edit

OWL Working Group

Minutes of 28 January 2008

Present
Elisa Kendall, Conrad Bock, Peter Patel-Schneider, Evan Wallace, Alan Ruttenberg, Ian Horrocks, Jonathan Rees, Sandro Hawke, Deborah McGuinness, Bijan Parsia
Scribe
Peter Patel-Schneider
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics

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15:01:23 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/28-owl-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/28-owl-irc

15:01:31 <IanH> what is the access code?

Ian Horrocks: what is the access code?

15:01:41 <alanr_> zakim, code?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, code?

15:01:42 <pfps> the usual owlwg

Peter Patel-Schneider: the usual owlwg

15:02:01 <pfps> zakim, who is on the phone?

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, who is on the phone?

15:02:39 <alanr_> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here?

15:02:52 <alanr_> zakim, this is owlwg

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, this is owlwg

15:03:07 <alanr_> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here?

15:03:30 <alanr_> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here?

15:03:33 <alanr_> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

15:03:40 <pfps> zakim, who is on the phone?

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, who is on the phone?

15:03:46 <Zakim> sorry, alanr_, I don't know what conference this is

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, alanr_, I don't know what conference this is

15:03:58 <Zakim> sorry, pfps, I don't know what conference this is

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, pfps, I don't know what conference this is

15:04:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Elisa, Conrad, pfps, ewallace, alanr_, IanH, jar, sandro, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Elisa, Conrad, pfps, ewallace, alanr_, IanH, jar, sandro, trackbot-ng

15:04:11 <pfps> zakim, this is owlwg

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, this is owlwg

15:04:34 <Zakim> ok, pfps; that matches SW_OWL()10:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, pfps; that matches SW_OWL()10:00AM

15:04:44 <pfps> zakim, who is on the phone?

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, who is on the phone?

15:05:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.301.975.aaaa, Evan_Wallace, ??P12, ??P1, Elisa_Kendall, ??P26

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see +1.301.975.aaaa, Evan_Wallace, ??P12, ??P1, Elisa_Kendall, ??P26

15:05:50 <IanH> I didn't see an ??Px when I joined so don't know how to tell zakim who I am

Ian Horrocks: I didn't see an ??Px when I joined so don't know how to tell zakim who I am

15:05:56 <pfps> bijan? deb? jim?

Peter Patel-Schneider: bijan? deb? jim?

15:06:13 <pfps> no regrets from jim, I think

Peter Patel-Schneider: no regrets from jim, I think

15:06:22 <IanH> How do I raise my hand?

Ian Horrocks: How do I raise my hand?

15:06:33 <pfps> bijan was sick last week - he hasn't been sending email today, to he might be sick again

Peter Patel-Schneider: bijan was sick last week - he hasn't been sending email today, to he might be sick again

15:07:23 <Zakim> + +1.518.608.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.608.aabb

15:07:36 <alanr_> 41# to "raise your hand"

Alan Ruttenberg: 41# to "raise your hand"

15:07:52 <IanH> zakim, ??P26 is IanH

Ian Horrocks: zakim, ??P26 is IanH

15:07:52 <Zakim> +IanH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +IanH; got it

15:07:53 <ewallace> The 301 num is probably Conrad

Evan Wallace: The 301 num is probably Conrad

15:07:57 <IanH> ack IanH

Ian Horrocks: ack IanH

15:08:02 <IanH> ack ??P26

Ian Horrocks: ack ??P26

15:08:04 <alanr_> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here?

15:08:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.301.975.aaaa, Evan_Wallace, ??P12, ??P1, Elisa_Kendall, IanH, +1.518.608.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see +1.301.975.aaaa, Evan_Wallace, ??P12, ??P1, Elisa_Kendall, IanH, +1.518.608.aabb

15:08:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Elisa, Conrad, pfps, ewallace, alanr_, IanH, jar, sandro, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Elisa, Conrad, pfps, ewallace, alanr_, IanH, jar, sandro, trackbot-ng

15:08:11 <Conrad> I'm (301) 975-3818

Conrad Bock: I'm (301) 975-3818

15:08:23 <pfps> zakim, ??p12 is me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, ??p12 is me

15:08:23 <Zakim> +pfps; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it

15:08:23 <alanr_> zakim, 3818 is Conrad

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, 3818 is Conrad

15:08:26 <Zakim> sorry, alanr_, I do not recognize a party named '3818'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, alanr_, I do not recognize a party named '3818'

15:08:34 <pfps> q- ??P12

Peter Patel-Schneider: q- ??P12

15:08:46 <alanr_> zakim, aaaa is Conrad

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, aaaa is Conrad

15:08:46 <Zakim> +Conrad; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Conrad; got it

15:08:58 <alanr_> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here?

