13:59:15 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/13-ldp-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/13-ldp-irc ←
13:59:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
13:59:19 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be LDP ←
13:59:19 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started ←
13:59:20 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
13:59:20 <trackbot> Date: 13 October 2014
13:59:28 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
13:59:59 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:00:18 <codyburleson> Zakim, IPcaller is me.
Cody Burleson: Zakim, IPcaller is me. ←
14:00:18 <Zakim> +codyburleson; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +codyburleson; got it ←
14:00:59 <Zakim> +Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud ←
14:01:28 <Zakim> +JohnArwe
Zakim IRC Bot: +JohnArwe ←
14:01:53 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ashok_Malhotra ←
14:02:32 <azaroth> zakim, who is here?
Robert Sanderson: zakim, who is here? ←
14:02:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see azaroth, codyburleson, Arnaud, JohnArwe, Ashok_Malhotra
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see azaroth, codyburleson, Arnaud, JohnArwe, Ashok_Malhotra ←
14:02:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see MiguelAraCo, JohnArwe, Ashok, Zakim, RRSAgent, codyburleson, azaroth, bblfish, nmihindu, tommorris, taaz, Arnaud, sandro, Yves, ericP, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see MiguelAraCo, JohnArwe, Ashok, Zakim, RRSAgent, codyburleson, azaroth, bblfish, nmihindu, tommorris, taaz, Arnaud, sandro, Yves, ericP, trackbot ←
14:03:42 <Zakim> +??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8 ←
14:04:13 <Zakim> +??P9
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9 ←
14:04:48 <nmihindu> Zakim, ??P9 is me
Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Zakim, ??P9 is me ←
14:04:48 <Zakim> +nmihindu; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +nmihindu; got it ←
14:04:54 <nmihindu> Zakim, mute me
Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Zakim, mute me ←
14:04:54 <Zakim> nmihindu should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: nmihindu should now be muted ←
14:05:49 <roger> Zakim, P8 is me
Roger Menday: Zakim, P8 is me ←
14:05:49 <Zakim> sorry, roger, I do not recognize a party named 'P8'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, roger, I do not recognize a party named 'P8' ←
14:05:55 <roger> Zakim, ??P8 is me
Roger Menday: Zakim, ??P8 is me ←
14:05:55 <Zakim> +roger; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +roger; got it ←
14:05:58 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
14:05:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see azaroth, codyburleson, Arnaud, JohnArwe, Ashok_Malhotra, roger, nmihindu (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see azaroth, codyburleson, Arnaud, JohnArwe, Ashok_Malhotra, roger, nmihindu (muted) ←
14:08:22 <roger> Scribe: Roger
(Scribe set to Roger Menday)
<roger> chair: Arnaud
<roger> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2014.10.13
<roger> topic: Admin
14:08:26 <MiguelAraCo> Zakim, I'm with codyburleson
Miguel Aragón: Zakim, I'm with codyburleson ←
14:08:26 <Zakim> +MiguelAraCo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MiguelAraCo; got it ←
14:08:40 <Arnaud> Proposal: Approve the minutes of the 6 October teleconf: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-10-06
PROPOSED: Approve the minutes of the 6 October teleconf: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-10-06 ←
14:08:48 <Ashok> scribenick: roger
14:09:10 <roger> Resolved: Minutes of 6 October approved
RESOLVED: Minutes of 6 October approved ←
14:10:13 <roger> Topic: LDP Spec
14:10:45 <roger> Plan is to try to get to proposed recommendation.
Plan is to try to get to proposed recommendation. ←
14:11:12 <roger> Arnaud is maintaining a disposition of comments document.
Arnaud is maintaining a disposition of comments document. ←
14:11:39 <roger> This is useful because there has been an *avalanche* of comments recently :)
This is useful because there has been an *avalanche* of comments recently :) ←
14:15:06 <roger> Rob had a comment about the use of the slug vs. relative URIs in POSTed content.
Rob had a comment about the use of the slug vs. relative URIs in POSTed content. ←
14:17:47 <JohnArwe> zakim, who is speaking?
John Arwe: zakim, who is speaking? ←
14:17:57 <Zakim> JohnArwe, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: azaroth (14%), codyburleson (95%), JohnArwe (20%), roger (4%)
Zakim IRC Bot: JohnArwe, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: azaroth (14%), codyburleson (95%), JohnArwe (20%), roger (4%) ←
14:18:28 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:18:47 <roger> Miguel has a some concern about how the spec is interpreted, and how if this might have an effect on interoperability.
Miguel has a some concern about how the spec is interpreted, and how if this might have an effect on interoperability. ←
14:18:47 <bblfish> Zakim, IPcaller is me
Henry Story: Zakim, IPcaller is me ←
14:18:47 <Zakim> +bblfish; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bblfish; got it ←
14:19:00 <bblfish> hi
Henry Story: hi ←
14:20:31 <roger> Rob: maybe we could clarify some of these issues in the companion documents
Robert Sanderson: maybe we could clarify some of these issues in the companion documents ←
14:21:13 <roger> @John - that's it !
