:12 <bijan> "Ditching"? Isn't it that we "aren't adding"

Bijan Parsia: "Ditching"? Isn't it that we "aren't adding"

17:42:23 <ewallace> boris: you might want to store these in an efficient way

Boris Motik: you might want to store these in an efficient way

17:42:50 <bijan> Floats aren't continuous

Bijan Parsia: Floats aren't continuous

17:42:52 <Carsten> +1000

Unknown Carsten: +1000

17:42:55 <bijan> I'm confused

Bijan Parsia: I'm confused

17:43:17 <ewallace> boris: I would bet if we keep the continuous aspects of float, then now implementation will be correct

Boris Motik: I would bet if we keep the continuous aspects of float, then now implementation will be correct

17:43:20 <bijan> It's arbitrary sized decimals

Bijan Parsia: It's arbitrary sized decimals

17:43:34 <MarkusK> yes, I also think that xsd:decimal supports no exponent notation

Markus Krötzsch: yes, I also think that xsd:decimal supports no exponent notation

17:44:01 <bijan> It can't !

Bijan Parsia: It can't !

17:44:13 <bijan> There's too much here

Bijan Parsia: There's too much here

17:44:16 <alanr_> http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#decimal

Alan Ruttenberg: http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#decimal

17:44:20 <bijan> Can we chunk the discussion a littl

Bijan Parsia: Can we chunk the discussion a littl

17:44:52 <ewallace> boris: a possible way out is to define an owl:float and owl:real

Boris Motik: a possible way out is to define an owl:float and owl:real

17:45:15 <bijan> http://www.java2s.com/Code/Oracle/Data-Type/IS-NAN.htm

Bijan Parsia: http://www.java2s.com/Code/Oracle/Data-Type/IS-NAN.htm

17:45:28 <ewallace> alan: wrt continuous aspect:

Alan Ruttenberg: wrt continuous aspect:

17:45:33 <MarkusK> (for the minutes) xsd:float also has non-numerical values, NaN and infinite

Markus Krötzsch: (for the minutes) xsd:float also has non-numerical values, NaN and infinite

17:46:17 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

17:46:17 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

17:47:08 <ewallace> alan: effect on floats, the only consequence to considering them real would be

Alan Ruttenberg: effect on floats, the only consequence to considering them real would be

17:47:26 <ewallace> ...

...

17:47:46 <ewallace> alan: asked some folk, they would prefer real

Alan Ruttenberg: asked some folk, they would prefer real

17:47:53 <m_schnei> (for the minutes, too) IEEE floats also have +/- 0, do xsd:float have too?

Michael Schneider: (for the minutes, too) IEEE floats also have +/- 0, do xsd:float have too?

17:48:05 <ewallace> alan: also asked about +-inf and NaN

Alan Ruttenberg: also asked about +-inf and NaN

17:48:18 <ewallace> alan: they considered these to be essential

Alan Ruttenberg: they considered these to be essential

17:48:46 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

17:48:46 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted

17:48:57 <ewallace> alan: the objective is to be able to transmit and contain numeric data in an OWL file

Alan Ruttenberg: the objective is to be able to transmit and contain numeric data in an OWL file

17:49:18 <ewallace> bijan: the first step I have is if we are going to talk about something with a binary rep.

Bijan Parsia: the first step I have is if we are going to talk about something with a binary rep.

17:49:50 <ewallace> bijan: we can't avoid rounding, we can't separate the value space from the representation

Bijan Parsia: we can't avoid rounding, we can't separate the value space from the representation

17:49:53 <alanr_> OWL does not produce new floats in the course of reasoning.

Alan Ruttenberg: OWL does not produce new floats in the course of reasoning.

17:50:40 <ewallace> ianH: it seems to me that we are proposing in owl to have a virtual float that is continuous

Ian Horrocks: it seems to me that we are proposing in owl to have a virtual float that is continuous

17:50:59 <alanr_> So precision issues are external to OWL - OWL would not disturb any precision or do any rounding.

