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17:24:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-owl-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-owl-irc ←
17:24:12 <jjc> Zakim, this is SW_OWL
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: Zakim, this is SW_OWL ←
17:24:12 <Zakim> jjc, I see SW_OWL()12:30PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be SW_OWL".
Zakim IRC Bot: jjc, I see SW_OWL()12:30PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be SW_OWL". ←
17:24:23 <jjc> Zakim, this will be SW_OWL
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: Zakim, this will be SW_OWL ←
17:24:23 <Zakim> ok, jjc; I see SW_OWL()12:30PM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, jjc; I see SW_OWL()12:30PM scheduled to start in 6 minutes ←
17:24:52 <jjc> Zakim, who's on the phone?
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: Zakim, who's on the phone? ←
17:24:52 <Zakim> SW_OWL()12:30PM has not yet started, jjc
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()12:30PM has not yet started, jjc ←
17:24:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, jjc, vipul, pfps, sandro, ewallace, trackbot-ng
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, jjc, vipul, pfps, sandro, ewallace, trackbot-ng ←
17:25:03 <Zakim> SW_OWL()12:30PM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()12:30PM has now started ←
17:25:04 <Zakim> +Conrad
Zakim IRC Bot: +Conrad ←
17:26:12 <Zakim> +Vipul_Kashyap
Zakim IRC Bot: +Vipul_Kashyap ←
17:26:14 <Zakim> -Vipul_Kashyap
Zakim IRC Bot: -Vipul_Kashyap ←
17:26:16 <Zakim> +Vipul_Kashyap
Zakim IRC Bot: +Vipul_Kashyap ←
17:26:55 <Zakim> +??P9
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9 ←
17:27:04 <jjc> Zakim, ??P9 is me
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: Zakim, ??P9 is me ←
17:27:04 <Zakim> +jjc; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jjc; got it ←
17:28:49 <Zakim> +??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10 ←
17:28:54 <MartinD> zakim, ??p10 is me
Martin Dzbor: zakim, ??p10 is me ←
17:28:54 <Zakim> +MartinD; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MartinD; got it ←
17:29:55 <MartinD> zakim, mute me
Martin Dzbor: zakim, mute me ←
17:29:55 <Zakim> MartinD should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MartinD should now be muted ←
17:32:05 <JeremyCarroll> Zakim, who's on the call?
Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, who's on the call? ←
17:32:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see Conrad, Vipul_Kashyap, jjc, MartinD (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Conrad, Vipul_Kashyap, jjc, MartinD (muted) ←
17:32:15 <JeremyCarroll> Zakim, jjc is JeremyCarroll
Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, jjc is JeremyCarroll ←
17:32:15 <Zakim> +JeremyCarroll; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +JeremyCarroll; got it ←
17:32:34 <Zakim> +??P11
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11 ←
17:33:01 <JeremyCarroll> Zakim, ??P11 is DebMcG
Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, ??P11 is DebMcG ←
17:33:01 <Zakim> +DebMcG; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +DebMcG; got it ←
17:33:15 <JeremyCarroll> Zakim, who's on the call?
Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, who's on the call? ←
17:33:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see Conrad, Vipul_Kashyap, JeremyCarroll, MartinD (muted), DebMcG
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Conrad, Vipul_Kashyap, JeremyCarroll, MartinD (muted), DebMcG ←
17:34:06 <MartinD> +1 (might be useful to post a link here)
Martin Dzbor: +1 (might be useful to post a link here) ←
17:34:09 <JeremyCarroll> previous minutes agreed
Jeremy Carroll: previous minutes agreed ←
17:34:13 <Zakim> +??P12
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12 ←
17:34:18 <pfps> zakim, ??p12 is me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, ??p12 is me ←
17:34:18 <Zakim> +pfps; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it ←
17:34:19 <JeremyCarroll> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/UFDTFMinutes7Nov07
Jeremy Carroll: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/UFDTFMinutes7Nov07 ←
17:34:28 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
17:34:28 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
17:34:42 <JeremyCarroll> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/UFDTFMinutes7Nov07
Jeremy Carroll: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/UFDTFMinutes7Nov07 ←
17:34:48 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
17:34:48 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←
17:34:59 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
17:34:59 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
17:35:02 <JeremyCarroll> minutes approved
Jeremy Carroll: minutes approved ←
17:35:16 <JeremyCarroll> regrets Bijan and Jim
Jeremy Carroll: regrets Bijan and Jim ←
17:35:20 <alanr> calling in now
Alan Ruttenberg: calling in now ←
17:35:33 <Zakim> +Alan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Alan ←
17:35:49 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
17:35:49 <Zakim> pfps was already muted, pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was already muted, pfps ←
17:37:04 <pfps> actually no
Peter Patel-Schneider: actually no ←
17:37:13 <alanr> zakim, who is on the call?
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is on the call? ←
17:37:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see Conrad, Vipul_Kashyap, JeremyCarroll, MartinD (muted), DebMcG, pfps (muted), Alan
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Conrad, Vipul_Kashyap, JeremyCarroll, MartinD (muted), DebMcG, pfps (muted), Alan ←
17:37:33 <alanr> some scribing?
