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16:59:26 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-owl-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-owl-irc ←
16:59:37 <Zakim> -??P7
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P7 ←
17:00:07 <Zakim> -??P5
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P5 ←
17:00:11 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.276.aaaa ←
17:00:20 <Zakim> +Rinke
Zakim IRC Bot: +Rinke ←
17:00:23 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider
Zakim IRC Bot: +Peter_Patel-Schneider ←
17:00:32 <achille> Zakim, IBM is achille
Achille Fokoue: Zakim, IBM is achille ←
17:00:32 <Zakim> +achille; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +achille; got it ←
17:00:46 <pfps> zakim, this will be OWL
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, this will be OWL ←
17:00:46 <Zakim> ok, pfps, I see SW_OWL()12:00PM already started
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, pfps, I see SW_OWL()12:00PM already started ←
17:01:13 <achille> ScribeNick: achille
(Scribe set to Achille Fokoue)
17:01:23 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
17:01:26 <Zakim> +??P11
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11 ←
17:01:33 <bijan> zakim, ??p11 is me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, ??p11 is me ←
17:01:33 <Zakim> +bijan; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan; got it ←
17:01:34 <Zakim> +??P12
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12 ←
17:01:38 <bmotik> Zakim, ??p12 is me
Boris Motik: Zakim, ??p12 is me ←
17:01:38 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it ←
17:01:38 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:01:39 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:01:44 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:01:44 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:01:49 <Zakim> +??P14
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14 ←
17:02:00 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, ??P14 is me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, ??P14 is me ←
17:02:00 <Zakim> +bcuencagrau; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bcuencagrau; got it ←
17:02:02 <Zakim> +Alan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Alan ←
17:02:56 <Zakim> +MartinD
Zakim IRC Bot: +MartinD ←
17:03:06 <MartinD> zakim, mute me
Martin Dzbor: zakim, mute me ←
17:03:06 <Zakim> MartinD should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MartinD should now be muted ←
17:03:50 <achille> Alan: Agenda amendment?
Alan Ruttenberg: Agenda amendment? ←
17:03:52 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
17:03:52 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
17:03:53 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
17:04:08 <Zakim> +??P16
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P16 ←
17:04:10 <Zakim> + +49.351.463.3.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +49.351.463.3.aabb ←
17:04:17 <Carsten> zakim, aabb is me
Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Carsten: zakim, aabb is me ←
17:04:17 <Zakim> +Carsten; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Carsten; got it ←
17:04:21 <Carsten> zakim, mute me
Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Carsten: zakim, mute me ←
17:04:21 <Zakim> Carsten should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Carsten should now be muted ←
17:04:27 <m_schnei> zakim, ??P16 is me
Michael Schneider: zakim, ??P16 is me ←
17:04:27 <Zakim> +m_schnei; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +m_schnei; got it ←
17:04:31 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
17:04:31 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted ←
17:04:48 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, mute me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me ←
17:04:48 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should now be muted ←
17:04:57 <alanr> zakim, who is here?
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here? ←
17:04:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see achille, DougL, msmith, +1.518.276.aaaa, Rinke, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Sandro, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), Alan, MartinD (muted), Ivan,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see achille, DougL, msmith, +1.518.276.aaaa, Rinke, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Sandro, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), Alan, MartinD (muted), Ivan, ←
17:05:00 <Zakim> ... m_schnei (muted), Carsten (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: ... m_schnei (muted), Carsten (muted) ←
17:05:01 <Zakim> On IRC I see Carsten, m_schnei, alanr, bmotik, ivan, MartinD, RRSAgent, Zakim, DougL, msmith, bijan, bcuencagrau, achille, Rinke, pfps, sandro, trackbot-ng
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Carsten, m_schnei, alanr, bmotik, ivan, MartinD, RRSAgent, Zakim, DougL, msmith, bijan, bcuencagrau, achille, Rinke, pfps, sandro, trackbot-ng ←
17:05:29 <achille> Alan: no agenda amendments
Alan Ruttenberg: no agenda amendments ←
17:05:54 <achille> PROPOSED: accept previous minutes
PROPOSED: accept previous minutes ←
17:05:55 <pfps> minutes are *minimally* acceptable
Peter Patel-Schneider: minutes are *minimally* acceptable ←
17:06:02 <DougL> +1
Doug Lenat: +1 ←
17:06:03 <msmith> +1 to previous minutes
Michael Smith: +1 to previous minutes ←
17:06:05 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
17:06:09 <m_schnei> +1 to previous minutes
Michael Schneider: +1 to previous minutes ←
17:07:01 <achille> RESOLVED: previous minutes accepted
RESOLVED: previous minutes accepted ←
17:07:16 <Zakim> +??P18
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P18 ←
17:07:27 <achille> Topic: Registration fees and signup f2f
17:07:41 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?
Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, pointer? ←
17:07:41 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-owl-irc#T17-07-41
RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-owl-irc#T17-07-41 ←
17:07:45 <Ratnesh> zakim, ??P18 is me
Ratnesh Sahay: zakim, ??P18 is me ←
17:07:46 <Zakim> +Ratnesh; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ratnesh; got it ←
17:08:15 <achille> pfps: please register as soon as possible for the next f2f
Peter Patel-Schneider: please register as soon as possible for the next f2f ←
17:08:48 <achille> alan: unless it is too many, it is fine to have few observers
Alan Ruttenberg: unless there are too many, it is fine to have few observers ←
17:09:14 <achille> s/it is too/ there are too
17:09:32 <pfps> sign up for F2F is http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/F2F2_People
Peter Patel-Schneider: sign up for F2F is http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/F2F2_People ←
17:09:44 <achille> topic: Action item status
17:09:47 <Zakim> +Deb_McGuinness
Zakim IRC Bot: +Deb_McGuinness ←
17:09:55 <pfps> F2F local arrangements page is http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/F2F2_Local_Arrangements
Peter Patel-Schneider: F2F local arrangements page is http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/F2F2_Local_Arrangements ←
17:10:04 <achille> alan: Michael has started working on the OWL Full semantics
Alan Ruttenberg: Michael has started working on the OWL Full semantics ←
17:10:06 <m_schnei> q+ to full
Michael Schneider: q+ to full ←
17:10:12 <achille> ... feedback welcome
... feedback welcome ←
17:10:48 <achille> PROPOSED: Action 97 completed
PROPOSED: ACTION-97 completed ←
17:10:55 <sandro> Zakim, who is on the call?
Sandro Hawke: Zakim, who is on the call? ←
17:10:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see achille, DougL, msmith, +1.518.276.aaaa, Rinke, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Sandro, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), Alan, MartinD (muted), Ivan,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see achille, DougL, msmith, +1.518.276.aaaa, Rinke, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Sandro, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), Alan, MartinD (muted), Ivan, ←
17:10:56 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
17:10:57 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:10:58 <Zakim> ... m_schnei (muted), Carsten (muted), Ratnesh, Deb_McGuinness
Zakim IRC Bot: ... m_schnei (muted), Carsten (muted), Ratnesh, Deb_McGuinness ←
17:10:59 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted ←
17:11:05 <alanr> ack m_schnei
Alan Ruttenberg: ack m_schnei ←
17:11:05 <Zakim> m_schnei, you wanted to full
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei, you wanted to full ←
17:11:32 <alanr> zakim, who is here?