Alan Ruttenberg: So precision issues are external to OWL - OWL would not disturb any precision or do any rounding.

17:51:09 <ewallace> bijan: so you are just treating the float rep as an idiosyncratic rep of reals

Bijan Parsia: so you are just treating the float rep as an idiosyncratic rep of reals

17:51:31 <ewallace> boris: the value space is the set of real numbers between the min and max of float

Boris Motik: the value space is the set of real numbers between the min and max of float

17:52:30 <alanr_> Ian asked my question

Alan Ruttenberg: Ian asked my question

17:53:12 <alanr_> 2.0 float is not considered different than int float

Alan Ruttenberg: 2.0 float is not considered different than int float

17:53:46 <Carsten> zakim, unmute me

Unknown Carsten: zakim, unmute me

17:53:46 <Zakim> Carsten should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Carsten should no longer be muted

17:54:02 <ewallace> carsten: I like this proposal

Unknown Carsten: I like this proposal

17:54:24 <ewallace> ... either dropping float completely, or treating them as reals for reasoning

... either dropping float completely, or treating them as reals for reasoning

17:54:51 <alanr_> no float predicate, I think.

Alan Ruttenberg: no float predicate, I think.

17:54:54 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

17:54:54 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan

17:55:14 <ewallace> boris: floats are a subset of reals

Boris Motik: floats are a subset of reals

17:55:49 <ewallace> carsten: treat float as a property of a real number?

Unknown Carsten: treat float as a property of a real number?

17:56:04 <msmith> q+ to ask about the benefit of this proposal

Michael Smith: q+ to ask about the benefit of this proposal

17:56:13 <ewallace> boris: the reason for doing this is so that you can ship data around as reals

Boris Motik: the reason for doing this is so that you can ship data around as reals

17:56:22 <Carsten> perfect

Unknown Carsten: perfect

17:56:27 <Carsten> zakim, mute me

Unknown Carsten: zakim, mute me

17:56:27 <Zakim> Carsten should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Carsten should now be muted

17:56:28 <alanr_>  consider: oracle than answers between a and b, how many values. For float we decide to answer: Infinity , always

Alan Ruttenberg: consider: oracle than answers between a and b, how many values. For float we decide to answer: Infinity , always

17:56:29 <bijan> One question at a time!

Bijan Parsia: One question at a time!

17:56:32 <bijan> Please!@

Bijan Parsia: Please!@

17:56:43 <alanr_> q+ to mention nan as data bottom

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to mention nan as data bottom

17:56:46 <bijan> I wanted to respond to the carsten questiona nd now we're off track

Bijan Parsia: I wanted to respond to the carsten questiona nd now we're off track

17:56:54 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

17:56:54 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan

17:56:57 <ewallace> boris: if you have something like 1 / 0 then the ontology is unsatisfiable

Boris Motik: if you have something like 1 / 0 then the ontology is unsatisfiable

17:59:13 <ewallace> bijan: there are 3 options for the predicate thing

Bijan Parsia: there are 3 options for the predicate thing

17:59:38 <alanr_>  comment: Lexical float doesn't work - because of defined rounding.

Alan Ruttenberg: comment: Lexical float doesn't work - because of defined rounding.

17:59:42 <ewallace> ... no predicate

... no predicate

18:02:31 <ewallace> alan: we want to capture the result of an experiment and that may include NaN values

Alan Ruttenberg: we want to capture the result of an experiment and that may include NaN values

18:02:55 <Zakim> -alanr

Zakim IRC Bot: -alanr

18:02:59 <Zakim> alanr_, you wanted to mention nan as data bottom

Zakim IRC Bot: alanr_, you wanted to mention nan as data bottom

18:03:03 <ewallace> ... they don't care about how many discrete values between here and there

