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Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 16 April 2014

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/F2F5#Day_2_-_Wednesday_April_16
Present
Alexandre Bertails, Andrei Sambra, Arnaud Le Hors, Ashok Malhotra, Bart van Leeuwen, Cody Burleson, John Arwe, Miguel Aragón, Nandana Mihindukulasooriya, Roger Menday, Sandro Hawke, Sergio Fernández, Steve Speicher, Ted Thibodeau
Chair
Arnaud Le Hors
Scribe
Steve Speicher, Roger Menday
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. In order to have executable tests in the next few weeks, LDP tests will be submitted on github in Java, as TestNG (or JUnit) + REST-assured tests, with metadata that can be extracted to form a decent human-readable summary of the tests. link
Topics
13:02:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/16-ldp-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/16-ldp-irc

13:02:41 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public

13:02:43 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be LDP

13:02:44 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see DATA_LDPWG()8:30AM scheduled to start 32 minutes ago

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see DATA_LDPWG()8:30AM scheduled to start 32 minutes ago

13:02:44 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
13:02:44 <trackbot> Date: 16 April 2014
13:03:32 <Arnaud> we're using the normal access code today: LDPWG

Arnaud Le Hors: we're using the normal access code today: LDPWG

13:04:10 <nmihindu> Zakim, what is the conference code?

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Zakim, what is the conference code?

13:04:10 <Zakim> the conference code is 53794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), nmihindu

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 53794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), nmihindu

13:05:06 <Zakim> DATA_LDPWG()8:30AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: DATA_LDPWG()8:30AM has now started

13:05:13 <Zakim> +??P45

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P45

13:05:23 <nmihindu> Zakim, ??P45 is me

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Zakim, ??P45 is me

13:05:25 <Zakim> +nmihindu; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +nmihindu; got it

13:06:38 <deiu> Zakim, room for 10 people for 600 minutes?

Andrei Sambra: Zakim, room for 10 people for 600 minutes?

13:06:40 <Zakim> ok, deiu; conference Team_(ldp)13:06Z scheduled with code 26631 (CONF1) for 600 minutes until 2306Z

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, deiu; conference Team_(ldp)13:06Z scheduled with code 26631 (CONF1) for 600 minutes until 2306Z

13:07:39 <Zakim> + +1.617.715.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.617.715.aaaa

13:07:45 <Arnaud> we're on

Arnaud Le Hors: we're on

13:07:51 <Arnaud> zakim, who's here?

Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, who's here?

13:07:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see nmihindu, +1.617.715.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see nmihindu, +1.617.715.aaaa

13:07:54 <Zakim> On IRC I see roger, deiu, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmihindu, BartvanLeeuwen, SteveS, Arnaud, jmvanel, stevebattle1112, sergio, codyburleson, sandro, trackbot, Yves, ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see roger, deiu, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmihindu, BartvanLeeuwen, SteveS, Arnaud, jmvanel, stevebattle1112, sergio, codyburleson, sandro, trackbot, Yves, ericP

13:08:53 <nmihindu> Zakim, who is talking?

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Zakim, who is talking?

13:09:05 <Zakim> nmihindu, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.617.715.aaaa (91%)

Zakim IRC Bot: nmihindu, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.617.715.aaaa (91%)

13:09:18 <codyburleson> Is the phone code 26631 ? I'm on, but it is siilent.

Cody Burleson: Is the phone code 26631 ? I'm on, but it is siilent.

13:09:39 <nmihindu> codyburleson, it is the regular one

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: codyburleson, it is the regular one

13:09:49 <deiu> codyburleson: yes, use the regular one please

Cody Burleson: yes, use the regular one please [ Scribe Assist by Andrei Sambra ]

13:09:52 <codyburleson> OK

Cody Burleson: OK

13:09:57 <nmihindu> codyburleson, 53794

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: codyburleson, 53794

13:10:08 <SteveS> Scribe: SteveS

(Scribe set to Steve Speicher)

<SteveS> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/F2F5#Day_2_-_Wednesday_April_16
<SteveS> chair: Arnaud
<SteveS> Present: betehess, deiu, arnaud, ashok, bart, cody, johnarwe, MiguelAraCo, nmihindu, roger, sandro, sergio, steves, tallted
13:11:01 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

13:11:08 <codyburleson> Zakim, IPcaller is me.

Cody Burleson: Zakim, IPcaller is me.

13:11:09 <Zakim> +codyburleson; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +codyburleson; got it

<SteveS> topic: Today's agenda

1. Today's agenda

13:11:10 <SteveS> reviewing agenda for the day: primer, test suite, LDP.next, access control, patch

reviewing agenda for the day: primer, test suite, LDP.next, access control, patch

13:11:18 <SteveS> …can talk more about paging

…can talk more about paging

13:11:54 <SteveS> Topic: Primer

2. Primer

13:12:06 <Zakim> -codyburleson

Zakim IRC Bot: -codyburleson

13:12:13 <SteveS> Latest draft: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/tip/ldp-primer/ldp-primer.html

Latest draft: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/tip/ldp-primer/ldp-primer.html

13:12:48 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

13:12:55 <SteveS> Not a required deliverable but WG felt strongly about providing it

Not a required deliverable but WG felt strongly about providing it

13:12:57 <codyburleson> Xakim, IPcaller is me.

Cody Burleson: Xakim, IPcaller is me.

13:13:06 <codyburleson> Zakim, IPcaller is me.

Cody Burleson: Zakim, IPcaller is me.

13:13:06 <Zakim> +codyburleson; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +codyburleson; got it

13:13:19 <SteveS> …haven’t published yet and need to do that.

…haven’t published yet and need to do that.

13:13:42 <codyburleson> Zakim, who is talking?

Cody Burleson: Zakim, who is talking?

13:13:52 <SteveS> roger: nmihindu and I talked about this this morning

Roger Menday: nmihindu and I talked about this this morning

13:13:53 <Zakim> codyburleson, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds

Zakim IRC Bot: codyburleson, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds

13:14:04 <SteveS> codyburleson, roger is talking now

codyburleson, roger is talking now

13:14:18 <Ashok> Roger is updating us on the state of the primer

Ashok Malhotra: Roger is updating us on the state of the primer

13:14:41 <SteveS> roger: need to bring a few more things to be current with the spec, including paging stuff

Roger Menday: need to bring a few more things to be current with the spec, including paging stuff

13:15:13 <SteveS> …thiniking end of the month (April 30th) as a deliverable

…thiniking end of the month (April 30th) as a deliverable

13:15:32 <SteveS> Arnaud: would have a draft to review by April 28th?

Arnaud Le Hors: would have a draft to review by April 28th?

13:16:28 <SteveS> SteveS: what is the date for publish request?

Steve Speicher: what is the date for publish request?

13:17:39 <SteveS> Arnaud: a few weeks after April 28th

Arnaud Le Hors: a few weeks after April 28th

13:17:50 <SteveS> SteveS: when do we need to have spec updated for CR publication?

Steve Speicher: when do we need to have spec updated for CR publication?

13:18:15 <SteveS> Arnaud: a few weeks, awaiting responses from commenters and go through the review from the directors

Arnaud Le Hors: a few weeks, awaiting responses from commenters and go through the review from the directors

13:18:59 <nmihindu> Aranud, it would be a good to have a link from the spec.

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Aranud, it would be a good to have a link from the spec.

13:19:19 <SteveS> Arnaud: fine if CR draft has links to editor’s draft

Arnaud Le Hors: fine if CR draft has links to editor’s draft

13:20:15 <nmihindu> we can always update the primer afterwards, right ? It will be a pity to loose a link from the spec.

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: we can always update the primer afterwards, right ? It will be a pity to loose a link from the spec.

13:20:24 <SteveS> Arnaud: looking for people to assigned as reviewer

Arnaud Le Hors: looking for people to assigned as reviewer

13:21:12 <SteveS> SteveS: will review primer

Steve Speicher: will review primer

13:21:45 <SteveS> Arnaud: so Ashok and SteveS will be assigned reviewers

Arnaud Le Hors: so Ashok and SteveS will be assigned reviewers

13:22:14 <SteveS> …just primer editors will have a draft ready for review by April 28th

…just primer editors will have a draft ready for review by April 28th

13:22:43 <nmihindu> +1 for removing paging for the moment

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: +1 for removing paging for the moment

13:22:46 <SteveS> Arnaud: should we remove paging from primer?

Arnaud Le Hors: should we remove paging from primer?