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here? ←
17:11:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see achille, DougL, msmith, +1.518.276.aaaa, Rinke, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Sandro, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), Alan, MartinD (muted), Ivan,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see achille, DougL, msmith, +1.518.276.aaaa, Rinke, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Sandro, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), Alan, MartinD (muted), Ivan, ←
17:11:35 <Zakim> ... m_schnei, Carsten (muted), Ratnesh, Deb_McGuinness
Zakim IRC Bot: ... m_schnei, Carsten (muted), Ratnesh, Deb_McGuinness ←
17:11:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see dlm, sandro, Ratnesh, Carsten, m_schnei, alanr, bmotik, ivan, MartinD, RRSAgent, Zakim, DougL, msmith, bijan, bcuencagrau, achille, Rinke, pfps, trackbot-ng
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see dlm, sandro, Ratnesh, Carsten, m_schnei, alanr, bmotik, ivan, MartinD, RRSAgent, Zakim, DougL, msmith, bijan, bcuencagrau, achille, Rinke, pfps, trackbot-ng ←
17:11:46 <sandro> dlm, we have an unidentified RPI person on the call (not you). Any clues?
Sandro Hawke: dlm, we have an unidentified RPI person on the call (not you). Any clues? ←
17:11:55 <dlm> Just joined - Deborah McGuinness - i tried to find the minutes from the last user facing documents meeting and failed. is that posted?
Deborah McGuinness: Just joined - Deborah McGuinness - i tried to find the minutes from the last user facing documents meeting and failed. is that posted? ←
17:12:06 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
17:12:06 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted ←
17:12:06 <achille> michael: I don't want to force anyone to look at the OWL Full Semantics at this point
Scribe problem: the name 'michael' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Michael Smith Michael Schneider Michael Sintek . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown michael: I don't want to force anyone to look at the OWL Full Semantics at this point ←
17:12:11 <dlm> I am calling from 650 but jie bao is a new member and he is calling in
Deborah McGuinness: I am calling from 650 but jie bao is a new member and he is calling in ←
17:12:50 <achille> Topic: Due and overdue actions
17:13:20 <achille> Alan: 3 of Jeremy's Actions, who is not here today and 2 are alan's
Alan Ruttenberg: 3 of Jeremy's Actions, who is not here today and 2 are alan's ←
17:13:32 <achille> ... so there will still be pending
... so there will still be pending ←
17:13:41 <achille> topic: raised issues
17:14:02 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
17:14:02 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted ←
17:14:05 <pfps> q+ to say that there is no inconsistency
Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to say that there is no inconsistency ←
17:14:06 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:14:09 <achille> alan: issue 96
17:14:21 <achille> michael: already some discussions on it
Scribe problem: the name 'michael' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Michael Smith Michael Schneider Michael Sintek . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown michael: already some discussions on it ←
17:14:26 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
17:14:26 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to say that there is no inconsistency
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps, you wanted to say that there is no inconsistency ←
17:14:30 <achille> ... now only editorial issues only
... now only editorial issues only ←
17:14:31 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
17:14:31 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted ←
17:14:57 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
17:14:57 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted ←
17:14:57 <achille> alan: is issue 96 an valid issue?
Alan Ruttenberg: is ISSUE-96 an valid issue? ←
17:15:08 <achille> pfps: it is not an issue
Peter Patel-Schneider: it is not an issue ←
17:15:17 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
17:15:17 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted ←
17:15:20 <Rinke> I don't think there is an issue, but if michael thinks there is, then that's an issue
Rinke Hoekstra: I don't think there is an issue, but if michael thinks there is, then that's an issue ←
17:15:30 <pfps> -1
17:15:33 <bmotik> -0
Boris Motik: -0 ←
17:15:34 <achille> Should issue 96 be accepted?
Should ISSUE-96 be accepted? ←
17:15:36 <m_schnei> +1
Michael Schneider: +1 ←
17:15:39 <achille> 0
0 ←
17:15:39 <Rinke> 0
Rinke Hoekstra: 0 ←
17:15:42 <ivan> 0
Ivan Herman: 0 ←
17:15:44 <Carsten> -0
Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Carsten: -0 ←
17:15:46 <msmith> +0.1 on accept, it is a minor issue in RDF, but would change serialization for cosmetic reason (some tools already use the syntax)
Michael Smith: +0.1 on accept, it is a minor issue in RDF, but would change serialization for cosmetic reason (some tools already use the syntax) ←
17:15:49 <DougL> 0
Doug Lenat: 0 ←
17:15:55 <bcuencagrau> 0
17:16:02 <bijan> 0
Bijan Parsia: 0 ←
17:16:05 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
17:16:19 <DougL> (not a lot of strong sentiment on this one)
Doug Lenat: (not a lot of strong sentiment on this one) ←
17:16:36 <achille> alan: I'll talk to Ian about it. I tend to accept it tough
Alan Ruttenberg: I'll talk to Ian about it. I tend to accept it tough ←
17:16:45 <bijan> Is it subsumable in other issues with RDF mapping? I'd rather all such issues were clustered
Bijan Parsia: Is it subsumable in other issues with RDF mapping? I'd rather all such issues were clustered ←
17:16:47 <achille> alan: Issue 100
17:17:07 <achille> alan: it is not about last week discussion on RDF/XML serialization
Alan Ruttenberg: it is not about last week discussion on RDF/XML serialization ←
17:17:24 <achille> ... it came up on discussion related to punning with Boris
... it came up on discussion related to punning with Boris ←
17:17:33 <bijan> Examples?
Bijan Parsia: Examples? ←
17:17:47 <m_schnei> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
17:17:48 <bijan> ah
Bijan Parsia: ah ←
17:17:55 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
17:17:55 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted ←
17:17:59 <alanr> ack m_schnei
Alan Ruttenberg: ack m_schnei ←
17:18:04 <achille> ... In OWL 1.1 there seems to be ontologies that cannot be coverted to RDF
... In OWL 1.1 there seems to be ontologies that cannot be coverted to RDF ←
17:18:30 <bijan> q+ to ask a question
Bijan Parsia: q+ to ask a question ←
17:19:07 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
17:19:07 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted ←
17:19:09 <alanr> ack bijan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan ←
17:19:10 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to ask a question
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to ask a question ←
17:19:11 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:19:13 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan ←
17:19:37 <achille> bijan: is it that it cannot be serialized or is just not serializable in OWL DL?
Bijan Parsia: is it that it cannot be serialized or is just not serializable in OWL DL? ←
17:20:22 <achille> bijan: let's not decide in abstract but rather on a case by case basis
Bijan Parsia: let's not decide in abstract but rather on a case by case basis ←
17:20:29 <msmith> -1 to accept issue 100 b/c drawing abstract lines in the sand doesn't seem necessary at this point
Michael Smith: -1 to accept ISSUE-100 b/c drawing abstract lines in the sand doesn't seem necessary at this point ←
17:20:36 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:20:36 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:20:39 <bijan> -1
Bijan Parsia: -1 ←
17:20:42 <bmotik> -1 (i.e., I think we should *not* consider this issue; rather, we should reject it)
Boris Motik: -1 (i.e., I think we should *not* consider this issue; rather, we should reject it) ←
17:20:56 <m_schnei> there *are* owl-1.0-dl ontologies, which are *not* expressible in rdf (I *don't* talk about rdf/xml!)