15:08:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see Conrad, Evan_Wallace, pfps, ??P1, Elisa_Kendall, IanH (muted), +1.518.608.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Conrad, Evan_Wallace, pfps, ??P1, Elisa_Kendall, IanH (muted), +1.518.608.aabb

15:09:00 <IanH> Bijan not in office -- trying home

Ian Horrocks: Bijan not in office -- trying home

15:09:02 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Elisa, Conrad, pfps, ewallace, alanr_, IanH, jar, sandro, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Elisa, Conrad, pfps, ewallace, alanr_, IanH, jar, sandro, trackbot-ng

15:09:21 <alanr_> zakim, aabb is Deb

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, aabb is Deb

15:09:21 <Zakim> +Deb; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Deb; got it

15:09:31 <alanr_> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here?

15:09:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see Conrad, Evan_Wallace, pfps, ??P1, Elisa_Kendall, IanH (muted), Deb

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Conrad, Evan_Wallace, pfps, ??P1, Elisa_Kendall, IanH (muted), Deb

15:09:33 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Elisa, Conrad, pfps, ewallace, alanr_, IanH, jar, sandro, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Elisa, Conrad, pfps, ewallace, alanr_, IanH, jar, sandro, trackbot-ng

15:10:55 <IanH> Tracked down Bijan -- he is on his way!

Ian Horrocks: Tracked down Bijan -- he is on his way!

15:12:08 <Zakim> +??P38

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P38

15:12:35 <bijan> zakim, who is here?

Bijan Parsia: zakim, who is here?

15:12:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see Conrad, Evan_Wallace, pfps (muted), ??P1, Elisa_Kendall, IanH (muted), Deb, ??P38

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Conrad, Evan_Wallace, pfps (muted), ??P1, Elisa_Kendall, IanH (muted), Deb, ??P38

15:12:37 <Zakim> On IRC I see bijan, Zakim, RRSAgent, Elisa, Conrad, pfps, ewallace, alanr_, IanH, jar, sandro, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see bijan, Zakim, RRSAgent, Elisa, Conrad, pfps, ewallace, alanr_, IanH, jar, sandro, trackbot-ng

15:12:47 <IanH> zakim, ??P38 is bijan

Ian Horrocks: zakim, ??P38 is bijan

15:12:47 <Zakim> +bijan; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan; got it

15:12:49 <bijan> zakim, ??P38

Bijan Parsia: zakim, ??P38

15:12:49 <Zakim> I don't understand '??P38', bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand '??P38', bijan

15:13:04 <ewallace> Hi Bijan.

Evan Wallace: Hi Bijan.

15:13:23 <bijan> Hi, ewallace

Bijan Parsia: Hi, ewallace

15:13:28 <IanH> I don't know how this jar person is, but I guess that they shouldn't be on the call?

Ian Horrocks: I don't know how this jar person is, but I guess that they shouldn't be on the call?

15:13:42 <bijan> Jonathan Rees

Bijan Parsia: Jonathan Rees

15:13:51 <bijan> Who's with alan, I believe

Bijan Parsia: Who's with alan, I believe

15:13:58 <IanH> OK - sorry!

Ian Horrocks: OK - sorry!

15:15:29 <Zakim> -IanH

Zakim IRC Bot: -IanH

15:15:40 <pfps> scribe?

Peter Patel-Schneider: scribe?

15:16:01 <bijan> "Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG)

Bijan Parsia: "Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG)

15:16:02 <bijan> The most complete overview

Bijan Parsia: The most complete overview

15:16:02 <bijan> "

Bijan Parsia: "

15:16:12 <IanH> Skype dropped me -- back soon!

Ian Horrocks: Skype dropped me -- back soon!

15:16:33 <pfps> ScribeNick: pfps

(Scribe set to Peter Patel-Schneider)

15:16:46 <pfps> Elisa:  twice as many overviews as primers

Elisa Kendall: twice as many overviews as primers

15:16:52 <pfps> Bijan: of what sort?