13:23:45 <SteveS> TallTed: think most people will start with primer so would be good to touch on it

Ted Thibodeau: think most people will start with primer so would be good to touch on it

13:24:06 <SteveS> SteveS: suggests we republish once we have ldp-primer further along

Steve Speicher: suggests we republish once we have ldp-primer further along

13:24:49 <SteveS> Arnaud: thinks we should wait to update primer when ldp-paging is available

Arnaud Le Hors: thinks we should wait to update primer when ldp-paging is available

13:25:33 <SteveS> Ashok: we could use primer to flush out some design/feedback on paging

Ashok Malhotra: we could use primer to flush out some design/feedback on paging

13:25:45 <SteveS> SteveS: suggests we use the current draft of ldp-primer spec

Steve Speicher: suggests we use the current draft of ldp-primer spec

13:26:31 <deiu> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/tip/ldp-primer/ldp-primer.html

Andrei Sambra: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/tip/ldp-primer/ldp-primer.html

13:26:48 <SteveS> roger: wanted to float something by the WG with approach to pictures and diagrams

Roger Menday: wanted to float something by the WG with approach to pictures and diagrams

13:27:09 <Zakim> +??P53

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P53

13:27:10 <SteveS> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ia8NYiskrmA0aWtJNumtp-bcaQ3vU9ILGVS4bVU6mIs/edit#heading=h.4q8pyvowg0rj

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ia8NYiskrmA0aWtJNumtp-bcaQ3vU9ILGVS4bVU6mIs/edit#heading=h.4q8pyvowg0rj

13:27:15 <roger> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1YkG0psUrOB5btd3ccTpTeT8QbdFcSV9zqqpeOBbuj1E/edit?usp=sharing

Roger Menday: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1YkG0psUrOB5btd3ccTpTeT8QbdFcSV9zqqpeOBbuj1E/edit?usp=sharing

13:27:22 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ??P53 is me

Bart van Leeuwen: Zakim, ??P53 is me

13:27:22 <Zakim> +BartvanLeeuwen; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +BartvanLeeuwen; got it

13:28:46 <SteveS> roger: (explaining the charts he shared from link above)

Roger Menday: (explaining the charts he shared from link above)

13:31:09 <SteveS> Arnaud: concerned about introducing new terminology, like specific/non-specific

Arnaud Le Hors: concerned about introducing new terminology, like specific/non-specific

13:32:05 <SteveS> roger: not tied to it but wanted a way to describe it

Roger Menday: not tied to it but wanted a way to describe it

13:33:48 <SteveS> yes, slide 3

yes, slide 3

13:33:53 <nmihindu> BartvanLeeuwen, slide 3

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: BartvanLeeuwen, slide 3

13:35:05 <SteveS> Ashok: would be good to label / understand the container

Ashok Malhotra: would be good to label / understand the container

13:35:19 <BartvanLeeuwen> nmihindu, thx

Bart van Leeuwen: nmihindu, thx

13:35:40 <nmihindu> Generic / vanilla LDP  vs Application / domain specific

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Generic / vanilla LDP vs Application / domain specific

13:36:08 <SteveS> roger: needed term for application/domain specific stuff

Roger Menday: needed term for application/domain specific stuff

13:36:26 <SteveS> sergio, ok

sergio, ok

13:37:23 <SteveS> sandro: not sure what to use, perhaps degree of focus.  In SPARQL is concise bounded description

Sandro Hawke: not sure what to use, perhaps degree of focus. In SPARQL is concise bounded description

13:38:26 <SteveS> Arnaud: wonder if trying to define “where the triples live” or not?

Arnaud Le Hors: wonder if trying to define “where the triples live” or not?

13:39:07 <SteveS> sandro: understand it as when you build an LDP application, you need to make some descisions on scope of resources, types of containers, etc

Sandro Hawke: understand it as when you build an LDP application, you need to make some descisions on scope of resources, types of containers, etc

13:39:44 <SteveS> roger: primer focuses on bug tracker example and demonstrates various kinds of resources

Roger Menday: primer focuses on bug tracker example and demonstrates various kinds of resources

13:40:14 <SteveS> …then we’ll have some “blob” sample (generic/vanilla) as well

…then we’ll have some “blob” sample (generic/vanilla) as well

13:41:40 <SteveS> sandro: thinks photo album would be good example of binary type resources and data about them, bug tracking more focused on the RDF Source end

Sandro Hawke: thinks photo album would be good example of binary type resources and data about them, bug tracking more focused on the RDF Source end

13:41:55 <SteveS> roger: current bug tracker has binary resources via attachments

Roger Menday: current bug tracker has binary resources via attachments

13:42:17 <SteveS> slide 4

slide 4

13:43:36 <nmihindu> Sandro, we were kind of inspired by rww.io

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Sandro, we were kind of inspired by rww.io

13:45:04 <SteveS> sandro: thinks the file system example is a bit dangerous example of LDP

Sandro Hawke: thinks the file system example is a bit dangerous example of LDP

13:45:23 <SteveS> SteveS: it is trying to be an example of vanilla servers

Steve Speicher: it is trying to be an example of vanilla servers

13:46:48 <nmihindu> TallTed, we can change the filesystem example to a photo manager. It fits with the flow of the example that we have now.

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: TallTed, we can change the filesystem example to a photo manager. It fits with the flow of the example that we have now.

13:47:18 <SteveS> TallTed: currnet examples feel like they aren’t hitting the mark, thinks the photo album is a good example/case…where there is data about photos, people, different views of these photos (albums)

Ted Thibodeau: currnet examples feel like they aren’t hitting the mark, thinks the photo album is a good example/case…where there is data about photos, people, different views of these photos (albums)

13:48:24 <SteveS> nmihindu: it would be easy enough to move the file system to the photo album one.  we should have a simple example with basic container

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: it would be easy enough to move the file system to the photo album one. we should have a simple example with basic container

13:49:01 <SteveS> Ashok: wondered where the RDF should be with this

Ashok Malhotra: wondered where the RDF should be with this

13:49:19 <SteveS> roger: hoping to just have a high-level picture/description

Roger Menday: hoping to just have a high-level picture/description

13:50:21 <nmihindu> nmihindu: but may be it is good to separate the basic concepts (Basic Container) from the advanced concept of Direct and Indirect containers and the results of posting to them into two separate examples

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: but may be it is good to separate the basic concepts (Basic Container) from the advanced concept of Direct and Indirect containers and the results of posting to them into two separate examples [ Scribe Assist by Nandana Mihindukulasooriya ]

13:51:34 <SteveS> sandro: would be good to help to get the understanding of hierarchies may not match file system examples

Sandro Hawke: would be good to help to get the understanding of hierarchies may not match file system examples

13:52:49 <SteveS> roger: would be hard to switch to photo album example

Roger Menday: would be hard to switch to photo album example

13:52:50 <nmihindu> Sandro, if necessary we can point the BP regarding hierarchical URL in the primer not to make any confusion

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Sandro, if necessary we can point the BP regarding hierarchical URL in the primer not to make any confusion

13:52:53 <SteveS> slide 5

slide 5

13:53:43 <SteveS> Arnaud: sounds pretty ambitous based current state by 28th

Arnaud Le Hors: sounds pretty ambitous based current state by 28th

13:53:55 <SteveS> roger: you can do anything if you put your mind to it

Roger Menday: you can do anything if you put your mind to it

13:54:40 <SteveS> roger: The pictures need a little work but are to add into in support of it

Roger Menday: The pictures need a little work but are to add into in support of it

13:55:37 <SteveS> Arnaud: think the primer should be how you use the spec to handle some scenarios, find what it is structured that way and helpful

Arnaud Le Hors: think the primer should be how you use the spec to handle some scenarios, find what it is structured that way and helpful

13:56:53 <nmihindu> Arnaud, we have most of the stuff you mentioned in the primer right now :)

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Arnaud, we have most of the stuff you mentioned in the primer right now :)

14:01:16 <SteveS> sandro: be good to highlight the value of using same LDP client / sdk to talk to multiple “photo sharing” servers

Sandro Hawke: be good to highlight the value of using same LDP client / sdk to talk to multiple “photo sharing” servers

14:02:11 <SteveS> SteveS: also would be good to highlight the value of linked data, using a client to simultaneously put to various servers and leverage the linked concepts

Steve Speicher: also would be good to highlight the value of linked data, using a client to simultaneously put to various servers and leverage the linked concepts

14:03:00 <SteveS> BartvanLeeuwen, roger is moving back and forther to the whiteboard

BartvanLeeuwen, roger is moving back and forth to the whiteboard

14:03:08 <BartvanLeeuwen> that explains :)

Bart van Leeuwen: that explains :)

14:03:10 <SteveS> s/forther/forth/
14:03:53 <SteveS> Arnaud: worried about setting bar pretty high with these high level visualizations

Arnaud Le Hors: worried about setting bar pretty high with these high level visualizations

14:06:29 <nmihindu> Arnaud, we can complete the primer first according to the flow we have now and may be publish the first draft and then aim the improvements of roger that you think would take time for a second draft

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Arnaud, we can complete the primer first according to the flow we have now and may be publish the first draft and then aim the improvements of roger that you think would take time for a second draft

14:06:50 <SteveS> roger: think that getting techy details is good but was looking to get something a bit more to highlight why they should want to use it

Roger Menday: think that getting techy details is good but was looking to get something a bit more to highlight why they should want to use it

14:07:27 <SteveS> Ashok: if we could add a bit more for the REST/JSON audience to understand why they should use it

Ashok Malhotra: if we could add a bit more for the REST/JSON audience to understand why they should use it

14:08:49 <SteveS> roger: current primer has turtle and json switch

Roger Menday: current primer has turtle and json switch

14:11:48 <SteveS> (general discussion about JSON vs JSON-LD vs Turtle vs RDF in general within the primer, and a little bit spec)

(general discussion about JSON vs JSON-LD vs Turtle vs RDF in general within the primer, and a little bit spec)

14:12:22 <Arnaud> zakim, mute nmihindu

Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, mute nmihindu

14:12:22 <Zakim> nmihindu should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: nmihindu should now be muted

14:12:27 <TallTed> Zakim, who's speaking?

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's speaking?

