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Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 01 December 2014

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2014.12.01
Present
Arnaud Le Hors, Henry Story, Andrei Sambra, Ted Thibodeau, Sandro Hawke, Ashok Malhotra, Steve Speicher, Pierre-Antoine Champin, Cody Burleson, Alexandre Bertails, Eric Prud'hommeaux
Chair
Arnaud Le Hors
Scribe
Henry Story, Pierre-Antoine Champin
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. Approve the minutes of the 24 November teleconf: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-11-24 link
  2. Open ISSUE-102: Negative indexes in Slice-s link
  3. Open ISSUE-103: Hard vs silent fail on missing delete triples link
  4. Close ISSUE-102 adding Negative indexes in Slice-s link
Topics
14:58:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/12/01-ldp-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/12/01-ldp-irc

14:58:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public

14:58:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be LDP

14:58:20 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes

14:58:21 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
14:58:21 <trackbot> Date: 01 December 2014
15:00:32 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started

15:00:39 <Zakim> +Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud

15:01:05 <Zakim> +bblfish

Zakim IRC Bot: +bblfish

15:01:12 <Zakim> +deiu

Zakim IRC Bot: +deiu

15:01:23 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

15:01:29 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

15:01:29 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it

15:01:31 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:01:31 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted

15:01:37 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

15:01:40 <bblfish> hi

Henry Story: hi

15:01:52 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ashok_Malhotra

15:01:55 <Zakim> +[IBM]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM]

15:01:56 <Zakim> +??P14

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14

15:02:03 <SteveS> zakim, [ibm] is me

Steve Speicher: zakim, [ibm] is me

15:02:03 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveS; got it

15:02:12 <pchampin> zakim, ??P14 is me

Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, ??P14 is me

15:02:12 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pchampin; got it

15:02:35 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

15:02:50 <codyburleson> Zakim, IPcaller is me

Cody Burleson: Zakim, IPcaller is me

15:02:50 <Zakim> +codyburleson; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +codyburleson; got it

15:03:48 <bblfish> yes, I could scribe

Henry Story: yes, I could scribe

15:03:56 <bblfish> but I may fall off due to bad connection

Henry Story: but I may fall off due to bad connection

<bblfish> scribe: bblfish

(Scribe set to Henry Story)

<bblfish> chair: Arnaud
<bblfish> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2014.12.01
15:04:46 <bblfish> Topic: Admin

1. Admin

15:04:51 <Arnaud> Proposal: Approve the minutes of the 24 November teleconf: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-11-24

PROPOSED: Approve the minutes of the 24 November teleconf: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-11-24

15:05:02 <Arnaud> Resolved: Approve the minutes of the 24 November teleconf: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-11-24

RESOLVED: Approve the minutes of the 24 November teleconf: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-11-24

15:05:21 <bblfish> will meet next time December 8

will meet next time December 8

15:05:38 <bblfish> ( I will be at Scala eXchange in London, so probably won't be able to make it )

( I will be at Scala eXchange in London, so probably won't be able to make it )

15:05:46 <Zakim> +Alexandre

Zakim IRC Bot: +Alexandre

<bblfish> Tracking of Actions and Issues

Tracking of Actions and Issues

15:05:58 <Arnaud> PROPOSED: Open ISSUE-102: Negative indexes in Slice-s

PROPOSED: Open ISSUE-102: Negative indexes in Slice-s

15:06:00 <SteveS> +1

Steve Speicher: +1

15:06:02 <betehess> +1

Alexandre Bertails: +1

15:06:04 <pchampin> +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

15:06:09 <bblfish> +1

+1

15:06:10 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

15:06:18 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: Open ISSUE-102: Negative indexes in Slice-s

RESOLVED: Open ISSUE-102: Negative indexes in Slice-s

15:06:24 <Arnaud> PROPOSED: Open ISSUE-103: Hard vs silent fail on missing delete triples

PROPOSED: Open ISSUE-103: Hard vs silent fail on missing delete triples

15:06:29 <SteveS> +1

Steve Speicher: +1

15:06:29 <pchampin> +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

15:06:30 <betehess> +1

Alexandre Bertails: +1

15:06:32 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

15:06:34 <codyburleson> 0

Cody Burleson: 0

15:06:36 <bblfish> +1

+1

15:06:38 <deiu> +1

Andrei Sambra: +1

15:06:43 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: Open ISSUE-103: Hard vs silent fail on missing delete triples

