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OWL Working Group

Minutes of 19 November 2007

Seen
Alan Ruttenberg, Bijan Parsia, Michael Smith, Uli Sattler, Unknown Carsten, Unknown jjc
Scribe
Michael Smith
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics

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17:00:34 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/19-owl-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/19-owl-irc

17:00:48 <Zakim> +Carsten

Zakim IRC Bot: +Carsten

17:01:03 <Zakim> +MikeSmith

Zakim IRC Bot: +MikeSmith

17:01:28 <MikeSmith> ok, seemed to just need the zakim invite to open things up

Michael Smith: ok, seemed to just need the zakim invite to open things up

17:01:29 <Carsten> zakim, mute me

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: zakim, mute me

17:01:29 <Zakim> Carsten should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Carsten should now be muted

17:01:42 <Zakim> +??P6

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P6

17:01:49 <bijan> zakim, ??p6 is me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, ??p6 is me

17:01:49 <Zakim> +bijan; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan; got it

17:01:56 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

17:01:56 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

17:02:14 <Zakim> +Alan_Ruttenberg

Zakim IRC Bot: +Alan_Ruttenberg

17:02:50 <MikeSmith> zakim, who is on the call

Michael Smith: zakim, who is on the call

17:02:50 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the call', MikeSmith

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is on the call', MikeSmith

17:03:29 <MikeSmith> zakim, who's here?

Michael Smith: zakim, who's here?

17:03:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P2 (muted), +44.789.107.aaaa (muted), Carsten (muted), MikeSmith, bijan (muted), Alan_Ruttenberg

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P2 (muted), +44.789.107.aaaa (muted), Carsten (muted), MikeSmith, bijan (muted), Alan_Ruttenberg

17:03:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Carsten, MikeSmith, uli, bijan, sandro, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Carsten, MikeSmith, uli, bijan, sandro, trackbot-ng

17:03:46 <uli> zakim, ??P2 is me

Uli Sattler: zakim, ??P2 is me

17:03:51 <Zakim> +uli; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +uli; got it

17:04:15 <uli> jeremy

Uli Sattler: jeremy

17:04:19 <bijan> alanr

Bijan Parsia: alanr

17:05:03 <uli> do we have an agenda?

Uli Sattler: do we have an agenda?

17:05:22 <MikeSmith> Agenda at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/DataType.Telecon.2007.11.19/Agenda

Michael Smith: Agenda at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/DataType.Telecon.2007.11.19/Agenda

17:08:33 <MikeSmith> mike: introduces agenda, rqmts for in-line, external data types

Michael Smith: introduces agenda, rqmts for in-line, external data types [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ]

17:08:46 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

17:08:46 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted

17:08:58 <bijan> http://protege.stanford.edu/plugins/owl/xsp.html

Bijan Parsia: http://protege.stanford.edu/plugins/owl/xsp.html

17:09:13 <MikeSmith> alanr: innteresting to hear what the motivation is for in-line datatypes.  what would go wrong with just external?

Alan Ruttenberg: innteresting to hear what the motivation is for in-line datatypes. what would go wrong with just external? [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ]

17:09:56 <MikeSmith> bijan: people don't like having definitions in external file, experience from Protege 3.x

Bijan Parsia: people don't like having definitions in external file, experience from Protege 3.x [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ]

17:10:49 <MikeSmith> bijan: avoid overhead for always naming types

Bijan Parsia: avoid overhead for always naming types [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ]

17:11:52 <MikeSmith> alanr: is there an argument that necessitates a separate syntax for RDF/OWL?

Alan Ruttenberg: is there an argument that necessitates a separate syntax for RDF/OWL? [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ]

17:12:16 <MikeSmith> bijan: the argument is that its not clear tools could find XML Schema syntax in-line

Bijan Parsia: the argument is that its not clear tools could find XML Schema syntax in-line [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ]

17:12:28 <MikeSmith> q?

Michael Smith: q?