14:12:37 <Zakim> TallTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: codyburleson (100%), +1.617.715.aaaa (58%)

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: codyburleson (100%), +1.617.715.aaaa (58%)

14:12:42 <TallTed> Zakim, mute codyburleson

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute codyburleson

14:12:42 <Zakim> codyburleson should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: codyburleson should now be muted

14:12:56 <SteveS> betehess: sees a strong push/need for JSON-LD over Turtle

Alexandre Bertails: sees a strong push/need for JSON-LD over Turtle

14:13:37 <deiu> Zakim, aaaa is MIT-F2F-group

Andrei Sambra: Zakim, aaaa is MIT-F2F-group

14:13:37 <Zakim> +MIT-F2F-group; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MIT-F2F-group; got it

14:13:38 <sergio> me want to ask if the preferable way to connect is hangout or the regular phone bridge

Sergio Fernández: me want to ask if the preferable way to connect is hangout or the regular phone bridge

14:14:01 <SteveS> TallTed: thinks that turtle has the broadest appeal for things like the primer

Ted Thibodeau: thinks that turtle has the broadest appeal for things like the primer

14:15:52 <SteveS> sandro: would be interested in having JSON-LD a MUST as well, along with Turtle

Sandro Hawke: would be interested in having JSON-LD a MUST as well, along with Turtle

14:16:04 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1 on web programmers know json

Bart van Leeuwen: +1 on web programmers know json

14:16:06 <roger> +1 for JSON-LD

Roger Menday: +1 for JSON-LD

14:16:35 <SteveS> betehess: there are no native browser frameworks based on turtle

Alexandre Bertails: there are no native browser frameworks based on turtle

14:17:06 <nmihindu> sergio, I am connected with both. I am not sure whether they hear the voice from the hangout if you speak through it.

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: sergio, I am connected with both. I am not sure whether they hear the voice from the hangout if you speak through it.

14:17:24 <codyburleson> "Nobody uses RDF?" Does he mean Turtle?

Cody Burleson: "Nobody uses RDF?" Does he mean Turtle?

14:17:31 <Arnaud> no

Arnaud Le Hors: no

14:17:42 <SteveS> sergio, use bridge for audio and hangout for video

sergio, use bridge for audio and hangout for video

14:18:39 <Zakim> + +43.660.274.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +43.660.274.aabb

14:18:47 <TallTed> Zakim, MIT-F2F-group has Arnaud, Ashok, betehess, JohnArwe, roger, sandro, SteveS, TallTed, deiu

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, MIT-F2F-group has Arnaud, Ashok, betehess, JohnArwe, roger, sandro, SteveS, TallTed, deiu

14:18:47 <Zakim> +Arnaud, Ashok, betehess, JohnArwe, roger, sandro, SteveS, TallTed, deiu; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud, Ashok, betehess, JohnArwe, roger, sandro, SteveS, TallTed, deiu; got it

14:18:52 <sergio> Zakim, +43.660.274.aabb is me

Sergio Fernández: Zakim, +43.660.274.aabb is me

14:18:52 <Zakim> +sergio; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +sergio; got it

14:19:09 <SteveS> sandro: explains desire to have minimal “sales pitch” up front but want just to jump in and quickly learn about it

Sandro Hawke: explains desire to have minimal “sales pitch” up front but want just to jump in and quickly learn about it

14:22:34 <SteveS> roger: thinks it would to describe the different container types and how they are used, for building up the various bug tracker feature or scenarios

Roger Menday: thinks it would to describe the different container types and how they are used, for building up the various bug tracker feature or scenarios

14:23:52 <codyburleson> Sandro - do you think we could mute the Google Talk so that we can use only the Conference bridge for audio? Or would that mess somebody up?

Cody Burleson: Sandro - do you think we could mute the Google Talk so that we can use only the Conference bridge for audio? Or would that mess somebody up?

14:24:19 <codyburleson> (Getting double audio; it's a little weird. Not sure which to kill.)

Cody Burleson: (Getting double audio; it's a little weird. Not sure which to kill.)

14:24:42 <codyburleson> Thanks!

Cody Burleson: Thanks!

14:26:10 <SteveS> Arnaud: explains that he hasn’t had problem presenting the concepts building up on types of containers using networth example

Arnaud Le Hors: explains that he hasn’t had problem presenting the concepts building up on types of containers using networth example

14:26:37 <SteveS> …putting fork in primer discussion

…putting fork in primer discussion

14:26:45 <sandro> issue: JSON instead of (in addition to?) Turtle

ISSUE: JSON instead of (in addition to?) Turtle

14:26:45 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-97 - Json instead of (in addition to?) turtle.  Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/97/edit>.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ISSUE-97 - Json instead of (in addition to?) turtle. Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/97/edit>.

14:29:50 <nmihindu> q+

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: q+

14:30:04 <nmihindu> Zakim, unmute me

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Zakim, unmute me

14:30:04 <Zakim> nmihindu should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: nmihindu should no longer be muted

14:30:10 <Arnaud> ack nmihindu

Arnaud Le Hors: ack nmihindu

14:30:39 <SteveS> nmihindu: do it with one sample scenario, if it fits better then we’ll do 2 examples

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: do it with one sample scenario, if it fits better then we’ll do 2 examples

14:31:10 <SteveS> SteveS: would be good to have them align with something we have in http://www.w3.org/TR/ldp-ucr/#user-stories

Steve Speicher: would be good to have them align with something we have in http://www.w3.org/TR/ldp-ucr/#user-stories

14:31:15 <nmihindu> Zakim, mute me

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Zakim, mute me

14:31:15 <Zakim> nmihindu should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: nmihindu should now be muted

14:31:21 <SteveS> Arnaud: breaking for 15 minutes, back at 10:45

Arnaud Le Hors: breaking for 15 minutes, back at 10:45

14:31:32 <Zakim> -sergio

Zakim IRC Bot: -sergio

14:36:33 <nmihindu> SteveS, it is a bit aligned with http://www.w3.org/TR/ldp-ucr/#dfn-system-and-software-development-tool-integration but we will see if we can align it more with some integration aspects, different servers, discovering links etc. that we discussed during this session.

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: SteveS, it is a bit aligned with http://www.w3.org/TR/ldp-ucr/#dfn-system-and-software-development-tool-integration but we will see if we can align it more with some integration aspects, different servers, discovering links etc. that we discussed during this session.

14:38:08 <SteveS> nmihindu, right…just thinking the file system may not be covered but photo sharing is, for example

nmihindu, right…just thinking the file system may not be covered but photo sharing is, for example

14:44:46 <Zakim> +sergio

(No events recorded for 6 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: +sergio

14:49:03 <sergio> q+

Sergio Fernández: q+

14:49:47 <Arnaud> ack sergio

Arnaud Le Hors: ack sergio

14:51:24 <SteveS> follow on discussion after break on json-ld

follow on discussion after break on json-ld

14:52:32 <sandro> Possible answer: Best Practice is servers read/write JSON-LD (in addition to Turtle).

Sandro Hawke: Possible answer: Best Practice is servers read/write JSON-LD (in addition to Turtle).

14:52:41 <betehess> stating JSON-LD instead of Turtle would send a strong message to the community

Alexandre Bertails: stating JSON-LD instead of Turtle would send a strong message to the community

14:52:45 <SteveS> Topic: Test suite

3. Test suite

14:53:54 <deiu> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/b3683634c29f/Test%20Cases/LDP%20Test%20Cases.html

Andrei Sambra: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/b3683634c29f/Test%20Cases/LDP%20Test%20Cases.html

14:56:31 <SteveS> Arnaud: reviewing state of current test suite, which has detailed RDF descriptions of test cases but no executable harness exists

Arnaud Le Hors: reviewing state of current test suite, which has detailed RDF descriptions of test cases but no executable harness exists

14:57:04 <SteveS> What is the general approach we are going to take? leveraging what Raul has done

What is the general approach we are going to take? leveraging what Raul has done

14:58:50 <betehess> SteveS: let me explain what my team has done

Steve Speicher: let me explain what my team has done [ Scribe Assist by Alexandre Bertails ]

14:59:10 <betehess> ... we have some JUnit tests

Alexandre Bertails: ... we have some JUnit tests

14:59:20 <sergio> q+

Sergio Fernández: q+

14:59:34 <betehess> ... did exploration of few frameworks

Alexandre Bertails: ... did exploration of few frameworks

14:59:38 <betehess> ... you can do HTTP calls

Alexandre Bertails: ... you can do HTTP calls

14:59:47 <betehess> ... the test case is one line or two

Alexandre Bertails: ... the test case is one line or two

15:00:01 <betehess> ... the extension of junit is test-ng

Alexandre Bertails: ... the extension of junit is test-ng

15:00:09 <betehess> ... you can tag your tests

Alexandre Bertails: ... you can tag your tests

15:00:15 <betehess> ... eg. MUST, etc.

Alexandre Bertails: ... eg. MUST, etc.

15:00:30 <betehess> ... and you can join tests together eg. by type or other features

Alexandre Bertails: ... and you can join tests together eg. by type or other features

15:00:39 <betehess> ... and you get some nice reports

Alexandre Bertails: ... and you get some nice reports

15:00:51 <betehess> ... we also put the test in a webapp

Alexandre Bertails: ... we also put the test in a webapp

15:00:58 <betehess> ... so that you can drive the parameters

Alexandre Bertails: ... so that you can drive the parameters

15:01:03 <betehess> ... starting with a URL

Alexandre Bertails: ... starting with a URL

15:01:31 <betehess> ... we made decent progress for Basic and Direct Containers

Alexandre Bertails: ... we made decent progress for Basic and Direct Containers

15:01:34 <betehess> ... each test is linked to the spec

Alexandre Bertails: ... each test is linked to the spec

15:01:43 <betehess> ... so we know from the report if something is wrong

Alexandre Bertails: ... so we know from the report if something is wrong

15:01:54 <betehess> ... currently the doc is at IBM Source Code Repository

Alexandre Bertails: ... currently the doc is at IBM Source Code Repository

15:02:06 <betehess> ... may be moved to something like github

Alexandre Bertails: ... may be moved to something like github

15:02:31 <betehess> ... one concern was to see how applicable it is to LDP and understand the spec

Alexandre Bertails: ... one concern was to see how applicable it is to LDP and understand the spec

15:02:41 <betehess> ... and how people could contribute tests

Alexandre Bertails: ... and how people could contribute tests

15:03:08 <betehess> Ashok: are you using OWL tests?

