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OWL Working Group

Minutes of 19 March 2008

Present
Bernardo Cuenca Grau, Michael Smith, Ian Horrocks, Boris Motik, Rinke Hoekstra, Sandro Hawke, Jie Bao, Evan Wallace, Doug Lenat, Michael Schneider, Alan Ruttenberg, Ivan Herman, Peter Patel-Schneider, Achille Fokoue
Chair
Ian Horrocks
Scribe
Peter Patel-Schneider
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. accept previous minutes link
  2. resolve issue 102 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0149.html link
  3. resolve issue 79 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0191.htm link
  4. reject issue 78 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0194.html link
  5. new name for fragments document solves issue 75 so it can be resolved (closed) link
Topics

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16:58:25 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/19-owl-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/19-owl-irc

16:58:35 <Zakim> SW_OWL()12:00PM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()12:00PM has now started

16:58:41 <Zakim> +??P0

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P0

16:58:51 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, ??P0 is me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, ??P0 is me

16:58:51 <Zakim> +bcuencagrau; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bcuencagrau; got it

16:59:02 <Zakim> + +1.202.408.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.202.408.aaaa

16:59:19 <Zakim> + +0186527aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +0186527aabb

16:59:22 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, mute me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me

16:59:22 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should now be muted

16:59:26 <Zakim> +??P6

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P6

16:59:29 <IanH> zakim, aabb is IanH

Ian Horrocks: zakim, aabb is IanH

16:59:29 <Zakim> + +31.20.525.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +31.20.525.aacc

16:59:29 <Zakim> +IanH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +IanH; got it

16:59:33 <bmotik> Zakim, ??P6 is me

Boris Motik: Zakim, ??P6 is me

16:59:33 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it

16:59:36 <Rinke> Zakim, aacc is me

Rinke Hoekstra: Zakim, aacc is me

16:59:36 <Zakim> +Rinke; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Rinke; got it

16:59:41 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

16:59:41 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

17:00:27 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

17:00:42 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.276.aadd

17:00:58 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: +Evan_Wallace

17:01:24 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

17:01:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see bcuencagrau (muted), msmith, IanH, bmotik (muted), Rinke, Sandro, +1.518.276.aadd, Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bcuencagrau (muted), msmith, IanH, bmotik (muted), Rinke, Sandro, +1.518.276.aadd, Evan_Wallace

17:01:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see DougL, m_schnei, bmotik, RRSAgent, IanH, Zakim, bcuencagrau, Rinke, ewallace, msmith, pfps, sandro, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see DougL, m_schnei, bmotik, RRSAgent, IanH, Zakim, bcuencagrau, Rinke, ewallace, msmith, pfps, sandro, trackbot-ng

17:01:27 <Zakim> + +1.512.342.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.512.342.aaee

17:01:41 <DougL> Zakim, aaee is me

Doug Lenat: Zakim, aaee is me

17:01:41 <Zakim> +DougL; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +DougL; got it

17:02:36 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

17:02:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see bcuencagrau (muted), msmith, IanH, bmotik (muted), Rinke, Sandro, +1.518.276.aadd, Evan_Wallace, DougL

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bcuencagrau (muted), msmith, IanH, bmotik (muted), Rinke, Sandro, +1.518.276.aadd, Evan_Wallace, DougL

17:02:41 <Rinke> Zakim, aadd is baojie

Rinke Hoekstra: Zakim, aadd is baojie

17:02:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see baojie, DougL, m_schnei, bmotik, RRSAgent, IanH, Zakim, bcuencagrau, Rinke, ewallace, msmith, pfps, sandro, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see baojie, DougL, m_schnei, bmotik, RRSAgent, IanH, Zakim, bcuencagrau, Rinke, ewallace, msmith, pfps, sandro, trackbot-ng

17:02:47 <Zakim> +baojie; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +baojie; got it

17:02:53 <Zakim> +??P11

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11

17:02:58 <m_schnei> zakim, ??P11 is me

Michael Schneider: zakim, ??P11 is me

17:03:01 <Zakim> +m_schnei; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +m_schnei; got it

17:03:01 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

17:03:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see bcuencagrau (muted), msmith, IanH, bmotik (muted), Rinke, Sandro, baojie, Evan_Wallace, DougL, m_schnei

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bcuencagrau (muted), msmith, IanH, bmotik (muted), Rinke, Sandro, baojie, Evan_Wallace, DougL, m_schnei

17:03:06 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

17:03:14 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted

17:03:16 <Zakim> On IRC I see alanr, baojie, DougL, m_schnei, bmotik, RRSAgent, IanH, Zakim, bcuencagrau, Rinke, ewallace, msmith, pfps, sandro, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see alanr, baojie, DougL, m_schnei, bmotik, RRSAgent, IanH, Zakim, bcuencagrau, Rinke, ewallace, msmith, pfps, sandro, trackbot-ng

17:03:32 <Zakim> +Alan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Alan

17:03:32 <IanH> Peter, you are scribing today?

Ian Horrocks: Peter, you are scribing today?

17:03:38 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

17:03:38 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

17:03:40 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

17:03:46 <pfps> yes, I'm trying to dial in

Peter Patel-Schneider: yes, I'm trying to dial in

17:03:54 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider

Zakim IRC Bot: +Peter_Patel-Schneider

17:04:03 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

17:04:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see bcuencagrau (muted), msmith, IanH, bmotik (muted), Rinke, Sandro, baojie, Evan_Wallace, DougL, m_schnei (muted), Alan, Ivan, Peter_Patel-Schneider

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bcuencagrau (muted), msmith, IanH, bmotik (muted), Rinke, Sandro, baojie, Evan_Wallace, DougL, m_schnei (muted), Alan, Ivan, Peter_Patel-Schneider

17:04:07 <Zakim> On IRC I see ivan, alanr, baojie, DougL, m_schnei, bmotik, RRSAgent, IanH, Zakim, bcuencagrau, Rinke, ewallace, msmith, pfps, sandro, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see ivan, alanr, baojie, DougL, m_schnei, bmotik, RRSAgent, IanH, Zakim, bcuencagrau, Rinke, ewallace, msmith, pfps, sandro, trackbot-ng

17:04:43 <sandro> baojie, I don't see any message from you on IRC.    Perhaps your IRC isn't working right?   Including, I don't see you saying "Zakim, aadd is me", which it sounds like you think you said.

Sandro Hawke: baojie, I don't see any message from you on IRC. Perhaps your IRC isn't working right? Including, I don't see you saying "Zakim, aadd is me", which it sounds like you think you said.

17:04:53 <sandro> scribe: pfps

(Scribe set to Peter Patel-Schneider)

17:04:58 <Zakim> +[IBM]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM]

17:05:04 <baojie> i'm no

Jie Bao: i'm no

17:05:12 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

17:05:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see bcuencagrau (muted), msmith, IanH, bmotik (muted), Rinke, Sandro, baojie, Evan_Wallace, DougL, m_schnei (muted), Alan, Ivan, Peter_Patel-Schneider, [IBM]

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bcuencagrau (muted), msmith, IanH, bmotik (muted), Rinke, Sandro, baojie, Evan_Wallace, DougL, m_schnei (muted), Alan, Ivan, Peter_Patel-Schneider, [IBM]

17:05:13 <baojie> i'm on

Jie Bao: i'm on

17:05:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see Achille, ivan, alanr, baojie, DougL, m_schnei, bmotik, RRSAgent, IanH, Zakim, bcuencagrau, Rinke, ewallace, msmith, pfps, sandro, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Achille, ivan, alanr, baojie, DougL, m_schnei, bmotik, RRSAgent, IanH, Zakim, bcuencagrau, Rinke, ewallace, msmith, pfps, sandro, trackbot-ng

17:05:24 <Achille> Zakim, IBM is Achille

Achille Fokoue: Zakim, IBM is Achille

17:05:24 <Zakim> +Achille; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Achille; got it

17:05:45 <pfps> topic: admin

1. admin

17:06:03 <pfps> ian: agenda amendments?