Alan Ruttenberg: someone scribing? ←
17:37:38 <alanr> s/some/someone/
17:37:39 <JeremyCarroll> Vippul takes the hot seat
Jeremy Carroll: Vippul takes the hot seat ←
17:37:48 <alanr> will do
Alan Ruttenberg: will do ←
17:38:21 <JeremyCarroll> Vipul: goal is increase acceptance and adoption of standard
Vipul Kashyap: goal is increase acceptance and adoption of standard [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:38:30 <JeremyCarroll> present spec to enahnce proabablity of use
Jeremy Carroll: present spec to enahnce proabablity of use ←
17:38:44 <JeremyCarroll> tap into wider audience
Jeremy Carroll: tap into wider audience ←
17:38:50 <alanr> Evan says: Our standard needs to be useful to both those who build OWL tools
Alan Ruttenberg: Evan says: Our standard needs to be useful to both those who build OWL tools ←
17:38:51 <alanr> and those who author OWL content. Since these are two different audiences
Alan Ruttenberg: and those who author OWL content. Since these are two different audiences ←
17:38:53 <alanr> and the documents aimed at them have different goals, it makes a lot of
Alan Ruttenberg: and the documents aimed at them have different goals, it makes a lot of ←
17:38:54 <alanr> sense to break the work product of this WG into different documents or
Alan Ruttenberg: sense to break the work product of this WG into different documents or ←
17:38:56 <alanr> document sets split along these lines. This is what WebOnt did and
Alan Ruttenberg: document sets split along these lines. This is what WebOnt did and ←
17:38:57 <alanr> what the deliverables in our charter reflect.
Alan Ruttenberg: what the deliverables in our charter reflect. ←
17:39:01 <JeremyCarroll> agree with evan's email
Jeremy Carroll: agree with evan's email ←
17:39:13 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
17:39:24 <JeremyCarroll> content providers will drive use cases and requirements
Jeremy Carroll: content providers will drive use cases and requirements ←
17:39:33 <JeremyCarroll> tool vendors will build tools around content
Jeremy Carroll: tool vendors will build tools around content ←
17:39:55 <JeremyCarroll> one way of writing is to start with UC and functional reqs
Jeremy Carroll: one way of writing is to start with UC and functional reqs ←
17:40:03 <JeremyCarroll> and then move to technologies
Jeremy Carroll: and then move to technologies ←
17:40:15 <JeremyCarroll> when presented to users likely to have higher acceptance
Jeremy Carroll: when presented to users likely to have higher acceptance ←
17:40:28 <alanr> maybe one more audience - people who want to deeply and securely understand *exactly* what the specification says. This is very important and one of the current strengths of the OWL effort
Alan Ruttenberg: maybe one more audience - people who want to deeply and securely understand *exactly* what the specification says. This is very important and one of the current strengths of the OWL effort ←
17:40:32 <JeremyCarroll> Content of specs remains the same
Jeremy Carroll: Content of specs remains the same ←
17:40:36 <ewallace> agree with jeremy that UC is a good place to start
Evan Wallace: agree with jeremy that UC is a good place to start ←
17:40:39 <pfps> document content is not the same as technical content
Peter Patel-Schneider: document content is not the same as technical content ←
17:40:43 <JeremyCarroll> it is to do with presentation
Jeremy Carroll: it is to do with presentation ←
17:40:53 <JeremyCarroll> (Jeremy is reporting Vipul not my own pov)
Jeremy Carroll: (Jeremy is reporting Vipul not my own pov) ←
17:41:29 <alanr> Users: Clinical modelers, bioinformatics people,
Scribe problem: the name 'Users' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Users: Clinical modelers, bioinformatics people, [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←
17:41:29 <JeremyCarroll> "owl 1.1 supports path expression" may be meaningless to medical person
Jeremy Carroll: "owl 1.1 supports path expression" may be meaningless to medical person ←
17:41:49 <JeremyCarroll> but domain specific example using path expressions will
Jeremy Carroll: but domain specific example using path expressions will ←
17:41:53 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace
Zakim IRC Bot: +Evan_Wallace ←
17:42:06 <JeremyCarroll> some specific example that I didn't understand
Jeremy Carroll: some specific example that I didn't understand ←
17:42:47 <JeremyCarroll> ability to locate fractures seems to me to be maybe too possibly misleading
Jeremy Carroll: ability to locate fractures seems to me to be maybe too possibly misleading ←
17:42:56 <JeremyCarroll> jeremy: noted food and wine from OWL 1.0
Jeremy Carroll: noted food and wine from OWL 1.0 [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:42:56 <alanr> better: Can locate fracture, and from positions of fractures, classify "multiple fractures"
Scribe problem: the name 'better' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown better: Can locate fracture, and from positions of fractures, classify "multiple fractures" [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←
17:43:09 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:43:23 <Zakim> +Elisa_Kendall
Zakim IRC Bot: +Elisa_Kendall ←
17:43:37 <JeremyCarroll> Alan: talks about expressivity
Alan Ruttenberg: talks about expressivity [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:43:56 <JeremyCarroll> a distinguishing factor in OWL is what you can infer in OWL
Jeremy Carroll: a distinguishing factor in OWL is what you can infer in OWL ←
17:44:02 <JeremyCarroll> not what you can represent
Jeremy Carroll: not what you can represent ←
17:44:07 <dlm> +queue
Deborah McGuinness: +queue ←
17:44:22 <JeremyCarroll> (feel free to interrupt - but I will fo ryou)
Jeremy Carroll: (feel free to interrupt - but I will fo ryou) ←
17:44:56 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:45:05 <JeremyCarroll> alan: what sort of computations are needed in UCR
Alan Ruttenberg: what sort of computations are needed in UCR [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:45:15 <Conrad> +q Conrad
Conrad Bock: +q Conrad ←
17:45:18 <Zakim> -Alan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Alan ←
17:45:27 <pfps> q+
17:45:34 <JeremyCarroll> in overview 1.0 each construct had one sentence describing it, and one sentence describing computation
Jeremy Carroll: in overview 1.0 each construct had one sentence describing it, and one sentence describing computation ←
17:45:53 <Zakim> +Alan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Alan ←
17:46:04 <alanr> phone ran out of battery
Alan Ruttenberg: phone ran out of battery ←
17:46:06 <JeremyCarroll> deb wants to see style of overview and guide updated, and likes having additional docs for new areas of users
Jeremy Carroll: deb wants to see style of overview and guide updated, and likes having additional docs for new areas of users ←
17:46:44 <JeremyCarroll> vipul OWL 1.1 allows you to say same things 9about fractures) more intuitively than OWL 1.0
Jeremy Carroll: vipul OWL 1.1 allows you to say same things 9about fractures) more intuitively than OWL 1.0 ←
17:47:09 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
17:47:26 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
17:47:26 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←
17:47:28 <JeremyCarroll> ack dlm
Jeremy Carroll: ack dlm ←
17:47:48 <alanr> which audience is the overview aimed at
Alan Ruttenberg: which audience is the overview aimed at ←
17:47:54 <alanr> ?