Michael Schneider: there *are* owl-1.0-dl ontologies, which are *not* expressible in rdf (I *don't* talk about rdf/xml!) ←
17:21:38 <dlm> sorry - i am not sure of the definition of a non-separated vocabulary
Deborah McGuinness: sorry - i am not sure of the definition of a non-separated vocabulary ←
17:21:46 <Rinke> me neither
Rinke Hoekstra: me neither ←
17:21:56 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
17:21:56 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted ←
17:22:02 <achille> pfps: I will have to look carefully to find if it is really a pb
Peter Patel-Schneider: I will have to look carefully to find if it is really a pb ←
17:22:09 <ivan> I think it should be accepted
Ivan Herman: I think it should be accepted ←
17:22:10 <bijan> separated vocabulary means e.g., no class is an instance
Bijan Parsia: separated vocabulary means e.g., no class is an instance ←
17:22:14 <pfps> -1 to accepting, as it is too general
Peter Patel-Schneider: -1 to accepting, as it is too general ←
17:22:15 <sandro> PROPOSE: accept this issue
Scribe problem: the name 'PROPOSE' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown PROPOSE: accept this issue [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:22:23 <achille> Action: Peter to look more carefully at the problem
ACTION: Peter to look more carefully at the problem ←
17:22:23 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Peter
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Peter ←
17:22:23 <trackbot-ng> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ppatelsc, phaase)
Trackbot IRC Bot: Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ppatelsc, phaase) ←
17:22:24 <dlm> ah - thx.
Deborah McGuinness: ah - thx. ←
17:22:27 <bijan> non-separated vocbualry means that there is some term that is used in more than one syntactic category
Bijan Parsia: non-separated vocbualry means that there is some term that is used in more than one syntactic category ←
17:22:45 <achille> michael: it should be accepted
michael: it should be accepted ←
17:22:58 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:23:08 <sandro> achille, I don't think the chair has agreed to this action.
Sandro Hawke: achille, I don't think the chair has agreed to this action. ←
17:23:09 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:23:09 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
17:23:15 <alanr> ack bijan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan ←
17:23:24 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
17:23:24 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted ←
17:23:30 <Rinke> -1 think that case-by-case is probably the best way to deal with this "issue"
Rinke Hoekstra: -1 think that case-by-case is probably the best way to deal with this "issue" ←
17:23:32 <achille> ACTION: pfps to look more carefully at issue 100
ACTION: pfps to look more carefully at ISSUE-100 ←
17:23:32 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - pfps
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - pfps ←
17:24:03 <bmotik> +1 to bijan
Boris Motik: +1 to bijan ←
17:24:13 <achille> ACTION: Peter to look more carefully at issue 100
ACTION: Peter to look more carefully at ISSUE-100 ←
17:24:13 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Peter
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Peter ←
17:24:13 <trackbot-ng> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ppatelsc, phaase)
Trackbot IRC Bot: Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ppatelsc, phaase) ←
17:24:29 <achille> alan: I would accept it for discussion
Alan Ruttenberg: I would accept it for discussion ←
17:24:45 <bmotik> Four people voted against accepting the issue; why should we accept it? Nobody voted for it!
Boris Motik: Four people voted against accepting the issue; why should we accept it? Nobody voted for it! ←
17:24:51 <achille> alan: there is no concensus. So we will accept it
Alan Ruttenberg: there is no concensus. So we will accept it ←
17:25:04 <bmotik> Who is in favor of accepting this issue?
Boris Motik: Who is in favor of accepting this issue? ←
17:25:24 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:25:24 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:25:31 <bijan> None of those votes were registered qua votes
Bijan Parsia: None of those votes were registered qua votes ←
17:25:35 <bmotik> OK, I was looking for +1s.
Boris Motik: OK, I was looking for +1s. ←
17:25:36 <achille> alan: Ivan, michael and alan want to accept it
Alan Ruttenberg: Ivan, michael and alan want to accept it ←
17:25:47 <msmith> to bmotik, ivan, m_schneider, alanr were for
Michael Smith: to bmotik, ivan, m_schneider, alanr were for ←
17:25:48 <achille> alan: issue 101
17:26:10 <pfps> q+ to say that this is a bug and the fix is trivial
Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to say that this is a bug and the fix is trivial ←
17:26:15 <bmotik> Michael, I was not for accepting the issue; I was for rejecting it.
Boris Motik: Michael, I was not for accepting the issue; I was for rejecting it. ←
17:26:18 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
17:26:18 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to say that this is a bug and the fix is trivial
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps, you wanted to say that this is a bug and the fix is trivial ←
17:26:31 <msmith> covered by statement in semantics doc, b/c such literals are "well formed constants from NV"
Michael Smith: covered by statement in semantics doc, b/c such literals are "well formed constants from NV" ←
17:26:32 <msmith> These datatypes, as well as the well-formed constants from NV, are interpreted as specified in [XML Schema Datatypes].
Michael Smith: These datatypes, as well as the well-formed constants from NV, are interpreted as specified in [XML Schema Datatypes]. ←
17:26:41 <m_schnei> meta - what exactly has to happen in order to reject a raised issue? I would say that it should be *strongly* rejected (many -1)
Michael Schneider: meta - what exactly has to happen in order to reject a raised issue? I would say that it should be *strongly* rejected (many -1) ←
17:26:42 <msmith> q+ to respond not a bug
Michael Smith: q+ to respond not a bug ←
17:26:43 <Rinke> +1 to editorial
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 to editorial ←
17:26:50 <bijan> +1 to editorial
Bijan Parsia: +1 to editorial ←
17:26:50 <achille> pfps: it is just a bug. I will fix it
Peter Patel-Schneider: it is just a bug. I will fix it ←
17:26:59 <achille> alan: accept the issue as editorial
Alan Ruttenberg: accept the issue as editorial ←
17:28:12 <achille> alan: issue 102
17:28:39 <achille> alan: what happen with annotation on annotation property
Alan Ruttenberg: what happen to annotation on annotation property ←
17:28:47 <achille> s/with/to
17:29:03 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:29:07 <pfps> q+ to argue that this is also a bug (but Boris may not agree) and the fix is easy
Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to argue that this is also a bug (but Boris may not agree) and the fix is easy ←
17:29:09 <msmith> q-
Michael Smith: q- ←
17:29:10 <achille> alan: Should it be accepted?
Alan Ruttenberg: Should it be accepted? ←
17:29:10 <alanr> ack msmith
Alan Ruttenberg: ack msmith ←
17:29:11 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:29:12 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:29:13 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
17:29:53 <msmith> i.e., you can't create an annotation property without using it in an annotation
Michael Smith: i.e., you can't create an annotation property without using it in an annotation ←
17:29:54 <achille> bmotik: the source of the problem is that annotation properties are not entities
Boris Motik: the source of the problem is that annotation properties are not entities ←
17:30:10 <achille> bmotik: I don't think we need a seperate issue for this
Boris Motik: I don't think we need a seperate issue for this ←
17:30:25 <achille> bmotik: reject this issue, but take in the comment
Boris Motik: reject this issue, but take in the comment ←
17:30:28 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
17:30:28 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to argue that this is also a bug (but Boris may not agree) and the fix is easy
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps, you wanted to argue that this is also a bug (but Boris may not agree) and the fix is easy ←
17:30:47 <achille> pfps: disagree with Boris
Peter Patel-Schneider: disagree with Boris ←
17:30:52 <bijan> +1 to peter
Bijan Parsia: +1 to peter ←
17:31:25 <achille> alan: to be decided on email
Alan Ruttenberg: to be decided on email ←
17:31:27 <dlm> +1 to any reasonable solution that allows annotations on annotations - it sounds like peters current solution does this
Deborah McGuinness: +1 to any reasonable solution that allows annotations on annotations - it sounds like peters current solution does this ←
17:31:38 <achille> alan: peter solution seems reasonable to me
Alan Ruttenberg: peter's solution seems reasonable to me ←
17:31:49 <achille> s/peter/peter's/
17:31:53 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:31:53 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:32:14 <achille> topic: General discussions
17:32:36 <achille> alan: formail vote to publish documents is needed
Alan Ruttenberg: formal vote to publish documents is needed ←
17:32:46 <achille> s/formail/formal
17:32:51 <dlm> do we have the minutes for the meeting with the primer discussion?