Ian Horrocks: agenda amendments?

17:06:25 <pfps> zhe: jim and deb don't want to vote today

Zhe Wu: jim and deb don't want to vote today

17:06:53 <pfps> ian: opinions on this?

Ian Horrocks: opinions on this?

17:07:01 <pfps> doug: this is a bad precedent

Doug Lenat: this is a bad precedent

17:07:06 <pfps> +1

+1

17:07:24 <alanr> We can vote at the f2f, no?

Alan Ruttenberg: We can vote at the f2f, no?

17:07:46 <msmith> agenda says " Formal votes to publish"

Michael Smith: agenda says " Formal votes to publish"

17:07:48 <alanr> Is a vote pressing? I know I said we would, last week, but I'm not sure that it is.

Alan Ruttenberg: Is a vote pressing? I know I said we would, last week, but I'm not sure that it is necessary.

17:07:53 <pfps> sandro: chair to email says - not on agenda therefore not vote

Sandro Hawke: chair to email says - not on agenda therefore not vote

17:07:58 <alanr> it is necessary

Alan Ruttenberg: it is necessary

17:08:02 <pfps> ian: was on agenda

Ian Horrocks: was on agenda

17:08:06 <m_schnei> I understood  "Formal votes to publish" as a discussion *about* voting

Michael Schneider: I understood "Formal votes to publish" as a discussion *about* voting

17:08:10 <alanr> s/that it is/that it is necessary/
17:08:23 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

17:08:54 <m_schnei> -1 to vote today: I must not vote, because FZI has not yet come to a conclusion

Michael Schneider: -1 to vote today: I must not vote, because FZI has not yet come to a conclusion

17:09:44 <pfps> q+

q+

17:09:55 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:09:57 <pfps> ian: unhappy with delay

Ian Horrocks: unhappy with delay

17:10:35 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:10:39 <pfps> alan: delay until face-to-face

Alan Ruttenberg: delay until face-to-face

17:10:44 <DougL> (My other point was that the net effect will be the same as they want, namely very unlikely we will vote to accept it as is)

Doug Lenat: (My other point was that the net effect will be the same as they want, namely very unlikely we will vote to accept it as is)

17:10:47 <alanr> ack alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr

17:10:54 <alanr> they did to chair

Alan Ruttenberg: they did to chair

17:10:54 <m_schnei> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

17:11:01 <IanH> ack pfps

Ian Horrocks: ack pfps

17:11:10 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

17:11:10 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted

17:11:12 <pfps> pfps: neither jim nor debora indicated regrets on the Wiki

Peter Patel-Schneider: neither jim nor debora indicated regrets on the Wiki

17:11:29 <sandro> sandro: they did send details to chairs, though.

Sandro Hawke: they did send details to chairs, though. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

17:11:55 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

17:11:55 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted

17:12:04 <pfps> michael: I thought that the agenda item was to discuss a vote, I have not discussed the issues with my colleagues

Scribe problem: the name 'michael' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Michael Smith Michael Schneider Michael Sintek . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Unknown michael: I thought that the agenda item was to discuss a vote, I have not discussed the issues with my colleagues

17:12:13 <sandro> m_schnei: I thought the agenda item was about TALKING ABOUT VOTING, not that we would vote to publish/not-publish.

Michael Schneider: I thought the agenda item was about TALKING ABOUT VOTING, not that we would vote to publish/not-publish. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

17:12:22 <pfps> ian: let's continue and see if the issue arises

Ian Horrocks: let's continue and see if the issue arises

17:12:42 <pfps> topic: minutes

2. minutes

17:12:45 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?

Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, pointer?

17:12:45 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/03/19-owl-irc#T17-12-45

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/03/19-owl-irc#T17-12-45

17:12:52 <pfps> PROPOSED: accept previous minutes

PROPOSED: accept previous minutes

17:12:56 <DougL> +1 for minutes

Doug Lenat: +1 for minutes

17:13:00 <msmith> +1 for minutes

Michael Smith: +1 for minutes

17:13:03 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1

17:13:09 <Achille> +1

Achille Fokoue: +1

17:13:11 <m_schnei> +1

Michael Schneider: +1

17:13:15 <pfps> RESOLVED: accept previous minutes

RESOLVED: accept previous minutes

17:14:15 <pfps> ian: face to face signup - lots of unknowns remain

Ian Horrocks: face to face signup - lots of unknowns remain

17:14:22 <msmith> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/F2F2_People

Michael Smith: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/F2F2_People

17:15:08 <msmith> http://www.w3.org/mid/20080318.165305.186101196.pfps@research.bell-labs.com

Michael Smith: http://www.w3.org/mid/20080318.165305.186101196.pfps@research.bell-labs.com

17:15:14 <m_schnei> PayPal works too

Michael Schneider: PayPal works too

17:15:34 <pfps> ian: registration for F2F - fees for uncovered expenses

Ian Horrocks: registration for F2F - fees for uncovered expenses

17:15:42 <m_schnei> in EUR: about 60 EUR

Michael Schneider: in EUR: about 60 EUR

17:15:56 <pfps> topic: action item status

3. action item status

17:17:39 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:17:41 <pfps> ian: pending actions done - 103, 106, 107, 110

Ian Horrocks: pending actions done - 103, 106, 107, 110

17:17:51 <m_schnei> q-

Michael Schneider: q-

17:17:52 <alanr> my due actions need to be continued - been sick this week :(

Alan Ruttenberg: my due actions need to be continued - been sick this week :(

17:17:55 <IanH> ack m_schnei

Ian Horrocks: ack m_schnei

17:18:04 <m_schnei> q-

Michael Schneider: q-

17:18:12 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

17:18:12 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted

17:18:21 <alanr> please do

Alan Ruttenberg: please do

17:19:22 <bmotik> We used to close the action once people have done them.

Boris Motik: We used to close the action once people have done them.

17:19:56 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

17:19:57 <pfps> ian: should we close now or close when done?

Ian Horrocks: should we close now or close when done?

17:20:00 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

17:20:00 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

17:20:38 <alanr> +1 to boris. Add an issue for things that need to be worked on by the group

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 to boris. Add an issue for things that need to be worked on by the group

17:20:52 <pfps> boris: prefer closing when performed

Boris Motik: prefer closing when performed

17:21:07 <pfps> sandro: pending review allows the group to check that the action was done

Sandro Hawke: pending review allows the group to check that the action was done

17:22:03 <alanr> for peter's action, we have an actual issue that the action was for

Alan Ruttenberg: for peter's action, we have an actual issue that the action was for

17:22:53 <pfps> boris: issues serve to keep track of what happened

Boris Motik: issues serve to keep track of what happened

17:23:05 <alanr> we should have an issue: Decide on second set of drafts for publishing.