Alan Ruttenberg: ? ←
17:47:59 <JeremyCarroll> ack Conrad
Jeremy Carroll: ack Conrad ←
17:48:14 <JeremyCarroll> Conrad: concur with Vipul about goals
Conrad Bock: concur with Vipul about goals [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:48:36 <alanr> -1 to leaving it *only* to the market
Alan Ruttenberg: -1 to leaving it *only* to the market ←
17:48:39 <JeremyCarroll> Conrad: while we could have UFD done by market, it is important to community to have approved W3C docs that are UF
Conrad Bock: while we could have UFD done by market, it is important to community to have approved W3C docs that are UF [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:48:49 <JeremyCarroll> to give coherence and momentum
Jeremy Carroll: to give coherence and momentum ←
17:48:59 <JeremyCarroll> Conrad: I found owl-ref most useful UFD
Conrad Bock: I found owl-ref most useful UFD [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:49:03 <alanr> vipul: q+
Vipul Kashyap: q+ [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←
17:49:31 <JeremyCarroll> q?
Jeremy Carroll: q? ←
17:50:20 <Conrad> ?q
Conrad Bock: ?q ←
17:50:20 <JeremyCarroll> peter: on behalf of bijan: if we have too many ufds we will be rushing off in too many directions
Peter Patel-Schneider: on behalf of bijan: if we have too many ufds we will be rushing off in too many directions [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:50:35 <JeremyCarroll> peter: I hear unwarranted praise of owl-ref
Peter Patel-Schneider: I hear unwarranted praise of owl-ref [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:50:47 <alanr> I used the reference document first too, but I'm not representative
Alan Ruttenberg: I used the reference document first too, but I'm not representative ←
17:50:48 <JeremyCarroll> peter: users are not going to look at RDF/XML, not real users
Peter Patel-Schneider: users are not going to look at RDF/XML, not real users [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:51:08 <JeremyCarroll> peter: my colleagues would tar and feather me if I made them read that
Peter Patel-Schneider: my colleagues would tar and feather me if I made them read that [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:51:29 <JeremyCarroll> alan: I find it useful when file editing
Alan Ruttenberg: I find it useful when file editing [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:51:38 <alanr> peter, unfortunately you are wrong. It is even worse. People use literal java APIs that mimic the syntax
Alan Ruttenberg: peter, unfortunately you are wrong. It is even worse. People use literal java APIs that mimic the syntax ←
17:51:49 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
17:51:49 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
17:51:50 <alanr> What would be good to give them something better
Alan Ruttenberg: What would be good to give them something better ←
17:51:53 <JeremyCarroll> vipul: ----
Vipul Kashyap: ---- [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:52:26 <pfps> a user API that mimics the RDF/XML syntax? scary!
Peter Patel-Schneider: a user API that mimics the RDF/XML syntax? scary! ←
17:52:27 <alanr> then I went to syntax and semantics
Alan Ruttenberg: then I went to syntax and semantics ←
17:52:44 <JeremyCarroll> dlm: I saw usage of overview, guide and ref, and then went to more technical docs
Deborah McGuinness: I saw usage of overview, guide and ref, and then went to more technical docs [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:53:00 <JeremyCarroll> dlm: do we have a charter onbligation to update guide ref overview?
Deborah McGuinness: do we have a charter onbligation to update guide ref overview? [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:53:01 <alanr> Best advice for my development was practically, from peter, to stop looking at RDF/XML and only use the functional syntax
Alan Ruttenberg: Best advice for my development was practically, from peter, to stop looking at RDF/XML and only use the functional syntax ←
17:53:02 <JeremyCarroll> jjc: no
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: no [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:53:13 <pfps> it would be *very* rare for any user-facing document to be normative
Peter Patel-Schneider: it would be *very* rare for any user-facing document to be normative ←
17:53:18 <alanr> And it was disappointing that the parser/generators didn't work
Alan Ruttenberg: And it was disappointing that the parser/generators didn't work ←
17:53:23 <alanr> validators didn't work
Alan Ruttenberg: validators didn't work ←
17:53:30 <alanr> tools still, in some ways, don't work
Alan Ruttenberg: tools still, in some ways, don't work ←
17:53:35 <JeremyCarroll> vipul: question about normatiuve vs informative
Vipul Kashyap: question about normatiuve vs informative [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:53:53 <JeremyCarroll> vipul: agree with danger of too many docs
Vipul Kashyap: agree with danger of too many docs [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:54:26 <pfps> there is large utility in having a single tutorial domain across all user-facing document
Peter Patel-Schneider: there is large utility in having a single tutorial domain across all user-facing document ←
17:54:51 <alanr> again, from my experience, pizza didn't engage me, though I hear that it worked for others
Alan Ruttenberg: again, from my experience, pizza didn't engage me, though I hear that it worked for others ←
17:55:31 <vipul> The value of the pizza ontology is not clear to a clinical informatician or a biomedical informatician
Vipul Kashyap: The value of the pizza ontology is not clear to a clinical informatician or a biomedical informatician ←
17:55:39 <alanr> I think a key is to choose a specific target person that you are writing the document towards. Pick that person carefully.
