Meeting Record

OWL Working Group

Minutes of 16 January 2008

Present

Bijan Parsia, Ivan Herman, Alan Ruttenberg, Peter Patel-Schneider, Sandro Hawke, Ian Horrocks, Michael Smith, Boris Motik, Martin Dzbor, Unknown Carsten, Doug Lenat, Bernardo Cuenca Grau, Achille Fokoue, Jeremy Carroll, Zhe Wu

Scribe

Martin Dzbor

IRC Log

Original

Resolutions

Accept Manchester mintues subject to clean-up and finalization link
Accept F2F1 minutes with presentation links being added later link
close (as REJECTED) Issue 73 (Should owl:Thing be necessarily infinite?) as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0059.html link
close (as RESOLVED) Issue 74 (Use the xsd namespace for the facet names) as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0050.html link

Topics

agenda amendments
Pending review actions
overdue actions
Proposals to resove issues
Discussion, Blank nodes and Skolems (issue 3)
Issues
discussion on issue 51 (quick)
AOB

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17:58:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-owl-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-owl-irc ←

17:58:46 <bijan> zakim, who's here?

Bijan Parsia: zakim, who's here? ←

17:58:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P11, +1.212.239.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P11, +1.212.239.aaaa ←

17:58:47 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, bijan, Carsten, IanH, sandro, alanr, pfps, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, bijan, Carsten, IanH, sandro, alanr, pfps, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng ←

17:58:56 <alanr> zakim, aaaa is me

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, aaaa is me ←

17:58:56 <Zakim> +alanr; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +alanr; got it ←

17:58:57 <bijan> zakim, ??P11 is me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, ??P11 is me ←

17:58:58 <Zakim> +bijan; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan; got it ←

17:59:01 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←

17:59:01 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←

17:59:03 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←

17:59:10 <Zakim> -alanr

Zakim IRC Bot: -alanr ←

17:59:17 <ivan> zakim, who is here?

Ivan Herman: zakim, who is here? ←

17:59:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan, Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan, Ivan ←

17:59:19 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?

Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, pointer? ←

17:59:19 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-owl-irc#T17-59-19

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-owl-irc#T17-59-19 ←

17:59:23 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

17:59:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see msmith, RRSAgent, Zakim, bijan, Carsten, IanH, sandro, alanr, pfps, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see msmith, RRSAgent, Zakim, bijan, Carsten, IanH, sandro, alanr, pfps, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng ←

17:59:31 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

17:59:41 <Zakim> +alanr

Zakim IRC Bot: +alanr ←

17:59:43 <Zakim> +??P13

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13 ←

17:59:48 <pfps> zakim, ??p13 is me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, ??p13 is me ←

17:59:53 <Zakim> +pfps; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it ←

17:59:59 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←

18:00:05 <Zakim> + +8652aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +8652aabb ←

18:00:06 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

18:00:21 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←

18:00:22 <IanH> zakim, aabb is me

Ian Horrocks: zakim, aabb is me ←

18:00:36 <Zakim> + +1.202.408.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.202.408.aacc ←

18:00:41 <Zakim> +??P21

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21 ←

18:00:42 <Zakim> +IanH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +IanH; got it ←

18:00:46 <Zakim> + +9082aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +9082aadd ←

18:00:58 <Zakim> +??P8

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8 ←

18:01:05 <alanr> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here? ←

18:01:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Ivan, alanr, pfps (muted), Sandro, IanH, msmith, ??P21, +9082aadd, ??P8

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Ivan, alanr, pfps (muted), Sandro, IanH, msmith, ??P21, +9082aadd, ??P8 ←

18:01:06 <MartinD> zakim, aadd is me

Martin Dzbor: zakim, aadd is me ←

18:01:06 <bcuencag> zakim ??P18 is me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: zakim ??P18 is me ←

18:01:08 <Zakim> +MartinD; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MartinD; got it ←

18:01:10 <Zakim> On IRC I see bcuencag, bmotik, msmith, RRSAgent, Zakim, bijan, Carsten, IanH, sandro, alanr, pfps, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see bcuencag, bmotik, msmith, RRSAgent, Zakim, bijan, Carsten, IanH, sandro, alanr, pfps, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng ←

18:01:10 <bmotik> Zakim, ??P21 is me

Boris Motik: Zakim, ??P21 is me ←

18:01:10 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it ←

18:01:19 <bcuencag> zakim, ??P18 is me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: zakim, ??P18 is me ←

18:01:19 <Zakim> I already had ??P18 as Sandro, bcuencag

Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P18 as Sandro, bcuencag ←

18:01:37 <MartinD> zakim, mute me

Martin Dzbor: zakim, mute me ←

18:01:37 <Zakim> MartinD should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MartinD should now be muted ←

18:02:03 <bcuencag> Zakim, +9082aadd is me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, +9082aadd is me ←

18:02:03 <Zakim> sorry, bcuencag, I do not recognize a party named '+9082aadd'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, bcuencag, I do not recognize a party named '+9082aadd' ←

18:02:13 <Zakim> -??P8

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P8 ←

18:02:17 <Zakim> + +49.351.4.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +49.351.4.aaee ←

18:02:34 <sandro> q- bmotik

Sandro Hawke: q- bmotik ←

18:02:35 <Carsten> zakim, aaee is me

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: zakim, aaee is me ←

18:02:35 <Zakim> +Carsten; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Carsten; got it ←

18:02:35 <bijan> q-

Bijan Parsia: q- ←

18:02:35 <MartinD> zakim, +9082aadd is me

Martin Dzbor: zakim, +9082aadd is me ←

18:02:36 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←

18:02:37 <Zakim> sorry, MartinD, I do not recognize a party named '+9082aadd'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, MartinD, I do not recognize a party named '+9082aadd' ←

18:02:38 <Zakim> +DougL

Zakim IRC Bot: +DougL ←

18:02:41 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←

18:02:42 <Carsten> zakim, mute me

Unknown Carsten: zakim, mute me ←

18:02:42 <Zakim> Carsten should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Carsten should now be muted ←

18:02:42 <bijan> q- bmotik

Bijan Parsia: q- bmotik ←

18:02:48 <Zakim> + +018652aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: + +018652aaff ←

18:03:37 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the call? ←

18:03:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Ivan, alanr, pfps (muted), Sandro, IanH, msmith, bmotik (muted), MartinD (muted), Carsten (muted), DougL, +018652aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Ivan, alanr, pfps (muted), Sandro, IanH, msmith, bmotik (muted), MartinD (muted), Carsten (muted), DougL, +018652aaff ←

18:03:41 <pfps> I put issue-93 into play

Peter Patel-Schneider: I put ISSUE-93 into play ←

18:03:46 <MartinD> +01865 is a UK number, bernardo, so might be yours?

Martin Dzbor: +01865 is a UK number, bernardo, so might be yours? ←

18:03:48 <Zakim> +[IBM]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM] ←

18:03:53 <bcuencag> yes

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: yes ←

18:04:01 <bcuencag> but zakim didn't see me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: but zakim didn't see me ←

18:04:06 <sandro> Zakim, aaff is bcuencag

Sandro Hawke: Zakim, aaff is bcuencag ←

18:04:06 <Zakim> +bcuencag; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bcuencag; got it ←

18:04:09 <Achille> Zakim, IBM is Achille

Achille Fokoue: Zakim, IBM is Achille ←

18:04:09 <Zakim> +Achille; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Achille; got it ←

18:04:23 <Zakim> +??P24

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P24 ←

18:04:35 <ivan> zakim, ??P24 is jeremy

Ivan Herman: zakim, ??P24 is jeremy ←

18:04:35 <Zakim> +jeremy; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jeremy; got it ←

18:04:36 <sandro> zakim, ??P24 is Jeremy

Sandro Hawke: zakim, ??P24 is Jeremy ←

18:04:36 <Zakim> I already had ??P24 as jeremy, sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P24 as jeremy, sandro ←

18:05:09 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the call? ←

18:05:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Ivan, alanr, pfps (muted), Sandro, IanH, msmith, bmotik (muted), MartinD (muted), Carsten (muted), DougL, bcuencag, Achille, jeremy (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Ivan, alanr, pfps (muted), Sandro, IanH, msmith, bmotik (muted), MartinD (muted), Carsten (muted), DougL, bcuencag, Achille, jeremy (muted) ←

18:05:35 <MartinD> so, shoould i be typing?

Martin Dzbor: so, shoould i be typing? ←

18:06:12 <bcuencag> zakim, mute me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: zakim, mute me ←

18:06:12 <Zakim> bcuencag should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencag should now be muted ←

18:06:12 <MartinD> ian, I can do it (martin) = and I am not around next week

Martin Dzbor: ian, I can do it (martin) = and I am not around next week ←

18:06:19 <sandro> Present: Bijan, Ivan, alanr, pfps, Sandro, IanH, msmith, bmotik, MartinD, Carsten, DougL, bcuencag, Achille, jeremy

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu

18:06:43 <sandro> scribenick: MartinD

(Scribe set to Martin Dzbor)

18:06:50 <MartinD> I guess I am fairly to the top

I guess I am fairly to the top ←

18:07:02 <MartinD> scribenick: MartinD

18:07:04 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aagg ←

18:07:17 <MartinD> Topic: agenda amendments

1. agenda amendments

18:07:29 <bijan> If there's primer or restructuring comments I'd love to hear them

Bijan Parsia: If there's primer or restructuring comments I'd love to hear them ←

18:07:31 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ ←

18:07:32 <MartinD> Ian: set this scribing business up on mailing list

Ian Horrocks: set this scribing business up on mailing list ←

18:07:33 <bijan> as an agenda amendments

Bijan Parsia: as an agenda amendments ←

18:07:35 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←

18:07:38 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←

18:07:43 <pfps> -1, and I read them

Peter Patel-Schneider: -1, and I read them ←

18:07:45 <Achille> +1

Achille Fokoue: +1 ←

18:07:57 <MartinD> PROPOSED: accept last week's minutes

PROPOSED: accept last week's minutes ←

18:08:16 <bijan> Aren't Wikis fun

Bijan Parsia: Aren't Wikis fun ←

18:08:16 <bijan> Bullwinkle: Watch me pull a rabbit out of this hat!