Alan Ruttenberg: we should have an issue: Decide on second set of drafts for publishing.

17:23:15 <pfps> ian: process needs to be refined

Ian Horrocks: process needs to be refined

17:23:21 <alanr> ok

Alan Ruttenberg: ok

17:23:29 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:23:30 <ewallace> Document reviews are the new wrinkle to action reviews

Evan Wallace: Document reviews are the new wrinkle to action reviews

17:23:34 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

17:23:42 <pfps> ian: due and overdue actions

Ian Horrocks: due and overdue actions

17:23:44 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

17:23:44 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

17:24:06 <pfps> ian: action 43

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-43

17:24:18 <pfps> sandro: not done, move date two weeks

Sandro Hawke: not done, move date two weeks

17:24:28 <alanr> continue

Alan Ruttenberg: continue

17:24:29 <pfps> ian: action 72

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-72

17:24:52 <pfps> alan: continue for a week

Alan Ruttenberg: continue for a week

17:25:00 <pfps> ian: action 76

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-76

17:25:18 <sandro> zakim, who is on the phone?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the phone?

17:25:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see bcuencagrau (muted), msmith, IanH, bmotik (muted), Rinke, Sandro, baojie, Evan_Wallace, DougL, m_schnei (muted), Alan, Ivan, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Achille

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bcuencagrau (muted), msmith, IanH, bmotik (muted), Rinke, Sandro, baojie, Evan_Wallace, DougL, m_schnei (muted), Alan, Ivan, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Achille

17:25:20 <pfps> ian: no jeremy so continue for a week

Ian Horrocks: no jeremy so continue for a week

17:25:35 <pfps> ian: action 86 and 90 - similar

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-86 and 90 - similar

17:25:54 <sandro> Present: bcuencagrau, msmith, IanH, bmotik, Rinke, Sandro, baojie, Evan_Wallace, DougL, m_schnei, Alan, Ivan, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Achille
17:26:00 <pfps> ian: action 100 - no jim

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-100 - no jim

17:26:07 <pfps> jie: no information so continue

Jie Bao: no information so continue

17:26:17 <alanr> there was mail on 102

Alan Ruttenberg: there was mail on 102

17:26:18 <pfps> ian 101: alan - continue

ian 101: alan - continue

17:26:25 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

17:26:25 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted

17:26:29 <pfps> ian: action 102

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-102

17:26:36 <alanr> http://www.w3.org/mid/0EF30CAA69519C4CB91D01481AEA06A08034A4@judith.fzi.de

Alan Ruttenberg: http://www.w3.org/mid/0EF30CAA69519C4CB91D01481AEA06A08034A4@judith.fzi.de

17:27:06 <pfps> michael: email today but is it adequate? review again next week

Scribe problem: the name 'michael' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Michael Smith Michael Schneider . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Unknown michael: email today but is it adequate? review again next week

17:27:07 <alanr> we have an associated issue

Alan Ruttenberg: we have an associated issue

17:27:09 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

17:27:09 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted

17:27:15 <pfps> ian: action 104

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-104

17:27:36 <ewallace> I have to leave the meeting now.  Sorry.

Evan Wallace: I have to leave the meeting now. Sorry.

17:27:39 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: -Evan_Wallace

17:28:12 <pfps> achille: started but still ongoing, done by end of this week

Achille Fokoue: started but still ongoing, done by end of this week

17:28:18 <pfps> ian: please adjust due date

Ian Horrocks: please adjust due date

17:28:28 <DougL> The Primer page is:  http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Primer

Doug Lenat: The Primer page is: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Primer

17:28:37 <pfps> ian: action 104 - deb not here

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-104 - deb not here

17:28:44 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:28:47 <baojie> q+

Jie Bao: q+

17:29:18 <pfps> doug: I did a review for this action

Doug Lenat: I did a review for this action

17:29:42 <pfps> ian: is the action done

Ian Horrocks: is the action done

17:29:51 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:29:53 <pfps> doug: new action to look at comments

Doug Lenat: new action to look at comments

17:29:55 <alanr> deb was separate review

Alan Ruttenberg: deb was separate review

17:30:09 <baojie> q+

Jie Bao: q+

17:30:42 <pfps> jie: I did a review as well

Jie Bao: I did a review as well

17:30:47 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:30:53 <IanH> ack baojie

Ian Horrocks: ack baojie

17:30:53 <pfps> jie: deb will finish her review soon

Jie Bao: deb will finish her review soon

17:31:14 <pfps> ian: leave open

Ian Horrocks: leave open

17:31:19 <pfps> ian: action 108

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-108

17:31:30 <pfps> sandro: started, not finished, continue

Sandro Hawke: started, not finished, continue

17:31:42 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

17:31:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see bcuencagrau (muted), msmith, IanH, bmotik (muted), Rinke, Sandro, baojie, DougL, m_schnei (muted), Alan, Ivan, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Achille

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bcuencagrau (muted), msmith, IanH, bmotik (muted), Rinke, Sandro, baojie, DougL, m_schnei (muted), Alan, Ivan, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Achille

17:31:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see Achille, ivan, alanr, baojie, DougL, m_schnei, bmotik, RRSAgent, IanH, Zakim, bcuencagrau, Rinke, ewallace, msmith, pfps, sandro, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Achille, ivan, alanr, baojie, DougL, m_schnei, bmotik, RRSAgent, IanH, Zakim, bcuencagrau, Rinke, ewallace, msmith, pfps, sandro, trackbot-ng

17:31:51 <pfps> ian: action 109 on bijan, no bijan so continue

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-109 on bijan, no bijan so continue

17:32:12 <pfps> topic: proposals to resolve issues

4. proposals to resolve issues

17:32:28 <pfps> ian: issue 102

Ian Horrocks: ISSUE-102

17:33:17 <alanr> +1 to accept

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 to accept

17:33:22 <pfps> pfps: proposal is to add a new kind of entity to functional syntax

Peter Patel-Schneider: proposal is to add a new kind of entity to functional syntax

17:33:29 <msmith> bmotik sent email in support

Michael Smith: bmotik sent email in support

17:33:45 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1

17:33:47 <Rinke> +1 to accept

Rinke Hoekstra: +1 to accept

17:33:47 <pfps> PROPOSED: resolve issue 102 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0149.html

PROPOSED: resolve ISSUE-102 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0149.html

17:33:48 <m_schnei> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

17:33:49 <msmith> +1 to accept as proposed

Michael Smith: +1 to accept as proposed

17:33:53 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

17:33:53 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted

17:33:54 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:33:55 <bcuencagrau> +1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1

17:33:58 <DougL> +1

Doug Lenat: +1

17:33:59 <bmotik> q+ to ask a process question

Boris Motik: q+ to ask a process question

17:34:00 <alanr> we need to do the PROPOSED/ RESOLVED dance

Alan Ruttenberg: we need to do the PROPOSED/ RESOLVED dance

17:34:10 <m_schnei> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/issues/102

Michael Schneider: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/issues/102

17:34:16 <pfps> michael: there were several emails on the issue

Scribe problem: the name 'michael' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Michael Smith Michael Schneider . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Unknown michael: there were several emails on the issue

17:34:21 <alanr> related, but separable topic covered by another issue

Alan Ruttenberg: related, but separable topic covered by another issue

17:34:32 <msmith> conversation was from the report

Michael Smith: conversation was from the report

17:35:20 <ivan> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0169.html is a typical case

Ivan Herman: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0169.html is a typical case

17:35:38 <pfps> alan: most of the conversation was about a different issue - isolated typing triples

Alan Ruttenberg: most of the conversation was about a different issue - isolated typing triples

17:35:52 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

17:35:52 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted

17:36:00 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

17:36:00 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

17:36:06 <bmotik> Yes.