Alan Ruttenberg: I think a key is to choose a specific target person that you are writing the document towards. Pick that person carefully. ←
17:56:25 <JeremyCarroll> owl normative docs do not include summaries etc
Jeremy Carroll: owl normative docs do not include summaries etc ←
17:56:48 <JeremyCarroll> vipul: i see value in UFDs having same distribution channel to normative docs
Vipul Kashyap: i see value in UFDs having same distribution channel to normative docs [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:56:50 <alanr> informative is easier, but because of this, it can be more damaging when wrong, and more likely to be wrong because inadequate scrutiny given by WG, given importance of normtive
Alan Ruttenberg: informative is easier, but because of this, it can be more damaging when wrong, and more likely to be wrong because inadequate scrutiny given by WG, given importance of normtive ←
17:57:23 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
17:57:23 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←
17:57:30 <alanr> http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-features/
Alan Ruttenberg: http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-features/ ←
17:57:35 <JeremyCarroll> pfps: owl 1.1 overview is short
Peter Patel-Schneider: owl 1.1 overview is short [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:57:49 <JeremyCarroll> (peter please put pointer)
Jeremy Carroll: (peter please put pointer) ←
17:58:03 <JeremyCarroll> question who is the target reader? (Alan asks)
Jeremy Carroll: question who is the target reader? (Alan asks) ←
17:58:30 <alanr> Guide: For people who know nothing about OWL
Scribe problem: the name 'Overview' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Overview: For people who know nothing about OWL [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←
17:58:38 <JeremyCarroll> Conrad: an overview is aimed at people who know nothing about the lanaguge, and should be index into other docs.
Conrad Bock: an overview is aimed at people who know nothing about the lanaguge, and should be index into other docs. [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:58:40 <alanr> s/Guide/Overview
17:58:55 <alanr> 1.1 http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Overview
Alan Ruttenberg: 1.1 http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Overview ←
17:58:55 <pfps> OWL 1.1 overview is at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Overview
Peter Patel-Schneider: OWL 1.1 overview is at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Overview ←
17:59:04 <JeremyCarroll> vipul: are OWL 1.1 overview readers knowledgeable about OWL 1.0
Vipul Kashyap: are OWL 1.1 overview readers knowledgeable about OWL 1.0 [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:59:15 <JeremyCarroll> answer: maybe, maybe not
Scribe problem: the name 'answer' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown answer: maybe, maybe not [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:59:56 <JeremyCarroll> two readers identified - those who know OWL 1.0 and those who don't
Jeremy Carroll: two readers identified - those who know OWL 1.0 and those who don't ←
18:00:01 <vipul> +1
Vipul Kashyap: +1 ←
18:00:06 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:00:06 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
18:00:15 <JeremyCarroll> Alan: suggest writing a bit about target audience, agreemenet form peter
Alan Ruttenberg: suggest writing a bit about target audience, agreemenet form peter [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
18:00:21 <JeremyCarroll> q+
Jeremy Carroll: q+ ←
18:00:41 <JeremyCarroll> Alan: OWL 1.1 overview seems to be for someone who knows about OWL 1.0
Alan Ruttenberg: OWL 1.1 overview seems to be for someone who knows about OWL 1.0 [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
18:00:49 <MartinD> imho, it would be useful to separate the two = "owl 1.0 diff" vs. "(motivation for using) owl (1.1)"
Martin Dzbor: imho, it would be useful to separate the two = "owl 1.0 diff" vs. "(motivation for using) owl (1.1)" ←
18:00:51 <JeremyCarroll> (peter do you agree with Alan here?)
Jeremy Carroll: (peter do you agree with Alan here?) ←
18:01:11 <pfps> nope
Peter Patel-Schneider: nope ←
18:01:30 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
18:01:30 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←
18:01:45 <alanr> In OWL 1.1 a name (such as Person) can be used as any or all of an individual, a class, and a property. The computational problems that would arise if this were treated as in RDF are avoided by ensuring that no aspect of the use of the name as an individual has any effect on the meaning of the name as a class. Such a treatment of metamodeling is often called punning.
Alan Ruttenberg: In OWL 1.1 a name (such as Person) can be used as any or all of an individual, a class, and a property. The computational problems that would arise if this were treated as in RDF are avoided by ensuring that no aspect of the use of the name as an individual has any effect on the meaning of the name as a class. Such a treatment of metamodeling is often called punning. ←
18:01:46 <JeremyCarroll> pfps: I disagree - particularly on metamodelling
Peter Patel-Schneider: I disagree - particularly on metamodelling [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
18:01:56 <JeremyCarroll> alan: who is quoted text aimed at?
Alan Ruttenberg: who is quoted text aimed at? [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
18:02:21 <JeremyCarroll> pfps: i think that text is targetted at people who know something, but maybe not much, about OWL 1.0
Peter Patel-Schneider: i think that text is targetted at people who know something, but maybe not much, about OWL 1.0 [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
18:02:37 <JeremyCarroll> pfps: this is introducing something that was a problem, but is now solved
Peter Patel-Schneider: this is introducing something that was a problem, but is now solved [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
18:02:53 <JeremyCarroll> q?