Deborah McGuinness: do we have the minutes for the meeting with the primer discussion? ←
17:33:27 <Carsten> +1 for some more reviewing time for fragments document
Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Carsten: +1 for some more reviewing time for fragments document ←
17:33:36 <achille> alan: on the fragments, it is not clear that it should be published by the next f2f
Alan Ruttenberg: on the fragments, it is not clear that it should be published by the next f2f ←
17:33:53 <achille> alan: reviewers needed for the documents
Alan Ruttenberg: reviewers needed for the documents ←
17:34:03 <achille> alan: let's start with the fragment documents
Alan Ruttenberg: let's start with the fragment documents ←
17:34:25 <achille> alan: distinction between must-have as opposed to it would be nice to have
Alan Ruttenberg: distinction between must-have as opposed to it would be nice to have ←
17:34:27 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:34:30 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:34:35 <bijan> ack bijan
Bijan Parsia: ack bijan ←
17:34:36 <alanr> ack bijan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan ←
17:35:06 <achille> bijan: should be published as it
Bijan Parsia: should be published as it ←
17:35:11 <bmotik> +1 to bijan
Boris Motik: +1 to bijan ←
17:35:15 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
17:35:15 <Zakim> m_schnei was already muted, m_schnei
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei was already muted, m_schnei ←
17:35:18 <achille> ... i don't see any showstopper
... i don't see any showstopper ←
17:35:47 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
17:35:50 <bcuencagrau> +1 as well (not surprisingly)
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1 as well (not surprisingly) ←
17:35:51 <achille> alan: the naming of the fragments is still open issue
Alan Ruttenberg: the naming of the fragments is still open issue ←
17:36:18 <achille> ivan: there is nothing wrong to ask explicit questions in the documents
Ivan Herman: there is nothing wrong to ask explicit questions in the documents ←
17:36:23 <bijan> I have no problem with including such questions, I jsut don't think they are showstoppers
Bijan Parsia: I have no problem with including such questions, I jsut don't think they are showstoppers ←
17:36:40 <bijan> I think they are a good idea
Bijan Parsia: I think they are a good idea ←
17:36:46 <achille> ivan: it's ok to openly request feedback on open issues
Ivan Herman: it's ok to openly request feedback on open issues ←
17:36:57 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:36:57 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:37:10 <achille> -0.5
-0.5 ←
17:37:17 <sandro> STRAWPOLL: publish fragments document as is, asap
STRAWPOLL: publish fragments document as is, asap ←
17:38:07 <Rinke> achille: I feel like it has to be made more accessible. One point raised by Jim, there is an assumption that you are already familiar with the full vocabulary of OWL DL
Achille Fokoue: I feel like it has to be made more accessible. One point raised by Jim, there is an assumption that you are already familiar with the full vocabulary of OWL DL [ Scribe Assist by Rinke Hoekstra ] ←
17:38:17 <sandro> achille: although I think the document is well-written, I think it needs to be more accessible. The production rules assume you're already familiar with the full details of OWL DL. It will not really help get feedback from the people who are only interested in their one fragment.
Achille Fokoue: although I think the document is well-written, I think it needs to be more accessible. The production rules assume you're already familiar with the full details of OWL DL. It will not really help get feedback from the people who are only interested in their one fragment. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:38:20 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:38:23 <alanr> ack ivan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan ←
17:38:23 <ivan> ack ivan
Ivan Herman: ack ivan ←
17:38:25 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
17:38:51 <sandro> Alan: So, we should reference the appropriate semantics document?
Alan Ruttenberg: So, we should reference the appropriate semantics document? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:39:02 <bijan> How about an appendix with a complete grammar for each fragment
Bijan Parsia: How about an appendix with a complete grammar for each fragment ←
17:39:04 <msmith> q+ to respond to achille
Michael Smith: q+ to respond to achille ←
17:39:10 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
17:39:12 <sandro> Alan: Or are you suggesting the document should recapitulate the semantics?
Alan Ruttenberg: Or are you suggesting the document should recapitulate the semantics? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:39:43 <sandro> achille: My assumption is that people who might usefully review parts of the fragments document, might not be ready to understand all our documents.
Achille Fokoue: My assumption is that people who might usefully review parts of the fragments document, might not be ready to understand all our documents. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:39:46 <bmotik> Achille, this document is a specification for three fragments. IMHO it should not be a *guide* for three fragments.
Boris Motik: Achille, this document is a specification for three fragments. IMHO it should not be a *guide* for three fragments. ←
17:39:53 <sandro> +1 achille's point.
Sandro Hawke: +1 achille's point. ←
17:40:11 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
17:40:17 <bmotik> +q
Boris Motik: +q ←
17:40:18 <sandro> Alan: Achille, would you be willing to try to fix this?
Alan Ruttenberg: Achille, would you be willing to try to fix this? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:40:23 <bijan> Does having a complete grammar for each fragment move things at all to address this issue?
Bijan Parsia: Does having a complete grammar for each fragment move things at all to address this issue? ←
17:40:26 <bcuencagrau> I am with Boris: it is not intended to be a user-faced document
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: I am with Boris: it is not intended to be a user-faced document ←
17:40:55 <sandro> Alan: Could you do this in the next week, Achille?
Alan Ruttenberg: Could you do this in the next week, Achille? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:41:07 <sandro> achille: That would be difficult.
Achille Fokoue: That would be difficult. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:41:10 <bijan> Is this "nice to have" or "must have"?
Bijan Parsia: Is this "nice to have" or "must have"? ←
17:41:23 <sandro> achille: end of next week.
Achille Fokoue: end of next week. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:41:33 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:41:48 <alanr> ack msmith
Alan Ruttenberg: ack msmith ←
17:41:48 <Zakim> msmith, you wanted to respond to achille
Zakim IRC Bot: msmith, you wanted to respond to achille ←
17:41:51 <sandro> achille: What I'd like is for this fragments document to be as self-contained as possible.
Achille Fokoue: What I'd like is for this fragments document to be as self-contained as possible. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:42:39 <alanr> ack ivan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan ←
17:43:24 <achille> michael, ivan: we can publish want we want now, and make them self contained later
michael, ivan: we can publish want we want now, and make them self contained later ←
17:43:24 <m_schnei> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
17:43:26 <achille> +q
+q ←
17:43:28 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:43:28 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:43:31 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
17:44:42 <bijan> ack bijan
Bijan Parsia: ack bijan ←
17:44:44 <sandro> Not tutorial, Boris -- Just written in the jargon of the dialect, instead of your jargon.
Sandro Hawke: Not tutorial, Boris -- Just written in the jargon of the dialect, instead of your jargon. ←
17:44:46 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:44:46 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:44:46 <alanr> ack bijan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan ←
17:44:51 <dlm> at one point, we discussed having a statement about a description of a class of users that each fragment is aimed at
Deborah McGuinness: at one point, we discussed having a statement about a description of a class of users that each fragment is aimed at ←
17:45:17 <achille> bijan: how about an appendix?