Boris Motik: Yes.

17:36:08 <IanH> Q?

Ian Horrocks: Q?

17:36:16 <ivan> ack m_schnei

Ivan Herman: ack m_schnei

17:36:23 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

17:36:23 <Zakim> bmotik, you wanted to ask a process question

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik, you wanted to ask a process question

17:36:23 <ivan> ack bmotik

Ivan Herman: ack bmotik

17:36:44 <alanr> boris is right.

Alan Ruttenberg: boris is right.

17:36:47 <pfps> boris: what is the process?

Boris Motik: what is the process?

17:36:50 <pfps> q+

q+

17:37:12 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:37:18 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

17:37:18 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

17:37:19 <alanr> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/issues/89

Alan Ruttenberg: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/issues/89

17:37:21 <pfps> ian: this is to resolve -

Ian Horrocks: this is to resolve -

17:37:29 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

17:37:29 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

17:38:08 <pfps> pfps: my recollection is that we are going to resolve / close.  there may be an action generated or the action may be implicit

Peter Patel-Schneider: my recollection is that we are going to resolve / close. there may be an action generated or the action may be implicit

17:38:57 <pfps> sandro: let's have a short process

Sandro Hawke: let's have a short process

17:39:00 <pfps> ian: agreed

Ian Horrocks: agreed

17:39:39 <alanr> ok

Alan Ruttenberg: ok

17:39:52 <pfps> ian: let's vote to close and give boris an action

Ian Horrocks: let's vote to close and give boris an action

17:40:02 <sandro> <pfps> PROPOSED: resolve issue 102 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0149.html

Sandro Hawke: <pfps> PROPOSED: resolve ISSUE-102 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0149.html

17:40:05 <bmotik> ACTION: bmotik2 to Update the spec to resolve ISSUE-102 as per Peter's e-mail

ACTION: bmotik2 to Update the spec to resolve ISSUE-102 as per Peter's e-mail

17:40:05 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-113 - Update the spec to resolve ISSUE-102 as per Peter's e-mail [on Boris Motik - due 2008-03-26].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-113 - Update the spec to resolve ISSUE-102 as per Peter's e-mail [on Boris Motik - due 2008-03-26].

17:40:08 <pfps> RESOLVED: resolve issue 102 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0149.html

RESOLVED: resolve ISSUE-102 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0149.html

17:40:34 <bmotik> I'll do it

Boris Motik: I'll do it

17:40:48 <bmotik> OK, Ian will do it.

Boris Motik: OK, Ian will do it.

17:40:48 <pfps> sandro:  who will update tracker

Sandro Hawke: who will update tracker

17:40:52 <pfps> ian: I'll do it

Ian Horrocks: I'll do it

17:41:00 <pfps> ian: issue 79, proposal from carsten

Ian Horrocks: ISSUE-79, proposal from carsten

17:41:23 <pfps> PROPOSED: resolve issue 79 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0191.html

PROPOSED: resolve ISSUE-79 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0191.html

17:41:45 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:41:50 <pfps> q-

q-

17:42:00 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1

17:42:01 <pfps> +1 to resolve

+1 to resolve

17:42:03 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1

17:42:04 <bcuencagrau> +1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1

17:42:04 <msmith> +1 to resolving issue 79 as in email

Michael Smith: +1 to resolving ISSUE-79 as in email

17:42:05 <Rinke> +1

Rinke Hoekstra: +1

17:42:08 <baojie> +1

Jie Bao: +1

17:42:08 <DougL> +1

Doug Lenat: +1

17:42:09 <sandro> +0

Sandro Hawke: +0

17:42:20 <pfps> RESOLVED: resolve issue 79 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0191.htm

RESOLVED: resolve ISSUE-79 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0191.htm

17:42:45 <pfps> ian: issue 78

Ian Horrocks: ISSUE-78

17:42:48 <m_schnei> -1 to call EL++ "OWL-Lite"

Michael Schneider: -1 to call EL++ "OWL-Lite"

17:42:55 <ivan> -1

Ivan Herman: -1

17:42:56 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:43:02 <alanr> -1

Alan Ruttenberg: -1

17:43:04 <pfps> PROPOSED: resolve issue 78 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0194.html

PROPOSED: resolve ISSUE-78 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0194.html

17:43:10 <bmotik> +1 to close as as rejected

Boris Motik: +1 to close as as rejected

17:43:24 <ivan> -1: do not call EL++ as OWL Lite

Scribe problem: the name '-1' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown -1: do not call EL++ as OWL Lite [ Scribe Assist by Ivan Herman ]

17:43:28 <Achille> -1

Achille Fokoue: -1

17:43:30 <baojie> -1

Jie Bao: -1

17:43:31 <pfps> +1 to close a rejected

+1 to close a rejected

17:43:32 <Rinke> +1 to resolve issue, -1 to the name OWL Lite for EL++, which I guess is a close as reject

Rinke Hoekstra: +1 to resolve issue, -1 to the name OWL Lite for EL++, which I guess is a close as reject

17:43:39 <msmith> +1 to resolving issue as in email.  i.e., -1 to renaming EL++ OWL-Lite

Michael Smith: +1 to resolving issue as in email. i.e., -1 to renaming EL++ OWL-Lite

17:43:42 <DougL> let's try this again

Doug Lenat: let's try this again

17:43:56 <ivan> +1 to close!

Ivan Herman: +1 to close!

17:43:56 <Achille> +1 to reject

Achille Fokoue: +1 to reject

17:44:04 <alanr> +1 to reject

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 to reject

17:44:10 <m_schnei> +1 to reject

Michael Schneider: +1 to reject

17:44:13 <DougL> +1 to accept the rejection

Doug Lenat: +1 to accept the rejection

17:44:18 <ivan> +1 to close, reject, and do not call EL++ as OWL Lite

Ivan Herman: +1 to close, reject, and do not call EL++ as OWL Lite

17:44:52 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?

Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, pointer?

17:44:52 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/03/19-owl-irc#T17-44-52

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/03/19-owl-irc#T17-44-52

17:45:26 <pfps> RESOLVED: reject issue 78 as  in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0194.html

RESOLVED: reject ISSUE-78 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0194.html

17:45:37 <pfps> ian: issue 75

Ian Horrocks: ISSUE-75

17:46:08 <alanr> resolved

Alan Ruttenberg: resolved

17:46:11 <bmotik> +1 to close as rejected

Boris Motik: +1 to close as rejected

17:46:15 <Carsten> argh, messed up the time

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: argh, messed up the time

17:46:17 <alanr> close as resolved

Alan Ruttenberg: close as resolved

17:46:20 <pfps> PROPOSED: new name for fragments document solves issue 75 so it can be resolved

PROPOSED: new name for fragments document solves ISSUE-75 so it can be resolved

17:46:31 <pfps> +1

+1

17:46:34 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1

17:46:37 <Rinke> +1

Rinke Hoekstra: +1

17:46:41 <msmith> +1 to resolving issue 75

Michael Smith: +1 to resolving ISSUE-75

17:46:43 <DougL> +1

Doug Lenat: +1

17:46:43 <Achille> +1

Achille Fokoue: +1

17:46:44 <m_schnei> +1

Michael Schneider: +1

17:46:54 <pfps> RESOLVED: new name for fragments document solves issue 75 so it can be resolved (closed)

