edit

OWL Working Group

Minutes of 28 November 2007

Present
Jeremy Carroll, Achille Fokoue, Boris Motik, Michael Smith, Alan Ruttenberg, Jeff Pan, Ivan Herman, Peter Patel-Schneider, Bijan Parsia, Uli Sattler, Martin Dzbor, Ratnesh Sahay, Evan Wallace, Ian Horrocks, Conrad Bock, Sandro Hawke, Bernardo Cuenca Grau, Deborah McGuinness, Zhe Wu, Giorgos Stoilos, Vipul Kashyap, Conrad Bock, Unknown Carsten
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. no telecon on Dec 5th link
  2. Base abbreviated URIs in Functional-style Syntax on CURIES not QNAMES (see Issue 14) link
  3. PROPOSAL: Structural specification, XML Schema, and RDF mapping be extended to allow for multiple facet--value pairs in data ranges (see Issue 28) link
  4. Issue 64 be resolved as per this email link
Topics

There are some format problems with the chatlog. Please correct them and reload this page. They are labeled on this page in a red box, like this message.

It may be helpful to

17:55:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/28-owl-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/28-owl-irc

17:55:40 <jeremy> Zakim, this is SW_OWL

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, this is SW_OWL

17:55:40 <Zakim> jeremy, I see SW_OWL()12:00PM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be SW_OWL".

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy, I see SW_OWL()12:00PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be SW_OWL".

17:55:49 <jeremy> Zakim, this will be SW_OWL

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, this will be SW_OWL

17:55:49 <Zakim> ok, jeremy; I see SW_OWL()12:00PM scheduled to start 55 minutes ago

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, jeremy; I see SW_OWL()12:00PM scheduled to start 55 minutes ago

17:56:45 <Zakim> SW_OWL()12:00PM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()12:00PM has now started

17:56:52 <Zakim> +??P13

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13

17:56:56 <jeremy> Zakim, ??P13 is me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, ??P13 is me

17:56:56 <Zakim> +jeremy; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jeremy; got it

17:58:56 <Zakim> +[IBM]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM]

17:59:06 <Zakim> +??P16

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P16

17:59:16 <Zakim> +MIchaelSmith

Zakim IRC Bot: +MIchaelSmith

17:59:20 <bmotik> Zakim, ??p16 is bmotik

Boris Motik: Zakim, ??p16 is bmotik

17:59:20 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it

17:59:26 <Zakim> +Alan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Alan

17:59:27 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

17:59:28 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

17:59:36 <Zakim> +JeffP

Zakim IRC Bot: +JeffP

17:59:43 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

17:59:43 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

17:59:44 <achille> Zakim, IBM is achille

Achille Fokoue: Zakim, IBM is achille

17:59:44 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

17:59:45 <Zakim> +achille; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +achille; got it

18:00:14 <Zakim> +??P11

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11

18:00:22 <Zakim> +??P15

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15

18:00:30 <Zakim> +??P19

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P19

18:00:50 <pfps> zakim, who is on the phone

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, who is on the phone

18:00:52 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is on the phone', pfps

18:01:04 <bijan> zakim, ??P15 is me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, ??P15 is me

18:01:07 <Zakim> +bijan; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan; got it

18:01:13 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

18:01:13 <alanr> zakim, who is on the call

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is on the call

18:01:14 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

18:01:16 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the call', alanr

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is on the call', alanr

18:01:21 <alanr> zakim, who is here

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here

18:01:21 <Zakim> alanr, you need to end that query with '?'

Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you need to end that query with '?'

18:01:25 <alanr> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here?

18:01:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see jeremy, achille, bmotik (muted), +1.202.408.aaaa, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, ??P11, bijan (muted), ??P19

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see jeremy, achille, bmotik (muted), +1.202.408.aaaa, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, ??P11, bijan (muted), ??P19

18:01:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see pfps, Carsten, bijan, Ratnesh, uli, IanH, bmotik, JeffP, MichaelSmith, achille, alanr, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng, sandro, ewallace

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pfps, Carsten, bijan, Ratnesh, uli, IanH, bmotik, JeffP, MichaelSmith, achille, alanr, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng, sandro, ewallace

18:01:32 <Zakim> +Vipul_Kashyap

Zakim IRC Bot: +Vipul_Kashyap

18:01:42 <Zakim> +MartinD

Zakim IRC Bot: +MartinD

18:01:43 <pfps> zakim, ?p11 is me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, ?p11 is me

18:01:46 <Zakim> sorry, pfps, I do not recognize a party named '?p11'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, pfps, I do not recognize a party named '?p11'

18:01:47 <uli> zakim, ??P15 is me

Uli Sattler: zakim, ??P15 is me

18:01:50 <Zakim> I already had ??P15 as bijan, uli

Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P15 as bijan, uli

18:01:53 <pfps> zakim, ??p11 is me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, ??p11 is me

18:01:54 <Zakim> +??P24

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P24

18:01:56 <Zakim> +pfps; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it

18:01:56 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me

18:02:00 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted

18:02:04 <alanr> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here?

18:02:09 <uli> zakim, ??p11 is me

Uli Sattler: zakim, ??p11 is me

18:02:09 <Conrad> Conrad

Conrad Bock: Conrad

18:02:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see jeremy, achille, bmotik (muted), +1.202.408.aaaa, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, pfps (muted), bijan (muted), ??P19 (muted), Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD, ??P24

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see jeremy, achille, bmotik (muted), +1.202.408.aaaa, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, pfps (muted), bijan (muted), ??P19 (muted), Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD, ??P24

18:02:10 <jeremy> Zakim, mute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, mute me

18:02:15 <MartinD> zakim, mute me

Martin Dzbor: zakim, mute me

18:02:19 <Zakim> I already had ??P11 as pfps, uli

Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P11 as pfps, uli

18:02:21 <Zakim> jeremy should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should now be muted

18:02:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see Conrad, pfps, Carsten, bijan, Ratnesh, uli, IanH, bmotik, JeffP, MichaelSmith, achille, alanr, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng, sandro, ewallace

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Conrad, pfps, Carsten, bijan, Ratnesh, uli, IanH, bmotik, JeffP, MichaelSmith, achille, alanr, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng, sandro, ewallace

18:02:32 <Zakim> MartinD should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MartinD should now be muted

18:02:37 <pfps> ack pfps

Peter Patel-Schneider: ack pfps

18:02:41 <alanr> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here?

18:02:42 <MichaelSmith> zakim, +1.202.408.aaaa is me

Michael Smith: zakim, +1.202.408.aaaa is me

18:02:45 <Ratnesh> zakim, P24 is Ratnesh

Ratnesh Sahay: zakim, P24 is Ratnesh

18:02:47 <pfps> q?

Peter Patel-Schneider: q?

18:02:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see jeremy (muted), achille, bmotik (muted), +1.202.408.aaaa, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, pfps, bijan (muted), ??P19 (muted), Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD (muted), ??P24

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see jeremy (muted), achille, bmotik (muted), +1.202.408.aaaa, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, pfps, bijan (muted), ??P19 (muted), Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD (muted), ??P24

18:02:57 <Zakim> +MichaelSmith; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MichaelSmith; got it

18:02:59 <Zakim> sorry, Ratnesh, I do not recognize a party named 'P24'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Ratnesh, I do not recognize a party named 'P24'

18:03:05 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: +Evan_Wallace

18:03:07 <Zakim> +IanH

Zakim IRC Bot: +IanH

18:03:08 <alanr> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here?

18:03:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see Conrad, pfps, Carsten, bijan, Ratnesh, uli, IanH, bmotik, JeffP, MichaelSmith, achille, alanr, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng, sandro, ewallace

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Conrad, pfps, Carsten, bijan, Ratnesh, uli, IanH, bmotik, JeffP, MichaelSmith, achille, alanr, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng, sandro, ewallace

18:03:16 <Zakim> +??P27

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P27

18:03:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see jeremy (muted), achille, bmotik (muted), MichaelSmith, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, pfps, bijan (muted), ??P19 (muted), Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD (muted), ??P24,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see jeremy (muted), achille, bmotik (muted), MichaelSmith, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, pfps, bijan (muted), ??P19 (muted), Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD (muted), ??P24,

18:03:26 <Ratnesh> zakim, ?? P24 is Ratnesh

Ratnesh Sahay: zakim, ?? P24 is Ratnesh

18:03:29 <Zakim> ... Evan_Wallace, IanH, ??P27

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Evan_Wallace, IanH, ??P27

18:03:36 <alanr> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here?

18:03:39 <Zakim> On IRC I see bcuencag, Conrad, pfps, Carsten, bijan, Ratnesh, uli, IanH, bmotik, JeffP, MichaelSmith, achille, alanr, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng, sandro,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see bcuencag, Conrad, pfps, Carsten, bijan, Ratnesh, uli, IanH, bmotik, JeffP, MichaelSmith, achille, alanr, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng, sandro,

18:03:42 <Zakim> ... ewallace

Zakim IRC Bot: ... ewallace

18:03:45 <uli> zakim, ??P19 is me

Uli Sattler: zakim, ??P19 is me

18:03:46 <Zakim> I don't understand '?? P24 is Ratnesh', Ratnesh

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand '?? P24 is Ratnesh', Ratnesh

18:03:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see jeremy (muted), achille, bmotik (muted), MichaelSmith, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, pfps, bijan (muted), ??P19 (muted), Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD (muted), ??P24,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see jeremy (muted), achille, bmotik (muted), MichaelSmith, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, pfps, bijan (muted), ??P19 (muted), Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD (muted), ??P24,

18:03:53 <alanr> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here?

