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Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 26 January 2015

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2015.01.26
Present
Robert Sanderson, Andrei Sambra, Arnaud Le Hors, Steve Speicher, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Ted Thibodeau, Sandro Hawke, Ashok Malhotra, Alexandre Bertails
Chair
Arnaud Le Hors
Scribe
Eric Prud'hommeaux
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. Approve the minutes of the 19 January teleconf: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2015-01-19 link
  2. accept proposed change to LDP PR 9. Security Considerations in http://www.w3.org/mid/20150126145903.GG23180@w3.org link
  3. explicitly state that "this is a resource to which we will [later] add a container" to resolve the second comment in http://www.w3.org/mid/20150126145903.GG23180@w3.org link
  4. set expectation duration for CR is 45 days after publication link
Topics
14:59:23 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/26-ldp-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/26-ldp-irc

14:59:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public

14:59:27 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be LDP

14:59:27 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started

14:59:28 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
14:59:28 <trackbot> Date: 26 January 2015
14:59:44 <Zakim> +deiu

Zakim IRC Bot: +deiu

15:00:06 <azaroth> zakim, who is here?

Robert Sanderson: zakim, who is here?

15:00:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see azaroth, deiu

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see azaroth, deiu

15:00:08 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, azaroth, deiu, TallTed, SteveS, jmvanel, Arnaud, tommorris_, sandro, Yves, ericP, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, azaroth, deiu, TallTed, SteveS, jmvanel, Arnaud, tommorris_, sandro, Yves, ericP, trackbot

15:00:34 <Zakim> +Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud

15:01:34 <Zakim> +Steve_Speicher

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steve_Speicher

15:01:44 <SteveS> zakim, Steve_Speicher is me

Steve Speicher: zakim, Steve_Speicher is me

15:01:44 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveS; got it

15:01:48 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

15:01:53 <Zakim> +ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP

15:02:02 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

15:02:02 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it

15:02:03 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:02:03 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted

15:02:57 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

15:03:44 <ericP> scribenick: ericP

(Scribe set to Eric Prud'hommeaux)

<ericP> chair: Arnaud
<ericP> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2015.01.26
<ericP> topic: Admin

1. Admin

15:04:07 <Arnaud> Proposal: Approve the minutes of the 19 January teleconf: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2015-01-19

PROPOSED: Approve the minutes of the 19 January teleconf: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2015-01-19

15:04:40 <Arnaud> Resolved: Approve the minutes of the 19 January teleconf: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2015-01-19

RESOLVED: Approve the minutes of the 19 January teleconf: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2015-01-19

<ericP> topic: LDP Spec status

2. LDP Spec status

<ericP> Arnaud: we received enough support to move the spec to REC but have a couple of comments we need to respond to

Arnaud Le Hors: we received enough support to move the spec to REC but have a couple of comments we need to respond to

15:08:20 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/mid/20150126145903.GG23180@w3.org LDP PR comments from AC reps

-> http://www.w3.org/mid/20150126145903.GG23180@w3.org LDP PR comments from AC reps

15:08:40 <Arnaud> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2015Jan/0053.html

Arnaud Le Hors: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2015Jan/0053.html

15:10:10 <azaroth> +1 to proposed revision

Robert Sanderson: +1 to proposed revision

15:10:30 <TallTed> +1 for proposed revision to Security Considerations

Ted Thibodeau: +1 for proposed revision to Security Considerations

15:10:52 <ericP> +1

+1

15:10:52 <SteveS> +1

Steve Speicher: +1

15:11:06 <deiu> +1

Andrei Sambra: +1

15:11:34 <ericP> RESOLVED: accept proposed change to LDP PR 9. Security Considerations in http://www.w3.org/mid/20150126145903.GG23180@w3.org

RESOLVED: accept proposed change to LDP PR 9. Security Considerations in http://www.w3.org/mid/20150126145903.GG23180@w3.org

15:12:04 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ashok_Malhotra

15:12:17 <ericP> SteveS: I believe they are misunderstanding.

Steve Speicher: I believe they are misunderstanding.