RESOLVED: new name for fragments document solves ISSUE-75 so it can be resolved (closed)

17:47:05 <Zakim> + +49.351.463.3.aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: + +49.351.463.3.aaff

17:47:11 <Carsten> zakim, aaff is me

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: zakim, aaff is me

17:47:11 <Zakim> +Carsten; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Carsten; got it

17:47:14 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:47:20 <m_schnei> Carsten proposed "My proposal is to call the document simply "Fragments of OWL"

Michael Schneider: Carsten proposed "My proposal is to call the document simply "Fragments of OWL"

17:47:26 <pfps> ian: issue 16

Ian Horrocks: ISSUE-16

17:47:33 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

17:47:33 <Zakim> bmotik was not muted, bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik was not muted, bmotik

17:47:40 <Carsten> zakim, mute me

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: zakim, mute me

17:47:40 <Zakim> Carsten should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Carsten should now be muted

17:47:54 <pfps> PROPOSED: resolve issue 16 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0168.html

PROPOSED: resolve ISSUE-16 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0168.html

17:48:01 <msmith> q+ to ask boris this proposal

Michael Smith: q+ to ask boris this proposal

17:48:14 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:48:14 <pfps> boris: the resolution is to change the functional syntax to move annotations outside of axioms

Boris Motik: the resolution is to change the functional syntax to move annotations outside of axioms

17:48:42 <pfps> msmith: does this make axioms inside annotations be virtual

Michael Smith: does this make axioms inside annotations be virtual

17:48:45 <pfps> boris: yes

Boris Motik: yes

17:48:51 <pfps> q+

q+

17:49:15 <pfps> boris: we may reconsider when we do a larger view of annotations

Boris Motik: we may reconsider when we do a larger view of annotations

17:49:17 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:49:20 <msmith> q-

Michael Smith: q-

17:49:22 <ivan> ack msmith

Ivan Herman: ack msmith

17:49:25 <ivan> ack pfps

Ivan Herman: ack pfps

17:49:37 <pfps> pfps: boris please reiterate answer

Peter Patel-Schneider: boris please reiterate answer

17:49:42 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:49:58 <m_schnei> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

17:50:00 <pfps> boris: axioms inside annotations are not necessary in the ontology

Boris Motik: axioms inside annotations are not necessary in the ontology

17:50:05 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:50:06 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

17:50:15 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:50:26 <pfps> pfps: if this is case I vote against

Peter Patel-Schneider: if this is case I vote against

17:51:06 <pfps> pfps: I want axioms in the ontology to be part of the ontology

Peter Patel-Schneider: I want axioms in the ontology to be part of the ontology

17:51:24 <Carsten> Do I get it right that all my proposals were resolved just before I called in ? :P

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: Do I get it right that all my proposals were resolved just before I called in ? :P

17:51:28 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:51:36 <Rinke> Carsten, yes they were

Rinke Hoekstra: Carsten, yes they were

17:51:42 <pfps> ian: this is supposed to be a short discussion

Ian Horrocks: this is supposed to be a short discussion

17:51:44 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

17:51:44 <Zakim> m_schnei was not muted, m_schnei

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei was not muted, m_schnei

17:52:03 <pfps> michael: what is the difference between issue 16 and issue 102?

Scribe problem: the name 'michael' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Michael Smith Michael Schneider . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Unknown michael: what is the difference between ISSUE-16 and ISSUE-102?

17:52:06 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

17:52:06 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted

17:52:15 <bmotik> There is a big difference

Boris Motik: There is a big difference

17:52:27 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:52:33 <IanH> ack m_schnei

Ian Horrocks: ack m_schnei

17:52:39 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:53:23 <pfps> alan:  can axioms be the object of an annotation

Alan Ruttenberg: can axioms be the object of an annotation

17:53:45 <bmotik> Just for the record: I don't have a problem whatsoever with Peter's requirement

Boris Motik: Just for the record: I don't have a problem whatsoever with Peter's requirement

17:53:57 <pfps> ian: defer to discussion list

Ian Horrocks: defer to discussion list

17:54:00 <alanr> in a moment

Alan Ruttenberg: in a moment

17:54:15 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:54:20 <alanr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0189.html

Alan Ruttenberg: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0189.html

17:54:23 <IanH> ack alanr

Ian Horrocks: ack alanr

17:54:25 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

17:54:25 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

17:54:38 <pfps> alan: what about issue 86

Alan Ruttenberg: what about ISSUE-86

17:54:47 <pfps> ian: no notice so put on next week's agenda

Ian Horrocks: no notice so put on next week's agenda

17:55:04 <pfps> topic: general discussion - publication

5. general discussion - publication

17:55:08 <m_schnei> 86 is not a trivial issue: I first want to think deeper about it

Michael Schneider: 86 is not a trivial issue: I first want to think deeper about it

17:55:18 <DougL> q+

Doug Lenat: q+

17:55:23 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:55:26 <baojie> q+

Jie Bao: q+

17:55:49 <pfps> doug: i made edits in the primer, and put in a few reviewer boxes, please look at them

Doug Lenat: i made edits in the primer, and put in a few reviewer boxes, please look at them

17:56:02 <pfps> ian: is the primer close to publishable?

Ian Horrocks: is the primer close to publishable?

17:56:26 <pfps> doug: not exactly, there are missing sections, I would like them to be at least outlined

Doug Lenat: not exactly, there are missing sections, I would like them to be at least outlined

17:56:36 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:56:42 <pfps> doug: no harm to release it, but we should have something done

Doug Lenat: no harm to release it, but we should have something done

17:56:50 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:56:50 <Achille> +q

Achille Fokoue: +q

17:56:54 <Achille> q+

Achille Fokoue: q+

17:56:54 <pfps> jie: i reviewed the primer

Jie Bao: i reviewed the primer

17:56:57 <IanH> ack DougL

Ian Horrocks: ack DougL

17:57:04 <IanH> ack baojie

Ian Horrocks: ack baojie

17:57:12 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:57:18 <alanr> answering peter: See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0167.html to understand that answer is addressed by Boris' solution to Issue-16, but not spoken to by issue 102, which addressed a general question of whether annotation properties are entities themselves.

Alan Ruttenberg: answering peter: See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0167.html to understand that answer is addressed by Boris' solution to ISSUE-16, but not spoken to by ISSUE-102, which addressed a general question of whether annotation properties are entities themselves.

17:57:45 <pfps> jie: who will be the reader? web end users may need an easier-to-read document

Jie Bao: who will be the reader? web end users may need an easier-to-read document

17:57:49 <msmith> q+ to say fragment doc is publishable pending some editorial changes from Achille and my review

Michael Smith: q+ to say fragment doc is publishable pending some editorial changes from Achille and my review

17:58:13 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

17:58:13 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted

17:58:14 <pfps> jie: separate section for ??

Jie Bao: separate section for ??