Scribe problem: the name 'Bullwinkle' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Bullwinkle: Watch me pull a rabbit out of this hat! [ Scribe Assist by Bijan Parsia ] ←

18:08:16 <bijan> Rocky: Bullwinkle, that trick never works!

Scribe problem: the name 'Rocky' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Rocky: Bullwinkle, that trick never works! [ Scribe Assist by Bijan Parsia ] ←

18:08:16 <bijan> Bullwinkle: I gotta get me a new hat!

Unknown Bullwinkle: I gotta get me a new hat! [ Scribe Assist by Bijan Parsia ] ←

18:08:18 <jjc> q-

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: q- ←

18:08:22 <jjc> q- jeremy

Unknown jjc: q- jeremy ←

18:08:31 <MartinD> Ian: do the minutes need more cleaning up?

Ian Horrocks: do the minutes need more cleaning up? ←

18:08:33 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q- ←

18:08:37 <bijan> Jim

Bijan Parsia: Jim ←

18:08:41 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

18:08:41 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←

18:08:41 <MartinD> +1 (accept)

+1 (accept) ←

18:08:52 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the call? ←

18:08:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Ivan, alanr, pfps (muted), Sandro, IanH, msmith, bmotik (muted), MartinD (muted), Carsten (muted), DougL, bcuencag (muted), Achille, jeremy

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Ivan, alanr, pfps (muted), Sandro, IanH, msmith, bmotik (muted), MartinD (muted), Carsten (muted), DougL, bcuencag (muted), Achille, jeremy ←

18:08:55 <Zakim> ... (muted), +1.603.897.aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: ... (muted), +1.603.897.aagg ←

18:09:01 <MartinD> Ian: let's put it off until next week, ask Jim to clean it up

Ian Horrocks: let's put it off until next week, ask Jim to clean it up ←

18:09:19 <Zakim> +??P27

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P27 ←

18:09:27 <pfps> still missing pointers to talks in F2F minutes

Peter Patel-Schneider: still missing pointers to talks in F2F minutes ←

18:09:30 <Zhe> zakim, ??P27 is me

Scribe problem: the name 'Zhe' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Zhe: zakim, ??P27 is me ←

18:09:30 <Zakim> +Zhe; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe; got it ←

18:09:33 <MartinD> Ian, are the minutes accepted = resolved??

Ian, are the minutes accepted = resolved?? ←

18:10:18 <MartinD> PROPOSED: Manchester minutes are also postponed for later

PROPOSED: Manchester minutes are also postponed for later ←

18:10:22 <alanr> action: Alan to add links to presentations to F2F minutes

ACTION: Alan to add links to presentations to F2F minutes ←

18:10:22 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-66 - Add links to presentations to F2F minutes [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-01-23].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-66 - Add links to presentations to F2F minutes [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-01-23]. ←

18:10:24 <pfps> +0

Peter Patel-Schneider: +0 ←

18:10:26 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1 ←

18:10:28 <JeffP> zakim, who is here?

Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown JeffP: zakim, who is here? ←

18:10:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Ivan, alanr, pfps (muted), Sandro, IanH, msmith, bmotik (muted), MartinD (muted), Carsten (muted), DougL, bcuencag (muted), Achille, jeremy

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Ivan, alanr, pfps (muted), Sandro, IanH, msmith, bmotik (muted), MartinD (muted), Carsten (muted), DougL, bcuencag (muted), Achille, jeremy ←

18:10:28 <bijan> Perhaps some other volunteer to help with thte F2f minutes?

Bijan Parsia: Perhaps some other volunteer to help with thte F2f minutes? ←

18:10:31 <Zakim> ... (muted), +1.603.897.aagg, Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: ... (muted), +1.603.897.aagg, Zhe ←

18:10:32 <bijan> Alan alraedy has to do a lot

Bijan Parsia: Alan alraedy has to do a lot ←

18:10:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see JeffP, jeremy, Zhe, Achille, DougL, bcuencag, bmotik, msmith, RRSAgent, Zakim, bijan, Carsten, IanH, sandro, alanr, pfps, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see JeffP, jeremy, Zhe, Achille, DougL, bcuencag, bmotik, msmith, RRSAgent, Zakim, bijan, Carsten, IanH, sandro, alanr, pfps, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng ←

18:10:42 <pfps> +0

Peter Patel-Schneider: +0 ←

18:10:47 <sandro> PROPOSED: Accept F2F1 minutes with presentation links being added later

PROPOSED: Accept F2F1 minutes with presentation links being added later ←

18:10:47 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←

18:10:47 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←

18:11:00 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

18:11:00 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←

18:11:04 <sandro> +1 accept minutes

Sandro Hawke: +1 accept minutes ←

18:11:06 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+ ←

18:11:08 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1 ←

18:11:09 <jeremy> +0

Jeremy Carroll: +0 ←

18:11:11 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

18:11:11 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←

18:11:16 <JeffP> Zhe, is +1603897.. your number?

Unknown JeffP: Zhe, is +1603897.. your number? ←

18:11:26 <Zhe> jeffp: yes

Scribe problem: the name 'jeffp' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jeffp: yes [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Zhe ] ←

18:11:29 <ivan> ack bijan

Ivan Herman: ack bijan ←

18:11:44 <JeffP> zakim, aagg is Zhe

Unknown JeffP: zakim, aagg is Zhe ←

18:11:44 <Zakim> +Zhe; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe; got it ←

18:12:14 <sandro> Present: Bijan, Ivan, alanr, pfps, Sandro, IanH, msmith, bmotik, MartinD, Carsten, DougL, bcuencag, Achille, jeremy, Zhe

18:12:16 <MartinD> Alan: links and presentations were communicate via mailing list

Alan Ruttenberg: links and presentations were communicate via mailing list ←

18:12:21 <JeffP> zakim, ??P27 is me

Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown JeffP: zakim, ??P27 is me ←

18:12:22 <Zakim> I already had ??P27 as Zhe, JeffP

Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P27 as Zhe, JeffP ←

18:12:47 <jeremy> Zakim, Zhe is really JeffP

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, Zhe is really JeffP ←

18:12:49 <Zakim> +JeffP; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +JeffP; got it ←

18:12:49 <alanr> s/-;)/;-)/

Alan Ruttenberg: s/-;)/;-)/ (warning: replacement failed) ←

18:12:58 <JeffP> jeremy, thanks!

Unknown JeffP: jeremy, thanks! ←

18:13:00 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

18:13:01 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

18:13:08 <Zakim> -Zhe.a

Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe.a ←

18:13:40 <MartinD> RESOLVED: Accept Manchester mintues subject to clean-up and finalization

RESOLVED: Accept Manchester mintues subject to clean-up and finalization ←

18:13:41 <Zakim> +Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe ←

18:13:50 <sandro> PROPOSED: Accept F2F1 minutes with presentation links being added later

PROPOSED: Accept F2F1 minutes with presentation links being added later ←

18:14:15 <sandro> RESOLVED: Accept F2F1 minutes with presentation links being added later

RESOLVED: Accept F2F1 minutes with presentation links being added later ←

18:14:16 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←

18:14:20 <pfps> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 ←

18:14:21 <bijan> +1

Bijan Parsia: +1 ←

18:14:25 <jeremy> My presentation is linked from some minutes (may be last weeks) I will find the link and post again

Jeremy Carroll: My presentation is linked from some minutes (may be last weeks) I will find the link and post again ←

18:14:35 <MartinD> Topic: Pending review actions

2. Pending review actions

18:14:45 <MartinD> Ian: most are in a good shape

Ian Horrocks: most are in a good shape ←

18:14:47 <pfps> all pending review actions look OK

Peter Patel-Schneider: all pending review actions look OK ←

18:14:48 <bijan> yes

Bijan Parsia: yes ←

18:14:55 <MartinD> Ian: Bijan has completed his action

Ian Horrocks: Bijan has completed his action ←

18:14:58 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

18:14:58 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←

18:15:32 <MartinD> Bijan: three actions concluded, scenario is under control...

Bijan Parsia: three actions concluded, scenario is under control... ←

18:15:42 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

18:15:42 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

18:15:45 <MartinD> Ian: action for Jeremy, also completed?

Ian Horrocks: action for Jeremy, also completed? ←

18:15:49 <jeremy> Zakim, unmute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, unmute me ←

18:15:49 <Zakim> jeremy should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should no longer be muted ←

18:15:55 <jeremy> Zakim, mute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, mute me ←

18:15:55 <Zakim> jeremy should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should now be muted ←

18:16:19 <jeremy> Zakim, unmute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, unmute me ←

18:16:19 <Zakim> jeremy should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should no longer be muted ←

18:16:24 <MartinD> Ian: actions were completed adequetaly, so are there any problems with them?

Ian Horrocks: actions were completed adequetaly, so are there any problems with them? ←

18:16:52 <MartinD> ?: what we need to the with these actions pending review?