17:12:57 <MikeSmith> bijan: some argue its more familiar for people from RDF background

Bijan Parsia: some argue its more familiar for people from RDF background [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ]

17:13:11 <uli> q+

Uli Sattler: q+

17:13:33 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

17:13:33 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

17:13:55 <MikeSmith> ack

Michael Smith: ack

17:14:00 <MikeSmith> q+ alan

Michael Smith: q+ alan

17:14:47 <MikeSmith> zakim, +44.789,107.aaaa is jeremy

Michael Smith: zakim, +44.789,107.aaaa is jeremy

17:14:47 <Zakim> sorry, MikeSmith, I do not recognize a party named '+44.789,107.aaaa'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, MikeSmith, I do not recognize a party named '+44.789,107.aaaa'

17:14:51 <MikeSmith> zakim, +44.789,107.aaaa is jjc

Michael Smith: zakim, +44.789,107.aaaa is jjc

17:14:51 <Zakim> sorry, MikeSmith, I do not recognize a party named '+44.789,107.aaaa'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, MikeSmith, I do not recognize a party named '+44.789,107.aaaa'

17:14:58 <MikeSmith> zakim, +aaaa is jjc

Michael Smith: zakim, +aaaa is jjc

17:14:58 <Zakim> sorry, MikeSmith, I do not recognize a party named '+aaaa'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, MikeSmith, I do not recognize a party named '+aaaa'

17:15:03 <MikeSmith> zakim, aaaa is jjc

Michael Smith: zakim, aaaa is jjc

17:15:03 <Zakim> +jjc; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jjc; got it

17:15:39 <MikeSmith> jjc: unnamed datatypes are advantageous, use-case for in-line user defined datatypes

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: unnamed datatypes are advantageous, use-case for in-line user defined datatypes [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ]

17:16:03 <MikeSmith> q- jjc

Michael Smith: q- jjc

17:16:23 <Zakim> -Alan_Ruttenberg

Zakim IRC Bot: -Alan_Ruttenberg

17:16:49 <MikeSmith> jjc: issue with serialization of XMLLiterals in RDF/XML, particularly qnames in attributes

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: issue with serialization of XMLLiterals in RDF/XML, particularly qnames in attributes [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ]

17:17:13 <MikeSmith> q- aaaa

Michael Smith: q- aaaa

17:17:15 <Zakim> +Alan_Ruttenberg

Zakim IRC Bot: +Alan_Ruttenberg

17:17:21 <MikeSmith> q-

Michael Smith: q-

17:17:46 <MikeSmith> acks next

Michael Smith: acks next

17:18:20 <MikeSmith> acks uli

Michael Smith: acks uli

17:18:42 <MikeSmith> uli: issue with XML schema types is closely related to using other types in OWL

Uli Sattler: issue with XML schema types is closely related to using other types in OWL [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ]

17:18:47 <bijan> http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-c14n#NoNSPrefixRewriting

Bijan Parsia: http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-c14n#NoNSPrefixRewriting

17:19:07 <bijan> q+ to reply to uli

Bijan Parsia: q+ to reply to uli

17:20:02 <bijan> I can almost define rationals in xml schema

Bijan Parsia: I can almost define rationals in xml schema

17:20:16 <bijan> Definiteately in XML schema + an additional constraint

Bijan Parsia: Definiteately in XML schema + an additional constraint

17:20:19 <MikeSmith> acks alan

Michael Smith: acks alan

17:20:34 <MikeSmith> zakim, who's talking

Michael Smith: zakim, who's talking

17:20:34 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's talking', MikeSmith

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who's talking', MikeSmith

17:20:39 <MikeSmith> zakim, who is talking

Michael Smith: zakim, who is talking

17:20:39 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is talking', MikeSmith

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is talking', MikeSmith

17:20:44 <uli> bijan, ...i see - but will they look like the "true" xml schema types?

Uli Sattler: bijan, ...i see - but will they look like the "true" xml schema types?