18:03:55 <Zakim> ... Evan_Wallace, IanH (muted), ??P27

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Evan_Wallace, IanH (muted), ??P27

18:03:57 <Zakim> +Conrad

Zakim IRC Bot: +Conrad

18:04:01 <Zakim> +uli; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +uli; got it

18:04:05 <Zakim> On IRC I see pfps, Vipul, bcuencag, Conrad, Carsten, bijan, Ratnesh, uli, IanH, bmotik, JeffP, MichaelSmith, achille, alanr, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pfps, Vipul, bcuencag, Conrad, Carsten, bijan, Ratnesh, uli, IanH, bmotik, JeffP, MichaelSmith, achille, alanr, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng,

18:04:12 <Zakim> ... sandro, ewallace

Zakim IRC Bot: ... sandro, ewallace

18:04:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see jeremy (muted), achille, bmotik (muted), MichaelSmith, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, pfps, bijan (muted), uli (muted), Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD (muted), ??P24, Evan_Wallace,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see jeremy (muted), achille, bmotik (muted), MichaelSmith, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, pfps, bijan (muted), uli (muted), Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD (muted), ??P24, Evan_Wallace,

18:04:17 <Zakim> ... IanH (muted), ??P27, +1.301.975.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: ... IanH (muted), ??P27, +1.301.975.aaee

18:04:19 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

18:04:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see zhe, pfps, Vipul, bcuencag, Conrad, Carsten, bijan, Ratnesh, uli, IanH, bmotik, JeffP, MichaelSmith, achille, alanr, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy, ivan, MartinD,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see zhe, pfps, Vipul, bcuencag, Conrad, Carsten, bijan, Ratnesh, uli, IanH, bmotik, JeffP, MichaelSmith, achille, alanr, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy, ivan, MartinD,

18:04:30 <Zakim> ... trackbot-ng, sandro, ewallace

Zakim IRC Bot: ... trackbot-ng, sandro, ewallace

18:04:34 <Zakim> +??P30

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P30

18:04:47 <JeffP> zakim, who is talking?

Jeff Pan: zakim, who is talking?

18:04:54 <bcuencag> zakim, ??P30 is me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: zakim, ??P30 is me

18:04:54 <Zakim> +bcuencag; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bcuencag; got it

18:04:57 <Zakim> JeffP, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Alan (5%), Vipul_Kashyap (76%), Sandro (36%), ??P30 (17%)

Zakim IRC Bot: JeffP, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Alan (5%), Vipul_Kashyap (76%), Sandro (36%), ??P30 (17%)

18:05:05 <bmotik> I have quite a lot of static on the line. Do others have the same problem?

Boris Motik: I have quite a lot of static on the line. Do others have the same problem?

18:05:12 <Ratnesh> zakim, ??P24 is Ratnesh

Ratnesh Sahay: zakim, ??P24 is Ratnesh

18:05:12 <Zakim> +Ratnesh; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ratnesh; got it

18:05:14 <alanr> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here?

18:05:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see jeremy (muted), achille, bmotik (muted), MichaelSmith, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, pfps, bijan (muted), uli (muted), Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD (muted), Ratnesh,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see jeremy (muted), achille, bmotik (muted), MichaelSmith, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, pfps, bijan (muted), uli (muted), Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD (muted), Ratnesh,

18:05:17 <Zakim> ... Evan_Wallace, IanH (muted), ??P27, +1.301.975.aaee, Sandro, bcuencag

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Evan_Wallace, IanH (muted), ??P27, +1.301.975.aaee, Sandro, bcuencag

18:05:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see zhe, pfps, Vipul, bcuencag, Conrad, Carsten, bijan, Ratnesh, uli, IanH, bmotik, JeffP, MichaelSmith, achille, alanr, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy, ivan, MartinD,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see zhe, pfps, Vipul, bcuencag, Conrad, Carsten, bijan, Ratnesh, uli, IanH, bmotik, JeffP, MichaelSmith, achille, alanr, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy, ivan, MartinD,

18:05:21 <Zakim> ... trackbot-ng, sandro, ewallace

Zakim IRC Bot: ... trackbot-ng, sandro, ewallace

18:05:26 <MartinD> i can hear well and clearly, as well...

Martin Dzbor: i can hear well and clearly, as well...

18:05:30 <bcuencag> zakim, mute me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: zakim, mute me

18:05:30 <Zakim> bcuencag should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencag should now be muted

18:05:49 <jeremy> conrad is not recorded on the phone

Jeremy Carroll: conrad is not recorded on the phone

18:06:03 <jeremy> 41#

Jeremy Carroll: 41#

18:06:12 <jeremy> is the magic

Jeremy Carroll: is the magic

18:06:27 <jeremy> Zakim, aaee is Conrad

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, aaee is Conrad

18:06:27 <Zakim> +Conrad; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Conrad; got it

18:06:35 <alanr> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here?

18:06:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see jeremy (muted), achille, bmotik (muted), MichaelSmith, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, pfps, bijan (muted), uli (muted), Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD (muted), Ratnesh,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see jeremy (muted), achille, bmotik (muted), MichaelSmith, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, pfps, bijan (muted), uli (muted), Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD (muted), Ratnesh,

18:06:38 <Zakim> ... Evan_Wallace, IanH (muted), ??P27, Conrad, Sandro, bcuencag (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Evan_Wallace, IanH (muted), ??P27, Conrad, Sandro, bcuencag (muted)

18:06:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see zhe, pfps, Vipul, bcuencag, Conrad, Carsten, bijan, Ratnesh, uli, IanH, bmotik, JeffP, MichaelSmith, achille, alanr, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy, ivan, MartinD,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see zhe, pfps, Vipul, bcuencag, Conrad, Carsten, bijan, Ratnesh, uli, IanH, bmotik, JeffP, MichaelSmith, achille, alanr, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy, ivan, MartinD,

18:06:42 <Zakim> ... trackbot-ng, sandro, ewallace

Zakim IRC Bot: ... trackbot-ng, sandro, ewallace

18:06:55 <sandro> zakim, drop ??P27

Sandro Hawke: zakim, drop ??P27

18:06:55 <Zakim> ??P27 is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: ??P27 is being disconnected

18:06:57 <Zakim> -??P27

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P27

18:07:08 <zhe> Zhe that is me been dropped

Zhe Wu: Zhe that is me been dropped

18:07:20 <alanr> call back in please

Alan Ruttenberg: call back in please

18:07:27 <Zakim> +??P27

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P27

18:07:54 <sandro> Zakim, ??P27 is Deb

Sandro Hawke: Zakim, ??P27 is Deb

18:07:54 <Zakim> +Deb; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Deb; got it

18:07:56 <Zakim> +??P31

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P31

18:08:05 <IanH> zakim, ??p31 is zhe

Ian Horrocks: zakim, ??p31 is zhe

18:08:05 <Zakim> +zhe; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +zhe; got it

18:08:08 <Zakim> +GiorgosStoilos

Zakim IRC Bot: +GiorgosStoilos

18:08:09 <alanr> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here?

18:08:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see jeremy (muted), achille, bmotik (muted), MichaelSmith, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, pfps, bijan (muted), uli (muted), Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD (muted), Ratnesh,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see jeremy (muted), achille, bmotik (muted), MichaelSmith, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, pfps, bijan (muted), uli (muted), Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD (muted), Ratnesh,

18:08:12 <Zakim> ... Evan_Wallace, IanH (muted), Conrad, Sandro, bcuencag (muted), Deb, zhe, GiorgosStoilos

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Evan_Wallace, IanH (muted), Conrad, Sandro, bcuencag (muted), Deb, zhe, GiorgosStoilos

18:08:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see GiorgosStoilos, zhe, pfps, Vipul, bcuencag, Conrad, Carsten, bijan, Ratnesh, uli, IanH, bmotik, JeffP, MichaelSmith, achille, alanr, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy, ivan,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see GiorgosStoilos, zhe, pfps, Vipul, bcuencag, Conrad, Carsten, bijan, Ratnesh, uli, IanH, bmotik, JeffP, MichaelSmith, achille, alanr, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy, ivan,

18:08:17 <Zakim> ... MartinD, trackbot-ng, sandro, ewallace

Zakim IRC Bot: ... MartinD, trackbot-ng, sandro, ewallace

18:08:22 <pfps> a faq on how to handle Zakim would probably be useful

Peter Patel-Schneider: a faq on how to handle Zakim would probably be useful

18:08:35 <bijan> I could report on rif meeting

Bijan Parsia: I could report on rif meeting

18:09:02 <JeffP> topic: ADMIN

1. ADMIN

18:09:11 <bijan> http://www.w3.org/2002/01/UsingZakim

Bijan Parsia: http://www.w3.org/2002/01/UsingZakim

18:09:19 <JeffP> comments of the minutes?

Jeff Pan: comments of the minutes?

18:09:30 <JeffP> minutes accepted

Jeff Pan: minutes accepted

18:09:38 <JeffP> alanr: action items ...

Alan Ruttenberg: action items ... [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:10:03 <JeffP> action 4: continued

Jeff Pan: ACTION-4: continued

18:10:11 <bijan> alanr, I could take the imports action ifyou'd like

Bijan Parsia: alanr, I could take the imports action ifyou'd like

18:10:26 <bijan> ok

Bijan Parsia: ok

18:10:30 <Zakim> +Carsten

Zakim IRC Bot: +Carsten

18:10:32 <jeremy> yes - I claim victory on action

Jeremy Carroll: yes - I claim victory on action

18:10:36 <Carsten> zakim, mute me

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: zakim, mute me

18:10:36 <Zakim> sorry, Carsten, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Carsten, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

18:10:46 <JeffP> action 27 is close

Jeff Pan: ACTION-27 is close

18:11:15 <Carsten> zakim, mute me

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: zakim, mute me

18:11:15 <Zakim> sorry, Carsten, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Carsten, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

18:11:18 <MichaelSmith> yes

Michael Smith: yes

18:11:20 <JeffP> action 29 is close

Jeff Pan: ACTION-29 is close

18:11:33 <jeremy> (I put the action number in the e-mail so the tracker tracks)

Jeremy Carroll: (I put the action number in the e-mail so the tracker tracks)

18:12:21 <JeffP> alanr: any furhter suggestions of the f2f agenda?

Alan Ruttenberg: any furhter suggestions of the f2f agenda? [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:12:29 <JeffP> q?

Jeff Pan: q?

18:12:30 <jeremy> Zakim, q- ??P15

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, q- ??P15

18:12:31 <Zakim> I see ??P11, ??P19, +49.351.4.aaff on the speaker queue

Zakim IRC Bot: I see ??P11, ??P19, +49.351.4.aaff on the speaker queue

18:12:31 <bijan> alanr got cut off

Bijan Parsia: alanr got cut off

18:12:41 <jeremy> q- ??P19

Jeremy Carroll: q- ??P19

18:12:45 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:12:48 <jeremy> no we don't

Jeremy Carroll: no we don't

18:12:52 <MichaelSmith> the queue doesn't update when names are correlated

Michael Smith: the queue doesn't update when names are correlated

18:12:54 <jeremy> q- ??P11

Jeremy Carroll: q- ??P11

18:13:00 <JeffP> zakim, who is on the call?

