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17:54:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/05-owl-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/05-owl-irc ←
17:54:49 <alanr> zakim, this is OWL
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, this is OWL ←
17:54:49 <Zakim> alanr, I see SW_OWL()12:00PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be OWL".
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, I see SW_OWL()12:00PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be OWL". ←
17:54:55 <alanr> zakim, this will be OWL
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, this will be OWL ←
17:54:55 <Zakim> ok, alanr; I see SW_OWL()12:00PM scheduled to start 54 minutes ago
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, alanr; I see SW_OWL()12:00PM scheduled to start 54 minutes ago ←
17:55:21 <alanr> zakim, ouch
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, ouch ←
17:55:21 <Zakim> I don't understand 'ouch', alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'ouch', alanr ←
17:55:37 <alanr> sandro, why does zakim think this starts at 12?
Alan Ruttenberg: sandro, why does zakim think this starts at 12? ←
17:57:02 <Zakim> SW_OWL()12:00PM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()12:00PM has now started ←
17:57:04 <Zakim> +??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←
17:57:54 <Zakim> + +31.20.525.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +31.20.525.aaaa ←
17:57:54 <Zakim> - +31.20.525.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: - +31.20.525.aaaa ←
17:57:54 <Zakim> + +31.20.525.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +31.20.525.aaaa ←
17:58:01 <Ratnesh> zakim, ??P3 is me
Ratnesh Sahay: zakim, ??P3 is me ←
17:58:01 <Zakim> +Ratnesh; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ratnesh; got it ←
17:58:03 <Zakim> + +1.202.408.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.202.408.aabb ←
17:58:04 <Rinke> Zakim, aaaa is me
Rinke Hoekstra: Zakim, aaaa is me ←
17:58:05 <Zakim> +Rinke; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Rinke; got it ←
17:58:14 <msmith> zakim, aabb is me
Michael Smith: zakim, aabb is me ←
17:58:14 <Zakim> +msmith; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +msmith; got it ←
17:59:25 <sandro> alanr, because we had some pre-telecon-telecons, and so I just made the reservation thus, so that pre-telecon-telecons wouldn't need any special work. If we're not doing those any more, we should probably change it back.
Sandro Hawke: alanr, because we had some pre-telecon-telecons, and so I just made the reservation thus, so that pre-telecon-telecons wouldn't need any special work. If we're not doing those any more, we should probably change it back. ←
17:59:44 <Zakim> +??P7
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7 ←
17:59:48 <Zakim> +??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8 ←
17:59:50 <bijan> zakim, ??P7 is me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, ??P7 is me ←
17:59:50 <Zakim> +bijan; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan; got it ←
17:59:56 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:59:56 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
18:00:23 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aacc ←
18:00:35 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider
Zakim IRC Bot: +Peter_Patel-Schneider ←
18:00:37 <Zakim> +Elisa_Kendall
Zakim IRC Bot: +Elisa_Kendall ←
18:00:40 <Zakim> +??P13
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13 ←
18:00:47 <Zakim> +[IBM]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM] ←
18:00:49 <Zhe> zakim, ??P13 is me
18:00:49 <Zakim> +Zhe; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe; got it ←
18:00:53 <Achille> Zakim, IBM is Achille
Achille Fokoue: Zakim, IBM is Achille ←
18:00:53 <Zakim> +Achille; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Achille; got it ←
18:00:57 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
18:01:08 <Zakim> + +0190827aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +0190827aadd ←
18:01:18 <MartinD> zakim, aadd is me
Martin Dzbor: zakim, aadd is me ←
18:01:18 <Zakim> +MartinD; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MartinD; got it ←
18:01:23 <MartinD> zakim, mute me
Martin Dzbor: zakim, mute me ←
18:01:23 <Zakim> MartinD should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MartinD should now be muted ←
18:01:36 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
18:01:36 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
18:01:38 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
18:01:49 <Zakim> -Zhe
Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe ←
18:02:02 <Zakim> +Vipul_Kashyap
Zakim IRC Bot: +Vipul_Kashyap ←
18:02:15 <Zakim> +Jeff_Pan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Jeff_Pan ←
18:02:32 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
18:02:39 <Zakim> +DougL
Zakim IRC Bot: +DougL ←
18:02:47 <m_schnei> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
Michael Schneider: zakim, [IPcaller] is me ←
18:02:47 <Zakim> +m_schnei; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +m_schnei; got it ←
18:03:00 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:03:00 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted ←
18:03:11 <Zakim> + +0186527aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +0186527aaee ←
18:03:19 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.276.aaff ←
18:03:21 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace
Zakim IRC Bot: +Evan_Wallace ←
18:03:23 <Zakim> +Alan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Alan ←
18:03:26 <hendler> zakim, aaff is me
James Hendler: zakim, aaff is me ←
18:03:26 <Zakim> +hendler; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +hendler; got it ←
18:03:28 <IanH> zakim, aaee is IanH
Ian Horrocks: zakim, aaee is IanH ←
18:03:28 <Zakim> +IanH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +IanH; got it ←
18:03:37 <Zakim> +??P1
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1 ←
18:03:39 <alanr> sandro: got it
Sandro Hawke: got it [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←
18:03:47 <alanr> zakim, who is here?
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here? ←
18:03:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ratnesh, Rinke, msmith, bijan (muted), MarkusK, +1.603.897.aacc, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Achille, Sandro, MartinD (muted), Ivan, Vipul_Kashyap,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Ratnesh, Rinke, msmith, bijan (muted), MarkusK, +1.603.897.aacc, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Achille, Sandro, MartinD (muted), Ivan, Vipul_Kashyap, ←
18:03:48 <bmotik> Zakim, ??p1 is me
Boris Motik: Zakim, ??p1 is me ←
18:03:51 <Zakim> ... Jeff_Pan, m_schnei (muted), DougL, IanH, hendler, Evan_Wallace, Alan, ??P1
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Jeff_Pan, m_schnei (muted), DougL, IanH, hendler, Evan_Wallace, Alan, ??P1 ←
18:03:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see hendler, bmotik, vipul, jeremy, IanH, DougL, JeffP, ivan, Achille, Zhe, MarkusK, Elisa, Ratnesh, pfps, RRSAgent, MartinD, Zakim, alanr, msmith, Rinke, m_schnei, bijan,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see hendler, bmotik, vipul, jeremy, IanH, DougL, JeffP, ivan, Achille, Zhe, MarkusK, Elisa, Ratnesh, pfps, RRSAgent, MartinD, Zakim, alanr, msmith, Rinke, m_schnei, bijan, ←
18:03:55 <Zakim> ... ewallace, sandro, trackbot-ng
Zakim IRC Bot: ... ewallace, sandro, trackbot-ng ←
18:03:55 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it ←
18:04:00 <alanr> 603 number unaccounted for
Alan Ruttenberg: 603 number unaccounted for ←
18:04:03 <alanr> zakim, who is here?
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here? ←
18:04:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ratnesh, Rinke, msmith, bijan (muted), MarkusK, +1.603.897.aacc, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Achille, Sandro, MartinD (muted), Ivan, Vipul_Kashyap,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Ratnesh, Rinke, msmith, bijan (muted), MarkusK, +1.603.897.aacc, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Achille, Sandro, MartinD (muted), Ivan, Vipul_Kashyap, ←
18:04:07 <Zakim> ... Jeff_Pan, m_schnei (muted), DougL, IanH (muted), hendler, Evan_Wallace, Alan, bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Jeff_Pan, m_schnei (muted), DougL, IanH (muted), hendler, Evan_Wallace, Alan, bmotik ←
18:04:09 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
18:04:09 <Zakim> On IRC I see hendler, bmotik, vipul, jeremy, IanH, DougL, JeffP, ivan, Achille, Zhe, MarkusK, Elisa, Ratnesh, pfps, RRSAgent, MartinD, Zakim, alanr, msmith, Rinke, m_schnei, bijan,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see hendler, bmotik, vipul, jeremy, IanH, DougL, JeffP, ivan, Achille, Zhe, MarkusK, Elisa, Ratnesh, pfps, RRSAgent, MartinD, Zakim, alanr, msmith, Rinke, m_schnei, bijan, ←
18:04:11 <Zhe> Zakim, +1.603.897.aacc is me
Zhe Wu: Zakim, +1.603.897.aacc is me ←
18:04:12 <Zakim> ... ewallace, sandro, trackbot-ng
Zakim IRC Bot: ... ewallace, sandro, trackbot-ng ←
18:04:14 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
18:04:16 <Zakim> +Zhe; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe; got it ←
18:05:00 <vipul> Alan: Rearrange agenda to get the fragments discussion earlier
Alan Ruttenberg: Rearrange agenda to get the fragments discussion earlier [ Scribe Assist by Vipul Kashyap ] ←
18:05:09 <Rinke> ScribeNick: vipul
(Scribe set to Vipul Kashyap)
18:05:34 <alanr> zakim, who is here?