Bijan Parsia: of what sort?

15:17:00 <pfps> Elisa: not necessarily rec track

Elisa Kendall: not necessarily rec track

15:17:16 <pfps> Elisa: overview - .....

Elisa Kendall: overview - .....

15:17:17 <jar> jar = Jonathan Rees of Science Commons. Alan asked me to help out so I'm a WG member. I'm not on the call, just on irc.

Jonathan Rees: jar = Jonathan Rees of Science Commons. Alan asked me to help out so I'm a WG member. I'm not on the call, just on irc.

15:17:40 <pfps> Elisa: primer - longer document - some insight - not for experts

Elisa Kendall: primer - longer document - some insight - not for experts

15:17:58 <pfps> Elisa: quick start guide - pointers, a little bit of stuff - that's it

Elisa Kendall: quick start guide - pointers, a little bit of stuff - that's it

15:18:31 <pfps> Elisa: short is needed

Elisa Kendall: short is needed

15:18:40 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

15:18:45 <alanr_> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

15:19:50 <pfps> Bijan: guide goals are - short, entry point

Bijan Parsia: guide goals are - short, entry point

15:19:59 <pfps> Bijan:  seems to align with Elisa's point

Bijan Parsia: seems to align with Elisa's point

15:20:12 <pfps> Bijan: longer guide is not necessary

Bijan Parsia: longer guide is not necessary

15:20:21 <pfps> Bijan: home page can serve as entry point

Bijan Parsia: home page can serve as entry point

15:20:58 <pfps> BIjan: inter doc pointers are very useful

Bijan Parsia: inter doc pointers are very useful

15:21:09 <pfps> Bijan: multiple documents are their own load

Bijan Parsia: multiple documents are their own load

15:21:21 <Zakim> +??P26

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P26

15:21:31 <IanH> zakim, ??P26 is IanH

Ian Horrocks: zakim, ??P26 is IanH

15:21:31 <Zakim> +IanH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +IanH; got it

15:21:35 <bijan> ack me

Bijan Parsia: ack me

15:21:36 <pfps> Bijan: home page can play role of entry point

Bijan Parsia: home page can play role of entry point

15:22:41 <pfps> Alan: Guide = Primer - narrative story

Alan Ruttenberg: Guide = Primer - narrative story

15:23:40 <pfps> Alan: missing from Overview - small orientation document, delta from previous

Alan Ruttenberg: missing from Overview - small orientation document, delta from previous

15:24:26 <ewallace> I am against tath

Evan Wallace: I am against tath

15:24:33 <pfps> Alan: Can we merge reference, syntax, and semantics?

Alan Ruttenberg: Can we merge reference, syntax, and semantics?

15:25:39 <Conrad> I thought Jim H was against that.  I am also.  The reference is supposed to be easy to use.  Having a swtich is effectively different documents.

Conrad Bock: I thought Jim H was against that. I am also. The reference is supposed to be easy to use. Having a swtich is effectively different documents.

15:26:17 <pfps> Alan: merge reference and syntax - i.e., no separate 'reference'

Alan Ruttenberg: merge reference and syntax - i.e., no separate 'reference'

15:26:48 <Conrad> We should distinguish folding from what the user sees.

Conrad Bock: We should distinguish folding from what the user sees.

15:26:57 <pfps> Bijan: there is little information hiding needed - only reorganizaion

Bijan Parsia: there is little information hiding needed - only reorganizaion

15:27:15 <Conrad> Folding effectively produces separate documents, which is more what I'd like to see.

Conrad Bock: Folding effectively produces separate documents, which is more what I'd like to see.

15:27:29 <alanr_> chat by talking, not in irc, please

Alan Ruttenberg: chat by talking, not in irc, please

15:27:33 <alanr_> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

15:27:37 <alanr_> ack alanr_

Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr_

15:28:21 <alanr_> elisa suggesting "fold out" as overview. More than links to document. Summary of features of the language

Alan Ruttenberg: elisa suggesting "fold out" as overview. More than links to document. Summary of features of the language

15:28:33 <pfps> it would be nice to have Elisa's methodology on overview vs primer in the minutes

it would be nice to have Elisa's methodology on overview vs primer in the minutes

15:28:55 <pfps> Elisa: overview = "fold out" document

Elisa Kendall: overview = "fold out" document

15:29:29 <bijan> What?