?: what we need to the with these actions pending review? ←

18:18:13 <MartinD> Topic: overdue actions

3. overdue actions

18:18:40 <jeremy> My slides http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Dec/att-0097/dl-and-full.pdf

Jeremy Carroll: My slides http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Dec/att-0097/dl-and-full.pdf ←

18:18:41 <MartinD> Sandro: working on action 43, in progress... no specific date yet

Sandro Hawke: working on ACTION-43, in progress... no specific date yet ←

18:18:57 <MartinD> Sandro: will try to fix it by Feb 5th (?)

Sandro Hawke: will try to fix it by Jan 25 (?) ←

18:19:14 <bijan> It's done

Bijan Parsia: It's done ←

18:19:18 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

18:19:18 <Zakim> bijan was already muted, bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was already muted, bijan ←

18:19:22 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

18:19:22 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←

18:19:28 <sandro> s/Feb 5th/Jan 25/

18:19:38 <MartinD> Ian: action 56 overdue is probably done -> Bijan says: has been rolled into n-ary proposal...

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-56 overdue is probably done -> Bijan says: has been rolled into n-ary proposal... ←

18:19:57 <MartinD> Bijan: action should be closed, more info to be circulated this week

Bijan Parsia: action should be closed, more info to be circulated this week ←

18:20:10 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

18:21:01 <alanr> k

Alan Ruttenberg: k ←

18:21:08 <MartinD> Topic: Proposals to resove issues

4. Proposals to resove issues

18:21:15 <mschnei> hi there, am I finally in?

Scribe problem: the name 'mschnei' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown mschnei: hi there, am I finally in? ←

18:21:24 <MartinD> PROPOSED: Issue 29 (datatype vs. data range)

PROPOSED: ISSUE-29 (datatype vs. data range) ←

18:21:41 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←

18:21:41 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←

18:21:46 <MartinD> Ian: peter refreshes what proposal is about

Ian Horrocks: peter refreshes what proposal is about ←

18:22:09 <mschnei> god thanks ;-)

Unknown mschnei: god thanks ;-) ←

18:22:21 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

18:22:21 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

18:22:32 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

18:22:32 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←

18:22:37 <jeremy> q+

Jeremy Carroll: q+ ←

18:22:41 <msmith> q+ to ask about point 4

Michael Smith: q+ to ask about point 4 ←

18:22:46 <jeremy> Zakim, unmute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, unmute me ←

18:22:46 <Zakim> jeremy should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should no longer be muted ←

18:22:56 <ivan> ack jeremy

Ivan Herman: ack jeremy ←

18:22:57 <bmotik> I didn't understand: has this been already implemented in the documents?

Boris Motik: I didn't understand: has this been already implemented in the documents? ←

18:22:58 <MartinD> PFPS: proposal is to move to rdf data type, we checked rdf semantics, datarange is deprecated

Peter Patel-Schneider: proposal is to move to rdf data type, we checked rdf semantics, datarange is deprecated ←

18:23:06 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←

18:23:43 <pfps> PROPOSED; ISSUE-29 move from owl:Datarange to rdfs:Datatype

Peter Patel-Schneider: PROPOSED; ISSUE-29 move from owl:Datarange to rdfs:Datatype ←

18:23:50 <MartinD> Jeremy: we use data range before, we may want to think about the past use

Jeremy Carroll: we use data range before, we may want to think about the past use ←

18:23:57 <pfps> Hmm, I think that Jeremy's point needs thought

Peter Patel-Schneider: Hmm, I think that Jeremy's point needs thought ←

18:23:58 <MartinD> Jeremy: only noticed now

Jeremy Carroll: only noticed now ←

18:24:07 <jeremy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0147

Jeremy Carroll: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0147 ←

18:24:12 <msmith> q-

Michael Smith: q- ←

18:24:17 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

18:24:17 <Zakim> pfps was already muted, pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was already muted, pfps ←

18:24:18 <JeffP> +1

Unknown JeffP: +1 ←

18:24:32 <jeremy> Zakim, mute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, mute me ←

18:24:32 <Zakim> jeremy should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should now be muted ←

18:24:43 <MartinD> Issue 73: owl:thing being infinte

ISSUE-73: owl:thing being infinte ←

18:24:50 <pfps> +1 to reject 73

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to reject 73 ←

18:24:51 <alanr> I raised issue and concur on rejection

Alan Ruttenberg: I raised issue and concur on rejection ←

18:24:53 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←

18:24:56 <bijan> +1 to reject 73

Bijan Parsia: +1 to reject 73 ←

18:24:58 <MartinD> Ian: this seems to be unanimous, people agree to reject

Ian Horrocks: this seems to be unanimous, people agree to reject ←

18:25:02 <IanH> PROPOSED: close (as REJECTED) Issue 73 (Should owl:Thing be necessarily infinite?) as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0059.html

PROPOSED: close (as REJECTED) ISSUE-73 (Should owl:Thing be necessarily infinite?) as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0059.html ←

18:25:04 <jeremy> -1

Jeremy Carroll: -1 ←

18:25:11 <msmith> +1 to close as rejected ISSUE-73

Michael Smith: +1 to close as rejected ISSUE-73 ←

18:25:15 <jeremy> Zakim, unmute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, unmute me ←

18:25:15 <Zakim> jeremy should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should no longer be muted ←

18:25:17 <Achille> +1 to close

Achille Fokoue: +1 to close ←

18:25:24 <Achille> as rejected

Achille Fokoue: as rejected ←

18:25:31 <bcuencag> +1 to close as rejected

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1 to close as rejected ←

18:25:43 <Carsten> +1

Unknown Carsten: +1 ←

18:25:48 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+ ←

18:26:02 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

18:26:02 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←

18:26:03 <Zakim> +Elisa_Kendall

Zakim IRC Bot: +Elisa_Kendall ←

18:26:05 <DougL> +1

Doug Lenat: +1 ←

18:26:08 <Zhe> +1

Zhe Wu: +1 ←

18:26:16 <MartinD> Jeremy: if nobody can support Jeremy's position, Jeremy notes his opposition, but sees no point in contiunuing debate

Jeremy Carroll: if nobody can support Jeremy's position, Jeremy notes his opposition, but sees no point in contiunuing debate ←

18:26:18 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:26:19 <bmotik> +1 to close issue as rejected

Boris Motik: +1 to close issue as rejected ←

18:26:32 <MartinD> Bijan: is this an objection from HP? or the status...

Bijan Parsia: is this an objection from HP? or the status... ←

18:26:38 <sandro> Jeremy: this is NOT a formal objection.

Jeremy Carroll: this is NOT a formal objection. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

18:26:41 <MartinD> Jeremy: it's not a formal objection

Jeremy Carroll: it's not a formal objection ←

18:27:22 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

18:27:22 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

18:27:28 <sandro> Jeremy: there may be enough small problems like this, that it may total to a formal objection......

Jeremy Carroll: there may be enough small problems like this, that it may total to a formal objection...... [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

18:28:05 <MartinD> Ian: close the issue, record Jeremy/HP voting against...

Ian Horrocks: close the issue, record Jeremy/HP voting against... ←

18:28:19 <sandro> ian: ongoing discussion of this is not likely to get us to consensus.     Jeremy seems to agree with this assessment -- he just wants a "no" vote recorded.

Ian Horrocks: ongoing discussion of this is not likely to get us to consensus. Jeremy seems to agree with this assessment -- he just wants a "no" vote recorded. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

18:28:24 <IanH> +1

Ian Horrocks: +1 ←

18:28:29 <MartinD> Jeremy: maybe HP should review the vote against, but perhaps at the next publication stage

Jeremy Carroll: maybe HP should review the vote against, but perhaps at the next publication stage ←

18:28:33 <JeffP> +1

Unknown JeffP: +1 ←

18:28:33 <MartinD> +1

+1 ←

18:28:42 <ivan> 0

Ivan Herman: 0 ←

18:28:45 <sandro> 0

Sandro Hawke: 0 ←

18:28:55 <MartinD> Ian: make sure we record everybody's voice, incl. abstaining

Ian Horrocks: make sure we record everybody's voice, incl. abstaining ←

18:29:21 <IanH> RESOLVED: close (as REJECTED) Issue 73 (Should owl:Thing be necessarily infinite?) as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0059.html

RESOLVED: close (as REJECTED) ISSUE-73 (Should owl:Thing be necessarily infinite?) as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0059.html ←

18:29:54 <MartinD> Moving to issue 74, xsd facets

Moving to ISSUE-74, xsd facets ←

18:29:57 <IanH> PROPOSED: close (as RESOLVED) Issue 74 (Use the xsd namespace for the facet names) as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0050.html

PROPOSED: close (as RESOLVED) ISSUE-74 (Use the xsd namespace for the facet names) as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0050.html ←

18:30:06 <MartinD> Ian: discussed last time, everybody seems happy along the above lines

Ian Horrocks: discussed last time, everybody seems happy along the above lines ←

18:30:06 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1 ←

18:30:10 <bijan> +1

Bijan Parsia: +1 ←

18:30:10 <MartinD> Ian: quick vote

Ian Horrocks: quick vote ←

18:30:11 <pfps> +1 to resolve 74

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to resolve 74 ←

18:30:12 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←

18:30:14 <jeremy> +1

Jeremy Carroll: +1 ←

18:30:14 <Achille> +1

Achille Fokoue: +1 ←

18:30:15 <DougL> +1

Doug Lenat: +1 ←

18:30:15 <msmith> +q to ask about scope

Michael Smith: +q to ask about scope ←

18:30:17 <Zhe> +1

Zhe Wu: +1 ←

18:30:19 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:30:23 <MartinD> +1

+1 ←

18:30:27 <bijan> q-

Bijan Parsia: q- ←

18:30:29 <Elisa> +1

Scribe problem: the name 'Elisa' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Elisa: +1 ←

18:30:36 <IanH> ack bijan

Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←

18:30:41 <ivan> ack msmith

Ivan Herman: ack msmith ←

18:30:41 <Zakim> msmith, you wanted to ask about scope

Zakim IRC Bot: msmith, you wanted to ask about scope ←

18:31:25 <JeffP> +1

Unknown JeffP: +1 ←

18:31:29 <MartinD> MSmith: asking about the scope... there might be some contentious item..