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here? ←
18:05:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ratnesh, Rinke, msmith, bijan (muted), MarkusK, Zhe, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Achille, Sandro, MartinD (muted), Ivan, Vipul_Kashyap, Jeff_Pan,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Ratnesh, Rinke, msmith, bijan (muted), MarkusK, Zhe, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Achille, Sandro, MartinD (muted), Ivan, Vipul_Kashyap, Jeff_Pan, ←
18:05:38 <Zakim> ... m_schnei (muted), DougL, IanH (muted), hendler, Evan_Wallace, Alan, bmotik (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: ... m_schnei (muted), DougL, IanH (muted), hendler, Evan_Wallace, Alan, bmotik (muted) ←
18:05:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see hendler, bmotik, vipul, jeremy, IanH, DougL, JeffP, ivan, Achille, Zhe, MarkusK, Elisa, Ratnesh, pfps, RRSAgent, MartinD, Zakim, alanr, msmith, Rinke, m_schnei, bijan,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see hendler, bmotik, vipul, jeremy, IanH, DougL, JeffP, ivan, Achille, Zhe, MarkusK, Elisa, Ratnesh, pfps, RRSAgent, MartinD, Zakim, alanr, msmith, Rinke, m_schnei, bijan, ←
18:05:42 <Zakim> ... ewallace, sandro, trackbot-ng
Zakim IRC Bot: ... ewallace, sandro, trackbot-ng ←
18:05:51 <IanH> I'm on
Ian Horrocks: I'm on ←
18:06:01 <Achille> +q
Achille Fokoue: +q ←
18:06:05 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:06:10 <alanr> ack achille
Alan Ruttenberg: ack achille ←
18:06:33 <sandro> that was Achille
Sandro Hawke: that was Achille ←
18:06:45 <vipul> Achille: Start the discussion on fragments earlier
Achille Fokoue: Start the discussion on fragments earlier ←
18:07:31 <hendler> +1 prev min
James Hendler: +1 prev min ←
18:07:36 <sandro> PROPOSED: approve previous minutes
PROPOSED: approve previous minutes ←
18:07:37 <pfps> +1 minutes
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 minutes ←
18:07:37 <ivan> +1 prev minutes
Ivan Herman: +1 prev minutes ←
18:07:38 <DougL> 0 (wasn't on the call)
Doug Lenat: 0 (wasn't on the call) ←
18:07:40 <IanH> +1
Ian Horrocks: +1 ←
18:07:41 <msmith> +1 to accept prev min
Michael Smith: +1 to accept prev min ←
18:07:44 <Zhe> +1
18:07:49 <Rinke> 0 (wasn't on the call either)
Rinke Hoekstra: 0 (wasn't on the call either) ←
18:07:55 <bijan> +1 mintues
Bijan Parsia: +1 mintues ←
18:08:06 <Ratnesh> 0 (wasn't on the call)
Ratnesh Sahay: 0 (wasn't on the call) ←
18:08:13 <sandro> RESOLVED: approved minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.27/Minutes
RESOLVED: approved minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.27/Minutes ←
18:08:30 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?
Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, pointer? ←
18:08:30 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/03/05-owl-irc#T18-08-30
RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/03/05-owl-irc#T18-08-30 ←
18:09:00 <vipul> Alan: Issue 95 discussion to resolve... Was the action item completed?
Alan Ruttenberg: ISSUE-95 discussion to resolve... Was the action item completed? ←
18:09:11 <vipul> Alan: How to resolve Issue 3, Tabled for now
Alan Ruttenberg: How to resolve ISSUE-3, Tabled for now ←
18:09:39 <sandro> RRSAgent, make record public
Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, make record public ←
18:09:43 <vipul> Alan: seek feedback on Action IItems
Alan Ruttenberg: seek feedback on Action IItems ←
18:09:52 <vipul> Alan: Close pending action items
Alan Ruttenberg: Close pending action items ←
18:10:07 <vipul> Alan: Status of action 86?
Alan Ruttenberg: Status of ACTION-86? ←
18:10:17 <alanr> zakim, who is here?
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here? ←
18:10:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ratnesh, Rinke, msmith, bijan (muted), MarkusK, Zhe, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Achille, Sandro, MartinD (muted), Ivan, Vipul_Kashyap, Jeff_Pan,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Ratnesh, Rinke, msmith, bijan (muted), MarkusK, Zhe, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Achille, Sandro, MartinD (muted), Ivan, Vipul_Kashyap, Jeff_Pan, ←
18:10:20 <Zakim> ... m_schnei (muted), DougL, IanH (muted), hendler, Evan_Wallace, Alan, bmotik (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: ... m_schnei (muted), DougL, IanH (muted), hendler, Evan_Wallace, Alan, bmotik (muted) ←
18:10:23 <vipul> Alan: Jeremy to respond?
Alan Ruttenberg: Jeremy to respond? ←
18:10:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see hendler, bmotik, vipul, jeremy, IanH, DougL, JeffP, ivan, Achille, Zhe, MarkusK, Elisa, Ratnesh, pfps, RRSAgent, MartinD, Zakim, alanr, msmith, Rinke, m_schnei, bijan,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see hendler, bmotik, vipul, jeremy, IanH, DougL, JeffP, ivan, Achille, Zhe, MarkusK, Elisa, Ratnesh, pfps, RRSAgent, MartinD, Zakim, alanr, msmith, Rinke, m_schnei, bijan, ←
18:10:25 <Zakim> ... ewallace, sandro, trackbot-ng
Zakim IRC Bot: ... ewallace, sandro, trackbot-ng ←
18:10:26 <alanr> jeremy, you there?
Alan Ruttenberg: jeremy, you there? ←
18:10:47 <bijan> Anticipating my overdue action...I've been posponing until we get closer to discussing hte proposal
Bijan Parsia: Anticipating my overdue action...I've been posponing until we get closer to discussing hte proposal ←
18:10:53 <bijan> I'll push it off a bit again
Bijan Parsia: I'll push it off a bit again ←
18:11:11 <bijan> I expect to do it in the next few weeks but have been working on primer etc.
Bijan Parsia: I expect to do it in the next few weeks but have been working on primer etc. ←
18:11:31 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
18:11:33 <vipul> Alan: Issue 97, Adding GRDDL to the OWL XML syntax.
Alan Ruttenberg: ISSUE-97, Adding GRDDL to the OWL XML syntax. ←
18:11:46 <vipul> Alan: Transform OWL-XML into OWL-RDF
Alan Ruttenberg: Transform OWL-XML into OWL-RDF ←
18:11:55 <pfps> q+ to ask Jeremy how to do this
Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to ask Jeremy how to do this ←
18:11:57 <alanr> ack bijan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan ←
18:11:59 <bijan> ack bijan
Bijan Parsia: ack bijan ←
18:12:03 <vipul> Alan: Do we accept this issue?
Alan Ruttenberg: Do we accept this issue? ←
18:12:12 <vipul> Bijan: OK with accepting the issue
Bijan Parsia: OK with accepting the issue ←
18:12:33 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
18:12:33 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to ask Jeremy how to do this
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps, you wanted to ask Jeremy how to do this ←
18:12:49 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
18:12:55 <alanr> ack ivan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan ←
18:13:16 <vipul> Ivan: Each XML dialect has a namespace
Ivan Herman: Each XML dialect has a namespace ←
18:13:26 <bijan> It doesn't have to be XSLT
Bijan Parsia: It doesn't have to be XSLT ←
18:13:50 <vipul> Ivan: Describes how GRDDL transformations are identified and invoked using the GRDDL standard
Ivan Herman: Describes how GRDDL transformations are identified and invoked using the GRDDL standard ←
18:13:53 <Zakim> + +0789107aagg
Zakim IRC Bot: + +0789107aagg ←
18:14:10 <hendler> the main thing is that an HTTP-GET of an XML ontology document could automagically serve up an RDF version
James Hendler: the main thing is that an HTTP-GET of an XML ontology document could automagically serve up an RDF version ←
18:14:20 <alanr> right
Alan Ruttenberg: right ←
18:14:28 <bijan> "Non-XSLT transforms may indicate the RDF graph in some other, unspecified, fashion."
Bijan Parsia: "Non-XSLT transforms may indicate the RDF graph in some other, unspecified, fashion." ←
18:14:38 <Rinke> ok, thanks bijan
Rinke Hoekstra: ok, thanks bijan ←
18:14:40 <vipul> Alan: Schedule a discussion on the issue
Alan Ruttenberg: Schedule a discussion on the issue ←
18:14:43 <m_schnei> +q issue96
Michael Schneider: +q ISSUE-96 ←
18:14:57 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
18:14:57 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted ←
18:15:00 <bijan> The quote is from: http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl/#txforms
Bijan Parsia: The quote is from: http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl/#txforms ←
18:15:11 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
18:15:11 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
18:15:22 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:15:22 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted ←
18:15:37 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
18:15:37 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted ←
18:15:44 <vipul> Alan: Issue 96 on next week's agenda
Alan Ruttenberg: ISSUE-96 on next week's agenda ←
18:15:46 <Rinke> it's a raised issue
Rinke Hoekstra: it's a raised issue ←
18:16:15 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:16:15 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted ←
18:16:52 <vipul> Alan: Issue 95 to remove datatype restrictions to say things like complementOf?
Alan Ruttenberg: ISSUE-95 to remove datatype restrictions to say things like complementOf? ←
18:17:00 <Zakim> +??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21 ←
18:17:06 <vipul> Alan: remove nested restrictions on datatype range
Alan Ruttenberg: remove nested restrictions on datatype range ←
18:17:15 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, ??P21 is me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, ??P21 is me ←
18:17:15 <Zakim> +bcuencagrau; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bcuencagrau; got it ←
18:17:43 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, mute me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me ←
18:17:43 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should now be muted ←
18:17:47 <vipul> Alan: Resolve this issue as is and add a new issue to name and further restrict datatypes
Alan Ruttenberg: Resolve this issue as is and add a new issue to name and further restrict datatypes ←
18:18:06 <ewallace> I would be happy with taken up Boris' suggestion as a new issue
Evan Wallace: I would be happy with taken up Boris' suggestion as a new issue ←
18:18:09 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
18:18:09 <ewallace> +1
Evan Wallace: +1 ←
18:18:12 <pfps> +1
18:18:12 <DougL> +1
Doug Lenat: +1 ←
18:18:12 <IanH> +1
Ian Horrocks: +1 ←
18:18:16 <JeffP> +1
18:18:16 <jeremy> +1
Jeremy Carroll: +1 ←
18:18:17 <ivan> 0
Ivan Herman: 0 ←
18:18:18 <msmith> +1
Michael Smith: +1 ←
18:18:19 <Rinke> +1
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 ←
18:18:21 <MartinD> +1
Martin Dzbor: +1 ←
18:18:22 <Elisa> +1
Elisa Kendall: +1 ←
18:18:22 <Zhe> +1
18:18:25 <bijan> +1
Bijan Parsia: +1 ←
18:18:28 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
18:18:45 <hendler> 0
James Hendler: 0 ←
18:19:25 <Achille> 0
Achille Fokoue: 0 ←
18:20:14 <alanr> PROPOSED resolved issue 95 per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Feb/0129.html and open new issue for discussion of Evan and other concerns re naming and further restricting datatypes
Alan Ruttenberg: PROPOSED resolved ISSUE-95 per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Feb/0129.html and open new issue for discussion of Evan and other concerns re naming and further restricting datatypes ←
18:20:31 <alanr> RESOLVED resolved issue 95 per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Feb/0129.html and open new issue for discussion of Evan and other concerns re naming and further restricting datatypes
Alan Ruttenberg: RESOLVED resolved ISSUE-95 per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Feb/0129.html and open new issue for discussion of Evan and other concerns re naming and further restricting datatypes ←
18:20:57 <sandro> (calling it ISSUE-95 help the auto-linking.)