Bijan Parsia: What?

15:29:33 <alanr_> will ask

Alan Ruttenberg: will ask

15:29:34 <pfps> Elisa: guide has to have a story

Elisa Kendall: guide has to have a story

15:29:38 <pfps> q+

q+

15:29:49 <pfps> Elisa: issues with wine as an example ontology

Elisa Kendall: issues with wine as an example ontology

15:30:15 <pfps> Elisa: also guidance on how to do things

Elisa Kendall: also guidance on how to do things

15:31:22 <pfps> Pfps: primer has a story

Peter Patel-Schneider: primer has a story

15:31:49 <pfps> Elisa: guide also has an application - gives people a feeling of how to use an ontology

Elisa Kendall: guide also has an application - gives people a feeling of how to use an ontology

15:31:50 <alanr_> elisa: Some code and suggestions to run themselves as addition to primer

Elisa Kendall: Some code and suggestions to run themselves as addition to primer [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ]

15:31:52 <pfps> q-

q-

15:32:32 <pfps> Topic: Primer

1. Primer

15:33:11 <Zakim> -Elisa_Kendall

Zakim IRC Bot: -Elisa_Kendall

15:33:40 <pfps> q+

q+

15:34:33 <alanr_> Bijan: Detailed comments not necessarily useful here, as this is first draft

Bijan Parsia: Detailed comments not necessarily useful here, as this is first draft [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ]

15:34:46 <pfps> Bijan: not interested (right now) in detailed comments

Bijan Parsia: not interested (right now) in detailed comments

15:34:49 <alanr_> Bijan: Proposes that overview and guide can be covered by this document

Bijan Parsia: Proposes that overview and guide can be covered by this document [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ]

15:34:54 <pfps> Bijan: primer is first draft

Bijan Parsia: primer is first draft

15:35:06 <pfps> Bijan: primer is supposed to cover overview and guide

Bijan Parsia: primer is supposed to cover overview and guide

15:35:39 <alanr_> Bijan: To the degree that it can cover both overview/guide would like to hear people's comments

Bijan Parsia: To the degree that it can cover both overview/guide would like to hear people's comments [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ]

15:36:02 <alanr_> Peter: Direction should be clear. Better direction than guide+overview of old

Scribe problem: the name 'Peter' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Peter Patel-Schneider Peter Haase . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Unknown Peter: Direction should be clear. Better direction than guide+overview of old [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ]

15:36:52 <bijan> +1 to introduction

Bijan Parsia: +1 to introduction

15:36:53 <pfps> Evan: I like primer - it is an introduction

Evan Wallace: I like primer - it is an introduction

15:36:54 <alanr_> Evan: Primer is an "introduction"

Evan Wallace: Primer is an "introduction" [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ]

15:37:15 <pfps> Evan: fundamental tension between overview and guide - can there be one document

Evan Wallace: fundamental tension between overview and guide - can there be one document

15:37:31 <pfps> Evan: we may not need a long guide

Evan Wallace: we may not need a long guide

15:37:46 <pfps> Evan: ... what do we want to accomplish with UFD?

Evan Wallace: ... what do we want to accomplish with UFD?

15:38:08 <pfps> Evan:  I would go for reference and introduction

Evan Wallace: I would go for reference and introduction

15:38:25 <pfps> Evan: also use cases - but this is not necessarily UF

Evan Wallace: also use cases - but this is not necessarily UF

15:38:49 <bijan> I want to 1) not turn people off OWL, 2) pull people into OWL, 3) leave them unconfused on key point, 4) help them to make sound decisions

Bijan Parsia: I want to 1) not turn people off OWL, 2) pull people into OWL, 3) leave them unconfused on key point, 4) help them to make sound decisions

15:38:50 <pfps> Evan: Primer is better introduction than Overview + Guide

Evan Wallace: Primer is better introduction than Overview + Guide

15:39:28 <pfps> Alan: to meet charter we need to show that our documents meet the goals

Alan Ruttenberg: to meet charter we need to show that our documents meet the goals

15:39:59 <pfps> Bijan: what is needed - better replacements for old docs or meeting the deliverables

Bijan Parsia: what is needed - better replacements for old docs or meeting the deliverables