15:12:31 <azaroth> q+

Robert Sanderson: q+

15:12:38 <ericP> ... The types look right. It is an LDP Source, not a direct container.

... The types look right. It is an LDP Source, not a direct container.

15:12:50 <TallTed> ex 4 -- https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/ldp.html#ldpc-ex-membership-partial

Ted Thibodeau: ex 4 -- https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/ldp.html#ldpc-ex-membership-partial

15:13:43 <ericP> ... We don't introduce the direct container associated with those resources until example 8.

... We don't introduce the direct container associated with those resources until example 8.

15:14:02 <Arnaud> ack azaroth

Arnaud Le Hors: ack azaroth

15:14:03 <ericP> ... Perhaps just reply trying to explain it

... Perhaps just reply trying to explain it

15:14:28 <TallTed> +1 azaroth

Ted Thibodeau: +1 azaroth

15:14:31 <ericP> azaroth: they may have just missed the last sentence of the previous paragraph in example 3.

Robert Sanderson: they may have just missed the last sentence of the previous paragraph in example 3.

15:14:54 <azaroth> ack azaroth

Robert Sanderson: ack azaroth

15:15:12 <ericP> ... "Let's start with a LDP Source to which we will add a container in later examples"...

... "Let's start with a LDP Source to which we will add a container in later examples"...

15:15:47 <ericP> Ashok: maybe it would be better if we removed the RDF Source link

Arnaud Le Hors: maybe it would be better if we removed the RDF Source link

15:15:53 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

15:15:53 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted

15:16:11 <ericP> s/Ashok: maybe it/Arnaud: maybe it/
15:16:42 <ericP> TallTed: propose to move the "Let's start with" sentence into its own paragraph

Ted Thibodeau: propose to move the "Let's start with" sentence into its own paragraph

15:21:46 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:21:46 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted

15:21:52 <deiu> +1

Andrei Sambra: +1

15:23:08 <ericP> PROPOSED: explicitly state that "this is a resource to which we will [later] add a container" to resolve the second comment in http://www.w3.org/mid/20150126145903.GG23180@w3.org

PROPOSED: explicitly state that "this is a resource to which we will [later] add a container" to resolve the second comment in http://www.w3.org/mid/20150126145903.GG23180@w3.org

15:23:18 <deiu> +1

Andrei Sambra: +1

15:23:21 <SteveS> +1

Steve Speicher: +1

15:23:29 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

15:23:40 <azaroth> +1

Robert Sanderson: +1

15:23:57 <ericP> RESOLVED: explicitly state that "this is a resource to which we will [later] add a container" to resolve the second comment in http://www.w3.org/mid/20150126145903.GG23180@w3.org

RESOLVED: explicitly state that "this is a resource to which we will [later] add a container" to resolve the second comment in http://www.w3.org/mid/20150126145903.GG23180@w3.org

15:24:23 <ericP> -> http://services.w3.org/xslt?xmlfile=http://www.w3.org/2005/08/01-transitions.html&xslfile=http://www.w3.org/2005/08/transitions.xsl&docstatus=rec-tr#dir-mtg PR->REC reqs

-> http://services.w3.org/xslt?xmlfile=http://www.w3.org/2005/08/01-transitions.html&xslfile=http://www.w3.org/2005/08/transitions.xsl&docstatus=rec-tr#dir-mtg PR->REC reqs

15:26:11 <ericP> SteveS: the link rel='...' attr needs fixing (can't be single quotes)

Steve Speicher: the link rel='...' attr needs fixing (can't be single quotes)

15:27:04 <ericP> ericP: just provide some diffs for the PR->REC transition

Eric Prud'hommeaux: just provide some diffs for the PR->REC transition

15:27:17 <ericP> topic: Paging

3. Paging

15:27:54 <ericP> SteveS: we have the start of a paging test suite.

Steve Speicher: we have the start of a paging test suite.

15:28:12 <ericP> ... we tool the LDP tests and created some junit test suite shell

... we tool the LDP tests and created some junit test suite shell

15:28:24 <ericP> ... currently reports that every has not been implemented

... currently reports that every has not been implemented

15:28:36 <ericP> ... just need contributors to provide those implementation

... just need contributors to provide those implementation

15:29:11 <ericP> Arnaud: bblfish said that he expected to implement paging. i don't know if that includes tests.

