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Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 29 September 2014

Agenda
https://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2014.09.29
Present
Arnaud Le Hors, Steve Speicher, Andrei Sambra, Ashok Malhotra, Ted Thibodeau, Henry Story, Roger Menday, Alexandre Bertails, Sandro Hawke, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Nandana Mihindukulasooriya
Chair
Arnaud Le Hors
Scribe
Steve Speicher
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. Minutes of 22 September 2014: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-09-22 approved link
  2. Open Issue-101 link
Topics
13:59:00 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-ldp-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-ldp-irc

13:59:02 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public

13:59:04 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be LDP

13:59:04 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute

13:59:05 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
13:59:05 <trackbot> Date: 29 September 2014
13:59:43 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started

13:59:50 <Zakim> +Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud

14:01:05 <Zakim> +[IBM]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM]

14:01:17 <SteveS> zakim, [IBM] is me

Steve Speicher: zakim, [IBM] is me

14:01:18 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveS; got it

14:01:47 <Zakim> +deiu

Zakim IRC Bot: +deiu

14:01:54 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ashok_Malhotra

14:04:33 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

14:04:42 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

14:04:42 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it

14:04:44 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

14:04:44 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted

14:05:08 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

14:05:21 <bblfish_> Zakim, IPcaller is me

Henry Story: Zakim, IPcaller is me

14:05:21 <Zakim> +bblfish_; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bblfish_; got it

14:05:29 <bblfish> hi

Henry Story: hi

14:05:51 <Zakim> +Roger

Zakim IRC Bot: +Roger

14:05:59 <Zakim> +Alexandre

Zakim IRC Bot: +Alexandre

14:07:06 <SteveS> Scribe: SteveS

(Scribe set to Steve Speicher)

<SteveS> chair: Arnaud
<SteveS> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2014.09.29
14:07:25 <Arnaud> Proposal: Approve the minutes of the 22 September teleconf: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-09-22

PROPOSED: Approve the minutes of the 22 September teleconf: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-09-22

14:07:34 <SteveS> Topic: Admin

1. Admin

<SteveS> Proposed: approve last week's minutes: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-09-22

PROPOSED: approve last week's minutes: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-09-22

14:07:53 <SteveS> Arnaud: no objectsion, approved

Arnaud Le Hors: no objections, approved

14:08:06 <SteveS> s/objectsion/objections/
<SteveS> Resolved: Minutes of 22 September 2014: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-09-22 approved

RESOLVED: Minutes of 22 September 2014: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-09-22 approved

14:08:28 <SteveS> Next meeting 10.06, not conflicts

Next meeting 10.06, not conflicts

14:08:32 <betehess> https://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/101

Alexandre Bertails: https://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/101

14:08:35 <SteveS> Topic: Tracking of Actions and Issues

2. Tracking of Actions and Issues

14:08:54 <SteveS> Arnaud: new issue opened around ldpatch ISSUE-101

Arnaud Le Hors: new issue opened around ldpatch ISSUE-101

14:09:24 <SteveS> betehess: Summarizes what is being requested in 101, via plain ole turtle

Alexandre Bertails: Summarizes what is being requested in 101, via plain ole turtle

14:09:42 <SteveS> Arnaud: any objections to opening issue?

Arnaud Le Hors: any objections to opening issue?

14:09:55 <SteveS> RESOLVED: Open Issue-101

RESOLVED: Open ISSUE-101

14:10:04 <SteveS> Topic: 2NN

3. 2NN

14:10:24 <SteveS> Arnaud: It is basically dead, based on a forwarded note from mnot to sandro

Arnaud Le Hors: It is basically dead, based on a forwarded note from mnot to sandro

14:11:22 <SteveS> mnot has reported that the WG is not in support of it, though he has invited someone to come to F2F meeting in November to present/defend it

mnot has reported that the WG is not in support of it, though he has invited someone to come to F2F meeting in November to present/defend it

14:12:19 <SteveS> (Arnaud summarizes approval process on issues within HTTP WG)

(Arnaud summarizes approval process on issues within HTTP WG)