Bijan Parsia: how about an appendix? ←
17:45:29 <alanr> action: Peter to check whether all OWL 1.0 ontologies are representable in RDF
ACTION: Peter to check whether all OWL 1.0 ontologies are representable in RDF ←
17:45:29 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Peter
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Peter ←
17:45:29 <trackbot-ng> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ppatelsc, phaase)
Trackbot IRC Bot: Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ppatelsc, phaase) ←
17:45:37 <alanr> action: pfps to check whether all OWL 1.0 ontologies are representable in RDF
ACTION: pfps to check whether all OWL 1.0 ontologies are representable in RDF ←
17:45:37 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - pfps
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - pfps ←
17:45:43 <achille> bijan: some example ontologies might also be useful
Bijan Parsia: some example ontologies might also be useful ←
17:45:58 <alanr> action: Patel to check whether all OWL 1.0 ontologies are representable in RDF
ACTION: Patel to check whether all OWL 1.0 ontologies are representable in RDF ←
17:45:58 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - Patel
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - Patel ←
17:45:58 <bmotik> action: patelschneider to check whether all OWL 1.0 ontologies are representable in RDF
ACTION: patelschneider to check whether all OWL 1.0 ontologies are representable in RDF ←
17:45:58 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - patelschneider
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - patelschneider ←
17:46:05 <achille> bijan: maybe a little more about the design
Bijan Parsia: maybe a little more about the design ←
17:46:15 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
17:46:15 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted ←
17:46:17 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:46:18 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:46:18 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:46:22 <alanr> ack m_schnei
Alan Ruttenberg: ack m_schnei ←
17:46:36 <alanr> action: ppatelsc to check whether all OWL 1.0 ontologies are representable in RDF
ACTION: ppatelsc to check whether all OWL 1.0 ontologies are representable in RDF ←
17:46:37 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-103 - Check whether all OWL 1.0 ontologies are representable in RDF [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2008-03-19].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-103 - Check whether all OWL 1.0 ontologies are representable in RDF [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2008-03-19]. ←
17:46:59 <achille> michael: it has not been published since the recent important changes
Scribe problem: the name 'michael' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Michael Smith Michael Schneider Michael Sintek . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown michael: it has not been published since the recent important changes ←
17:47:05 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
17:47:05 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted ←
17:47:08 <alanr> ack achille
Alan Ruttenberg: ack achille ←
17:47:11 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:48:18 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:48:32 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
17:49:02 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:49:02 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:49:17 <dlm> +q
Deborah McGuinness: +q ←
17:49:22 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
17:49:47 <achille> +q
+q ←
17:50:09 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
17:50:14 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:50:14 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:51:09 <sandro> Alan: There are a number of reasons why we make fragments. I don't think we can say from here what people should be looking for in fragments. I think the sentiment is toward publishing it.
Alan Ruttenberg: There are a number of reasons why we make fragments. I don't think we can say from here what people should be looking for in fragments. I think the sentiment is toward publishing it. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:51:09 <bijan> I think boris's overstates...there are many possible fragments with good comptuational properties (e.g., FL family) which are expressively horrid and thus aren't proposed
Bijan Parsia: I think boris's overstates...there are many possible fragments with good comptuational properties (e.g., FL family) which are expressively horrid and thus aren't proposed ←
17:51:39 <sandro> Alan: I think Achille should go ahead and draft what he has in mind.
Alan Ruttenberg: I think Achille should go ahead and draft what he has in mind. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:51:45 <alanr> ack deb
Alan Ruttenberg: ack deb ←
17:51:48 <alanr> ack dlm
Alan Ruttenberg: ack dlm ←
17:51:54 <achille> Action: achille start editing the document by the end of next week
ACTION: achille start editing the document by the end of next week ←
17:51:54 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-104 - Start editing the document by the end of next week [on Achille Fokoue - due 2008-03-19].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-104 - Start editing the document by the end of next week [on Achille Fokoue - due 2008-03-19]. ←
17:52:19 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:52:39 <achille> q-
q- ←
17:52:59 <alanr> ack achille
Alan Ruttenberg: ack achille ←
17:53:03 <sandro> Deb: While some fragments are computation-oriented, some are not. Some populations which are not DL-literate could benefit from the fragments document. It would be nice if, reading the document, you could see which audience each fragment is aimed at -- and Bijan's idea of identifying which KBs are in which fragments.
Deborah McGuinness: While some fragments are computation-oriented, some are not. Some populations which are not DL-literate could benefit from the fragments document. It would be nice if, reading the document, you could see which audience each fragment is aimed at -- and Bijan's idea of identifying which KBs are in which fragments. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:53:21 <bijan> I'll note that there is also a fragment intro, then a feature overview...
Bijan Parsia: I'll note that there is also a fragment intro, then a feature overview... ←
17:53:29 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
17:53:32 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:53:32 <Zakim> bmotik was not muted, bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik was not muted, bmotik ←
17:53:58 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:53:58 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:54:40 <sandro> Alan: I don't hear any objections to Achille trying to trying to draft some changes.
Alan Ruttenberg: I don't hear any objections to Achille trying to trying to draft some changes. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:55:06 <achille> +q
+q ←
17:55:09 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:56:07 <sandro> Sandro: I don't see how to handle this without a branch
Sandro Hawke: I don't see how to handle this without a branch [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:56:17 <alanr> ack achille
Alan Ruttenberg: ack achille ←
17:56:23 <sandro> Alan: Achille's changes ARE targetted for this publication round.
Alan Ruttenberg: Achille's changes ARE targetted for this publication round. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:56:30 <alanr> all versions are in the wiki
Alan Ruttenberg: all versions are in the wiki ←
17:57:32 <sandro> Achille: I want people to be able to read the section on a fragment and understand what it's about, without understanding the rest of OWL.
Achille Fokoue: I want people to be able to read the section on a fragment and understand what it's about, without understanding the rest of OWL. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:57:36 <sandro> +1 to that goal.
Sandro Hawke: +1 to that goal. ←
17:58:17 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:58:21 <sandro> Alan: Achille, I'm comfortable with you editing the document in that direction, with the edits being reviewed in 10 days. Alternatively, we can publish more like what we have now, and let your edits wait.
Alan Ruttenberg: Achille, I'm comfortable with you editing the document in that direction, with the edits being reviewed in 10 days. Alternatively, we can publish more like what we have now, and let your edits wait. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:59:03 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
17:59:03 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:59:06 <Zakim> bmotik was not muted, bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik was not muted, bmotik ←
17:59:15 <sandro> Achille: In that case, I will try. But my schedule is very tight, so I might not make it. So I'm going to try the edits on a copied wiki page, in case they do not get done.
Achille Fokoue: In that case, I will try. But my schedule is very tight, so I might not make it. So I'm going to try the edits on a copied wiki page, in case they do not get done. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:59:20 <sandro> Sandro: okay./
Sandro Hawke: okay./ [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:59:36 <alanr> ack bijan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan ←
18:00:03 <sandro> Boris: Sometimes you want to make a speculative change to a document. I am in favor of making such copy-and-modify documents often.
Boris Motik: Sometimes you want to make a speculative change to a document. I am in favor of making such copy-and-modify documents often. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:00:14 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
18:00:14 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
18:00:15 <achille> +1 for boris
+1 for boris ←
18:00:42 <achille> bijan: we agree that the current design is ok for publication
Bijan Parsia: we agree that the current design is ok for publication ←
18:00:48 <sandro> Bijan: It seems like we agree that the current design is okay for publishing; the concerns have been editorial.
Bijan Parsia: It seems like we agree that the current design is okay for publishing; the concerns have been editorial. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:01:09 <sandro> Bijan: I suggest we publish the current draft, pretty much as-is, and note that we are working on the editorial reason.