@John - that's it ! ←
14:23:29 <roger> some discussion about the "interaction model" ...
some discussion about the "interaction model" ... ←
14:27:02 <codyburleson> q+
Cody Burleson: q+ ←
14:27:20 <JohnArwe> interaction model use case: I want to make a read-only copy (archive) of a container ... so its content looks like a container, but it doesn't act like one. e.g. if a member is deleted, the copy does not change.
John Arwe: interaction model use case: I want to make a read-only copy (archive) of a container ... so its content looks like a container, but it doesn't act like one. e.g. if a member is deleted, the copy does not change. ←
14:27:22 <bblfish> It's a distinction between what the server says and what the content says. And we decided the servers statements go in the header
Henry Story: It's a distinction between what the server says and what the content says. And we decided the servers statements go in the header ←
14:27:33 <azaroth> q+
Robert Sanderson: q+ ←
14:27:34 <Arnaud> ack codyburleson
Arnaud Le Hors: ack codyburleson ←
14:27:42 <bblfish> So if the header says something is an LDPC then that's what the client goes on
Henry Story: So if the header says something is an LDPC then that's what the client goes on ←
14:28:57 <JohnArwe> there's an existing note on 5.2.3.4 (containers can create containers) that we could add to if we decide clarifications are needed.
John Arwe: there's an existing note on 5.2.3.4 (containers can create containers) that we could add to if we decide clarifications are needed. ←
14:28:59 <Arnaud> ack azaroth
Arnaud Le Hors: ack azaroth ←
14:29:13 <roger> Cody: whats to indicate to the server about the target resource and the _context_ about how it should be treated.
Cody Burleson: whats to indicate to the server about the target resource and the _context_ about how it should be treated. ←
14:29:15 <JohnArwe> ...since that's where interaction model comes up, seems like a logical place.
John Arwe: ...since that's where interaction model comes up, seems like a logical place. ←
14:29:21 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
14:30:28 <MiguelAraCo> q+
Miguel Aragón: q+ ←
14:30:36 <Arnaud> ack MiguelAraCo
Arnaud Le Hors: ack MiguelAraCo ←
14:31:33 <roger> Miguel, thinks that section 5.2.3.4 needs a review
Miguel, thinks that section 5.2.3.4 needs a review ←
14:32:28 <roger> John suggests to Miguel to propose how 5.2.3.4 should be changed.
John suggests to Miguel to propose how 5.2.3.4 should be changed. ←
14:32:49 <Arnaud> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/ldp.html#ldpc-post-createrdf
Arnaud Le Hors: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/ldp.html#ldpc-post-createrdf ←
14:35:09 <roger> Miguel thinks that the interaction model is something the client indicates to the server ... (if i understand correctly)
Miguel thinks that the interaction model is something the client indicates to the server ... (if i understand correctly) ←
14:35:35 <JohnArwe> Miguel, were the requests you were talking about ONLY post to a container (what 5.2.3.4 covers) or every request to your server?
John Arwe: Miguel, were the requests you were talking about ONLY post to a container (what 5.2.3.4 covers) or every request to your server? ←
14:37:05 <azaroth> q+
Robert Sanderson: q+ ←
14:37:17 <azaroth> q-
Robert Sanderson: q- ←
14:37:19 <azaroth> :)
14:38:21 <azaroth> s/:)//
14:42:12 <JohnArwe> so their server conflicts with 5.2.3.4 bullets 1 and 2, because those MUSTs apply for the life of the created resource and theirs are dynamically polymorphic
John Arwe: so their server conflicts with 5.2.3.4 bullets 1 and 2, because those MUSTs apply for the life of the created resource and theirs are dynamically polymorphic ←
14:43:46 <Zakim> +ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP ←
14:46:32 <azaroth> Is there a test for this?
Robert Sanderson: Is there a test for this? ←
14:46:50 <azaroth> I think that our server will run afoul of the same issue.
Robert Sanderson: I think that our server will run afoul of the same issue. ←
14:48:20 <JohnArwe> I seriously doubt there's a test for NOT doing X, in this case.
John Arwe: I seriously doubt there's a test for NOT doing X, in this case. ←
14:48:44 <nmihindu> azaroth, it would be hard to check automatically whether the interaction model stays the same in the test suite I guess.
Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: azaroth, it would be hard to check automatically whether the interaction model stays the same in the test suite I guess. ←
14:49:54 <JohnArwe> ... right, the old "testing a negative is hard" problem
John Arwe: ... right, the old "testing a negative is hard" problem ←
14:49:58 <azaroth> A possible test: Create a resource with LDPR interaction model, with body that describes a container, and then try to POST to the resource.