Jeremy Carroll: q? ←
18:03:06 <JeremyCarroll> [alan?] no one gets punning
Jeremy Carroll: [alan?] no one gets punning ←
18:03:20 <JeremyCarroll> pfps: a tutorial document would be long, but that sentence helps
Peter Patel-Schneider: a tutorial document would be long, but that sentence helps [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
18:04:30 <JeremyCarroll> alan: and where do they go next to expand on this para ...
Alan Ruttenberg: and where do they go next to expand on this para ... [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
18:04:32 <vipul> I like the notion of "field testing" the overview and user facing documents
Vipul Kashyap: I like the notion of "field testing" the overview and user facing documents ←
18:04:57 <JeremyCarroll> field testing is called first public working draft!! (jjc)
Jeremy Carroll: field testing is called first public working draft!! (jjc) ←
18:04:59 <vipul> User Facing Documents != Tutorials
Vipul Kashyap: User Facing Documents != Tutorials ←
18:05:09 <vipul> oh ok!
Vipul Kashyap: oh ok! ←
18:05:27 <dlm> +queue
Deborah McGuinness: +queue ←
18:05:34 <alanr> peter would be surprised if the intermediate level of documentation would ever exist
Alan Ruttenberg: peter would be surprised if the intermediate level of documentation would ever exist ←
18:05:56 <alanr> responding to Alan saying very little is learned from current metamodel thing and that there is no where to go next
Alan Ruttenberg: responding to Alan saying very little is learned from current metamodel thing and that there is no where to go next ←
18:06:08 <alanr> peter claims it is tutorial and this is too much work
Alan Ruttenberg: peter claims it is tutorial and this is too much work ←
18:06:14 <pfps> ack pfps
Peter Patel-Schneider: ack pfps ←
18:06:18 <alanr> Alan says there is something in between
Alan Ruttenberg: Alan says there is something in between ←
18:06:23 <alanr> (hopefully)
Alan Ruttenberg: (hopefully) ←
18:06:43 <JeremyCarroll> ack
Jeremy Carroll: ack ←
18:06:47 <alanr> But mostly that current thing doesn't address what peter thinks it does
Alan Ruttenberg: But mostly that current thing doesn't address what peter thinks it does ←
18:06:50 <JeremyCarroll> ack
Jeremy Carroll: ack ←
18:06:52 <JeremyCarroll> q?
Jeremy Carroll: q? ←
18:06:57 <JeremyCarroll> ack JeremyCarroll
Jeremy Carroll: ack JeremyCarroll ←
18:06:58 <JeremyCarroll> ack dlm
Jeremy Carroll: ack dlm ←
18:07:28 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:07:28 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
18:07:28 <alanr> from overview: rdfs:subPropertyOf: Property hierarchies may be created by making one or more statements that a property is a subproperty of one or more other properties. For example, hasSibling may be stated to be a subproperty of hasRelative. From this a reasoner can deduce that if an individual is related to another by the hasSibling property, then it is also related to the other by the...
Alan Ruttenberg: from overview: rdfs:subPropertyOf: Property hierarchies may be created by making one or more statements that a property is a subproperty of one or more other properties. For example, hasSibling may be stated to be a subproperty of hasRelative. From this a reasoner can deduce that if an individual is related to another by the hasSibling property, then it is also related to the other by the... ←
18:07:29 <JeremyCarroll> dlm: goal was overview was entry point, and hten handed fof to guide
Deborah McGuinness: goal was overview was entry point, and hten handed fof to guide [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
18:07:30 <alanr> ...hasRelative property.
Alan Ruttenberg: ...hasRelative property. ←
18:07:32 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:07:44 <JeremyCarroll> dlm I got a lot of feedback that overview 1.0 was hopeful
Jeremy Carroll: dlm I got a lot of feedback that overview 1.0 was hopeful ←
18:08:19 <JeremyCarroll> alanr: OWL 1.0 overview doesn't seem to be for soemone with no KR experience
Alan Ruttenberg: OWL 1.0 overview doesn't seem to be for soemone with no KR experience [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
18:08:23 <ewallace> from which Overview
Evan Wallace: from which Overview ←
18:08:26 <JeremyCarroll> 1.0
Jeremy Carroll: 1.0 ←
18:08:45 <vipul> q+
Vipul Kashyap: q+ ←
18:08:51 <JeremyCarroll> it is not enogh to say it is an ontology language
Jeremy Carroll: it is not enogh to say it is an ontology language ←
18:08:58 <JeremyCarroll> (alan speaking)
Jeremy Carroll: (alan speaking) ←
18:09:27 <ewallace> q+
Evan Wallace: q+ ←
18:09:35 <JeremyCarroll> so, for some audiences, overview needs to say something about KR,
Jeremy Carroll: so, for some audiences, overview needs to say something about KR, ←
18:09:50 <JeremyCarroll> alan ask dlm who is the audience for OWL 1.0 overview
Jeremy Carroll: alan ask dlm who is the audience for OWL 1.0 overview ←
18:10:16 <JeremyCarroll> dlm: for new overview, a person would be a manegr who has used OWL 1.0, and is considering using OWL 1.1 in future project
Deborah McGuinness: for new overview, a person would be a manegr who has used OWL 1.0, and is considering using OWL 1.1 in future project [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
18:10:35 <JeremyCarroll> also for non-pwer users of OWL 1.0 who want some idea of OWL 1.1
Jeremy Carroll: also for non-pwer users of OWL 1.0 who want some idea of OWL 1.1 ←
18:10:48 <JeremyCarroll> also someone who knows little about OWL but has been referred to OWL
Jeremy Carroll: also someone who knows little about OWL but has been referred to OWL ←
18:11:27 <JeremyCarroll> alan: for technically solid people in bio-informatics etc, would find this doc difficult
Alan Ruttenberg: for technically solid people in bio-informatics etc, would find this doc difficult [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
18:11:37 <JeremyCarroll> (this doc = OWL 1.0 overview??)