Michael Smith: asking about the scope... there might be some contentious item.. ←

18:31:39 <jeremy> Clarified all A-D

Jeremy Carroll: Clarified all A-D ←

18:31:40 <MartinD> Ian: discussed last time,

Ian Horrocks: discussed last time, ←

18:31:50 <msmith> +1

Michael Smith: +1 ←

18:32:01 <IanH> RESOLVED: close (as RESOLVED) Issue 74 (Use the xsd namespace for the facet names) as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0050.html

RESOLVED: close (as RESOLVED) ISSUE-74 (Use the xsd namespace for the facet names) as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0050.html ←

18:32:46 <MartinD> Topic: Discussion, Blank nodes and Skolems (issue 3)

5. Discussion, Blank nodes and Skolems (ISSUE-3)

18:32:56 <MartinD> Ian: some discussion on the mailing list...

Ian Horrocks: some discussion on the mailing list... ←

18:32:57 <jeremy> (bijan first?)

Jeremy Carroll: (bijan first?) ←

18:33:04 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

18:33:04 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan ←

18:33:29 <MartinD> Bijan: responded to Jeremy's msg.,

Bijan Parsia: responded to Jeremy's msg., ←

18:33:58 <MartinD> Bijan: ffrom the beginnning, in owl 1.0 we could represent tree-like patterns of anonymous

Bijan Parsia: ffrom the beginnning, in owl 1.0 we could represent tree-like patterns of anonymous ←

18:34:05 <MartinD> Bijan: serialized as blank nodes

Bijan Parsia: serialized as blank nodes ←

18:34:43 <MartinD> Bijan: RDF extensionally qualifies all b-nodes, which in OWL would mean undecidability

Bijan Parsia: RDF extensionally qualifies all b-nodes, which in OWL would mean undecidability ←

18:35:13 <MartinD> Bijan: possibly have them as syntactic sugar, to handle RDF graphs as users expect

Bijan Parsia: possibly have them as syntactic sugar, to handle RDF graphs as users expect ←

18:35:34 <MartinD> Bijan: Karsten proposed a spec. role to represent true extensionals

Bijan Parsia: Karsten proposed a spec. role to represent true extensionals ←

18:35:43 <jeremy> (I'm behind on the universal prop and existentials)

Jeremy Carroll: (I'm behind on the universal prop and existentials) ←

18:35:44 <MartinD> Bijan: objections, question?

Bijan Parsia: objections, question? ←

18:35:54 <jeremy> Zakim, unmute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, unmute me ←

18:35:57 <Zakim> jeremy should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should no longer be muted ←

18:36:19 <MartinD> Jeremy: discussed issue and it's clear that many implementations use skolems...

Jeremy Carroll: discussed issue and it's clear that many implementations use skolems... ←

18:36:28 <bijan> q+ to ask about "implementation techniques"

Bijan Parsia: q+ to ask about "implementation techniques" ←

18:36:37 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:37:17 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+ ←

18:37:20 <MartinD> Jeremy: there were implementations in previous wg, that's why we defined certain checks

Jeremy Carroll: there were implementations in previous wg, that's why we defined certain checks ←

18:37:24 <pfps> q+ to talk about what the OWL 1.0 specs imply

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to talk about what the OWL 1.0 specs imply ←

18:37:41 <MartinD> Ian: is this the case that we define conformance w.r.t consistency check, not being able to tell diff

Ian Horrocks: is this the case that we define conformance w.r.t consistency check, not being able to tell diff ←

18:38:00 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:38:10 <MartinD> Jeremy: basically yes, diff parts of rdf graph correspond to dl constructs

Jeremy Carroll: basically yes, diff parts of rdf graph correspond to dl constructs ←

18:38:19 <bmotik> Jeremy, I didn't udnerstand that

Boris Motik: Jeremy, I didn't udnerstand that ←

18:38:33 <MartinD> Jeremy: b-nodes treated diff in owl-full = its semantics becomes more difficult

Jeremy Carroll: b-nodes treated diff in owl-full = its semantics becomes more difficult ←

18:38:50 <ivan> ack bijan

Ivan Herman: ack bijan ←

18:38:50 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to ask about "implementation techniques"

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to ask about "implementation techniques" ←

18:38:57 <IanH> ack bijan

Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←

18:39:34 <MartinD> Bijan: not understanding what is meant by impl. techniques, skolemization is a common one, but we're proposing something stronger, so taht some entailments hold,

Bijan Parsia: not understanding what is meant by impl. techniques, skolemization is a common one, but we're proposing something stronger, so taht some entailments hold, ←

18:40:00 <MartinD> Bijan: if we reason about abox, we recognize the items as individuals, as people expect should happen

Bijan Parsia: if we reason about abox, we recognize the items as individuals, as people expect should happen ←

18:40:16 <MartinD> Bijan: owl-full seems a bit hypothetical problem?

Bijan Parsia: owl-full seems a bit hypothetical problem? ←

18:41:03 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:41:11 <MartinD> Bijan: need to reconcile arguments that in some cases keep the old approach vs. cases that change semantics (of owl full), which could break reasoners

Bijan Parsia: need to reconcile arguments that in some cases keep the old approach vs. cases that change semantics (of owl full), which could break reasoners ←

18:41:33 <MartinD> Bijan: we're trying to bridge the gap between dl and full, at the cost of some abstract parts of the theory

Bijan Parsia: we're trying to bridge the gap between dl and full, at the cost of some abstract parts of the theory ←

18:41:38 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←

18:41:38 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←

18:41:43 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

18:41:43 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

18:41:45 <IanH> ack boris

Ian Horrocks: ack boris ←

18:41:45 <ivan> ack bmotik

Ivan Herman: ack bmotik ←

18:41:54 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q- ←

18:42:28 <MartinD> Boris: reiterating Jeremy, if we treat skolems as individuals or exist. variables, doesn't matter... as long as we maintain consistency criteria? correct?

Boris Motik: reiterating Jeremy, if we treat skolems as individuals or exist. variables, doesn't matter... as long as we maintain consistency criteria? correct? ←

18:42:59 <MartinD> Boris: we may actually strengthen this, in rdf we can have b-nodes on syntax level

Boris Motik: we may actually strengthen this, in rdf we can have b-nodes on syntax level ←

18:43:20 <alanr> can't tell the difference in owl1.0 afaik - needed negated property assertions ?

Alan Ruttenberg: can't tell the difference in owl1.0 afaik - needed negated property assertions ? ←

18:43:25 <MartinD> Boris: b--nodes in entailed ontologies?

Boris Motik: b--nodes in entailed ontologies? ←

18:43:37 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:43:39 <MartinD> Boris: treat b-nodes as existentials?

Boris Motik: treat b-nodes as existentials? ←

18:43:58 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:44:13 <MartinD> Boris: if it's on the right hand side... if it's in the graph part it's something else

Boris Motik: if it's on the right hand side... if it's in the graph part it's something else ←

18:44:40 <bijan> q+ to disagree

Bijan Parsia: q+ to disagree ←

18:45:10 <Carsten> What is the opposite of "b-bode in the data"?

Unknown Carsten: What is the opposite of "b-bode in the data"? ←

18:45:11 <MartinD> Ian: interesting thing = worried about the case when everything is skolemized, incl b-nodes?

Ian Horrocks: interesting thing = worried about the case when everything is skolemized, incl b-nodes? ←

18:45:19 <bijan> Good point by Ian....though they are alrady skolemized!

Bijan Parsia: Good point by Ian....though they are alrady skolemized! ←

18:45:31 <bijan> Carsten, tbox axioms use bnodes for syntax

Bijan Parsia: Carsten, tbox axioms use bnodes for syntax ←

18:45:45 <bmotik> q+ for Jeremy

Boris Motik: q+ for Jeremy ←

18:45:51 <bijan> e.g., C subClassOf [a restriction; onProperty P; someValuesFrom C]

Bijan Parsia: e.g., C subClassOf [a restriction; onProperty P; someValuesFrom C] ←

18:45:52 <MartinD> Jeremy: coming from owl-full impl...

Jeremy Carroll: coming from owl-full impl... ←

18:45:52 <bmotik> q- for

Boris Motik: q- for ←

18:45:53 <pfps> hmm, skolemizing syntax on the RHS would have grave consequences

Peter Patel-Schneider: hmm, skolemizing syntax on the RHS would have grave consequences ←

18:45:56 <jeremy> q-

Jeremy Carroll: q- ←

18:45:58 <Carsten> bijan: in which case does this happen?

Bijan Parsia: in which case does this happen? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Carsten ] ←

18:46:04 <bijan> the brackets are bnodes

Bijan Parsia: the brackets are bnodes ←

18:46:20 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←

18:46:22 <bijan> Carsten, pervasively...any class expression really

Bijan Parsia: Carsten, pervasively...any class expression really ←

18:46:30 <MartinD> Ian: when skolemizing individuals would cause problems... it's a thing what other people talk about?