... they don't care about how many discrete values between here and there

18:03:27 <bijan> the �value space�s of all �primitive� datatypes are disjoint (they do not share any values)

Bijan Parsia: the �value space�s of all �primitive� datatypes are disjoint (they do not share any values)

18:03:32 <ewallace> msmith: people using XSD already make the choice between xsd:float and xsd:decimal

Michael Smith: people using XSD already make the choice between xsd:float and xsd:decimal

18:03:36 <bijan> http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#rf-fund-facets

Bijan Parsia: http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#rf-fund-facets

18:03:50 <bijan> (double and decimal are primitive datatypes in xsd)

Bijan Parsia: (double and decimal are primitive datatypes in xsd)

18:03:59 <ewallace> ... given the fact that they chose xsd:float, we ought to respect the choice

... given the fact that they chose xsd:float, we ought to respect the choice

18:04:00 <Zakim> msmith, you wanted to ask about the benefit of this proposal

Zakim IRC Bot: msmith, you wanted to ask about the benefit of this proposal

18:04:22 <bijan> q+ to point to 4.2

Bijan Parsia: q+ to point to 4.2

18:04:38 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

18:04:38 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan

18:04:44 <ewallace> boris: the reason that float is not put under decimal in xsd may be because of the 3 special values

Boris Motik: the reason that float is not put under decimal in xsd may be because of the 3 special values

18:05:12 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to point to 4.2

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to point to 4.2

18:05:19 <JeffP> the spec is somehow inconsistent

Jeff Pan: the spec is somehow inconsistent

18:05:19 <msmith> http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#equal

Michael Smith: http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#equal

18:06:07 <ewallace> bijan: the spec says the value spaces of float and decimal are disjoint

Bijan Parsia: the spec says the value spaces of float and decimal are disjoint

18:06:44 <alanr> Does it actually say they are disjoint, or does it not say they have a shared value space (negation or naf)

Alan Ruttenberg: Does it actually say they are disjoint, or does it not say they have a shared value space (negation or naf)

18:06:54 <msmith> it says disjoint

Michael Smith: it says disjoint

18:06:57 <ewallace> subsubtopic: Issue 131 Single OWL-R profile
2.1.3. ISSUE-131 Single OWL-R profile
18:07:07 <Zhe> yes

Zhe Wu: yes

18:07:18 <Zhe> let boris go first

Zhe Wu: let boris go first

18:07:38 <Zhe> zakim, unmute me

Zhe Wu: zakim, unmute me

18:07:38 <Zakim> Zhe should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Zhe should no longer be muted

18:07:52 <ewallace> boris: the problem with OWL R profile is that OWL R full version is not a syntactic fragment

Boris Motik: the problem with OWL R profile is that OWL R full version is not a syntactic fragment

18:08:43 <ewallace> ... the idea is to have basically 1 OWL R profile

... the idea is to have basically 1 OWL R profile

18:09:18 <ewallace> boris: if the ontology is written in triples it is in OWL R if it is parseable as OWL R

Boris Motik: if the ontology is written in triples it is in OWL R if it is parseable as OWL R

18:10:00 <ewallace> Zhe: Yes. I do agree with Boris on this.  It seems a bit odd to have these two versions.

Zhe Wu: Yes. I do agree with Boris on this. It seems a bit odd to have these two versions.

18:10:14 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

18:10:14 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted

18:10:17 <ewallace> ... I see the value of combining the syntactic restriction into the profile

... I see the value of combining the syntactic restriction into the profile

18:10:51 <ewallace> Michael Schneider: regarding confusion - it is not confusing from an rdf point of view because

Michael Schneider: regarding confusion - it is not confusing from an rdf point of view because

18:11:04 <ewallace> ... any sublanguage is a semantic sublanguage

... any sublanguage is a semantic sublanguage

18:11:09 <bijan> q+ to talk about user perspective

Bijan Parsia: q+ to talk about user perspective

18:11:16 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

18:11:16 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted

18:11:17 <ewallace> ... I don't share the argument.