Bijan Parsia: I suggest we publish the current draft, pretty much as-is, and note that we are working on the editorial reason. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:01:18 <achille> alan: next week a formal vote on publication
Alan Ruttenberg: next week a formal vote on publication ←
18:01:27 <sandro> Alan: more or less. next week we'll vote on whether to publish.
Alan Ruttenberg: more or less. next week we'll vote on whether to publish. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:01:50 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
18:01:50 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
18:01:59 <dlm> where are we going to make the statement about planned updates?
Deborah McGuinness: where are we going to make the statement about planned updates? ←
18:02:02 <achille> alan: reviewrs will be needed
Alan Ruttenberg: reviewrs will be needed ←
18:02:12 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:02:20 <m_schnei> Question - is it possible to compare the differences between two *different* pages in the wiki? This would help when creating speculative copies to see the differences
Michael Schneider: Question - is it possible to compare the differences between two *different* pages in the wiki? This would help when creating speculative copies to see the differences ←
18:02:20 <achille> ... for the documents to publish
... for the documents to publish ←
18:02:58 <msmith> what is expected output from reviewer?
Michael Smith: what is expected output from reviewer? ←
18:03:00 <DougL> Willing to review primer
Doug Lenat: Willing to review primer ←
18:03:05 <Zakim> + +7.955.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +7.955.aacc ←
18:03:07 <achille> volunteers?
volunteers? ←
18:03:19 <dlm> repeating email offer to review primer
Deborah McGuinness: repeating email offer to review primer ←
18:03:33 <achille> sign me on for the fragment document
sign me on for the fragment document ←
18:04:53 <msmith> I will be a reviewer for any of the 3 documents. At present, I am most familiar with fragments.
Michael Smith: I will be a reviewer for any of the 3 documents. At present, I am most familiar with fragments. ←
18:05:05 <achille> ACTION: dm to review primer
ACTION: dm to review primer ←
18:05:05 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-105 - to review primer [on Deborah McGuinness - due 2008-03-19].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-105 - to review primer [on Deborah McGuinness - due 2008-03-19]. ←
18:05:16 <bijan> I'll review fragment or xml
Bijan Parsia: I'll review fragment or xml ←
18:05:24 <achille> sign me on for the XML doc
sign me on for the XML doc ←
18:05:49 <bijan> I'm happy to not review as well
Bijan Parsia: I'm happy to not review as well ←
18:05:56 <bijan> ?
Bijan Parsia: ? ←
18:05:57 <bijan> I am?
Bijan Parsia: I am? ←
18:06:02 <bijan> I've nothing to do with either
Bijan Parsia: I've nothing to do with either ←
18:06:05 <achille> ACTION: achille to review the XML doc and the fragment
ACTION: achille to review the XML doc and the fragment ←
18:06:05 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-106 - Review the XML doc and the fragment [on Achille Fokoue - due 2008-03-19].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-106 - Review the XML doc and the fragment [on Achille Fokoue - due 2008-03-19]. ←
18:06:17 <DougL> Deb, coordinate with me if you want so we can produce a joint review.
Doug Lenat: Deb, coordinate with me if you want so we can produce a joint review. ←
18:06:49 <dlm> i do not have enough time to review more than one but on the fragment document, can we include a request to describe a class of users for whom each fragment is targetted?
Deborah McGuinness: i do not have enough time to review more than one but on the fragment document, can we include a request to describe a class of users for whom each fragment is targetted? ←
18:06:51 <JeffP> (I am only available on IRC today)
Jeff Pan: (I am only available on IRC today) ←
18:07:11 <achille> ACTION: bijan to review the XML document
ACTION: bijan to review the XML document ←
18:07:11 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-107 - Review the XML document [on Bijan Parsia - due 2008-03-19].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-107 - Review the XML document [on Bijan Parsia - due 2008-03-19]. ←
18:07:13 <sandro> ACTION: Sandro to review XML document
ACTION: Sandro to review XML document ←
18:07:13 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-108 - Review XML document [on Sandro Hawke - due 2008-03-19].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-108 - Review XML document [on Sandro Hawke - due 2008-03-19]. ←
18:09:08 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
18:09:12 <achille> ACTION: boajie to review the fragment
ACTION: boajie to review the fragment ←
18:09:12 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - boajie
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - boajie ←
18:09:16 <alanr> ack bijan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan ←
18:09:16 <bijan> ack bijan
Bijan Parsia: ack bijan ←
18:09:29 <msmith> can you summarize?
Michael Smith: can you summarize? ←
18:10:22 <achille> ACTION: bijan to review just the fragment
ACTION: bijan to review just the fragment ←
18:10:22 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-109 - Review just the fragment [on Bijan Parsia - due 2008-03-19].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-109 - Review just the fragment [on Bijan Parsia - due 2008-03-19]. ←
18:10:32 <msmith> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/open
Michael Smith: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/open ←
18:11:13 <DougL> I will be reviewing the Primer
Doug Lenat: I will be reviewing the Primer ←
18:11:13 <bijan> I will review the fragments document
Bijan Parsia: I will review the fragments document ←
18:11:19 <sandro> I am to review XML
Sandro Hawke: I am to review XML ←
18:11:21 <achille> I will review the XML and the fragment
I will review the XML and the fragment ←
18:11:27 <dlm> I have taken on reviewing the primer with Jie Bao helping as well.
Deborah McGuinness: I have taken on reviewing the primer with Jie Bao helping as well. ←
18:11:33 <jiebao> my user name is "baojie" on the wiki
Jie Bao: my user name is "baojie" on the wiki ←
18:11:36 <m_schnei> I will review nothing :)
Michael Schneider: I will review nothing :) ←
18:11:43 <msmith> for which?
Michael Smith: for which? ←
18:11:50 <msmith> sure :)
Michael Smith: sure :) ←
18:11:55 <msmith> fragments it is!
Michael Smith: fragments it is! ←
18:11:55 <achille> ACTION: DougL to review the primer
ACTION: DougL to review the primer ←
18:11:55 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - DougL
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - DougL ←
18:12:12 <achille> ACTION: dlm to review the primer
ACTION: dlm to review the primer ←
18:12:12 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - dlm
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - dlm ←
18:12:22 <msmith> ACTION: msmith to review the fragments document
ACTION: msmith to review the fragments document ←
18:12:22 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - msmith
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - msmith ←
18:12:26 <sandro> jiebao, I don't suppose you'd be willing to pick one form of your name and stick to it, for us? (using the name you want to be called first.)
Sandro Hawke: jiebao, I don't suppose you'd be willing to pick one form of your name and stick to it, for us? (using the name you want to be called first.) ←
18:12:45 <msmith> ACTION: smith to review the fragments document
ACTION: smith to review the fragments document ←
18:12:45 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-110 - Review the fragments document [on Michael Smith - due 2008-03-19].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-110 - Review the fragments document [on Michael Smith - due 2008-03-19]. ←
18:13:06 <bijan> Didn't rpi delay this: http://www.w3.org/mid/47D80C16.6030504@ksl.stanford.edu
Bijan Parsia: Didn't rpi delay this: http://www.w3.org/mid/47D80C16.6030504@ksl.stanford.edu ←
18:13:07 <achille> alan: which syntax should be used for the primer?
Alan Ruttenberg: which syntax should be used for the primer? ←
18:13:29 <achille> alan: should it be addressed before the submit the draft?