Jeremy Carroll: (this doc = OWL 1.0 overview??) ←
18:11:53 <JeremyCarroll> thinking with OWL is foreign for these people
Jeremy Carroll: thinking with OWL is foreign for these people ←
18:12:29 <JeremyCarroll> describes work with someone doing bioinformatics datat integration, but don't understand how to take advanteg
Jeremy Carroll: describes work with someone doing bioinformatics datat integration, but don't understand how to take advanteg ←
18:12:43 <JeremyCarroll> they have had poor experiences in past
Jeremy Carroll: they have had poor experiences in past ←
18:12:51 <JeremyCarroll> btu hope to have a better experience
Jeremy Carroll: btu hope to have a better experience ←
18:12:57 <pfps> but isn't it the case that these people are best served by either a domain-specific introduction or some personal attention?
Peter Patel-Schneider: but isn't it the case that these people are best served by either a domain-specific introduction or some personal attention? ←
18:13:07 <JeremyCarroll> (I agree with peter)
Jeremy Carroll: (I agree with peter) ←
18:13:23 <JeremyCarroll> vipul agrees with alan
Jeremy Carroll: vipul agrees with alan ←
18:13:26 <Conrad> q?
Conrad Bock: q? ←
18:13:31 <JeremyCarroll> ack vipul
Jeremy Carroll: ack vipul ←
18:14:01 <JeremyCarroll> vipul would it make sense to show data integration example made easier by this example (sibling)
Jeremy Carroll: vipul would it make sense to show data integration example made easier by this example (sibling) ←
18:14:02 <Conrad> q+
Conrad Bock: q+ ←
18:14:21 <alanr> peter: There aren't enough of us to give personal attention. I imagine that we could have something that introduces but in a couple of domains that people can understand or are common to computational people/managers
Peter Patel-Schneider: There aren't enough of us to give personal attention. I imagine that we could have something that introduces but in a couple of domains that people can understand or are common to computational people/managers [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←
18:14:31 <alanr> domain taken from something common in their education
Alan Ruttenberg: domain taken from something common in their education ←
18:14:46 <JeremyCarroll> alan: I think we need to have a market of OWL educators
Alan Ruttenberg: I think we need to have a market of OWL educators [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
18:15:00 <JeremyCarroll> sorry misquote that was jjc=>alan
Jeremy Carroll: sorry misquote that was jjc=>alan ←
18:15:20 <alanr> I agree. But what can we do now so that people know they need those educators?
Alan Ruttenberg: I agree. But what can we do now so that people know they need those educators? ←
18:15:33 <vipul> A domain specific introduction combined with use cases ...is likely to be of value
Vipul Kashyap: A domain specific introduction combined with use cases ...is likely to be of value ←
18:15:39 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:15:58 <JeremyCarroll> ack ewallace
Jeremy Carroll: ack ewallace ←
18:16:11 <JeremyCarroll> evan: responding to alan - what is OWL for?
Evan Wallace: responding to alan - what is OWL for? [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
18:16:21 <alanr> http://www.w3.org/TR/webont-req/
Alan Ruttenberg: http://www.w3.org/TR/webont-req/ ←
18:16:23 <Conrad> -q
Conrad Bock: -q ←
18:16:26 <JeremyCarroll> in UCR 1.0 we described what an Ontology is for
Jeremy Carroll: in UCR 1.0 we described what an Ontology is for ←
18:16:46 <alanr> needs more pictures :)
Alan Ruttenberg: needs more pictures :) ←
18:16:48 <JeremyCarroll> evan: we should reorganise and repurpose old docs
Evan Wallace: we could reorganise and repurpose old docs [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
18:17:10 <alanr> agree that UC&R is in the direction to address my point
Alan Ruttenberg: agree that UC&R is in the direction to address my point ←
18:17:23 <alanr> +1 to evan
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 to evan ←
18:18:00 <JeremyCarroll> jjc: how to move forward
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: how to move forward [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
18:18:02 <ewallace> s/should/could/
18:18:02 <JeremyCarroll> ?
Jeremy Carroll: ? ←
18:18:09 <vipul> +1 to alan
Vipul Kashyap: +1 to alan ←
18:18:17 <JeremyCarroll> alan: suggest writing up a few target readers?
Alan Ruttenberg: suggest writing up a few target readers? [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
18:18:22 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:18:22 <Zakim> pfps was already muted, pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was already muted, pfps ←
18:19:13 <JeremyCarroll> ACTION alan To start target users/readers page
Jeremy Carroll: ACTION alan To start target users/readers page ←
18:19:26 <JeremyCarroll> ACTION: alan To start target users/readers page
ACTION: alan To start target users/readers page ←
18:19:26 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-20 - Start target users/readers page [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2007-11-22].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-20 - Start target users/readers page [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2007-11-22]. ←
18:19:44 <alanr> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Who_Reads_Our_Documents
Alan Ruttenberg: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Who_Reads_Our_Documents ←
18:19:45 <JeremyCarroll> ACTION: vipul To add target users/readers page
ACTION: vipul To add target users/readers page ←
18:19:45 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-21 - Add target users/readers page [on Vipul Kashyap - due 2007-11-22].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-21 - Add target users/readers page [on Vipul Kashyap - due 2007-11-22]. ←
18:19:54 <JeremyCarroll> ACTION: deborah To add target users/readers page
ACTION: deborah To add target users/readers page ←
18:19:54 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-22 - Add target users/readers page [on Deborah McGuinness - due 2007-11-22].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-22 - Add target users/readers page [on Deborah McGuinness - due 2007-11-22]. ←
18:20:07 <JeremyCarroll> ^page^to page^
Jeremy Carroll: ^page^to page^ ←
18:20:25 <alanr> Descriptions of examples of readers who would be reading our user facing documents.