17:20:50 <bijan> yep

Bijan Parsia: yep

17:20:54 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

17:20:54 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted

17:21:25 <MikeSmith> acks bijan

Michael Smith: acks bijan

17:21:25 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to reply to uli

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to reply to uli

17:21:46 <MikeSmith> alan: concern over defiing, e.g. owl:rational

Alan Ruttenberg: concern over defiing, e.g. owl:rational [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ]

17:22:19 <MikeSmith> bijan: owl extensibility requires URIs.  owl:rational could be defined, doesn't seem to be a big deal

Bijan Parsia: owl extensibility requires URIs. owl:rational could be defined, doesn't seem to be a big deal [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ]

17:23:12 <MikeSmith> bijan: clarifying Uli, Alan, are you saying reusing XML Schema syntax might put burden on future datatypes

Bijan Parsia: clarifying Uli, Alan, are you saying reusing XML Schema syntax might put burden on future datatypes [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ]

17:23:25 <MikeSmith> uli: concern was that other datatypes look like native types

Uli Sattler: concern was that other datatypes look like native types [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ]

17:23:36 <MikeSmith> bijan: yes, I believe that they would

Bijan Parsia: yes, I believe that they would [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ]

17:23:58 <MikeSmith> bijan: we could use a relax ng type syntax as an inline syntax

Bijan Parsia: we could use a relax ng type syntax as an inline syntax [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ]

17:24:00 <MikeSmith> q?

Michael Smith: q?

17:24:25 <MikeSmith> acks jjc

Michael Smith: acks jjc

17:24:55 <MikeSmith> jjc: take it that XML Schema types are a given, largely b/c OWL 1.0 supported XML Schema types

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: take it that XML Schema types are a given, largely b/c OWL 1.0 supported XML Schema types [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ]

17:25:12 <MikeSmith> jjc: query about how the value space mapping for rational could work

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: query about how the value space mapping for rational could work [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ]

17:25:21 <MikeSmith> q?

Michael Smith: q?

17:26:19 <MikeSmith> discussion of representation of rational as pair of integers

Michael Smith: discussion of representation of rational as pair of integers

17:26:38 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

17:26:38 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

17:29:19 <MikeSmith> discussion of XSCD, what they offer, are needed

Michael Smith: discussion of XSCD, what they offer, are needed

17:29:55 <MikeSmith> jjc: the rqmt for us, is less than all of XSCD. we could take less of a solution if it provided re-usable URIs

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: the rqmt for us, is less than all of XSCD. we could take less of a solution if it provided re-usable URIs [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ]

17:30:22 <MikeSmith> a query has been sent to the XML Schema WG chair on the status of XSCD

Michael Smith: a query has been sent to the XML Schema WG chair on the status of XSCD

17:32:21 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

17:32:21 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted

17:33:06 <MikeSmith> alanr: can we say that if URI is present you can reference external

Alan Ruttenberg: can we say that if URI is present you can reference external [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ]

17:33:08 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

17:33:08 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

17:33:24 <MikeSmith> alanr: suggest we move forward with that proposal, on Wed telecon

Alan Ruttenberg: suggest we move forward with that proposal, on Wed telecon [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ]

17:34:13 <Zakim> -jjc

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -jjc

17:34:15 <Zakim> -Carsten

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Carsten

17:34:15 <uli> bye

Uli Sattler: bye

17:34:15 <Zakim> -bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan

17:34:17 <Zakim> -Alan_Ruttenberg

Zakim IRC Bot: -Alan_Ruttenberg

17:34:17 <Zakim> -MikeSmith

Zakim IRC Bot: -MikeSmith

17:34:24 <Zakim> -uli

Zakim IRC Bot: -uli

17:34:26 <Zakim> SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended

17:34:27 <Zakim> Attendees were MikeSmith, +44.789.107.aaaa, Carsten, bijan, Alan_Ruttenberg, uli, jjc

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were MikeSmith, +44.789.107.aaaa, Carsten, bijan, Alan_Ruttenberg, uli, jjc

17:34:57 <MikeSmith> scribenick: mikesmith

(Scribe set to Michael Smith)

17:35:08 <MikeSmith> scribenick:  MikeSmith
17:35:21 <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make record public

RRSAgent, make record public

17:42:40 <MikeSmith> rrsagent, publish minutes

(No events recorded for 7 minutes)

rrsagent, publish minutes

17:42:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/19-owl-minutes.html MikeSmith

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/19-owl-minutes.html MikeSmith

17:56:04 <MikeSmith> zakim, leave

(No events recorded for 13 minutes)

zakim, leave



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