RESOLVED: Open ISSUE-103: Hard vs silent fail on missing delete triples

15:07:06 <Zakim> +ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP

<bblfish> topic: LDP and Paging specs status

2. LDP and Paging specs status

<bblfish> Arnaud: call with W3M went very well

Arnaud Le Hors: call with W3M went very well

<bblfish> ... were asked to clarify the abstract

... were asked to clarify the abstract

<bblfish> ... for PR we will have a 4 week review period

... for PR we will have a 4 week review period

<bblfish> ... make sure your AC rep responds to the questionnaire

... make sure your AC rep responds to the questionnaire

15:11:32 <bblfish> Topic: LDPatch issues

3. LDPatch issues

15:10:58 <SteveS> ISSUE-102?

Steve Speicher: ISSUE-102?

15:10:58 <trackbot> ISSUE-102 -- Negative indexes in Slice-s -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-102 -- Negative indexes in Slice-s -- raised

15:10:58 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/102

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/102

15:12:22 <betehess> q+

Alexandre Bertails: q+

15:12:52 <bblfish> deiu: repeating the position on the issue

Andrei Sambra: repeating the position on the issue

15:13:22 <bblfish> It broke up a bit for me here

It broke up a bit for me here

15:13:28 <Arnaud> ack betehess

Arnaud Le Hors: ack betehess

15:13:30 <bblfish> I don't think I am hearing that well

I don't think I am hearing that well

15:14:15 <bblfish> It's not going to be that good for me to take notes here

It's not going to be that good for me to take notes here

15:14:21 <bblfish> I can't hear the arguments

I can't hear the arguments

<pchampin> scribe: pchampin

(Scribe set to Pierre-Antoine Champin)

15:14:54 <pchampin> betehess: Tim's remark about list indexes is two-fold

Alexandre Bertails: Tim's remark about list indexes is two-fold

15:15:19 <pchampin> ... 1/ editorial remark, suggesting we describe list operations at a higher level

... 1/ editorial remark, suggesting we describe list operations at a higher level

15:15:30 <pchampin> ... without relying on rdf:first and rdf:rest

... without relying on rdf:first and rdf:rest

15:15:46 <Arnaud> ack sandro

Arnaud Le Hors: ack sandro

15:16:06 <pchampin> ... 2/ Tim suggested we allowed negative indexes as they are used in Python

... 2/ Tim suggested we allowed negative indexes as they are used in Python

15:16:19 <pchampin> ... to denote elements from the end of the list

... to denote elements from the end of the list

15:16:46 <pchampin> ... which we think is bad, as the implementation would have to browse the entire list to know its size

... which we think is bad, as the implementation would have to browse the entire list to know its size

15:17:07 <TallTed> Zakim, who's noisy?

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's noisy?

15:17:14 <pchampin> sandro: this should be done, the use case where I want to insert elements to the end of a list

Sandro Hawke: this should be done, the use case where I want to insert elements to the end of a list

15:17:17 <Zakim> TallTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ericP (59%), Arnaud (9%), deiu (4%)

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ericP (59%), Arnaud (9%), deiu (4%)

15:17:24 <TallTed> Zakim, mute ericP

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute ericP

15:17:24 <Zakim> ericP should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: ericP should now be muted

15:17:28 <pchampin> ... without having to know the size of the list, is a very useful one

... without having to know the size of the list, is a very useful one

15:17:46 <betehess> my remark is more like that: there is a little _computational_ cost, but nothing I am afraid of, especially compared to what it can bring, as Sandro said :-)

Alexandre Bertails: my remark is more like that: there is a little _computational_ cost, but nothing I am afraid of, especially compared to what it can bring, as Sandro said :-)

15:17:48 <pchampin> ... there is no additional cost (although scribe didn't really get the argument here)

... there is no additional cost (although scribe didn't really get the argument here)

15:18:11 <Arnaud> PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-102 adding Negative indexes in Slice-s

PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-102 adding Negative indexes in Slice-s