Alan Ruttenberg: should it be addressed before the submit the draft? ←
18:13:29 <bijan> Wrong email: http://www.w3.org/mid/47D80CF7.2060006@ksl.stanford.edu
Bijan Parsia: Wrong email: http://www.w3.org/mid/47D80CF7.2060006@ksl.stanford.edu ←
18:13:40 <bijan> "We also recognize Bijan's email about the syntax issues and his very good suggestion of having an automated hookup to the owl api (or similar translator) so for the moment will not address the syntax issue."
Bijan Parsia: "We also recognize Bijan's email about the syntax issues and his very good suggestion of having an automated hookup to the owl api (or similar translator) so for the moment will not address the syntax issue." ←
18:14:06 <baojie> i will stick to baojie to be consistent to my ids everywhere
Jie Bao: i will stick to baojie to be consistent to my ids everywhere ←
18:14:16 <jeremy> +1 to sotd fix
Jeremy Carroll: +1 to sotd fix ←
18:15:11 <achille> ivan: we have to be careful that any language we use should be a clear stable description
Ivan Herman: we have to be careful that any language we use should be a clear stable description ←
18:15:45 <jeremy> q+ to suggest owl/xml + xslt
Jeremy Carroll: q+ to suggest owl/xml + xslt ←
18:15:55 <pfps> q+ to ask why an informative document cannot reference non-W3 stuff
Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to ask why an informative document cannot reference non-W3 stuff ←
18:16:19 <bijan> I'll note that it's the "Sandro Approach"
Bijan Parsia: I'll note that it's the "Sandro Approach" ←
18:16:20 <achille> alan: for the short term. can we voice your concern in the status of the document
Alan Ruttenberg: for the short term. can we voice your concern in the status of the document ←
18:16:37 <pfps> q+ to say that the Manchester syntax could be turned into a WG note in short order
Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to say that the Manchester syntax could be turned into a WG note in short order ←
18:17:29 <jeremy> q-
Jeremy Carroll: q- ←
18:17:33 <pfps> in RDF semantics [Conen&Klapsing]
Peter Patel-Schneider: in RDF semantics [Conen&Klapsing] ←
18:17:34 <pfps> A Logical Interpretation of RDF, Conen, W., Klapsing, R..Circulated to RDF Interest Group, August 2000.
Peter Patel-Schneider: A Logical Interpretation of RDF, Conen, W., Klapsing, R..Circulated to RDF Interest Group, August 2000. ←
18:17:35 <achille> ivan: not sure. the issue is for the long term (once the primer becomes a standard)
Ivan Herman: not sure. the issue is for the long term (once the primer becomes a standard) ←
18:17:49 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
18:17:58 <achille> pfps: let's publish it in its current version
Peter Patel-Schneider: let's publish it in its current version ←
18:17:59 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
18:17:59 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to ask why an informative document cannot reference non-W3 stuff and to say that the Manchester syntax could be turned into a WG note in short order
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps, you wanted to ask why an informative document cannot reference non-W3 stuff and to say that the Manchester syntax could be turned into a WG note in short order ←
18:18:06 <bijan> FPWD of that would be fine by me
Bijan Parsia: FPWD of that would be fine by me ←
18:18:27 <bijan> Turtle is on the list
Bijan Parsia: Turtle is on the list ←
18:18:27 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:18:29 <achille> ivan: turtle addition will be very valuable
Ivan Herman: turtle addition will be very valuable ←
18:18:30 <jeremy> (silently) i agree with peter
Jeremy Carroll: (silently) i agree with peter ←
18:18:38 <alanr> ack ivan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan ←
18:18:43 <achille> ... for people from RDF background
... for people from RDF background ←
18:18:44 <Rinke> +1 to turtle
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 to turtle ←
18:18:48 <bijan> has been from the beginning
Bijan Parsia: has been from the beginning ←
18:18:54 <pfps> q+ to say turtle only if there was a spec that showed how turtle maps to RDF
Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to say turtle only if there was a spec that showed how turtle maps to RDF ←
18:19:09 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
18:19:09 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to say turtle only if there was a spec that showed how turtle maps to RDF
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps, you wanted to say turtle only if there was a spec that showed how turtle maps to RDF ←
18:19:13 <dlm> could we include an action to include the minutes from the task force where this document was discussed
Deborah McGuinness: could we include an action to include the minutes from the task force where this document was discussed ←
18:19:23 <bijan> Manchester syntax was there first partly as a historical reason...we found it easier to compose in that
Bijan Parsia: Manchester syntax was there first partly as a historical reason...we found it easier to compose in that ←
18:19:41 <dlm> +q
Deborah McGuinness: +q ←
18:20:07 <ivan> ack dlm
Ivan Herman: ack dlm ←
18:20:26 <jeremy> i would like to see suvch minutes too
Jeremy Carroll: i would like to see suvch minutes too ←
18:20:29 <bijan> Translation and incorporation of more syntax is at the moment tedious so we've not done any more than the three we started with
Bijan Parsia: Translation and incorporation of more syntax is at the moment tedious so we've not done any more than the three we started with ←
18:20:31 <m_schnei> but isn't there a "natural" mapping from turtle to ntriples? and a mapping from ntriples to RDF graphs?
Michael Schneider: but isn't there a "natural" mapping from turtle to ntriples? and a mapping from ntriples to RDF graphs? ←
18:21:05 <achille> topic: Issue Discussions
18:21:07 <bmotik> Yes, there are
Boris Motik: Yes, there are ←
18:21:09 <bmotik> +q
Boris Motik: +q ←
18:21:12 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
18:21:12 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
18:21:14 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
18:21:14 <pfps> not really - there are subtleties
Peter Patel-Schneider: not really - there are subtleties ←
18:21:18 <achille> alan: I did not undestand issue 16
Alan Ruttenberg: I did not undestand ISSUE-16 ←
18:21:39 <achille> boris: it has to do with asymmetry
Boris Motik: it has to do with asymmetry ←
18:21:52 <dlm> *action on alan - include minutes from user facing group discussion of documents on the wiki page for the task force
Deborah McGuinness: *action on alan - include minutes from user facing group discussion of documents on the wiki page for the task force ←
18:22:26 <achille> boris: suggestion: annotations should be external to what is annotated
Boris Motik: suggestion: annotations should be external to what is annotated ←
18:23:08 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:23:37 <bijan> I'm unsure about this proposal
Bijan Parsia: I'm unsure about this proposal ←
18:23:58 <achille> alan: why do we need a new desgin for annotation
Alan Ruttenberg: why do we need a new desgin for annotation ←
18:24:00 <achille> ?