14:12:20 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

14:13:07 <SteveS> Arnaud: will need to pull from LDP-Paging, 2NN specifically

Arnaud Le Hors: will need to pull from LDP-Paging, 2NN specifically

14:13:29 <SteveS> sandro: there are some other options on the table that meet some of our requirements

Sandro Hawke: there are some other options on the table that meet some of our requirements

14:13:32 <Zakim> +ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP

14:14:46 <SteveS> sandro: idea would be to possibly have a request header to indicate to follow the link for the client and respond with 200

Sandro Hawke: idea would be to possibly have a request header to indicate to follow the link for the client and respond with 200

14:15:03 <SteveS> …tbl thinks this doesn’t match quite 200 but ok with it

…tbl thinks this doesn’t match quite 200 but ok with it

14:15:39 <SteveS> …another proposal is to use Prefer header, such as follow-303

…another proposal is to use Prefer header, such as follow-303

14:16:10 <SteveS> …a header has a lower bar than status code, prefer even lower bar

…a header has a lower bar than status code, prefer even lower bar

14:16:12 <bblfish> That last one I like the most - put the body in the 303

Henry Story: That last one I like the most - put the body in the 303

14:16:47 <SteveS> …3rd was to reply with 303 response code and entity body

…3rd was to reply with 303 response code and entity body

14:17:24 <bblfish> agree

Henry Story: agree

14:17:51 <bblfish> q+

Henry Story: q+

14:18:49 <SteveS> …last option was to supply link or content-location headers with 200 response

…last option was to supply link or content-location headers with 200 response

14:19:20 <Zakim> +??P19

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P19

14:19:32 <nmihindu> Zakim, ??P19 is me

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Zakim, ??P19 is me

14:19:32 <Zakim> +nmihindu; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +nmihindu; got it

14:19:41 <nmihindu> Zakim, mute me

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Zakim, mute me

14:19:41 <Zakim> nmihindu should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: nmihindu should now be muted

14:20:05 <Arnaud> ack bblfish

Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish

14:20:27 <SteveS> bblfish: likes the 303 option the best, to include the entity body

Henry Story: likes the 303 option the best, to include the entity body

14:20:58 <SteveS> bblfish: summarizes some experience with atompub wg

Henry Story: summarizes some experience with atompub wg

14:22:24 <SteveS> bblfish: perhaps we could suggest a clarification with use of our options, such as with 303 option

Henry Story: perhaps we could suggest a clarification with use of our options, such as with 303 option

14:23:02 <SteveS> sandro: things the Prefer header option is the best one

Sandro Hawke: thinks the Prefer header option is the best one

14:23:23 <SteveS> s/things/thinks/
14:24:03 <SteveS> Arnaud: sounds like we get the same behavior as 2nn with the Prefer header

Arnaud Le Hors: sounds like we get the same behavior as 2nn with the Prefer header

14:24:32 <bblfish> I don't really like the Prefer header

Henry Story: I don't really like the Prefer header

14:25:33 <SteveS> sandro: has the nice feature, that servers will know that clients can handle getting a 200 with redirect content included and Preference-applied response header

Sandro Hawke: has the nice feature, that servers will know that clients can handle getting a 200 with redirect content included and Preference-applied response header

14:26:43 <SteveS> ericP: there is a chance that a f2f discussion with mnot and tbl in coming days can determine the health of 2nn proposal

Eric Prud'hommeaux: there is a chance that a f2f discussion with mnot and tbl in coming days can determine the health of 2nn proposal

14:28:18 <SteveS> Arnaud: anyone want to go to Hawaii to defend 2nn proposal?

Arnaud Le Hors: anyone want to go to Hawaii to defend 2nn proposal?