15:18:12 <pchampin> q+

q+

15:18:25 <Arnaud> ack pchampin

Arnaud Le Hors: ack pchampin

15:18:32 <betehess> +0.99

Alexandre Bertails: +0.99

15:19:31 <SteveS> +1

Steve Speicher: +1

15:19:37 <deiu> +1

Andrei Sambra: +1

15:19:38 <ericP> +1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1

15:19:40 <Ashok> +1

Ashok Malhotra: +1

15:19:44 <ericP> sandro: +1

Sandro Hawke: +1 [ Scribe Assist by Eric Prud'hommeaux ]

15:19:48 <pchampin> pchampin: if we add them in slices, it raises the question of adding them in paths as well

Pierre-Antoine Champin: if we add them in slices, it raises the question of adding them in paths as well

15:19:55 <TallTed> +0.75

Ted Thibodeau: +0.75

15:20:13 <codyburleson> 0

Cody Burleson: 0

15:20:18 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

15:20:18 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted

15:20:20 <pchampin> pchampin: +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

15:20:31 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:20:31 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted

15:20:34 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-102 adding Negative indexes in Slice-s

RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-102 adding Negative indexes in Slice-s

15:20:53 <Arnaud>  ISSUE-103: Hard vs silent fail on missing delete triples

Arnaud Le Hors: ISSUE-103: Hard vs silent fail on missing delete triples

15:20:53 <trackbot> Notes added to ISSUE-103 Hard vs silent fail on missing delete triples.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Notes added to ISSUE-103 Hard vs silent fail on missing delete triples.

15:21:33 <pchampin> betehess: in the current spec, Delete fails if asked to delete non-existing triples

Alexandre Bertails: in the current spec, Delete fails if asked to delete non-existing triples

15:22:29 <Ashok> q+

Ashok Malhotra: q+

15:22:32 <pchampin> ... others would prefer that Delete silently pass on non-existing triples

... others would prefer that Delete silently pass on non-existing triples

15:22:37 <SteveS> q+

Steve Speicher: q+

15:22:45 <pchampin> ... as the intention is simply that the triple be absent in the resulting graph

... as the intention is simply that the triple be absent in the resulting graph

15:23:10 <pchampin> ... and that stronger constraints should be handled with ETags for example

... and that stronger constraints should be handled with ETags for example

15:23:54 <pchampin> ashok: why would this be an error to delete a non-existing triple?

Ashok Malhotra: why would this be an error to delete a non-existing triple?

15:24:23 <pchampin> betehess: Tim wants to be able to detect if someone changed the resource in between

Alexandre Bertails: Tim wants to be able to detect if someone changed the resource in between

15:24:51 <deiu> q+

Andrei Sambra: q+

15:24:59 <pchampin> ... and does not want to use etags for this, but rather optimistic concurrency

... and does not want to use etags for this, but rather optimistic concurrency

15:25:22 <Arnaud> ack Ashok

Arnaud Le Hors: ack Ashok

15:25:26 <pchampin> ashok: would it be ok to simply raise a warning?

Ashok Malhotra: would it be ok to simply raise a warning?

15:25:49 <pchampin> sandro: I would not be ok, because he does not want the change to happen

Sandro Hawke: I would not be ok, because he does not want the change to happen

15:25:53 <Arnaud> ack SteveS

Arnaud Le Hors: ack SteveS

15:26:04 <pchampin> betehess: if we start with warnings, we would need a way to "rollback"

Alexandre Bertails: if we start with warnings, we would need a way to "rollback"

15:26:46 <pchampin> steves: why focus on delete; part of the discussion was also about Add, not failing when asked to add an *existing* triple

Steve Speicher: why focus on delete; part of the discussion was also about Add, not failing when asked to add an *existing* triple

15:26:50 <Arnaud> ack deiu

Arnaud Le Hors: ack deiu

15:27:18 <pchampin> betehess: that's true, but Tim's remark was about Delete only

Alexandre Bertails: that's true, but Tim's remark was about Delete only

15:27:20 <betehess> I think that solving the issue for Delete will provide a similar solution for Add

Alexandre Bertails: I think that solving the issue for Delete will provide a similar solution for Add

15:27:43 <Arnaud> ack sandro

Arnaud Le Hors: ack sandro

15:27:44 <pchampin> deiu: ETags do not make sense when several people are changing different parts of the same resource

Andrei Sambra: ETags do not make sense when several people are changing different parts of the same resource