... I don't share the argument.

18:11:36 <ewallace> boris: I think what is confusing is from an ontology point of view.

Boris Motik: I think what is confusing is from an ontology point of view.

18:11:57 <ewallace> ... you don't know what it means.  You can't interpret it in an unambiguous way.

... you don't know what it means. You can't interpret it in an unambiguous way.

18:12:08 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to talk about user perspective

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to talk about user perspective

18:12:17 <bijan> I'm still on the queue!

Bijan Parsia: I'm still on the queue!

18:12:20 <bijan> No no!

Bijan Parsia: No no!

18:12:25 <ewallace> ... what is the point also from a user's perspective, when the meaning is ill-defined.

... what is the point also from a user's perspective, when the meaning is ill-defined.

18:12:57 <ewallace> bijan: In my experience users find the semantic subsetting confusing.

Bijan Parsia: In my experience users find the semantic subsetting confusing.

18:13:20 <bcuencagrau> zakim, unmute me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: zakim, unmute me

18:13:20 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should no longer be muted

18:13:20 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

18:13:21 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

18:13:26 <ewallace> ... In our spec.s, all the other profiles are syntactic subsets

... In our spec.s, all the other profiles are syntactic subsets

18:13:50 <ewallace> bernardo: I totally agree with Bijan on this.  The purpose of OWL R is to define a language

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: I totally agree with Bijan on this. The purpose of OWL R is to define a language

18:14:11 <ewallace> ... that is easily implementable using production rules.

... that is easily implementable using production rules.

18:14:35 <ewallace> ... What people real care about is this ability to implement the reasoning using a rule engine.

... What people real care about is this ability to implement the reasoning using a rule engine.

18:14:36 <bcuencagrau> zakim, unmute me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: zakim, unmute me

18:14:36 <Zakim> bcuencagrau was not muted, bcuencagrau

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau was not muted, bcuencagrau

18:14:40 <bcuencagrau> zakim, mute me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: zakim, mute me

18:14:40 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should now be muted

18:14:53 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

18:14:53 <Zakim> m_schnei was not muted, m_schnei

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei was not muted, m_schnei

18:14:54 <bijan> Yes

Bijan Parsia: Yes

18:14:57 <JeffP> y

Jeff Pan: y

18:15:24 <ewallace> IanH: to M_schnei - what if they use some rdfs syntax and no rdfs interpretation is made

Ian Horrocks: to M_schnei - what if they use some rdfs syntax and no rdfs interpretation is made

18:15:34 <ewallace> ... wouldn't the user be surprised?

... wouldn't the user be surprised?

18:15:42 <Rinke> +q to ask about relation with DLP

Rinke Hoekstra: +q to ask about relation with DLP

18:16:37 <ewallace> Michael Schneider: you would restrict the reasoning to rdf in a tool like Jena, you would be explicitly aware of this

Michael Schneider: you would restrict the reasoning to rdf in a tool like Jena, you would be explicitly aware of this

18:17:05 <ewallace> Michael Schneider: run the reasoning and see what inference graph is produced

Michael Schneider: run the reasoning and see what inference graph is produced

18:17:24 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

18:17:24 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted

18:17:26 <ewallace> ... you of course have to know which reasoner you are using

... you of course have to know which reasoner you are using

18:18:23 <ewallace> Bijan: you will still be able to do the RDF style reasoning

Bijan Parsia: you will still be able to do the RDF style reasoning

18:18:59 <Zakim> Rinke, you wanted to ask about relation with DLP

Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke, you wanted to ask about relation with DLP

18:19:06 <ewallace> ... In OWL-land people are used to having certain syntax indicate the reasoning features in the interpretation

... In OWL-land people are used to having certain syntax indicate the reasoning features in the interpretation

18:19:30 <bijan> (DLP and hornSHIQ are also syntactic fragments)