14:28:24 <SteveS> …not hearing anyone

…not hearing anyone

14:29:43 <SteveS> sandro: trying to get a read on direction of various proposals, if wg is good with prefer and stop effort on 2nn

Sandro Hawke: trying to get a read on direction of various proposals, if wg is good with prefer and stop effort on 2nn

14:30:40 <bblfish> q+

Henry Story: q+

14:31:12 <Arnaud> ack bblfish

Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish

14:31:38 <SteveS> SteveS: don’t have a big need for 2nn, though the prefer option seems reasonable

Steve Speicher: don’t have a big need for 2nn, though the prefer option seems reasonable

14:32:08 <betehess> +1 to don’t have a big need for 2nn, though the prefer option seems reasonable

Alexandre Bertails: +1 to don’t have a big need for 2nn, though the prefer option seems reasonable

14:32:27 <SteveS> bblfish: things the prefer option is a bit odd, seems like the need to is request the information as fast as possible

Henry Story: things the prefer option is a bit odd, seems like the need to is request the information as fast as possible

14:35:15 <SteveS> Arnaud: think we should agree 2nn is a dead end, then agree which is the nest best option

Arnaud Le Hors: think we should agree 2nn is a dead end, then agree which is the nest best option

14:35:26 <Ashok> q+

Ashok Malhotra: q+

14:35:43 <SteveS> STRAWPOLL: To use Prefer header to follow 303 (instead of 2nn)

STRAWPOLL: To use Prefer header to follow 303 (instead of 2nn)

14:35:58 <deiu> 0

Andrei Sambra: 0

14:36:04 <Arnaud> ack Ashok

Arnaud Le Hors: ack Ashok

14:36:17 <bblfish> is this followed by 303 + some type of content right

Henry Story: is this followed by 303 + some type of content right

14:36:29 <SteveS> SteveS: +0.5

Steve Speicher: +0.5

14:36:49 <nmihindu> +0

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: +0

14:36:50 <SteveS> bblfish, 303 or 200 (most likely 200) whatever we define

bblfish, 303 or 200 (most likely 200) whatever we define

14:37:09 <Ashok> +1

Ashok Malhotra: +1

14:37:10 <betehess> +0.5, not against 303+Prefer, would prefer 2NN, but I don't care enough anyway

Alexandre Bertails: +0.5, not against 303+Prefer, would prefer 2NN, but I don't care enough anyway

14:37:46 <bblfish> +0.5 for 303, less with 200, I'd rather have the server decide from knowledge of the client if it should or not return 303

Henry Story: +0.5 for 303, less with 200, I'd rather have the server decide from knowledge of the client if it should or not return 303

14:38:20 <SteveS> Arnaud: seems like people are leaning towards Prefer header approach

Arnaud Le Hors: seems like people are leaning towards Prefer header approach

14:38:32 <SteveS> Topic: Paging

4. Paging

14:38:42 <sandro> bblfish, one could do both...   the client could say it wants the body of a 303 returned as a 200 or as a 303.      not sure why.

Sandro Hawke: bblfish, one could do both... the client could say it wants the body of a 303 returned as a 200 or as a 303. not sure why.

14:39:35 <SteveS> Arnaud: JohnArwe had some back and forward on the mailing list, not sure if accepting of response or no time to respond

Arnaud Le Hors: JohnArwe had some back and forward on the mailing list, not sure if accepting of response or no time to respond

14:39:46 <SteveS> …need to get them to say they are ok with response

…need to get them to say they are ok with response

14:39:48 <bblfish>  ( I'd rather 303 - makes more sense to me - with a hint from the client making it more regular . Perhaps the client could just say that it is LDP aware )

Henry Story: ( I'd rather 303 - makes more sense to me - with a hint from the client making it more regular . Perhaps the client could just say that it is LDP aware )

14:40:15 <bblfish> complicated issue really

Henry Story: complicated issue really

14:40:28 <bblfish> wonder what happens with 303 and caches.

Henry Story: wonder what happens with 303 and caches.

14:41:24 <SteveS> ACTION: on SteveS to response confirming agreement from paging commenters

ACTION: on SteveS to response confirming agreement from paging commenters

14:41:24 <trackbot> Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/users>.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/users>.