15:29:20 <pchampin> sandro: if you have to change independently parts of a resource, you should probably have several resources

Sandro Hawke: if you have to change independently parts of a resource, you should probably have several resources

15:29:41 <Zakim> -bblfish

Zakim IRC Bot: -bblfish

15:30:13 <SteveS> I like to say, I put in my patch the desired end state of my resource…so operations will not be needed to achieve that

Steve Speicher: I like to say, I put in my patch the desired end state of my resource…some operations will not be needed to achieve that

15:30:18 <pchampin> arnaud: may be we should not express this in terms of silent fail

Arnaud Le Hors: may be we should not express this in terms of silent fail

15:30:24 <SteveS> s/so operations/some operations/
15:30:29 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

15:30:29 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted

15:30:29 <ericP> note that SQL has syntax switches for this

Eric Prud'hommeaux: note that SQL has syntax switches for this

15:30:32 <betehess>  solutions: a) 2 modes are supported b) delete on missing triple fails c) delete on missing triple does not fail

Alexandre Bertails: solutions: a) 2 modes are supported b) delete on missing triple fails c) delete on missing triple does not fail

15:30:32 <pchampin> ... but in terms of what the LD Patch is asking

... but in terms of what the LD Patch is asking

15:31:12 <pchampin> ... if Delete asks that the triple is not there in the resultin graph,

... if Delete asks that the triple is not there in the resultin graph,

15:31:20 <pchampin> ... then it is a success if the triple is already not there

... then it is a success if the triple is already not there

15:31:21 <betehess> q+

Alexandre Bertails: q+

15:31:30 <pchampin> ... and symmetric for Add

... and symmetric for Add

15:31:42 <Arnaud> ack betehess

Arnaud Le Hors: ack betehess

15:31:49 <pchampin> ... So one possibility is to have two variants of Add and Delete

... So one possibility is to have two variants of Add and Delete

15:32:00 <Zakim> +bblfish

Zakim IRC Bot: +bblfish

15:32:20 <pchampin> ... Another one is to have Assertions (as proposed by pchampin on the mailing list)

... Another one is to have Assertions (as proposed by pchampin on the mailing list)

15:32:22 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:32:22 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted

15:32:35 <pchampin> betehess: a third way is to have a global mode for the patch, lax or strict

Alexandre Bertails: a third way is to have a global mode for the patch, lax or strict

15:32:52 <betehess> s/glogale/global/

Alexandre Bertails: s/glogale/global/ (warning: replacement failed)

15:33:25 <SteveS> having a global mode and then perhaps per operation to override/guarantee something, like Delete(mode=[lax | strict])

Steve Speicher: having a global mode and then perhaps per operation to override/guarantee something, like Delete(mode=[lax | strict])

15:35:37 <pchampin> pchampin: assertions gives more flexibility, but may force you to be more verbose

Pierre-Antoine Champin: assertions gives more flexibility, but may force you to be more verbose

15:37:00 <pchampin> sandro: I have no strong opinion on etags / strict mode / assertions

Sandro Hawke: I have no strong opinion on etags / strict mode / assertions

15:37:14 <betehess> so far: a) assertions b) mode strict/lax c) 2 sets of operations d) etags + delete doesn't fail

Alexandre Bertails: so far: a) assertions b) mode strict/lax c) 2 sets of operations d) etags + delete doesn't fail

15:37:36 <pchampin> ... what should you do in strict mode ? completely rollback if one operation fails?

... what should you do in strict mode ? completely rollback if one operation fails?

15:37:53 <Ashok> yes

Ashok Malhotra: yes

15:37:54 <pchampin> steves: yes, that's the semantics of the PATCH verb

Steve Speicher: yes, that's the semantics of the PATCH verb

15:38:04 <pchampin> sandro: that's a heavy burden

Sandro Hawke: that's a heavy burden

15:38:50 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

15:38:50 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted

15:40:26 <pchampin> pchampin: we could constrain assertions to be in the preamble, before any operation

Pierre-Antoine Champin: we could constrain assertions to be in the preamble, before any operation

15:40:28 <betehess> I don't understand the database argument

Alexandre Bertails: I don't understand the database argument

15:40:31 <ericP> why wouldn't it be an issue?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: why wouldn't it be an issue?