Jeff Pan: zakim, who is on the call?

18:13:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see jeremy (muted), achille, bmotik (muted), MichaelSmith, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, pfps, bijan (muted), uli (muted), Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD (muted), Ratnesh,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see jeremy (muted), achille, bmotik (muted), MichaelSmith, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, pfps, bijan (muted), uli (muted), Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD (muted), Ratnesh,

18:13:03 <Zakim> ... Evan_Wallace, IanH, Conrad, Sandro, bcuencag (muted), Deb, zhe, GiorgosStoilos, +49.351.4.aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Evan_Wallace, IanH, Conrad, Sandro, bcuencag (muted), Deb, zhe, GiorgosStoilos, +49.351.4.aaff

18:13:08 <sandro> (thanks Jeremy)

Sandro Hawke: (thanks Jeremy)

18:13:13 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:13:38 <Carsten> I think I inadvertedly added myself to the queue

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: I think I inadvertedly added myself to the queue

18:13:42 <Carsten> sorry

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: sorry

18:13:53 <jeremy> Zakim, aaff is Carsten

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, aaff is Carsten

18:13:53 <Zakim> +Carsten; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Carsten; got it

18:13:57 <jeremy> q- aaff

Jeremy Carroll: q- aaff

18:14:03 <Carsten> thanks!

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: thanks!

18:14:09 <jeremy> q- +49.351.4.aaff

Jeremy Carroll: q- +49.351.4.aaff

18:15:00 <dlm> +queue

Deborah McGuinness: +queue

18:15:08 <Carsten> yes, thanks

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: yes, thanks

18:15:27 <JeffP> alanr: we might need to move the import and rich annotation to first day

Alan Ruttenberg: we might need to move the import and rich annotation to first day [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:15:55 <bijan> Can we swap fragments and imports and RAs?

Bijan Parsia: Can we swap fragments and imports and RAs?

18:15:56 <JeffP> ... since alan won't be in day 2

Jeff Pan: ... since alan won't be in day 2

18:16:25 <JeffP> ian: we could discuss it offline, there are other constraints

Ian Horrocks: we could discuss it offline, there are other constraints [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:16:34 <JeffP> q?

Jeff Pan: q?

18:16:35 <Conrad> Where is the draft agenda?

Conrad Bock: Where is the draft agenda?

18:16:39 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:16:41 <JeffP> ack dlm

Jeff Pan: ack dlm

18:16:42 <alanr> q?http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/F2F.2007.12-Manchester/Agenda

Alan Ruttenberg: q?http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/F2F.2007.12-Manchester/Agenda

18:16:46 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

18:16:49 <jeremy> +1

Jeremy Carroll: +1

18:17:16 <JeffP> alan: we should move the user facing part to later part of the day

Alan Ruttenberg: we should move the user facing part to later part of the day [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:17:26 <dlm> -queue

Deborah McGuinness: -queue

18:17:31 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

18:17:38 <alanr> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Manchester_F2F

Alan Ruttenberg: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Manchester_F2F

18:17:41 <jeremy> Elisa and Deborah are remote participants in UFDTF

Jeremy Carroll: Elisa and Deborah are remote participants in UFDTF

18:18:07 <JeffP> topic: Teleconference 2007.12.05 ?

2. Teleconference 2007.12.05 ?

18:18:13 <jeremy> -1

Jeremy Carroll: -1

18:18:14 <JeffP> alanr: I cannot

Alan Ruttenberg: I cannot [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:18:18 <pfps> there is already a conflicting event on the 5th

Peter Patel-Schneider: there is already a conflicting event on the 5th

18:18:19 <dlm> i think jim h wants to participate in the ufdtf as well

Deborah McGuinness: i think jim h wants to participate in the ufdtf as well

18:18:22 <alanr> -1

Alan Ruttenberg: -1

18:18:22 <bijan> It's traditional not to have such telecons

Bijan Parsia: It's traditional not to have such telecons

18:18:24 <pfps> which is which?

Peter Patel-Schneider: which is which?

18:18:27 <JeffP> -1

Jeff Pan: -1

18:18:27 <bijan> -1

Bijan Parsia: -1

18:18:28 <MichaelSmith> -1 on telecon on 5th

Michael Smith: -1 on telecon on 5th

18:18:29 <ivan> -1

Ivan Herman: -1

18:18:31 <bcuencag> -1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: -1

18:18:33 <pfps> -1

Peter Patel-Schneider: -1

18:18:48 <JeffP> Resolved: no telecon on Dec 5th

RESOLVED: no telecon on Dec 5th

18:18:57 <pfps> transit?  I expect to be in the meeting at the Kro2!

Peter Patel-Schneider: transit? I expect to be in the meeting at the Kro2!

18:19:33 <IanH> Well, that still means no teleconf :-)

Ian Horrocks: Well, that still means no teleconf :-)

18:19:50 <bijan> Functional Syntax and Structural Spec, Semantics, Rdf mapping

Bijan Parsia: Functional Syntax and Structural Spec, Semantics, Rdf mapping

18:19:57 <jeremy> (for me - the issue list is in good shape for reflecting the lack of consensus)

Jeremy Carroll: (for me - the issue list is in good shape for reflecting the lack of consensus)

18:19:57 <bijan> Were the original proposal

Bijan Parsia: Were the original proposal

18:19:58 <JeffP> Topic: Discussions (35 min)

3. Discussions (35 min)

18:20:02 <JeffP> q?

Jeff Pan: q?

18:20:06 <jeremy> q+ to suggest shading ...

Jeremy Carroll: q+ to suggest shading ...

18:20:15 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

18:20:18 <jeremy> Zakim, unmute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, unmute me

18:20:18 <Zakim> jeremy should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should no longer be muted

18:20:21 <alanr> ack jeremy

Alan Ruttenberg: ack jeremy

18:20:21 <Zakim> jeremy, you wanted to suggest shading ...

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy, you wanted to suggest shading ...

18:21:17 <bijan> We have some issues that touch everything so "shady" per se won't work

Bijan Parsia: We have some issues that touch everything so "shady" per se won't work

18:21:17 <JeffP> jeremy: editors might want to relate part of the documents with issues in the issue list

Jeremy Carroll: editors might want to relate part of the documents with issues in the issue list [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:21:25 <bijan> E.g., Typed constructs

Bijan Parsia: E.g., Typed constructs

18:21:38 <JeffP> ian: we need to see whether it is practical

Ian Horrocks: we need to see whether it is practical [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:21:49 <uli> is it me or is there an echo?

Uli Sattler: is it me or is there an echo?

18:21:55 <JeffP> zakim, who is talking?

Jeff Pan: zakim, who is talking?

18:21:55 <jeremy> Zakim, mute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, mute me

18:21:55 <Zakim> jeremy should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should now be muted

18:22:07 <Zakim> JeffP, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Alan (3%), Sandro (44%)

Zakim IRC Bot: JeffP, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Alan (3%), Sandro (44%)

18:22:12 <uli> ah - echo gone!

Uli Sattler: ah - echo gone!

18:22:24 <jeremy> +1 to sandro as an alternative

Jeremy Carroll: +1 to sandro as an alternative

18:22:30 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1

18:22:41 <pfps> how about putting the disclaimer in the document status, pointing to the issue list?

Peter Patel-Schneider: how about putting the disclaimer in the document status, pointing to the issue list?

18:22:45 <jeremy> to my suggestion!

Jeremy Carroll: to my suggestion!

18:22:53 <jeremy> for me yes

Jeremy Carroll: for me yes

18:23:06 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

18:23:06 <jeremy> (yes to RDF Mapping with such riders)

Jeremy Carroll: (yes to RDF Mapping with such riders)

18:23:38 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

18:23:38 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

18:23:43 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:23:44 <pfps> the mapping between sections and issues is not particularly easy

Peter Patel-Schneider: the mapping between sections and issues is not particularly easy

18:23:46 <JeffP> alanr: should issues be written in the beginning part of the sections?

Alan Ruttenberg: should issues be written in the beginning part of the sections? [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:23:52 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

18:23:54 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:24:00 <JeffP> boris: some issues are more meta issues

Boris Motik: some issues are more meta issues [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:24:04 <jeremy> A list of other issues might be good

Jeremy Carroll: A list of other issues might be good

18:24:16 <JeffP> alanr: we meant the specific ones

Alan Ruttenberg: we meant the specific ones [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:24:21 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

18:24:23 <bijan> I think we're in editor's choice space

Bijan Parsia: I think we're in editor's choice space

18:24:28 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me

18:24:28 <Zakim> pfps was not muted, pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was not muted, pfps

18:24:31 <bijan> some issues are minor, don't need huge highlighting

Bijan Parsia: some issues are minor, don't need huge highlighting

18:24:32 <jeremy> I agree with bijan

Jeremy Carroll: I agree with bijan

18:24:32 <alanr> we don't have editors yet

Alan Ruttenberg: we don't have editors yet

18:24:37 <bijan> Some are important and controversial

Bijan Parsia: Some are important and controversial

18:24:41 <JeffP> boris: I meant more issues are meta ones

Boris Motik: I meant more issues are meta ones [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:24:43 <bijan> And need to be highlighted

Bijan Parsia: And need to be highlighted

18:24:48 <IanH> We don't need to insist that every issue is mentioned in some document

Ian Horrocks: We don't need to insist that every issue is mentioned in some document

18:24:56 <alanr> +1 to Ian

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 to Ian

18:25:02 <jeremy> I agree with bijan again!

Jeremy Carroll: I agree with bijan again!

18:25:12 <bijan> How about we task someone(s) to add some issue texts to a document?

Bijan Parsia: How about we task someone(s) to add some issue texts to a document?

18:25:19 <JeffP> boris: and who should do this?