14:41:43 <SteveS> Topic: LDP spec

5. LDP spec

14:42:53 <SteveS> SteveS: have responded to Reto’s comment, awaiting respond

Steve Speicher: have responded to Reto’s comment, awaiting respond

14:43:10 <SteveS> Ashok: has read it and ok with the change

Ashok Malhotra: has read it and ok with the change

14:43:35 <SteveS> Arnaud: if anyone has any feedback, then please give, otherwise we’ll continue down this road.

Arnaud Le Hors: if anyone has any feedback, then please give, otherwise we’ll continue down this road.

14:43:53 <SteveS> Topic: LDP Implementation progress

6. LDP Implementation progress

14:44:12 <SteveS> bblfish: making progress with indirection containers

Henry Story: making progress with indirection containers

14:44:20 <SteveS> Topic: Primer

7. Primer

14:44:51 <SteveS> Arnaud: issue with primer, went out as rec-track unintentionally, triggered call for exception for patents

Arnaud Le Hors: issue with primer, went out as rec-track unintentionally, triggered call for exception for patents

14:46:02 <SteveS> roger: did some updates to the primer, not quite ready for re-publication

Roger Menday: did some updates to the primer, not quite ready for re-publication

14:46:29 <SteveS> Topic: LD Patch

8. LD Patch

14:47:38 <SteveS> betehess: talking about ISSUE-101, some complex turtle to add in would be difficult with current Add statements

Alexandre Bertails: talking about ISSUE-101, some complex turtle to add in would be difficult with current Add statements

14:48:15 <SteveS> …impls would need to deal with full turtle

…impls would need to deal with full turtle

14:49:52 <SteveS> SteveS: if just appending triples, then one could just use PATCH or POST with text/turtle

Steve Speicher: if just appending triples, then one could just use PATCH or POST with text/turtle

14:50:17 <SteveS> betehess: this really isn’t defined and only supports append, it wouldn’t be too much to add to LD-Patch

Alexandre Bertails: this really isn’t defined and only supports append, it wouldn’t be too much to add to LD-Patch

14:50:23 <bblfish> q+

Henry Story: q+

14:50:31 <Arnaud> ack bblfish

Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish

14:50:49 <SteveS> bblfish: does this make LD Patch closer to Turtle Patch?

Henry Story: does this make LD Patch closer to Turtle Patch?

14:50:53 <SteveS> betehess: no, not related

Alexandre Bertails: no, not related

14:52:22 <ericP> q+

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+

14:52:33 <Arnaud> ack ericP

Arnaud Le Hors: ack ericP

14:53:14 <SteveS> ACTION on betehess to add support for arbitrary text/turtle for the Add operation in LDPatch

ACTION on betehess to add support for arbitrary text/turtle for the Add operation in LDPatch

14:53:14 <trackbot> Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/users>.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/users>.

14:54:21 <betehess> ACTION: betehess to add support for arbitrary text/turtle for the Add operation in LDPatch

ACTION: betehess to add support for arbitrary text/turtle for the Add operation in LDPatch

14:54:21 <trackbot> Created ACTION-150 - Add support for arbitrary text/turtle for the add operation in ldpatch [on Alexandre Bertails - due 2014-10-06].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-150 - Add support for arbitrary text/turtle for the add operation in ldpatch [on Alexandre Bertails - due 2014-10-06].

14:55:20 <Arnaud> https://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/100

Arnaud Le Hors: https://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/100

14:55:33 <deiu> q+

Andrei Sambra: q+

14:55:37 <SteveS> ISSUE-100?

ISSUE-100?

14:55:37 <trackbot> ISSUE-100 -- Should ld-patch use a slash like sparql does, instead of as it currently does? -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-100 -- Should ld-patch use a slash like sparql does, instead of as it currently does? -- open

14:55:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/100

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/100

14:55:48 <deiu> q-

Andrei Sambra: q-

14:55:52 <deiu> q+

Andrei Sambra: q+

14:55:57 <Arnaud> ack deiu

Arnaud Le Hors: ack deiu

14:56:52 <betehess> PROPOSAL: resolve ISSUE-100 by not changing how it's done today