Ashok Malhotra: are you using raul's tests? [ Scribe Assist by Alexandre Bertails ]

15:03:34 <betehess> s/OWL/raul's/
15:03:34 <deiu> s/OWL/Raul's
15:03:42 <betehess> SteveS: no

Steve Speicher: no [ Scribe Assist by Alexandre Bertails ]

15:04:14 <betehess> Arnaud: he uses rdfa to describe and extract the tests

Arnaud Le Hors: he uses rdfa to describe and extract the tests [ Scribe Assist by Alexandre Bertails ]

15:04:21 <betehess> ... looks a bit hard to manage/extend

Alexandre Bertails: ... looks a bit hard to manage/extend

15:04:33 <SteveS> 	@Test(groups = { MAY, CRUD }, dataProvider = MediaTypeDataProvider.NAME, dataProviderClass = MediaTypeDataProvider.class)

@Test(groups = { MAY, CRUD }, dataProvider = MediaTypeDataProvider.NAME, dataProviderClass = MediaTypeDataProvider.class)

15:04:34 <SteveS> 	public void testCreateResourceDc(String mediaType)

public void testCreateResourceDc(String mediaType)

15:04:36 <SteveS> 			throws URISyntaxException {

throws URISyntaxException {

15:04:37 <SteveS> 		Model model = postContent();

Model model = postContent();

15:04:39 <SteveS> 		Response postResponse = RestAssured.given().contentType(mediaType)

Response postResponse = RestAssured.given().contentType(mediaType)

15:04:40 <SteveS> 				.body(model, new RdfObjectMapper()).expect()

.body(model, new RdfObjectMapper()).expect()

15:04:42 <SteveS> 				.statusCode(HttpStatus.SC_CREATED).when()

.statusCode(HttpStatus.SC_CREATED).when()

15:04:43 <SteveS> 				.post(new URI(directContainer));

.post(new URI(directContainer));

15:04:45 <SteveS> 		String location = postResponse.getHeader(LOCATION);

String location = postResponse.getHeader(LOCATION);

15:04:46 <SteveS> 		assertNotNull(location, MSG_LOC_NOTFOUND);

assertNotNull(location, MSG_LOC_NOTFOUND);

15:04:48 <SteveS> 		// Test it's a valid URI. Throws a URISyntaxException if not.

// Test it's a valid URI. Throws a URISyntaxException if not.

15:04:49 <SteveS> 		new URI(location);

new URI(location);

15:04:51 <SteveS> 		created.add(location);

created.add(location);

15:04:52 <SteveS>

15:04:53 <SteveS> 		// Delete the resource to clean up.

// Delete the resource to clean up.

15:04:54 <SteveS> 		RestAssured.expect().statusCode(HttpStatus.SC_NO_CONTENT).when().delete(new URI(location));

RestAssured.expect().statusCode(HttpStatus.SC_NO_CONTENT).when().delete(new URI(location));

15:04:55 <SteveS> 	}

}

15:05:46 <betehess> q+

Alexandre Bertails: q+

15:07:03 <Arnaud> ack sergio

Arnaud Le Hors: ack sergio

15:07:07 <betehess> q-

Alexandre Bertails: q-

15:08:19 <sandro> q+

Sandro Hawke: q+

15:08:19 <SteveS> sergio: problem with doing automated, is that there are places where it uses natural language

Sergio Fernández: problem with doing automated, is that there are places where it uses natural language

15:08:20 <sergio> https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?p=marmotta.git;a=blob;f=platform/marmotta-ldp/src/test/java/org/apache/marmotta/platform/ldp/webservices/LdpWebServiceTest.java;h=8cd5c69e894d715c51081cd0f04f5ad7b5d9b9a5;hb=f5b5cf0c21ab3ce0aaea1e816658e0aa2d59bb86#l82

Sergio Fernández: https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?p=marmotta.git;a=blob;f=platform/marmotta-ldp/src/test/java/org/apache/marmotta/platform/ldp/webservices/LdpWebServiceTest.java;h=8cd5c69e894d715c51081cd0f04f5ad7b5d9b9a5;hb=f5b5cf0c21ab3ce0aaea1e816658e0aa2d59bb86#l82

15:08:33 <sergio> https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?p=marmotta.git;a=blob;f=platform/marmotta-ldp/src/test/java/org/apache/marmotta/platform/ldp/testsuite/LdpTestCasesRunner.java;h=31fee36f06d1369b22c7f9f7f6908608b1316770;hb=f5b5cf0c21ab3ce0aaea1e816658e0aa2d59bb86#l49

Sergio Fernández: https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?p=marmotta.git;a=blob;f=platform/marmotta-ldp/src/test/java/org/apache/marmotta/platform/ldp/testsuite/LdpTestCasesRunner.java;h=31fee36f06d1369b22c7f9f7f6908608b1316770;hb=f5b5cf0c21ab3ce0aaea1e816658e0aa2d59bb86#l49

15:09:52 <nmihindu> q+

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: q+

15:10:10 <Arnaud> ack sandro

Arnaud Le Hors: ack sandro

15:11:21 <SteveS> sandro: would be good to have a test dispenser to make servers provide

Sandro Hawke: would be good to have a test dispenser to make servers provide

15:13:58 <betehess> q+

Alexandre Bertails: q+

15:14:18 <nmihindu> Zakim, unmute me

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Zakim, unmute me

15:14:18 <Zakim> nmihindu should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: nmihindu should no longer be muted

15:14:18 <Arnaud> ack nmihindu

Arnaud Le Hors: ack nmihindu

15:14:29 <SteveS> it could just be a sandbox for creating containers and stuff for testing but don’t need to iterate over it

it could just be a sandbox for creating containers and stuff for testing but don’t need to iterate over it

15:15:51 <SteveS> nmihindu, audio kept breaking up at end of each word

nmihindu, audio kept breaking up at end of each word

15:15:52 <nmihindu> Zakim, mute me

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Zakim, mute me

15:15:52 <Zakim> nmihindu should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: nmihindu should now be muted

15:16:42 <nmihindu> the reason that Raul didn't put precondition in to machine readable format was because he thought they won't be useful as machine readable data

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: the reason that Raul didn't put precondition in to machine readable format was because he thought they won't be useful as machine readable data

15:17:00 <Arnaud> ack betehess

Arnaud Le Hors: ack betehess

15:17:06 <nmihindu> because in a previous F2F we decided that we will need a back door to the server to check those preconditions

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: because in a previous F2F we decided that we will need a back door to the server to check those preconditions

15:17:47 <nmihindu> but if it is useful to have them as machine-readble data to do test automation, probably he can put them in a machine readable manner

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: but if it is useful to have them as machine-readble data to do test automation, probably he can put them in a machine readable manner

15:17:49 <sergio> fine for me, it just means some effort to implement the initial set of preconditions (70% implemented)

Sergio Fernández: fine for me, it just means some effort to implement the initial set of preconditions (70% implemented)

15:18:06 <SteveS> betehess: by validator do we mean web only or run locally?

Alexandre Bertails: by validator do we mean web only or run locally?

15:18:54 <SteveS> sandro: it would be both, test things published on web or on local machine

Sandro Hawke: it would be both, test things published on web or on local machine

15:19:39 <SteveS> betehess: it would be good to focus on executable

Alexandre Bertails: it would be good to focus on executable

15:21:47 <deiu> q+

Andrei Sambra: q+

15:22:03 <Arnaud> ack deiu

Arnaud Le Hors: ack deiu

15:23:25 <SteveS> deiu: users will only want to see how they did against the test suite, doesn’t have to be rdf, they don’t want to see rdf

Andrei Sambra: users will only want to see how they did against the test suite, doesn’t have to be rdf, they don’t want to see rdf

15:23:44 <sergio> q+

Sergio Fernández: q+

15:23:50 <SteveS> sandro: need to get format of results to WG for impl feedback, typically done with rdf

Sandro Hawke: need to get format of results to WG for impl feedback, typically done with rdf

15:24:21 <nmihindu> Arnaud, yes.

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Arnaud, yes.

15:24:26 <Arnaud> ack sergio

Arnaud Le Hors: ack sergio

15:26:59 <nmihindu> Arnaud, there were two MUSTs for clients but they are marked as untestable.

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Arnaud, there were two MUSTs for clients but they are marked as untestable.

15:27:00 <Arnaud> issues to address: tests formats, preconditions, validator, report format

Arnaud Le Hors: issues to address: tests formats, preconditions, validator, report format

15:27:18 <Arnaud> ok, thanks

Arnaud Le Hors: ok, thanks

15:27:20 <nmihindu> such as 4.3.1.7 In the absence of special knowledge of the application or domain, LDP clients must assume that any LDP-RS can have multiple rdf:type triples with different objects.

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: such as 4.3.1.7 In the absence of special knowledge of the application or domain, LDP clients must assume that any LDP-RS can have multiple rdf:type triples with different objects.