Boris Motik: and who should do this? [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:25:21 <bijan> And experiement a bit

Bijan Parsia: And experiement a bit

18:25:35 <JeffP> alan: we could assign them to some people, including me

Alan Ruttenberg: we could assign them to some people, including me [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:25:53 <JeffP> ian: which document?

Ian Horrocks: which document? [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:26:00 <JeffP> alanr: does not matter

Alan Ruttenberg: does not matter [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:26:19 <pfps> q?

Peter Patel-Schneider: q?

18:26:29 <IanH> ack pfps

Ian Horrocks: ack pfps

18:26:35 <JeffP> sandro: you still need to be familiar with the documents enough to do the job properly

Sandro Hawke: you still need to be familiar with the documents enough to do the job properly [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:26:58 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me

18:26:58 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted

18:27:11 <bijan> Yes

Bijan Parsia: Yes

18:27:16 <bijan> On behalf of carsten

Bijan Parsia: On behalf of carsten

18:27:17 <JeffP> ian: do we need to have such fine-grain issule list mechanism

Ian Horrocks: do we need to have such fine-grain issule list mechanism [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:27:25 <dlm> +1 to grouping

Deborah McGuinness: +1 to grouping

18:27:27 <bijan> I'm big +1 on grouping issues loosely

Bijan Parsia: I'm big +1 on grouping issues loosely

18:27:30 <jeremy> -1 to grouping

Jeremy Carroll: -1 to grouping

18:27:43 <bmotik> +1 to grouping (not all, but some should be grouped)

Boris Motik: +1 to grouping (not all, but some should be grouped)

18:27:49 <JeffP> dlm, it is also hard to follow

Jeff Pan: dlm, it is also hard to follow

18:27:58 <pfps> we are supposed to be spending 8 hours a week on this, minimum

Peter Patel-Schneider: we are supposed to be spending 8 hours a week on this, minimum

18:28:29 <jeremy> (peter's days might be longer than mine! 7.5 hrs)

Jeremy Carroll: (peter's days might be longer than mine! 7.5 hrs)

18:28:42 <JeffP> sandro, do we want a hierartical issue list?

Jeff Pan: sandro, do we want a hierartical issue list?

18:28:43 <bijan> I tried this on rich annotations...addding all the issues related to annotations

Bijan Parsia: I tried this on rich annotations...addding all the issues related to annotations

18:28:47 <bijan> Peter complained about this :)

Bijan Parsia: Peter complained about this :)

18:28:57 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

18:28:57 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

18:29:08 <jeremy> We can group issues by 'product'

Jeremy Carroll: We can group issues by 'product'

18:29:08 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

18:29:08 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted

18:29:22 <JeffP> sandro, we should take a simplified approach

Jeff Pan: sandro, we should take a simplified approach

18:29:34 <jeremy> q+ to explain a separation

Jeremy Carroll: q+ to explain a separation

18:29:46 <JeffP> q?

Jeff Pan: q?

18:29:46 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

18:29:47 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

18:29:51 <jeremy> Zakim, unmute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, unmute me

18:29:51 <Zakim> jeremy should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should no longer be muted

18:29:53 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

18:29:54 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me

18:29:54 <Zakim> pfps was already muted, pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was already muted, pfps

18:29:56 <bijan> How about soem web pages for this

Bijan Parsia: How about soem web pages for this

18:30:04 <JeffP> ian, we just started but we have 81 issues already

Jeff Pan: ian, we just started but we have 81 issues already

18:30:15 <JeffP> ack jeremy

Jeff Pan: ack jeremy

18:30:15 <Zakim> jeremy, you wanted to explain a separation

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy, you wanted to explain a separation

18:30:36 <bijan> Issues are a tool for the chairs

Bijan Parsia: Issues are a tool for the chairs

18:30:36 <jeremy> Zakim, unmute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, unmute me

18:30:36 <Zakim> jeremy was not muted, jeremy

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy was not muted, jeremy

18:30:42 <uli> ha ha

Uli Sattler: ha ha

18:30:46 <bijan> The chairs should figure out what works for them

Bijan Parsia: The chairs should figure out what works for them

18:30:48 <jeremy> Zakim, mute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, mute me

18:30:48 <Zakim> jeremy should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should now be muted

18:31:07 <JeffP> Topic: Publication Schedule and First Public Working Drafts

4. Publication Schedule and First Public Working Drafts

18:31:17 <jeremy> jeremy: lots of small issues are easier to make progress on than a few big issues

Jeremy Carroll: lots of small issues are easier to make progress on than a few big issues [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ]

18:31:40 <JeffP> alanr, a quick poll to see if the solution is acceptable by everyone

Jeff Pan: alanr, a quick poll to see if the solution is acceptable by everyone

18:32:04 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

18:32:11 <bijan> ack bijan

Bijan Parsia: ack bijan

18:32:17 <JeffP> alanr: three documents: syntax, semantics and mapping to RDF

Alan Ruttenberg: three documents: syntax, semantics and mapping to RDF [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:32:54 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

18:32:54 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

18:33:00 <JeffP> q?

Jeff Pan: q?

18:33:01 <jeremy> no we cannot decide to publish docs until they are ready

Jeremy Carroll: no we cannot decide to publish docs until they are ready

18:33:15 <jeremy> I can confirm informally the plan

Jeremy Carroll: I can confirm informally the plan

18:33:17 <bijan> actually, we can

Bijan Parsia: actually, we can

18:33:17 <sandro> PROPOSED: Annotate the Syntax, Semantics, and Mapping-to-RDF documents with links to all issues, as they might affect the text....

PROPOSED: Annotate the Syntax, Semantics, and Mapping-to-RDF documents with links to all issues, as they might affect the text....

18:33:25 <pfps> we can publish subject to editorial changes

Peter Patel-Schneider: we can publish subject to editorial changes

18:33:33 <bijan> We can say, "We will publish these docuemnts pace soem editoral mod...

Bijan Parsia: We can say, "We will publish these docuemnts pace soem editoral mod...

18:34:00 <sandro> PROPOSED: Annotate the Syntax, Semantics, and Mapping-to-RDF documents with links to all issues, as they might affect the text, and then (give or take editorial changes) we will publish.

PROPOSED: Annotate the Syntax, Semantics, and Mapping-to-RDF documents with links to all issues, as they might affect the text, and then (give or take editorial changes) we will publish.

18:34:02 <jeremy> i guess i bow to pfps and bijan here, but some rider

Jeremy Carroll: i guess i bow to pfps and bijan here, but some rider

18:34:28 <pfps> +1, as long as I'm not doing the work!

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1, as long as I'm not doing the work!

18:34:28 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1

18:34:32 <IanH> would prefer to say "issues" rather than all issues

Ian Horrocks: would prefer to say "issues" rather than all issues

18:34:32 <jeremy> ok

Jeremy Carroll: ok

18:34:35 <achille> +1

Achille Fokoue: +1

18:34:36 <uli> +1

Uli Sattler: +1

18:34:39 <dlm> +1

Deborah McGuinness: +1

18:34:40 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

18:34:41 <bijan> +1 with "issues"

Bijan Parsia: +1 with "issues"

18:34:41 <zhe> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

18:34:44 <Conrad> -1

Conrad Bock: -1

18:34:45 <MartinD> +1

Martin Dzbor: +1

18:34:46 <Ratnesh> +1

Ratnesh Sahay: +1

18:34:48 <MichaelSmith> +1

Michael Smith: +1

18:34:48 <IanH> +1 otherwise

Ian Horrocks: +1 otherwise

18:34:49 <GiorgosStoilos> +1

Giorgos Stoilos: +1

18:34:57 <JeffP> +1

Jeff Pan: +1

18:35:00 <sandro> -0 concerned about deciding before deciding, but it seems vaguely okay.

Sandro Hawke: -0 concerned about deciding before deciding, but it seems vaguely okay.

18:35:02 <Carsten> Regarding my issues discussed here:

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: Regarding my issues discussed here:

18:35:03 <Carsten> - I saw lots small issues before, so I was just trying to follow common practice

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: - I saw lots small issues before, so I was just trying to follow common practice

18:35:04 <bcuencag> +1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1

18:35:05 <Carsten> - Several of my issues I wouldn't call "small"

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: - Several of my issues I wouldn't call "small"

18:35:06 <Carsten> - I can live with grouping as long as decisions are taken individually (this

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: - I can live with grouping as long as decisions are taken individually (this

18:35:08 <Carsten>   is why I separated them)

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: is why I separated them)

18:35:10 <Carsten> +1

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: +1

18:35:13 <bmotik> -0 This might be a lot of work

Boris Motik: -0 This might be a lot of work

18:35:17 <ewallace> 0

Evan Wallace: 0

18:36:07 <uli> -0 is the slightly more negative vote than the neutral o?

Uli Sattler: -0 is the slightly more negative vote than the neutral o?

18:36:17 <ewallace> +1 with metamodel issue included

Evan Wallace: +1 with metamodel issue included

18:36:34 <Carsten> -o ?

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: -o ?

18:36:38 <JeffP> sandro, I don't think we should have a resolution here

Jeff Pan: sandro, I don't think we should have a resolution here

18:36:41 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me

18:36:41 <Zakim> pfps was already muted, pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was already muted, pfps

18:36:48 <jeremy> (I find Sandro compelling, but can't say why)

Jeremy Carroll: (I find Sandro compelling, but can't say why)

18:36:54 <JeffP> ... but it seems that it is good enough to proceed?

Jeff Pan: ... but it seems that it is good enough to proceed?

18:36:58 <pfps> that's an action, not a resolution

Peter Patel-Schneider: that's an action, not a resolution

18:36:58 <bijan> It's his air of mystery

Bijan Parsia: It's his air of mystery

18:37:16 <JeffP> sandro, I think people need to review how it is done

Jeff Pan: sandro, I think people need to review how it is done

18:37:41 <bijan> I think the difference between a blessing and vote is not good

Bijan Parsia: I think the difference between a blessing and vote is not good

18:37:44 <jeremy> (Personally I would like to see the post-Wiki doc before the vote)

Jeremy Carroll: (Personally I would like to see the post-Wiki doc before the vote)

18:37:51 <sandro> So the only future discussion will be about issue links.

Sandro Hawke: So the only future discussion will be about issue links.