17:58:19 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:58:24 <IanH> ack Achille

Ian Horrocks: ack Achille

17:58:39 <pfps> achille: xml is OK, I have only minor comments

Achille Fokoue: xml is OK, I have only minor comments

17:59:22 <pfps> achille: fragments I have a lot of issues wrt OWL-R especially OWL-R Full

Achille Fokoue: fragments I have a lot of issues wrt OWL-R especially OWL-R Full

17:59:39 <pfps> achille: OWL-R Full semantics hard to read

Achille Fokoue: OWL-R Full semantics hard to read

18:00:15 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:00:25 <pfps> achille: maybe move some semantics stuff to appendix

Achille Fokoue: maybe move some semantics stuff to appendix

18:00:43 <IanH> ack msmith

Ian Horrocks: ack msmith

18:00:43 <Zakim> msmith, you wanted to say fragment doc is publishable pending some editorial changes from Achille and my review

Zakim IRC Bot: msmith, you wanted to say fragment doc is publishable pending some editorial changes from Achille and my review

18:00:48 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:00:51 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

18:01:00 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:01:08 <pfps> msmith:  fragment doc is publishable pending some editorial changes from Achille and my review

Michael Smith: fragment doc is publishable pending some editorial changes from Achille and my review

18:01:13 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

18:01:13 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

18:01:18 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:01:32 <Zakim> +??P9

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9

18:01:44 <uli> zakim, ??P9 is me

Scribe problem: the name 'uli' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'uli' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown uli: zakim, ??P9 is me

18:01:44 <Zakim> +uli; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +uli; got it

18:02:11 <Achille> q+

Achille Fokoue: q+

18:02:18 <pfps> boris: purpose of OWL-R semantics section is to provide meaning of vocabulary and show the weakenings

Boris Motik: purpose of OWL-R semantics section is to provide meaning of vocabulary and show the weakenings

18:02:37 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:02:42 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

18:02:50 <pfps> boris: if there are just rules then there is no connection to regular semantics

Boris Motik: if there are just rules then there is no connection to regular semantics

18:03:06 <pfps> boris:  an appendix does not have the same impact - may as well delete then

Boris Motik: an appendix does not have the same impact - may as well delete then

18:03:31 <uli> zakim, mute me

Scribe problem: the name 'uli' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'uli' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown uli: zakim, mute me

18:03:31 <Zakim> uli should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted

18:03:31 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:03:34 <pfps> achille: I had a different impression - independent formal presentation

Achille Fokoue: I had a different impression - independent formal presentation

18:03:41 <IanH> ack Achille

Ian Horrocks: ack Achille

18:03:58 <pfps> boris: the section is not for precision but instead is for guidance

Boris Motik: the section is not for precision but instead is for guidance

18:04:21 <pfps> achille: difficult to read because of dependence on OWL Full semantics

Achille Fokoue: difficult to read because of dependence on OWL Full semantics

18:04:26 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:05:01 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:05:20 <pfps> boris: could provide guidance on what the section is for

Boris Motik: could provide guidance on what the section is for

18:05:49 <pfps> ian: achille - can you help to revise section?

Ian Horrocks: achille - can you help to revise section?

18:06:10 <pfps> achille: OK, also part of my action item on the document

Achille Fokoue: OK, also part of my action item on the document

18:06:24 <pfps> boris: I can help as well

Boris Motik: I can help as well

18:06:37 <pfps> ian: OK, achille will do this as part of his revision action

Ian Horrocks: OK, achille will do this as part of his revision action

18:06:43 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:07:08 <alanr> Action: Alan and Ian to review the reviews

ACTION: Alan and Ian to review the reviews

18:07:08 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-114 - And Ian to review the reviews [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-03-26].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-114 - And Ian to review the reviews [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-03-26].

18:07:09 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

18:07:09 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

18:07:15 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:07:30 <pfps> ian: agenda item on fragments document, but we've already been discussing it

Ian Horrocks: agenda item on fragments document, but we've already been discussing it

18:07:34 <pfps> ian: formal votes?

Ian Horrocks: formal votes?

18:07:45 <alanr> can we decide to do this at the f2f?

Alan Ruttenberg: can we decide to do this at the f2f?

18:07:54 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:08:01 <pfps> ian: no document has full suite of clean reviews so defer?

Ian Horrocks: no document has full suite of clean reviews so defer?

18:08:09 <Rinke> I was wondering... do we need something like a quorum for voting?

Rinke Hoekstra: I was wondering... do we need something like a quorum for voting?

18:08:19 <Rinke> I mean, officially

Rinke Hoekstra: I mean, officially

18:08:24 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:08:30 <pfps> sandro: xml document - only small fixes - will they be addressed quickly?

Sandro Hawke: xml document - only small fixes - will they be addressed quickly?

18:09:14 <pfps> ian: boris, bernardo, peter

Ian Horrocks: boris, bernardo, peter

18:09:15 <pfps> q+

q+

18:09:23 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:09:40 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

18:09:47 <alanr> ack pfps

Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps

18:09:49 <pfps> pfps: I can do a quick pass to see what can be done

Peter Patel-Schneider: I can do a quick pass to see what can be done

18:10:22 <pfps> ian: how is the process going to work - an issue for each change?

Ian Horrocks: how is the process going to work - an issue for each change?

18:10:36 <pfps> sandro: editors should collaborate with reviewers

Sandro Hawke: editors should collaborate with reviewers

18:10:40 <pfps> q+

q+

18:10:46 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aagg

18:11:01 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:11:10 <pfps> ian: peter will address issues

Ian Horrocks: peter will address issues

18:11:31 <IanH> zakim, who is here

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here

18:11:31 <Zakim> IanH, you need to end that query with '?'

Zakim IRC Bot: IanH, you need to end that query with '?'

18:11:40 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

18:11:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see bcuencagrau (muted), msmith, IanH, bmotik (muted), Rinke, Sandro, baojie, DougL, m_schnei (muted), Alan, Ivan, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Achille, Carsten (muted),

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bcuencagrau (muted), msmith, IanH, bmotik (muted), Rinke, Sandro, baojie, DougL, m_schnei (muted), Alan, Ivan, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Achille, Carsten (muted),

18:11:43 <Zakim> ... uli (muted), +1.603.897.aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: ... uli (muted), +1.603.897.aagg

18:11:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see Zhe, uli, Carsten, Achille, ivan, alanr, baojie, DougL, m_schnei, bmotik, RRSAgent, IanH, Zakim, bcuencagrau, Rinke, ewallace, msmith, pfps, sandro, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Zhe, uli, Carsten, Achille, ivan, alanr, baojie, DougL, m_schnei, bmotik, RRSAgent, IanH, Zakim, bcuencagrau, Rinke, ewallace, msmith, pfps, sandro, trackbot-ng

18:11:59 <pfps> alan: next week let's look at the documents again, and do formal votes at F2F

Alan Ruttenberg: next week let's look at the documents again, and do formal votes at F2F

18:12:02 <Achille> +1

Achille Fokoue: +1

18:12:02 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:12:11 <alanr> ack alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr

18:12:13 <pfps> ian: no particular problem with that

Ian Horrocks: no particular problem with that

18:12:29 <pfps> pfps: what editors / authors

Peter Patel-Schneider: what editors / authors

18:12:45 <pfps> sandro: editor = author

Sandro Hawke: editor = author

18:13:06 <pfps> ian: de facto editors = those who are working on the documents

Ian Horrocks: de facto editors = those who are working on the documents

18:13:11 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:13:16 <pfps> sandro: w3c documents have editors

Sandro Hawke: w3c documents have editors

18:13:20 <IanH> ack pfps

Ian Horrocks: ack pfps

18:13:43 <sandro> Sandro: formally, in the W3C process, there are editors.   If this WG wants to call its editors "authors", that's okay.