Sandro Hawke: (calling it ISSUE-95 help the auto-linking.) ←
18:21:05 <vipul> Alan: Start with Fragments Discussion
Alan Ruttenberg: Start with Fragments Discussion ←
18:21:26 <vipul> Alan: Pragmatics of organizing work going forward
Alan Ruttenberg: Pragmatics of organizing work going forward ←
18:22:12 <vipul> Alan: 3 fragments
Alan Ruttenberg: 3 fragments ←
18:22:23 <vipul> Alan: Overlap between OWL Lite and OWL Prime
Alan Ruttenberg: Overlap between OWL Lite and OWL Prime ←
18:22:40 <vipul> Alan: Overlap between DL Lite and OWL Prime
Alan Ruttenberg: Overlap between DL Lite and OWL Prime ←
18:22:55 <vipul> Alan: Task Force devoted to each Fragment
Alan Ruttenberg: Task Force devoted to each Fragment ←
18:22:58 <pfps> q+
18:23:00 <alanr> ?
Alan Ruttenberg: ? ←
18:23:03 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:23:08 <alanr> ack issue96
Alan Ruttenberg: ack ISSUE-96 ←
18:23:12 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
18:23:30 <hendler> q+
James Hendler: q+ ←
18:23:41 <alanr> ack hendler
Alan Ruttenberg: ack hendler ←
18:23:49 <vipul> Peter: How much work needs to be done, given the work done by Bors and Bernardo?
Scribe problem: the name 'Peter' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Peter Patel-Schneider Peter Haase . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Peter: How much work needs to be done, given the work done by Bors and Bernardo? ←
18:24:10 <vipul> Jim: Agree with Peter... Work of this document or have another task force?
Scribe problem: the name 'Jim' does not match any of the 49 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Jim: Agree with Peter... Work of this document or have another task force? ←
18:24:35 <Achille> +1
Achille Fokoue: +1 ←
18:24:36 <vipul> Jim: Far enough ahead, so probably put it in as a document of the workgroup?
Scribe problem: the name 'Jim' does not match any of the 49 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Jim: Far enough ahead, so probably put it in as a document of the workgroup? ←
18:24:40 <IanH> +1
Ian Horrocks: +1 ←
18:24:45 <pfps> +1
18:24:45 <DougL> sounds good
Doug Lenat: sounds good ←
18:24:47 <JeffP> +1
18:24:50 <bijan> +1
Bijan Parsia: +1 ←
18:24:51 <MartinD> +1
Martin Dzbor: +1 ←
18:24:53 <MarkusK> +1
Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←
18:24:56 <jeremy> +1
Jeremy Carroll: +1 ←
18:24:57 <msmith> +1
Michael Smith: +1 ←
18:25:13 <Rinke> +1
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 ←
18:25:40 <vipul> Alan: Discuss document on the mailing list and work through issues that come up on the mailing list
Alan Ruttenberg: Discuss document on the mailing list and work through issues that come up on the mailing list ←
18:25:42 <IanH> q+
Ian Horrocks: q+ ←
18:26:22 <vipul> Sandro: Is this a Rec track document?
Sandro Hawke: Is this a Rec track document? ←
18:26:28 <m_schnei> I will need quite some time to read this new version, esp. on OWL-R. It's a *big* change!
Michael Schneider: I will need quite some time to read this new version, esp. on OWL-R. It's a *big* change! ←
18:26:29 <jeremy> q+ to support rec track-ing
Jeremy Carroll: q+ to support rec track-ing ←
18:26:33 <vipul> Alan: Replace the document on the wiki?
Alan Ruttenberg: Replace the document on the wiki? ←
18:26:34 <alanr> ack IanH
Alan Ruttenberg: ack IanH ←
18:26:49 <bijan> I support replacement and rec-tracking
Bijan Parsia: I support replacement and rec-tracking ←
18:27:01 <vipul> Ian: Replace the existing fragments document with the new one on the premise rec track?
Ian Horrocks: Replace the existing fragments document with the new one on the premise rec track? ←
18:27:12 <vipul> Ian: What do you do with the existing one?
Ian Horrocks: What do you do with the existing one? ←
18:27:15 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
18:27:21 <jeremy> ack jeremy
Jeremy Carroll: ack jeremy ←
18:27:22 <Zakim> jeremy, you wanted to support rec track-ing
Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy, you wanted to support rec track-ing ←
18:27:22 <alanr> ack jeremy
Alan Ruttenberg: ack jeremy ←
18:27:31 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:27:33 <bijan> q+ to discuss what to do with others
Bijan Parsia: q+ to discuss what to do with others ←
18:27:34 <vipul> Jeremy: In favor rec tracking this document
Jeremy Carroll: In favor rec tracking this document ←
18:27:36 <hendler> q+
James Hendler: q+ ←
18:27:48 <alanr> ack ivan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan ←
18:27:59 <vipul> Ivan: Favor to rec track
Ivan Herman: Favor to rec track ←
18:28:12 <vipul> Ivan: Do not have to do this decision at the moment
Ivan Herman: Do not have to do this decision at the moment ←
18:28:17 <IanH> OK -- fine by me
Ian Horrocks: OK -- fine by me ←
18:28:21 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:28:25 <bijan> ack me
Bijan Parsia: ack me ←
18:28:25 <alanr> ack bijan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan ←
18:28:26 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to discuss what to do with others
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to discuss what to do with others ←
18:28:42 <vipul> Ivan: Turning the submission 1 into a note might make sense, but do not need to decide on this right now
Ivan Herman: Turning the submission 1 into a note might make sense, but do not need to decide on this right now ←
18:28:59 <vipul> Bijan: Agree with Ivan, Nice Template to describe fragments
Bijan Parsia: Agree with Ivan, Nice Template to describe fragments ←
18:29:07 <alanr> ack hendler
Alan Ruttenberg: ack hendler ←
18:29:11 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
18:29:11 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
18:29:24 <vipul> Bijan: Making this docuiment nice to read would be good
Bijan Parsia: Making this docuiment nice to read would be good ←
18:29:39 <bijan> Link to the submission on the new one
Bijan Parsia: Link to the submission on the new one ←
18:29:40 <vipul> Hendler: Current document should be somewhere accessible...
James Hendler: Current document should be somewhere accessible... ←
18:29:42 <m_schnei> The old version will be in the Wiki history ;-)
Michael Schneider: The old version will be in the Wiki history ;-) ←
18:29:46 <msmith> wiki history is easy
Michael Smith: wiki history is easy ←
18:30:15 <hendler> wiki history not sufficient for this
James Hendler: wiki history not sufficient for this ←
18:30:17 <vipul> Alan: Leave the document "tractable fragments" remain where it is and change the draft pointer to the new location
Alan Ruttenberg: Leave the document "tractable fragments" remain where it is and change the draft pointer to the new location ←
18:30:39 <vipul> Jim: Need ability to look at both of them carefully
Scribe problem: the name 'Jim' does not match any of the 49 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Jim: Need ability to look at both of them carefully ←
18:30:46 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
18:30:46 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:30:49 <Rinke> pages are easily moved to other locations
Rinke Hoekstra: pages are easily moved to other locations ←
18:31:23 <alanr> Action for alan? Change sidebar fragments link to new proposal?
Alan Ruttenberg: Action for alan? Change sidebar fragments link to new proposal? ←
18:31:25 <vipul> Ivan: OWL 1.1 input submission links to Fragments document. 2 links away from wiki page... Don't need to do anything
Ivan Herman: OWL 1.1 input submission links to Fragments document. 2 links away from wiki page... Don't need to do anything ←
18:31:56 <alanr> Action: Alan to change sidebar Fragments link to new page
ACTION: Alan to change sidebar Fragments link to new page ←
18:31:56 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-99 - Change sidebar Fragments link to new page [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-03-12].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-99 - Change sidebar Fragments link to new page [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-03-12]. ←
18:32:23 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:32:26 <alanr> ack ivan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan ←
18:32:41 <bijan> q+ to ask about RIF
Bijan Parsia: q+ to ask about RIF ←
18:32:43 <vipul> Jim: Entry recognized W3C format
Scribe problem: the name 'Jim' does not match any of the 49 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Jim: Entry recognized W3C format ←
18:32:52 <vipul> Jim: built rules for the fragment in that
Scribe problem: the name 'Jim' does not match any of the 49 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Jim: built rules for the fragment in that ←
18:33:20 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:33:22 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
18:33:22 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
18:33:23 <alanr> ack Bijan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack Bijan ←
18:33:23 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to ask about RIF
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to ask about RIF ←
18:33:33 <vipul> Jim: It is an executable format as engines can execute N3 descriptions
Scribe problem: the name 'Jim' does not match any of the 49 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Jim: It is an executable format as engines can execute N3 descriptions ←
18:34:31 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:34:51 <vipul> Bijan: Separate what format vs how to coordinate/reference other W3C work such as RIF
Bijan Parsia: Separate what format vs how to coordinate/reference other W3C work such as RIF ←
18:35:27 <vipul> Jim: N3 representation of the rules is useful and also gives mapping to RDF
Scribe problem: the name 'Jim' does not match any of the 49 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Jim: N3 representation of the rules is useful and also gives mapping to RDF ←
18:35:42 <vipul> Sandro: Wait for the RIF last call
Sandro Hawke: Wait for the RIF last call ←
18:36:34 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:37:00 <vipul> Jim: General discussion - What flavors of presentation of syntaxes etc are we going to use?