18:37:56 <jeremy> q+ to put JimH points

Jeremy Carroll: q+ to put JimH points

18:38:00 <JeffP> action or resolution?

Jeff Pan: action or resolution?

18:38:05 <JeffP> q?

Jeff Pan: q?

18:38:08 <ewallace> I'm confused now

Evan Wallace: I'm confused now

18:38:12 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

18:38:12 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted

18:38:21 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:38:25 <ewallace> Are we to do an up or down vote later?

Evan Wallace: Are we to do an up or down vote later?

18:39:35 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

18:39:35 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

18:39:39 <jeremy> q-

Jeremy Carroll: q-

18:39:50 <JeffP> alanr: no resolution but general agreement to the direction

Alan Ruttenberg: no resolution but general agreement to the direction [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:40:12 <ewallace> yes

Evan Wallace: yes

18:40:12 <jeremy> The chairs appoint editors

Jeremy Carroll: The chairs appoint editors

18:40:19 <JeffP> ian, chairs may deligate the tasks

Jeff Pan: ian, chairs may delegate the tasks

18:40:34 <bijan> I hate the idea, but I think UManchester can mobilize some resources to this end

Bijan Parsia: I hate the idea, but I think UManchester can mobilize some resources to this end

18:40:40 <bijan> (er.. the idea of workign on it :)

Bijan Parsia: (er.. the idea of workign on it :)

18:42:12 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

18:42:35 <jeremy> I feel the discussion needs booze

Jeremy Carroll: I feel the discussion needs booze

18:43:19 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

18:43:21 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

18:43:26 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

18:43:44 <JeffP> s/deligate/delegate
18:43:55 <Conrad> Alan, I filed the metamodel issue on Syntax at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/issues/82.

Conrad Bock: Alan, I filed the metamodel issue on Syntax at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/issues/82.

18:44:22 <alanr> thanks, conrad

Alan Ruttenberg: thanks, conrad

18:44:34 <bijan> Hmm. I think it is a fragment

Bijan Parsia: Hmm. I think it is a fragment

18:44:49 <JeffP> boris, owl dl is not 100% sub-language of owl full

Jeff Pan: boris, owl dl is not 100% sub-language of owl full

18:45:13 <bijan> I'm looking at 5.3...what's the difference?

Bijan Parsia: I'm looking at 5.3...what's the difference?

18:45:16 <alanr> qq+

Alan Ruttenberg: qq+

18:45:18 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

18:45:19 <IanH> Also, even to the extent that we believe that it is a fragment, this is a belief/conjecture and not a proven fact

Ian Horrocks: Also, even to the extent that we believe that it is a fragment, this is a belief/conjecture and not a proven fact

18:45:20 <JeffP> q?

Jeff Pan: q?

18:45:22 <alanr> ack bmoik

Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmoik

18:45:26 <alanr> ack bmotik

Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik

18:45:27 <jeremy> q- bmotik

Jeremy Carroll: q- bmotik

18:45:35 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

18:45:42 <bijan> to reply to Boris

Bijan Parsia: to reply to Boris

18:45:44 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:45:51 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

18:45:51 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted

18:46:17 <JeffP> bijan, it seems that part of the issue what counts as compatibility

Jeff Pan: bijan, it seems that part of the issue what counts as compatibility

18:46:24 <sandro> JeffP, the scribe convention is to scribe like "Sandro: what sandro said" not "Sandro, what sandro said"

Sandro Hawke: JeffP, the scribe convention is to scribe like "Sandro: what sandro said" not "Sandro, what sandro said"

18:46:39 <JeffP> thx, sandro

Jeff Pan: thx, sandro

18:47:16 <alanr> There is a strictly increasing chain of sets of entailments

Alan Ruttenberg: There is a strictly increasing chain of sets of entailments

18:47:18 <alanr> >

Alan Ruttenberg: >

18:47:19 <alanr> > Simple <= RDF <= RDFS <= D- <= OWL DL <= OWL Full

Alan Ruttenberg: > Simple <= RDF <= RDFS <= D- <= OWL DL <= OWL Full

18:47:21 <alanr> >

Alan Ruttenberg: >

18:47:22 <alanr> > It was a design goal that the last strict inclusion should be an  equality; see

Alan Ruttenberg: > It was a design goal that the last strict inclusion should be an equality; see

18:47:24 <alanr> >

Alan Ruttenberg: >

18:47:26 <alanr> > http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/webont-issues.html#I5.3-Semantic-Layering

Alan Ruttenberg: > http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/webont-issues.html#I5.3-Semantic-Layering

18:47:28 <alanr> > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2002Oct/0022.html

Alan Ruttenberg: > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2002Oct/0022.html

18:47:29 <JeffP> bijan, your idea is a stronger version of compatibility

Jeff Pan: bijan, your idea is a stronger version of compatibility

18:47:29 <alanr> >

Alan Ruttenberg: >

18:47:31 <alanr> > In other words (subject to the syntactic constraints of OWL DL) the

Alan Ruttenberg: > In other words (subject to the syntactic constraints of OWL DL) the

18:47:32 <alanr> > entailments of OWL DL are exactly those of OWL Full. This goal

Alan Ruttenberg: > entailments of OWL DL are exactly those of OWL Full. This goal

18:47:34 <alanr> > slipped a little: see

Alan Ruttenberg: > slipped a little: see

18:47:35 <alanr> >

Alan Ruttenberg: >

18:47:37 <alanr> > http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-test/byFunction#function-Thing

Alan Ruttenberg: > http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-test/byFunction#function-Thing

18:47:39 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

18:47:40 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

18:47:42 <dlm> +1 to getting clear on a working defn of compatibility

Deborah McGuinness: +1 to getting clear on a working defn of compatibility

18:47:45 <alanr> ack bijan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan

18:47:55 <jeremy> OWL 1.0

Jeremy Carroll: OWL 1.0

18:48:37 <JeffP> ian: we had similar discussion in WebOnt

Ian Horrocks: we had similar discussion in WebOnt [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:48:38 <uli> but the entailments aren't the same.

Uli Sattler: but the entailments aren't the same.

18:49:11 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

18:49:11 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan

18:49:11 <jeremy> THe two known exceptions are size of universe and certain entailments involving annotations

Jeremy Carroll: THe two known exceptions are size of universe and certain entailments involving annotations

18:49:15 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

18:49:15 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

18:49:17 <ivan> ack alanr

Ivan Herman: ack alanr

18:49:35 <JeffP> alanr: I want more compatibility than what is between RDF and OWL

Alan Ruttenberg: I want more compatibility than what is between RDF and OWL [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:50:03 <pfps> where are the new sources of "incompatability"?

Peter Patel-Schneider: where are the new sources of "incompatability"?

18:50:04 <bijan> I agree with alanr...the corner case semantic alignment is much less important than bringing in more wffs

Bijan Parsia: I agree with alanr...the corner case semantic alignment is much less important than bringing in more wffs

18:50:35 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

18:50:38 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:50:53 <JeffP> dlm, it is a good idea to clarify compatibility

Jeff Pan: dlm, it is a good idea to clarify compatibility

18:50:57 <jeremy> Zakim, unmute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, unmute me

18:50:57 <Zakim> jeremy should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should no longer be muted

18:51:46 <bijan> That was a goal of, e.g., adding punnings

Bijan Parsia: That was a goal of, e.g., adding punnings

18:52:03 <bijan> I.e., to align to owl full

Bijan Parsia: I.e., to align to owl full

18:52:19 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

18:52:55 <pfps> my understanding is that semantic-full annotations are the result of not having black triples in RDF

Peter Patel-Schneider: my understanding is that semantic-full annotations are the result of not having dark triples in RDF

18:53:08 <pfps> s/black/dark/
18:53:22 <alanr> s/dark/graphite/
18:53:22 <bijan> I thought we *did* implement anntotions per the spec...I would love a pointer to where this is not the case

Bijan Parsia: I thought we *did* implement anntotions per the spec...I would love a pointer to where this is not the case

18:53:41 <pfps> there is a solution to backward compatability wrt annotations (but I don't like it)

Peter Patel-Schneider: there is a solution to backward compatability wrt annotations (but I don't like it)

18:53:48 <IanH> q+

Ian Horrocks: q+

18:53:52 <bijan> I would love there to be a unity OWL

Bijan Parsia: I would love there to be a unity OWL

18:53:53 <JeffP> q?

Jeff Pan: q?

18:54:07 <alanr> q+ to ask how we can tell whether annotations are correctly implemented

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask how we can tell whether annotations are correctly implemented

18:54:15 <alanr> ack boris

Alan Ruttenberg: ack boris

18:54:17 <jeremy> Zakim, mute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, mute me

18:54:17 <Zakim> jeremy should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should now be muted

18:54:20 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:54:25 <ivan> ack bmotik

Ivan Herman: ack bmotik

18:55:05 <JeffP> boris: one design principle of OWL 1.1 is that ...

Boris Motik: one design principle of OWL 1.1 is that ... [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:55:05 <jeremy> who are users???

Jeremy Carroll: who are users???

18:55:31 <JeffP> boris: annotations have no serious semantics

Boris Motik: annotations have no serious semantics [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:55:49 <jeremy> No Boris said no semantics not 'no serious semantics'

Jeremy Carroll: No Boris said no semantics not 'no serious semantics'

18:55:50 <JeffP> boris: comments are simply comments

Boris Motik: comments are simply comments [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:55:51 <alanr> ack ianh

Alan Ruttenberg: ack ianh

18:56:21 <JeffP> Ian, in the charter we say to refine and extend OWL

Jeff Pan: Ian, in the charter we say to refine and extend OWL

18:56:26 <alanr> three cases of disparity: annotations, punning, (forget third)

Alan Ruttenberg: three cases of disparity: annotations, punning, (forget third)

18:56:35 <alanr> third: bnodes

Scribe problem: the name 'third' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown third: bnodes [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ]

18:56:54 <jeremy> wrong - strong disagreement

Jeremy Carroll: wrong - strong disagreement

18:57:05 <alanr> wrong what, jeremy?

Alan Ruttenberg: wrong what, jeremy?