Robert Sanderson: A possible test: Create a resource with LDPR interaction model, with body that describes a container, and then try to POST to the resource. ←
14:50:15 <azaroth> Which we'll fail, as we treat every resource as a container unless the request specifies otherwise
Robert Sanderson: Which we'll fail, as we treat every resource as a container unless the request specifies otherwise ←
14:50:42 <azaroth> And I think, if I understand, Miguel will also fail
Robert Sanderson: And I think, if I understand, Miguel will also fail ←
14:51:35 <bblfish> To me it makes sense to turn an LDPR into an LDPC
Henry Story: To me it makes sense to turn an LDPR into an LDPC ←
14:51:59 <bblfish> or rather to "discover" that an LDPR is an LDPC
Henry Story: or rather to "discover" that an LDPR is an LDPC ←
14:52:36 <roger> Cody: the first bullet of 5.2.3.4 might cause some issues, but, Arnaud view is that Cody's implementation is just offering some extensions on top of what is spec'ed. So, it's not a conflict.
Cody Burleson: the first bullet of 5.2.3.4 might cause some issues, but, Arnaud view is that Cody's implementation is just offering some extensions on top of what is spec'ed. So, it's not a conflict. ←
14:52:53 <JohnArwe> azaroth, when you create an LDPR (sic), do you just refuse all Posts then? nothing in LDP forces you to do that, it's just that LDP doesn't constrain what any post to an ldpr does.
John Arwe: azaroth, when you create an LDPR (sic), do you just refuse all Posts then? nothing in LDP forces you to do that, it's just that LDP doesn't constrain what any post to an ldpr does. ←
14:53:51 <roger> subTopic: Indirect Container issues
14:54:01 <roger> ... and implementation issues
... and implementation issues ←
14:54:26 <Arnaud> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/tests/reports/ldp.html#indirectcontainer-must
Arnaud Le Hors: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/tests/reports/ldp.html#indirectcontainer-must ←
14:54:55 <azaroth> JohnArwe: Due to the polymorphism you would need to specify that the interaction model was LDPR on the POST as well for us to reject it.
John Arwe: Due to the polymorphism you would need to specify that the interaction model was LDPR on the POST as well for us to reject it. [ Scribe Assist by Robert Sanderson ] ←
14:55:42 <azaroth> azaroth: will respond to your strawman on list as well, as we're out of time today
Robert Sanderson: will respond to your strawman on list as well, as we're out of time today [ Scribe Assist by Robert Sanderson ] ←
14:55:54 <JohnArwe> fair enough, but I think it's still true that LDP does not force you to refuse Posts to LDPRs.
John Arwe: fair enough, but I think it's still true that LDP does not force you to refuse Posts to LDPRs. ←
14:55:59 <azaroth> Thanks for that mail, it was spot on.
Robert Sanderson: Thanks for that mail, it was spot on. ←
14:57:23 <roger> Arnaud: If we claim to have implementations of IndirectContainer, but, don't seem to have test passes for the relevant tests, where does this leave us ?
Arnaud Le Hors: If we claim to have implementations of IndirectContainer, but, don't seem to have test passes for the relevant tests, where does this leave us ? ←
14:58:04 <azaroth> JohnArwe: Agreed that's our implementation choice rather than a requirement of the spec. 4.2.3 is pretty clear.
John Arwe: Agreed that's our implementation choice rather than a requirement of the spec. 4.2.3 is pretty clear. [ Scribe Assist by Robert Sanderson ] ←
14:58:47 <roger> Next week: vote : IC or non-IC ? decision time ...
Next week: vote : IC or non-IC ? decision time ... ←
14:58:52 <roger> Topic: Paging
15:02:03 <Arnaud> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/LDP_Paging_LC2_Comments
Arnaud Le Hors: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/LDP_Paging_LC2_Comments ←
15:02:35 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ashok_Malhotra ←
15:02:37 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
15:02:39 <Zakim> -roger
Zakim IRC Bot: -roger ←
15:02:42 <Zakim> -JohnArwe
Zakim IRC Bot: -JohnArwe ←
15:02:44 <Zakim> -nmihindu
Zakim IRC Bot: -nmihindu ←
15:02:44 <Zakim> -azaroth
Zakim IRC Bot: -azaroth ←
15:02:46 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
15:02:49 <Zakim> -ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP ←
15:02:52 <Zakim> -codyburleson
Zakim IRC Bot: -codyburleson ←
15:02:54 <Zakim> -bblfish
Zakim IRC Bot: -bblfish ←
15:02:56 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended ←
15:02:56 <Zakim> Attendees were azaroth, codyburleson, Arnaud, JohnArwe, Ashok_Malhotra, nmihindu, roger, MiguelAraCo, bblfish, Sandro, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were azaroth, codyburleson, Arnaud, JohnArwe, Ashok_Malhotra, nmihindu, roger, MiguelAraCo, bblfish, Sandro, ericP ←
<roger> Present: azaroth, codyburleson, Arnaud, JohnArwe, Ashok_Malhotra, nmihindu, roger, MiguelAraCo, bblfish, Sandro, ericP
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