Scribe problem: the name 'Jim' does not match any of the 49 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Jim: General discussion - What flavors of presentation of syntaxes etc are we going to use? ←
18:37:31 <pfps> q+
18:37:37 <vipul> Jim: If we use different syntaxes - all syntaxes should be used in other documents
Scribe problem: the name 'Jim' does not match any of the 49 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Jim: If we use different syntaxes - all syntaxes should be used in other documents ←
18:37:51 <bijan> I don't understand the syntaxes part either
Bijan Parsia: I don't understand the syntaxes part either ←
18:37:51 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
18:38:03 <bijan> (of jim's comment)
Bijan Parsia: (of jim's comment) ←
18:38:04 <Zakim> -Ratnesh
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ratnesh ←
18:38:07 <m_schnei> I think that I have seen the old SKOS primer using Jena Rules syntax, but this might have changed in the meanwhile
Michael Schneider: I think that I have seen the old SKOS primer using Jena Rules syntax, but this might have changed in the meanwhile ←
18:38:29 <Zhe> is this ok http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/Talks/0110-rules-tbl/#(1)
Zhe Wu: is this ok http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/Talks/0110-rules-tbl/#(1) ←
18:38:40 <Zhe> for N3 rules
18:38:51 <vipul> Jim: ... use of standard rule formats
Scribe problem: the name 'Jim' does not match any of the 49 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Jim: ... use of standard rule formats ←
18:39:07 <vipul> Sandro: N3 Rules do not have stable documentation
Sandro Hawke: N3 Rules do not have stable documentation ←
18:39:18 <vipul> Jim: some of it may be in the N3 document
Scribe problem: the name 'Jim' does not match any of the 49 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Jim: some of it may be in the N3 document ←
18:39:36 <Zakim> +??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←
18:40:01 <Ratnesh> Zakim, ??P3 is me
Ratnesh Sahay: Zakim, ??P3 is me ←
18:40:01 <Zakim> +Ratnesh; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ratnesh; got it ←
18:40:10 <alanr> Action: Hendler to put n3 version of rules on wiki with pointer to documentation. All to review and discuss via email
ACTION: Hendler to put n3 version of rules on wiki with pointer to documentation. All to review and discuss via email ←
18:40:10 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-100 - Put n3 version of rules on wiki with pointer to documentation. All to review and discuss via email [on James Hendler - due 2008-03-12].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-100 - Put n3 version of rules on wiki with pointer to documentation. All to review and discuss via email [on James Hendler - due 2008-03-12]. ←
18:41:34 <vipul> Alan: Publication schedule: 3 documents - 3rd document is fragments document
Alan Ruttenberg: Publication schedule: 3 documents - 3rd document is fragments document ←
18:41:35 <hendler> http://www.w3.org/TeamSubmission/2008/SUBM-n3-20080114/ seems to have what we used in it
James Hendler: http://www.w3.org/TeamSubmission/2008/SUBM-n3-20080114/ seems to have what we used in it ←
18:41:41 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:41:47 <m_schnei> q+ on XML doc
Michael Schneider: q+ on XML doc ←
18:42:04 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
18:42:04 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted ←
18:42:11 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:42:15 <bijan> What are the three documents? I missed that
Bijan Parsia: What are the three documents? I missed that ←
18:42:51 <vipul> Mike: For what applications is the XML doc needed?
Michael Smith: For what applications is the XML doc needed? ←
18:42:55 <pfps> the three documents are Primer, XML, Fragments
Peter Patel-Schneider: the three documents are Primer, XML, Fragments ←
18:42:58 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:42:58 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted ←
18:43:02 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:43:08 <msmith> q+ to provide a use case
Michael Smith: q+ to provide a use case ←
18:43:16 <alanr> ack msmith
Alan Ruttenberg: ack msmith ←
18:43:16 <Zakim> msmith, you wanted to provide a use case
Zakim IRC Bot: msmith, you wanted to provide a use case ←
18:43:32 <bijan> q+ to point to existing uses
Bijan Parsia: q+ to point to existing uses ←
18:43:44 <hendler> q+ to ask about Note v. rec track status
James Hendler: q+ to ask about Note v. rec track status ←
18:43:55 <bijan> ack bijan
Bijan Parsia: ack bijan ←
18:43:55 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to point to existing uses
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to point to existing uses ←
18:44:04 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
18:44:05 <alanr> q+ to ask that xml not be able to do anything rdf/xml can't - poor motivation
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask that xml not be able to do anything rdf/xml can't - poor motivation ←
18:44:05 <vipul> MikeS: Implementation experience with XML format within DIG client/server architecture for passing explanation in the context of an NCI project
Michael Smith: Implementation experience with XML format within DIG client/server architecture for passing explaneation in the context of an NCI project ←
18:44:06 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:44:30 <vipul> Bijan: Matthew used it in MyGRid experiments
Bijan Parsia: Matthew used it in MyGRid experiments ←
18:44:33 <alanr> ack hendler
Alan Ruttenberg: ack hendler ←
18:44:33 <Zakim> hendler, you wanted to ask about Note v. rec track status
Zakim IRC Bot: hendler, you wanted to ask about Note v. rec track status ←
18:45:01 <vipul> Jim: Useful, but confusion on status of various documents
Scribe problem: the name 'Jim' does not match any of the 49 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Jim: Useful, but confusion on status of various documents ←
18:45:03 <m_schnei> anyone aware of this old W3C note: <http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-xmlsyntax/>
Michael Schneider: anyone aware of this old W3C note: <http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-xmlsyntax/> ←
18:45:09 <alanr> ack ivan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan ←
18:45:15 <bijan> Any FPWD can end up as a note
Bijan Parsia: Any FPWD can end up as a note ←
18:45:35 <vipul> Jim: If published as a draft , can decide whether to stop it as a note or go to a rec
Scribe problem: the name 'Jim' does not match any of the 49 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Jim: If published as a draft , can decide whether to stop it as a note or go to a rec ←
18:46:05 <vipul> Jim: XML exchange syntax not to be published as rec
Scribe problem: the name 'Jim' does not match any of the 49 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Jim: XML exchange syntax not to be published as rec ←
18:46:12 <jeremy> q+
Jeremy Carroll: q+ ←
18:46:17 <pfps> q+
18:46:21 <vipul> Ivan: What are the arguments for the above and what has changed since then?
Ivan Herman: What are the arguments for the above and what has changed since then? ←
18:46:29 <pfps> q+ to reply
Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to reply ←
18:46:30 <jeremy> ack jeremy
Jeremy Carroll: ack jeremy ←
18:46:42 <alanr> ack jeremy
Alan Ruttenberg: ack jeremy ←
18:46:48 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:46:48 <Zakim> m_schnei was already muted, m_schnei
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei was already muted, m_schnei ←
18:46:48 <bijan> For jim: http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#tr-end
Bijan Parsia: For jim: http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#tr-end ←
18:47:05 <vipul> Scribe not: Lines -1, -2 by Ivan and not Jim
Scribe not: Lines -1, -2 by Ivan and not Jim ←
18:47:07 <bijan> "Work on a technical report may cease at any time. When a Working Group completes its work on a technical report, it publishes it either as a Recommendation or a Working Group Note."
Bijan Parsia: "Work on a technical report may cease at any time. When a Working Group completes its work on a technical report, it publishes it either as a Recommendation or a Working Group Note." ←
18:47:23 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
18:47:23 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to reply
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps, you wanted to reply ←
18:47:38 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
18:47:39 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to ask that xml not be able to do anything rdf/xml can't - poor motivation
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to ask that xml not be able to do anything rdf/xml can't - poor motivation ←
18:47:48 <vipul> Jeremy, Peter: If we got to rec, we would have to look for implementations
Jeremy, Peter: If we got to rec, we would have to look for implementations ←
18:47:48 <bijan> q+ to talk about "Selling owl" via the XML syntax
Bijan Parsia: q+ to talk about "Selling owl" via the XML syntax ←
18:48:13 <vipul> Alan: Things in XML you cannot do in RDF/XML - undue burden on RDF/XML clients
Alan Ruttenberg: Things in XML you cannot do in RDF/XML - undue burden on RDF/XML clients ←
18:48:23 <pfps> q+ to talk about RDF/XML problems
Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to talk about RDF/XML problems ←
18:48:25 <IanH> q+
Ian Horrocks: q+ ←
18:48:27 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
18:48:28 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
18:48:28 <Zakim> bmotik was not muted, bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik was not muted, bmotik ←
18:48:33 <hendler> q+ to respond to alan
James Hendler: q+ to respond to alan ←
18:48:36 <vipul> Alan: Validate: GRDDL transformation can be written to correct the syntax errors
Alan Ruttenberg: Validate: GRDDL transformation can be written to correct the syntax errors ←
18:48:43 <jeremy> q+ to note known limitations
Jeremy Carroll: q+ to note known limitations ←
18:49:05 <vipul> Boris: DIG simple protocol for DL reasoners, committed to use XML syntax
Boris Motik: DIG simple protocol for DL reasoners, committed to use XML syntax ←
18:49:24 <vipul> Boris: DIG is using XML syntax for updates ot KB, DIG is axiom based
Boris Motik: DIG is using XML syntax for updates ot KB, DIG is axiom based ←
18:49:28 <alanr> ack bijan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan ←
18:49:28 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to talk about "Selling owl" via the XML syntax
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to talk about "Selling owl" via the XML syntax ←
18:49:29 <msmith> +1 to boris' dig use case. he is describing it better than I did
Michael Smith: +1 to boris' dig use case. he is describing it better than I did ←
18:49:33 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
18:49:33 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
18:50:09 <vipul> Bijan: People in XML groups do not like RDF/XML
Bijan Parsia: People in XML groups do not like RDF/XML ←
18:50:25 <vipul> Bijan: We are thought as XML hostile
Bijan Parsia: We are thought as XML hostile ←
18:50:28 <jeremy> +1 to bijan
Jeremy Carroll: +1 to bijan ←
18:51:14 <vipul> Bijan: Have a transformation to RDF (not document)
Bijan Parsia: Have a transformation to RDF (not document) ←
18:51:17 <hendler> q-
James Hendler: q- ←
18:51:40 <vipul> Bijan: Opens OWL to people who might be turned off by RDF/XML syntax
Bijan Parsia: Opens OWL to people who might be turned off by RDF/XML syntax ←
18:51:48 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
18:51:48 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to talk about RDF/XML problems
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps, you wanted to talk about RDF/XML problems ←
18:52:00 <hendler> +1 to Bijan - and I agree w/him that the GRDDL thing is very important
James Hendler: +1 to Bijan - and I agree w/him that the GRDDL thing is very important ←
18:52:17 <jeremy> +1 to peter
Jeremy Carroll: +1 to peter ←
18:52:18 <JeffP> +1 to Bijan
18:52:21 <vipul> Peter: Task for XML to RDF is impossible
Scribe problem: the name 'Peter' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Peter Patel-Schneider Peter Haase . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Peter: Task for XML to RDF is impossible ←
18:52:24 <alanr> q+ to respond to peter
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to respond to peter ←
18:52:27 <bijan> +1 to peter
Bijan Parsia: +1 to peter ←
18:52:31 <MarkusK> +1 to peter
Markus Krötzsch: +1 to peter ←
18:52:32 <alanr> ack IanH
Alan Ruttenberg: ack IanH ←
18:52:33 <vipul> Peter: cannot transform everything
Scribe problem: the name 'Peter' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Peter Patel-Schneider Peter Haase . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Peter: cannot transform everything ←
18:52:43 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
18:52:44 <bijan> hendler, RDF/XML can't represent all rdf graphs
Bijan Parsia: hendler, RDF/XML can't represent all rdf graphs ←
18:53:08 <alanr> q+ to answer Ian too
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to answer Ian too ←
18:53:09 <vipul> Ian: GRDDL transformation to check if we can go from XML to RDF.