Sandro Hawke: formally, in the W3C process, there are editors. If this WG wants to call its editors "authors", that's okay. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

18:13:51 <msmith> yes

Michael Smith: yes

18:13:55 <Zhe> Zakim, +1.603.897.aagg is me

Scribe problem: the name 'Zhe' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Zhe' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Zhe: Zakim, +1.603.897.aagg is me

18:13:55 <Zakim> +Zhe; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe; got it

18:14:01 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:14:08 <pfps> pfps: who is going to interact with the reviewers?

Peter Patel-Schneider: who is going to interact with the reviewers?

18:14:45 <pfps> alan: what is in the scope of editorship - things seem to be going OK

Alan Ruttenberg: what is in the scope of editorship - things seem to be going OK

18:15:04 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:15:12 <pfps> pfps: i disagree

Peter Patel-Schneider: i disagree

18:15:28 <pfps> ian: I can see both sides

Ian Horrocks: I can see both sides

18:15:35 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

18:15:41 <pfps> ian: we have reviews and demands from the reviews

Ian Horrocks: we have reviews and demands from the reviews

18:15:41 <sandro> q+ to ask about editors

Sandro Hawke: q+ to ask about editors

18:15:57 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:16:03 <IanH> ack sandro

Ian Horrocks: ack sandro

18:16:03 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to ask about editors

Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, you wanted to ask about editors

18:16:06 <pfps> ian: and no one assigned to respond

Ian Horrocks: and no one assigned to respond

18:16:16 <Rinke> I'm in favour of clarity as well, if only to formalise the current situation...

Rinke Hoekstra: I'm in favour of clarity as well, if only to formalise the current situation...

18:16:27 <pfps> sandro: my understanding was that authors was editors

Sandro Hawke: my understanding was that authors was editors

18:16:39 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:16:54 <pfps> alan: sometimes, but people have stepped up idependently

Alan Ruttenberg: sometimes, but people have stepped up idependently

18:17:05 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:17:21 <m_schnei> may I myself fix trivial editiorial bugs such as typos?

Michael Schneider: may I myself fix trivial editiorial bugs such as typos?

18:17:37 <pfps> alan: no decision on what editors do

Alan Ruttenberg: no decision on what editors do

18:17:43 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

18:17:44 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

18:18:01 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:18:05 <Rinke> q?

Rinke Hoekstra: q?

18:18:29 <sandro> PROPOSED: WG members should edit the wiki pages as they like, if they are confident everyone will be happy with the change.

PROPOSED: WG members should edit the wiki pages as they like, if they are confident everyone will be happy with the change.

18:18:37 <pfps> alan: good idea to encourage spontaneous fixes

Alan Ruttenberg: good idea to encourage spontaneous fixes

18:18:55 <pfps> ian: discuss at F2F

Ian Horrocks: discuss at F2F

18:18:55 <msmith> +1 to clarifying at f2f

Michael Smith: +1 to clarifying at f2f

18:18:57 <pfps> q+

q+

18:19:02 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:19:08 <pfps> alan: good idea to have F2F discussion

Alan Ruttenberg: good idea to have F2F discussion

18:19:09 <m_schnei> IIRC, editorial process was, those people fix, "who are working on the docs"

Michael Schneider: IIRC, editorial process was, those people fix, "who are working on the docs"

18:19:20 <sandro> Peter: We had that discussion at the last face-to-face

Peter Patel-Schneider: We had that discussion at the last face-to-face [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

18:19:23 <pfps> pfps: there was such a discussion at the last F2F

Peter Patel-Schneider: there was such a discussion at the last F2F

18:19:23 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:19:28 <IanH> ack pfps

Ian Horrocks: ack pfps

18:19:30 <Rinke> +1 to clarification at f2f

Rinke Hoekstra: +1 to clarification at f2f

18:19:39 <pfps> sandro: didn't we resolve on current situation?

Sandro Hawke: didn't we resolve on current situation?

18:19:40 <m_schnei> but if /I/ fix it myself, then I am working on the docs, of course ;-)

Michael Schneider: but if /I/ fix it myself, then I am working on the docs, of course ;-)

18:19:46 <alanr> yes

Alan Ruttenberg: yes

18:19:51 <pfps> ian: let's discuss at F2F

Ian Horrocks: let's discuss at F2F

18:20:18 <pfps> ian: no votes to publish today

Ian Horrocks: no votes to publish today

18:20:22 <alanr> let's start

Alan Ruttenberg: let's start

18:20:33 <pfps> topic: issues

6. issues

18:20:37 <pfps> ian: issue 100

Ian Horrocks: ISSUE-100

18:20:43 <sandro> [ scanning http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/F2F1_Minutes I see no record of talking about wikis like this.   :-(   ]

Sandro Hawke: [ scanning http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/F2F1_Minutes I see no record of talking about wikis like this. :-( ]

18:20:44 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:21:14 <pfps> alan: issue has not been firmly addressed, and it needs to be

Alan Ruttenberg: issue has not been firmly addressed, and it needs to be

18:21:15 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:21:34 <pfps> alan: can OWL 1.1 be completely embedded in RDF?

Alan Ruttenberg: can OWL 1.1 be completely embedded in RDF?

18:22:03 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:22:10 <pfps> alan: some valid OWL 1.0 DL ontologies are not completely embeddable in RDF

Alan Ruttenberg: some valid OWL 1.0 DL ontologies are not completely embeddable in RDF

18:22:14 <pfps> q+

q+

18:22:19 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

18:22:22 <pfps> alan: is RDF adequate for representing OWL

Alan Ruttenberg: is RDF adequate for representing OWL

18:22:30 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:23:25 <pfps> pfps: RDF was never adequate, it is not adequate, it never will be adequate

Peter Patel-Schneider: RDF was never adequate, it is not adequate, it never will be adequate

18:23:39 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:23:50 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:23:59 <IanH> ack pfps

Ian Horrocks: ack pfps

18:24:08 <uli> Alan, what is "the same"? Syntactically identical including order?

Scribe problem: the name 'uli' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'uli' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown uli: Alan, what is "the same"? Syntactically identical including order?

18:24:28 <sandro> pfps: going through RDF will lose order, of course.

Peter Patel-Schneider: going through RDF will lose order, of course. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

18:24:31 <sandro> ack bmotik

Sandro Hawke: ack bmotik

18:24:33 <IanH> Boris?

Ian Horrocks: Boris?