15:40:11 <pfps> Conrad: want intro & reference

Conrad Bock: want intro & reference

15:40:23 <pfps> Conrad: also want guide

Conrad Bock: also want guide

15:40:38 <pfps> Conrad: upgrading existing makes more sense

Conrad Bock: upgrading existing makes more sense

15:41:04 <pfps> Conrad: want to draw in software community into OWL - so emphasize differences

Conrad Bock: want to draw in software community into OWL - so emphasize differences

15:41:14 <bijan> +1 to pulling in software folks and making them unerstand how OWL is different

Bijan Parsia: +1 to pulling in software folks and making them unerstand how OWL is different

15:41:51 <pfps> Conrad: guide is longer (and reference is also)

Conrad Bock: guide is longer (and reference is also)

15:42:40 <pfps> Alan: primer is a slightly longer document

Alan Ruttenberg: primer is a slightly longer document

15:43:17 <pfps> Bijan: length per se is not the goal

Bijan Parsia: length per se is not the goal

15:43:35 <dlm> possibly consider comprehensive as a replacement for longer

Deborah McGuinness: possibly consider comprehensive as a replacement for longer

15:44:48 <pfps> Conrad: different readers - "executives", ... - need different levels of explanation

Conrad Bock: different readers - "executives", ... - need different levels of explanation

15:45:00 <alanr_> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

15:45:07 <dlm> +q

Deborah McGuinness: +q

15:45:20 <pfps> Bijan: what about comprehensiveness

Bijan Parsia: what about comprehensiveness

15:46:21 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

15:46:22 <pfps> Deborah: users search in guide for constructors

Deborah McGuinness: users search in guide for constructors

15:46:41 <alanr_> ack dlm

Alan Ruttenberg: ack dlm

15:46:45 <alanr_> ack bijan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan

15:47:00 <pfps> Bijan: users use guide as reference?

Bijan Parsia: users use guide as reference?

15:47:05 <alanr_> +1 - sounds like deb description is reference

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 - sounds like deb description is reference

15:47:17 <pfps> Bijan: if reference was better organized then it might serve the same purpose

Bijan Parsia: if reference was better organized then it might serve the same purpose

15:47:50 <alanr_> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

15:47:58 <pfps> Deborah: users use guide as [cookbook] when they can't hack the references

Deborah McGuinness: users use guide as [cookbook] when they can't hack the references

15:48:05 <IanH> q+

Ian Horrocks: q+

15:48:29 <pfps> Deborah: that's why I agree that there is a tension between overview and guide

Deborah McGuinness: that's why I agree that there is a tension between overview and guide

15:48:49 <pfps> Deborah: I thought that primer would be comprehensive for constructors

Deborah McGuinness: I thought that primer would be comprehensive for constructors

15:48:50 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

15:48:51 <pfps> q+

q+

15:48:59 <alanr_> ack alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr

15:49:25 <bijan> +1

Bijan Parsia: +1

15:49:43 <pfps> Alan: comprehensiveness in tension with narrative?

Alan Ruttenberg: comprehensiveness in tension with narrative?

15:50:02 <pfps> Ian: only 10 minutes left ...................................................................

Ian Horrocks: only 10 minutes left ...................................................................

15:50:28 <pfps> Ian: did Deborah say that Primer could replace Guide

Ian Horrocks: did Deborah say that Primer could replace Guide

15:50:34 <alanr_> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

15:50:40 <alanr_> ack IanH

Alan Ruttenberg: ack IanH

15:50:53 <pfps> Deborah: if it was constructor comprehensive

Deborah McGuinness: if it was constructor comprehensive

15:51:20 <pfps> Ian: is there an agreement that Primer could replace Guide?

Ian Horrocks: is there an agreement that Primer could replace Guide?

15:51:42 <pfps> Deborah: yes - but also think about wine agent

Deborah McGuinness: yes - but also think about wine agent

15:51:58 <alanr_> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

15:52:13 <pfps> Conrad: i didn't use guide

Conrad Bock: i didn't use guide

15:52:23 <alanr_> q+ alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ alanr

15:52:51 <pfps> Bijan: does guide have to be a reference as well?

Bijan Parsia: does guide have to be a reference as well?

15:53:21 <pfps> BIjan: let's not end up with more documents (in rec track)

Bijan Parsia: let's not end up with more documents (in rec track)

15:53:49 <IanH> That seems reasonable. Where would the primer fit into that?