Ian Horrocks: GRDDL transformation to check if we can go from XML to RDF. ←
18:53:21 <hendler> yes, I got that - but we're talking about OWL, I thought
James Hendler: yes, I got that - but we're talking about OWL, I thought ←
18:53:22 <alanr> Sandro, can you chair reminder of this discussion
Alan Ruttenberg: Sandro, can you chair reminder of this discussion ←
18:53:29 <vipul> Ian: Can map from structural syntax to RDF
Ian Horrocks: Can map from structural syntax to RDF ←
18:53:50 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
18:53:51 <vipul> Alan: sandro, please chair the rest of the session
Alan Ruttenberg: sandro, please chair the rest of the session ←
18:53:53 <jeremy> ack jeremy
Jeremy Carroll: ack jeremy ←
18:53:54 <Zakim> jeremy, you wanted to note known limitations
Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy, you wanted to note known limitations ←
18:54:05 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
18:54:05 <vipul> Jeremy: Agree with Peter
Jeremy Carroll: Agree with Peter ←
18:54:05 <Zhe> q+
18:54:08 <sandro> ack alanr
Sandro Hawke: ack alanr ←
18:54:08 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to respond to peter and to answer Ian too
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to respond to peter and to answer Ian too ←
18:54:11 <jeremy> zakim, mute me
Jeremy Carroll: zakim, mute me ←
18:54:11 <Zakim> jeremy should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should now be muted ←
18:54:21 <bijan> hendler, if OWL/XML can express properties ending with a % then you cannot translate to RDF/XML
Bijan Parsia: hendler, if OWL/XML can express properties ending with a % then you cannot translate to RDF/XML ←
18:54:39 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
18:54:47 <bijan> This is true for Turtle
Bijan Parsia: This is true for Turtle ←
18:54:49 <vipul> Alan: If I get OWL-XML which my OWL tools can grok, then I will have to retool. XML document should remain in track with them
Alan Ruttenberg: If I get OWL-XML which my OWL tools can grok, then I will have to retool. XML document should remain in track with them ←
18:55:02 <sandro> alanr: as a user I want to two formats to be in sync.
Alan Ruttenberg: as a user I want to two formats to be in sync. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:55:06 <sandro> ack ivan
Sandro Hawke: ack ivan ←
18:55:10 <vipul> Alan: GRDDL transformation to kee in track and promote interoperability
Alan Ruttenberg: GRDDL transformation to kee in track and promote interoperability ←
18:55:36 <sandro> Ivan: Gosh, we have a lot of syntaxes!
Ivan Herman: Gosh, we have a lot of syntaxes! [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:55:36 <pfps> in alan's comment s/can/can't/ I think
Peter Patel-Schneider: in alan's comment s/can/can't/ I think ←
18:55:47 <sandro> ack Zhe
Sandro Hawke: ack Zhe ←
18:55:48 <alanr> btw, I *do* think the xml syntax is a win (provided interoperability is maintained)
Alan Ruttenberg: btw, I *do* think the xml syntax is a win (provided interoperability is maintained) ←
18:55:58 <hendler> bijan, thanks, but it seems to me we're talking border cases, not major problems - is that right?
James Hendler: bijan, thanks, but it seems to me we're talking border cases, not major problems - is that right? ←
18:56:03 <bijan> Yes
Bijan Parsia: Yes ←
18:56:05 <vipul> Ivan: understand the argument, Many things? N3, RDF/XML, OWL/XML, Functional synta
Ivan Herman: understand the argument, Many things? N3, RDF/XML, OWL/XML, Functional synta ←
18:56:16 <sandro> Zhe: n-triple with predicate URI ending with slash -- can't be in RDF/XML. what other limitations?
Zhe Wu: n-triple with predicate URI ending with slash -- can't be in RDF/XML. what other limitations? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:56:17 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
18:56:22 <bijan> I think if we're as good as Turtle to RDF/XML...no one will effectively notice
Bijan Parsia: I think if we're as good as Turtle to RDF/XML...no one will effectively notice ←
18:56:24 <alanr> predicates have to be qnames
Alan Ruttenberg: predicates have to be qnames ←
18:56:28 <vipul> Zhe: Conditions of some triples not convertable into RDF
Zhe Wu: Conditions of some triples not convertable into RDF ←
18:56:50 <alanr> so http://example.org/foo#123 is invalid predicate
Alan Ruttenberg: so http://example.org/foo#123 is invalid predicate ←
18:57:06 <vipul> Peter: WG has list of issues related to transformations into RDF/XML
Scribe problem: the name 'Peter' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Peter Patel-Schneider Peter Haase . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Peter: WG has list of issues related to transformations into RDF/XML ←
18:57:12 <bijan> The last character of the URI must be a NCName legal character
Bijan Parsia: The last character of the URI must be a NCName legal character ←
18:57:28 <hendler> q+ to respond to Peter - no WG decisions yet with respect to whether the final OWL 1.1 DL will have anything that cannot map to RDF
James Hendler: q+ to respond to Peter - no WG decisions yet with respect to whether the final OWL 1.1 DL will have anything that cannot map to RDF ←
18:57:28 <jeremy> i don't think i have any others ...
Jeremy Carroll: i don't think i have any others ... ←
18:57:29 <m_schnei> I would say we have just *two* syntaxes: RDF and Functional. The rest are all serializations of either RDF or Functional. Just my point of view.
Michael Schneider: I would say we have just *two* syntaxes: RDF and Functional. The rest are all serializations of either RDF or Functional. Just my point of view. ←
18:57:32 <vipul> Alan: Predicates => Qnames => Start with digit character.... URL...
Alan Ruttenberg: Predicates => Qnames => Start with digit character.... URL... ←
18:57:44 <ivan> http://a.b.c/?afe=pqr&lo=pi is also an invalid URI for a predicate...
Ivan Herman: http://a.b.c/?afe=pqr&lo=pi is also an invalid URI for a predicate... ←
18:57:47 <vipul> Alan: Minor restrictions and do not get in the way
Alan Ruttenberg: Minor restrictions and do not get in the way ←
18:57:51 <jeremy> q+
Jeremy Carroll: q+ ←
18:58:02 <bijan> ivan, really? I don't think so
Bijan Parsia: ivan, really? I don't think so ←
18:58:14 <jeremy> i will leave too
Jeremy Carroll: i will leave too ←
18:58:15 <IanH> Nothing from me
Ian Horrocks: Nothing from me ←
18:58:17 <sandro> Alan: if the other syntax were more tollerant, then the not-serializable stuff would be a real problem.
Alan Ruttenberg: if the other syntax were more tollerant, then the not-serializable stuff would be a real problem. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:58:21 <sandro> ack JeffP
Sandro Hawke: ack JeffP ←
18:58:22 <bijan> xmlns:d=http://a.b.c/?afe=pqr&lo= and d:pi
Scribe problem: the name 'xmlns' does not match any of the 49 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown xmlns: d=http://a.b.c/?afe=pqr&lo= and d:pi [ Scribe Assist by Bijan Parsia ] ←
18:58:25 <sandro> ack hendler
Sandro Hawke: ack hendler ←
18:58:25 <Zakim> hendler, you wanted to respond to Peter - no WG decisions yet with respect to whether the final OWL 1.1 DL will have anything that cannot map to RDF
Zakim IRC Bot: hendler, you wanted to respond to Peter - no WG decisions yet with respect to whether the final OWL 1.1 DL will have anything that cannot map to RDF ←
18:58:27 <vipul> Rinke: Could you take over scribing now?
Rinke Hoekstra: Could you take over scribing now? ←
18:58:31 <hendler> q-
James Hendler: q- ←
18:58:32 <vipul> Need to get going
Need to get going ←
18:58:32 <JeffP> q-
18:58:33 <sandro> ack JeffP
Sandro Hawke: ack JeffP ←
18:58:37 <sandro> ack jeremy
Sandro Hawke: ack jeremy ←
18:58:38 <IanH> Have to leave now - sorry
Ian Horrocks: Have to leave now - sorry ←
18:58:38 <Rinke> ScribeNick: Rinke
(Scribe set to Rinke Hoekstra)
18:58:45 <Zakim> -IanH
Zakim IRC Bot: -IanH ←
18:58:46 <vipul> Thanks Rinke!
Vipul Kashyap: Thanks Rinke! ←
18:59:02 <Zakim> -Vipul_Kashyap
Zakim IRC Bot: -Vipul_Kashyap ←
18:59:15 <Rinke> jeremy: we considered the predicate problem Zhe was alluding to. It's an RDF problem, not an OWL problem...
Jeremy Carroll: we considered the predicate problem Zhe was alluding to. It's an RDF problem, not an OWL problem... ←
18:59:32 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
18:59:33 <alanr> q+ to remind jeremy about interoperability issue
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to remind jeremy about interoperability issue ←
18:59:34 <Rinke> jeremy: we decided not to fix it
Jeremy Carroll: we decided not to fix it ←
18:59:45 <bijan> q+ to suggest a solution
Bijan Parsia: q+ to suggest a solution ←
18:59:46 <sandro> ack alanr
Sandro Hawke: ack alanr ←
18:59:47 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to remind jeremy about interoperability issue
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to remind jeremy about interoperability issue ←
18:59:50 <Rinke> jeremy: understand alan, but am against it. But that wasn't what RDF core decided
Jeremy Carroll: understand alan, but am against it. But that wasn't what RDF core decided ←
18:59:53 <jeremy> azakim ,
Jeremy Carroll: azakim , ←
19:00:01 <jeremy> zakim, mute me
Jeremy Carroll: zakim, mute me ←
19:00:01 <Zakim> jeremy should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should now be muted ←
19:00:05 <bcuencagrau> Sorry, I also have to leave with Ian and Boris
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Sorry, I also have to leave with Ian and Boris ←
19:00:06 <sandro> m_schnei, I am chairing.