Ian Horrocks: when skolemizing individuals would cause problems... it's a thing what other people talk about? ←

18:46:31 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:46:34 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

18:46:34 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←

18:46:45 <alanr> Jeremy: Do I understand that you are worried that Full would make non-entailments if this was adoped?

Jeremy Carroll: Do I understand that you are worried that Full would make non-entailments if this was adoped? [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←

18:47:21 <alanr> or rather without doing more work in Jena

Alan Ruttenberg: or rather without doing more work in Jena ←

18:47:31 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←

18:47:33 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←

18:47:35 <MartinD> Bijan: thought that in owl-dl there is a way of skolemizing syntax... we already use, everybody using rdf is already using those things

Bijan Parsia: thought that in owl-dl there is a way of skolemizing syntax... we already use, everybody using rdf is already using those things ←

18:47:41 <jeremy> q+ to respond to boris's question?

Jeremy Carroll: q+ to respond to boris's question? ←

18:47:44 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:47:56 <MartinD> Bijan: in SPARQL, b-nodes can in answers and can be treated as skolems...

Bijan Parsia: in SPARQL, b-nodes can in answers and can be treated as skolems... ←

18:48:14 <pfps> if you skolemize syntax, then john in >=1 C won't entail john in >=1 C in OWL Full

Peter Patel-Schneider: if you skolemize syntax, then john in >=1 C won't entail john in >=1 C in OWL Full ←

18:48:26 <MartinD> Bijan: supporting sparql syntax over ontologies, it matters a lot how we treat it

Bijan Parsia: supporting sparql syntax over ontologies, it matters a lot how we treat it ←

18:48:39 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:48:42 <MartinD> Bijan: might not be variables, just funny renaming conditions

Bijan Parsia: might not be variables, just funny renaming conditions ←

18:48:45 <alanr> ack bijan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan ←

18:48:45 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to disagree

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to disagree ←

18:48:51 <bmotik> q+ to ask a question

Boris Motik: q+ to ask a question ←

18:48:55 <MartinD> Bijan: example of rdf syntax which is highly visible and has impact

Bijan Parsia: example of rdf syntax which is highly visible and has impact ←

18:49:24 <mschnei> FZI is pro "bNodes as skolems" in /DL/

Unknown mschnei: FZI is pro "bNodes as skolems" in /DL/ ←

18:49:24 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:49:31 <IanH> ack alanr

Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←

18:50:01 <MartinD> Alan: wants to clarify = concern is because of role impl. that generates entailments in owl-full... would be incorrect if skolemization is used?

Alan Ruttenberg: wants to clarify = concern is because of role impl. that generates entailments in owl-full... would be incorrect if skolemization is used? ←

18:50:02 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

18:50:02 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

18:50:10 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:50:34 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:50:38 <MartinD> Ian: less complicate if considering skolemizatin as syntax?

Ian Horrocks: less complicate if considering skolemizatin as syntax? ←

18:50:55 <MartinD> Jeremy: answer boris... howjena treats b-nodes on the RHS

Jeremy Carroll: answer boris... howjena treats b-nodes on the RHS ←

18:51:21 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:51:25 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←

18:51:25 <Zakim> bmotik was not muted, bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik was not muted, bmotik ←

18:51:26 <MartinD> Jeremy: implemented to satisfy test cases = skolemized on the LHS, on RHS it's variables .......

Jeremy Carroll: implemented to satisfy test cases = skolemized on the LHS, on RHS it's variables ....... ←

18:51:26 <ivan> ack jeremy

Ivan Herman: ack jeremy ←

18:51:27 <bijan> really?

Bijan Parsia: really? ←

18:51:27 <Zakim> jeremy, you wanted to respond to boris's question?

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy, you wanted to respond to boris's question? ←

18:52:00 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

18:52:00 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←

18:52:03 <MartinD> Boris: why conversion of RHS in spqrql? is the diff betwen bihan's and jeremy's view in schema part?

Boris Motik: why conversion of RHS in spqrql? is the diff betwen bihan's and jeremy's view in schema part? ←

18:52:53 <MartinD> Bijan: data counts... users may work on expectation that we take RHS and LHS, maintain mapping, entail, get them back

Bijan Parsia: data counts... users may work on expectation that we take RHS and LHS, maintain mapping, entail, get them back ←

18:53:01 <MartinD> Bijan: no issue with schema part...

Bijan Parsia: no issue with schema part... ←

18:53:11 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

18:53:11 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

18:53:28 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:53:34 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←

18:53:34 <Zakim> bmotik, you wanted to ask a question

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik, you wanted to ask a question ←

18:53:35 <MartinD> Jeremy: main concern is to change underlying semantics

Jeremy Carroll: main concern is to change underlying semantics ←

18:53:47 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+ ←

18:53:59 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:54:32 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←

18:54:37 <MartinD> Jeremy:not sure how changing semantics changes classificationa apps... why change semantics?

Jeremy Carroll: not sure how changing semantics changes classificationa apps... why change semantics? ←

18:54:42 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+ ←

18:54:59 <bijan> It matters for counting

Bijan Parsia: It matters for counting ←

18:54:59 <MartinD> Ian: classification may not make entailment visible... only uses satsifability

Ian Horrocks: classification may not make entailment visible... only uses satsifability ←

18:55:10 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:55:26 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←

18:55:58 <MartinD> Boris: assume we're defining b-nodes in data as skolems... how to implement? not a matter of changing semantics doc, maybe a change for parsing doc?

Boris Motik: assume we're defining b-nodes in data as skolems... how to implement? not a matter of changing semantics doc, maybe a change for parsing doc? ←

18:56:23 <MartinD> Boris: every b-=node should be mapped onto an element of graph -> individual, etc.

Boris Motik: every b-=node should be mapped onto an element of graph -> individual, etc. ←

18:56:25 <bijan> I am happy with Boris's proposal to move it to parsing

Bijan Parsia: I am happy with Boris's proposal to move it to parsing ←

18:56:51 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:56:56 <jeremy> q+ to respond to parsing suggestion ....

Jeremy Carroll: q+ to respond to parsing suggestion .... ←

18:57:11 <MartinD> Boris: this may provide solution = on semantic level, b-nodes are existential vars, but there can be a switch to say that when parsing rdf, they should be treated as skolems> could be?

Boris Motik: this may provide solution = on semantic level, b-nodes are existential vars, but there can be a switch to say that when parsing rdf, they should be treated as skolems> could be? ←

18:57:11 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:57:13 <mschnei> boris, you have at least the testcases (normative document): you can have testcases for non-entailments for skolems, which would be entailments for existentials

Unknown mschnei: boris, you have at least the testcases (normative document): you can have testcases for non-entailments for skolems, which would be entailments for existentials ←

18:57:17 <IanH> ack alanr

Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←

18:58:00 <MartinD> Alan: how this is visible... practical reasons, removes requirement and b-node as a tree, allows more flexibility,... intended meaning in most cases is skolemization...

Alan Ruttenberg: how this is visible... practical reasons, removes requirement and b-node as a tree, allows more flexibility,... intended meaning in most cases is skolemization... ←

18:58:06 <JeffP> q+ on how to explain the difference to users

Unknown JeffP: q+ on how to explain the difference to users ←

18:58:24 <bmotik> Alan, you have inequality

Boris Motik: Alan, you have inequality ←

18:58:35 <MartinD> Alan: we don't see diff between skolems and existentials in owl 1.0... we need a negated property on individuals to see it??

Alan Ruttenberg: we don't see diff between skolems and existentials in owl 1.0... we need a negated property on individuals to see it?? ←

18:58:37 <JeffP> q+ to ask how to explain the difference to users

Unknown JeffP: q+ to ask how to explain the difference to users ←

18:58:52 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

18:58:52 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←

18:58:58 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:59:01 <ivan> ack bijan

Ivan Herman: ack bijan ←

18:59:02 <MartinD> Ian: doesn't seem to be so diff... skolemizing on RHS should be visible even in owl 1.0

Ian Horrocks: doesn't seem to be so diff... skolemizing on RHS should be visible even in owl 1.0 ←

18:59:14 <IanH> ack bijan

Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←

18:59:30 <MartinD> Bijan: agrees with alan that they are user-visible

Bijan Parsia: agrees with alan that they are user-visible ←

19:00:36 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:00:56 <MartinD> Bijan: Q to Jeremy = what means "compelling argument" for/against something? e.g. many users wanting to use rdf graphs in owl reasoners, this is a powerful case, why not compelling

Bijan Parsia: Q to Jeremy = what means "compelling argument" for/against something? e.g. many users wanting to use rdf graphs in owl reasoners, this is a powerful case, why not compelling ←

19:01:22 <MartinD> Bijan: similarly, sparql relationships, etc. = these are fairly important cases

Bijan Parsia: similarly, sparql relationships, etc. = these are fairly important cases ←

19:01:26 <jeremy> ack jeremy

Jeremy Carroll: ack jeremy ←

19:01:26 <Zakim> jeremy, you wanted to respond to parsing suggestion ....

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy, you wanted to respond to parsing suggestion .... ←

19:01:50 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:02:27 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+ ←

19:02:43 <MartinD> Jeremy: to bijan first... what I havven't seen is how reworking semantics affects skolemization, is it necesary? (???)

Jeremy Carroll: to bijan first... what I havven't seen is how reworking semantics affects skolemization, is it necesary? (???) ←

19:03:05 <bmotik> q-

Boris Motik: q- ←

19:03:09 <MartinD> Bijan: how to propose arbitrary b-nodes from rdf, what should they give/

Bijan Parsia: how to propose arbitrary b-nodes from rdf, what should they give/ ←

19:03:14 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:03:18 <MartinD> Jeremy: no answer at this point...