Ian Horrocks: That seems reasonable. Where would the primer fit into that?

15:54:23 <pfps> Peter: primer is already almost constructor comprehensive

Scribe problem: the name 'Peter' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Peter Patel-Schneider Peter Haase . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Unknown Peter: primer is already almost constructor comprehensive

15:55:25 <dlm> can we also separate this as a potential replacement for the overview?

Deborah McGuinness: can we also separate this as a potential replacement for the overview?

15:55:31 <pfps> Alan: Primer can overtake guide if constructor comprehensive

Alan Ruttenberg: Primer can overtake guide if constructor comprehensive

15:55:40 <IanH> can try

Ian Horrocks: can try

15:56:14 <IanH> Proposal: primer could become a replacement for the guide modulo a few concerns

PROPOSED: primer could become a replacement for the guide modulo a few concerns

15:56:18 <bijan> +1

Bijan Parsia: +1

15:56:20 <IanH> zakim, unmute me

Ian Horrocks: zakim, unmute me

15:56:20 <Zakim> IanH should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: IanH should no longer be muted

15:57:30 <alanr_> Proposal+: Going primer does not yet settle exclusive authorship/editorship

Alan Ruttenberg: Proposal+: Going primer does not yet settle exclusive authorship/editorship

15:57:31 <pfps> Alan: hang on please

Alan Ruttenberg: hang on please

15:58:34 <bijan> +1

Bijan Parsia: +1

15:58:37 <pfps> two proposals?

two proposals?

15:58:44 <ewallace> +1

Evan Wallace: +1

15:58:47 <IanH> +1

Ian Horrocks: +1

15:58:51 <dlm> with the agreement that we are only discussing the guide (and not the overview) +1

Deborah McGuinness: with the agreement that we are only discussing the guide (and not the overview) +1

15:58:58 <pfps> +1

+1

15:59:10 <alanr_> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1

15:59:30 <Conrad> 0

Conrad Bock: 0

15:59:43 <alanr_> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here?

15:59:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see Conrad, Evan_Wallace, pfps, ??P1, Deb, bijan, IanH

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Conrad, Evan_Wallace, pfps, ??P1, Deb, bijan, IanH

15:59:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see dlm, bijan, Zakim, RRSAgent, Elisa, Conrad, pfps, ewallace, alanr_, IanH, jar, sandro, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see dlm, bijan, Zakim, RRSAgent, Elisa, Conrad, pfps, ewallace, alanr_, IanH, jar, sandro, trackbot-ng

16:00:50 <pfps> separate mailing lists are against W3C policy,  I think

separate mailing lists are against W3C policy, I think

16:00:52 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: -Evan_Wallace

16:01:04 <Zakim> -bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan

16:01:05 <Zakim> -Deb

Zakim IRC Bot: -Deb

16:01:06 <Zakim> -Conrad

Zakim IRC Bot: -Conrad

16:01:06 <IanH> bye

Ian Horrocks: bye

16:01:11 <Zakim> -IanH

Zakim IRC Bot: -IanH

16:01:16 <Zakim> -pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps

16:01:33 <alanr_> rrsagent, draft minutes

Alan Ruttenberg: rrsagent, draft minutes

16:01:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/28-owl-minutes.html alanr_

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/28-owl-minutes.html alanr_

16:01:47 <alanr_> rrsagent, make logs world readable

Alan Ruttenberg: rrsagent, make logs world readable

16:01:47 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make logs world readable', alanr_.  Try /msg RRSAgent help

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I'm logging. I don't understand 'make logs world readable', alanr_. Try /msg RRSAgent help

16:01:56 <alanr_> rrsagent, make log world-readable

Alan Ruttenberg: rrsagent, make log world-readable

16:01:57 <pfps> how do we make the minutes accessible?

how do we make the minutes accessible?

16:02:11 <alanr_> I think I just did it. hang on let me check

Alan Ruttenberg: I think I just did it. hang on let me check

16:03:13 <alanr_> nope, but might be slow.

Alan Ruttenberg: nope, but might be slow.