15:28:31 <sergio> +1

Sergio Fernández: +1

15:28:38 <nmihindu> +1

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: +1

15:28:45 <SteveS> Arnaud: hearing that we are not going to be testing clients

Arnaud Le Hors: hearing that we are not going to be testing clients

15:28:51 <sandro> +1 we dont need to do anything about testing clients

Sandro Hawke: +1 we dont need to do anything about testing clients

15:30:03 <SteveS> +1

+1

15:30:17 <deiu> +1

Andrei Sambra: +1

15:33:02 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2013/TurtleReports/index.html

Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2013/TurtleReports/index.html

15:34:15 <SteveS> subTopic: Test suite report format

3.1. Test suite report format

15:34:19 <sergio> I've use earl in the past (validator.linkeddata.org is based on it), and it's the format we planned to generate reports from marmotta

Sergio Fernández: I've use earl in the past (validator.linkeddata.org is based on it), and it's the format we planned to generate reports from marmotta

15:35:12 <sergio> 14

Sergio Fernández: 14

15:35:37 <nmihindu> Sandro, Raul idea was to generate a report as in the links based on the https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/tip/Test%20Cases/LDP%20Test%20Cases.html#execution-report-description

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Sandro, Raul idea was to generate a report as in the links based on the https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/tip/Test%20Cases/LDP%20Test%20Cases.html#execution-report-description

15:36:05 <nmihindu> Sandro, as he mentioned in his email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2014Mar/0077.html

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Sandro, as he mentioned in his email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2014Mar/0077.html

15:37:29 <sergio> q+

Sergio Fernández: q+

15:37:38 <Arnaud> ack sergio

Arnaud Le Hors: ack sergio

15:38:21 <SteveS> sergio: something that could run automatically and get a report automatically.

Sergio Fernández: something that could run automatically and get a report automatically.

15:38:27 <SteveS> currently have 14 test cases

currently have 14 test cases

15:39:19 <sergio> 14 instances of td:TestCase

Sergio Fernández: 14 instances of td:TestCase

15:39:47 <SteveS> deiu: would make sense that a test case passes if all assertions pass

Andrei Sambra: would make sense that a test case passes if all assertions pass

15:41:01 <SteveS> sandro: how many tests could we expect for things indirect containers?

Sandro Hawke: how many tests could we expect for things indirect containers?

15:41:23 <sandro> sandro: A think you'd have a legitimate reason to fail should be a separate test

Sandro Hawke: A think you'd have a legitimate reason to fail should be a separate test [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:42:48 <SteveS> Arnaud: agree that we will continue to use earl

Arnaud Le Hors: agree that we will continue to use earl

15:43:27 <SteveS> Arnaud: what next do we need to figure out?

Arnaud Le Hors: what next do we need to figure out?

15:43:50 <SteveS> sandro: need to decide which test cases are approved

Sandro Hawke: need to decide which test cases are approved

15:44:17 <SteveS> sandro: explains how OWL worked to approve test cases a bit based on test feedback

Sandro Hawke: explains how OWL worked to approve test cases a bit based on test feedback

15:45:17 <nmihindu> In the initial plan of the Test Suite, the idea was anyone can contribute test cases and they will be added to the suite.

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: In the initial plan of the Test Suite, the idea was anyone can contribute test cases and they will be added to the suite.

15:45:32 <sandro> sandro: we approved tests based on folks passing, and not failing

Sandro Hawke: we approved tests based on folks passing, and not failing [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:46:08 <nmihindu> So if people from WG could add the tests for SHOULDs etc that would improve the test suite I think.

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: So if people from WG could add the tests for SHOULDs etc that would improve the test suite I think.

15:46:56 <SteveS> Arnaud: Have a number of test cases defined, if impl fails either impl is wrong or test case is wrong, will remove test case from feedback

Arnaud Le Hors: Have a number of test cases defined, if impl fails either impl is wrong or test case is wrong, will remove test case from feedback

15:47:29 <SteveS> need to set a deadline when tests are done (frozen)

need to set a deadline when tests are done (frozen)

15:47:46 <SteveS> sandro: need to freeze somewhere early in CR

Sandro Hawke: need to freeze somewhere early in CR

15:48:22 <deiu> q+

Andrei Sambra: q+

15:48:37 <Arnaud> ack deiu

Arnaud Le Hors: ack deiu

15:49:03 <SteveS> …ideally go into CR with test suite done, but if test suite changes then have to ask to rerun

…ideally go into CR with test suite done, but if test suite changes then have to ask to rerun

15:49:47 <nmihindu> Arnaud, may be it will be good to have a formal WG review for the Test Suite document like we did for other documents.

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Arnaud, may be it will be good to have a formal WG review for the Test Suite document like we did for other documents.

15:49:51 <SteveS> deiu: doesn’t think people will report failures

Andrei Sambra: doesn’t think people will report failures

15:50:04 <SteveS> sandro: people may if they don’t support a feature

Sandro Hawke: people may if they don’t support a feature

15:50:30 <SteveS> SteveS: people will just omit tests for features they haven’t implemented (not tested)

Steve Speicher: people will just omit tests for features they haven’t implemented (not tested)

15:51:20 <SteveS> Arnaud: only need to have enough feedback to show things passed and we can exit CR

Arnaud Le Hors: only need to have enough feedback to show things passed and we can exit CR

15:52:31 <SteveS> …CR is gated by exit criteria and not deadline driven, though problem of charter expiring

…CR is gated by exit criteria and not deadline driven, though problem of charter expiring

15:53:13 <SteveS> sandro: test suite needs to be ready to enter CR

Sandro Hawke: test suite needs to be ready to enter CR

15:53:29 <SteveS> …well mostly plausable and a good start, near complete

…well mostly plausable and a good start, near complete

15:53:34 <sergio> q+

Sergio Fernández: q+

15:54:55 <Arnaud> ack sergio

Arnaud Le Hors: ack sergio

15:54:55 <SteveS> sandro: would be good to feedback loop of test suite (document and execution and reports)

Sandro Hawke: would be good to feedback loop of test suite (document and execution and reports)

15:55:28 <SteveS> sergio: specs with test suite is good, we need to have it

Sergio Fernández: specs with test suite is good, we need to have it

15:56:57 <SteveS> sandro: can we have a usable test suite feedback loop in a couple weeks?

Sandro Hawke: can we have a usable test suite feedback loop in a couple weeks?

15:57:08 <sandro> .. in time for the Extension REquest

Sandro Hawke: .. in time for the Extension REquest

15:58:00 <SteveS> sandro: think we are in agreement that we need to be in CR before we ask for extension

Sandro Hawke: think we are in agreement that we need to be in CR before we ask for extension

15:58:13 <SteveS> Arnaud: agree

Arnaud Le Hors: agree

16:00:05 <SteveS> Arnaud:  is hungry and wants a break

Arnaud Le Hors: is hungry and wants a break

16:00:19 <sergio> I have to leave now

Sergio Fernández: I have to leave now

16:00:24 <SteveS> …thinks we should talk about test suite after lunch

…thinks we should talk about test suite after lunch

16:00:31 <sergio> but let me know whatever I can help

Sergio Fernández: but let me know whatever I can help

16:00:42 <Zakim> -BartvanLeeuwen

Zakim IRC Bot: -BartvanLeeuwen

16:00:52 <SteveS> sergio, thoughts on data driven vs. hand-generated tests?

sergio, thoughts on data driven vs. hand-generated tests?

16:01:01 <sergio> cool

Sergio Fernández: cool

16:01:37 <sergio> no much more know

Sergio Fernández: no much more now

16:01:44 <SteveS> sergio, would be good if we could pick a direction and a common code base

sergio, would be good if we could pick a direction and a common code base

16:01:53 <sergio> s/know/now
16:01:57 <sergio> +1

Sergio Fernández: +1

16:02:07 <codyburleson> Is this cofee break or lunch?

Cody Burleson: Is this cofee break or lunch?

16:02:23 <Zakim> -nmihindu

Zakim IRC Bot: -nmihindu

16:02:34 <SteveS> Lunch break…back around 12:45

Lunch break…back around 12:45

16:02:35 <Zakim> -sergio

Zakim IRC Bot: -sergio

16:02:39 <sergio> SteveS: or split: data driven and hand-generated test suite

Steve Speicher: or split: data driven and hand-generated test suite [ Scribe Assist by Sergio Fernández ]

16:02:40 <codyburleson> thx

Cody Burleson: thx

16:02:44 <sergio> cu tomorrow

Sergio Fernández: cu tomorrow

16:03:40 <sergio> I can push on the data driven test suite in the following two weeks

Sergio Fernández: I can push on the data driven test suite in the following two weeks

16:06:34 <Zakim> -codyburleson

Zakim IRC Bot: -codyburleson

16:17:05 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?

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Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, pointer?

16:17:05 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2014/04/16-ldp-irc#T16-17-05

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2014/04/16-ldp-irc#T16-17-05

16:41:59 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

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Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:42:09 <codyburleson> Zakim, IPcaller is me.

Cody Burleson: Zakim, IPcaller is me.

16:42:09 <Zakim> +codyburleson; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +codyburleson; got it

16:45:35 <roger> Scribe: Roger

(Scribe set to Roger Menday)

16:45:47 <roger> We are going to re-start … stand-by

We are going to re-start … stand-by

16:46:10 <roger> Topic: Test Suite continues

4. Test Suite continues

16:46:57 <roger> need to make some progress on the testing framework

need to make some progress on the testing framework

16:47:39 <roger> two approaches : code -> documentation, or documentation -> code

two approaches : code -> documentation, or documentation -> code

16:49:30 <Zakim> +??P6

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P6

16:49:46 <roger> SteveS: how useful is the automation, how often, re-runs, etc .. ?

Steve Speicher: how useful is the automation, how often, re-runs, etc .. ?