Jeremy Carroll: no answer at this point... ←

19:03:39 <MartinD> Jeremy: to Boris.... finding that position of a value, at this moment...

Jeremy Carroll: to Boris.... finding that position of a value, at this moment... ←

19:03:51 <MartinD> Jeremy: there is some rationale behind it

Jeremy Carroll: there is some rationale behind it ←

19:03:51 <bijan> B

Bijan Parsia: B ←

19:05:17 <MartinD> Jeff: maybe somebody can explain what this means for the users/end users... so that more people can join the debate?

Scribe problem: the name 'Jeff' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Jeff: maybe somebody can explain what this means for the users/end users... so that more people can join the debate? ←

19:05:18 <alanr> q+ to say fwiw, it's always harder to explain existential semantics in my experience

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to say fwiw, it's always harder to explain existential semantics in my experience ←

19:05:34 <DougL> (And do that between now and next week, offline, and revisit it next week?)

Doug Lenat: (And do that between now and next week, offline, and revisit it next week?) ←

19:05:36 <MartinD> Ian: lot of explanation of this, maybe a bit technical...

Ian Horrocks: lot of explanation of this, maybe a bit technical... ←

19:05:49 <bijan> Basically, jeremy, any way that tells me how to handle in an rdf sensible way arbitrary patterns of bnodes meets my interest in this

Bijan Parsia: Basically, jeremy, any way that tells me how to handle in an rdf sensible way arbitrary patterns of bnodes meets my interest in this ←

19:05:53 <MartinD> Jeff: if people write owl 1.1 axioms, what are the key diffs for THEM

Unknown Jeff: if people write owl 1.1 axioms, what are the key diffs for THEM ←

19:05:57 <bijan> I have no need to change the semantics per se

Bijan Parsia: I have no need to change the semantics per se ←

19:06:18 <bijan> I.e., my interst isn't in changing the semantics, but service this interest

Bijan Parsia: I.e., my interst isn't in changing the semantics, but service this interest ←

19:06:22 <bmotik> I already did something like this

Boris Motik: I already did something like this ←

19:06:26 <MartinD> Ian: could Jeremy prepare some examples? or Boris? or ???

Ian Horrocks: could Jeff prepare some examples? or Boris? or ??? ←

19:06:40 <alanr> We will need such an explanation if we make the change for the documentation - so effort not wasted

Alan Ruttenberg: We will need such an explanation if we make the change for the documentation - so effort not wasted ←

19:06:41 <jeremy> s/Jeremy/Jeff/

19:06:51 <alanr> ack alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←

19:06:51 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to say fwiw, it's always harder to explain existential semantics in my experience

Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to say fwiw, it's always harder to explain existential semantics in my experience ←

19:06:52 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:06:56 <Zakim> -JeffP

Zakim IRC Bot: -JeffP ←

19:07:00 <ivan> ack JeffP

Ivan Herman: ack JeffP ←

19:07:00 <Zakim> JeffP, you wanted to ask how to explain the difference to users

Zakim IRC Bot: JeffP, you wanted to ask how to explain the difference to users ←

19:07:27 <MartinD> it's hard to explain existential issue with b-nodes...

it's hard to explain existential issue with b-nodes... ←

19:07:36 <bijan> In the sparql working group, people like, Oracles Fred Zemke, clearly believed that bnodes were singluar terms.

Bijan Parsia: In the sparql working group, people like, Oracles Fred Zemke, clearly believed that bnodes were singluar terms. ←

19:07:41 <MartinD> Ian: some examples would be useful to explain people what is this about

Ian Horrocks: some examples would be useful to explain people what is this about ←

19:07:45 <Zakim> +??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1 ←

19:08:04 <MartinD> ACTION: Jeff to lead effort on formulating some examples on b-nodes issues and their impact on users

ACTION: Jeff to lead effort on formulating some examples on b-nodes issues and their impact on users ←

19:08:04 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-67 - Lead effort on formulating some examples on b-nodes issues and their impact on users [on Jeff Pan - due 2008-01-23].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-67 - Lead effort on formulating some examples on b-nodes issues and their impact on users [on Jeff Pan - due 2008-01-23]. ←

19:08:07 <JeffP> zakim, ??P1 is me

Unknown JeffP: zakim, ??P1 is me ←

19:08:07 <Zakim> +JeffP; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +JeffP; got it ←

19:08:34 <bmotik> JeffP, I already wrote an example e-mail: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Nov/0177.html

Boris Motik: JeffP, I already wrote an example e-mail: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Nov/0177.html ←

19:08:38 <MartinD> Ian: good there was lot of effort on this.. and also some new ideas, suggestions

Ian Horrocks: good there was lot of effort on this.. and also some new ideas, suggestions ←

19:08:47 <jeremy> action: jeremy to respond to boris's parsing idea by e-mail

ACTION: jeremy to respond to boris's parsing idea by e-mail ←

19:08:47 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-68 - Respond to boris's parsing idea by e-mail [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2008-01-23].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-68 - Respond to boris's parsing idea by e-mail [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2008-01-23]. ←

19:08:53 <JeffP> bmotik, thanks for the pointer!

Unknown JeffP: bmotik, thanks for the pointer! ←

19:08:59 <MartinD> Topic: Issues

6. Issues

19:09:12 <MartinD> Ian: no raised issues on agenda, no editorial either

Ian Horrocks: no raised issues on agenda, no editorial either ←

19:09:19 <MartinD> Ian: some to move onward

Ian Horrocks: some to move onward ←

19:09:43 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←

19:09:43 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←

19:09:53 <MartinD> Ian: ...syntax for allDisjoint... seemed simple, but complicated that if we have mapping for this, we should also have them for...

Ian Horrocks: ...syntax for allDisjoint... seemed simple, but complicated that if we have mapping for this, we should also have them for... ←

19:09:56 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ ←

19:10:02 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←

19:10:02 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←

19:10:11 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:10:19 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

19:10:19 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

19:10:45 <MartinD> pfps: no need to go further in this discussion, syntax adapted to those few things that can be used a lot, not proposing extra syntax that do not require this

Peter Patel-Schneider: no need to go further in this discussion, syntax adapted to those few things that can be used a lot, not proposing extra syntax that do not require this ←

19:10:56 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

19:10:56 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←

19:11:03 <MartinD> pfps: seems to be a reasonable resolution, unless people disagree

Peter Patel-Schneider: seems to be a reasonable resolution, unless people disagree ←

19:11:06 <jeremy> q+ to ask what we have?

Jeremy Carroll: q+ to ask what we have? ←

19:11:10 <bijan> As long as we have allDisjoint, I'm happy

Bijan Parsia: As long as we have allDisjoint, I'm happy ←

19:11:11 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:11:13 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q- ←

19:11:16 <MartinD> Ian: maybe we should resolve it?

Ian Horrocks: maybe we should resolve it? ←

19:11:17 <bmotik> I didn't understand what Peter just said.

Boris Motik: I didn't understand what Peter just said. ←

19:11:19 <IanH> ack pfps

Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←

19:11:28 <MartinD> Jeremy: which special constructs do we mean?

Jeremy Carroll: which special constructs do we mean? ←

19:11:29 <bijan> AllDijsoint, AllDifferent?

Bijan Parsia: AllDijsoint, AllDifferent? ←

19:11:35 <pfps> from owl 1.0, allDifferent, from owl 1.1 allDisjoint

Peter Patel-Schneider: from owl 1.0, allDifferent, from owl 1.1 allDisjoint ←

19:11:41 <MartinD> Ian: difIndividual, sameIndividual, etc.

Ian Horrocks: difIndividual, sameIndividual, etc. ←

19:11:42 <pfps> ... that's all

Peter Patel-Schneider: ... that's all ←

19:12:06 <bmotik> Peter, did you mean really making the syntax round-trippable, or do you think that we should just close issue as-is without mapping the syntax round-trippable?

Boris Motik: Peter, did you mean really making the syntax round-trippable, or do you think that we should just close issue as-is without mapping the syntax round-trippable? ←

19:12:11 <MartinD> Ian: for allDisjoint there is aconstruct in semantics, there is nothing in mapping doc?

Ian Horrocks: for allDisjoint there is aconstruct in semantics, there is nothing in mapping doc? ←

19:12:12 <mschnei> Question: do we already have "allDisjointProperties"? Is this useful?

Scribe problem: the name 'Question' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Question: do we already have "allDisjointProperties"? Is this useful? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown mschnei ] ←

19:12:14 <pfps> yes, i think

Peter Patel-Schneider: yes, i think ←

19:12:22 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+ ←

19:12:24 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←

19:12:24 <Zakim> pfps was not muted, pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was not muted, pfps ←

19:12:45 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←

19:13:03 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

19:13:03 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←

19:13:05 <MartinD> pfps: all disjoints always had structural.abstract syntax...

Peter Patel-Schneider: all disjoints always had structural.abstract syntax... ←

19:13:16 <Zakim> -Carsten

Zakim IRC Bot: -Carsten ←

19:13:22 <MartinD> pfps: all we want is special for allDifferent

Peter Patel-Schneider: all we want is special for allDifferent ←

19:13:25 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:13:37 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←

19:13:38 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+ ←

19:14:01 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:14:05 <ivan> ack jeremy

Ivan Herman: ack jeremy ←

19:14:05 <Zakim> jeremy, you wanted to ask what we have?