Bijan Parsia: (DLP and hornSHIQ are also syntactic fragments)

18:19:34 <ewallace> rinke: when we started we had DLP, and hornSHIQ and others

Rinke Hoekstra: when we started we had DLP, and hornSHIQ and others

18:20:08 <ewallace> ... How will this impact people who use DLP like stuff

... How will this impact people who use DLP like stuff

18:20:17 <m_schnei> Motivation for OWL R was RDFS 3.0 / OWL-Prime

Michael Schneider: Motivation for OWL R was RDFS 3.0 / OWL-Prime

18:20:30 <ewallace> boris: HornSHIQ was dropped because there were too many fragments

Boris Motik: HornSHIQ was dropped because there were too many fragments

18:20:37 <bijan> And a champion in the working group :)

Bijan Parsia: And a champion in the working group :)

18:20:48 <ewallace> ... we just kept those that had larger user bases

... we just kept those that had larger user bases

18:21:04 <m_schnei> All the fragments in the beginning were *DL* fragments --> HENCE syntactic fragments

Michael Schneider: All the fragments in the beginning were *DL* fragments --> HENCE syntactic fragments

18:21:34 <bijan> All the fragments in the beginning were *OWL* fragments --> HENCE syntactic fragments

Bijan Parsia: All the fragments in the beginning were *OWL* fragments --> HENCE syntactic fragments

18:21:39 <ewallace> Boris: what remains is OWL R.  You can still use production rules or other similar tools for it.

Boris Motik: what remains is OWL R. You can still use production rules or other similar tools for it.

18:21:59 <bijan> OWL lite is a syntactic fragment of OWL DL which is a syntactic fragment of OWL Full

Bijan Parsia: OWL lite is a syntactic fragment of OWL DL which is a syntactic fragment of OWL Full

18:22:04 <m_schnei> Full fragements are always semantic fragments, they are always applyable on every RDF graph

Michael Schneider: Full fragements are always semantic fragments, they are always applyable on every RDF graph

18:22:14 <ewallace> Boris: We are just saying there is a syntactic check that can indicate which profile is being used.

Boris Motik: We are just saying there is a syntactic check that can indicate which profile is being used.

18:22:43 <bijan> OWL DL and OWL Lite *are* fragments of full. What you say is false. And I'll stop the back chat ;)

Bijan Parsia: OWL DL and OWL Lite *are* fragments of full. What you say is false. And I'll stop the back chat ;)

18:22:44 <ewallace> Zhe: Oracle is planning to support this profile in the future and it is probable that we

Zhe Wu: Oracle is planning to support this profile in the future and it is probable that we

18:23:06 <ewallace> ... will include the capability to bypass the syntax check.

... will include the capability to bypass the syntax check.

18:23:29 <ewallace> ivan: what I would like to understand is if we go with Boris' proposal and I'm in RDF-land

Ivan Herman: what I would like to understand is if we go with Boris' proposal and I'm in RDF-land

18:23:35 <ewallace> ... what exactly do I lose?

... what exactly do I lose?

18:24:01 <ewallace> IanH: I guess you lose the ability to consider some graphs as OWL R.

Ian Horrocks: I guess you lose the ability to consider some graphs as OWL R.

18:24:31 <ewallace> IanH: Like if you include SomeValuesFrom constructs.

Ian Horrocks: Like if you include SomeValuesFrom constructs.

18:25:04 <ewallace> Boris: you don't lose anything.  The rules will work exactly as they are.  You don't lose any

Boris Motik: you don't lose anything. The rules will work exactly as they are. You don't lose any

18:25:55 <ewallace> ... expressive power.  The syntax forbidden doesn't have rules for the corresponding reasoning.

... expressive power. The syntax forbidden doesn't have rules for the corresponding reasoning.

18:26:22 <ewallace> bijan: in a way the fragment is saying these are the things we know how to do something interesting with.