Alan Ruttenberg: Descriptions of examples of readers who would be reading our user facing documents. ←
18:21:42 <JeremyCarroll> external contacts item
Jeremy Carroll: external contacts item ←
18:22:09 <JeremyCarroll> vipul: I like Michaels matrix mapping genomic concepts to OWL concepts
Vipul Kashyap: I like Michaels matrix mapping genomic concepts to OWL concepts [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
18:22:26 <JeremyCarroll> vipul: Christine has done lots of work in OWLED
Vipul Kashyap: Christine has done lots of work in OWLED [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
18:22:46 <JeremyCarroll> but no W3C members
Jeremy Carroll: but no W3C members ←
18:23:14 <JeremyCarroll> attribution issues if we reuse their work (with permission)
Jeremy Carroll: attribution issues if we reuse their work (with permission) ←
18:23:27 <JeremyCarroll> vipul is prepared to liase with them
Jeremy Carroll: vipul is prepared to liase with them ←
18:24:06 <pfps> I think that Bijan generated good information on requirements - he went through all the submissions to OWLED2007 and looked for statement of the form "I need this for that" and similar stuff
Peter Patel-Schneider: I think that Bijan generated good information on requirements - he went through all the submissions to OWLED2007 and looked for statement of the form "I need this for that" and similar stuff ←
18:24:57 <JeremyCarroll> yes - i have looked at bijan's matrix
Jeremy Carroll: yes - i have looked at bijan's matrix ←
18:25:04 <ewallace> I'd like to mine Bijan's work that Peter mentioned
Evan Wallace: I'd like to mine Bijan's work that Peter mentioned ←
18:25:34 <ewallace> but it needs expansion of many of the abbreviations used
Evan Wallace: but it needs expansion of many of the abbreviations used ←
18:26:14 <vipul> Bijan's matrix (at least the version of what I saw) is a list of features => use cases
Vipul Kashyap: Bijan's matrix (at least the version of what I saw) is a list of features => use cases ←
18:26:25 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
18:26:25 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←
18:26:26 <vipul> What would be better would be use cases => features
Vipul Kashyap: What would be better would be use cases => features ←
18:27:00 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
18:27:00 <Zakim> pfps was not muted, pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was not muted, pfps ←
18:28:13 <JeremyCarroll> ACTION: jeremy clarify attribution issues for non-WG authors
ACTION: jeremy clarify attribution issues for non-WG authors ←
18:28:13 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-23 - Clarify attribution issues for non-WG authors [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2007-11-22].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-23 - Clarify attribution issues for non-WG authors [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2007-11-22]. ←
18:30:14 <alanr> I've written more detail on http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Who_Reads_Our_Documents
Alan Ruttenberg: I've written more detail on http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Who_Reads_Our_Documents ←
18:30:17 <alanr> feedback requested
Alan Ruttenberg: feedback requested ←
18:30:21 <JeremyCarroll> ACTION: vipul to ask christine and michael about types of users/readers
ACTION: vipul to ask christine and michael about types of users/readers ←
18:30:21 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-24 - Ask christine and michael about types of users/readers [on Vipul Kashyap - due 2007-11-22].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-24 - Ask christine and michael about types of users/readers [on Vipul Kashyap - due 2007-11-22]. ←
18:31:17 <pfps> I think that Alan and Ian are the only ones who can do the invite!
Peter Patel-Schneider: I think that Alan and Ian are the only ones who can do the invite! ←
18:31:48 <JeremyCarroll> ACTION: vipul invite Christine and Michael to present to TF on work they already have done on User-Facing docs
ACTION: vipul invite Christine and Michael to present to TF on work they already have done on User-Facing docs ←
18:31:48 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-25 - Invite Christine and Michael to present to TF on work they already have done on User-Facing docs [on Vipul Kashyap - due 2007-11-22].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-25 - Invite Christine and Michael to present to TF on work they already have done on User-Facing docs [on Vipul Kashyap - due 2007-11-22]. ←
18:32:54 <JeremyCarroll> dlm: meeting time?
Deborah McGuinness: meeting time? [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
18:33:07 <alanr> 1/2 hour overlap with other standing meeting of mine
Alan Ruttenberg: 1/2 hour overlap with other standing meeting of mine ←
18:33:17 <alanr> goal time when Jim can make it
Alan Ruttenberg: goal time when Jim can make it ←
18:33:29 <ewallace> Jeremy:we should have a standing meeting time
Jeremy Carroll: we should have a standing meeting time [ Scribe Assist by Evan Wallace ] ←
18:33:51 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
18:33:51 <Zakim> pfps was not muted, pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was not muted, pfps ←
18:34:20 <Zakim> -Conrad
Zakim IRC Bot: -Conrad ←
18:34:40 <ewallace> -1 on another wednesday telecon
Evan Wallace: -1 on another wednesday telecon ←
18:34:53 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:34:53 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
18:36:15 <JeremyCarroll> elisa and evan have ODM time
Jeremy Carroll: elisa and evan have ODM time ←
18:36:27 <JeremyCarroll> conrad and evan have competing meeting at Wed
Jeremy Carroll: conrad and evan have competing meeting at Wed ←
18:36:31 <alanr> got to go. Will coordinate time via email
Alan Ruttenberg: got to go. Will coordinate time via email ←
18:36:39 <Zakim> -Alan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Alan ←
18:36:45 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
18:36:45 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←
18:38:17 <JeremyCarroll> 8 am PST not thurs not wed not tues, maybe mon or fri
Jeremy Carroll: 8 am PST not thurs not wed not tues, maybe mon or fri ←
18:38:22 <JeremyCarroll> jjc prefer monday?