? ←
18:24:04 <m_schnei> if someone would propose a solution to the problem, then I would perhaps understand the problem :)
Michael Schneider: if someone would propose a solution to the problem, then I would perhaps understand the problem :) ←
18:24:10 <bijan> There was a semantic change...entailments are different
Bijan Parsia: There was a semantic change...entailments are different ←
18:24:14 <alanr> ok, so I'm not the only one
Alan Ruttenberg: ok, so I'm not the only one ←
18:24:32 <achille> boris: annotation should be some kind of comments (without any semantics)
Boris Motik: annotation should be some kind of comments (without any semantics) ←
18:24:47 <jeremy> q+
Jeremy Carroll: q+ ←
18:24:56 <alanr> me by rinke
Alan Ruttenberg: me by rinke ←
18:25:05 <jeremy> ack me
Jeremy Carroll: ack me ←
18:25:07 <Zakim> -Rinke
Zakim IRC Bot: -Rinke ←
18:25:11 <alanr> ack jeremy
Alan Ruttenberg: ack jeremy ←
18:25:31 <bmotik> +q
Boris Motik: +q ←
18:25:39 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
18:25:50 <achille> jeremy: from the rdf point of view, are the substance of their concerns (e.g. Dublin )
Jeremy Carroll: from the rdf point of view, annotation are the substance of their concerns (e.g. Dublin ) ←
18:26:12 <achille> s/are/annotation are
18:26:57 <achille> alan: we should continue this discussion on email
Alan Ruttenberg: we should continue this discussion on email ←
18:26:58 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
18:27:12 <jeremy> (only some rdf subcommunities - some rdf-ers have same view as hcls)
Jeremy Carroll: (only some rdf subcommunities - some rdf-ers have same view as hcls) ←
18:27:22 <bijan> ack bijan
Bijan Parsia: ack bijan ←
18:27:32 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
18:27:46 <alanr> q+ bijan
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ bijan ←
18:27:50 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
18:27:52 <achille> boris: annotation from it's very name is something unimportant
Boris Motik: annotation from it's very name is something unimportant ←
18:27:52 <alanr> q+ alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ alanr ←
18:28:12 <bijan> Read my new intro! http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Syntax#Annotations
Bijan Parsia: Read my new intro! http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Syntax#Annotations ←
18:28:15 <alanr> ack bijan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan ←
18:29:15 <m_schnei> I understand an "annotation" to *not* inherently belong to the annotated thing. For the case of ontologies: Annotations for parts of an ontology should not add to the semantics of the ontology itself
Michael Schneider: I understand an "annotation" to *not* inherently belong to the annotated thing. For the case of ontologies: Annotations for parts of an ontology should not add to the semantics of the ontology itself ←
18:29:29 <achille> bijan: both parts (annotation and axioms) are important
Bijan Parsia: both parts (annotation and axioms) are important ←
18:29:45 <jeremy> thank you ...
Jeremy Carroll: thank you ... ←
18:29:54 <bmotik> +1 to bijan (even though he disagrees with me :-)
Boris Motik: +1 to bijan (even though he disagrees with me :-) ←
18:30:30 <achille> alan: the current design of annotations breaks some use of ontologies
Alan Ruttenberg: the current design of annotations breaks some use of ontologies ←
18:30:36 <jeremy> q+
Jeremy Carroll: q+ ←
18:30:43 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the call? ←
18:30:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see achille, DougL, msmith, +1.518.276.aaaa, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Sandro, bijan, bmotik, bcuencagrau (muted), Alan, MartinD (muted), Ivan, m_schnei (muted),
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see achille, DougL, msmith, +1.518.276.aaaa, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Sandro, bijan, bmotik, bcuencagrau (muted), Alan, MartinD (muted), Ivan, m_schnei (muted), ←
18:30:45 <m_schnei> important, but under different aspects
Michael Schneider: important, but under different aspects ←
18:30:47 <Zakim> ... Carsten (muted), Ratnesh, Deb_McGuinness, jeremy
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Carsten (muted), Ratnesh, Deb_McGuinness, jeremy ←
18:30:57 <achille> alan: two issues with annotations
Alan Ruttenberg: two issues with annotations ←
18:31:00 <sandro> zakim, aaaa is baojie
Sandro Hawke: zakim, aaaa is baojie ←
18:31:01 <Zakim> +baojie; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +baojie; got it ←
18:31:04 <bijan> I think fixing the current backward compatibility point does not affect any o ther design consideration, IMHO
Bijan Parsia: I think fixing the current backward compatibility point does not affect any o ther design consideration, IMHO ←
18:31:15 <achille> ... 1) whether the annotations should be in the same domain of discourse
... 1) whether the annotations should be in the same domain of discourse ←
18:31:39 <achille> ... 2) none of the owl properties should have both
... 2) none of the owl properties should have both ←
18:31:48 <jeremy> q-
Jeremy Carroll: q- ←
18:31:50 <bijan> AnnotationProperties puns data and object properties :)
Bijan Parsia: AnnotationProperties puns data and object properties :) ←
18:31:58 <sandro> Present: achille, DougL, msmith, baojie, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Sandro, bijan, bmotik, bcuencagrau, Alan, MartinD, Ivan, m_schnei, Carsten, Ratnesh, Deb_McGuinness, jeremy
Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 47 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu
Scribe problem: the name 'Deb_McGuinness' does not match any of the 47 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu
18:31:59 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
18:32:03 <sandro> ADJOURNED
Sandro Hawke: ADJOURNED ←
18:32:04 <Zakim> -bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan ←
18:32:07 <achille> I will have to leave
I will have to leave ←
18:32:11 <achille> soon
soon ←
18:32:13 <Ratnesh> bye
Ratnesh Sahay: bye ←
18:32:16 <Zakim> -bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik ←
18:32:16 <m_schnei> bye
Michael Schneider: bye ←
18:32:17 <Zakim> -Ratnesh
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ratnesh ←
18:32:17 <Zakim> -msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith ←
18:32:18 <achille> bye
bye ←
18:32:18 <Zakim> -bcuencagrau
Zakim IRC Bot: -bcuencagrau ←
18:32:20 <Zakim> -Deb_McGuinness
Zakim IRC Bot: -Deb_McGuinness ←
18:32:21 <Zakim> -Carsten
Zakim IRC Bot: -Carsten ←
18:32:22 <Zakim> -Alan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Alan ←
18:32:24 <Zakim> -m_schnei
Zakim IRC Bot: -m_schnei ←
18:32:25 <Zakim> -baojie
Zakim IRC Bot: -baojie ←
18:32:26 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
18:32:27 <Zakim> -jeremy
Zakim IRC Bot: -jeremy ←
18:32:37 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
18:33:10 <Zakim> -MartinD
Zakim IRC Bot: -MartinD ←
18:33:11 <Zakim> -Peter_Patel-Schneider
Zakim IRC Bot: -Peter_Patel-Schneider ←
18:33:16 <alanr> Alan: Clarifying 3 aspects of annotation properties 1) Not being in the same domain of discourse 2) Able to have both individuals and literals as values 3) being able to create associations to classes and properties
Alan Ruttenberg: Clarifying 3 aspects of annotation properties 1) Not being in the same domain of discourse 2) Able to have both individuals and literals as values 3) being able to create associations to classes and properties [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←
18:34:01 <sandro> I've got it, Alan.
Sandro Hawke: I've got it, Alan. ←
18:34:08 <Zakim> -achille
Zakim IRC Bot: -achille ←
18:34:10 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?
Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, pointer? ←
18:34:10 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-owl-irc#T18-34-10
RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-owl-irc#T18-34-10 ←
18:34:22 <Zakim> -DougL
Zakim IRC Bot: -DougL ←
18:34:23 <Zakim> SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended ←
18:34:25 <Zakim> Attendees were DougL, msmith, +1.518.276.aaaa, Rinke, Peter_Patel-Schneider, achille, Sandro, bijan, bmotik, bcuencagrau, Alan, MartinD, Ivan, +49.351.463.3.aabb, Carsten,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were DougL, msmith, +1.518.276.aaaa, Rinke, Peter_Patel-Schneider, achille, Sandro, bijan, bmotik, bcuencagrau, Alan, MartinD, Ivan, +49.351.463.3.aabb, Carsten, ←
18:34:27 <Zakim> ... m_schnei, Ratnesh, Deb_McGuinness, +7.955.aacc, jeremy, baojie
Zakim IRC Bot: ... m_schnei, Ratnesh, Deb_McGuinness, +7.955.aacc, jeremy, baojie ←
18:35:02 <sandro> RRSAgent, make record public
Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, make record public ←
Formatted by CommonScribe