16:49:48 <nmihindu> Zakim, ??P6 is me

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Zakim, ??P6 is me

16:49:48 <Zakim> +nmihindu; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +nmihindu; got it

16:50:07 <nmihindu> Zakim, mute me

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Zakim, mute me

16:50:07 <Zakim> nmihindu should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: nmihindu should now be muted

16:50:26 <Zakim> +??P9

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9

16:50:35 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ??p9 is me

Bart van Leeuwen: Zakim, ??p9 is me

16:50:35 <Zakim> +BartvanLeeuwen; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +BartvanLeeuwen; got it

16:51:18 <nmihindu> SteveS, I think it was intentional. I think Raul meant any successful code. Probably can be restricted to the codes that we want.

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: SteveS, I think it was intentional. I think Raul meant any successful code. Probably can be restricted to the codes that we want.

16:52:05 <roger> e.g. test suite says "2xx status code" - this would need to be automated too ..

e.g. test suite says "2xx status code" - this would need to be automated too ..

16:52:47 <roger> Arnaud: how to access the coverage of the test suite .. ?

Arnaud Le Hors: how to assess the coverage of the test suite .. ?

16:53:26 <nmihindu> Arnaud, Raul covers all the MUSTs except for the ones that are untestable

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Arnaud, Raul covers all the MUSTs except for the ones that are untestable

16:53:33 <Arnaud> s/access/assess/
16:54:34 <roger> Sandro: where are the untestable MUSTs documented ?

Sandro Hawke: where are the untestable MUSTs documented ?

16:54:40 <nmihindu> More info here -> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/e6d8108df386/Test%20Cases/LDP%20Test%20Cases.html#test-suite-coverage

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: More info here -> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/e6d8108df386/Test%20Cases/LDP%20Test%20Cases.html#test-suite-coverage

16:54:56 <nmihindu> yes, they are listed in the above section.

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: yes, they are listed in the above section.

16:59:19 <Zakim> -BartvanLeeuwen

Zakim IRC Bot: -BartvanLeeuwen

16:59:38 <nmihindu> Arnaud, yes. It is exactly as SteveS explained. Exector component is what is the Java (or Javascript part). Whether it can directly/automatically use this RDF data from the Test Suite depends on how we implement it, I guess.

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Arnaud, yes. It is exactly as SteveS explained. Exector component is what is the Java (or Javascript part). Whether it can directly/automatically use this RDF data from the Test Suite depends on how we implement it, I guess.

17:04:24 <nmihindu> Arnaud, the main idea to use the RDFa and have RDF data directly the in document was to keep the data always sync with the document, IIRC.

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Arnaud, the main idea to use the RDFa and have RDF data directly the in document was to keep the data always sync with the document, IIRC.

17:07:32 <roger> The main problem is that there is a code generator which currently is missing …

The main problem is that there is a code generator which currently is missing …

17:08:38 <roger> Arnaud: we should switch gear and adopt a more pragmatic approach

Arnaud Le Hors: we should switch gear and adopt a more pragmatic approach

17:08:56 <roger> pragmatic and Programmatic :)

pragmatic and Programmatic :)

17:11:48 <roger> there could still be a translation - from javadoc annotations on to some HTML - but, this isn't on the critiical path.

there could still be a translation - from javadoc annotations on to some HTML - but, this isn't on the critiical path.

17:13:18 <roger> [some discussion about mecurial vs. github]

[some discussion about mecurial vs. github]

17:14:16 <nmihindu> Arnaud, so this executor can be used by implementations done in other languages by feeding it with the correct URLs and test data ?

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Arnaud, so this executor can be used by implementations done in other languages by feeding it with the correct URLs and test data ?

17:15:13 <sandro> betehess: follow the W3C (test the web forward) lead on how to get the license right

Alexandre Bertails: follow the W3C (test the web forward) lead on how to get the license right [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

17:17:41 <roger> Arnaud: Summary of decisions

Arnaud Le Hors: Summary of decisions

17:17:47 <roger> 1. Java for test suite

1. Java for test suite

17:18:28 <roger> 2. Use REST assured as starting point

2. Use REST assured as starting point

17:18:51 <roger> 3. Junit vs. TestNG … (?)

3. Junit vs. TestNG … (?)

17:20:24 <roger> 4. One time translation of Raul test doc into executable code, and Arnaud regrets that Raul is present for this meeting.

4. One time translation of Raul test doc into executable code, and Arnaud regrets that Raul is not present for this meeting.

17:20:39 <roger> s/is present/is not present
17:20:52 <roger> s/is present/is not present/
17:20:57 <roger> 4. use github

5. use github

17:21:10 <roger> s/4./5./
17:21:23 <sandro> PROPOSED: In order to have executable tests in the next few weeks, LDP tests will be submitted on github in Java, as TestNG + REST-assured tests, with metadata that can be extracted to form a decent human-readable summary of the tests.

PROPOSED: In order to have executable tests in the next few weeks, LDP tests will be submitted on github in Java, as TestNG + REST-assured tests, with metadata that can be extracted to form a decent human-readable summary of the tests.

17:22:14 <nmihindu> Sandro, is it this one ? http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Legal/2008/04-testsuite-license.html

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Sandro, is it this one ? http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Legal/2008/04-testsuite-license.html

17:22:57 <codyburleson> Why TestNG versus JUnit?

Cody Burleson: Why TestNG versus JUnit?

17:23:20 <betehess> https://github.com/w3c/testtwf-website/blob/gh-pages/CONTRIBUTING.md

Alexandre Bertails: https://github.com/w3c/testtwf-website/blob/gh-pages/CONTRIBUTING.md

17:23:27 <sandro> The overview of test suite licenses: http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Legal/2008/04-testsuite-copyright.html

Sandro Hawke: The overview of test suite licenses: http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Legal/2008/04-testsuite-copyright.html

17:23:35 <roger> because all the cool kids are using testng

because all the cool kids are using testng

17:23:35 <sandro> So, yes, nmihindu

Sandro Hawke: So, yes, nmihindu

17:24:14 <betehess> https://github.com/blog/1184-contributing-guidelines

Alexandre Bertails: https://github.com/blog/1184-contributing-guidelines

17:24:56 <betehess> q+ to explain how the contribution mechanism works

Alexandre Bertails: q+ to explain how the contribution mechanism works

17:25:17 <codyburleson> I am just thinking that Eclipse and Eclipse-based IDEs are well integrated with JUnit and that's the most popular IDE amongst Java developers. Actually, to be honest - is because I use JUnit and have no familiarity with TestNG. So… but… I can learn something new.  :-(

Cody Burleson: I am just thinking that Eclipse and Eclipse-based IDEs are well integrated with JUnit and that's the most popular IDE amongst Java developers. Actually, to be honest - is because I use JUnit and have no familiarity with TestNG. So… but… I can learn something new. :-(

17:25:24 <roger> SteveS: TestNG is more flexible in defining grouping of tests, etc

Steve Speicher: TestNG is more flexible in defining grouping of tests, etc

17:25:37 <nmihindu> TestNG vs JUnit -> http://www.mkyong.com/unittest/junit-4-vs-testng-comparison/

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: TestNG vs JUnit -> http://www.mkyong.com/unittest/junit-4-vs-testng-comparison/

17:25:59 <SteveS> codyburleson, TestNG has a good plugin for Eclipse…leverages JUnit framework

Steve Speicher: codyburleson, TestNG has a good plugin for Eclipse…leverages JUnit framework

17:26:30 <codyburleson> SteveS, thanks. We'll look into it.

Cody Burleson: SteveS, thanks. We'll look into it.

17:27:00 <sandro> PROPOSED: In order to have executable tests in the next few weeks, LDP tests will be submitted on github in Java, as TestNG (or JUnit) + REST-assured tests, with metadata that can be extracted to form a decent human-readable summary of the tests.

PROPOSED: In order to have executable tests in the next few weeks, LDP tests will be submitted on github in Java, as TestNG (or JUnit) + REST-assured tests, with metadata that can be extracted to form a decent human-readable summary of the tests.

17:27:13 <codyburleson> +1

Cody Burleson: +1

17:27:18 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

17:27:19 <betehess> +1

Alexandre Bertails: +1

17:27:23 <JohnArwe> +1

John Arwe: +1

17:27:24 <SteveS> +1

Steve Speicher: +1

17:27:25 <TallTed> +0

Ted Thibodeau: +0

17:27:39 <deiu> +1

Andrei Sambra: +1

17:27:41 <roger> +0

+0

17:28:01 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: In order to have executable tests in the next few weeks, LDP tests will be submitted on github in Java, as TestNG (or JUnit) + REST-assured tests, with metadata that can be extracted to form a decent human-readable summary of the tests.

RESOLVED: In order to have executable tests in the next few weeks, LDP tests will be submitted on github in Java, as TestNG (or JUnit) + REST-assured tests, with metadata that can be extracted to form a decent human-readable summary of the tests.

17:30:04 <Arnaud> q?

Arnaud Le Hors: q?