PROPOSED: resolve ISSUE-100 by not changing how it's done today

14:56:59 <SteveS> betehess: believes should leave it as is

Alexandre Bertails: believes should leave it as is

14:58:01 <deiu> +1 to leaving it as is (easier for parsing and checking for reverse order)

Andrei Sambra: +1 to leaving it as is (easier for parsing and checking for reverse order)

14:59:40 <SteveS> SteveS: +0, just be clear what the syntax is

Steve Speicher: +0, just be clear what the syntax is

15:01:17 <SteveS> (scribe wasn’t able to capture all the things sandro said regarding ldpatch)

(scribe wasn’t able to capture all the things sandro said regarding ldpatch)

15:01:28 <betehess> SteveS, with ISSUE-100,  `/schema:performerIn[/schema:url = <http://conferences.ted.com/TED2009/>]` would become `schema:performerIn[schema:url = <http://conferences.ted.com/TED2009/>]`

Alexandre Bertails: SteveS, with ISSUE-100, `/schema:performerIn[/schema:url = <http://conferences.ted.com/TED2009/>]` would become `schema:performerIn[schema:url = <http://conferences.ted.com/TED2009/>]`

15:01:36 <betehess> this is *not* SPARQL anyway

Alexandre Bertails: this is *not* SPARQL anyway

15:03:11 <bblfish> I kind of agree with Arnaud and Sandro, it's better to be close to Turtle

Henry Story: I kind of agree with Arnaud and Sandro, it's better to be close to Turtle

15:03:23 <TallTed> +1 where it's easy to align grammars, definitely better practice to do so.

Ted Thibodeau: +1 where it's easy to align grammars, definitely better practice to do so.

15:03:23 <bblfish> due to getting friends everywhere

Henry Story: due to getting friends everywhere

15:03:23 <betehess> *how* would you explain `schema:performerIn[schema:url = <http://conferences.ted.com/TED2009/>]` then?

Alexandre Bertails: *how* would you explain `schema:performerIn[schema:url = <http://conferences.ted.com/TED2009/>]` then?

15:03:26 <Zakim> -nmihindu

Zakim IRC Bot: -nmihindu

15:03:27 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

15:03:29 <SteveS> Arnaud: meeting adjourned

Arnaud Le Hors: meeting adjourned

15:03:30 <Zakim> -Alexandre

Zakim IRC Bot: -Alexandre

15:03:31 <Zakim> -TallTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -TallTed

15:03:33 <Zakim> -Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud

15:03:33 <Zakim> -SteveS

Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveS

15:03:34 <Zakim> -Roger

Zakim IRC Bot: -Roger

15:03:36 <Zakim> -ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP

15:03:38 <Zakim> -bblfish_

Zakim IRC Bot: -bblfish_

15:03:40 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ashok_Malhotra

15:03:40 <Zakim> -deiu

Zakim IRC Bot: -deiu

15:03:41 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended

15:03:41 <Zakim> Attendees were Arnaud, SteveS, deiu, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed, bblfish_, Roger, Alexandre, Sandro, ericP, nmihindu

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Arnaud, SteveS, deiu, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed, bblfish_, Roger, Alexandre, Sandro, ericP, nmihindu

<SteveS> present: Arnaud, SteveS, deiu, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed, bblfish, Roger, Alexandre, Sandro, ericP, nmihindu
15:05:48 <SteveS> deiu, I think the thread that might help is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2014Sep/0018.html

deiu, I think the thread that might help is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2014Sep/0018.html

15:06:05 <deiu> thanks!

Andrei Sambra: thanks!

15:06:44 <SteveS> or a reply to that, of course post the question if this doesn’t help

or a reply to that, of course post the question if this doesn’t help

15:07:40 <deiu> I don't think that thread was reflected in the primer though

Andrei Sambra: I don't think that thread was reflected in the primer though

15:13:23 <SteveS> deiu, you may want to send something to roger and nminindu about that, seems like they are actively updating it and be good to add

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

deiu, you may want to send something to roger and nminindu about that, seems like they are actively updating it and be good to add

15:13:53 <deiu> will do, thanks SteveS

Andrei Sambra: will do, thanks SteveS



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