18:57:11 <jeremy> q+ to defend the quality of Sean's work

Jeremy Carroll: q+ to defend the quality of Sean's work

18:57:28 <JeffP> Ian: an OWL document should be one that could be translated from the one written in abstract syntax

Ian Horrocks: an OWL document should be one that could be translated from the one written in abstract syntax [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:57:34 <JeffP> ... according to the spec

Jeff Pan: ... according to the spec

18:57:50 <JeffP> q?

Jeff Pan: q?

18:57:53 <JeffP> ack alanr

Jeff Pan: ack alanr

18:57:53 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to ask how we can tell whether annotations are correctly implemented

Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to ask how we can tell whether annotations are correctly implemented

18:58:03 <bmotik> Yes, there is

Boris Motik: Yes, there is

18:58:04 <bijan> There seem to be test cases

Bijan Parsia: There seem to be test cases

18:58:08 <IanH> Sean's work was *excellent*, but it shouldn't have been *needed*

Ian Horrocks: Sean's work was *excellent*, but it shouldn't have been *needed*

18:58:17 <jeremy> Zakim, unmute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, unmute me

18:58:17 <Zakim> jeremy should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should no longer be muted

18:58:19 <bmotik> Ontology O1 does not entail O2 even if O1 and O2 are the same save for annotations.

Boris Motik: Ontology O1 does not entail O2 even if O1 and O2 are the same save for annotations.

18:58:45 <JeffP> jeremy, the semantics document is hard to get interpretation

Jeff Pan: jeremy, the semantics document is hard to get interpretation

18:59:06 <JeffP> Ian: this is completely different order

Ian Horrocks: this is completely different order [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

18:59:13 <alanr> Does any tool implement ontology entailment?

Alan Ruttenberg: Does any tool implement ontology entailment?

18:59:18 <bijan> Yes

Bijan Parsia: Yes

18:59:18 <JeffP> ... the semantics document is technical

Jeff Pan: ... the semantics document is technical

18:59:19 <bijan> Pellet

Bijan Parsia: Pellet

18:59:28 <bmotik> We don't know even if it decidable

Boris Motik: We don't know even if it decidable

18:59:31 <JeffP> ... and understood by many people

Jeff Pan: ... and understood by many people

18:59:32 <alanr> Pellet has it commented out last time I checked

Alan Ruttenberg: Pellet has it commented out last time I checked

18:59:36 <bijan> ?

Bijan Parsia: ?

18:59:38 <bijan> No

Bijan Parsia: No

18:59:46 <jeremy> Zakim, mute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, mute me

18:59:46 <Zakim> jeremy should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should now be muted

18:59:55 <bijan> could do more on this

Bijan Parsia: could do more on this

19:00:15 <bmotik> No need to continue now. We should have a strategy to address this issue soon.

Boris Motik: No need to continue now. We should have a strategy to address this issue soon.

19:00:22 <bijan> Usage: java Pellet OPTIONS

Scribe problem: the name 'Usage' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Usage: java Pellet OPTIONS [ Scribe Assist by Bijan Parsia ]

19:00:22 <bijan>  {-if,-inputFile} <file URI>  Input ontology URI

Bijan Parsia: {-if,-inputFile} <file URI> Input ontology URI

19:00:22 <bijan>  {-is,-inputString} string    A string representation of the input file

Bijan Parsia: {-is,-inputString} string A string representation of the input file

19:00:23 <bijan> -cf,-conclusionsFile} <URI> Check if all the triples in this ontology is

Bijan Parsia: -cf,-conclusionsFile} <URI> Check if all the triples in this ontology is

19:00:23 <bijan>                               entailed by the input ontology

Bijan Parsia: entailed by the input ontology

19:00:23 <bijan>  {-cs,-conclusionsString} str A string representation of the conclusions fil

Bijan Parsia: {-cs,-conclusionsString} str A string representation of the conclusions fil

19:00:33 <Carsten> have to leave, sorry

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: have to leave, sorry

19:00:37 <Zakim> -Carsten

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Carsten

19:00:56 <JeffP> Topic: Issues (35 min)

5. Issues (35 min)

19:01:09 <JeffP> Topic: PROPOSAL: Base abbreviated URIs in  Functional-style Syntax on CURIES not QNAMES (see Issue 14)

6. PROPOSAL: Base abbreviated URIs in Functional-style Syntax on CURIES not QNAMES (see ISSUE-14)

19:01:09 <alanr> PROPOSAL: Base abbreviated URIs in Functional-style Syntax on CURIES not QNAMES (see Issue 14)

PROPOSED: Base abbreviated URIs in Functional-style Syntax on CURIES not QNAMES (see ISSUE-14)

19:01:48 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1

19:01:53 <IanH> +1

Ian Horrocks: +1

19:01:56 <pfps> +1 issue-14 proposal

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 ISSUE-14 proposal

19:01:58 <MichaelSmith> +1

Michael Smith: +1

19:02:01 <jeremy> HP abstain (but no desire for further discussion)

Jeremy Carroll: HP abstain (but no desire for further discussion)

19:02:03 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

19:02:04 <ewallace> +1

Evan Wallace: +1

19:02:05 <bcuencag> +1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1

19:02:05 <Ratnesh> +1

Ratnesh Sahay: +1

19:02:06 <achille> +1

Achille Fokoue: +1

19:02:09 <JeffP> 0

Jeff Pan: 0

19:02:12 <bmotik> 0

Boris Motik: 0

19:02:16 <dlm> 0

Deborah McGuinness: 0

19:02:20 <MartinD> 0

Martin Dzbor: 0

19:02:22 <sandro> 0

Sandro Hawke: 0

19:02:23 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

19:02:27 <jeremy> q-

Jeremy Carroll: q-

19:02:29 <JeffP> q?

Jeff Pan: q?

19:02:32 <alanr> ack jeremy

Alan Ruttenberg: ack jeremy

19:02:40 <jeremy> Zakim, mute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, mute me

19:02:40 <Zakim> jeremy should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should now be muted

19:03:19 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

19:03:21 <bmotik> Could someone please point out the main benefit of using CURIES?

Boris Motik: Could someone please point out the main benefit of using CURIES?

19:03:24 <alanr> qck ivan

Alan Ruttenberg: qck ivan

19:03:26 <alanr> ack ivan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan

19:03:27 <JeffP> ivan: it seems that we could do that without too much danger

Ivan Herman: it seems that we could do that without too much danger [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

19:03:35 <pfps> curies allow abbreviating all IRIs

Peter Patel-Schneider: curies allow abbreviating all IRIs

19:03:44 <pfps> qnames don't

Peter Patel-Schneider: qnames don't

19:03:55 <jeremy> The main benefit is ids like http://ex.og/id/9324

Jeremy Carroll: The main benefit is ids like http://ex.og/id/9324

19:03:57 <JeffP> Resolved: Base abbreviated URIs in Functional-style Syntax on CURIES not QNAMES (see Issue 14)

RESOLVED: Base abbreviated URIs in Functional-style Syntax on CURIES not QNAMES (see ISSUE-14)

19:04:08 <JeffP> PROPOSAL: Structural specification, XML Schema, and RDF mapping be extended to allow for multiple facet--value pairs in data ranges (see Issue 28)

PROPOSED: Structural specification, XML Schema, and RDF mapping be extended to allow for multiple facet--value pairs in data ranges (see ISSUE-28)

19:04:16 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1

19:04:20 <JeffP> +1

Jeff Pan: +1

19:04:22 <jeremy> +1

Jeremy Carroll: +1

19:04:22 <ewallace> +1

Evan Wallace: +1

19:04:23 <uli> +1

Uli Sattler: +1

19:04:24 <pfps> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1

19:04:24 <MichaelSmith> +1

Michael Smith: +1

19:04:25 <IanH> +1

Ian Horrocks: +1

19:04:27 <dlm> +1

Deborah McGuinness: +1

19:04:27 <bijan> +1

Bijan Parsia: +1

19:04:29 <MartinD> +1

Martin Dzbor: +1

19:04:31 <GiorgosStoilos> +1

Giorgos Stoilos: +1

19:04:34 <ivan> ivan: what I said is (for the minutes) we can normatively refer to the CURIE document (http://www.w3.org/TR/curie)

Ivan Herman: what I said is (for the minutes) we can normatively refer to the CURIE document (http://www.w3.org/TR/curie) [ Scribe Assist by Ivan Herman ]

19:04:37 <bcuencag> +1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1

19:04:38 <sandro> 0

Sandro Hawke: 0

19:04:39 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

19:04:43 <achille> 0

Achille Fokoue: 0

19:04:50 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1

19:05:30 <JeffP> Resolved: PROPOSAL: Structural specification, XML Schema, and RDF mapping be extended to allow for multiple facet--value pairs in data ranges (see Issue 28)

RESOLVED: PROPOSAL: Structural specification, XML Schema, and RDF mapping be extended to allow for multiple facet--value pairs in data ranges (see ISSUE-28)

19:05:46 <JeffP> PROPOSAL: Issue 64 be resolved as per this email

PROPOSED: ISSUE-64 be resolved as per this email

19:06:05 <MichaelSmith> the email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Nov/0391.html

Michael Smith: the email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Nov/0391.html

19:06:10 <JeffP> object property chains in triples: confusion of list with property

Jeff Pan: object property chains in triples: confusion of list with property

19:06:24 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1

19:06:26 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1

19:06:30 <IanH> +1

Ian Horrocks: +1

19:06:32 <pfps> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1

19:06:32 <sandro> 0

Sandro Hawke: 0

19:06:33 <achille> +1

Achille Fokoue: +1

19:06:35 <MichaelSmith> +1

Michael Smith: +1

19:06:37 <bcuencag> +1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1

19:06:42 <dlm> +1

Deborah McGuinness: +1

19:06:44 <ewallace> 0

Evan Wallace: 0

19:06:45 <MartinD> +1

Martin Dzbor: +1

19:06:45 <uli> +1

Uli Sattler: +1

19:06:49 <JeffP> 0

Jeff Pan: 0

19:06:51 <ivan> 0 (do not remember the detail, but no reason for discussion for me)

Ivan Herman: 0 (do not remember the detail, but no reason for discussion for me)

19:06:52 <jeremy> +1

Jeremy Carroll: +1

19:06:55 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

19:07:10 <bijan> +1

Bijan Parsia: +1

19:07:21 <JeffP> Resolved: Issue 64 be resolved as per this email

RESOLVED: ISSUE-64 be resolved as per this email

19:07:32 <jeremy> q+ to ask about publications

Jeremy Carroll: q+ to ask about publications

19:07:41 <alanr> ack jeremy

Alan Ruttenberg: ack jeremy

19:07:42 <jeremy> Zakim, unmute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, unmute me

19:07:43 <Zakim> jeremy, you wanted to ask about publications

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy, you wanted to ask about publications

19:07:46 <Zakim> jeremy was not muted, jeremy

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy was not muted, jeremy

19:08:16 <jeremy> Zakim, mute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, mute me

19:08:16 <Zakim> jeremy should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should now be muted

19:08:41 <jeremy> OK

Jeremy Carroll: OK

19:09:07 <alanr> Issue 2 revisited: RDF syntax for other "n-ary constructs"? (See [1] and thread.)