Arnaud Le Hors: bblfish said that he expected to implement paging. i don't know if that includes tests.

15:29:24 <ericP> ... otherwise the spec is kinda doomed.

... otherwise the spec is kinda doomed.

15:29:42 <ericP> SteveS: there's a group at IBM that's implementing and reporting errors.

Steve Speicher: there's a group at IBM that's implementing and reporting errors.

15:29:54 <ericP> Arnaud: anyone else planning to implement?

Arnaud Le Hors: anyone else planning to implement?

15:30:05 <ericP> topic: LDP Patch Format

4. LDP Patch Format

15:30:20 <ericP> Arnaud: i sent a transition req to CR

Arnaud Le Hors: i sent a transition req to CR

15:30:32 <ericP> ... plh came back with a bunch of questions.

... plh came back with a bunch of questions.

15:31:05 <ericP> ... for the LDP spec, we went through LC (asking the world for comments) and then CR (asking for implementation comments)

... for the LDP spec, we went through LC (asking the world for comments) and then CR (asking for implementation comments)

15:31:17 <ericP> ... we no longer have LC

... we no longer have LC

15:31:31 <ericP> ... so I thought that LC was combined with CR (single disposition of comments)

... so I thought that LC was combined with CR (single disposition of comments)

15:31:51 <ericP> ... when I sent the transition req, there was a question about wide review.

... when I sent the transition req, there was a question about wide review.

15:31:54 <Zakim> +Alexandre

Zakim IRC Bot: +Alexandre

15:32:23 <ericP> ... so we haven't been to LC/CR so we haven't got a story for wide review

... so we haven't been to LC/CR so we haven't got a story for wide review

15:32:42 <ericP> ... plh asked if we've got evidence of wide review.

... plh asked if we've got evidence of wide review.

15:33:32 <ericP> ... apparently, even there's no formal stage called LC, we need something a lot like a LC

... apparently, even there's no formal stage called LC, we need something a lot like a LC

15:33:57 <ericP> ... so we published at FPWD and then lots of changes.

... so we published at FPWD and then lots of changes.

15:35:47 <ericP> ... (it feels like we've lost a practical way of signalling readiness for review)

... (it feels like we've lost a practical way of signalling readiness for review)

15:36:31 <ericP> ... the process doc does not dictate how you establish wide review.

... the process doc does not dictate how you establish wide review.

15:36:41 <ericP> sandro: what outreach could we do that we haven't done?

Sandro Hawke: what outreach could we do that we haven't done?

15:37:09 <ericP> ... if we'd done an LC, maybe we'd have emails chairs

... if we'd done an LC, maybe we'd have emails chairs

15:37:37 <ericP> ... we did mail semantic-web@w3.org and got some pushback from dbooth

... we did mail semantic-web@w3.org and got some pushback from dbooth

15:37:47 <ericP> ... maybe that's our evidence

... maybe that's our evidence

15:38:00 <ericP> Arnaud: plh is only asking for evidence. we can see if that's enough.

Arnaud Le Hors: plh is only asking for evidence. we can see if that's enough.

15:38:43 <ericP> ... so i have to answer these questions before we schedule a transtion.

... so i have to answer these questions before we schedule a transtion.

15:39:13 <ericP> ... q:s "does the WG intend to take this to REC?"

... q:s "does the WG intend to take this to REC?"

15:39:25 <deiu> q+

Andrei Sambra: q+

15:39:31 <Arnaud> ack deiu

Arnaud Le Hors: ack deiu

15:39:32 <ericP> ericP: i think that's asking if the WG is using the CR to test whether we should go to REC

Eric Prud'hommeaux: i think that's asking if the WG is using the CR to test whether we should go to REC

15:39:58 <ericP> deiu: we can add a paragraph asking if people are interested in implementing it

Andrei Sambra: we can add a paragraph asking if people are interested in implementing it

15:40:32 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/wiki/ProcessTransition2014#Without_a_.22Last_Call.22_signal.2C_how_do_groups_get_review_under_the_new_Process.3F Without a "Last Call" signal, how do groups get review under the new Process?

Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/wiki/ProcessTransition2014#Without_a_.22Last_Call.22_signal.2C_how_do_groups_get_review_under_the_new_Process.3F Without a "Last Call" signal, how do groups get review under the new Process?

15:41:23 <ericP> Arnaud: "we'd like to move to to REC; the CR implementation feedback will hopefully confirm that this is addressing a need"

Arnaud Le Hors: "we'd like to move to to REC; the CR implementation feedback will hopefully confirm that this is addressing a need"

15:42:00 <ericP> ... next Q: list five comments from WG participants

... next Q: did all comments from WG participants?

15:42:55 <ericP> s/list five comments from WG participants/did all comments from WG participants?/
15:43:08 <ericP> ... i don't know if dbooth is satisfied with our response.

... i don't know if dbooth is satisfied with our response.

15:43:19 <ericP> subtopic: Patch Exit Criteria

4.1. Patch Exit Criteria

15:43:46 <ericP> Arnaud: for LDP, we said we need two independent impls of all of the MUSTs in the spec

Arnaud Le Hors: for LDP, we said we need two independent impls of all of the MUSTs in the spec

15:43:51 <betehess> we should tie it to the test suite

Alexandre Bertails: we should tie it to the test suite

15:43:51 <deiu> q+

Andrei Sambra: q+

15:44:21 <betehess> the implementation MUST implement the spec

Alexandre Bertails: the implementation MUST implement the spec

15:44:24 <ericP> ... we don't have MUSTs but just "two implementations" didn't satisfy plh

... we don't have MUSTs but just "two implementations" didn't satisfy plh

15:45:01 <ericP> deiu: so "two impls that cover every case"?

Andrei Sambra: so "two impls that cover every case"?

15:45:05 <betehess> q+

Alexandre Bertails: q+

15:45:14 <Arnaud> ack deiu

Arnaud Le Hors: ack deiu

15:45:18 <ericP> sandro: two patch consumers and two generators

Sandro Hawke: two patch consumers and two generators

15:45:24 <Arnaud> ack betehess

Arnaud Le Hors: ack betehess

15:46:07 <ericP> betehess: i plan to generate patch requests by listening to updates on objects

Alexandre Bertails: i plan to generate patch requests by listening to updates on objects

15:46:31 <ericP> sandro: i meant given two graphs, gen a diff

Sandro Hawke: i meant given two graphs, gen a diff

15:46:46 <ericP> betehess: not needed for my apps

Alexandre Bertails: not needed for my apps

15:47:26 <Arnaud> http://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/#conformance

Arnaud Le Hors: http://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/#conformance

15:47:41 <betehess> we can certainly add something like that

Alexandre Bertails: we can certainly add something like that

15:48:25 <betehess> I propose that we copy-paste that text and then s/Turtle/LD Patch/ :-)

Alexandre Bertails: I propose that we copy-paste that text and then s/Turtle/LD Patch/ :-)

15:48:27 <deiu> +1 (should be good enough)

Andrei Sambra: +1 (should be good enough)

15:50:47 <betehess> we should ask plh if there are "HTML producers"

Alexandre Bertails: we should ask plh if there are "HTML producers"

15:51:18 <ericP> sandro, while I would like to see produces, i think it's sufficient from a spec perspective to only test consumers.

sandro, while I would like to see produces, i think it's sufficient from a spec perspective to only test consumers.

15:51:23 <ericP> sandro: while I would like to see produces, i think it's sufficient from a spec perspective to only test consumers.

Sandro Hawke: while I would like to see produces, i think it's sufficient from a spec perspective to only test consumers.

15:51:34 <betehess> ACTION: betehess to add conformance section in LD Patch (as in Turtle)

ACTION: betehess to add conformance section in LD Patch (as in Turtle)

15:51:34 <trackbot> Created ACTION-154 - Add conformance section in ld patch (as in turtle) [on Alexandre Bertails - due 2015-02-02].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-154 - Add conformance section in ld patch (as in turtle) [on Alexandre Bertails - due 2015-02-02].