Sandro Hawke: m_schnei, I am chairing. ←
19:00:12 <Zakim> -bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik ←
19:00:18 <Rinke> alanr: we have to live with the fact that RDF/XML might not be able to live with OWL/XML syntax
Alan Ruttenberg: we have to live with the fact that RDF/XML might not be able to live with OWL/XML syntax ←
19:00:28 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
19:00:28 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan ←
19:00:35 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
19:00:37 <Rinke> alanr: don't want anything in the OWL/XML syntax that would not be compatible with RDF/XML
Alan Ruttenberg: don't want anything in the OWL/XML syntax that would not be compatible with RDF/XML ←
19:00:43 <Zakim> -bcuencagrau
Zakim IRC Bot: -bcuencagrau ←
19:00:51 <hendler> +1 to Alan - if maximally interoperable, then I'm in favor; if not so (and it is a judgment call) then I'm against it
James Hendler: +1 to Alan - if maximally interoperable, then I'm in favor; if not so (and it is a judgment call) then I'm against it ←
19:01:10 <jeremy> zakim, unmute me
Jeremy Carroll: zakim, unmute me ←
19:01:10 <Zakim> jeremy should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should no longer be muted ←
19:01:18 <Rinke> bijan: is it bad to ask for new features?
Bijan Parsia: is it bad to ask for new features? ←
19:01:33 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
19:01:49 <sandro> Bijan: but you can use turtle *now*. and thus exclude rdf/xml-only folks.
Bijan Parsia: but you can use turtle *now*. and thus exclude rdf/xml-only folks. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
19:01:50 <hendler> q+ to agree w/Alan
James Hendler: q+ to agree w/Alan ←
19:01:58 <alanr> situation on the ground is that rdf/xml is lingua franca
Alan Ruttenberg: situation on the ground is that rdf/xml is lingua franca ←
19:02:07 <Rinke> bijan: it is perfectly possible to push out some RDF that cannot be serialised into rdf/xml, but is valid RDF (turtle)
Bijan Parsia: it is perfectly possible to push out some RDF that cannot be serialised into rdf/xml, but is valid RDF (turtle) ←
19:02:20 <alanr> so in theory Bijan is correct, but in practice this will screw people
Alan Ruttenberg: so in theory Bijan is correct, but in practice this will screw people ←
19:02:27 <alanr> if not interoperable
Alan Ruttenberg: if not interoperable ←
19:02:29 <sandro> ack bijan
Sandro Hawke: ack bijan ←
19:02:29 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to suggest a solution
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to suggest a solution ←
19:02:42 <alanr> choice shouldn't be on provider.
Alan Ruttenberg: choice shouldn't be on provider. ←
19:02:43 <Rinke> bijan: it wouldn't be so difficult to provide a schema that would be able to check for compatibility with RDF/XML
Bijan Parsia: it wouldn't be so difficult to provide a schema that would be able to check for compatibility with RDF/XML ←
19:02:57 <Rinke> bijan: people should be allowed to write these things, and people already do this
Bijan Parsia: people should be allowed to write these things, and people already do this ←
19:03:00 <sandro> ack hendler
Sandro Hawke: ack hendler ←
19:03:00 <Zakim> hendler, you wanted to agree w/Alan
Zakim IRC Bot: hendler, you wanted to agree w/Alan ←
19:03:06 <Rinke> bijan: don't understand the problem
Bijan Parsia: don't understand the problem ←
19:03:27 <alanr> -1
Alan Ruttenberg: -1 ←
19:03:29 <hendler> +1 to continue
James Hendler: +1 to continue ←
19:03:32 <DougL> 0
Doug Lenat: 0 ←
19:03:32 <pfps> -1 let's do the other docs
Peter Patel-Schneider: -1 let's do the other docs ←
19:03:33 <ewallace> 0
Evan Wallace: 0 ←
19:03:33 <sandro> STRAWPOLL: 5 more minutes on this
STRAWPOLL: 5 more minutes on this ←
19:03:34 <msmith> -1 to continue on this
Michael Smith: -1 to continue on this ←
19:03:35 <Rinke> sandro: who wants to give it 5 more minutes?
Sandro Hawke: who wants to give it 5 more minutes? ←
19:03:36 <Zhe> +0
19:03:36 <MartinD> 0
Martin Dzbor: 0 ←
19:03:38 <JeffP> -1 need to leave soon
Jeff Pan: -1 need to leave soon ←
19:03:40 <Ratnesh> -1
Ratnesh Sahay: -1 ←
19:03:40 <MarkusK> -0
Markus Krötzsch: -0 ←
19:03:41 <bijan> 0
Bijan Parsia: 0 ←
19:03:44 <Rinke> sandro: (as we're out of time)
Sandro Hawke: (as we're out of time) ←
19:03:51 <alanr> needs to be taken up next week
Alan Ruttenberg: needs to be taken up next week ←
19:03:54 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
19:03:54 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
19:03:57 <Rinke> sandro: chairs will have to think about this next week
Sandro Hawke: chairs will have to think about this for next week ←
19:04:03 <ivan> zakim, who is talking?
Ivan Herman: zakim, who is talking? ←
19:04:05 <Rinke> s/next/for next
19:04:05 <alanr> noise!
Alan Ruttenberg: noise! ←
19:04:14 <Zakim> ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (32%), hendler (5%), Alan (51%), Ivan (4%)
Zakim IRC Bot: ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (32%), hendler (5%), Alan (51%), Ivan (4%) ←
19:04:22 <Rinke> alanr: we're back
Alan Ruttenberg: we're back ←
19:04:41 <Rinke> Topic: issues discussions
19:04:46 <Rinke> alanr: 5 minutes each
Alan Ruttenberg: 5 minutes each ←
19:04:59 <Rinke> alanr: issue-69 as a 'larger' issue
Alan Ruttenberg: ISSUE-69 as a 'larger' issue ←
19:05:05 <hendler> what happened to discussion of the other docs?
James Hendler: what happened to discussion of the other docs? ←
19:05:05 <Rinke> alanr: if we have more time
Alan Ruttenberg: if we have more time ←
19:05:17 <Rinke> alanr: ontology properties, issue-91
Alan Ruttenberg: ontology properties, ISSUE-91 ←
19:05:18 <pfps> what happened to the other docs?
Peter Patel-Schneider: what happened to the other docs? ←
19:05:42 <Rinke> alanr: boris added the ontology properties to the docs... but ontology properties have Ontologies as their range
Alan Ruttenberg: boris added the ontology properties to the docs... but ontology properties have Ontologies as their range ←
19:05:49 <Rinke> alanr: and domain
Alan Ruttenberg: and domain ←
19:05:51 <m_schnei> q+ to 91 and full
Michael Schneider: q+ to 91 and full ←
19:06:03 <Rinke> alanr: that's where we are right now
Alan Ruttenberg: that's where we are right now ←
19:06:07 <alanr> ack jeremy
Alan Ruttenberg: ack jeremy ←
19:06:08 <ewallace> We should be on Publication Schedule
Evan Wallace: We should be on Publication Schedule ←
19:06:22 <alanr> s/plan/plane
19:07:20 <pfps> q+
19:07:31 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
19:07:31 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted ←
19:07:32 <Rinke> jeremy: I am still suffering HP overload. Domain and range can be specified in OWL full, but don't know how this works out in the FS
Jeremy Carroll: I am still suffering HP overload. Domain and range can be specified in OWL full, but don't know how this works out in the FS ←
19:07:51 <Rinke> jeremy: it's a finite list, so we could add them to the mapping rules (if necessary)
Jeremy Carroll: it's a finite list, so we could add them to the mapping rules (if necessary) ←
19:08:02 <alanr> ack m_schnei
Alan Ruttenberg: ack m_schnei ←
19:08:02 <Zakim> m_schnei, you wanted to 91 and full
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei, you wanted to 91 and full ←
19:08:10 <Rinke> jeremy: if someone could take this up, I'd be happy (busy until easter)
Jeremy Carroll: if someone could take this up, I'd be happy (busy until easter) ←
19:08:42 <Rinke> m_schnei: I assume that the ontology properties will be in the syntax, but in OWL DL they will be interpreted as annotations
Michael Schneider: I assume that the ontology properties will be in the syntax, but in OWL DL they will be interpreted as annotations ←
19:08:45 <ivan> (easter monday = march 24)
Ivan Herman: (easter monday = march 24) ←
19:08:56 <alanr> q+ to note link to versioning issues
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to note link to versioning issues ←
19:09:07 <Rinke> m_schnei: but if they are in the RDF/XML syntax they have domain and range as OWL Full
Michael Schneider: but if they are in the RDF/XML syntax they have domain and range as OWL Full ←
19:09:16 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
19:09:18 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
19:09:18 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted ←
19:09:22 <Rinke> m_schnei: won't change anything to add the ontology range
Michael Schneider: won't change anything to add the ontology range ←
19:09:34 <Rinke> pfps: it's not really the case that they have a domain and range in OWL DL
Peter Patel-Schneider: it's not really the case that they have a domain and range in OWL DL ←
19:09:46 <Rinke> pfps: (1.0) it was not something you could talk about in OWL DL
Peter Patel-Schneider: (1.0) it was not something you could talk about in OWL DL ←
19:10:11 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
19:10:11 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to note link to versioning issues
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to note link to versioning issues ←
19:10:18 <Rinke> pfps: in a certain sense, historically this discussion is incorrect... don't think that anything extra needs to be done on these properties that is any different from annotaiton properties
Peter Patel-Schneider: in a certain sense, historically this discussion is incorrect... don't think that anything extra needs to be done on these properties that is any different from annotaiton properties ←
19:10:45 <Rinke> alanr: there have been various discussions on versioning issues. It would be desirable to have versions have more actual impact than be rather advisory
Alan Ruttenberg: there have been various discussions on versioning issues. It would be desirable to have versions have more actual impact than be rather advisory ←
19:10:58 <m_schnei> peter, I don't know whether this was an answer to me: Anyway, I only talked about OWL-1.0-Full, not DL
Michael Schneider: peter, I don't know whether this was an answer to me: Anyway, I only talked about OWL-1.0-Full, not DL ←
19:11:33 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
19:11:37 <alanr> ack jeremy
Alan Ruttenberg: ack jeremy ←
19:11:49 <Rinke> alanr: have a proposal that I will bring up when we have our versioning discussion.... for the moment what I'm hearing is ok, but would like to at least discuss whether they could in some sense 'signal' something when something is 'bad'
Alan Ruttenberg: have a proposal that I will bring up when we have our versioning discussion.... for the moment what I'm hearing is ok, but would like to at least discuss whether they could in some sense 'signal' something when something is 'bad' ←
19:12:16 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
19:12:21 <Rinke> jeremy: answer to pfps, if I recall correctly, at least syntactically the range and domain have to be there, could be an issue with punning
Jeremy Carroll: answer to pfps, if I recall correctly, at least syntactically the range and domain have to be there, could be an issue with punning ←
19:13:07 <Rinke> alanr: propose to leave it as is for OWL DL except to the extent that we have to say something about how it relates to Full.... for full we clould to followup on Michaels' issues
Alan Ruttenberg: propose to leave it as is for OWL DL except to the extent that we have to say something about how it relates to Full.... for full we clould to followup on Michaels' issues ←
19:13:14 <m_schnei> +1 to alan
Michael Schneider: +1 to alan ←
19:13:15 <hendler> -1 to close and then open different later - let's just leave it open
James Hendler: -1 to close and then open different later - let's just leave it open ←
19:13:25 <Zakim> -jeremy
Zakim IRC Bot: -jeremy ←
19:13:29 <pfps> +1 to dispatch the actual issue
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to dispatch the actual issue ←
19:13:31 <Rinke> alanr: suggest to close the issue with the note that the 'issue' (or similar) will re-arise in the future
Alan Ruttenberg: suggest to close the issue with the note that the 'issue' (or similar) will re-arise in the future ←
19:13:35 <JeffP> need to go too, sorry
Jeff Pan: need to go too, sorry ←
19:13:39 <pfps> q+
19:13:43 <Zakim> -Jeff_Pan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Jeff_Pan ←
19:13:52 <hendler> q
James Hendler: q ←
19:13:55 <hendler> q+
James Hendler: q+ ←
19:13:55 <alanr> 1?