Alan Ruttenberg: ISSUE-2 revisited: RDF syntax for other "n-ary constructs"? (See [1] and thread.)

19:09:15 <jeremy> jeremy: do the issues resolved go into abput to be published docs

Jeremy Carroll: do the issues resolved go into abput to be published docs [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ]

19:09:18 <jeremy> alan: yes

Alan Ruttenberg: yes [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ]

19:09:30 <JeffP> thx, jeremy

Jeff Pan: thx, jeremy

19:09:58 <JeffP> (abput?)

Jeff Pan: (about?)

19:10:11 <jeremy> (about)

Jeremy Carroll: (about)

19:10:17 <Zakim> -Vipul_Kashyap

Zakim IRC Bot: -Vipul_Kashyap

19:10:18 <bmotik> Yes

Boris Motik: Yes

19:10:23 <JeffP> s/abput/about
19:10:36 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

19:10:40 <alanr> acl peter

Alan Ruttenberg: acl peter

19:10:40 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me

19:10:40 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted

19:10:43 <alanr> ack peter

Alan Ruttenberg: ack peter

19:10:49 <bmotik> Yes

Boris Motik: Yes

19:10:56 <alanr> q+ alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ alanr

19:11:01 <alanr> ack pfps

Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps

19:11:01 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

19:11:03 <jeremy> I am against

Jeremy Carroll: I am against

19:11:16 <uli> against what

Uli Sattler: against what

19:11:19 <uli> ?

Uli Sattler: ?

19:11:23 <sandro> Zakim, list attendees

Sandro Hawke: Zakim, list attendees

19:11:23 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been jeremy, MIchaelSmith, bmotik, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, achille, bijan, Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD, pfps, Evan_Wallace, IanH, Conrad, uli, Sandro,

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been jeremy, MIchaelSmith, bmotik, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, achille, bijan, Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD, pfps, Evan_Wallace, IanH, Conrad, uli, Sandro,

19:11:23 <JeffP> pfps: I am not conviced that it would solve the round-tripping problem (?)

Peter Patel-Schneider: I am not conviced that it would solve the round-tripping problem (?) [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

19:11:24 <jeremy> against more vocab

Jeremy Carroll: against more vocab

19:11:27 <Zakim> ... bcuencag, Ratnesh, Deb, zhe, GiorgosStoilos, Carsten

Zakim IRC Bot: ... bcuencag, Ratnesh, Deb, zhe, GiorgosStoilos, Carsten

19:11:27 <pfps> what about the case for n=2?

Peter Patel-Schneider: what about the case for n=2?

19:11:32 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me

19:11:32 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted

19:11:45 <JeffP> q?

Jeff Pan: q?

19:11:49 <bijan> With suitable annotations, we could round trip without new vocab!

Bijan Parsia: With suitable annotations, we could round trip without new vocab!

19:11:58 <pfps> agreed

Peter Patel-Schneider: agreed

19:11:59 <IanH> against adding explicit rdf syntax for all n-ary constructs

Ian Horrocks: against adding explicit rdf syntax for all n-ary constructs

19:12:00 <sandro> zakim, who is on the phone?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the phone?

19:12:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see jeremy (muted), achille, bmotik, MichaelSmith, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, pfps (muted), bijan (muted), uli (muted), MartinD (muted), Ratnesh, Evan_Wallace, IanH, Conrad,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see jeremy (muted), achille, bmotik, MichaelSmith, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, pfps (muted), bijan (muted), uli (muted), MartinD (muted), Ratnesh, Evan_Wallace, IanH, Conrad,

19:12:00 <alanr> ack alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr

19:12:02 <ivan> ack alanr

Ivan Herman: ack alanr

19:12:03 <alanr> ack boris

Alan Ruttenberg: ack boris

19:12:04 <Zakim> ... Sandro, bcuencag (muted), Deb, zhe, GiorgosStoilos

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Sandro, bcuencag (muted), Deb, zhe, GiorgosStoilos

19:12:16 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

19:12:20 <alanr> ack bmotik

Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik

19:13:10 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:13:11 <JeffP> boris, the spec should be more implementable

Jeff Pan: boris, the spec should be more implementable

19:13:14 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

19:13:14 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted

19:13:39 <sandro> Present: Jeremy, Achille, bmotik, MichaelSmith, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, pfps, bijan, uli, MartinD, Ratnesh, Evan_Wallace, IanH, Conrad, Sandro, bcuencag, Deb, zhe, GiorgosStoilos, Vipul_Kashyap, Conrad, Carsten

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 43 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu

19:14:25 <JeffP> bijan: need to make things easier

Bijan Parsia: need to make things easier [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

19:14:31 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

19:14:31 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

19:15:12 <bijan> Oh, I have users who really like nice serializations...that was a big deal

Bijan Parsia: Oh, I have users who really like nice serializations...that was a big deal

19:15:20 <bijan> So I would like to reduce *parser* freedom

Bijan Parsia: So I would like to reduce *parser* freedom

19:15:32 <bijan> (sorry, illness making me think slow...)

Bijan Parsia: (sorry, illness making me think slow...)

19:15:52 <bijan> IT's not just an implementator issue, but a user issue

Bijan Parsia: IT's not just an implementator issue, but a user issue

19:16:30 <bijan> Not if you use the binary constructs

Bijan Parsia: Not if you use the binary constructs

19:16:58 <JeffP> alanr: if so, then an OWL DL ontology could become something not a proper OWL DlL ontology after some parsing

Alan Ruttenberg: if so, then an OWL DL ontology could become something not a proper OWL DlL ontology after some parsing [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

19:17:00 <bijan> I think Protege4 is using some aggressive pretty printing

Bijan Parsia: I think Protege4 is using some aggressive pretty printing

19:17:25 <jeremy> (for me this is hitting the bigger issues about what are the goals ....)

Jeremy Carroll: (for me this is hitting the bigger issues about what are the goals ....)

19:17:40 <IanH> Yes, I guess that P4 "helps" you by turning multiple binary into an nary?

Ian Horrocks: Yes, I guess that P4 "helps" you by turning multiple binary into an nary?

19:17:49 <alanr> this is not a help

Alan Ruttenberg: this is not a help

19:17:49 <bijan> It may

Bijan Parsia: It may

19:17:53 <pfps> but what if you are building an OWL 1.0 ontology in Protege?  then you would generate OWL 1.1, not OWL 1.0, in the RDF

Peter Patel-Schneider: but what if you are building an OWL 1.0 ontology in Protege? then you would generate OWL 1.1, not OWL 1.0, in the RDF

19:18:13 <bijan> Yep...this may be a bug in the serializer

Bijan Parsia: Yep...this may be a bug in the serializer

19:18:13 <Zakim> -Conrad

Zakim IRC Bot: -Conrad

19:18:16 <uli> ...but this is about P4 and not about "what is possible/should be done"

Uli Sattler: ...but this is about P4 and not about "what is possible/should be done"

19:18:39 <IanH> but this is a tool issue

Ian Horrocks: but this is a tool issue

19:18:39 <JeffP> is this n-ary thing done by Protete using the well known design pattern for n-ary relations?

Jeff Pan: is this n-ary thing done by Protete using the well known design pattern for n-ary relations?

19:18:54 <IanH> P4 should allow you to explicitly save as 1.0

Ian Horrocks: P4 should allow you to explicitly save as 1.0

19:19:09 <bijan> It should respect how you construct

Bijan Parsia: It should respect how you construct

19:19:09 <IanH> See numerous Microsoft tools for details

Ian Horrocks: See numerous Microsoft tools for details

19:19:23 <bijan> That's the intend of the roundtripping design

Bijan Parsia: That's the intend of the roundtripping design

19:19:24 <JeffP> alanr: annotation properties would be changed too

Alan Ruttenberg: annotation properties would be changed too [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

19:19:25 <uli> But Alan, these are still P4 issues -- or are any of them due to OWL1.1?

Uli Sattler: But Alan, these are still P4 issues -- or are any of them due to OWL1.1?

19:20:05 <jeremy> Zakim, unmute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, unmute me

19:20:05 <Zakim> jeremy should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should no longer be muted

19:20:12 <IanH> Q+

Ian Horrocks: Q+

19:20:12 <JeffP> (maybe we should take this offline)

Jeff Pan: (maybe we should take this offline)

19:20:18 <JeffP> zakim, who is talking?

Jeff Pan: zakim, who is talking?

19:20:29 <jeremy> Zakim, mute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, mute me

19:20:29 <Zakim> jeremy should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should now be muted

19:20:30 <Zakim> JeffP, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: jeremy (5%), Alan (39%)

Zakim IRC Bot: JeffP, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: jeremy (5%), Alan (39%)

19:20:32 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

19:20:32 <JeffP> q?

Jeff Pan: q?