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy, you wanted to ask what we have? ←

19:14:18 <mschnei> not only roundtripping, but also triple bloat

Unknown mschnei: not only roundtripping, but also triple bloat ←

19:14:19 <MartinD> Ian: difficulty with proposed solution is that if there is only structural syntax, no corresponding serialization, we may get to round-trippable problem

Ian Horrocks: difficulty with proposed solution is that if there is only structural syntax, no corresponding serialization, we may get to round-trippable problem ←

19:14:31 <MartinD> Ian: what we have now is what we had in owl 1.0

Ian Horrocks: what we have now is what we had in owl 1.0 ←

19:14:43 <MartinD> Jeremy: disjoint Obj Props is new here...

Jeremy Carroll: disjoint Obj Props is new here... ←

19:14:44 <mschnei> triple bloat at least for different or disjoint

Unknown mschnei: triple bloat at least for different or disjoint ←

19:14:45 <bijan> disjointClasses:= 'DisjointClasses' '(' { annotation } description description { description } ')

Bijan Parsia: disjointClasses:= 'DisjointClasses' '(' { annotation } description description { description } ') ←

19:14:58 <bijan> DisjointClasses(c1 ... cn)

Bijan Parsia: DisjointClasses(c1 ... cn) ←

19:14:58 <bijan> T(ci) owl:disjointWith T(cj) 1  i, j  n, i  j

Bijan Parsia: T(ci) owl:disjointWith T(cj) 1 i, j n, i j ←

19:15:02 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:15:36 <MartinD> pfps: started with a fact that something that needs to be expressed... where it got complicated is when we brough round-tripping... should we be accountable f

Alan Ruttenberg: started with a fact that something that needs to be expressed... where it got complicated is when we brough round-tripping... should we be accountable f ←

19:15:53 <alanr> s/pfps/alanr

19:15:57 <jeremy>  DifferentIndividuals(iID1 ... iIDn) 	 T(iIDi) owl:differentFrom T(iIDj) 1 ? i, j ? n, i ? j

Jeremy Carroll: DifferentIndividuals(iID1 ... iIDn) T(iIDi) owl:differentFrom T(iIDj) 1 ? i, j ? n, i ? j ←

19:16:01 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:16:06 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←

19:16:06 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←

19:16:08 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

19:16:08 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←

19:16:28 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←

19:16:28 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←

19:16:38 <MartinD> Boris: what is peter's proposal? drop round-tripping, extend vocabulary? what is against extended vocabulary?

Boris Motik: what is peter's proposal? drop round-tripping, extend vocabulary? what is against extended vocabulary? ←

19:16:45 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

19:16:45 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan ←

19:16:46 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←

19:16:46 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←

19:16:56 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←

19:17:03 <bmotik> q-

Boris Motik: q- ←

19:17:06 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←

19:17:27 <jeremy> (I am supporting AllDisjoint and AllDifferent)

Jeremy Carroll: (I am supporting AllDisjoint and AllDifferent) ←

19:17:34 <bmotik> +1 for n^2, but I believe that we need others as well

Boris Motik: +1 for n^2, but I believe that we need others as well ←

19:17:42 <alanr> alldifferent already existed

Alan Ruttenberg: alldifferent already existed ←

19:17:55 <MartinD> pfps: should we give up on round-tripping... to some extent eyes

Peter Patel-Schneider: should we give up on round-tripping... to some extent eyes ←

19:17:58 <alanr> or take up roundtripping as a separate issue?

Alan Ruttenberg: or take up roundtripping as a separate issue? ←

19:18:18 <bijan> bijan: I just want to make sure that n-ary Disjointclasses in functional syntax gets mapped to  an analogous structure in rdf (an not n^2 disjointWiths)

Bijan Parsia: I just want to make sure that n-ary Disjointclasses in functional syntax gets mapped to an analogous structure in rdf (an not n^2 disjointWiths) [ Scribe Assist by Bijan Parsia ] ←

19:18:21 <bmotik> On man...

Boris Motik: On man... ←

19:18:23 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

19:18:23 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

19:18:24 <MartinD> ian: what's the problem of adding exactly that construct in mapping syntax? what is against it?

Ian Horrocks: what's the problem of adding exactly that construct in mapping syntax? what is against it? ←

19:18:24 <bmotik> Oh man....

Boris Motik: Oh man.... ←

19:18:29 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

19:18:29 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←

19:18:35 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←

19:18:41 <mschnei> another problem not mentioned: complete serialization needed until you know that you have all triples collected

Unknown mschnei: another problem not mentioned: complete serialization needed until you know that you have all triples collected ←

19:19:03 <jeremy> ian: what's wrong with mapping all n-ary constructs; pfps: bloat; jeremy: +1

Ian Horrocks: what's wrong with mapping all n-ary constructs; pfps: bloat; jeremy: +1 [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←

19:19:03 <mschnei> this would not be a problem, if all the classes would be in a single list

Unknown mschnei: this would not be a problem, if all the classes would be in a single list ←

19:19:05 <MartinD> Ian: people have diff opinions, there was a lot discussion on this

Ian Horrocks: people have diff opinions, there was a lot discussion on this ←

19:19:06 <bijan> I suggest an web based survey of the wg?

Bijan Parsia: I suggest an web based survey of the wg? ←

19:19:16 <MartinD> Alan: isolate changes necessary to round-tripping...

Alan Ruttenberg: isolate changes necessary to round-tripping... ←

19:19:17 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+ ←

19:19:29 <bijan> q-

Bijan Parsia: q- ←

19:19:32 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:19:39 <MartinD> Alan: treat that separately and we can pay more attention to it

Alan Ruttenberg: treat that separately and we can pay more attention to it ←

19:19:41 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←

19:19:41 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←

19:19:42 <ivan> ack bmotik

Ivan Herman: ack bmotik ←

19:19:57 <MartinD> Boris: is round-tripping important? pls. vote....

Boris Motik: is round-tripping important? pls. vote.... ←

19:20:07 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1 ←

19:20:09 <bijan> +1 but weakly

Bijan Parsia: +1 but weakly ←

19:20:10 <mschnei> +1

Unknown mschnei: +1 ←

19:20:11 <bcuencag> +1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1 ←

19:20:12 <jeremy> -0

Jeremy Carroll: -0 ←

19:20:15 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←

19:20:15 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←

19:20:15 <DougL> -1

Doug Lenat: -1 ←

19:20:15 <pfps> round tripping is important, but not to the point of ...

Peter Patel-Schneider: round tripping is important, but not to the point of ... ←

19:20:16 <ivan> 0

Ivan Herman: 0 ←

19:20:17 <JeffP> 0

Unknown JeffP: 0 ←

19:20:18 <MartinD> 0

0 ←

19:20:19 <alanr> +0 think it is worthwhile, but should be considered against cost

Alan Ruttenberg: +0 think it is worthwhile, but should be considered against cost ←

19:20:21 <sandro> +0

Sandro Hawke: +0 ←

19:20:21 <msmith> +1 round-tripping in general, but ok with just in OWL/XML

Michael Smith: +1 round-tripping in general, but ok with just in OWL/XML ←

19:20:25 <pfps> +0.epsilon

Peter Patel-Schneider: +0.epsilon ←

19:20:27 <IanH> +1

Ian Horrocks: +1 ←

19:20:32 <Achille> +1

Achille Fokoue: +1 ←

19:20:41 <DougL> (that was clear from the way you phrased the question)

Doug Lenat: (that was clear from the way you phrased the question) ←

19:20:42 <pfps> of course, we could round-trip into XML

Peter Patel-Schneider: of course, we could round-trip into XML ←

19:20:48 <MartinD> Ian: seems to be worthwhile investigating round-tripping = action?

Ian Horrocks: seems to be worthwhile investigating round-tripping = action? ←

19:20:59 <bmotik> I can do this

Boris Motik: I can do this ←

19:21:11 <MartinD> Ian: initial input to who is affected, what impact it has, ....

Ian Horrocks: initial input to who is affected, what impact it has, .... ←

19:21:28 <bmotik> I'll open a new issue, OK?

Boris Motik: I'll open a new issue, OK? ←

19:21:32 <alanr> yes

Alan Ruttenberg: yes ←

19:21:40 <alanr> or an action

Alan Ruttenberg: or an action ←

19:21:50 <MartinD> ACTION: Boris to look at the round-tripping problem and collate initial material for/against it

ACTION: Boris to look at the round-tripping problem and collate initial material for/against it ←

19:21:50 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-69 - Look at the round-tripping problem and collate initial material for/against it [on Boris Motik - due 2008-01-23].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-69 - Look at the round-tripping problem and collate initial material for/against it [on Boris Motik - due 2008-01-23]. ←

19:21:59 <DougL> good idea

Doug Lenat: good idea ←

19:22:00 <pfps> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 ←

19:22:03 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1 ←

19:22:05 <bijan> +1

Bijan Parsia: +1 ←

19:22:07 <MartinD> Ian: should we resolve issue 2 and go for a new issue?

Ian Horrocks: should we resolve ISSUE-2 and go for a new issue? ←

19:22:21 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ ←

19:22:23 <MartinD> Topic: discussion on issue 51 (quick)

7. discussion on ISSUE-51 (quick)

19:22:27 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←

19:22:27 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←

19:22:31 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←

19:22:33 <MartinD> Ian: language name... some de-facto decisions

Ian Horrocks: language name... some de-facto decisions ←

19:22:37 <pfps> q+ OWL 1.1

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ OWL 1.1 ←

19:22:45 <MartinD> Ian: called it owl 1.1.... any thoughts?

Ian Horrocks: called it owl 1.1.... any thoughts? ←

19:22:48 <jeremy> q- OWL

Jeremy Carroll: q- OWL ←

19:22:52 <jeremy> q- 1.1

Jeremy Carroll: q- 1.1 ←

19:22:55 <ivan> ack pfps

Ivan Herman: ack pfps ←

19:23:09 <MartinD> pfps: wanted to argue for 1.1.....