Alan Ruttenberg: 1? ←
19:13:59 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
19:14:02 <Zakim> -Achille
Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille ←
19:14:12 <Rinke> pfps: to respond to jim in advance, the issue
Peter Patel-Schneider: to respond to jim in advance, the issue ←
19:14:36 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
19:14:38 <Rinke> pfps: under consideration says the spec lacks ontology properties. It doesn't anymore... that is different from the domain and range of said ontology properties
Peter Patel-Schneider: under consideration says the spec lacks ontology properties. It doesn't anymore... that is different from the domain and range of said ontology properties ←
19:14:40 <alanr> ack hendler
Alan Ruttenberg: ack hendler ←
19:15:03 <Rinke> hendler: I disagree with you peter, but we're up to close to a 100 issues, just closing this to open up another one doesn't seem to help
James Hendler: I disagree with you peter, but we're up to close to a 100 issues, just closing this to open up another one doesn't seem to help ←
19:15:11 <Rinke> hendler: we can put the issue off for a long time
James Hendler: we can put the issue off for a long time ←
19:15:47 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
19:15:56 <Rinke> alanr: don't see any harm in doing as peter suggest, with the blabla to at least send an email about why and how
Alan Ruttenberg: don't see any harm in doing as peter suggest, with the blabla to at least send an email about why and how ←
19:16:02 <Rinke> alanr: strong objections?
Alan Ruttenberg: strong objections? ←
19:16:04 <DougL> in that case +1
Doug Lenat: in that case +1 ←
19:16:28 <Rinke> alanr: no reason not to keep it open, just send an email so that we know where we are
Alan Ruttenberg: no reason not to keep it open, just send an email so that we know where we are ←
19:16:30 <alanr> Action: Alanr to summarize current state of issue 91
ACTION: Alanr to summarize current state of ISSUE-91 ←
19:16:30 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - Alanr
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - Alanr ←
19:16:34 <hendler> -1 => 0 with Alan's action
James Hendler: -1 => 0 with Alan's action ←
19:16:36 <alanr> Action: Alan to summarize current state of issue 91
ACTION: Alan to summarize current state of ISSUE-91 ←
19:16:48 <alanr> we will keep 91 open
Alan Ruttenberg: we will keep 91 open ←
19:16:55 <Rinke> alanr: Issue-16
19:17:01 <Rinke> alanr: entity annotations status
Alan Ruttenberg: entity annotations status ←
19:17:12 <Rinke> alanr: raised by jeremy
Alan Ruttenberg: raised by jeremy ←
19:17:14 <m_schnei> jeremy isn't there anymore
Michael Schneider: jeremy isn't there anymore ←
19:17:15 <Rinke> who just left
who just left ←
19:17:18 <pfps> +1 to defer
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to defer ←
19:17:26 <Rinke> alanr: defer?
Alan Ruttenberg: defer? ←
19:17:34 <m_schnei> +1 to peter
Michael Schneider: +1 to peter ←
19:17:34 <Rinke> alanr: ok, let's defer Issue-16
Alan Ruttenberg: ok, let's defer ISSUE-16 ←
19:17:37 <Rinke> Issue-90
19:17:51 <Rinke> alanr: Issue-90, spec lacks deprecated marker
Alan Ruttenberg: ISSUE-90, spec lacks deprecated marker ←
19:18:22 <pfps> q+
19:18:29 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
19:18:41 <Rinke> pfps: no change, specs have not changed...
Peter Patel-Schneider: no change, specs have not changed... ←
19:18:49 <Rinke> pfps: proposed myself to deprecate deprecation
Peter Patel-Schneider: proposed myself to deprecate deprecation ←
19:19:13 <bijan> Deprecation doesn't eliminate yes?
Bijan Parsia: Deprecation doesn't eliminate yes? ←
19:19:19 <Rinke> alanr: heard some objections related to backwards compatibility
Alan Ruttenberg: heard some objections related to backwards compatibility ←
19:19:32 <Rinke> pfps: deprecation in the sense 'simply not say anything about it'
Peter Patel-Schneider: deprecation in the sense 'simply not say anything about it' ←
19:19:42 <alanr> <deprecatedclas rdf:resource
Alan Ruttenberg: <deprecatedclas rdf:resource ←
19:19:43 <Rinke> alanr: wouldn't that lead to syntax errors?
Alan Ruttenberg: wouldn't that lead to syntax errors? ←
19:19:44 <hendler> q+
James Hendler: q+ ←
19:19:45 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
19:20:08 <alanr> ack hendler
Alan Ruttenberg: ack hendler ←
19:20:15 <Rinke> alanr: deprecation would mean 'we keep it here as a courtesy, but expect it to be gone in owl 2.0'
Alan Ruttenberg: deprecation would mean 'we keep it here as a courtesy, but expect it to be gone in owl 2.0' ←
19:20:21 <m_schnei> we have precedence: usage of owl:DataRange is deprecated, but it's not dropped from the vocabulary!
Michael Schneider: we have precedence: usage of owl:DataRange is deprecated, but it's not dropped from the vocabulary! ←
19:20:40 <Zakim> -Ratnesh
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ratnesh ←
19:20:41 <Rinke> hendler: I sort of like to see a package on the whole issue of 'non-semantic' elements properties classes
James Hendler: I sort of like to see a package on the whole issue of 'non-semantic' elements properties classes ←
19:20:54 <Rinke> hendler: have a confusion on the status of things we don't comment on
James Hendler: have a confusion on the status of things we don't comment on ←
19:21:01 <Rinke> hendler: do these still apply or not?
James Hendler: do these still apply or not? ←
19:21:37 <Rinke> alanr: meta comment... the authoritative wording on any of this are the specifications. To the extent that you are concerned about this... read the specs and bring up the issues one at a time
Alan Ruttenberg: meta comment... the authoritative wording on any of this are the specifications. To the extent that you are concerned about this... read the specs and bring up the issues one at a time ←
19:21:52 <Rinke> alanr: stop reading the emails (to this purpose)... only look at the spec
Alan Ruttenberg: stop reading the emails (to this purpose)... only look at the spec ←
19:21:54 <Zakim> +??P2
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P2 ←
19:21:57 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
19:22:03 <bijan> ack bijan
Bijan Parsia: ack bijan ←
19:22:20 <Ratnesh> zakim, ??P2 is me
Ratnesh Sahay: zakim, ??P2 is me ←
19:22:20 <Zakim> +Ratnesh; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ratnesh; got it ←
19:22:50 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
19:23:09 <Rinke> bijan: I think I support the 'deprecation' in the sense that we say that they are deprecated (i.e. they were not sufficiently defined for the purpose of implementation in applications, we leave them in the notes and will probably come up with something that superseeds them)
Bijan Parsia: I think I support the 'deprecation' in the sense that we say that they are deprecated (i.e. they were not sufficiently defined for the purpose of implementation in applications, we leave them in the notes and will probably come up with something that superseeds them) ←
19:23:20 <m_schnei> +1 to bijan ... to write this note
Michael Schneider: +1 to bijan ... to write this note ←
19:23:26 <Rinke> hendler: object to any such resolution, see them as valuable in many applications.
James Hendler: object to any such resolution, see them as valuable in many applications. ←
19:23:34 <Rinke> hendler: leave them as is
James Hendler: leave them as is ←
19:24:07 <Rinke> bijan: if I want to do deprecation, I cannot resort to the specs, because they don't specify it properly. We won't achieve compatibility across applications
Bijan Parsia: if I want to do deprecation, I cannot resort to the specs, because they don't specify it properly. We won't achieve compatibility across applications ←
19:24:27 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
19:24:35 <Rinke> hendler: there's a big difference between saying what this does, and specifying what it does. For humans2humans it works
James Hendler: there's a big difference between saying what this does, and specifying what it does. For humans2humans it works ←
19:24:40 <alanr> q+ to ask if there is a problem with including it
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask if there is a problem with including it ←
19:24:52 <pfps> that's not my understanding of DeprecatedClass
Peter Patel-Schneider: that's not my understanding of DeprecatedClass ←
19:24:58 <Rinke> bijan: I'm not talking about formalization, only specification. would you expect it to affect the class tree?