Bijan Parsia: in a way the fragment is saying these are the things we know how to do something interesting with.

18:27:08 <m_schnei> what is with the RDFS axiomatic triples?

Michael Schneider: what is with the RDFS axiomatic triples?

18:27:21 <Zhe> zakim, unmute me

Zhe Wu: zakim, unmute me

18:27:21 <Zakim> Zhe was not muted, Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: Zhe was not muted, Zhe

18:27:22 <bcuencagrau> zakim, unmute me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: zakim, unmute me

18:27:23 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should no longer be muted

18:27:26 <ewallace> Zhe: to Ivan's point, expressivity is not lost.  Just some ontologies will be rejected, if syntactic checking is on.

Zhe Wu: to Ivan's point, expressivity is not lost. Just some ontologies will be rejected, if syntactic checking is on.

18:27:50 <ewallace> bernardo: we have an additional benefit from specifying this as a syntactic fragment

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: we have an additional benefit from specifying this as a syntactic fragment

18:28:25 <bcuencagrau> zakim, mute me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: zakim, mute me

18:28:25 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should now be muted

18:28:26 <ewallace> ... you can know if you are in the fragment.

... you can know if you are in the fragment.

18:28:40 <ewallace> subtopic: Additional other business

2.2. Additional other business

18:28:41 <ewallace> None

None

18:28:42 <ewallace> Meeting Adjourned

Meeting Adjourned

18:29:13 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

18:29:17 <Zakim> -Carsten

Zakim IRC Bot: -Carsten

18:29:18 <Zakim> -JeffP

Zakim IRC Bot: -JeffP

18:29:19 <Zakim> -bcuencagrau

Zakim IRC Bot: -bcuencagrau

18:29:19 <Zakim> -msmith

Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith

18:29:20 <Zakim> -bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik

18:29:21 <Zakim> -baojie

Zakim IRC Bot: -baojie

18:29:23 <Zakim> -MarkusK

Zakim IRC Bot: -MarkusK

18:29:25 <Zakim> -ratnesh

Zakim IRC Bot: -ratnesh

18:29:25 <ewallace> rrsagent, draft minutes

rrsagent, draft minutes

18:29:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-owl-minutes.html ewallace

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-owl-minutes.html ewallace

18:29:27 <Zakim> -MartinD

Zakim IRC Bot: -MartinD

18:29:29 <Zakim> -bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan

18:29:31 <Zakim> -Rinke

Zakim IRC Bot: -Rinke

18:29:33 <Zakim> -Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe

18:29:35 <Zakim> -IanH

Zakim IRC Bot: -IanH

18:29:37 <Zakim> -calvanese

Zakim IRC Bot: -calvanese

18:29:39 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

18:29:41 <Zakim> -m_schnei

Zakim IRC Bot: -m_schnei

18:29:43 <ewallace> rrsagent, make log world-readable

rrsagent, make log world-readable

18:29:56 <ewallace> rrsagent, make log public

rrsagent, make log public

18:30:55 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: -Evan_Wallace

18:30:56 <Zakim> SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended

18:30:57 <Zakim> Attendees were bijan, +31.20.525.aaaa, Rinke, calvanese, Evan_Wallace, bmotik, +49.351.463.3.aabb, bcuencagrau, Carsten, IanH, baojie, ratnesh, +0190827aacc, msmith, MartinD,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were bijan, +31.20.525.aaaa, Rinke, calvanese, Evan_Wallace, bmotik, +49.351.463.3.aabb, bcuencagrau, Carsten, IanH, baojie, ratnesh, +0190827aacc, msmith, MartinD,

18:30:59 <Zakim> ... MarkusK, Ivan, Sandro, m_schnei, +1.617.278.aadd, alanr, JeffP, Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: ... MarkusK, Ivan, Sandro, m_schnei, +1.617.278.aadd, alanr, JeffP, Zhe



Formatted by CommonScribe