Peter Patel-Schneider: wanted to argue for 1.1..... ←

19:23:17 <bijan> q+ to argue for OWL

Bijan Parsia: q+ to argue for OWL ←

19:23:20 <alanr> q+ to agree with OWL1.1

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to agree with OWL1.1 ←

19:23:26 <sandro> q+ to say Peter is Very Pedantic

Sandro Hawke: q+ to say Peter is Very Pedantic ←

19:23:27 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q- ←

19:23:35 <sandro> q-

Sandro Hawke: q- ←

19:23:37 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:23:45 <IanH> ack alanr

Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←

19:23:45 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to agree with OWL1.1

Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to agree with OWL1.1 ←

19:24:01 <MartinD> alan: we chose 1.1 to continue as a product line

Alan Ruttenberg: we chose 1.1 to continue as a product line ←

19:24:22 <MartinD> Alan: is this still an issue? esp. only Jim seemed to have objected...

Alan Ruttenberg: is this still an issue? esp. only Jim seemed to have objected... ←

19:24:27 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ ←

19:24:29 <jeremy> q+ to ask for W3C position?

Jeremy Carroll: q+ to ask for W3C position? ←

19:24:39 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q- ←

19:24:43 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:24:51 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

19:24:51 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←

19:24:52 <MartinD> Ian: straw poll on what people think now?

Ian Horrocks: straw poll on what people think now? ←

19:25:11 <pfps> +1 OWL 1.1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 OWL 1.1 ←

19:25:13 <MartinD> Alan: people asked whether this is still an issue.... people 'vote'

Alan Ruttenberg: people asked whether this is still an issue.... people 'vote' ←

19:25:21 <JeffP> +1 OWL1.1

Unknown JeffP: +1 OWL1.1 ←

19:25:22 <DougL> 0

Doug Lenat: 0 ←

19:25:23 <bijan> -1

Bijan Parsia: -1 ←

19:25:24 <Achille> +1 OWL 1.1

Achille Fokoue: +1 OWL 1.1 ←

19:25:25 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←

19:25:27 <bmotik> +1 to OWL 1.1

Boris Motik: +1 to OWL 1.1 ←

19:25:28 <zwu2> +1 OWL 1.1

Zhe Wu: +1 OWL 1.1 ←

19:25:30 <bijan> -1 weakly

Bijan Parsia: -1 weakly ←

19:25:33 <mschnei> +1 OWL 1.1

Unknown mschnei: +1 OWL 1.1 ←

19:25:39 <alanr> +1 weakly :)

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 weakly :) ←

19:25:39 <bcuencag> +1 OWL 1.1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1 OWL 1.1 ←

19:25:42 <MartinD> 0

0 ←

19:25:44 <jeremy> strong 0

Jeremy Carroll: strong 0 ←

19:25:46 <msmith> 0

Michael Smith: 0 ←

19:25:56 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:25:58 <alanr> owl, weakly

Alan Ruttenberg: owl, weakly ←

19:26:05 <Elisa> -1 due to significant syntax changes - which is one of Jim's points

Unknown Elisa: -1 due to significant syntax changes - which is one of Jim's points ←

19:26:27 <alanr> elisa: Is there an alternative proposal?

Scribe problem: the name 'elisa' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown elisa: Is there an alternative proposal? [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←

19:26:31 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:26:47 <bijan> q-

Bijan Parsia: q- ←

19:26:50 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

19:26:50 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

19:26:53 <Elisa> Not from me, but perhaps from Jim

Unknown Elisa: Not from me, but perhaps from Jim ←

19:26:54 <IanH> ack bijan

Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←

19:26:56 <MartinD> Bijan: can live with 1.1... maybe just call it OWL... maybe hard to define how much needs to go into ".1"

Bijan Parsia: can live with 1.1... maybe just call it OWL... maybe hard to define how much needs to go into ".1" ←

19:26:59 <IanH> ack jeremuy

Ian Horrocks: ack jeremuy ←

19:27:01 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:27:08 <IanH> ack jeremy

Ian Horrocks: ack jeremy ←

19:27:08 <Zakim> jeremy, you wanted to ask for W3C position?

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy, you wanted to ask for W3C position? ←

19:27:12 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:27:19 <Elisa> 2.0 would be better than 1.1 given syntax changes

Unknown Elisa: 2.0 would be better than 1.1 given syntax changes ←

19:27:33 <Elisa> and I agree with Jeremy's analysis

Unknown Elisa: and I agree with Jeremy's analysis ←

19:27:36 <alanr> tks

Alan Ruttenberg: tks ←

19:27:49 <MartinD> Jeremy: this is perhaps a policy question... should we use "owl" as atechnology, or is this a "separate" technology? see w3c position

Jeremy Carroll: this is perhaps a policy question... should we use "owl" as atechnology, or is this a "separate" technology? see w3c position ←

19:28:05 <bijan> Elisa, you realize that Pellet, using an OWL 1.1 parser, can pass all the OWL 1.0 test cases that it passed before?

Bijan Parsia: Elisa, you realize that Pellet, using an OWL 1.1 parser, can pass all the OWL 1.0 test cases that it passed before? ←

19:28:11 <bijan> (and semantics)?

Bijan Parsia: (and semantics)? ←

19:28:23 <Elisa> yes, but that position is not true from an OMG perspective

Unknown Elisa: yes, but that position is not true from an OMG perspective ←

19:28:24 <MartinD> Ian: any other business

Ian Horrocks: any other business ←

19:28:30 <MartinD> Topic: AOB

8. AOB

19:28:36 <pfps> which issues for next week?

Peter Patel-Schneider: which issues for next week? ←

19:28:40 <bijan> Hmm.

Bijan Parsia: Hmm. ←

19:28:40 <MartinD> Ian: agenda for next week available online

Ian Horrocks: agenda for next week available online ←

19:29:01 <MartinD> Ian: has quite some info in, so there is time to look at it and think about issues, discussion

Ian Horrocks: has quite some info in, so there is time to look at it and think about issues, discussion ←

19:29:08 <pfps> punning

Peter Patel-Schneider: punning ←

19:29:11 <Elisa> If you think about it from a graphical notation (i.e. UML profile) view, there are significant changes

Unknown Elisa: If you think about it from a graphical notation (i.e. UML profile) view, there are significant changes ←

19:29:30 <MartinD> Ian: next week talking about puninng, so pls. look at that

Ian Horrocks: next week talking about puninng, so pls. look at that ←

19:29:35 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

19:29:35 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan ←

19:29:54 <MartinD> Alan: suggests a check on issue times...

Alan Ruttenberg: suggests a check on issue times... ←

19:30:12 <Zakim> -bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan ←

19:30:13 <MartinD> Ian: concluded.....

Ian Horrocks: concluded..... ←

19:30:13 <JeffP> bye

Unknown JeffP: bye ←

19:30:14 <Zakim> -Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe ←

19:30:15 <Zakim> -bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik ←

19:30:16 <pfps> bijan: read the primer and expanded syntax documents

Bijan Parsia: read the primer and expanded syntax documents [ Scribe Assist by Peter Patel-Schneider ] ←

19:30:16 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←

19:30:17 <Zakim> -DougL

Zakim IRC Bot: -DougL ←

19:30:19 <Zakim> -jeremy

Zakim IRC Bot: -jeremy ←

19:30:20 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←

19:30:21 <Zakim> -JeffP

Zakim IRC Bot: -JeffP ←

19:30:23 <Zakim> -msmith

Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith ←

19:30:23 <Zakim> -IanH

Zakim IRC Bot: -IanH ←

19:30:25 <Zakim> -Elisa_Kendall

Zakim IRC Bot: -Elisa_Kendall ←

19:30:27 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←

19:30:29 <Zakim> -Achille

Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille ←

19:30:31 <Zakim> -pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps ←

19:30:35 <Zakim> -bcuencag

Zakim IRC Bot: -bcuencag ←

19:30:42 <Zakim> -MartinD

Zakim IRC Bot: -MartinD ←

19:31:02 <MartinD> RRSAgent, generate minutes

RRSAgent, generate minutes ←

19:31:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-owl-minutes.html MartinD

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-owl-minutes.html MartinD ←

19:31:14 <sandro> MartinD, http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.01.16/Minutes is ready for you to clean up.

Sandro Hawke: MartinD, http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.01.16/Minutes is ready for you to clean up. ←

19:35:40 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, alanr, in SW_OWL()12:00PM

Zakim IRC Bot: disconnecting the lone participant, alanr, in SW_OWL()12:00PM ←

19:35:42 <Zakim> SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended ←

19:35:43 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.212.239.aaaa, alanr, bijan, Ivan, pfps, Sandro, +8652aabb, +1.202.408.aacc, IanH, +9082aadd, msmith, MartinD, bmotik, +49.351.4.aaee, Carsten, DougL, +018652aaff,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +1.212.239.aaaa, alanr, bijan, Ivan, pfps, Sandro, +8652aabb, +1.202.408.aacc, IanH, +9082aadd, msmith, MartinD, bmotik, +49.351.4.aaee, Carsten, DougL, +018652aaff, ←

19:35:45 <Zakim> ... bcuencag, Achille, jeremy, +1.603.897.aagg, JeffP, Zhe, [IPcaller], Elisa_Kendall

Zakim IRC Bot: ... bcuencag, Achille, jeremy, +1.603.897.aagg, JeffP, Zhe, [IPcaller], Elisa_Kendall ←

Formatted by CommonScribe