15:51:47 <ericP> ... takes a patch and a graph and produces a patched graph

... takes a patch and a graph and produces a patched graph

15:53:08 <ericP> betehess: we need to improve the test suite, but yeah, graph A + patch -> graph B

Alexandre Bertails: we need to improve the test suite, but yeah, graph A + patch -> graph B

15:53:25 <ericP> subtopic: Time duration of CR

4.2. Time duration of CR

15:54:01 <ericP> ericP: we only need a minimal duration

Eric Prud'hommeaux: we only need a minimal duration

15:54:12 <Arnaud> PROPOSED: set expectation duration for CR is 45 days after publication

PROPOSED: set expectation duration for CR is 45 days after publication

15:54:18 <deiu> +1

Andrei Sambra: +1

15:54:18 <betehess> in the test suite, we have: correct syntax, invalid syntax, semantics

Alexandre Bertails: in the test suite, we have: correct syntax, invalid syntax, semantics

15:54:30 <betehess> +0

Alexandre Bertails: +0

15:54:38 <SteveS> +1

Steve Speicher: +1

15:54:54 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: set expectation duration for CR is 45 days after publication

RESOLVED: set expectation duration for CR is 45 days after publication

15:55:16 <ericP> topic: Workshop

5. Workshop

15:56:57 <ericP> azaroth: of 16 folks attending an annotations f2f 21 April in SF, 8 would attend an LDP workshop

Robert Sanderson: of 16 folks attending an annotations f2f 21 April in SF, 8 would attend an LDP workshop

15:57:10 <ericP> ... big room available at $400

... big room available at $400

15:57:28 <ericP> ... annotations folks ask whether to book this.

... annotations folks ask whether to book this.

15:58:12 <ericP> Arnaud: it matches the time and place we had in mind. colo'd with annotation folks

Arnaud Le Hors: it matches the time and place we had in mind. colo'd with annotation folks

15:58:23 <ericP> ... but we need to move on this

... but we need to move on this

15:59:01 <azaroth> +1

Robert Sanderson: +1

15:59:18 <betehess> I'd 50% chance for me to go (I am interested)

Alexandre Bertails: I'd 50% chance for me to go (I am interested)

15:59:26 <ericP> ericP: who'd attend?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: who'd attend?

15:59:33 <ericP> Ashok: what's the agenda?

Ashok Malhotra: what's the agenda?

15:59:58 <ericP> Arnaud: there's a bit of chicken/egg issue. we can make it what we think is useful.

Arnaud Le Hors: there's a bit of chicken/egg issue. we can make it what we think is useful.

15:59:59 <SteveS> +0 (would like to make it, not sure if I will get approval)

Steve Speicher: +0 (would like to make it, not sure if I will get approval)

16:00:21 <ericP> ... main goal is to see what we need to do with LDP Next

... main goal is to see what we need to do with LDP Next

16:03:53 <azaroth> Thanks all :)

Robert Sanderson: Thanks all :)

16:03:59 <Zakim> -azaroth

Zakim IRC Bot: -azaroth

16:04:01 <Zakim> -SteveS

Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveS

16:04:01 <Zakim> -deiu

Zakim IRC Bot: -deiu

16:04:02 <Zakim> -Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud

16:04:03 <Zakim> -TallTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -TallTed

16:04:06 <Zakim> -Alexandre

Zakim IRC Bot: -Alexandre

16:04:35 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ashok_Malhotra

16:26:29 <Zakim> -Sandro

(No events recorded for 21 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

16:27:56 <Zakim> -ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP

16:27:57 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended

16:27:57 <Zakim> Attendees were azaroth, deiu, Arnaud, SteveS, ericP, TallTed, Sandro, Ashok_Malhotra, Alexandre

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were azaroth, deiu, Arnaud, SteveS, ericP, TallTed, Sandro, Ashok_Malhotra, Alexandre

<ericP> present: azaroth, deiu, Arnaud, SteveS, ericP, TallTed, Sandro, Ashok_Malhotra, Alexandre


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