Bijan Parsia: I'm not talking about formalization, only specification. would you expect it to affect the class tree? ←
19:25:13 <Rinke> hendler: no, don't expect it to, but in a future version
James Hendler: no, don't expect it to, but in a future version ←
19:25:33 <bijan> Where is this specced?
Bijan Parsia: Where is this specced? ←
19:25:57 <Rinke> alanr: you can simply read it as owlClass... the person reading it may take note that the class may be removed
Alan Ruttenberg: you can simply read it as owlClass... the person reading it may take note that the class may be removed ←
19:26:12 <hendler> I like http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-ref/#Deprecation
James Hendler: I like http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-ref/#Deprecation ←
19:26:14 <bijan> I don't want an action that is likely to produce an objection
Bijan Parsia: I don't want an action that is likely to produce an objection ←
19:26:19 <pfps> I do
Peter Patel-Schneider: I do ←
19:26:24 <Rinke> alanr: what would the harm be in leaving them in there, and provide better documentation
Alan Ruttenberg: what would the harm be in leaving them in there, and provide better documentation ←
19:26:54 <alanr> deprecatedclass sameas class?
Alan Ruttenberg: deprecatedclass sameas class? ←
19:27:03 <m_schnei> +q
Michael Schneider: +q ←
19:27:06 <Rinke> pfps: I would not see a problem if such declarations did not carry semantic weight in RDF. Unfortunately they do, and therefore I strongly believe that they need to specced much better than wishy washy human consumption only stuff
Peter Patel-Schneider: I would not see a problem if such declarations did not carry semantic weight in RDF. Unfortunately they do, and therefore I strongly believe that they need to specced much better than wishy washy human consumption only stuff ←
19:27:20 <bijan> Here, a specific identifier is said to be of type owl:DeprecatedClass or owl:DeprecatedProperty, where owl:DeprecatedClass is a subclass of rdfs:Class and owl:DeprecatedProperty is a subclass of rdf:Property.
Bijan Parsia: Here, a specific identifier is said to be of type owl:DeprecatedClass or owl:DeprecatedProperty, where owl:DeprecatedClass is a subclass of rdfs:Class and owl:DeprecatedProperty is a subclass of rdf:Property. ←
19:27:23 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
19:27:23 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to ask if there is a problem with including it
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to ask if there is a problem with including it ←
19:27:25 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
19:27:25 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted ←
19:27:30 <alanr> ack m_schnei
Alan Ruttenberg: ack m_schnei ←
19:27:40 <Rinke> pfps: If one augmented the owl spec with that, then everything becomes hunky dory
Peter Patel-Schneider: If one augmented the owl spec with that, then everything becomes hunky dory ←
19:28:01 <Rinke> m_schnei: they don't have specific semantics in OWL full apart from being classes
Michael Schneider: they don't have specific semantics in OWL full apart from being classes ←
19:28:02 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
19:28:02 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted ←
19:28:19 <hendler> q+
James Hendler: q+ ←
19:28:28 <Rinke> alanr: might be a reasonable and not incompatible repair to add in the owl full semantics that owlDeprecatedClass sameAs Class
Alan Ruttenberg: might be a reasonable and not incompatible repair to add in the owl full semantics that owlDeprecatedClass sameAs Class ←
19:28:47 <alanr> ack hendler
Alan Ruttenberg: ack hendler ←
19:28:49 <Rinke> hendler: have a separate fix... would want them to be some kind of annotation
James Hendler: have a separate fix... would want them to be some kind of annotation ←
19:29:05 <msmith> the problem with annotation is rdf:type predicate right?
Michael Smith: the problem with annotation is rdf:type predicate right? ←
19:29:20 <Rinke> alanr: could you work with michael on the owl full semantics to see how this would work out
Alan Ruttenberg: could you work with michael on the owl full semantics to see how this would work out ←
19:29:32 <Rinke> msmith, I think so too
msmith, I think so too ←
19:29:43 <pfps> fine by me
Peter Patel-Schneider: fine by me ←
19:29:53 <m_schnei> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
19:29:54 <Rinke> alanr: and see how this works out wrt peter's proposal
Alan Ruttenberg: and see how this works out wrt peter's proposal ←
19:30:07 <Rinke> alanr: last comment
Alan Ruttenberg: last comment ←
19:30:15 <Rinke> alanr: meeting can be considered closed
Alan Ruttenberg: meeting can be considered closed ←
19:30:25 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
19:30:25 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted ←
19:30:27 <Rinke> scribe needs to leave soon as well
scribe needs to leave soon as well ←
19:30:27 <Zakim> -DougL
Zakim IRC Bot: -DougL ←
19:30:37 <Zakim> -bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan ←
19:30:38 <Rinke> m_schnei: what am I expected to do?
Michael Schneider: what am I expected to do? ←
19:30:48 <Zakim> -Elisa_Kendall
Zakim IRC Bot: -Elisa_Kendall ←
19:31:03 <Ratnesh> bye
Ratnesh Sahay: bye ←
19:31:06 <Zakim> -Ratnesh
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ratnesh ←
19:31:11 <Zakim> -Rinke
Zakim IRC Bot: -Rinke ←
19:31:59 <alanr> Action: Hendler to work with Michael to clarify semantics of deprecatedclass so that peter becomes happy
ACTION: Hendler to work with Michael to clarify semantics of deprecatedclass so that peter becomes happy ←
19:32:02 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-102 - Work with Michael to clarify semantics of deprecatedclass so that peter becomes happy [on James Hendler - due 2008-03-12].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-102 - Work with Michael to clarify semantics of deprecatedclass so that peter becomes happy [on James Hendler - due 2008-03-12]. ←
19:32:24 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me
Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
19:32:24 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted ←
19:33:25 <Zakim> -Peter_Patel-Schneider
Zakim IRC Bot: -Peter_Patel-Schneider ←
19:33:33 <Zhe> bye
19:33:35 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace
Zakim IRC Bot: -Evan_Wallace ←
19:33:36 <MarkusK> bye
Markus Krötzsch: bye ←
19:33:38 <Zakim> -MarkusK
Zakim IRC Bot: -MarkusK ←
19:33:39 <Zakim> -Zhe
Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe ←
19:33:41 <Zakim> -msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith ←
19:33:41 <Zakim> -hendler
Zakim IRC Bot: -hendler ←
19:33:43 <Zakim> -MartinD
Zakim IRC Bot: -MartinD ←
19:33:43 <m_schnei> bye
Michael Schneider: bye ←
19:33:44 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
19:33:51 <alanr> rrsagent, draft minutes
Alan Ruttenberg: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
19:33:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/05-owl-minutes.html alanr
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/05-owl-minutes.html alanr ←
19:33:53 <Zakim> -m_schnei
Zakim IRC Bot: -m_schnei ←
19:34:01 <alanr> rrsagent make log public
Alan Ruttenberg: rrsagent make log public ←
19:34:05 <sandro> alanr, those minutes are not used for anything.......
Sandro Hawke: alanr, those minutes are not used for anything....... ←
19:34:11 <alanr> oh
Alan Ruttenberg: oh ←
19:34:19 <alanr> rrsagent, make log public
Alan Ruttenberg: rrsagent, make log public ←
19:35:11 <alanr> zakim, who is on the call?
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is on the call? ←
19:35:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ivan, Alan
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Ivan, Alan ←
19:35:19 <sandro> zakim, list attendees
Sandro Hawke: zakim, list attendees ←
19:35:19 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +31.20.525.aaaa, Ratnesh, +1.202.408.aabb, Rinke, msmith, bijan, MarkusK, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Zhe, Achille, Sandro,
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been +31.20.525.aaaa, Ratnesh, +1.202.408.aabb, Rinke, msmith, bijan, MarkusK, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Zhe, Achille, Sandro, ←
19:35:23 <Zakim> ... +0190827aadd, MartinD, Ivan, Vipul_Kashyap, Jeff_Pan, DougL, m_schnei, +0186527aaee, +1.518.276.aaff, Evan_Wallace, Alan, hendler, IanH, bmotik, +0789107aagg, jeremy,
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +0190827aadd, MartinD, Ivan, Vipul_Kashyap, Jeff_Pan, DougL, m_schnei, +0186527aaee, +1.518.276.aaff, Evan_Wallace, Alan, hendler, IanH, bmotik, +0789107aagg, jeremy, ←
19:35:26 <Zakim> ... bcuencagrau
Zakim IRC Bot: ... bcuencagrau ←
19:35:57 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
19:35:58 <Zakim> -Alan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Alan ←
19:36:00 <Zakim> SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended ←
19:36:01 <Zakim> Attendees were +31.20.525.aaaa, Ratnesh, +1.202.408.aabb, Rinke, msmith, bijan, MarkusK, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Zhe, Achille, Sandro, +0190827aadd, MartinD, Ivan,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +31.20.525.aaaa, Ratnesh, +1.202.408.aabb, Rinke, msmith, bijan, MarkusK, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Zhe, Achille, Sandro, +0190827aadd, MartinD, Ivan, ←
19:36:05 <Zakim> ... Vipul_Kashyap, Jeff_Pan, DougL, m_schnei, +0186527aaee, +1.518.276.aaff, Evan_Wallace, Alan, hendler, IanH, bmotik, +0789107aagg, jeremy, bcuencagrau
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Vipul_Kashyap, Jeff_Pan, DougL, m_schnei, +0186527aaee, +1.518.276.aaff, Evan_Wallace, Alan, hendler, IanH, bmotik, +0789107aagg, jeremy, bcuencagrau ←
19:36:15 <sandro> Present: Ratnesh, Rinke, msmith, bijan, MarkusK, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Elisa_Kendall, Zhe, Achille, Sandro, MartinD, Ivan, Vipul_Kashyap, Jeff_Pan, DougL, m_schnei, Evan_Wallace, Alan, hendler, IanH, bmotik, jeremy, bcuencagrau
19:36:28 <sandro> Chair: Alan
19:38:03 <sandro> Minutes available at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.03.05/Minutes
Sandro Hawke: Minutes available at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.03.05/Minutes ←
Formatted by CommonScribe