18:24:39 <pfps> pfps: if you want complete round tripping, then you have to mirror everything in the DL in RDF, which interferes with the RDF semantics

Peter Patel-Schneider: if you want complete round tripping, then you have to mirror everything in the DL in RDF, which interferes with the RDF semantics

18:24:44 <alanr> I don't understand what peter is saying

Alan Ruttenberg: I don't understand what peter is saying

18:24:53 <pfps> boris: I agree with peter

Boris Motik: I agree with peter

18:25:28 <pfps> boris: RDF is a straightjacket, everything is a triple

Boris Motik: RDF is a straightjacket, everything is a triple

18:25:40 <sandro> Scribe: pfps
18:25:48 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:25:49 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

18:25:53 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:25:54 <pfps> boris: you can reify and encode and thus retain the entirety of the syntax, but this has other consequences

Boris Motik: you can reify and encode and thus retain the entirety of the syntax, but this has other consequences

18:25:54 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

18:25:57 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

18:26:12 <sandro> scribe: peter
18:26:19 <pfps> alan: I don't understand the issues

Alan Ruttenberg: I don't understand the issues

18:26:32 <pfps> alan: I was surprised with the situation in 1.0

Alan Ruttenberg: I was surprised with the situation in 1.0

18:26:57 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:27:00 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

18:27:04 <IanH> ack alanr

Ian Horrocks: ack alanr

18:27:08 <pfps> alan: entailment is a separate issue - it may not be accomplishable

Alan Ruttenberg: entailment is a separate issue - it may not be accomplishable

18:27:23 <uli> q+

Scribe problem: the name 'uli' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'uli' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown uli: q+

18:27:31 <pfps> alan: the RDF serialization should retain all of OWL

Alan Ruttenberg: the RDF serialization should retain all of OWL

18:27:34 <pfps> q+

q+

18:27:38 <sandro> chair: ian
18:28:02 <Rinke> what do you lose when you translate back?

Rinke Hoekstra: what do you lose when you translate back?

18:28:04 <uli> Alan, what is "the same"

Scribe problem: the name 'uli' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'uli' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown uli: Alan, what is "the same"

18:28:10 <Rinke> exactly

Rinke Hoekstra: exactly

18:28:14 <uli> example?

Scribe problem: the name 'uli' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'uli' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown uli: example?

18:28:21 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

18:28:21 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

18:28:23 <pfps> ian: peter said that everything in OWL 1.0 is serializable into RDF

Ian Horrocks: peter said that everything in OWL 1.0 is serializable into RDF

18:28:26 <m_schnei> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

18:28:34 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:28:35 <uli> q-

Scribe problem: the name 'uli' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'uli' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown uli: q-

18:28:39 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:28:40 <pfps> alan: but the meaning may be changed - e.g., punning

Alan Ruttenberg: but the meaning may be changed - e.g., punning

18:28:57 <pfps> alan: with punning being more important this is now important

Alan Ruttenberg: with punning being more important this is now important

18:28:58 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

18:29:08 <pfps> q-

q-

18:29:25 <pfps> boris: do you care about the semantics or not?

Boris Motik: do you care about the semantics or not?

18:30:05 <pfps> boris: do you want syntactic equivalence, semantic equivalence, or what?

Boris Motik: do you want syntactic equivalence, semantic equivalence, or what?

18:30:18 <uli> Alan, can you clarify in an email?

Scribe problem: the name 'uli' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'uli' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown uli: Alan, can you clarify in an email?

18:30:32 <pfps> alan: want roundtripping (modulo ordering that doesn't matter)

Alan Ruttenberg: want roundtripping (modulo ordering that doesn't matter)

18:30:32 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:30:40 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

18:30:44 <DougL> (non on the queue but if I were I would say: "same" means same consequences (entailments)).

Doug Lenat: (non on the queue but if I were I would say: "same" means same consequences (entailments)).

18:30:50 <m_schnei> q-

Michael Schneider: q-

18:30:51 <alanr> uli - did you read the email already sent?

Alan Ruttenberg: uli - did you read the email already sent?

18:30:52 <pfps> boris: situation in 1.1 allows roundtripping

Boris Motik: situation in 1.1 allows roundtripping

18:31:08 <alanr> I thought it was clarified

Alan Ruttenberg: I thought it was clarified

18:31:30 <alanr> Boris, I understand this view -  I want the decision to be all of ours

Alan Ruttenberg: Boris, I understand this view - I want the decision to be all of ours

18:31:31 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

18:31:31 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

18:31:33 <pfps> boris: I would prefer to sacrifice RDF compatability instead of limiting OWL

Boris Motik: I would prefer to sacrifice RDF compatability instead of limiting OWL

18:31:40 <sandro> bmotik: I'd much rather sacrifice RDF syntax than throw out nice features, like negative axioms

Boris Motik: I'd much rather sacrifice RDF syntax than throw out nice features, like negative axioms [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

18:31:43 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:31:48 <uli> alan - yes, but i still didn't understand your requirements, sorry

Scribe problem: the name 'uli' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'uli' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown uli: alan - yes, but i still didn't understand your requirements, sorry

18:31:53 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:32:08 <DougL> good idea

Doug Lenat: good idea

18:32:22 <pfps> ian: more time on this issue next week

Ian Horrocks: more time on this issue next week

18:32:35 <pfps> ian: other issues

Ian Horrocks: other issues

18:32:42 <pfps> ian: done

Ian Horrocks: done

18:32:43 <Zakim> -DougL

Zakim IRC Bot: -DougL

18:32:44 <sandro> Meeting record is at: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.03.19/Minutes

Sandro Hawke: Meeting record is at: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.03.19/Minutes

18:32:46 <Zakim> -baojie

Zakim IRC Bot: -baojie

18:32:46 <Rinke> thanks, bye

Rinke Hoekstra: thanks, bye

18:32:47 <Zakim> -msmith

Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith

18:32:48 <Carsten> bye

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Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: bye

18:32:49 <Zakim> -Achille

Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille

18:32:51 <Zhe> bye

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Scribe problem: the name 'Zhe' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Zhe: bye

18:32:54 <uli> alan, me too

Scribe problem: the name 'uli' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'uli' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bernardo Cuenca Grau Michael Smith Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Jie Bao Evan Wallace Doug Lenat Michael Schneider Alan Ruttenberg Ivan Herman Peter Patel-Schneider Achille Fokoue Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown uli: alan, me too

18:32:55 <Zakim> -Carsten

Zakim IRC Bot: -Carsten

18:32:56 <Zakim> -Alan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Alan

18:32:56 <Zakim> -Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe

18:32:58 <baojie> bye

Jie Bao: bye

18:32:58 <Zakim> -bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik

18:32:58 <Zakim> -Rinke

Zakim IRC Bot: -Rinke

18:33:00 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

18:33:02 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

18:33:06 <Zakim> -bcuencagrau

Zakim IRC Bot: -bcuencagrau

18:33:29 <Zakim> -m_schnei

Zakim IRC Bot: -m_schnei

18:33:33 <Zakim> -uli

Zakim IRC Bot: -uli

18:34:18 <Zakim> -Peter_Patel-Schneider

Zakim IRC Bot: -Peter_Patel-Schneider

18:34:20 <Zakim> -IanH

Zakim IRC Bot: -IanH

18:34:22 <Zakim> SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended

18:34:24 <Zakim> Attendees were bcuencagrau, +1.202.408.aaaa, msmith, +0186527aabb, +31.20.525.aacc, IanH, bmotik, Rinke, Sandro, +1.518.276.aadd, Evan_Wallace, +1.512.342.aaee, DougL, baojie,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were bcuencagrau, +1.202.408.aaaa, msmith, +0186527aabb, +31.20.525.aacc, IanH, bmotik, Rinke, Sandro, +1.518.276.aadd, Evan_Wallace, +1.512.342.aaee, DougL, baojie,

18:34:26 <Zakim> ... m_schnei, Alan, Ivan, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Achille, +49.351.463.3.aaff, Carsten, uli, Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: ... m_schnei, Alan, Ivan, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Achille, +49.351.463.3.aaff, Carsten, uli, Zhe

18:35:35 <sandro> RRSAgent, make log public

Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, make log public



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