17:30:06 <sandro> overengineering == too much fun

Sandro Hawke: overengineering == too much fun

17:30:10 <Arnaud> ack betehess

Arnaud Le Hors: ack betehess

17:30:13 <Zakim> betehess, you wanted to explain how the contribution mechanism works

Zakim IRC Bot: betehess, you wanted to explain how the contribution mechanism works

17:30:20 <betehess> https://github.com/blog/1184-contributing-guidelines

Alexandre Bertails: https://github.com/blog/1184-contributing-guidelines

17:30:30 <betehess> https://github.com/w3c/testtwf-website/blob/gh-pages/CONTRIBUTING.md

Alexandre Bertails: https://github.com/w3c/testtwf-website/blob/gh-pages/CONTRIBUTING.md

17:31:32 <Zakim> +??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1

17:31:35 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ??p1 is me

Bart van Leeuwen: Zakim, ??p1 is me

17:31:37 <Zakim> +BartvanLeeuwen; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +BartvanLeeuwen; got it

17:33:16 <JohnArwe> on the junit vs testng question, some interested (skimmed them, so somewhat vetted) search results http://kaczanowscy.pl/tomek/sites/default/files/testng_vs_junit.txt.slidy_.html#%2820%29 and http://www.mkyong.com/unittest/junit-4-vs-testng-comparison/ (2 tables at top summarize well)

John Arwe: on the junit vs testng question, some interested (skimmed them, so somewhat vetted) search results http://kaczanowscy.pl/tomek/sites/default/files/testng_vs_junit.txt.slidy_.html#%2820%29 and http://www.mkyong.com/unittest/junit-4-vs-testng-comparison/ (2 tables at top summarize well)

17:34:28 <JohnArwe> mics were moved around, roger fixing

John Arwe: mics were moved around, roger fixing

17:34:40 <BartvanLeeuwen> much better !

Bart van Leeuwen: much better !

17:35:32 <roger> [discussion about how to bootstrap the environment for the tests to run.]

[discussion about how to bootstrap the environment for the tests to run.]

17:40:40 <sandro> ldp-checker

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Sandro Hawke: ldp-checker

17:40:40 <sandro> ldp-tests

Sandro Hawke: ldp-tests

17:40:40 <sandro> ldp-test

Sandro Hawke: ldp-test

17:40:40 <sandro> ldp-testsuite

Sandro Hawke: ldp-testsuite

17:41:32 <SteveS> +1 ldp-testsuite

Steve Speicher: +1 ldp-testsuite

17:41:42 <nmihindu> Arnaud, IIRC bootstrapping the stuff needed for tests (to get the server to a state that a test suite can run on it) and checking whether all the preconditions are satisfied, required access to more internals of the server something like a back door. Probably Raul has more information.

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Arnaud, IIRC bootstrapping the stuff needed for tests (to get the server to a state that a test suite can run on it) and checking whether all the preconditions are satisfied, required access to more internals of the server something like a back door. Probably Raul has more information.

17:41:46 <betehess> +1 ldp-testsuite

Alexandre Bertails: +1 ldp-testsuite

17:42:22 <sandro> https://github.com/w3c/ldp-testsuite

Sandro Hawke: https://github.com/w3c/ldp-testsuite

17:42:54 <roger> … one answer to the bootstrap question is that the server would need to provide a BasicContainer as starting point.

… one answer to the bootstrap question is that the server would need to provide a BasicContainer as starting point.

17:43:41 <SteveS> sandro, my github id sspeiche

Steve Speicher: sandro, my github id sspeiche

17:46:19 <codyburleson> sandro, my github id codyburleson

Cody Burleson: sandro, my github id codyburleson

17:46:35 <Arnaud> mine is lehors

Arnaud Le Hors: mine is lehors

17:46:53 <nmihindu> mine is nandana

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: mine is nandana

17:50:41 <sandro> okay, y'all now have write access to https://github.com/w3c/ldp-testsuite

Sandro Hawke: okay, y'all now have write access to https://github.com/w3c/ldp-testsuite

17:51:16 <roger> final question about testsuite : who can we expect contributions from ? and how will manage it to prevent overlapping work ?

final question about testsuite : who can we expect contributions from ? and how will manage it to prevent overlapping work ?

17:53:50 <roger> Arnaud hopes that Sergio will want to be the manager of the test suite

Arnaud hopes that Sergio will want to be the manager of the test suite

17:54:04 <roger> … and he will seed the work with his existing tests

… and he will seed the work with his existing tests

17:54:06 <betehess> also, have we captured the requirement for the tests to generate EARL as an output?

Alexandre Bertails: also, have we captured the requirement for the tests to generate EARL as an output?

17:54:40 <roger> we have now ! thanks.

we have now ! thanks.

17:55:56 <betehess> Arnaud: yes, we have already decided that EARL will be the default output

Arnaud Le Hors: yes, we have already decided that EARL will be the default output [ Scribe Assist by Alexandre Bertails ]

17:55:58 <nmihindu> Arnaud, in Raul's tests some tests extend the others because for example, LDP-BC is also an LDPC and an LDPR so it should pass the assertions of LDPR and LDPC. Probably programatically this hierarchical tests can be done much easier.

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Arnaud, in Raul's tests some tests extend the others because for example, LDP-BC is also an LDPC and an LDPR so it should pass the assertions of LDPR and LDPC. Probably programatically this hierarchical tests can be done much easier.

17:59:35 <roger> betehess: It would be nice to provide a .jar file, but, where should be put it ?

Alexandre Bertails: It would be nice to provide a .jar file, but, where should be put it ?

18:04:24 <TallTed> http://matplotlib.org/_sources/users/installing.txt -- "We provide prebuilt binaries for OS X and Windows on the matplotlib `download <https://github.com/matplotlib/matplotlib/downloads/>`_ page"

Ted Thibodeau: http://matplotlib.org/_sources/users/installing.txt -- "We provide prebuilt binaries for OS X and Windows on the matplotlib `download <https://github.com/matplotlib/matplotlib/downloads/>`_ page"

<sandro> https://github.com/blog/1547-release-your-software

Sandro Hawke: https://github.com/blog/1547-release-your-software

18:06:21 <roger> Topic: LDPNext

5. LDPNext

Summary: What comes next? Charter, timeline, face to face meetings (Meeting at TPAC?) The group briefly discussed each of the items on the "wishlist" LDP-Next wiki page

<sandro> Summary:  What comes next?  Charter, timeline, face to face meetings (Meeting at TPAC?)  The group briefly discussed each of the items on the "wishlist" LDP-Next wiki page
<sandro> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/index.php?title=LDPNext&oldid=3511 (The wishlist at the time of this meeting)

Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/index.php?title=LDPNext&oldid=3511 (The wishlist at the time of this meeting)

18:08:04 <roger> Arnaud: we officially expire at the end of May

Arnaud Le Hors: we officially expire at the end of May

18:08:23 <roger> how much extension do we need ?

how much extension do we need ?

18:09:09 <roger> then beyond the extension, do we want to re-charter a new WG ?

then beyond the extension, do we want to re-charter a new WG ?

18:09:21 <roger> or. do we want to wait a bit first .. ?

or. do we want to wait a bit first .. ?

18:10:36 <roger> Sandro: does LDP.classic and LDP.next overlap or should they run sequentially ?

Sandro Hawke: does LDP.classic and LDP.next overlap or should they run sequentially ?

18:12:06 <roger> Arnaud: where does PATCH fit ? LDP.1 or LDP.2 ?

Arnaud Le Hors: where does PATCH fit ? LDP.1 or LDP.2 ?

18:13:11 <roger> Sandro: No guarantee that would we get a 2nd extension ..

Sandro Hawke: No guarantee that would we get a 2nd extension ..

18:14:47 <roger> Ashok: Suggests we request a 1 yr extension.

Ashok Malhotra: Suggests we request a 1 yr extension.

18:16:49 <roger> Arnaud: Current PR schedule (possibly) excludes PAGING and PATCH.

Arnaud Le Hors: Current PR schedule (possibly) excludes PAGING and PATCH.

18:17:20 <roger> Ashok wants the extension to cover the PAGING work

Ashok wants the extension to cover the PAGING work

18:17:39 <sandro> maybe....    CR in May, PR in July, Rec in August

Sandro Hawke: maybe.... CR in May, PR in July, Rec in August

18:17:48 <sandro> paging?

Sandro Hawke: paging?

18:19:34 <roger> Arnaud: we shouldn't be too ambitious with Paging, and limit the scope of the paging work, so we can finish in a reasonable time.

Arnaud Le Hors: we shouldn't be too ambitious with Paging, and limit the scope of the paging work, so we can finish in a reasonable time.

18:20:28 <roger> Sandro: We could aim to close all the issues related to PAging by tomorrow …

Sandro Hawke: We could aim to close all the issues related to PAging by tomorrow …

18:21:20 <roger> 6 months for Core + Paging.

6 months for Core + Paging.

18:21:30 <roger> but, what about with PATCH too ?

but, what about with PATCH too ?

18:21:51 <roger> PATCH is hard to predict …

PATCH is hard to predict …

18:22:13 <Zakim> -nmihindu

Zakim IRC Bot: -nmihindu

18:24:19 <roger> [extension to current LDP discussion finished. now we move on to wishlist discussion]

[extension to current LDP discussion finished. now we move on to wishlist discussion]

18:24:45 <roger> Arnaud: if we charter a new WG, what would be the new deliverable ?

Arnaud Le Hors: if we charter a new WG, what would be the new deliverable ?

<sandro> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/index.php?title=LDPNext&oldid=3511 (The wishlist at the time of this meeting)

Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/index.php?title=LDPNext&oldid=3511 (The wishlist at the time of this meeting)

18:29:16 <roger> Sandro suggests talk through the current wishlist, and take some strawpolls how popular the items are ..

Sandro suggests talk through the current wishlist, and take some strawpolls how popular the items are ..