Jeremy Carroll: jjc prefer monday? ←
18:38:30 <pfps> friday evening is flat out
Peter Patel-Schneider: friday evening is flat out ←
18:38:47 <JeremyCarroll> ACTION: jeremy to send e-mail suggesting 8am pacific mondays
ACTION: jeremy to send e-mail suggesting 8am pacific mondays ←
18:38:47 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-26 - Send e-mail suggesting 8am pacific mondays [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2007-11-22].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-26 - Send e-mail suggesting 8am pacific mondays [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2007-11-22]. ←
18:38:48 <alanr> don't forget to save IRC log...
Alan Ruttenberg: don't forget to save IRC log... ←
18:39:07 <alanr> 8am pacific mondays occupied by HCLS call
Alan Ruttenberg: 8am pacific mondays occupied by HCLS call ←
18:39:47 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:39:47 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
18:39:59 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
18:39:59 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←
18:40:06 <alanr> can do 7am, 9am
Alan Ruttenberg: can do 7am, 9am ←
18:41:21 <pfps> i'm not going to be able to make the 19th - vacation
Peter Patel-Schneider: i'm not going to be able to make the 19th - vacation ←
18:41:32 <JeremyCarroll> next meeting 26th
Jeremy Carroll: next meeting 26th ←
18:41:40 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace
Zakim IRC Bot: -Evan_Wallace ←
18:41:42 <Zakim> -DebMcG
Scribe problem: the name 'DebMcG' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Zakim IRC Bot: -DebMcG ←
18:41:43 <Zakim> -Elisa_Kendall
Zakim IRC Bot: -Elisa_Kendall ←
18:41:45 <Zakim> -pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps ←
18:41:47 <Zakim> -MartinD
Zakim IRC Bot: -MartinD ←
18:41:50 <Zakim> -JeremyCarroll
Zakim IRC Bot: -JeremyCarroll ←
18:41:55 <ewallace> How do we save the IRC log?
Evan Wallace: How do we save the IRC log? ←
18:42:17 <JeremyCarroll> RRSAgent, make logs world readable
Jeremy Carroll: RRSAgent, make logs world readable ←
18:42:17 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make logs world readable', JeremyCarroll. Try /msg RRSAgent help
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I'm logging. I don't understand 'make logs world readable', JeremyCarroll. Try /msg RRSAgent help ←
18:42:25 <JeremyCarroll> RRSAgent, help
Jeremy Carroll: RRSAgent, help ←
18:43:08 <JeremyCarroll> RRSAgent, adminhelp
Jeremy Carroll: RRSAgent, adminhelp ←
18:43:54 <JeremyCarroll> RRSAgent, list actions
Jeremy Carroll: RRSAgent, list actions ←
18:43:54 <RRSAgent> I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-owl-actions.rdf :
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-owl-actions.rdf : ←
18:43:54 <RRSAgent> ACTION: alan To start target users/readers page [1]
ACTION: alan To start target users/readers page [1] ←
18:43:54 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-owl-irc#T18-19-26
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-owl-irc#T18-19-26 ←
18:43:54 <RRSAgent> ACTION: vipul To add target users/readers page [2]
ACTION: vipul To add target users/readers page [2] ←
18:43:54 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-owl-irc#T18-19-45
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-owl-irc#T18-19-45 ←
18:43:54 <RRSAgent> ACTION: deborah To add target users/readers page [3]
ACTION: deborah To add target users/readers page [3] ←
18:43:54 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-owl-irc#T18-19-54
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-owl-irc#T18-19-54 ←
18:43:54 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jeremy clarify attribution issues for non-WG authors [4]
ACTION: jeremy clarify attribution issues for non-WG authors [4] ←
18:43:54 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-owl-irc#T18-28-13
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-owl-irc#T18-28-13 ←
18:43:54 <RRSAgent> ACTION: vipul to ask christine and michael about types of users/readers [5]
ACTION: vipul to ask christine and michael about types of users/readers [5] ←
18:43:54 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-owl-irc#T18-30-21
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-owl-irc#T18-30-21 ←
18:43:54 <RRSAgent> ACTION: vipul invite Christine and Michael to present to TF on work they already have done on User-Facing docs [6]
ACTION: vipul invite Christine and Michael to present to TF on work they already have done on User-Facing docs [6] ←
18:43:54 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-owl-irc#T18-31-48
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-owl-irc#T18-31-48 ←
18:43:54 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jeremy to send e-mail suggesting 8am pacific mondays [7]
ACTION: jeremy to send e-mail suggesting 8am pacific mondays [7] ←
18:43:54 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-owl-irc#T18-38-47
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-owl-irc#T18-38-47 ←
18:44:41 <JeremyCarroll> RRSAgent, set log world-visible
Jeremy Carroll: RRSAgent, set log world-visible ←
18:46:50 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, Vipul_Kashyap, in SW_OWL()12:30PM
Zakim IRC Bot: disconnecting the lone participant, Vipul_Kashyap, in SW_OWL()12:30PM ←
18:46:52 <Zakim> SW_OWL()12:30PM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()12:30PM has ended ←
18:46:53 <Zakim> Attendees were Conrad, Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD, JeremyCarroll, DebMcG, pfps, Alan, Evan_Wallace, Elisa_Kendall
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Conrad, Vipul_Kashyap, MartinD, JeremyCarroll, DebMcG, pfps, Alan, Evan_Wallace, Elisa_Kendall ←
Formatted by CommonScribe