16:03:28 <alanr_> rrsagent, bookmark

Alan Ruttenberg: rrsagent, bookmark

16:03:28 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/01/28-owl-irc#T16-03-28

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/01/28-owl-irc#T16-03-28

16:03:59 <alanr_> peter, at a minimum, the raw log is visible now

Alan Ruttenberg: peter, at a minimum, the raw log is visible now

16:04:11 <alanr_> rrsagent, make minutes world-readable

Alan Ruttenberg: rrsagent, make minutes world-readable

16:04:11 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world-readable', alanr_.  Try /msg RRSAgent help

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world-readable', alanr_. Try /msg RRSAgent help

16:04:26 <alanr_> erg. I'll figure it out - have to check notes

Alan Ruttenberg: erg. I'll figure it out - have to check notes

16:04:42 <alanr_> again, thanks for scribing!

Alan Ruttenberg: again, thanks for scribing!

16:05:01 <pfps> rrsagent, create the minutes

rrsagent, create the minutes

16:05:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/28-owl-minutes.html pfps

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/28-owl-minutes.html pfps

16:05:10 <Zakim> -??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P1

16:05:11 <Zakim> SW_OWL()10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()10:00AM has ended

16:05:12 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.301.975.aaaa, Evan_Wallace, Elisa_Kendall, +1.518.608.aabb, IanH, pfps, Conrad, Deb, bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +1.301.975.aaaa, Evan_Wallace, Elisa_Kendall, +1.518.608.aabb, IanH, pfps, Conrad, Deb, bijan

16:05:46 <alanr_> ok, we're good

Alan Ruttenberg: ok, we're good

16:06:28 <bijan> sandro, I believe

Bijan Parsia: sandro, I believe

16:06:46 <pfps> who bells this cat?

who bells this cat?

16:07:53 <sandro> I think you either type them in yourself, or you send me bribes.

Sandro Hawke: I think you either type them in yourself, or you send me bribes.

16:08:14 <pfps> from RRSAGENT?

from RRSAGENT?

16:08:27 <sandro> RRSAgent, make minutes

Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, make minutes

16:08:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/28-owl-minutes.html sandro

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/28-owl-minutes.html sandro

16:08:54 <sandro> if you want them converted to wiki format, I need to do some stuff by hand, that's all.

Sandro Hawke: if you want them converted to wiki format, I need to do some stuff by hand, that's all.

16:09:06 <Conrad> bye

Conrad Bock: bye

16:09:09 <pfps> OK, please do so

OK, please do so

16:09:29 <pfps> you can have my eternal gratitude for the next 15 minutes

you can have my eternal gratitude for the next 15 minutes

16:09:31 <sandro> Can you enter a clean "Present: ...." line?    If you know who was here.....

Sandro Hawke: Can you enter a clean "Present: ...." line? If you know who was here.....

16:10:05 <sandro> Can you make me a kayak in 15 minutes?

Sandro Hawke: Can you make me a kayak in 15 minutes?

16:12:02 <pfps> I can make you a kayak picture in 15 minutes.  :-)

I can make you a kayak picture in 15 minutes. :-)

16:12:10 <sandro> sigh.

Sandro Hawke: sigh.

16:13:02 <pfps> Present: Elisa, Conrad, pfps, ewallace, alanr, IanH, jar, sandro, Deborah
16:13:05 <sandro> what URL for the page?

Sandro Hawke: what URL for the page?

16:13:13 <bijan> And me?

Scribe problem: the name 'bijan' does not match any of the 12 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Elisa Kendall Conrad Bock Peter Patel-Schneider Evan Wallace Alan Ruttenberg Ian Horrocks Jonathan Rees Sandro Hawke Deborah McGuinness Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'bijan' does not match any of the 12 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Elisa Kendall Conrad Bock Peter Patel-Schneider Evan Wallace Alan Ruttenberg Ian Horrocks Jonathan Rees Sandro Hawke Deborah McGuinness Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown bijan: And me?

16:13:29 <sandro> Present: Elisa, Conrad, pfps, ewallace, alanr, IanH, jar, sandro, Deborah, Bijan
16:13:29 <bijan> I was late but present

Bijan Parsia: I was late but present

16:13:31 <pfps> Present: Elisa, Conrad, pfps, ewallace, alanr, IanH, jar, sandro, Deborah, bijan
16:14:01 <pfps> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/UFDTF/Minutes.2008.01.28

http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/UFDTF/Minutes.2008.01.28

16:15:20 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/UFDTF/Minutes.2008.01.28 done

Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/UFDTF/Minutes.2008.01.28 done

16:15:43 <pfps> thanks

thanks



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