15:40:45 <pchampin> tallted: we are again down the path of reinventing database

Ted Thibodeau: we are again down the path of reinventing database

15:40:47 <Ashok> You would have transactions

Ashok Malhotra: You would have transactions

15:40:55 <Zakim> -bblfish

Zakim IRC Bot: -bblfish

15:40:58 <ericP> just because the database can support the desired behavior doesn't mean we have language to signal the desired behavior

Eric Prud'hommeaux: just because the database can support the desired behavior doesn't mean we have language to signal the desired behavior

15:41:11 <betehess> I don't understand how transactions are relevant here, we are only updating one resource, not several at once

Alexandre Bertails: I don't understand how transactions are relevant here, we are only updating one resource, not several at once

15:43:29 <Zakim> +bblfish

Zakim IRC Bot: +bblfish

15:43:39 <TallTed> no argument, ericP -- I'd be happy to have the language for signaling this... but that implies a larger burden on servers to support handling those signals, and on clients to send them

Ted Thibodeau: no argument, ericP -- I'd be happy to have the language for signaling this... but that implies a larger burden on servers to support handling those signals, and on clients to send them

15:43:46 <betehess> q+

Alexandre Bertails: q+

15:43:56 <Arnaud> ack betehess

Arnaud Le Hors: ack betehess

15:44:08 <pchampin> sandro: why not just rely on etags now, and add another feature in a further version?

Sandro Hawke: why not just rely on etags now, and add another feature in a further version?

15:44:42 <pchampin> betehess: we still have to decide on the default behaviour, which will have to be conservative in further versions

Alexandre Bertails: we still have to decide on the default behaviour, which will have to be conservative in further versions

15:45:06 <pchampin> arnaud: sandro's point is that the default would be Delete fails silently

Arnaud Le Hors: sandro's point is that the default would be Delete fails silently

15:45:16 <pchampin> ... this minimal option is appealing

... this minimal option is appealing

15:45:40 <Arnaud> STRAWPOLL: a) assertions b) mode strict/lax c) 2 sets of operations d) etags + delete doesn't fail

STRAWPOLL: a) assertions b) mode strict/lax c) 2 sets of operations d) etags + delete doesn't fail

15:45:55 <pchampin> q+

q+

15:45:58 <SteveS> 0.0 0.2 0.1 1.0

Steve Speicher: 0.0 0.2 0.1 1.0

15:46:03 <Arnaud> ack pchampin

Arnaud Le Hors: ack pchampin

15:46:29 <betehess> -0   +1   +0.5   +0.5

Alexandre Bertails: -0 +1 +0.5 +0.5

15:47:00 <deiu> 0 +1 0 +1

Andrei Sambra: 0 +1 0 +1

15:47:12 <Ashok> b or c

Ashok Malhotra: b or c

15:47:59 <pchampin> 1/3 1/3 0 1/3

1/3 1/3 0 1/3

15:48:04 <TallTed> true neutral, at this point...

Ted Thibodeau: true neutral, at this point...

15:48:06 <codyburleson> a) 0 b) 0 c) 0 d) +0.5

Cody Burleson: a) 0 b) 0 c) 0 d) +0.5

15:49:25 <pchampin> tallted: 2 sets of operations can be useful to chose the operations only *when* you want to be sure

Ted Thibodeau: 2 sets of operations can be useful to chose the operations only *when* you want to be sure

15:49:51 <pchampin> pchampin: @tallted yes I can't see why you would care only on a part of the patch

Pierre-Antoine Champin: @tallted yes I can't see why you would care only on a part of the patch

15:51:09 <pchampin> arnaud: we are running out of time; let people think about it until next week

Arnaud Le Hors: we are running out of time; let people think about it until next week

15:51:46 <betehess> also, timbl brought up an issue on the error status code... but he didn't send that on the public mailing list (did he?)

Alexandre Bertails: also, timbl brought up an issue on the error status code... but he didn't send that on the public mailing list (did he?)