19:20:32 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:20:57 <JeffP> Ian, I think this is a tool issue rather than a language issue

Jeff Pan: Ian, I think this is a tool issue rather than a language issue

19:21:43 <Zakim> -jeremy

Zakim IRC Bot: -jeremy

19:21:43 <JeffP> ... tools supporting OWL 1.1 will produce OWL1.1 files by default

Jeff Pan: ... tools supporting OWL 1.1 will produce OWL1.1 files by default

19:21:44 <bijan> But you need to distinguish the tool issues from langauge issues

Bijan Parsia: But you need to distinguish the tool issues from langauge issues

19:21:55 <jeremy> Please let me know when we are on topic

Jeremy Carroll: Please let me know when we are on topic

19:22:02 <ivan> :-)

Ivan Herman: :-)

19:22:10 <jeremy> and I will rejoin

Jeremy Carroll: and I will rejoin

19:22:14 <achille> +1 for Ian's view that it is a tool issue

Achille Fokoue: +1 for Ian's view that it is a tool issue

19:22:19 <bijan> Round tripping, as boris described, should work fine. If protege does some munging in its serialization...that's different

Bijan Parsia: Round tripping, as boris described, should work fine. If protege does some munging in its serialization...that's different

19:22:24 <JeffP> rool call on issue 2?

Jeff Pan: rool call on ISSUE-2?

19:22:27 <alanr> roll call on issue 2 revisited?

Alan Ruttenberg: roll call on ISSUE-2 revisited?

19:22:33 <jeremy> -1

Jeremy Carroll: -1

19:22:36 <bmotik> +1 to extend all n-ary constructs to n-ary

Boris Motik: +1 to extend all n-ary constructs to n-ary

19:22:39 <JeffP> Issue 2 revisited: RDF syntax for other "n-ary constructs"? (See [1] and thread.)

Jeff Pan: ISSUE-2 revisited: RDF syntax for other "n-ary constructs"? (See [1] and thread.)

19:22:40 <bijan> Yeah, what'st he resolution?

Bijan Parsia: Yeah, what'st he resolution?

19:22:53 <uli> did we not already do this call?

Uli Sattler: did we not already do this call?

19:22:58 <pfps> no proposal was in the minutes

Peter Patel-Schneider: no proposal was in the agenda

19:23:01 <IanH> +1 to either extend all n-ary constructs to n-ary or remove them from functional syntax

Ian Horrocks: +1 to either extend all n-ary constructs to n-ary or remove them from functional syntax

19:23:20 <pfps> s/minutes/agenda/
19:23:23 <bijan> IanH, really?

Bijan Parsia: IanH, really?

19:23:31 <bijan> Including AllDisjoint?

Bijan Parsia: Including AllDisjoint?

19:23:47 <IanH> yes -- I want the various syntaxes to be properly aligned

Ian Horrocks: yes -- I want the various syntaxes to be properly aligned

19:23:47 <jeremy> AllDisjoint was solved and agreed

Jeremy Carroll: AllDisjoint was solved and agreed

19:24:05 <bijan> That was my understanding too, jeremy

Bijan Parsia: That was my understanding too, jeremy

19:24:23 <bijan> IanH do you propose reopening AllDisjoint? What about AllDifferent?

Bijan Parsia: IanH do you propose reopening AllDisjoint? What about AllDifferent?

19:24:25 <uli> mine too, Jeremy

Uli Sattler: mine too, Jeremy

19:24:29 <IanH> My preference would be to extend the RDF, not emasculate the functional syntax

Ian Horrocks: My preference would be to extend the RDF, not emasculate the functional syntax

19:24:42 <alanr> alldifferent is already in this form in 1.0 iirc

Alan Ruttenberg: alldifferent is already in this form in 1.0 iirc

19:24:47 <IanH> I don't ropose reopening AllDisjoint? What about AllDifferent? -- they are in alignment

Ian Horrocks: I don't ropose reopening AllDisjoint? What about AllDifferent? -- they are in alignment

19:24:52 <jeremy> yes

Jeremy Carroll: yes

19:24:52 <pfps> what about objectunionof, objectintersectionof?

Peter Patel-Schneider: what about objectunionof, objectintersectionof?

19:25:04 <bijan> Can we move this to email?

Bijan Parsia: Can we move this to email?

19:25:38 <JeffP> Ian, I would like to see some alignment between the two syntax

Jeff Pan: Ian, I would like to see some alignment between the two syntax

19:25:54 <Zakim> +jeremy

Zakim IRC Bot: +jeremy

19:26:03 <jeremy> zakim, mute me

Jeremy Carroll: zakim, mute me

19:26:03 <Zakim> jeremy should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should now be muted

19:26:10 <ewallace> agree with Ivan, but can we have an action to record where we are on this

Evan Wallace: agree with Ivan, but can we have an action to record where we are on this

19:26:12 <bijan> sire

Bijan Parsia: sire

19:26:17 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

19:26:17 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted

19:26:17 <ivan> :-)

Ivan Herman: :-)

19:26:24 <JeffP> Topic: RIF meeting

7. RIF meeting

19:26:37 <alanr> open to suggestions of which one might have been easier :)

Alan Ruttenberg: open to suggestions of which one might have been easier :)

19:26:47 <JeffP> bijan, there is a draft on compatibility between RIF and OWL

Jeff Pan: bijan, there is a draft on compatibility between RIF and OWL

19:26:53 <alanr> apologies for taking liberty with chair

Alan Ruttenberg: apologies for taking liberty with chair

19:27:04 <pfps> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/SWC/OWL-Compatibility

Peter Patel-Schneider: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/SWC/OWL-Compatibility

19:27:06 <JeffP> ... people suggested RIF should talk to us on it

Jeff Pan: ... people suggested RIF should talk to us on it

19:27:34 <JeffP> ... proposed a joint TF

Jeff Pan: ... proposed a joint TF

19:27:50 <JeffP> ... between the two WGs

Jeff Pan: ... between the two WGs

19:28:10 <JeffP> alanr: do we need nominate someone?

Alan Ruttenberg: do we need nominate someone? [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

19:28:27 <JeffP> Sandro: we didn't remember the exact number

Sandro Hawke: we didn't remember the exact number [ Scribe Assist by Jeff Pan ]

19:28:44 <JeffP> bijan, ChrisW will contact the chairs of this WG

Jeff Pan: bijan, ChrisW will contact the chairs of this WG

19:29:11 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

19:29:13 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

19:29:27 <uli> bye bye

Uli Sattler: bye bye

19:29:28 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: -Evan_Wallace

19:29:30 <bmotik> bye

Boris Motik: bye

19:29:34 <MichaelSmith> bye

Michael Smith: bye

19:29:35 <Zakim> -IanH

Zakim IRC Bot: -IanH

19:29:36 <Zakim> -jeremy

Zakim IRC Bot: -jeremy

19:29:36 <Zakim> -bcuencag

Zakim IRC Bot: -bcuencag

19:29:37 <Zakim> -uli

Zakim IRC Bot: -uli

19:29:38 <achille> bye

Achille Fokoue: bye

19:29:39 <Zakim> -MichaelSmith

Zakim IRC Bot: -MichaelSmith

19:29:40 <ivan> bye bye, see some of you next week in Manchester

Ivan Herman: bye bye, see some of you next week in Manchester

19:29:40 <Ratnesh3> bye

Ratnesh Sahay: bye

19:29:40 <Zakim> -bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik

19:29:41 <Zakim> -Alan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Alan

19:29:42 <Zakim> -GiorgosStoilos

Zakim IRC Bot: -GiorgosStoilos

19:29:43 <Zakim> -zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: -zhe

19:29:44 <Zakim> -MartinD

Zakim IRC Bot: -MartinD

19:29:46 <Zakim> -bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan

19:29:48 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

19:29:50 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

19:29:52 <Zakim> -Deb

Zakim IRC Bot: -Deb

19:29:54 <Zakim> -achille

Zakim IRC Bot: -achille

19:29:56 <Zakim> -pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps

19:30:00 <Zakim> -Ratnesh

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ratnesh

19:30:05 <sandro> JeffP, can you hang on for 2 minutes?

Sandro Hawke: JeffP, can you hang on for 2 minutes?

19:30:08 <sandro> (on IRC)

Sandro Hawke: (on IRC)

19:30:11 <JeffP> ok

Jeff Pan: ok

19:30:14 <Zakim> -JeffP

Zakim IRC Bot: -JeffP

19:30:16 <Zakim> SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended

19:30:18 <Zakim> Attendees were jeremy, MIchaelSmith, bmotik, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, achille, bijan, Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD, pfps, Evan_Wallace, IanH, Conrad, uli, Sandro, bcuencag, Ratnesh, Deb, zhe,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were jeremy, MIchaelSmith, bmotik, Alan, JeffP, Ivan, achille, bijan, Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD, pfps, Evan_Wallace, IanH, Conrad, uli, Sandro, bcuencag, Ratnesh, Deb, zhe,

19:30:20 <Zakim> ... GiorgosStoilos, Carsten

Zakim IRC Bot: ... GiorgosStoilos, Carsten

19:30:47 <bijan> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/SWC/OWL-Compatibility

Bijan Parsia: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/SWC/OWL-Compatibility

19:31:57 <sandro> Thanks, Bijan!

Sandro Hawke: Thanks, Bijan!

19:32:15 <bijan> np, kitchen dude

Bijan Parsia: np, kitchen dude

19:32:25 <sandro> or scribe-helping dude right now

Sandro Hawke: or scribe-helping dude right now

19:32:33 <JeffP> :-)

Jeff Pan: :-)

19:33:06 <bijan> I was tempted to retort "What, you don't have a web browser in the kitchen? Isn't that a w3c team requriement?"

Bijan Parsia: I was tempted to retort "What, you don't have a web browser in the kitchen? Isn't that a w3c team requriement?"

19:33:26 <JeffP> haha

Jeff Pan: haha

19:34:06 <sandro> Anyway, Jeff, I think http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2007.11.28/Minutes is now ready for you.

Sandro Hawke: Anyway, Jeff, I think http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2007.11.28/Minutes is now ready for you.

19:34:45 <sandro> There are lot of [BOT] lines which can be simply deleted.   If any lines are marked BOT when they should not be, or aren't when they should be, please let me know.

Sandro Hawke: There are lot of [BOT] lines which can be simply deleted. If any lines are marked BOT when they should not be, or aren't when they should be, please let me know.

19:34:56 <sandro> simple deleted after reading them.  :)

Sandro Hawke: simple deleted after reading them. :)

19:35:06 <JeffP> ok

Jeff Pan: ok

19:35:31 <sandro> okay later!

Sandro Hawke: okay later!

19:35:37 <JeffP> bye

Jeff Pan: bye



Formatted by CommonScribe