18:33:11 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+

Bart van Leeuwen: q+

18:34:52 <Arnaud> ack bart

Arnaud Le Hors: ack bart

18:38:31 <roger> Bart found community groups frustrating because some of the W3C communications tools were not available

Bart found community groups frustrating because some of the W3C communications tools were not available

18:39:01 <roger> consensus emerging that Community Groups are not the way forward for us

consensus emerging that Community Groups are not the way forward for us

18:41:33 <codyburleson> Better to create a quick survey on Survey Monkey

Cody Burleson: Better to create a quick survey on Survey Monkey

18:41:38 <codyburleson> Nobody would have to talley

Cody Burleson: Nobody would have to talley

18:42:09 <sandro> subtopic: Patch

5.1. Patch

18:42:32 <deiu> +1

Andrei Sambra: +1

18:42:33 <JohnArwe> +1

John Arwe: +1

18:42:34 <codyburleson> +1

Cody Burleson: +1

18:42:36 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

18:42:37 <SteveS> +1

Steve Speicher: +1

18:42:38 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1

Bart van Leeuwen: +1

18:42:41 <betehess> +1

Alexandre Bertails: +1

18:42:43 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

18:42:43 <roger> roger: +0.5

Roger Menday: +0.5

18:42:54 <Ashok> 1

Ashok Malhotra: 1

18:43:03 <roger> subtopic: Embedded representations

5.2. Embedded representations

18:43:09 <roger> roger: +1

Roger Menday: +1

18:43:16 <JohnArwe> +1

John Arwe: +1

18:43:18 <deiu> +1

Andrei Sambra: +1

18:43:20 <Ashok> 1

Ashok Malhotra: 1

18:43:21 <SteveS> +1

Steve Speicher: +1

18:43:21 <betehess> +1

Alexandre Bertails: +1

18:43:22 <codyburleson> +0

Cody Burleson: +0

18:43:23 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

18:43:27 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

18:43:31 <roger> subtopic: Filtering collections

5.3. Filtering collections

18:43:33 <roger> roger: +1

Roger Menday: +1

18:43:38 <betehess> +1

Alexandre Bertails: +1

18:43:38 <deiu> +1

Andrei Sambra: +1

18:43:39 <SteveS> +1

Steve Speicher: +1

18:43:41 <sandro> +0.5

Sandro Hawke: +0.5

18:43:42 <JohnArwe> +1

John Arwe: +1

18:43:46 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1

Bart van Leeuwen: +1

18:43:46 <TallTed> +0.5

Ted Thibodeau: +0.5

18:43:50 <codyburleson> +0

Cody Burleson: +0

18:43:54 <Ashok> 1

Ashok Malhotra: 1

18:44:29 <roger> subtopic: Richer Containers

5.4. Richer Containers

18:44:40 <roger> roger: -0.8

Roger Menday: -0.8

18:44:40 <betehess> +1 (I think it's an easy one)

Alexandre Bertails: +1 (I think it's an easy one)

18:44:40 <sandro> this is autodelete?

Sandro Hawke: this is autodelete?

18:44:45 <deiu> +1

Andrei Sambra: +1

18:44:45 <JohnArwe> +0

John Arwe: +0

18:44:50 <SteveS> -0.98

Steve Speicher: -0.98

18:45:19 <sandro> -1 (I think autodelete is a bad model)

Sandro Hawke: -1 (I think autodelete is a bad model)

18:45:29 <TallTed> +1 Recursive delete with flag ...

Ted Thibodeau: +1 Recursive delete with flag ...

18:45:32 <BartvanLeeuwen> +0

Bart van Leeuwen: +0

18:45:35 <codyburleson> +0

Cody Burleson: +0

18:45:54 <Ashok> 1

Ashok Malhotra: 1

18:45:59 <roger> subtopic: Globbing or inlining (with filtering)

5.5. Globbing or inlining (with filtering)

18:46:30 <TallTed> closely tied to #2...

Ted Thibodeau: closely tied to #2...

18:46:43 <roger> related to 2. etc

related to 2. etc

18:46:47 <SteveS> +1 (as before)

Steve Speicher: +1 (as before)

18:46:55 <sandro> (in other bits)

Sandro Hawke: (in other bits)

18:47:01 <roger> subtopic: Application APIs

5.6. Application APIs

18:47:14 <sandro> ?

Sandro Hawke: ?

18:47:39 <sandro> +1 the current creation model is terrible

Sandro Hawke: +1 the current creation model is terrible

18:47:41 <codyburleson> +0

Cody Burleson: +0

18:48:01 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

18:48:02 <roger> subtopic: Snapshots

5.7. Snapshots

18:48:04 <betehess> +0

Alexandre Bertails: +0

18:48:05 <deiu> -0.9

Andrei Sambra: -0.9

18:48:10 <sandro> +0.75

Sandro Hawke: +0.75

18:48:10 <Ashok> 1

Ashok Malhotra: 1

18:48:12 <SteveS> +0

Steve Speicher: +0

18:48:12 <TallTed> +0.5

Ted Thibodeau: +0.5

18:48:14 <JohnArwe> +0

John Arwe: +0

18:48:17 <BartvanLeeuwen> +0

Bart van Leeuwen: +0

18:48:18 <codyburleson> +0

Cody Burleson: +0

18:48:18 <roger> 0

0

18:48:47 <roger> subtopic: Client-initiated paging

5.8. Client-initiated paging

18:48:58 <betehess> -1

Alexandre Bertails: -1

18:49:10 <TallTed> +0.5

Ted Thibodeau: +0.5

18:49:16 <roger> roger: +0

Roger Menday: +0

18:49:19 <deiu> 0

Andrei Sambra: 0

18:49:23 <SteveS> +0.5

Steve Speicher: +0.5

18:49:28 <codyburleson> +0.5

Cody Burleson: +0.5

18:49:53 <JohnArwe> +0.5

John Arwe: +0.5

18:49:55 <sandro> +0.25

Sandro Hawke: +0.25

18:50:02 <Ashok> 0

Ashok Malhotra: 0

18:50:19 <roger> subtopic: Client-controlled page sizes

5.9. Client-controlled page sizes

18:50:26 <SteveS> +0

Steve Speicher: +0

18:50:34 <codyburleson> +0.5

Cody Burleson: +0.5

18:50:35 <deiu> 0

Andrei Sambra: 0

18:50:36 <TallTed> +0.5

Ted Thibodeau: +0.5

18:50:36 <Ashok> 1

Ashok Malhotra: 1

18:50:36 <roger> roger: +0

Roger Menday: +0

18:50:37 <betehess> -0.5

Alexandre Bertails: -0.5

18:50:37 <sandro> +0.25

Sandro Hawke: +0.25

18:50:45 <JohnArwe> +0.5

John Arwe: +0.5

18:51:01 <roger> subtopic: Client-controlled page sorting

5.10. Client-controlled page sorting

18:51:13 <betehess> -1 I don't like the approach

Alexandre Bertails: -1 I don't like the approach

18:51:17 <SteveS> +0.5

Steve Speicher: +0.5

18:51:20 <TallTed> +0.5

Ted Thibodeau: +0.5

18:51:25 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

18:51:28 <deiu> +1

Andrei Sambra: +1

18:51:29 <JohnArwe> =0.5

John Arwe: =0.5

18:51:29 <Ashok> 1

Ashok Malhotra: 1

18:51:35 <roger> roger: +0

Roger Menday: +0

18:51:59 <roger> subtopic: Client-controlled container filtering

5.11. Client-controlled container filtering

18:52:38 <deiu> +1

Andrei Sambra: +1

18:52:39 <TallTed> +0.5

Ted Thibodeau: +0.5

18:52:40 <JohnArwe> +1

John Arwe: +1

18:52:50 <codyburleson> +1

Cody Burleson: +1

18:52:53 <SteveS> +0.5

Steve Speicher: +0.5

18:52:59 <betehess> +1

Alexandre Bertails: +1

18:53:18 <roger> roger: +1

Roger Menday: +1

18:53:23 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

18:53:36 <roger> subtopic: Container Inclusion

5.12. Container Inclusion

18:54:34 <TallTed> +0.5

Ted Thibodeau: +0.5

18:54:35 <JohnArwe> -0.5

John Arwe: -0.5

18:54:48 <SteveS> 0

Steve Speicher: 0

18:54:56 <Ashok> 0

Ashok Malhotra: 0

18:55:18 <betehess> +0

Alexandre Bertails: +0

18:55:29 <deiu> +0.5

Andrei Sambra: +0.5

18:55:30 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

18:55:40 <roger> roger: +0.5

Roger Menday: +0.5

18:55:54 <roger> subtopic: Connection to SPARQL datasets

5.13. Connection to SPARQL datasets

18:55:54 <codyburleson> +0

Cody Burleson: +0

18:55:58 <betehess> +1

Alexandre Bertails: +1

18:56:15 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1

Bart van Leeuwen: +1

18:56:21 <SteveS> +0.5

Steve Speicher: +0.5

18:56:24 <JohnArwe> +0.5

John Arwe: +0.5

18:56:26 <Ashok> 0

Ashok Malhotra: 0

18:56:35 <codyburleson> +0

Cody Burleson: +0

18:56:50 <roger> roger: +0.5

Roger Menday: +0.5

18:57:06 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

18:57:08 <TallTed> +0.5

Ted Thibodeau: +0.5

18:57:08 <deiu> 0

Andrei Sambra: 0

18:57:14 <roger> subtopic: Guidance for PUT

5.14. Guidance for PUT

18:57:38 <JohnArwe> +0

John Arwe: +0

18:57:42 <SteveS> 0

Steve Speicher: 0

18:57:46 <roger> 0

0

18:57:51 <codyburleson> 0

Cody Burleson: 0

18:57:53 <sandro> this is PUT FOR CREATE

Sandro Hawke: this is PUT FOR CREATE

18:57:56 <TallTed> +0.5