15:51:39 <pchampin> topic: Working Group rechartering

4. Working Group rechartering

<pchampin> arnaud: asked W3M for guidance

Arnaud Le Hors: asked W3M for guidance

15:52:57 <pchampin> arnaud: we explained that we have work in progress ; mentionned the CSS WG as an example

Arnaud Le Hors: we explained that we have work in progress ; mentionned the CSS WG as an example

15:53:18 <pchampin> ... but it does not seem to be an example to follow

... but it does not seem to be an example to follow

15:53:34 <pchampin> ... the easiest would be to ask for an extension

... the easiest would be to ask for an extension

15:54:31 <pchampin> ... and we already have some positive feedback from W3M

... and we already have some positive feedback from W3M

15:55:02 <betehess> can't we ask like 3 months at a time? could avoid asking for too much

Alexandre Bertails: can't we ask like 3 months at a time? could avoid asking for too much

15:55:10 <pchampin> sandro: IMO we could ask 6m or 1y

Sandro Hawke: IMO we could ask 6m or 1y

15:56:37 <pchampin> arnaud: @betehess, it is not really good to keep asking for an extension

Arnaud Le Hors: @betehess, it is not really good to keep asking for an extension

15:56:50 <pchampin> ... better to ask once, and when we are ready propose a new charter

... better to ask once, and when we are ready propose a new charter

15:57:31 <pchampin> ashok: we can ask for 12m, and tell if we are done earlier

Ashok Malhotra: we can ask for 12m, and tell if we are done earlier

15:57:43 <pchampin> arnaud: do people think that 6m would be enough?

Arnaud Le Hors: do people think that 6m would be enough?

15:57:48 <ericP> i'm with Sandro on this; go for a year

Eric Prud'hommeaux: i'm with Sandro on this; go for a year

15:57:55 <betehess> in my case, 6 months is enough to do more than playing, including LD Patch

Alexandre Bertails: in my case, 6 months is enough to do more than playing, including LD Patch

15:57:58 <SteveS> seems a little short to me, I would think end of summer 2015

Steve Speicher: seems a little short to me, I would think end of summer 2015

15:58:21 <betehess> and I like having shorter deadlines, eg. 6 months, because you try harder to deliver things

Alexandre Bertails: and I like having shorter deadlines, eg. 6 months, because you try harder to deliver things

15:58:40 <bblfish> I am happy with 6 months, but you may as well get more if you can.

Henry Story: I am happy with 6 months, but you may as well get more if you can.

15:58:53 <pchampin> sandro: we can argue that we need less resources during the extension

Sandro Hawke: we can argue that we need less resources during the extension

15:58:55 <SteveS> I agree to try to achieve before, so 6 would be a good forcing timeframe

Steve Speicher: I agree to try to achieve before, so 6 would be a good forcing timeframe

15:59:06 <pchampin> arnaud: we could indeed reduce the frequency of calls

Arnaud Le Hors: we could indeed reduce the frequency of calls

15:59:42 <betehess> 6 months to deliver, 3 months to wrap things up :-)

Alexandre Bertails: 6 months to deliver, 3 months to wrap things up :-)

16:00:50 <betehess> thanks

Alexandre Bertails: thanks

16:00:51 <Zakim> -bblfish

Zakim IRC Bot: -bblfish

16:00:53 <bblfish> thanks

Henry Story: thanks

16:00:56 <Zakim> -deiu

Zakim IRC Bot: -deiu

16:00:57 <Zakim> -Alexandre

Zakim IRC Bot: -Alexandre

16:00:57 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

16:00:59 <Zakim> -SteveS

Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveS

16:00:59 <Zakim> -codyburleson

Zakim IRC Bot: -codyburleson

16:01:00 <Zakim> -Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud

16:01:00 <Zakim> -ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP

16:01:02 <Zakim> -TallTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -TallTed

16:01:03 <bblfish> sorry bad connection here

Henry Story: sorry bad connection here

16:01:07 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ashok_Malhotra

16:04:43 <pchampin> scribe: pchampin
16:35:01 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, pchampin, in SW_LDP()10:00AM

(No events recorded for 33 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: disconnecting the lone participant, pchampin, in SW_LDP()10:00AM

16:35:02 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended

16:35:02 <Zakim> Attendees were Arnaud, bblfish, deiu, TallTed, Sandro, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, pchampin, codyburleson, Alexandre, ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Arnaud, bblfish, deiu, TallTed, Sandro, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, pchampin, codyburleson, Alexandre, ericP

<pchampin> Present: Arnaud, bblfish, deiu, TallTed, Sandro, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, pchampin, codyburleson, Alexandre, ericP


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